Report of the Committee Appointed to Investigate the Railroad Riots in July, 1877 Read in the Senate and House of Representatives May 23, 1878 (part 5 of 7)
Q. Who was that man?
A. A man by the name of Davis. He is now here in our jail.
Q. Was he a railroad man?
A. No, sir.
Q. What class of people were these rioters composed of?
A. Well, we afterwards arrested a number of railroaders, though we arrested a number who were not railroaders, and they who were not railroaders, I must say, were the worst characters. The railroaders did not want the trains to run, that was about the extent that they wanted or demanded. The other party, of course, that broke in stores, behaved in a riotous manner.
Q. What did your posse--or what did you find it necessary to do to disperse the crowd?
A. I think our appearance commanded respect. I could hardly put it in any other way. I think they thought we meant business when we went down there, and I gave them to understand that in as plain a way as I could.
Q. Did you disperse them?
A. Yes; we did.
Q. Was it necessary to use any violence in doing that, any more than to make the arrests you have told us?
A. Well, we arrested other parties there. In other words, when we came down there I told them what we proposed to do. We cowed them, and the parties who replied and gave us impudence, we arrested them at once.
Q. Did you have any soldiers, any of the militia at your disposal during any of them?
A. No, sir; we did not call for the militia at all.
Q. Did not find it necessary?
A. Did not find it necessary.
Q. About how large was the crowd at that time? How many would it number in your opinion?
A. It is a hard matter to give you an estimate. The crowd broke and ran across the bridge, and parties who lived on the other side of the canal have estimated them from two to five hundred people. I judge there were two or three hundred people there anyhow.
Q. Did they re-assemble at any time after being dispersed that night?
A. No, sir. Right after we had dispersed them, we organized at once into companies and patrolled the whole town, and of course it was known that we would arrest any assemblies or any crowds at any place. On Tuesday evening there were a number of parties who were looked upon with a good deal of suspicion at the depot--at the railroad; but they made no demonstration, and dispersed on our approach.
Q. What was done with the parties that you arrested?
A. Tried and convicted at court.
Q. Do you know how many were tried and convicted?
A. No, sir; I could not tell you. We had forty under indictment, I believe. Some of them are in jail now.
Q. Were they tried by the county courts or police courts?
A. They were arrested and had a hearing before the mayor, and were tried by the county courts--committed by the mayor, and tried by the county court.
Q. Were any of the militia brought in at any time?
A. No, sir.
Q. Coming under your own knowledge.
A. No, sir; not under my own knowledge.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. I would like to ask you a question. I have understood that there was considerable grumbling and growling about the expense for that thing--how much was that?
A. The county paid in the neighborhood of $2,000. They paid me $1,965. We heard of a case in North street where a man had some two or three hundred guns in his house, and on Tuesday we took the guns from him, and he brought in a small bill and the items were made up. There were fifty men that were detailed as specials. They were on duty, in connection with the mayor's police, as policemen, and we paid those two dollars a night--or two dollars a day--and it amounted to something upwards of $1,200--between $1,200 and $1,300--and the balance of the expense was for providing rations for our men at night. We were organized as a regiment, and we had regiment and company quartermasters, and we were provided with rations at night. They had quarters and all that kind of thing. That caused the expense, which was paid by the county commissioners.
Q. Not charged to the State?
A. No, sir; charged to the county. As it was all done under my orders, the county was liable for the expense--that part of it. The mayor had charge of these fifty men, to a great extent, that acted with his policemen--the mayor's policemen acted with me from the very start.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Both acted in conjunction harmoniously?
A. Yes; the mayor and his police were the first to tender their services.
Q. Not afraid of one superseding the other?
A. We had no trouble at all. We procured fifty revolvers from the State for the use of those fifty men we had. The other men armed themselves.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Armed with muskets, and rifles, and shot guns?
A. No, sir; I wanted them only to have clubs, but nearly every one of them had pistols.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I understood you to say the mayor and police tendered their services to you?
A. As soon as I arrived in town, it was supposed by the people that the sheriff would take charge of it. The mayor came to me, and tendered the services of himself and the policemen, and the policemen and the mayor were in front in anything done where the danger was supposed to be.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Held the post of honor?
A. Yes, sir. We used the policemen as skirmishers--you understand that.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Of course, that expense has been paid by the county, and considered finally settled?
A. Yes; the expense consisting of pay for these fifty men, and there were some twenty--to distinguish them from them the rioters, we had badges printed and labeled, and all that kind of thing--did not think it necessary to get uniforms--and that cost something. The members of the posse got no pay at all.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In your official duties, did you inquire into the causes and origin of the riots, to ascertain what were the causes and grievances complained of?
A. The principal one was they did not receive enough to pay for the labor.
Q. These railroad men?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did the others complain of?
A. The others talked about being in want, and sympathizing with them on general appearance. I heard "bread or blood" in quite a number of places.
Q. Were the mill men and furnace men and the employés of the manufactories in and about the cities engaged in this riot as a general thing?
A. No, sir; I would say no. Not the men that worked. The fact of the matter was, my idea was, that the parties who were most active and violent were those who did not work at any time.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Never worked?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did they belong to the city, mostly?
A. Oh a good many of them did; yes, sir. It brought our worst characters to the surface, of course.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. When you found a man who was boisterous, and rather of an ugly disposition, you did not wait until the next day to arrest him?
A. We went for him at once.
Q. Right then and there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you not propose to do it in a quiet way?
A. We did not want to bark up a fight in any way. Of course, our whole course was to suppress disorder; but when a man was violent, we would not hesitate, and we did not run around with a chip on our shoulders, and ask some one to knock it off, or anything of that kind.
Q. The posse had pluck enough to arrest them at once?
A. We arrested them after we went to work--after we got the posse organized--wherever they could be found. The mayor's police made the largest number of arrests.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you have any conversation with the railroad men to ascertain what their grievances were?
A. No, sir; not to any extent.
Q. Did you, with any of the parties that you arrested?
A. Oh, I talked with them after they were in jail; yes, sir.
Q. Did you find out from the railroad strikers, or from any reliable source, whether there was any pre-arranged plan for a strike or not among the railroad men?
A. From what they told me, they would give me that impression--that there was a pre-arranged plan for a strike. They complained. My understanding of what they told me was that they had been got into this thing by the engineers, and then the engineers had stood back and let them stand the trouble. Their words were, "Stand the racket."
Q. What day did they first strike here in Harrisburg?
A. That I cannot tell. I was not here.
Q. Was there any organization here known as the Trainmen's Union?
A. I understand that they have an organization here--Locomotive Engineers' and Trainmen's Union.
Q. Did you learn it from any of the men themselves?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you learn the objects of the Trainmen's Union?
A. Well, all objects--the idea that they gave me was, it was for beneficial and mutual protection. The parties that were arrested--the larger part of them that were arrested by the mayor's police, they blamed it more on the locomotive engineers than any other society. That they had got them to strike, and showed their hand, and got them into trouble, and they had stood back and done nothing. We often find, when persons are in trouble and they are in jail, they always have some other parties to blame it on.
Q. Did they say to you what they proposed to do?
A. No, sir; other than they wanted their wages increased. They did not speak of the organization as one of the objects being for the purpose of getting up strikes. They said it was more as a beneficial and mutual protection society; but I inferred from what they said that they regarded the society would act together in a strike.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was it a complaint they made of the reduction of the wages--that the wages had been reduced?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you learn when that reduction had taken place?
A. I did not.
Q. Whether it was immediately preceding this strike or not?
A. That I do not know, sir.
Q. Did not learn from them how long their complaint had been standing--how long it had been running--whether recent?
A. No, sir; they did not go into the particulars at all in their complaint. It was on general principles about the workingmen being oppressed, and the road oppressing them.
Q. The rich oppressing the poor?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did these men that you talked with claim the right to interfere with other men who were willing to work; did you have any talk with them on that subject?
A. Well, I cannot say that I could answer that direct. They said, in substance, that those men who did not assist them, that were working men, that did not go into the strike with them, were blacklegs, and all that kind of thing; appeared to have a good deal of feeling against those that wanted to work, and did not go in with them to the strike.
Q. Complaining against those who would not join them?
A. Yes, sir.
* * * * *
Thomas Reckord, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I resided, at that time, at the bridge--the toll bridge.
Q. In July last.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was your business then?
A. Toll-gate keeper.
Q. At what bridge?
A. Harrisburg bridge--toll bridge.
Q. The bridge across the Susquehanna?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. On Monday, the 23d day of July, state whether there was any crowd coming there to cross the bridge from the city?
A. Yes; I was sitting in the office, reading a paper. All at once I heard a great noise, and I looked out the window of the house, and I saw a large crowd coming up, I suppose two or three hundred.
Q. What time of the day was it?
A. I can hardly tell you what time of the day it was. I think it was towards noon, or some place about that time.
Q. Go on and tell us all the facts about?
A. Well. I jumped off my seat and ran out of the door. I saw they were making for the bridge. I run and shut the gate. There was a great part of them got over before I got that accomplished. I shut the gates and kept a great many this side. Those that got in passed over the bridge while I was there. There was another crowd came and insisted upon going over, and I wouldn't unlock the gates. They told me they would break the gates. Very well, said I, you can do so. There was one man--a young man--he was half grown--a great part of them were young men--he went and took hold of the picket-gate to break it open. I caught him by the collar of the neck and threw him back. I said I would throw him in the river if he didn't stop. He wanted to know what I had to do about it. I told him I would show him. I kept him at bay there for a long time. Finally there was a man came there--I cannot recollect his name now--and told me the mayor had sent him up there to tell me to open the gate. I used the remark that the mayor had nothing to do with that--I wouldn't open the gate--this was individual property, and it had nothing to do with the matter at all. I wouldn't open the gates. Some of them jumped over--some of them jumped over the gates, and finally this man insisted that the mayor had sent him. I wouldn't believe him at first. Finally he said it was so, and there was two or three men stood at the gate there and begged me to leave them over. Says I, if I open the gates they will crowd in. They said they wanted to go over, and would help me to shut the gates. These men were standing there waiting to get over, and they promised to help. I unlocked the gate, and after I unlocked it these men came in and tried to help me shut it, but the crowd pressed so hard, by the time I got the latch in they sprung the gate and threw it off its hinges--it is just set on hinges--and the gate fell over, then they all rushed in. I had no more command over them at all. They all rushed right through.
Q. How large a crowd went through?
A. I suppose there was a couple of hundred went over. I may say so by the looks of them.
Q. Did they say what they were going for?
A. Yes; some of them.
Q. What did they give as their object?
A. Their object was to go over there for some soldiers--over there to bring them over in safety. These soldiers over at Fairview--they wanted to come over, and they sent a man over to get some one to protect them.
Q. Did you see the man the soldiers sent over?
A. No; I didn't. He might have paid his toll, and went over.
Q. Do you know of your own knowledge that they sent a man over?
A. No, sir: I don't.
Q. You only get that from the crowd?
A. Hearsay.
Q. Did they come back?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State the facts?
A. When they came back they had soldiers in the center, they flanked all around, and came in a kind of square across the bridge.
Q. How many soldiers were there?
A. There might have been twenty or thirty. I really don't recollect. I knew at the time. It has passed my memory. Something near that. They were in the center of these--fetched them over with music.
