Report of the Committee Appointed to Investigate the Railroad Riots in July, 1877 Read in the Senate and House of Representatives May 23, 1878 (part 7 of 7)
A. I don't know what it is; but the uniform that most of them had on was the same uniform I noticed on the police officers after we returned to the city.
Q. When did you return to the city?
A. I think on the 28th of July.
Q. And the uniform was the same that you saw those men wearing?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any of the policemen on your return to the city, who were in that crowd?
A. I couldn't distinguish any of them. We were marching rather rapidly, and I was, in fact, too far off--probably fifty or one hundred feet. I couldn't recognize them again.
Q. How many shots were fired from that crowd?
A. I cannot tell that--quite a number, I should judge--half a dozen, or a dozen, or more.
Q. Did they wait until your men had passed, before they fired?
A. Yes.
Q. And they fired into your rear?
A. Yes.
Q. What effect did the firing have?
A. I cannot say that it had any. I know none were killed about there, or I don't think there were any. There may have been some wounded--scratches.
Q. Was the firing returned by your men?
A. No; it was not.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see that man with the linen duster following the command, with a musket?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see him shoot?
A. Yes; I remember that fellow distinctly. He followed us quite a distance. I remember another fellow particularly--a man with a crutch. As we went along he stood on the sidewalk, and I saw what I took to be a navy revolver in his hand as we passed, and after we passed he deliberately fired and run down a side street, and I could go right to the locality and pick that fellow out; I took a good look at him; I was on the right, near the gutter, and close to him as we passed him. They said afterwards that this fellow in the duster was the man that had been pegging away at us all night with a rifle that had a bullet that exploded when it struck. He kept it up all night while we were in the round-house. They said afterwards that he had lost a brother, and he wanted to be revenged. I am not positive, but I think he was killed--shot.
Q. Did you see any firing from houses?
A. Yes; from second-story windows.
Q. How long after you had left the round-house?
A. Some distance down--somewhere in the neighborhood of this police station. The firing I saw from the windows was on the left-hand side going up this street.
Q. Going eastward?
A. I don't know the location of Pittsburgh.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Towards the arsenal?
A. Yes; on the left hand side I noticed firing from the windows, and the police station was on the right hand.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You say this man was killed?
A. I heard he was.
* * * * *
Thompson Lennig, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence?
A. 1300 Walnut street.
Q. Were you with General Brinton at Pittsburgh, in July last?
A. I was in the division--yes.
Q. What was your rank?
A. I was a private at that time.
Q. In which regiment?
A. In the artillery corps, Washington Grays.
Q. State what your position was in the line in moving out Penn street in the morning?
A. I was helping to drag the first one of the Gatling guns.
Q. State whether there was any firing from houses or from persons along the street?
A. There was no firing, as far as I remember, until we had gone five or six squares, and I thought when there was no firing, that we were going to get out of the town without any trouble at all. It was not until shortly after we had passed the police station on our right, that the firing began. From that time there was firing until we reached the arsenal.
Q. There was not much until you reached the police station?
A. No. There was considerable firing, which might amount to skirmish firing in real service.
Q. Were there any policemen in the station when you passed?
A. Yes. I don't know how many. I saw eight or ten men turn up in line on the curb, and I think there may have been from ten to twenty-five scattered around. As I say, I saw eight or ten turn up in line on the curb as we passed.
Q. Was there any firing by the police or the troops as you passed?
A. That I don't know. I didn't say it; but I should like to say this: that there was firing, and as we passed by the station, I noticed one policeman particularly whose face was impressed upon me. And I saw him the following Sunday--the week following--the 29th of July, when I was wandering through the ruins, with a corporal of the Washington Grays. I saw this same man, and I accosted him and said, that I had seen him in front of the police station last Sunday, and he said he had been there. I then said that I heard it stated among our men that you fired upon us, and he said, I didn't fire, but others did, and he even went so far as to say that the lieutenant had ordered them to fire. Corporal Rider, who was with me at the time, heard the whole conversation, and can corroborate everything I have stated.
Q. What is his name?
A. Penn Rider, one of the assistant clerks in common pleas, No. 2.
Q. He stated that he had been ordered to fire?
A. He said that they were ordered by the lieutenant to fire. I saw this man's face.
Q. Just give the language of the policeman as near as you can?
A. I was walking over the ruins and I caught his face. It struck me again, and I said to myself, that is the man I saw last Sunday, and I accosted him, and said, "You were standing in front of the police station last Sunday." He said, "I was." I said, "I have heard from our men that you fired on us as we passed," and he said, "I didn't fire, but others did, and the lieutenant ordered us to do it." That was the whole conversation. I passed along, and didn't see anything more of him.
Q. Did you ask him who the lieutenant of the police was?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever found it out since?
A. I have made no inquiry. After I came back, I made affidavit to these facts, at the request of Colonel Pettit, and I thought it was no longer any matter of mine. It was in their hands.
Q. Did you see that policeman any time after that--have you seen him since?
A. No; I have not been in Pittsburgh since. I happened to be off duty at the time.
Q. Do you think you would recognize that policeman?
A. I should know him if I saw him five years hence.
Q. Was he in uniform when you met him or saw him?
A. Both times.
* * * * *
John W. Ryan, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence and what position you held in the National Guard in July last?
A. I live at No. 102 North Fortieth street, and had command of the independent company State Fencibles, attached to the Second brigade, First division.
Q. You accompanied General Brinton to Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. You were at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you stationed after you went to Pittsburgh?
A. I was on the extreme left of the division, the portion of troops closest to Union depot. My company was formed--the major portion of it facing Union depot, with their backs towards Twenty-eighth street, and the smaller portion of it was on front, facing towards Penn street.
Q. What was your duty there?
A. To keep the people out.
Q. And guard the track?
A. To keep the people out, was the instruction I received.
Q. Well?
A. We did so.
Q. Did you have any trouble in doing that?
A. None special. After the firing began, some people came down the hill--came down, and once or twice my men were on the point of firing at them, because they would not go back; but I held the men in as long as possible. It seemed to be more a want of understanding what we wanted them to do. After they found out what we wanted them to do, they did it.
Q. Was there any firing by your company?
A. We didn't fire a shot.
Q. How many men had you in your company?
A. I brought home seventy-four. I had about fifty at that time.
Q. Were you in the round-house during the night?
A. Once in a while I would go over there. My position was not directly in the round-house. I was in the paint shop, I think it is called, or the machine shop, or something of the kind.
Q. Adjoining the round-house?
A. Yes; and out in the board-yard. They sent us out there until we got ready to move out of the position.
Q. Was any attack made upon you in the shops during the night?
A. No; not directly.
Q. State what the discipline of the troops was--taking the whole command of General Brinton during the night?
A. There was no complaint--it was as good as might be expected.
Q. Was there any insubordination or refusal to obey orders that came under your observation?
A. Yes; some.
Q. Relate it?
A. When the companies of the Sixth regiment were formed into line, the company next to mine--I sent one of my sergeants to find out the matter, and he came back and told me that they proposed to lay down their arms and go home, and I said I would like to see them try it, and I intend to shoot them if they attempt to do it.