Q. What kind of music did they have?
A. Drum and fife, I think it was.
Q. How large a crowd was surrounding the soldiers?
A. There was not so many surrounding them as they came over. There was a kind of square formed, and the balance was running loose around.
Q. What class of men?
A. Most of them were half grown boys and negroes.
Q. Who carried the arms?
A. Some few boys carried some of the soldier's arms, and the rest the soldiers carried themselves.
Q. Did you try to prevent them going through the gates when they came back?
A. Oh! no.
Q. You allowed them to pass?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. No one seemed to be commanding this crowd or to lead the mob--no one seemed to be leading the mob or controlling it?
A. No one, individually. There was some men there that used very hard expressions toward me, sitting on the bench, and they threatened to mash my head, and everything else.
Q. Was there any one giving commands to the mob?
A. No; I didn't see any individual giving commands. They all seemed to take part in it--no one individual that I took notice.
Q. No one directed their movements?
A. No; they came up in a crowd.
Q. Did there seem to be any officers among the soldiers?
A. That is more than I can answer.
Q. You didn't see any one that from their uniform or any other emblem seemed to be officers?
A. Not that I can recollect. I don't know as there was any officers among them. I cannot recollect whether there was or not.
Q. The soldiers and the crowd were on good terms?
A. They came very quietly through, there was nothing----
Q. Did the soldiers act as if they were prisoners of war?
A. They walked very quietly surrounded by these men--went up Market street.
Q. There didn't seem to be any coercion there?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long was the crowd gone before they returned with the soldiers?
A. It might have been a couple of hours--fully that, I guess. There was a crowd continued there until they came back. I had to keep the gates locked all the time--the crowd was still remaining there waiting for them to come back.
* * * * *
Attorney General Lear, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You may state what facts came under your own observation in relation to the railroad riots of last July?
A. The first knowledge I had of them was on the morning of Friday, which was the 20th, I guess. I received two dispatches, brought by the same boy at the same time, one from Governor Latta and the other from Adjutant General Latta in relation to these matters. The Governor told me that he had been applied to by the sheriff of Allegheny county to assist in suppressing the riot, but he thought he had no authority, and had so answered the application. I telegraphed to him I thought he was right, there was no vacancy in the office of Governor; and the Adjutant General's dispatch was from West Philadelphia, that he was then on his way in pursuance of the clause stating that he had general authority from the Governor before he went away, &c.--I cannot tell the language of the dispatch at all. I telegraphed to him that I thought he ought to go--sent two dispatches, one to Philadelphia and Harrisburg. I believed from his dispatch that he had gone to Harrisburg. Then I was at home in Doylestown, at that time. On Monday or Sunday I got knowledge of the thing being serious. I concluded I ought to be nearer to it so that if there was anything for me to do I could do it; and I started to Philadelphia, and I got there and found a messenger at the hotel waiting to take me to West Philadelphia--with a carriage--to see Colonel Scott, who had a dispatch from the Governor, asking him to send me to meet him at the nearest point I could reach him in Pennsylvania. Colonel Scott suggested that the best place would probably be at Beaver, where Quay was. That was on Monday, the 23d, at twelve o'clock, and at half past six, the first train that went, I started to go to Beaver. I went through Harrisburg on the evening the sheriff has testified to, the 23d, and on out to Pittsburgh. All that occurred there was that I met the Governor. He came to Pittsburgh instead of stopping at Beaver. I got a dispatch that he was going on through, and I saw several committees of citizens at Pittsburgh during the day, and asked for the Governor to remain. A committee of printers and newspaper men, and a committee of bankers, who said they were in the hands then of people that might go any time into their banks and compel them to open their vaults, and a committee, of business men, men who had large numbers of hands employed, wanted me to impress upon the Governor the importance of recommending a compromise, which I didn't feel much inclined to recommend. The Governor came there that evening at seven o'clock, without having determined whether he would remain or not. I went to the train to go with him east, but he concluded--there was a committee of people there to wait upon him--and he did remain. That was seven o'clock, Tuesday evening. He remained until three o'clock the next morning. We didn't go to bed. We remained at the Monongahela house and prepared, and Mr. Quay and the Governor supervised, the proclamation that was issued from the room there, and met committees of citizens, &c., and remained up until three o'clock or half past two, and we started down to Allegheny depot. We had to go from there at that time. We found several acres of people around there in the way. They didn't disturb us. Stopped us going across the bridge to see what we were and who we were, but went on notwithstanding. We came east, and at Altoona, when we took breakfast, there were, I suppose, a thousand people around there. A crowd of that sort of people that generally constitute a riot and a mob.
Q. Demonstration at Altoona?
A. No. We had to crowd our way through to get our breakfast--the Governor, Colonel Quay, and myself. Doctor Reed was along. We got in and got our breakfast, but we had some difficulty to get there, because there was a crowd there, but they didn't disturb us. The Governor, when they came in, somebody said something to him, and he made some remarks on the platform, and they gave the Governor three cheers--after breakfast. Then we returned to Philadelphia, and made arrangements which took the Governor back. We got to Philadelphia on Wednesday, and on Thursday he returned west, and went to Pittsburgh, when he had got his military properly organized--and Mr. Quay and myself remained there, and some others of the Governor's staff, and communicated with parties in connection with the business, and to see about organizing some others--I was not concerned in that--organizing an additional military organization for the purpose of going out to the scene of the difficulty; but we remained there until Saturday morning. I received a dispatch from the Governor asking me to go and join him at Pittsburgh. I don't think he stated what he wanted me for. Yes, he did. He stated he wanted to see about what to do with certain prisoners that had been captured at Johnstown, by a regiment of regulars, under Colonel Hamilton; and I went out that afternoon, and I reached Pittsburgh about twelve o'clock at night. We went over--the first train, probably, that went in over the route that had been torn up in different places--where the old depot was, and had it torn out, that Colonel Hamilton's train, or the train his soldiers were on, was thrown off the track by the turning of the switch at Johnstown, about seven o'clock in the evening, and that he was very much injured himself--I think he had a rib or two broken--he could hardly sit down; but his men got out immediately and formed, and they picked up everybody that came about there, from that on until Monday--found some of them after daylight--were picked up and put into a car and taken to Pittsburgh, and put in the arsenal, and they had fifty-five of them there.
Q. As prisoners?
A. Prisoners, and the object of my being sent for was to see what to do with them. On Sunday I went out there, and was met by Daniel J. Worrall and the chief of police of Johnstown. He was brought along to see whether he could identify any of the dangerous or turbulent class of people of Johnstown, and I went into examination--all I could do was with the aid of eight of these policemen and Mr. Worrall, and I examined each one on oath--sixty of them, at least. The other fifteen of them were retained, because they were a little more suspicious characters, and it turned out, according to any kind of evidence that we could get--and I guess it was the fact--that they had been idlers that heard of this train being wrecked. Some of them were very innocent people, who had come there to see if they could render assistance. Some had come as idle spectators, and there was not the slightest evidence from any source that any of them had been guilty of having turned the switch, or were participants in the stoning of the train. The train had been stoned just before they got there, but none of those people were arrested until some little time afterwards, and as I concluded from the evidence I heard there, it seems most probable that the operators of the act wouldn't hardly be about looking on, just after a thing of that kind occurred, and they got out of the way. And these people, while they might have sympathized, there was nothing at all to show that they had any guilty connection with the turning of the switch. On Monday, I waited again to see about some others--we had got reports from Johnstown, saying that they were satisfied--parties who told to me that they were satisfied they were not concerned in it. Finally, from time to time they were all released, having no evidence against them whatever, and that was the principal part of my business there. It kept me there several days--maybe a week--on the train. That is all I know about that. Then there was a difficulty occurred at Scranton and I went up there, and the Governor telegraphed to me while I was there, and I went to see about what to do with some--there was an alderman up there had issued a warrant, in pursuance of the report of the coroner's inquest, I think, upon the bodies of some men who had been shot in the riot, and they had pronounced all the military, I believe, participants in what they called a murder, and I started in obedience to the dispatch the same day. I arrived there, but they had done just what I was going to recommend; they had delivered themselves up to the proper authorities, habeas corpus had been issued, and the judges of the court--I think Judge Harding had them to apply. It turned out that they were either indicted, or no bills found true against them, or something of that kind. There was other difficulties of that kind occurred while we were up there, and occasionally these same police alderman--Mahon, I think his name was, in the Sixth ward of Scranton--would issue out a warrant once in awhile against certain of the military, and they would simply go and give bail, and that was the end of it. That was all the connection I had with the riots--the actual knowledge I have about it. Something about these prisoners. We found some little difficulty in keeping them up there from getting into the hands--it was evident, as the people of Scranton said, that if the warrants of this alderman were executed, and the soldiers were taken over into that Sixth ward, that is made up--if any of you know the situation of Scranton, there is a ward that is made up of miner's houses across the stream--the Lackawanna, I think likely--and they threatened if any soldier was taken over there before this alderman he would never get back alive, and they were devising ways and means to prevent any difficulty of that kind. I remained there a few days, and came back to Philadelphia, and at St. George's hotel I got an honorable discharge from military service. That is all the duties I had, except attachments, &c., which were not connected with the riot.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I wish to ask you a question: You were consulted by Governor before he left the State, as regards his absence for any length of time, whether it was policy for him to be absent and the policy pursued in his absence?
A. He spoke to me about it. There seemed to be, as I said to him, and as appeared to him, as good a prospect of peace in this State as ever there was, and he asked me what I thought about the propriety of his leaving upon a trip of that kind, and I told him I could not see any difficulty about it. That no doubt the State would go on harmoniously and all right, that it would not be a vacating of the office of the Governor. He didn't tell me anything about that I give more attention than I otherwise would during his absence, rendering any aid I could to the other authorities, to see to things. General Latta telegraphed to me that morning I speak of, the 20th, that he had a general authority to act in the Governor's absence, when the military were required, and simply telegraphed that there was trouble on the Pennsylvania railroad. He had acted, however, before that, because he had called out the troops. I recollect pretty nearly the second dispatch sent to me to Harrisburg. They were both sent within half an hour of each other. That if the civil authorities were insufficient to suppress disturbance, to maintain the peace and call out the troops, and to communicate to the Governor if he could, and if not, to suppress the riot promptly, and we would look for the authority afterwards. That is about what he had told him, and he acted upon the general authorities which the Governor had given him.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In your conversation with the Governor, was there anything about the probability of a strike on the Pennsylvania railroad?
A. No, sir; there was no apprehension of anything of that kind at the time at all, although it seemed to come pretty suddenly after that. There was nothing at all to indicate it--the Governor said nothing at all about that--he simply talked to me about his going out of the State to remain a length of time he would be gone. I forget now what it was, whether it would give any authority to have his office considered vacant or any ability or disability to act. I told him I thought not, that for the purpose of managing the State government, I thought it would be perfectly proper for him to go, that he was entitled to have that sort of recreation. Of course, none of us apprehended anything, except what might arise at any time, and he had taken the precaution, it seems, although I do not know that, to say to General Latta, that he should act for the purpose of sustaining the civil authority as they had done heretofore, or something of that kind, as I learned afterwards, but the Governor did not tell me that, so far as I remember now. I believe that was what the Governor did say.