Q. Did you see them afterwards or talk to them about it afterwards?
A. I intended to hunt the officers up; but while making up my mind to proceed in the matter, orders came to get ready to move, and that broke the little arrangement up.
Q. Did they move when the order came--did they obey the command?
A. Yes; so far as I could see, they did. They behaved as well as the rest did.
Q. They didn't throw down their arms?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you say to them after you heard it, that you would shoot them?
A. I told them I wouldn't let them out. I told the commander that. My company was put on guard as soon as we got into that portion of the grounds.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What attracted your attention was something unusual in that particular command?
A. Yes; they were forming, and I had not received any orders to do so, and was anxious to know what they were forming for.
Q. How many were reported as going to throw down their arms?
A. One company.
Q. How many men were in that company?
A. Probably thirty.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What was the reason they gave for doing this, if they gave any?
A. They didn't seem to give any. It was sort of dissatisfaction.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you see the officer of the company--the captain?
A. I saw an officer in front of them, and afterwards learned he was a lieutenant.
Q. You had no talk with him?
A. No.
Q. What was the conduct of the balance of the men in the division, so far as you could judge?
A. In the round-house?
Q. Yes.
A. First rate.
Q. It was that of soldiers?
A. Yes; and very patient ones, under the circumstances, I thought.
Q. Were you in the army during the late war?
A. Yes.
Q. How long were you out?
A. Over four years.
Q. What proportion of your company has seen service?
A. I don't know exactly now--we did represent one hundred and fifty-one years at one time in the company.
Q. Of actual service?
A. Yes; all the officers and non-commissioned officers, with one exception, were veterans.
Q. How many men were there in the company, when they represented one hundred and fifty-one years?
A. Sixty-seven men. Late on Saturday afternoon, I sent to the brigade commander, and asked permission to come and see him, and I waited, and asked if I could not have permission to drive the people away from the gate, that they were blackguarding us in the most scandalous manner.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What gate?
A. Leading out on the street. Men, women, and half-grown boys. It was the most outrageous language I ever heard in my life. When we would go up, and attempt to drive them away, they would just stand and spit at us, and call us all sorts of names. But my men stood it, and walked up and down, and paid no attention to them. But they finally got brandishing revolvers, and the excitement had become intense, when one of my corporals says to me: "I don't think we can stand it any longer, unless you give us permission to kill some of those people out there." and I said if I get permission, I will give it to you very quick. So I asked General Loud, if he would give permission, and he said: "I have no authority," and I asked if I might go and see General Brinton. I did so, and asked the question, and was told that permission could not be given. I said who was in command, and was told General Pearson. I said I know the gentleman, and will you give me permission to go and see him. I stated the position to him, and stated it was impossible to hold out any longer at the gate, and he said: "you must not agitate them. I don't want you to excite them poor people." They were too close to his heart. I turned away perfectly disgusted.
Q. You held the position you were commanded to hold?
A. Yes; after that General Loud thought it would be a little more secure to put some iron in front of the gate, which we did. I would have been glad to have given a little lead instead. They blackguarded us so that I was anxious to square matters with them.
Q. You could have cleared the tracks at that time?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear any women using obscene language to the troops?
A. They were a little worse than the men. The language was terrible. One young fellow about twenty years of age climbed on to the stone post of the gate, and blackguarded us for the longest time. I have got a very large corporal, and he made a deliberate set at that man. The corporal said, can't I put him off, and I said, yes, he said he makes use of language more than I ever took of any one. I said knock him off, if he don't get off, or give him a jab with a bayonet; but he slipped off.
Q. What company of the Sixth regiment was it that wanted to lay down their arms?
A. I cannot say, but I can furnish the testimony of that fact from the members of my company, who reported the matter to me. I considered it of such little importance at the time that I really didn't pay much attention to it.
Q. They didn't lay down their arms, and obeyed orders afterwards?
A. No; they didn't lay down their arms, and I think that, notwithstanding their disposition to do an unmilitary act, if they had been called into line and directed to do their duty as soldiers at that time, they would have done so cheerfully.
Q. Did they remain with your command during the rest of your military movements?
A. Yes.
Q. And went to Scranton with you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they observe their duty as soldiers after that?
A. As far as I saw, entirely so.
Q. You say you didn't ascertain their reasons for wanting to lay down their arms?
A. Not especially so. It was a sort of a growl they got into.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they not a little disgusted, like yourself?
A. I think they would have stood it a little better if they had had orders to defend themselves.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How many companies are there in this Sixth regiment?
A. I don't know, but I think they are eight--I don't know exactly.
Q. How many men about in the regiment?
A. I should judge they had about one hundred and fifty men.
Q. How many men in a company?
A. About thirty men--twenty-five or thirty.
Q. Was it a larger company than the rest of them?
A. I don't believe there were over twenty or twenty-five men that appeared in line when my attention was called to them. My company lay across the entrance of the paint-shop at this time, and this company was on the right. I said to one of the sergeants what is that company forming for, and he said I don't know, and I said go and see, and he came back and said they proposed to quit, and lay down their arms and go home.
Q. You didn't hear them say it yourself?
A. No; I saw the company in line. I told the sergeant to see what they were in line for, and he came back and reported that they proposed to lay down their arms and go home. I said I would like to see them try it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What time in the night was that?
A. It was in the morning--sometime before we started away.
Q. After daylight?
A. Yes.
Q. As late as seven o'clock?
A. I cannot tell you that, because I don't remember the time we left the round-house. It was a short time before we left. I know that the orders we got to get ready to move broke the little arrangement up for them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did they lay down their arms any of them?
A. No; they had their arms in their hands. I didn't think it amounted to anything at all.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is the name of the sergeant that brought you the information?
A. George Simpson.
Q. Do you know where he is now?
A. I think I can find him in a short time. I think he is about the armory of the State Fencibles.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You were with the balance of the troops as they retired out Penn street?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any firing from citizens or policemen on your troops?
A. I saw some firing--considerable.
Q. By whom?
A. It was very hard to tell. I saw parties firing out of a street car. I saw a man fire the shot that I thought killed those two men in the Sixth regiment. It was about the time that the street car came along. I heard General Loud's testimony in reference to the car matter, and I thought at the time, and do yet, that he is mistaken about it. I think yet it was a single man that killed those two men and a single bullet.
Q. One shot?
A. Yes; I saw him raise the rifle.
Q. From the car window?
A. No; but behind a large iron pipe lying along the road where a stone wall runs along on the right hand side as we came down. I saw him raise the rifle, and saw his head down on the sight, and I saw the flash, and the bullet came along and cut some little limbs off a tree behind us. I could almost trace its flight until it struck these men, and the two of them fell almost at the same instant; and I thought before, and do yet, that that was the man who killed those two men.