* * * * *
Sheriff Jennings, recalled:
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. As you are a military man, I want to ask you a military question. Do you know anything about the movements of the military about Harrisburg and vicinity and county?
A. When I came here, I believe General Sigfried was in command, and all that I saw of the military I thought they would be first rate, and I felt confident they would be useful to me in case I should fail with the posse. He kept them in camp; there was no straggling, no drunkenness or anything of that kind, and the men acted and conducted themselves like soldiers.
Q. Good discipline?
A. Good discipline. I would say that the troops were under good command.
* * * * *
David Mumma, affirmed:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you reside in the city of Harrisburg?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is your profession?
A. I am a practicing attorney.
Q. State, Mr. Mumma, what knowledge you had of the conduct of the militia during the riots of last July?
A. We had no militia--no organized militia in the city until during the riots, until after the dispersal of the rioters by the sheriff's posse. A few men, two or three in number, sometimes came here in a train, evidently in order to meet their companies, and came for that purpose without organization, not more than five at one time, and the men who seemed to get up all the difficulties about the cars, immediately disarmed them and took their arms from them, and then there was no further violence exhibited to them. There were five, I think, is the highest number I saw. They had no means of resistance, as there was no organization, that was, of the military we had in the city before that.
Q. Those were men that had gathered in obedience to the call of their officers?
A. Gathered to meet their companies, came from the upper end of the county, some few from Lebanon county. They came in the trains, and they were only in squads of two or three, sometimes one alone.
Q. Were they overpowered by the mob?
A. They did not resist any, so far as I saw. Their arms were demanded, and they gave them up.
Q. How many did you see surrender their arms?
A. There may have been twenty or twenty-five, altogether.
Q. At different times?
A. At different times.
Q. Several in small squads?
A. Yes; no more than five. I did not see more than five at one time. They came from the upper end of this county. They were coming here to report.
Q. Did they surrender, because they were in sympathy, or would it have been folly for them to have resisted?
A. It would have been folly to resist, if there was any determination on the part of the men who were in the crowd to enforce the demand. I may say here, that at this time there was not much exhibition of violence. The trains were running, that is the commencement of it. They stopped none but freight trains and local passenger trains; the other trains, more especially the mail trains, were permitted to run through, and there was no violence by anybody. Everybody seemed to stand and look on, and when a train arrived, the engine and tender would immediately be boarded by about four fifths boys, and some two or three men, and the coupling would be drawn, and they would take the engine to the round-house. Shifter was allowed to run, and they would move the cars away. I may say, just here, that on inquiry, many men who were connected with the railroad shops here, men that I knew, that always said they had orders that there was a general strike pending, and they were to stop any local or freight trains, and that other trains with the mails, were to go on, and that they had no disposition to give any trouble, and frequently I was appealed to, that we should use our influence to keep the military away; that if the troops were brought on there would be violence.
Q. What class of men undertook to influence you in that direction?
A. They were men who were employés of the railroad.
Q. Railroad?
A. Railroad and other places. Our other shops were not in the matter that I know of.
Q. What class of men demanded the guns from the gathering soldiers?
A. I know but one, and he was really the principal man who took charge of the guns. He is now in the penitentiary--was convicted at our court--a man by the name of Riggle, a loafer, who does not do anything and never did a day's work when he had it. I did not see any of our men connected with the railroad demand to take any guns from the soldiers at all.
Q. It was done by the lawless class?
A. Lawless class of men, mostly strangers. I did not know them, though I know a great many of our citizens, and there was a great many strangers here that we did not know at all. In the meantime, General Sigfried had got here, and some head was put to the military part of it, and I remember of speaking to several officers not to have the men brought in the town, for fear they might be overpowered. They were all taken to the arsenal. Everybody was anxious to have the arsenal taken care of. We were constantly assured by the better class of men that the arsenal would not be interfered with unless an attempt was made to put the military in. Hence, every citizen who had any influence tried to prevail on the military officers to get the men into the arsenal without bringing them into the city, and it was so arranged. Men coming in the Lebanon Valley train got off outside of the city and marched across. They came from above, got off at Rockville, and marched across, until they had sufficient men in the arsenal to defend it, and that, I have no doubt, was a very judicious method at that time, until there was a force here to stand up against the mob, if there was any trouble.
Q. Did you have any conversation with these soldiers, after they had surrendered their arms?
A. I believe I did speak to one or two of the men. There was some men, I just said before you came, Mr. Engelbert, that they came from your town to meet their companies, and they found themselves immediately surrounded by a mob, and they had no remedy, they had to give up their arms.
Q. What reasons did they give for surrendering?
A. They said they did not see how they could make any defense or hold their arms, because they were alone, and had not found their officers, and did not know what to do.
Q. Did you find any officers?
A. Military officers?
Q. Military officers in this section of the country--on the day----
A. I cannot give dates very well--but on the day when these men were brought over from across the river, I remember that, because when I came back I was informed of the fact that they had brought some men across the river. I was driving out to some property I have out here, and at the cemetery I met a couple of boys who said there was a whole lot of Light Horses, they called them, in the town of Progress. I left the boys and thought I had better go and see. I drove out and found a portion of the company of about thirty men, cavalry, without horses, and think they had infantry--they had muskets, but I think they had their cavalry equipments. These I saw at a tavern. Shall I say how they said they came there?
Q. Yes?
A. I spoke to them, and they told me they were taken up to Altoona. They were, as they called it, run into and cut off the road, and with a large number of infantry, and they were immediately surrounded there by the mob of about two thousand persons, hooted, yelled, and used violent expressions, and occasionally, I think, throwing stones in a small way. That they were then taken out of the cars, and, while standing there, the infantry surrendered their arms. Stacked their arms, as they called it. They were kept standing quite a long while in the hot sun, until very much exhausted, and finally they were again re-loaded in a train, brought to Rockville, six miles up the river here, and then they were advised or requested to get off the train, that it was not safe for them to come into Harrisburg on account of the mob, and that they started for a walk through the country, got some refreshments from the farmers, and crossed the country, and struck this little town of Progress, two miles or two and a half miles east. They said their purpose was to strike the railroad below Harrisburg, and inquired of me whether the steel works was a good place to strike. I told them it was not desirable to strike it, nor was it a very good place, for, while the men were still doing their duty, and there was no riot, they might be in sympathy with these men, and I would not advise them to come there. I remonstrated most seriously with them not to pursue that course; but to go back to the arsenal with me, where there was about six hundred militia and infantry, and there really was no danger of any body getting hurt in any way, and that they would be protected there, and it would be very unpleasant and unfortunate if they were to go back to Philadelphia, where I believe they were from. I was asked a question whether the infantry would fight. I told them I didn't know that; but from the way things were going, and from what they told me of the surrender of half a brigade at Altoona, I would not swear that they would; but I then went to the arsenal. The arsenal is about a mile from this little town. I drove back and found Colonel Gobin, of Lebanon, was in command. Sigfried was in command, and Gobin was in command on the ground, and I told him what I had done, and asked him to get into the wagon, while I rode out to get the men to come in. We went out and had another interview with the men, and they partially promised to come in; but I told them I would send them a lot of newspapers, and so forth--they had seen no papers, and didn't know what was going on, and to what extent. I came in to take my supper, and then bought a whole lot of newspapers, and started out to take the lower route instead of the upper one, and missed that--they had just started in. I then came into the arsenal, and left them to read my newspapers, and congratulated them.
Q. How many officers were among them?
A. I think the officers were pretty much all there. I would say they were pretty much all there--the officers of the company.
Q. Were the captains and lieutenants there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were they in uniform?
A. O, yes; they were all in uniform.
Q. Their uniforms--the buttons and straps were not cut off?
A. O, no; they were all in good trim. I was somewhat amused in finding them washing their feet in a trough, when I came out there, and, under the circumstances, I thought it was a little funny. It was not so much so after all. They told me the trouble they were in. I want to say just here, there was a good deal of fault found with men who didn't go through this town in a military way. I am not one of the persons who find fault with the military in that way, and a company of soldiers without any orders is a mob--is not very good shape--and I think it is better that they didn't happen to come in just at that time. They said, however, they had no commanding officer. Their general commanding was back; the first division of Philadelphia; and they had nobody to give them orders, and they didn't know what to do, or what right they would have to come at all--didn't want to come without some authority, and gave that as a reason why they didn't.
Q. Did they have arms?
A. They had their cavalry arms.
Q. Sabers and carbines?
A. Sabers and carbines--pistols.
Q. Did they have ammunition?
A. That I did not inquire into. They had their arms in the bar-room there. I did not inquire, but I presume they had ammunition.
Q. Did they tell you they had become separated from their command?
A. As I understood it, they didn't belong to the command that they were with when they got to Altoona. General Brinton was at Harrisburg, and they belonged to his division.
Q. They were going on their way to join him?
A. I suppose they were going on to Harrisburg; but at the time when all this was going on, there was no exhibition of violence in this city, simply because there was nobody interrupting or interfering with the men who were stopping trains on Saturday evening, I think. What I mean by that is, there was no violence beyond that of stopping trains--I think on Saturday evening--I think that was when the first train was stopped in the depot. Rodgers had been interrupted, and they were very tired, and there was a great number of laborers in the cars--immense number of people were in the depot, and many of them were ladies and citizens of the State, and quite an effort was made by a number of us citizens to get that train on. When these boys, as we would call them--most of them were boys--they jumped on the tender, and when the train undertook to move out, they drew the pin. I may say, on that occasion, that a number of men connected with the railroad shops here made an appeal to me and to other citizens to get this train on, that it was not the orders that the passenger trains were to be stopped. These were outside men, boys interfering with them. Had nothing to do with it. I remember that a gentleman in Harrisburg was named who makes speeches for them, and I was asked to go and see him. Mr. McCrea finally said it was not worth while--ten or twelve attempts were made--an attempt to pull the train out, and some few men were pulled off the bumpers, and I pulled a boy off and they said I would start a riot, and they finally stopped that train, and passengers got off that night sometime.
Q. I want to ask you a question or two about those soldiers you found out there at this little village. I understand that they said that their reasons for going back were, that they were not with their commander, General Brinton, and there were no division and no brigade, at Altoona, of infantry?
A. They did not give that as their reason for coming back--but, as a reason why they did not want to engage in any active service here, because they had nobody to take the command.
Q. What reasons did they give for turning back?
A. They said the infantry surrendered their arms.
Q. At Altoona?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What infantry did they refer to. It was not any of their command that surrendered?
A. No; as I understood--who commands the center district?
Q. General Beaver's command?
A. It was one of these middle divisions of the militia. It might not have been General Beaver's, but it was up there somewhere. They were simply, as I understood it, attached to the military train to carry them west, as I understood it, and then they were again ordered into a car and run back without any desire of their own, as I understand that.
Q. How far were they run back?
A. To Rockville, about six miles to Harrisburg.
Q. And then they left there?
A. They were asked to go out. If they came to Harrisburg they would be assaulted. There was another party made a much bigger circuit and came to Linglestown. There was a large number. I didn't see them myself.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you know anything about this party of soldiers that were captured across the river here?
A. At that time I was out here in the country. I only saw when I came back, that there was a number of people going out Market street, and then I heard that they had captured some soldiers, and marched them down Market street. I didn't learn anything about them.
Adjourned to meet at the call of the chairman.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
PHILADELPHIA, Friday, March 22, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee met, at two o'clock, P.M., this day, in the St. Cloud hotel, this city, and continued taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was:
* * * * *
Robert A. Ammon, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside?
A. In Pittsburgh, when I am at home.
Q. Where are you doing business now?
A. In the city of New York.
Q. How long have you been there?
A. Since the 31st day of December.
Q. When did you leave Pittsburgh?
A. I left Pittsburgh on the 30th day of December, on the eight o'clock train.
Q. You mean December last?
A. Yes.
Q. What business were you engaged in prior to the 19th day of July, 1877?
A. I was railroading.
Q. On what road?
A. On the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago.
Q. What position did you occupy on that road?
A. I was a freight brakeman on through freight--fast freight.
Q. How long had you been acting as a freight brakeman?
A. Nearly eleven months.
Q. Where were you on the 19th day of July, when the first disturbance occurred at Pittsburgh among the railroad employés?
A. I was on the train part of the 19th, and in the city of Pittsburgh part of the day, and in the city of Allegheny part of the day.
Q. Thursday the 19th?
A. Yes.
Q. State what you saw of the strike--when it commenced there, and what information you had about it?
A. The first knowledge I had of the strike--I went up to the oil country on the 16th or 17th--I have forgotten the date--a few days prior to strike--to take a position with a friend of mine there, who I had worked for formerly. Before I left Pittsburgh, I had heard of the strike at Martinsburg, in West Virginia, but didn't pay much attention to it, as I was acquainted with the men down there, and didn't think it amounted to a row of pins. I went on up to the oil country. It was on the 18th day of July. I believe I received a telegram from a particular friend of mine that trouble was expected in Pittsburgh, and that he would like me to come down.
Q. Where were you when you received that telegram?
A. At Parker City, Armstrong county.
Q. Who sent you the telegram?
A. A railroad employé.
Q. Give us his name?
A. No; I would rather not.
Q. Very well, go on with the history?
A. He wanted me to answer quick, but I didn't answer the telegram, so I got another telegram to come down that night, sure, and I did so. I came down.
Q. To Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. What time did you arrive there?
A. Seven-thirteen, I think it is. We got in on time that morning.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The 19th?
A. Yes, I think so--the morning of the strike. I have forgotten the date. I met some of the boys on jumping off the train, and they told me what they were going to do, and asked me to go along with them; but I refused to do that, and told them I didn't think it was any of my affair at all--that, so far as the union men were concerned, I would stay with them, but I wouldn't go to the office of the superintendent of the road with them, because I was not an employé of the road. I had been discharged before that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What did they tell you they were going to do?
A. That they were going to strike.
Q. How many of them?
A. That they were all going to strike. Some friends of mine met me there, when I came down on the train.
Q. How many of those men met you?
A. I cannot say. There may have been half a dozen or a dozen of them.
Q. What class of men? What position did they hold on the railroad?
A. They were conductors and brakemen.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were there any engineers?
A. I think there were two or three engineers with them, from the Connellsville division of the Baltimore and Ohio road. I stayed there, and talked with them a while, and then went over to Allegheny. I got my breakfast and fooled around the house with my wife and baby for about an hour, and then went to bed. I was tired, as I had been up talking with the conductor of the train all the night before. After I went to bed they came over and knocked at the door, and asked my wife if I was in. She said yes, but that I was in bed. They then said that they wanted to see me, and she said they couldn't, for I was asleep. So they went away, but came back again, in the course of an hour. I heard the noise down stairs, and asked what the matter was, and she said that they wanted me to come out, that they were going out on a strike; but I refused to go with them, and gave my reasons for refusing to go.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What were those reasons?
A. These men at the house were members of the Trainmen's Union, but two or three of them I considered scabs, and didn't want to have anything to do with them. A strike was to take place on the 27th of June, when some of those men were instrumental in getting up a rumpus in the Trainmen's Union, and I didn't want to have anything to do with them. I went back to bed again, and I think I must have slept until quarter past two o'clock when five brakemen and two conductors came up to the house and told my wife that they wanted to see me. She came up and called me, and I said it is all right, if they are going to strike I would be there. They went away, and I turned over in bed, and was just going to take another nap, when my wife called and said, Bob, they are going to put No. 15 engine on the siding. I jumped up out of bed, and looked out of the window, and I could see them putting the engine in on the side track. So I then jumped into my clothing as quick as I could, and just as I got to the door five or six of them were there, and they said they wanted me to come quick, that the mayor was coming with twenty-five police. It is just a stone's throw from my house to the track, and my wife had something ready to eat, and I just swallowed a bite and went out on the track. I saw the engine standing there, and the chief of police and about twenty-five police. I jumped up on the engine, when he told me to get off the engine. I told him I wouldn't do it, and I wanted to know why I should, I told him he had no authority. Then an order was given to arrest me, but Mr. Ross, was a neighbor of mine and I told him I was a quiet, orderly citizen, and that I refused to be arrested; that I had not been guilty of any breach of the peace as I saw; but he said, Bob, you had better get off the engine, when I said I wouldn't be put off, but as the dispatcher instructed me to get off the engine I got off. I then started down to the lower end of the yard. Before I got down there the dispatcher asked me what I was going to do, and I said I was going down to see the fun. He said, you are not, you are going down to countenance the strikers. I said, Mr. Ross, I am not. He said, you are in sympathy with them, and I said I am, but I would not say one word to them. So I went down there, and got in the midst of them, and with that the chief of police and twenty-five policemen were told to disperse the men there. They wanted the men dispersed. The police commenced to circulate pretty free among the boys, and I said it was not right, and jumped up on a box car and called for them to come over to me. They all came. I saw Mayor Philips, of Allegheny, there, and they cried out to me to tell him just what they were there for, and who they were, and I did so. I explained to the chief of police and the mayor who they were and what they were going to do.
Q. What time was that?
A. About two-twenty.
Q. Thursday or Friday afternoon?
A. That was Friday. I have not got the date.
Q. You say two-twenty?
A. Yes.
Q. All this occurred on Friday?
A. Yes; all this occurred on Friday.
Q. At the Fort Wayne and Chicago depot?
A. Yes.
Q. Go on.
A. The police didn't disperse them. They couldn't get the train out, and they started to run the engine back into the round-house.
Q. Who is Mr. Ross?
A. The dispatcher of the Fort Wayne road, and Mr. Ross is the chief of police.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. He is a brother?
A. No; he is no relation to him at all. That afternoon two or three sections of freight came in, and some of us jumped up on the cars and told the boys what we were doing, and they all came right with us. They stored everything away--put everything in good shape.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What do you mean by storing things away?
A. Putting things away compactly on the tracks. To go back now to Mayor Phillips. I read his statement in the Pittsburgh Dispatch. As soon as I jumped down off the box car, Mayor Phillips sent one of his police officers over to me, who said that he would like to see me. I told him it was all right, and I walked over to where he was and spoke to him. He said that he had heard everything I had said, and I asked him if he had any fault to find with it, and he said no. I believe I told him just what we intended to do, and that he should not be alarmed about our destroying property or the safety of the city or anything of that kind. That we intended to strike and were going to strike, and thought that we had a right to strike. I asked him if I had been guilty of any breach of the peace, one way or the other, and he told me no, and that as long as I did not do anything worse, that no one could arrest me, and that I should resist if any one did attempt to arrest me. Before he went away he told me that he would leave that portion of Allegheny in my charge. Several of the boys heard what was said, and they repeated it to the others, and they told the mayor that anything I said would be carried out. I never saw Mayor Phillips after that.
Q. Who stood by during that conversation with Mayor Phillips--anybody?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you name any of the parties?
A. I would rather not, for this reason, there is an indictment hanging against me in Allegheny county, and I wrote to my attorney about this matter, and he told me that he did not want me to say anything that would have any bearing on my trial. These men I have subpoenaed as witnesses, and they are working on the road now.
Q. Go on for the present?
A. We got everything into as good shape as possible. Wherever we could get hold of the wires we used them.
Q. Do I understand you to say that you took charge of the telegraph office.
A. No; but we telegraphed wherever we could wire--we used the telegraph. They had got orders not to allow any messages to go over the wires from actual or intended strikers anywheres.
Q. Go on and relate from that time what occurred during the progress of the strike?
A. I would sooner answer questions than tell you. I cannot give the story in full, and I do not want to give it to you half. So far as I am individually concerned, I would not care; but there are other men interested, and I would not want to implicate them.
Q. How large was the crowd on Friday afternoon, when Mayor Phillips was at the depot?
A. I should judge there was in the neighborhood--railroad men there--a hundred, and two or three times as many citizens.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. On Friday?
A. Yes.
Q. Did any freight cars leave the depot or arrive at the depot that night--Friday night?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you allow any freight trains to go out after that time?
A. We did.
Q. How many?
A. None went, but we allowed them to go if they could get the men. I told Mayor Phillips distinctly, that if they could get scabs enough to go on them that I would guarantee that any man who would scab it over the road would not be hurt.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What do you mean by a scab?
A. I consider a scab when a set of men combine themselves together for a certain purpose--when a man goes back on his obligations, or, in other words, if a man will work for less wages than his fellow men, and preach before going out on a strike that he will stand up for those wages.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You call those scabs?
A. Yes.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you mean non-union men?
A. Yes; but it is not necessary that a man should be a non-union man to be a scab. What I call a scab is a man that will take an oath and go back on that oath--perjure himself.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean belong to a union and go back on the order?
A. Yes; but I say it is not necessary that a man should belong to a union. I mean a man that will turn around and work for less money.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do I understand you to say that you were willing to let trains go out if they could get the men to run them?
A. Yes; I stated that distinctly, and others there heard it.
Q. Was any attempt made to start trains?
A. They called on every man on the road, and every man refused to go out.
Q. Did you or the party with you interfere with trains going out in any way?
A. No.
Q. You were the leader of the party on the Fort Wayne and Chicago road?
A. I was supposed to be.
Q. Did you interfere with the men who wanted to go out in any way?
A. No.
Q. Did you try to persuade the men not to go out or to run their trains?
A. At what time?
Q. At any time during the progress of the strike or previous to the strike?
A. Undoubtedly, I did. I was a member of the Trainmen's Union--I was the head of it--I mean the union. We said that if they did not give us our wages we would not work.
Q. On Friday, did you try to persuade any men not to go out?
A. Directly?
Q. Yes?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Did any of the strikers?
A. I would rather not answer that question.
Q. It is a fair question. Did any of them try to persuade men not to run their trains?
A. They did through moral suasion. They talked to them kindly and pleasantly. They did not threaten them or anything of that kind.
Q. No threats were made?
A. No.
Q. And no attempt at violence was made?
A. We did not try to bulldoze anybody.
Q. During Friday night and during the day, Saturday, you were masters of the situation there in Allegheny City? That part of the city was placed in your care?