Q. Was it near the car?
A. The car was down in the hollow, and this was when we were going up the hill, before we got to the arsenal. I called up two or three of my men and said, shoot that fellow, and we tried to, but we didn't succeed, and I am sorry we didn't. Just then things got mixed up a little, and we were ordered to the rear, and we stayed there as long as there was any firing going on, when they took us up and puts us on the right until we found a camping ground.
Q. Did you see any policemen on your march?
A. Yes; quite a squad in front of a fire engine house or a police station house. It had the appearance of either of those two places. They were strung along the curb-stone as we went along. Some of boys were hallooing "pass in review," "guide right," as soldiers will sometimes, even under the most trying circumstances. I noticed half a dozen or probably ten people there that I supposed to be policemen, with a good many citizens mixed in behind. It looked like a sort of rendezvous for the mob.
Q. Did the policemen make any remarks as you passed?
A. I didn't hear any. There was some firing out of the crowd after we got by a little piece. Some few shots were fired, and I told the boys to turn around and give it to them; but as we turned around, they went into the house.
Q. Could you tell who fired?
A. I could not tell. There were some citizens mixed up with them. I saw smoke, and knew the shots came from the crowd, but whether it was policemen or citizens I cannot say.
Q. How far away were you?
A. Sixty or seventy-five yards.
Q. Were any threats made by those policemen to arrest any of those citizens or the crowd who were following you?
A. No.
Q. Could they have prevented them from following you--the policemen that you saw?
A. If they had had the disposition.
Q. If they had made the effort?
A. Yes; the impression may have been a false one, but our impression was that they were about as bitter enemies as we had there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You mean the policemen?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How did you get that idea?
A. From the manner in which they acted. We regarded them as bad as anybody we had met there, and so far as my boys were concerned we had made up our minds to give it to them when we got a chance. We thought it was their duty to protect the peace, and not assist in breaking it up, and we preferred them to citizens. That is what I mean. We meant to give it to them, if we got a chance.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you have an opportunity to mingle in with the crowd?
A. Not a great many. I served with the Pittsburghers for three years, and I met a few of them out there.
Q. You knew some of the Pittsburghers?
A. Yes; I have served with them.
Q. In what regiment were you?
A. The Sixty-first Pennsylvania, commanded by Oliver H. Ripley, of Pittsburgh.
Q. You met some of them there while on this trip?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether you were led to believe that the people of Pittsburgh sympathized with the rioters?
A. There is no doubt about it.
Q. That they sympathized with the rioters?
A. Entirely so.
Q. And were hostile towards the Philadelphia soldiers?
A. It was very difficult to tell whether they despised the Pennsylvania Railroad Company or the Philadelphia troops most; but they certainly hated both of them. They were very angry at our coming out there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You spoke of citizens of Pittsburgh. Was it not the crowd that surrounded you there, or in the mob that you heard these conversations that led you to think that the people were in sympathy with the rioters?
A. No. Not to that extent. Some of my old regiment, the Sixty-first Pennsylvania, came to see me the following Sunday, after we went back, and took occasion to say that it was a great mistake, that they were sorry to see me where I was, and that they didn't want to see any of the Sixty-first coming out there. And they were very bitter.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Of what class of men were they--what positions did they hold in life?
A. They were working men, I should judge--men employed in the mills, probably, that work hard for a living, but yet, might be good citizens.
Q. You heard them talk so?
A. They said they were sorry to see me there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have charge of the prisoners captured at Johnstown?
A. General Brinton captured three men on the railroad track, and they were taken back, and I think, handed over to the charge of the Washington Grays.
Q. Did you take any of those prisoners to Pittsburgh, and hand them over to the civil authorities?
A. Yes. And we were most grossly insulted by a policeman in the station-house at the time. He was an officer.
Q. What was the nature of that insult?
A. He could have easily passed my company. We were in line, and he insisted on pushing me out of his road into the ranks. And I asked him if he couldn't go by without breaking the company up, and he turned around and made use of a very impertinent answer. He was a great big fellow.
Q. Did you learn his name?
A. No.
Q. Or rank?
A. He was an officer, I know. He broke the left of my company up. He was a man that weighed two hundred and sixty, and was six feet two or three inches high. He was a very fine large man, but a very great blackguard, none the less. There seemed to be some spite against the soldiers out there on the part of everybody.
* * * * *
Silas W. Pettit, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your rank in the militia, in July last?
A. I was judge advocate of the First division, with the rank of major, in July last, when the division went out, on General Brinton's staff.
Q. Go on and state the circumstances, omitting the details?
A. I was called out about eight or nine o'clock in the evening, and together with the other staff officers went around to notify the different commands, and about two and a half o'clock or two o'clock we left the Pennsylvania railroad depot, about six hundred strong, and got to Pittsburgh about two and a half o'clock on Saturday afternoon. When we got there, General Brinton reported to General Latta. We went upstairs into a room in the hotel. General Latta was there, and General Pearson, and Mr. Quay, and some others. We then marched out. In the meantime, the men were getting fed. We marched out toward Twenty-eighth street, along the track. They had horses for the Gatling guns, but no proper harness or arrangements for them, and the guns had to be hauled by hand. When we got near Twenty-eighth street, General Pearson ordered General Brinton to detach a part of his command to keep the track clear in the rear, and as a result of that, the Second brigade was left, General Pearson superintending that part of the command, to keep those tracks in the rear clear, and the rest of the command--the First brigade--consisting of the First regiment, and the Third regiment, and the Weccacoe Legion, and the Washington Grays, and battery went on towards Twenty-eighth street. When we got there, or close to it, the crowd was very thick on the track and on the hills, and in the empty and loaded cars on our left. The command was formed then into two ranks, the rear rank clearing one side and the front rank the other; but the crowd commenced to press in between the ranks, and the Weccacoe Legion and Washington Grays were thrown across the front. Then we attempted to push the crowd back, and just as we got to Twenty-eighth street the fuss commenced. The sheriff and a posse were in front of us, and they attempted to arrest somebody, as far as I could make out, and clear the tracks themselves, but they failed. The firing took place immediately upon the order to charge bayonets, given to the Washington Grays and Weccacoe Legion. Some men were hurt with the bayonets.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Firing from the troops or the mob?
A. From the crowd. The firing from the troops immediately followed. The air seemed to be full of stones, and a great many pistol shots were fired from underneath the cars, and from over fences near the round-house. We got in on both sides of us--on both flanks and in front--then the troops fired. I may be mistaken, but I thought I heard an order when the firing took place.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Whence did the order come?
A. I cannot tell that very well. I was between the two ranks--a few feet from the head of the column. It was a short column, not many men in it--not over two hundred and fifty all told, while the crowd must have been ten or fifteen thousand, and it looked pretty short in consequence. I heard the firing, and the men towards the fences and cars returned the fire, and it cleared them, and then they fired up the hill. The men facing the hill fired that way, and the men in front fired, and the crowd commenced to run. The order was given then to cease firing, and I endeavored to see it enforced, and to stop the firing as soon as the order was given. It was all over in a few moments.