A. Yes.
Q. How large was the crowd during Saturday night?
A. It was large. It would be pretty hard to tell. Sometimes it was a pretty big crowd, and sometimes it was not so big.
Q. How many actual strikers were there?
A. They were all there. All the brakemen and firemen were there anyhow.
Q. How large was the number of actual strikers collected together there during Friday and Saturday and Sunday--taking in those days?
A. From one hundred and fifty to three hundred.
Q. Did you learn that troops were expected to arrive from Erie or from Meadville?
A. Yes.
Q. On Saturday and Saturday night?
A. Yes.
Q. State what was done to prevent those troops from coming in--what measures the strikers adopted, if any.
A. I believe they let them come. I do not know why General Huidekoper did not come.
Q. Was it arranged among yourselves to let them come in?
A. I believe they could have come as far as Allegheny City.
Q. Did not the strikers send a party down to the lower end of the yard, or below the depot, to intercept any train of troops that might be coming in?
A. Some people did go down. I suppose they just walked down that way to see how things were going.
Q. Was it not agreed that no troops should be allowed to arrive?
A. I do not see how they were going to stop the troops coming to Allegheny City, unless they threw them off the track.
Q. Was not that the arrangement--to throw them off the track to prevent their arrival?
A. No.
Q. Did not a party come down armed to prevent the troops from coming in?
A. No; they did not. Men were stationed as far as Sewickley. I suppose some had guns or revolvers.
Q. Strikers?
A. Men in sympathy with the strikers.
Q. What were they stationed along there for?
A. I suppose they wanted to know what was coming up along the road, or something of that kind. We did not know what was going to happen. They thought that maybe some soldiers might be coming up along the road. We would have known it then if the soldiers had come. They could not have got to Homewood unless we would have known it.
Q. Why?
A. We knew perfectly that No. 18 was carrying signals for the southward. It is the Erie night express, due in Allegheny at eleven o'clock.
Q. Who stationed those men along the road at Sewickley?
A. I suppose they walked down themselves.
Q. Who stationed them there? Who gave them orders to go there and occupy those positions?
A. I do not know that anybody gave them orders to occupy positions along the road, or to fire into trains, or anything of that kind. Men were sent down the road to watch everything.
Q. Sent by the strikers, were they?
A. Yes.
Q. What were they to watch--what instructions were they given?
A. If the troops were coming up we wanted to know something about it. We did not have engines to fire up and the water had run out, and so those men were stationed down there. Some had arms and some had not. If the troops came up and disembarked at Sewickley, or east of Sewickley, we would know it, by their discharging their pieces, that the troops had disembarked.
Q. They were to fire off their pieces as a signal?
A. Yes; to let us know what the troops were doing.
Q. Was it arranged that they should prevent the trains from coming in?
A. The calculation was to let the trains come right up to Strawberry lane.
Q. Through the Fort Wayne depot?
A. It is below--at the lower end of the yard.
Q. That is where the larger portion of the strikers were?
A. It was head-quarters.
Q. Your intrenchments were there?
A. There were intrenchments there.
Q. What did you intend to do, then, in case the troops came up to Strawberry lane?
A. We proposed to interview them before they got to Strawberry lane.
Q. How interview them?
A. We proposed to get on the train at Wood run, about two miles below there.
Q. How many were to get aboard the train there?
A. About three.
Q. For what purpose?
A. To see the commanding officer there and have a little talk with him and explain matters to him.
Q. What did you intend to do in case the troops arrived?
A. We proposed to dance in case the soldiers played the music, that is all about it.
Q. Did you propose to fight the soldiers?
A. No, sir; we did not, but we did not propose to be shot down like dogs by any men.
Q. Were you armed?
A. We were.
Q. With what kind of arms?
A. There were so many different kinds that I cannot enumerate them.
Q. Enumerate some of them?
A. Well, improved needle guns, and shot guns, and rifles, and revolvers--things of that kind.
Q. Where did you get your arms?
A. At different places.
Q. Name some of the places?
A. Pittsburgh and Allegheny.
Q. At what particular places did you get them?
A. We got some of them on Sixth street, Pittsburgh.
Q. At whose establishment, or store?
A. We did not get them out of a store.
Q. Where did you get them?
A. I was not along with them when they got them.
Q. State if you know where you got them?
A. I cannot state that, because I did not see them, I only heard so. They got them out of a wagon, that is all I know.
Q. You say from a wagon?
A. Or bus.
Q. Did you get any anywhere else?
A. Yes.
Q. Where?
A. In Allegheny city.
Q. At what point?
A. Not far away from the suspension bridge.
Q. Go on and state all the particulars?
A. If it was myself alone I would not care.
Q. You need not name individuals?
A. If I was to tell you where those men got them, you could find out who was there. I lay in prison three months because I would not tell that, and I do not propose to tell it now.
Q. But you say you had arms?
A. Yes; given to us by citizens.
Q. Of Pittsburgh?
A. Yes; and Allegheny. I was offered two hundred stand of arms more than I had.
Q. By citizens?
A. Yes; and two very prominent citizens of Allegheny. One of them has testified before this honorable committee. He offered to furnish a hundred stand of arms, and told me----
Q. Do you mean Mayor Phillips?
A. No.
Q. Have you any objections to stating who offered you the arms. It is a matter of importance, and you have made an oath----
A. I know that, but I would rather not answer the question.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. When were those arms offered?
A. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Q. But they were offered for the purpose of keeping the peace, were they not? You had promised to keep order?
A. I did, undoubtedly, promise that to Mayor Phillips, and my action shows that I was a quiet and peaceable citizen.
Q. But were not those arms offered for the purpose of keeping the peace?
A. Nothing was said about that at all, sir. Nothing was said about it at all.
Q. But those arms were not given you to resist the troops?
A. Yes, they were; some of them.
Q. You say that the citizens gave you those arms to resist the troops?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did those two prominent citizens?
A. No, sir; they did not.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What did they give you the arms for?
A. Nothing was said.
Q. What did these two prominent citizens offer you the arms for?
A. One of them spoke for himself, and mentioned another prominent citizen who would also furnish arms.
Q. What day was that?
A. I won't be positive--it was either Saturday evening or Sunday evening--no, I am sure it was Sunday evening.
Q. What was the conversation about--in what connection did he offer you those arms?
A. The way it came about was this. He came over to Allegheny to the telegraph office, and asked some man outside where Mr. Ammon was, and he said inside the office. He asked if I would see him. I knew him by reputation, and I met him in the private telegraph office--he came in there. He told me he would like to have ten minutes of my time. He then sat down, and then asked me to give him the wages that each man was paid on the road--brakemen, firemen, engineers, and conductors. I sat down and talked with him awhile, and gave him those figures. Then he asked me whether the majority of the railroad men were single men or married men, and I told him they were married men. And he said he could not blame the men for striking, and that he hoped and prayed they would stand out like men, but not be guilty of any violence, and that as long as we did that we would have the support of every citizen of Allegheny county. And he said that if we wanted any assistance or any help, that he would give both money and arms--he said I will furnish a hundred stand of arms, and I know another prominent citizen who told me that he would also furnish arms. I thanked him, and my attention was called in another direction.
Q. Did he mention the name of the other citizen?
A. He did.
Q. Now we would like to have the names of those individuals?
A. I have no objection to giving them to the committee privately, but I don't want them to be known.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You said if the soldiers fiddled, you proposed to dance?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you intended, if the soldiers pretended to sustain good order, to resist them?
A. In the first place, our object----
Q. The question is a straight one?
A. I will give it to you straight. We proposed to treat the commanding officer with all the respect in the world due to his position. We were perfectly well aware that the chief executive of the State was out of the State, and we did not think that he could depute his powers to any one in the State. So we would want to know where he got his orders from, and if he got them from a railroad magnate, we did not propose to pay any attention to him.
Q. But you said if the soldiers fiddled, you proposed to dance?
A. Yes.
Q. Then if they proposed to maintain order, you proposed to resist them--answer yes or no?
A. I refuse to answer the question in that way.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. If the soldiers undertook to disperse the crowd assembled there, did the strikers intend to resist?
A. I did for one, undoubtedly. I would rather have died right there, before I would have budged an inch.
Q. Was it talked of--was it understood that you, as a body, would resist?
A. I don't think there was a man there but what would have gone to just what I led him to.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What do you mean by saying if the commanding officer had his orders from a railroad magnate, you intended to do thus and so?
A. What do you mean?
Q. To resist, I understood you to say?
A. No; we proposed if General Huidekoper came to Allegheny, to go and interview him and explain the situation. We were going to ask him the question as citizens of the Commonwealth, for we looked upon it we had that right; if he had his orders from the chief executive or from Governor Hartranft; if he had, we would recognize him, if he had not, we did not propose to recognize him any more than anybody else. We proposed to treat him as a rioter, for we did not count ourselves as rioters, for if the mob had come we would have given the mob the best we had.
Q. Then you would have resisted in that case?
A. If he did not have authority, undoubtedly.
Q. But suppose he had authority?
A. Then we would have recognized it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do I understand you to say that you would have resisted if the soldiers had undertaken to disperse you?
A. We looked at it this way: the Governor was out of the State, and we had our reasons for thinking he had not got his orders from the Governor, so we proposed to see who he got his orders from.
Q. If he had his orders from the Governor or the commander-in-chief, then you would have obeyed his orders and dispersed?
A. Yes, if he had his orders from the Governor. That was the only authority we recognized, and we knew he was out of the State.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you take advantage of his absence in this strike?
A. No, we did not.
Q. But you were well aware he was out of the State?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it your impression that no other man in the State of Pennsylvania could order out the military?
A. That was our impression of it, yes.
Q. It certainly would be a bad fix if there was nobody else that could order out the military?
A. All right; we knew the Lieutenant Governor was here.
Q. You did not take advantage of the Governor's absence, then?
A. No; we thought we had some rights that the railroad men were bound to respect, but they did not seem to respect them. They treated us like mad dogs.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When was the Trainmen's Union organized?
A. On Saturday evening, June 2, 1877.
Q. Were you a member of the body?
A. I was the first man that ever took an oath in it.
Q. What was the purpose--what were the objects of that Union?
A. The purpose and object of the Trainmen's Union was to get the trainmen--composing engineers, conductors, brakemen, and firemen, on the three grand trunk lines of the country--into one solid body. We knew that a reduction over the three grand trunk lines was going to take place, and we thought if we could combine into one body all the men, at a certain hour on a certain day, if the railroad magnates did not accede to our demands we would strike, and leave the trains standing just where they were, and go home. That was the object of the Trainmen's Union.
Q. Do you know how far and wide it extended?
A. Yes.
Q. Please state?
A. It extended over the Baltimore and Ohio, the road from Pittsburg to Baltimore, the Fort Wayne road from Pittsburg to Chicago, and I think the last division was organized at Valparaiso, or Fort Wayne. It was on the Northern Central and its leased lines, and all the leased lines of the Pennsylvania company were in it.
Q. Did it extend on the Erie road, and to the Atlantic and Great Western?
A. Yes.
Q. Over the whole length of the road?
A. I do not know.
Q. Where did it originate?
A. In Allegheny City.
Q. What arrangements, if any, were made by your organization for a strike?
A. When we thought we were strong enough so we could control at least three-fourths of the men of those roads, then we thought we could bring matters to a point--we could all quit. We knew they could not find enough green men to run the roads, and we thought that the citizens would look at it in the same light as we did--that the citizens would not care to trust their lives to green men--that the people traveling on the roads would not trust their lives to green men; and we thought by all going off and stopping the traffic on the roads that they would give us back our ten per cent.
Q. It was not organized until after the ten per cent. reduction was made on the 1st of June?
A. No; but it was talked about before that.
Q. How long before that was it talked about?
A. I believe the notice was stuck up by the Pennsylvania Company about the 26th or 27th day of May--somewhere in that neighborhood--and from that time on it was talked about.
Q. What led the men to talk about it at that time?
A. The notice was stuck up, that there would be a reduction.
Q. That was the first that called the attention of the men to it?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any day set for the strike by the Trainmen's Union?
A. The 27th day of June, at twelve o'clock.
Q. State the extent of this strike as it was expected to take place on the 27th of June? How many men had you, who had agreed to strike? How wide was it to extend over the country?
A. I have just mentioned over the different lines.
Q. Had they all agreed to strike on that day?
A. Yes. Three or four days before the 27th of June--the 27th day of June was a Wednesday--the Sunday night before, that is, the 24th, forty men were sent out from Pittsburgh, so if they shut off the wires from us, we could notify the different divisions if we could not get telegrams to them in time, that if anything turned up, that it was ordered, and that that was the day set.
Q. At what hour?
A. At twelve o'clock, noon, June the 27th.
Q. To what points were those men sent?
A. All over the different trunk lines.
Q. To notify all the different lodges or divisions?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they so notify them?
A. They did, I believe, so far as they could get. But a hitch occurred before the 27th.
Q. What was it?
A. That was a Sunday night. On Monday night, the Pan-Handle division had a meeting, and most of the members from the other divisions were there, and it was decided on Monday night, when delegates from all the divisions around were there, that the strike should take place on the 27th, and on Tuesday night, all the members of the divisions around there were to come to Allegheny, to the usual place of meeting, and have another talk with the boys there. They met there, when three or four of them kicked up a rumpus, and it came near ending in a row. Some of the men who were the first to go into the thing--who were the first to propose doing anything, were the very men to kick, and two of them that night, went out on No. 11, west, and took the news out west, that there would be no strike the next day. We were all ready on the 27th, at twelve o'clock, noon, to go out on a strike, but we got telegrams from everywhere, asking if we were going on a strike, or whether we were not going on a strike. So the thing got mixed up, and they stopped the telegraph wires, and we couldn't get a word over. We had some trains stopped at Pittsburgh, but I had them all moved out on the track again, as I thought we had better let the thing go, than make a failure of it, and wait for some better time--a better organization, or some time when we could get things into better shape.
Q. What became of those men, sent out to notify the various divisions?
A. They beat their way back again, I guess, from all over the country to Pittsburgh.
Q. Did the Trainmen's Union break up at that time, or did they continue their organization?
A. They never had a meeting after the 27th, that I know of, in Pittsburgh.
Q. Did they at any other point?
A. Yes; the Trainmen's Union is still in existence.
Q. Was there any time arranged afterwards for a strike?
A. No; no time was agreed upon, but all labored under the impression that the bubble had grown so large, that it would have to burst sooner or later.
Q. Was there any pre-arranged plan, by which any strike was to take place on the 19th of July?
A. No, there was not. There was some little talk about it, if the railroad company would do so and so, that they would kick.
Q. Do what?
A. Put on double-headers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What do you mean by kick?
A. Not stand it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Strike, do you mean?
A. Yes.
Q. Then there was no pre-arranged plan for that strike on the 19th?
A. There was no pre-arranged plan.
Q. Was it talked over?
A. Not on that day; but just as soon as they put on double-headers they didn't propose to submit to it, as they thought seventeen cars were enough for the men to take care of.
Q. These double-headers were only confined to the Pennsylvania Central?
A. Yes.
Q. They didn't extend over any other roads leading into Pittsburgh?
A. No.
Q. Was it known to the men on any other roads that the men on the Pennsylvania Central were going to strike?
A. I suppose they knew that they had their sympathy.
Q. I understood you to say that you left Pittsburgh the day before the strike?
A. No; I left it about the 16th.
Q. Did you know any thing about it then, or understand that there would be a strike then?
A. Yes; I remarked after the 27th day of June that I was positive there would be a strike, sooner or later--that the thing would have to come to a head itself.
Q. Did they say to you, or did you understand from any employés on the Pennsylvania Central road, that there would be a strike on the 19th?
A. No one knew that they were going to strike on that day.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Then no time was set?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was it understood that when the order was given to run the double-headers that they would strike?
A. It was understood that just as soon as they put on double-headers they wouldn't run them. The men couldn't stand it.
Q. Did you know any thing about the strike at Martinsburg?
A. Yes; I heard of it.
Q. Before it took place?
A. No; not before it took place. I knew of it as soon as it did take place.
Q. Was there any general understanding that a strike would take place at the time the strike broke out at Martinsburg?
A. No; the understanding we had of this thing--our object in organizing the Trainmen's Union was, that the Pennsylvania Company would make a reduction on the first of June of ten per cent., and that, if their employés submitted to it, that the New York Central would follow about the 1st of July, and if their employés submitted to it--they had two roads, and had pooled their earnings--they would make a reduction on the 15th of July on the Baltimore and Ohio. They thought if they didn't get a strike before the 15th day of July, then the Pennsylvania road and these other roads would get so used to it, or that they would get us so frightened that we would have the idea knocked out of us, if they could run their traffic over those roads. They were not going to make a reduction over two trunk lines at one time.
Q. Did all that happen?
A. No; there was a reduction on the Pennsylvania on the 1st of June, and on Vanderbilt's road on the 1st of July, and on the Baltimore and Ohio on the 15th or 16th, and on the 15th was the strike.
Q. Did you have any communication with the men at Martinsburg before they struck?
A. I had some friends down there, and I used to hear from them once in a while.
Q. About the strike--this particular strike that took place at Martinsburg--did your union communicate with them? Was it understood or arranged between you for that strike on the 16th?
A. No; although they said that just as soon as they got the reduction they were going to strike.
Q. I understand you to say it was the double-headers, or the order to run them, that caused the strike on the 16th, at Pittsburgh?
A. Yes; because it was the wrong time to put on the double-headers, just following the strike at Martinsburg. That just started the whole thing.
Q. This Trainmen's Union was organized, you say, for the purpose of protecting yourself?
A. For protecting our own interests.
Q. What had you to complain of at the time of organizing the union?
A. The ten per cent. reduction. We thought we were getting little enough money.
Q. Had you anything else to complain of?
A. Yes; we had something a little worse than the reduction. That was all right. If they saw fit to reduce, and could get men to work at their rate, all right. The officials of the road, and Mr. Scott, all treated us all right. It was only the little under-officials who treated us like dogs. I was told that if I voted for a certain man I would get discharged off the road. I wanted to vote for a neighbor of mine.
Q. By whom were you told that?
A. By a petty under-official, the assistant day dispatcher.
Q. Had you anything to complain of, except this ten per cent. reduction?
A. Not on our road--not on the Fort Wayne road.
Q. Had they on the Pennsylvania Central, before the order was issued to run the double-headers?
A. No; I don't believe they had.
Q. That was the only thing you had to complain of?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any negotiations with the magnates of the road in regard to that?
A. Yes; we appointed a committee to wait on them, and talk with them, and try to get the thing settled up; but we couldn't reach them with a forty-foot pole. We tried everything with reference to avoiding a strike.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. How long were you on the road?
A. About eleven months, I guess.
Q. Had there been any talk of striking before--during those eleven months?
A. No.
Q. Were any committees appointed to wait on the officials?
A. That was when we heard of the ten per cent. reduction.
Q. Had you any grievances before?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. It was arranged then by your union that you would strike in case of a reduction?
A. That was what we organized for.
Q. Do you claim the right at all times to strike as a body? Do you claim that it is one of the rights that you have?
A. I claim that every free born American citizen, if necessary, has the right to quit work if he wants to. That is what I call striking--quitting work.
Q. Doing anything more?
A. We have no right to destroy property.
Q. Do you claim it as a right to interfere with those who want to work?
A. It is a right to use mere suasion. If I were to see you rushing on headlong on the breakers, and I can stop you, I would do so.
Q. Do you claim that you have a right to assemble in crowds or groups upon the property of the railroad company?
A. If that is where we are employed; yes.
Q. But when you strike, you are no longer in the employ of the railroad company?
A. No; not when we have once struck.
Q. Then after you have struck you don't claim that you have the right to assemble there?
A. Until we are ordered off?
Q. But when ordered off, have you the right to refuse to go?
A. It depends greatly upon who orders you off.
Q. When ordered off by an official of the railroad company?
A. If I am there for any unlawful purpose, I ought to go, but if I am not there for any unlawful purpose, and if I run against a man who wants to show fight or ride a big horse, I don't think I have any business to go, if I want to stay.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. But do you say that you have the right to go on another man's property and stay there if he wants you to go away?
A. I don't recognize any one like a day dispatcher. It is not his business.
Q. But it is his business to keep the track clear?
A. No; it is not.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You did assemble at yard of the Fort Wayne and Chicago road, one hundred and fifty or two hundred of you?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you ordered off--ordered to leave or disperse?
A. No; directly we were not.
Q. By any one belonging to the road?
A. The dispatcher told the chief of police to disperse this mob, that they were not employés of the Fort Wayne road, but rioters and loafers from Pittsburgh, and wouldn't allow their men to work.
Q. You resisted this? You refused to go?
A. I don't like a man to call me a liar.
Q. Did you refuse to go?
A. No one told me to go off the property.
Q. Didn't the policemen tell you to go?
A. No.
Q. Didn't they undertake to disperse you?
A. They got in amongst us, but they didn't push or tell us to go off.
Q. But you refused to go?
A. We didn't understand it that way.
Q. Was it not your duty to disperse when the policemen requested you, having been instructed so to do by the officials of the railroad company?
A. The police didn't tell us to disperse.
Q. You knew what they came among you for, and what commands had been given to them by the officers of the railroad company?
A. I heard the dispatcher say, disperse this lot of loafers and rioters from Pittsburgh. I don't know that he spoke to me.
Q. Did he refer to the crowd?
A. I don't know of any loafers or bummers in that crowd.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you ordered to disperse by anybody?
A. No; the dispatcher didn't speak to us, but to the chief of police, that these men are a lot of rioters from Pittsburgh, and he wanted them off the property.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you consider you had the right to take that property and pack it away on the side tracks?
A. I thought I did perfectly right.
Q. If it was in danger of being destroyed?
A. Everybody appeared to be excited, and they had lost their heads, so that you couldn't get them to do anything. There were some passenger and freight cars, and a lot of cars loaded with live stock standing on one track, and nobody appeared to know what to do with them. People came to me and asked what to do, from even the dispatcher himself--he looked to me.
Q. But after you had refused to work, had you any right to interfere with that property?
A. We didn't interfere with the property.
Q. Had you any right to do anything with it?
A. If we were asked to do it we had.
Q. Had you any right to interfere with that property in any way?
A. Yes.
Q. You understand what I mean by my question? Do you not think it was your duty, after having refused to work, to leave the premises entirely and go away?