Q. Who gave the order first to cease firing?
A. I heard General Brinton give that order when the crowd was running. Of course, it was my duty to see that it was done.
Q. When they commenced firing how far were you from General Brinton?
A. I cannot tell exactly. General Brinton had gone front. I thought he was with General Pearson, and I was standing where he left me. He didn't ask me to follow him, and I stopped there. He went up towards the sheriff's posse. They were apparently in among the crowd right where that little watch-tower was or is.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say you heard an order?
A. To cease firing. I thought I heard an order to fire before that.
Q. Before there was any firing by the troops?
A. I thought I heard an order to fire--commence firing.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you see who it was that fired first?
A. It was over on the right of the First regiment--these two companies that were crossed from the front--it was right there it commenced. It could not have been delayed, however.
Q. You stood between the ranks?
A. The ranks were open, and all the officers were between them. The men had been faced outwards to drive the crowd away. It was the only formation that could have been made at the time.
Q. Were you in the round-house during the night?
A. After this firing the tracks were cleared, and the First brigade was turned across Twenty-eighth street. The crowd were all off the tracks, and nobody was allowed to cross them except those carrying dead and wounded. In one or two instances women came up or men who wanted to go up the hill to their residences; but the main tracks were as clear as Arch street is now. General Brinton reported the tracks were clear, and that he was ready to protect the trains; but we didn't get any, and we waited there for a considerable time. General Brinton went to the round-house with Colonel Wilson, and I remained out where I was, he not asking me to accompany him, and after awhile we received an order to go into the round-house. We took in the command and the guns that were commanded by Captain Breck, and then brought in the Second brigade, which had been back there all this time, and the men were posted in the round-house and the machine-shop, or paint-shop, and lumber-yard. I accompanied General Brinton up stairs into the office, where General Pearson was. The crowd commenced to come around the buildings with jeers and whoops, and were firing shots. General Brinton desired permission to drive them away, which was refused. Shortly after that, two of our sentries were wounded. General Brinton reported that fact, and desired permission to protect himself and drive the mob away, which was again refused him. Several of General Pearson's staff, whose names I don't know, and several railroad men, and Mr. Pitcairn, I think, and Mr. Cassatt, and I think that Mr. Watt was there, but I am not certain about him. Before they left it was fully dark, somewhere between eight and ten o'clock. General Pearson left, and told General Brinton that he was going to the depot to report to General Latta, and get orders and get provisions for the command, and that he would be back.
Q. What orders did he give General Brinton about matters while he was absent?
Q. He told him, if necessary, that he must use his own discretion until his return, but gave him to understand that he would be back in some little time--a few hours. Then we stayed there during the night. There was a good deal of firing. It sounded like an extra Fourth of July. The men who were on duty as sentinels and guarding parts of the building were alert; and the rest of the men were resting themselves.
Q. Just state what the conduct of the troops was during the night?
A. They were in good condition--in good spirits, and subordinate--they were in first-rate condition, except that they were hungry. I didn't see this trouble with the Sixth regiment, although I heard of it. But the Sixth regiment marched out in as good shape as any other. They are a regiment scattered all over the city, pretty much. They have no regimental armory, and have labored under a great many difficulties, and have not got that regimental organization and esprit de corps which they would have if they had proper facilities. They are poor men--workingmen, and scattered almost over the city, and it is a wonder to me that they ever kept together at all. When we were going to march out, it was necessary to clear that part of the street, and they cleared it. They opened fire out of some of the windows.
Q. Which regiment?
A. The left of the Sixth regiment. Captain Ryan's men were guarding at the board-yard.
Q. Was there any firing going out Penn street?
A. Yes; the command passed out--I don't know what direction it is--the west end of the machine shop in good order. I had cause to know that, because I went back while they were marching out, to see whether Captain Breck had spiked his guns. They were too heavy for us to take with us, and we had no ropes to haul them by. I saw the whole column. We were marching in column of fours. We had received orders during the night to go, and at the time we left the round-house was on fire, and it was a physical impossibility for men to stay there.
Q. Did you see any policemen at the station, as you passed out Penn street?
A. I saw a number of policemen at the place which I took to be a station-house. It may not have been. In talking about it afterwards, we always spoke of it as a station-house. As I remember, it had a lamp or bracket in front of it. It may have been an engine-house, or some sort of a public hall. A crowd was there of fifteen or twenty men, dressed in police uniform. Of course, I don't know that they were policemen. I did not see them fire.
Q. Whereabouts were you in the column?
A. I was at the rear part of the time--most of the time--but went forward to report to General Brinton what was the state of affairs there. Then I would come back and see what was going on along the column. The First regiment was front, and the Third regiment in the rear of them, and the battery, and the Weccacoe Legion, and the Washington Grays, and I think Captain Ryan at that time was in the center, and then the Sixth regiment in the rear.
Q. Did you hear any firing from near the station-house as you passed?
A. It was pretty near all the time, and I didn't notice it specially. It was a subject of conversation afterward among ourselves, that that firing had taken place among the policemen.
Q. Were you present when General Brinton met Major Buffington at the arsenal?
A. I was at the rear at that time.
Q. And you didn't hear what took place?
A. I did not. I went to the arsenal--I went up to the front of the column, and was told that General Brinton was in the arsenal, and I jumped over the fence--I was refused admission at the gate--and I went in there, but I met a lot of wounded men and I told them where to go, and I thought, perhaps, I had better go back. So I went back to the rear.
Q. Where did you tell them to go?
A. I told them to go up towards the buildings, and get attended to. They allowed the wounded to go in. They took in Lieutenant Ash and all the wounded.
Q. Were you in the regular army during the late war?
A. I was in the Fifteenth Infantry.
Q. For how long?
A. I was in there about a year. I was only a boy, and my health gave out.
Q. What is your profession now?
A. I am an attorney-at-law.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was Captain Breck in the round-house during the night you were there?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he remain there until you left?
A. Yes; he remained there, and seemed to desire to do his duty, as did his command. He only had a squad, however.
Q. Where did he go with his command after you left the round-house?
A. Nowhere; his men scattered in the city. We could not take his guns, and I suppose he didn't think he was obliged to go with us.
Q. Do you know how many men he had?
A. About a dozen or fifteen at the outside. Then there was a Captain Murphy who offered to show us the way to the arsenal. I only saw one man with him in uniform. He did his duty as well as he could, and piloted us out there. We were strangers in the city, and didn't know where to go, except that we had orders to go out Penn avenue, and did not know where it was. At Sharpsburg we met Major Norris, and went on towards the poor-house.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you present when Major Norris met General Brinton?
A. I was present when he got out of his carriage.
Q. Did you hear him give any orders?
A. No; I was with the guns we were pulling up. He spoke to me, and then went towards General Brinton, and I didn't see him afterwards. He didn't tell me anything particular, and I never heard of any orders given by him, until about three weeks afterwards.