A. That depends on circumstances.
Q. But if you were working for a man and stopped work, or he turned you off, have you any right to remain around?
A. That depends a great deal on whether he wants me around or not.
Q. But have you any right to interfere with his property in any way, under any circumstances?
A. I would think I was a very foolish man. If my property was in danger I would like him to come and lend a hand.
Q. I didn't ask any question about the property being in danger?
A. We didn't interfere with the property in any way or manner.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Had the commander of the military refused an interview with you, or the party you represent, what would have been the consequences--what was your determination?
A. I don't know as we figured that far ahead.
Q. But you must have had some plan, sir?
A. I didn't happen to meet him, therefore, I cannot tell you.
Q. I want to know what was your determination?
A. That is something nobody knows.
Q. I insist upon an answer?
A. It is a question I cannot answer.
Q. This is the question. Had the commander of the military refused to have an interview with you or the party you represent, what was your determination--what did you intend to do?
A. That would have depended greatly on circumstances. I don't know what we would have done.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you intend to resist the militia?
A. If you or any other man or the militia had raised a gun to shoot me, I undoubtedly would have resisted.
Q. But answer yes or no, then explain after answering the question?
A. What is the question?
Q. Did you intend to resist the militia had they attempted to disperse the crowd?
A. I will have to answer the question yes and no. If they had come with the requisite authority from the Governor of the State and ordered us to disperse, undoubtedly we would have obeyed them. If they had authority from the Governor of the State, I, for one, would have walked away.
Q. But suppose they had authority from General Latta?
A. I didn't recognize him.
Q. You didn't recognize him?
A. I didn't at that time.
Q. Certainly you couldn't have been a law-abiding citizen if you didn't?
A. I didn't at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Then you intended to use your own judgment as to whether the militia were there lawfully or unlawfully?
A. I look upon General Huidekoper as a gentleman, and don't think he would lie.
Q. Suppose he had said he was there on authority from the Governor?
A. I told you I would have gone off the premises and walked away. If he had told me it was none of my business, I would have told him I would make it my business. If he had told me he was there by authority of some railroad official, I would have told him that the best thing he could do for his own and for our sake, would be to take the back track, and go away.
Q. Did you see the daily papers of that week?
A. No; I don't believe I did.
Q. Did you see a published proclamation of the Governor's?
A. I don't believe I did.
Q. Did you know a proclamation had been issued?
A. I had heard of it.
Q. Commanding all citizens to disperse?
A. I had heard of it, but I didn't read it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Then you and your party were to be the judges, whether or not General Latta had authority or not?
A. We were open to conviction. We thought we were endowed with a little common sense.
Q. I don't doubt it for a moment--not at all. But you were to be the judges whether General Latta had authority or not?
A. The way I came to get under that impression--an attorney, the first day of the strike, who was around there when this question came up about the Governor being out of the State, said that the troops or military could not be ordered out, because the Governor was not here.
Q. Give us his name?
A. I cannot give it.
Q. I insist upon it?
A. I refuse to answer the question.
Q. If the committee insists upon an answer you certainly will have to answer, because you have sworn to tell the truth?
A. Well, I well give the committee the names of any of these parties in confidence, but I don't care about telling their names to the world. I am perfectly willing to give them to the committee in confidence. I don't want to keep anything back, but I don't want to tell tales on anybody else.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did your association have an attorney employed--the Trainmen's Union?
A. Two or three were around there, sort of acting as though they were employed, but we never knew who employed them.
Q. Did you consult with them?
A. No; they came there and gave us advice.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Gratuitously?
A. That is about it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were they ever paid any fees?
A. Not that I know of.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they practicing attorneys at the bar?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You continued to keep up the strike there, and hold possession of the railroad property, until the arrival of the Governor of the State, did you not?
A. I believe we were on the premises when the Governor arrived.
Q. And had possession of the property of the railroad?
A. I don't know. The property was all lying there. No one was holding it?
Q. But didn't you guard it. Didn't you exercise care of it, and didn't you afterwards deliver it over to the railroad officials?
A. Yes; we told them that we wouldn't have anything more to do with it, that they must get somebody else to watch it.
Q. Who did you deliver it to?
A. A man I did not recognize came down and took possession for Mayor Phillips or his police.
Q. You surrendered the property to him?
A. No, sir; I did not, but to the officers of the road.
Q. What day was that?
A. That was the evening the Governor came in.
Q. The evening the Governor arrived?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any interview with the Governor on his arrival?
A. Yes.
Q. Tell us what that was?
A. I had a little talk with him and passed the compliments of the day, and asked him to come out and say a few words to the boys, and he came out on the back platform and said something to them. We then passed on to the round-house, where there was a crowd of some five or six hundred, and he spoke a few words to them, and then went on to the city of Allegheny, where the citizens met him with a carriage and took him to Pittsburgh, by the suspension bridge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you telegraph to him?
A. I did.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the nature of those telegrams?
A. Some of them are part of history. I telegraphed along the line not to interfere with the train he was on, so as not to get him angry with us, and I telegraphed him guaranteeing him a safe passage to Allegheny city.
Q. You had the power to give him a safe passage through?
A. My name was good enough at that time.
Q. Over the length of the Fort Wayne and Chicago road?
A. Yes.
Q. You controlled the road at that time?
A. It appeared that they were not going to recognize any man's orders but mine.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. But they got obstreperous at last on your hands?
A. Towards the last.
Q. Didn't you go to a meeting with some citizens to a hall?
A. Yes.
Q. And there they thought you were taking too much authority on you?
A. They thought I was going back on them. At least a scab did. He supposed I was misrepresenting things at that time. At least I think so now. They were starving, and wanted coal, and I ordered a provision train and a coal train out, and one fellow wanted to kill me right off.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. So they struck on you?
A. Yes; this was the following Thursday. I had not been down from the Tuesday night when the Governor arrived until this afternoon of Thursday.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What means did you take to enforce your orders after they struck on you?
A. They did not strike on me.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Didn't they refuse to obey your orders?
A. I had ceased to exist at that time. That was on the Tuesday night, and this meeting was on Thursday afternoon. Because I would not come up, I suppose they felt sick and sore, and thought I was trying to sell them out.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Those citizens you talked about who offered you arms, were not those men the ones who went with you to the meeting?
A. Neither one of them was there.
Q. Didn't they ask you to protect this property, and after a conversation with you, didn't you agree to go with them to this meeting and talk to the rioters?
A. There were no rioters on the Fort Wayne road.
Q. Or the strikers?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't you promise them to keep order, and in consideration of that didn't they agree to give you the arms to keep off the mob in case any party came to burn the town?
A. No, sir; this was on the Thursday after the fire. I was at no meeting from the 27th day of June until this Thursday.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was there no understanding between you and the strikers on the Pennsylvania road during this time, after you got back to Allegheny City and took charge of things--were you acting in concert in preventing trains from going out?
A. I don't know that anything particular of that kind was agreed upon. Of course we talked over things of that kind.
Q. But you had communications with the parties who were striking on the Pennsylvania road?
A. Yes; men were going back and forth all the time.
Q. Was there anybody over there that had control of the strike there or who was looked up to as a leader or recognized as such?
A. There were some three or four of them. The man supposed to be the leader showed the white feather.
Q. Who was that?
A. Samuel Muckle, the president of the Pan Handle division.
Q. He was supposed to be the leader in the start?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was their leader after he showed the white feather?
A. I don't know, but I think Hice. He was at Torrens station.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How did he show the white feather?
A. He was a man who didn't live up to what he said he would do.
Q. In what respect?
A. He didn't live up to what he said he would do at the meeting.
Q. What did he agree to do in the first place?
A. He agreed to stand by the boys.
Q. What were the boys to do?
A. If the boys went out on a strike, Muckle was to stand by them.
Q. And prevent the running of trains?
A. The understanding was that every man was to quit work and go away, but not to prevent the running of trains. Muckle was discharged, and he tried to get a job in the employ of the road. His object in getting the men to strike was to get them out and then come in and scab it.
Q. That is, come in and offer his services to the railroad?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. But were communications going on between you and the leaders of the Pennsylvania road--the leaders of the strike? Was there any concerted movement or action between you?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Give us a definition of your idea of a strike. What is generally understood by railroad men, or what did the Trainmen's Union understand by a strike?
A. So far as the Trainmen's Union was concerned, we considered by a strike that every man on the three grand trunk lines should go home when the hour came--just leave his train standing there.
Q. You mean refuse to work?
A. Yes.
Q. Nothing more?
A. That was our understanding.
Q. But you were not to prevent other men from working?
A. We had an understanding if a man was not a union man to coax him off if we could.
Q. But if he would not be coaxed?
A. Then to leave him stay. We considered that his own conscience would be enough for him.
Q. But you were not to try to drive him off?
A. No; a man who is a scab has a hard enough time of it. He has a hard time enough of it to make his life unbearable to him.
Q. Was any violence used that you know of to prevent trains from running on the Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad?
A. No, sir; none was used. I would not have allowed, so far as I was concerned.
Q. By what authority did you assume charge of the Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad?
A. I think I assumed authority of the Fort Wayne from telegrams I received from Mr. Layng, who is the general manager from Pittsburgh to Chicago.
Q. What were those telegrams?
A. I was asked to take charge of the trains and engines, and to move them to places of safety.
Q. Have you those dispatches?
A. I have.
Q. Have you them here?
A. No.
Q. Can you produce them?
A. I can, sir.
Q. Will you produce them?
A. Not in this city.
Q. Where will you produce them?
A. I will produce them anywhere where I can get them. I asked to have them sent here, but could not get them.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Would this strike on the Fort Wayne and Chicago road have occurred if the strike on the Pennsylvania road had not occurred at that time?
A. That is a pretty hard question to answer.
Q. From your information--from what you know of the circumstances and the men engaged in it?
A. I have not thought over that, and really I cannot give an answer.
Q. Do you know whether the men on the Fort Wayne and Chicago road were making any preparations for a strike distinct from any strike upon the Pennsylvania railroad?
A. Some of them were and some of them were not.
Q. At this particular time that the strike occurred?
A. Really, I have never thought the matter over, and I cannot answer that question, because I have not thought it over in that light at all. They may have and they may not.
Q. You say that the main cause of the strike on the Pennsylvania road was the running of double-headers?
A. That is my impression.
Q. The cause of the strike upon the Fort Wayne road at that time was what?
A. Several things combined. I think it was the abuse of power by the under officials more than anything else.
Q. That and the ten per cent.?
A. Yes; that was pretty hard to swallow.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. I understood you to say in talking to some citizens you had given some figures as to the wages that could be earned after the ten per cent. reduction. Can you give those figures to the committee now?
A. I didn't state the amount that could be earned, but the amount they were paying--brakeman, $1 45.
Q. Per day?
A. Per trip, that is called a day.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. How many hours?
A. The shortest run on the road was seven hours and twenty-five minutes. The longest run was eight hours and thirty-five minutes. Firemen the same as brakemen. Conductors, first class, $2 12; second class, $1 89 or $1 91, I forget which. Engineers--I don't remember the classified pay--first class, three dollars and eleven or twelve cents. That had a great deal to do with the strike--the classification--so far as the engineers were concerned.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many days could you average per week?