Walter G. Wilson, re-called:
By the witness: I simply want to make a little correction in my testimony, in regard to the arsenal. I stated I was not aware of any sentinel or sergeant accompanying us. My impression was it was Captain Murphy, of the Jefferson Cavalry, but I have since been informed it was a sergeant of the guard. I simply want to have that matter corrected.
E. DeC. Loud, re-called:
By the witness: A statement has been made here, in regard to the Sixth regiment, which I wish to correct. It was one of my brigade. They had about one hundred and ninety to two hundred men that night. That company that Captain Ryan testified in regard to had somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty men.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The company that wanted to lay down their arms?
A. Yes; I went in to see about the matter, and I could find nothing of it. The thing had been all quieted over, and when the troops were ordered out, they obeyed as promptly as any other troops.
Q. Who was the captain of that command?
A. There was no captain, but a lieutenant.
Q. What was his name?
A. I don't remember now. I thought it was nothing but a company growl. This company was peculiarly situated. It had a position where they could see nothing of what was going on. I heard from my adjutant general that something was going on--some disturbance--and I went to see about it; but the whole thing was quieted over. The men said they understood that all were going out, and they thought they might as well go out as anybody else, as they had not any chance to get anything to eat. They couldn't defend themselves, and they got tired, and they had nothing to eat. I didn't attach any importance to it, because when I took them out on the street they stood up to their work as well as the rest of them.
At this point, the committee adjourned to three o'clock, P.M.
SAME DAY.
MONDAY, March 25, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, in the St. Cloud hotel, and continued the taking of testimony.
* * * * *
Alexander Gilchrist, sworn by the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At No. 1806, Webster street.
Q. Were you with General Brinton at Pittsburgh, in July last?
A. I was.
Q. In what capacity?
A. Division orderly.
Q. Were you stationed on Saturday afternoon, when the firing occurred, at Twenty-eighth street.
A. At the telegraph office.
Q. Who placed you there?
A. I was placed there by order of General Brinton, who told me to place his division flag out there. I did so. The troops were marched towards Twenty-eighth street. He told me if any dispatches came, to bring them down to him. I put the division flag out there, and kept it out until five and a half o'clock. Then I understood from Major Baugh that the mob was trying to pull the flag down, and he told me to take it down, and put it in the Union depot. I did so. He then told me to get some men of the Black Hussars, and keep guard over some ammunition there. We did so, until two o'clock Sunday morning.
Q. How many of the Black Hussars were with you?
A. Four or five were there. We kept guard there until very near daybreak. At that time the men said they were going to get something to eat, and I said I would remain until they came back. But no one came back. I then went to major Baugh, and said nobody was on guard but myself over the ammunition, and he said they had shifted for themselves, and I thought I had better do so. I addressed him as major, and he said don't address me as major. He wanted me to drop that. I remained until the people came out of church, and I said I was not going to stay there any longer by myself. I said I was going to try to find out where the division was, and I asked a police officer where the mayor's office was. He said down the street. I said what street. I didn't know the streets. He said, oh, you are one of those Philadelphians. I said yes. One of those damned Philadelphians. He said, down the street, and any person can tell you where it is. I went down to a stone building, and asked a citizen if that was the mayor's office, and he said it was. I went inside, and asked somebody if he could tell where the mayor was, and he said yes, in the back room. I went in and asked a man if he was the mayor. He said he was. I asked if he could tell me where the Philadelphia division was. He said, do you mean General Pearson's division. I said no; General Brinton's division. He said, I don't know anything about that damned division. They ought to be all burned or killed, or something of that kind.
Q. You were certain it was Mayor McCarthy?
A. He was pointed out to me by an officer.
Q. Did you ask him?
A. I asked if he was the mayor of the city, and he said he was.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What did he say?
A. I asked him if he could tell me where the Philadelphia division was, and he said he didn't know anything about the division--that they ought to be all killed or in hell, and I thanked him and came away, and went down to Union depot again. That was just before they set fire to it. I stood there a few minutes. At that time the fire was caught to the telegraph office, adjoining the sheds. I thought probably I could get in and get the division flag, but the flames got in that far. I went in, and counted four officers and a sergeant of police. I went to go up stairs, and the sergeant asked where I was going. I said I wanted to get the division flag. He said you just get out of here, or I will break my club over your damned neck. I tried two or three times, and every time I was told I couldn't go up.
Q. Where was this ammunition stored that you guarded during Saturday night?
A. It was in the cellar, at the Union depot.
Q. You remained there until two o'clock Sunday, guarding it?
A. Yes.
Q. When you left, was there anybody guarding it?
A. No. Nobody was there at all. Every person had cleared out.
Q. Did Captain Breck come there at any time during Sunday, to move the ammunition?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. Was any attempt made to move the ammunition while you were there?
A. No; the ammunition was all burned up. On Saturday night, I was standing at the gate there, as you go into Union depot; two citizens were standing there talking, and they said it would be the roughest day's work for the Philadelphia militia coming there; that not a damned one would go back alive.
Q. How were they dressed?
A. They looked to me to be like business men.
Q. From their dress, you would think they were?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they say anything else?
A. No; that is all I heard. I was standing right behind them at the time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Whereabouts was the division head-quarters?
A. At the telegraph office.
Q. At Union depot?
A. No; a little office at the far end of the sheds, towards Twenty-eighth street. General Latta was sending telegraphs from there.
Q. Was it at the end of the sheds connected with Union depot, or down in the yard further?
A. Say there is Union depot, then there is a line of sheds running down towards Twenty-eight street, and there is a little off sort of place there, and a telegraph office on the first floor.
Q. Some distance from Twenty-eighth street?
A. I don't know how far Twenty-eighth street is.
Q. Was it attached to the sheds?
A. I would not say that for certain, but I think it was.
* * * * *
Wilson Norris, sworn by the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence, and what official capacity you were acting in, in July last?
A. I live here in Philadelphia. In July last, I was going from Beaver to Pittsburgh, when the riots broke out. General Latta requested me to accompany him. At that time I was going west to visit Colonel Quay. I did accompany him to Pittsburgh, and during the night the riot broke out. The general then requested me to stay. I was there during the whole period of the riot, and subsequently. It would be a long story, to go on and tell all I saw, but I will be glad to answer any questions.
Q. Did you convey any orders, or visit General Brinton at any time to convey any orders to him from General Latta?
A. In this way. In the morning when we heard that General Brinton had escaped from the round-house, Captain Aull was there, and an order was given to him to convey to General Brinton. No other officers were around, and I volunteered to go and find General Brinton, if I could. I knew very well that General Brinton, perhaps, would not respect my order if I did convey it, and therefore it was mentioned in the order to Captain Aull, that he should consult with me about the situation. I started with Colonel Stewart in a carriage, and reached General Brinton beyond Sharpsburg, just on the hill. I explained the purport of the order sent by Captain Aull, and by the way, the order was but a sequence of other orders he had received during the night. He told me he had not taken the direction he was ordered to go, because he wanted to escape to the hills and entrench, where he could protect himself from the mob. I suggested to him to return to the town of Sharpsburg, but he said there was a worse feeling, or as bad a feeling manifested there as in Pittsburgh, and that directly he would have two hundred and fifty thousand people of the county about him. We had some conversation why he didn't take the route to the east, and he said he had been followed by a large crowd of men. I knew nothing about that, because I saw no armed men on the way to him. General Brinton certainly understood the purport of the order given to Captain Aull, because his conversation evidenced that--there is no question about that. As to the propriety of his going the way he did, going on his own discretion, I have nothing to say about that. But he certainly knew what the purport of the order was, which was that he was to make a junction with Colonel Guthrie, and the other troops at East Liberty.
Q. Were you present when the order was given to Captain Aull by General Latta?
A. Yes.
Q. Was any direction given to him as to what route he should take to reach General Brinton?
A. I don't remember any further, than by the most immediate route. I passed Captain Aull myself on the way; as he had a buggy, I presumed he would reach there before we did.
Q. How were you traveling?
A. In a cab. I then overtook General Brinton, and told him if he would come back to Sharpsburg, that we might possibly get provisions and ammunition to him. That was his great complaint. I suggested that cars were running to and fro--and while I was there a Pullman train was just passing. He didn't even stop to consult with me or stop his command until it was stopped by the surgeon's request--stopped to take a ball out. I walked at least a mile with General Brinton, leaving the carriage behind. I know it must have been that far, from the distance I had to walk back. I wanted him to go back, but he said he would wait half a mile beyond--on the hill beyond, but I ascertained afterward he didn't stop there. I immediately went back.
Q. From what point did you start when you started to reach General Brinton?
A. From Union depot; and I came back to Union depot.
Q. What time of the day was it?
A. I won't be positive about that. I cannot say what time. I will not be positive--probably about eight or nine o'clock in the morning. It was shortly after their exit from the round-house. It was not a very great length of time afterwards.
Q. What time did you learn of their exit from the round-house?
A. I presume it was about half an hour before I started--possibly it might have been three quarters.
Q. How did the news reach you?
A. It came from Captain Breck. He came down the track with some eight or nine men--no, I think the first information we got was from Captain Aull. He said he had seen the command start down the street, and we discredited it, and went down to make some inquiries, and discovered Captain Breck, and he said it was so. Then the suggestion was made that the command be reached by somebody, and then Captain Aull and myself were sent.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you see any messages or dispatches while in the round-house from General Brinton to General Latta?
A. Yes.
Q. How many.
A. I should think three or four, carried by the messenger that was passing to and fro.
Q. Can you give the purport of those messages?
A. Well they were chiefly calling for provisions and for ammunition, and explaining the situation.
Q. Did he ask for any assistance?
A. I believe he did. I didn't see what assistance could have been furnished him just then, further than to supply him with ammunition and provisions, and every effort was made to do that.
Q. Did he ask about the regular troops--whether they were on the way?
A. I really don't recollect. He possibly may have done so--I cannot say at this time. I think there was some information given about the coming of Colonel Rodgers and other troops from the east and General Huidekoper's command from the north. I think there may have been some inquiries about that. I think possibly there were.
Q. Did you infer from any of those messages received from General Brinton that his men were in a demoralized condition or inefficient?
A. From one portion of them. There was a dispatch that conveyed that information in unmistakable terms. I remember that distinctly, for I remember the regiment he named.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What regiment did he name?
A. I would rather not say that, unless you insist.
Q. Was it the Sixth regiment?
A. Yes. I think myself from the temper of the people about there, that General Brinton would have been ordered to take the street, had it not been for that dispatch. So far as I was personally concerned, I thought it was a piece of folly to remain there. I was satisfied, at any time, if a proper movement had been made that he could have gotten out. I saw the mob probably better than they did themselves--I saw a great deal of it--in the night and in the morning. It was very much worse in the morning than in the night, because it was aflame with rum, and utterly irresponsible at that time. I think it just simply exhausted itself.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was any one present when you communicated the substance of this order to General Brinton?
A. There may have been several officers around. I think there were.
Q. Do you remember who?
A. I don't, because I walked along half a mile, or a mile, possibly--half a mile at least. I suppose that some of General Brinton's staff officers were around. The conversation was just in the way I tell you. I gave him no direct order, because I doubted whether I had the authority, and he intimated he would not take such information, anyhow. He said if he got a direct order he might move back. I didn't pretend to convey any positive order to him.
Q. You say you found the command at Sharpsburg or Claremont?
A. Yes.
Q. How far is it from Sharpsburg to Claremont?
A. I really cannot tell you.
Q. How far did he march after you met him?
A. I heard some seven or eight miles. I don't know anything about that; but, when I asked where they found him, they told me some seven or eight miles from where I met him.
Q. Do you know where he encamped that night?
A. I do not. I was in Pittsburgh.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you with General Latta during Sunday evening?
A. Yes.
Q. And remained with him until Monday?
A. Yes.
Q. Did any officer or any person reach General Latta from General Brinton asking for orders, on Sunday evening?
A. I saw one or two of his officers, but I have no recollection whether they were after orders or not.
Q. Where did you see them?
A. At the hotel.
Q. The Union Depot?
A. No; the Monongahela house. When I came back from General Brinton, the Union Depot hotel had been abandoned.
Q. What time did these officers come to the Monongahela house?
A. In the evening, about seven o'clock--possibly later.
Q. Did they return to General Brinton that night?
A. That I cannot say.
* * * * *
Thompson Lennig, re-called:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You were a private in the artillery corps, Washington Grays?
A. Yes; I served as such on that occasion.
Q. Were you in the company detailed to clear away the crowd at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; after the First regiment had been divided, the rear rank remained on the left hand side of the railroad; and the front rank was marched across the railroad, extending west from Twenty-eighth street, and the Washington Grays, to which I was attached at the time, were taking charge of the Gatlings. We were ordered to come front, march through the two ranks, and take charge of the crossing. We only had nine men and one officer. We had received short notice to leave, and that is all the men we had. We were ordered to push the crowd back with arms aport. It had no effect. They outnumbered us six or eight to one. Then the Weccacoe Legion was ordered up, a company with from twenty to twenty-five men at the outside. The Grays were divided, five men to one side, and four men on the other. We were then ordered to push the crowd back again. Being a little heavier, we succeeded in pushing them back; but they began to grab our pieces, and I saw one of the Grays who had his piece almost taken out of his hand. The crowd then began to draw their pistols. We had received no orders to fire whatever. This man simply retained his piece by using his bayonet, and my impression is he run the man through. His piece was rusty the next day. At that time the pistol firing began at Twenty-eighth street. The mob were all yelling and hooting. I then heard a rifle shot on our right; that is to say, the rear rank of the First regiment, which had been marched toward the hill. At the most, in thirty seconds not a man in our command would have had his piece, they outnumbered us so. Other shots followed, and I think that the general impression was that the command had been given. Every man felt that it was necessary it should come. The shots followed each other, and I think the whole command fired spontaneously. I heard no command to fire, and I don't think any other man in the command did.
Q. Could you have heard a command?
A. No; the only command I heard was from Colonel Benson, as the First regiment was coming up, and from the evolution which followed, it must have been "four paces left." Colonel Benson has a powerful voice. I only judged what it was from the evolution that followed. All the rioters were yelling and screaming at the same time, and it was utterly impossible to hear any command.
Q. How many pistol shots were fired before this shot?
A. It would be impossible to say.
Q. Generally speaking?
A. I think there had been firing, perhaps, two or three minutes. There were a number of cars standing there, and a number of rioters were underneath the cars, and the shots came out from underneath, and many of our men, I have heard, were wounded in the legs. I saw myself men drawing pistols in front of us, and heard them all calling us opprobrious names, and saying that no one would get home. They evidently thought we never would fire at all. As soon as the firing did take place, they scattered completely, and to all intents and purposes, it struck me that the riot was quelled. If there had been a little more determination after that, I think there would have been no further trouble.
Q. You were in the round-house?
A. Until nine o'clock, then the Washington Grays were ordered out with one of the guns or Gatlings, facing on Liberty street, on the opposite side from Captain Ryan's command, and we were there all night.
Q. What was the conduct of the soldiers during the night?
A. I saw nothing that was not thoroughly soldierly. This Sixth regiment, of which they speak, was in the paint-shop, and we could not see them where they were. I heard no complaints for want of food, yet, of course, we didn't have food. We had an ample supply of water in the round-house. I heard no complaints for want of food.
* * * * *
Robert M. Brinton, re-called:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were there any of your division that failed to report to you at Pittsburgh, after being ordered out, and if so, why?
A. There were quite a number--probably one half of the division. More than one half. They failed to report at Pittsburgh on account of the shortness of the notice they received in Philadelphia. They subsequently followed, however, and a number of them reached, I believe, Walls station--some three hundred and fifty, under Colonel Rodgers. Colonel Lyle, with probably as many men, reported at Altoona, where he was stopped. He reported there and did duty with General Beaver. I believe the only reason they failed to report was because of the impossibility of receiving timely notice. Wherever men failed to report, when we returned, the brigade commanders made strict investigation into the cases, and all those men were called before a regimental court of inquiry.
Q. Some evidence has been given before the committee of a detachment who, in coming back, stopped across the river from Harrisburg, and were escorted over the river by some parties in Harrisburg. Was that part of your division?
A. I have heard that an officer and some twenty or thirty men were, when we were returning, escorted over the river, and their arms taken away from them. I have had that officer placed under arrest, and a court-martial ordered, and the trial was in progress when, unfortunately, the president of the court tendered his resignation, and his resignation was accepted and forwarded to him, and the court was dissolved. Since then another court has been appointed, and that court is now sitting in the investigation of the conduct of that officer. For the last six months we have had courts-martial going on in the division, and in the case of one officer tried, I think the testimony amounted to twenty-seven pages, closely written matter. The finding was cowardice and absence without leave, and the court said under extenuating circumstances. I reviewed the testimony carefully, and from the testimony couldn't see how cowardice could be substantiated--how that verdict was proper. In regard to being absent without leave, I thought that the testimony was not sufficient to exonerate the officer, although he was ill at the time, as he could have communicated with the commanding officer to know where he was. In every instance where we could detect any omission of duty, we examined into it carefully.
Q. Did you ascertain who the privates were with that crowd?
A. Yes; and those men will be tried.
Q. They have not been tried yet?
A. Not to my knowledge. I don't officially know anything about the inquiry until it comes from brigade head-quarters; but I know that proceedings have been instituted against every man we could find that deserted his command or who didn't go out. The pay of this officer who was on trial has been stopped. He has not been paid, and it is hanging in that way until the case is decided.
Q. The case you speak of now, as reviewing, is the one alluded to by one of the witnesses--Colonel Benson?
A. Yes.
Q. Did that detachment afterwards report for duty?
A. I think it did. I think it afterwards joined us when the Governor came and opened communication with us at Blairsville.
Q. State what time Colonel Norris reached you on Sunday?
A. We had crossed the bridge near Sharpsburg, and had gone beyond the limits of the town, and were halted on the side of a stream when T first saw Colonel Norris. He stopped his barouche below and came up and stood along side of me. Colonel Wilson and General Loud were with me at the time. I am not mistaken on the subject. He gave me no orders whatever. I have tried to tax my memory, because it was what I wanted all the time. I thought it was a singular thing, because after our column had marched from the round-house, where it was impossible to get orders, I thought possibly I might get an officer to guide our column, and when I saw Colonel Norris, I was glad to see him, expecting orders.
Q. What did he state his mission was?
A. His mission was to find out where we were, and to attempt to ration us. That seemed to be his particular mission. So far as giving me any orders or consulting me in regard to them, I positively deny it.
Q. Did he state to you that Captain Aull had received an order from General Latta, to communicate to you?
A. I don't remember that he did that. I didn't know Captain Aull at the time. He was not on the Governor's staff. I had been on the Governor's staff myself, and I knew no such officer on the staff.
Q. Did Captain Norris claim to be acting on the staff of General Latta, or on that of the Governor in any way? Was he a staff officer?
A. At that time, no.
Q. Did he represent himself to be?
A. No, sir; he didn't.
Q. Or that he was authorized by the Adjutant General to convey orders?
A. Our conversation--I remember the first thing he said, was when we got up, "Bob, my God I am glad to see you;" that was the first expression he used. He asked where I was going to, and I said I was going to get something to eat, and that I had moved up the hill because I didn't want to remain in Sharpsburg, where some of the Fourteenth regiment had been shot, and where I thought there might be further difficulty, it being Sunday, and the men all idle. He walked along with us, and halted with us. We were halted when he joined us. We halted there for some little time. I remember going down and getting a drink out of a brook, and quite a number of men did so also. He walked with us for probably quarter of a mile. I said to him, for Heaven's sake Norris, try to get us some rations and some ammunition. Major Baugh joined us, and I sent him back immediately. I asked him whether he had any orders, and then I told him he would be obliged to go right back to Pittsburgh and get them. Major Baugh went back and got the orders he showed here to-day.
Q. Does anything else occur to you?
A. Only this; those officers who were with me, they may remember what Colonel Norris said; they may have refreshed their memories. I should like you to re-call those officers who were with me at the time.
Q. Captain Aull didn't reach you that day?
A. I don't remember to have seen Captain Aull that day. He didn't reach me at all. The orders I received, said to be handed to him for me, were given me one week afterwards, by Colonel Guthrie. If I had received those orders, I should have obeyed them implicitly.
* * * * *
E. DeC. Loud, re-called:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you with General Brinton when Colonel Norris reached him on Sunday?
A. I was.
Q. State what Colonel Norris said?
A. When Colonel Norris came up he jumped out of his barouche, and said what General Brinton has testified to--my God, Bob, I am glad to see you; where are you going--and he came up and shook hands with him. He said he was glad to know that we got out, and said it was a pretty good thing to get out all right. General Brinton asked about rations. We were more interested in that than anything else. We sat down on a rock along by a little run, and talked there awhile.
Q. Did you hear him say anything about Captain Aull having received any order from General Latta?
A. I don't know him.
Q. Did you hear him call his name?
A. I don't think I did. I think if there had been anything of the kind I should have noticed it, because I was with General Brinton, and my relations with General Brinton, after we got into the round-house, were closer than any other officer, except the Adjutant General. I was with him--I was with him when the scout came in and went out, and was walking with him all the way out. I was with him from the time my brigade took the right of the line, until Doctor Maris came along, and he got into the carriage with Doctor Maris. I was not away from him five minutes during all the time.
* * * * *
Walter G. Wilson, re-called:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you with General Brinton when Colonel Norris reached him?
A. I was standing right alongside of him.
Q. State what Colonel Norris said?
A. The first remark that Colonel Norris made was, my God, Bob, I am glad to see you alive, and he went on to ask some men as to what had taken place during the night, and said, where are you going? The general said, I am going to get something to eat. He said, I have been promised rations on this side of the river. He said, why don't you stay down in Sharpsburg? When he said, I am informed that there is a worse feeling in Sharpsburg than in any other part of this neighborhood, and I deem it best, if that is the case, to take possession of the hill above, only a short distance, probably a quarter of a mile. He said, I had been offered provisions for my men if I came over here, and I have done so. These men are hungry and tired, and worn but, and they really need food. They went on and had some further conversation in relation to what had taken place during the night. The general asked about some matters in relation to the movements of the troops, I believe. He had received a dispatch from General Latta during the night, announcing that a certain division had been ordered there. Colonel Norris then wanted to know whether he should stay, and the general said no; that he would rather he should go back and get some orders, and, if possible, make an effort to get provisions and ammunition.
Q. Did he mention Captain Aull's name?
A. He did not.
Q. Did you walk along with him?
A. I was at no time further away than from your phonographer here, (three or four feet.) We got up from the brook and walked up the road--probably walked a distance of a couple of squares on the road. Then Colonel Norris went back, and said he would use his utmost efforts to communicate with him again, and furnish him with ammunition and rations. Captain Aull's name I never heard mentioned in any way, shape, or form until the night of the 31st of July, when at the Duquesne Club, Colonel Guthrie came up to General Brinton, and said I have got a dispatch for you--the order.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you within hearing distance all the time?
A. Yes; at no time further away than from this gentlemen here, (the stenographer.) I considered that my post, and was always there ready for anything the general might want.
* * * * *
H. S. Huidekoper, sworn by the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where were you when the news of the Pittsburgh riots reached you?
A. I was in Chicago.
Q. How did they reach you?
A. I got the first news of the riot on Friday evening, I think. I was attending the United States court there, and couldn't leave, but had requested General Latta by letter, early in the week, to notify me by letter if the services of my division were needed, and, relying on that, I waited until Saturday morning, when I saw by the newspapers that my division had been ordered to Pittsburgh. I took the eight o'clock train, sending three telegrams, one to General Latta, that I would be in Pittsburgh on Sunday night; one to my brother for my uniform, and one to the assistant adjutant general of the division to move the division to Rochester, Pennsylvania, and await my arrival. I found afterwards that my request to General Latta had escaped his memory, among the many things he had to look after.
Q. What is your rank in the National Guard?
A. Major general of the Seventh division, commissioned eight years ago.
Q. Where is your residence?
A. In Meadville, Pennsylvania. I had command of the Fifteenth and Seventeenth regiments.
Q. Who is colonel of each of those regiments?
A. The colonel of the Fifteenth regiment is Colonel Carpenter, and of the Seventeenth regiment is Colonel Magee, of Oil City, then lieutenant colonel.
Q. Who was your assistant adjutant general?
A. John M. Clarke, of Meadville.
Q. Is he the one you directed to move the division to Rochester?
A. Yes.
Q. State what time you arrived at Rochester?
A. I arrived at Rochester probably about two o'clock on Sunday morning. Fortunately on the train I met Mr. Layng, general manager of the Fort Wayne road. He was in a private car on his way from Chicago to Sewickley. About four or five o'clock in the afternoon Mr. Layng, at my request, telegraphed to Greeneville an instruction to the troops there to take some ammunition that I had put in Packer's warehouse which had been left over under some requisition I made two years ago in anticipation of some trouble in Mercer county, and bring it with them to Rochester.
Q. Five o'clock of what day?
A. Saturday afternoon. After that Mr. Layng told me it was impossible to get telegraphic communication with anybody except through the hands of the men who had the wires in charge, and who were rioters.
Q. The strikers?
A. Yes; it was an exceedingly delicate thing to know how far you could telegraph to the troops, how far you could expose your weakness or want of ammunition, or how far to send your orders, or make any inquiries concerning numbers or dispositions.
Q. You arrived at Rochester at what time?
A. Two o'clock Sunday morning.
Q. What were your movements from that time?
A. I kept on the Fort Wayne train, getting out of Mr. Layng's car some twelve miles from Pittsburgh, and got into a car in front of the sleeping-car, and ran into Pittsburgh. The train was stopped at the outer depot and was examined there, and I could see the strikers moving along the cars, and there was quite a large crowd outside. The next time the train stopped, I jumped off--it was about a minute afterwards--and went across the Federal street bridge, and took a back street to the Monongahela house, and went in there to leave a hand-book, and stepped down towards the round-house. There I met General Brown, and called twice for a dispatch, but he didn't answer at once, until he saw who I was. I was in citizen's clothes. I then went in a carriage down to General Latta's head-quarters, in the Union Depot hotel. The room he occupied was on the side of the depot towards the street, and I very much questioned the safety of his position or of his staying there, as it was liable at any moment to be entered. Colonel Norris and Colonel Farr and Colonels Russell, Quay, and Stewart were all present in that room. Colonel Norris took me immediately to the end of the building, and looked out to where we could see the round-house burning. We could see distinctly the flames around it, and in a very little while a bright blaze came up, as if some cars were suddenly struck by the fire, and there was a good deal of noise and firing. He said the Philadelphia troops were in there, and asked if I couldn't get down to relieve them. I then went back and asked about ammunition, and was told it was in the cellar--about twenty boxes of it--and that Colonel Stewart had engaged wagons to remove it, and I went down on a wharf about five o'clock to engage a boat to take the ammunition to Rochester. It was hard to find any person willing to take the ammunition or anything. Most all were with the strikers, except one boat, and the captain of that agreed to take it. We went back, and there was considerable delay about getting the ammunition. I went once or twice to the ordinary telegraph office to get word from the troops, but found I could get nothing, as the wires were in the hands of the strikers.
OFFICE OF SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC PRINTING AND BINDING, HARRISBURG, PA., November 4, 1878.
The copy for the latter portion of the testimony was not delivered to me by the official reporter until November 2, 1878, which will account for the delay in the printing of this volume.
J. W. JONES, Superintendent of Public Printing and Binding.