A. The year around, or at that time?
Q. At that time?
A. I think the month that I was discharged I drew twenty-nine dollars and some cents--I don't know what.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. As brakeman?
A. Yes. I had an income of forty dollars a month besides that, and it was the only way I could live.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you make all the time?
A. I believe I did. I believe I lost only one trip. My impression is I did lose one trip.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was not the amount you could earn governed by the amount of business doing by the road at that time--if the freight shipments were large you all got work?
A. We all had work any how. We all came in our turn.
Q. But the amount of money you made depended on the amount of the business of the road?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You put in your six days a week--work a week at $1 40?
A. I undoubtedly worked six days.
Q. Every week?
A. Not at that time. We were not averaging six days' work at that time.
Q. Were you prior to that time?
A. Really I have forgot; but the pay was running very poor. I think the business was good in January and February, March and April, but I think after that time it was very slack.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How many days did you make in any one month?
A. In the month of January I made forty-four days.
Q. By over work?
A. Yes.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did not the officials, when you sent your committee to them, didn't they talk over this matter with you?
A. Before the strike?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir.
Q. Didn't you send a committee down to Philadelphia to see Mr. Scott?
A. Of engineers, I believe. We heard what the engineers were doing, and got enough of the engineers. They generally patched things up for themselves. They didn't look after anything else. It was about the time of taking the ten per cent. off.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. What position did you hold in Trainmen's Union?
A. I don't know that I held any position. I was appointed to organize the unions, and had unlimited powers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. By whom?
A. By what we called--there were members appointed from each division, and they constituted a sort of grand lodge. The division I belonged to was first organized. That is where I got my power from. They sent me right out. It was a Saturday night, and I left Pittsburgh the following Monday, June 4.
Q. Who organized the first lodge?
A. I was the first man to take an oath. I guess all took a hand in it.
Q. Were you president of that lodge?
A. There was no president of that lodge at that time.
Q. Were you chief of that lodge?
A. I suppose I was that night.
Q. What did they call the chief of that lodge--what name?
A. The grand organizer.
Q. Then by delegations from other lodges, you were appointed to organize lodges throughout the country?
A. Our lodge gave me authority, and as we formed lodges, they sent in delegations to form a grand lodge, and they confirmed the action of our lodge.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Who paid your expenses going around?
A. The boys.
Q. As a union or a society, or did the boys contribute what they saw fit?
A. All the money I ever got, I got from the union at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. From the lodge?
A. Yes; from the treasurer of the lodge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was it an oath-bound association?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you go to Martinsburg, Virginia?
A. I was in that neighborhood.
Q. Were you at Martinsburg, Virginia?
A. I was very near to it.
Q. That is not an answer to my question.
A. At what time?
Q. To organize a lodge there before the strike?
A. I did initiate men into the organization called the Trainmen's Union, at Martinsburg.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you organize lodges over the Baltimore and Ohio road?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was it understood by your lodges that this strike was to commence at Martinsburg?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know, before the strike commenced at Martinsburg, Virginia, that it was going to take place?
A. No; of course I heard all that talk. They talked most loud at Martinsburg, but I thought it was all wind. I didn't think they would strike at all.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When you were telegraphed at Oil City, were you there for the purpose of organizing lodges?
A. It was Parker City.
Q. Were you there for the purpose of organizing lodges?
A. At that time?
Q. Yes?
A. I went up there to get work.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long had you been railroading?
A. About eleven months altogether.
Q. What had been your business before that?
A. I was in the hotel business.
Q. Where?
A. At Collinwood, eight miles from Cleveland.
Q. Were you proprietor of the hotel?
A. Yes.
Q. For how long?
A. One year and nine months.
Q. What was your business before that?
A. I was in the insurance business.
Q. Where?
A. At Pittsburgh.
Q. Is that your home?
A. Yes; it is my native place.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you working for your father or for yourself in the insurance business?
A. I represented four Chicago companies for myself.
Q. When you returned from the oil country, you say you met some railroad men who belonged to the Baltimore and Ohio railroad?
A. Of the Connellsville division.
Q. Where did you meet them?
A. Around the Union depot.
Q. How many of them did you meet there?
A. I remember three engineers who were there.
Q. Any other trainmen?
A. O, yes.
Q. Of the Baltimore and Ohio road?
A. These three engineers are all I can remember.
Q. Were they the ones who telegraphed to you to come to Pittsburgh?
A. No.
Q. Where did those men belong to--the Baltimore and Ohio or the Pennsylvania Central? Who telegraphed you?
A. To neither road.
Q. Of what road were they employés?
A. Of the Fort Wayne road.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. How many miles of railroad had this trouble?
A. I never figured it up. A good many miles.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You had a signal to stop trains?
A. You can stop any train if you have the signal.
Q. But did not your organization have a particular signal by which you could stop the trains?
A. The Trainmen's Union?
Q. Yes?
A. Before the strike?
Q. Yes?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Different from the ordinary signal?
A. I don't comprehend the question exactly.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was not there an understood signal among the trainmen by which, if an engineer of a train undertook to run it, they would throw him this signal, and he would stop the train and get off?
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Some peculiar signal?
A. No; I saw lots of engineers that wanted the boys to do that.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. You say then that there was no signal?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What was this signal that was used on the Pennsylvania railroad to stop trains? Was it any peculiar signal among the strikers different from other signals?
A. I have heard of it, but I can't speak from my own knowledge.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What did you hear?
A. While in jail, McAllister told me that an engineer came to him and said, "McAllister, when we come to pull out from the round-house, you just jump up on the engine and say there is some danger--you put up your hand." McAllister is an innocent sort of a fellow, and he did just as the engineer told him, and he was convicted and sentenced to six months in the work-house.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did the engineer get off when McAllister told him he couldn't go down to Twenty-eighth street?
A. He run the engine back into the house.
Q. Who was the engineer?
A. I don't remember his name.
Q. Did you ever hear that a signal was agreed upon?
A. I have heard so many stories about that, I did not pay any attention to them.
Q. Was there any class of men coöperating with your party, beside your party?
A. The mill men and the glass-house men.
Q. They all seemed to be in sympathy with the strikers?
A. Yes; they came across to the boys.
Q. They came voluntarily, did they?
A. Yes.
Q. And entered into the strike like the railroad men?
A. Yes.
Q. And took hold and assisted you?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there another class of men--tramps or strangers--who came there from a distance?
A. They crowded into Allegheny City, but we used to railroad them out of the town.
Q. You did not care to have the assistance of that class of men?
A. No.
Q. Were there any men who came from other roads and assisted you there?
A. Yes; we had men from other roads--the Baltimore and Ohio, the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern.
Q. How many men came from the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern?
A. Oh, two or three men.
Q. What did they say their business was?
A. That they came from such and such a road, and had a strike, and just come to see how we fellows were doing it.
Q. What business did they have to travel up to Allegheny City?
A. It was not very far.
Q. Was there any agreement or understanding between you strikers and the men who came from distant places, that they should concentrate at Allegheny City or at Pittsburgh?
A. There was some talk about that.
Q. Why did they want to come to that place?
A. Oh, not to Pittsburgh, just exactly.
Q. But that was considered to be the head-quarters of the strike?
A. Yes.
Q. And the principal strike or trouble would be there?
A. That is about what they thought. It was talked over in the Trainmen's Union.
Q. If the understanding among the strikers was that they were merely to leave their work and go home--to leave their trains--why was there an understanding to congregate at Pittsburgh?
A. I didn't say that. It was one of the things that was talked over, but nothing was decided on definitely. If we had struck on the 27th of June, there never would have been any trouble at all.
Q. Would the men have come from the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern to Pittsburgh, if a strike had taken place on the 27th of June? Was there any understanding, that if a strike took place then, that men from different points would collect at some one point?
A. There was some talk about it, but nothing of the kind was decided on definitely. It was all talked over.
Q. Then the men that came without any understanding?
A. They just wanted to see how things were going.
Q. Were they discharged men, principally, that came from the other roads?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know anything about that boat load of men that came down the Monongahela river?
A. No.
Q. Was there any understanding that that boat load should come?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did any other citizens, except the two men you have mentioned--citizens of Pittsburgh or Allegheny City--talk with you or offer to aid you in any way?
A. Lots of the citizens were around there in the crowd, and they gave arms to the boys, and encouragement. For instance, one man would have his shot gun, and he brought it, and one man had a rifle, and he brought it out and gave it to the boys, and some had revolvers, and they brought them out.
Q. And arms were given to the strikers in that way, by the citizens?
A. Yes.
Q. Was ammunition given to you in the same way?
A. Yes.
Q. What class of citizens were they who gave the arms and the ammunition?
A. They looked as respectable as Mr. Lindsey.
Q. Were they laboring men, or were they professional men?
A. They looked like professional men.
Q. Were any business men among them?
A. Yes.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. When was this?
A. On Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Q. Did they furnish arms and ammunition on Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any other encouragement given to the strikers by the citizens, except what you have mentioned--the giving of the arms?
A. They furnished us food.
Q. Was this food given to you because you were protecting the property, or was it given to you because you were strikers?
A. Well, we were strikers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were arms furnished you for the purpose of resisting the authorities, either the civil or the military, or for the purpose of protecting the railroad property and other property?
A. We were not resisting any authorities at all. We had the arms to keep off the mob. We did not take the arms to fight anybody that had authority over us.
Q. What did you take the arms for?
A. To keep off the mob, or the tramps, or anybody else that wanted to interfere with us.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was that what the citizens gave you the arms for?
A. I didn't ask them what they gave us the arms for.
Q. What did they say they gave you the arms for?
A. Some of them said this, and some of them said the other thing.
Q. State what any one citizen said on the one side, and then on the other?
A. Some of them said, "Shoot the damned soldiers when they come," and some of them said, "If anybody interferes with you, or tries to wrong you, kill them right here"--talk of that kind. "You are out on a strike now, and have got the railroad company where you want it, and you are damned fools if you don't keep them there."
Q. Were similar remarks to those made by any of the persons who furnished you arms and ammunition?
A. I cannot say that, because I would only hear some of them talk as I mingled with the crowd. I would turn around and look at them, and then pass on. Of course, everybody was excited--everybody had lost their brains--everybody was wild, and people did not know what they were doing.
Q. Was anything said, prior to this strike, by the citizens about furnishing you arms?
A. No; I didn't hear anything of the kind prior to the strike.
Q. Did anybody offer to furnish you flour or articles to live on during the strike?
A. Yes.
Q. To what extent?
A. Enough to keep us until the strike was over.
Q. Were there any business men who offered to do that?
A. They were all business men.
Q. Flour dealers?
A. Yes; and grocery men.
Q. Wholesale dealers?
A. Men we were dealing with on the road offered to keep us all the time we were on the strike.
Q. Offered to keep you all the time you were out on the strike?
A. Yes.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did Mr. Jenkins offer to furnish flour to the strikers?
A. I have heard it so stated, but I cannot say so from my own knowledge. I don't believe he did. I don't believe he is that kind of a man.
Q. Did any other offer to furnish any?
A. No one except our grocery men--the men we were dealing with--they encouraged us. They knew their money depended on us.
Q. From your intercourse with the citizens, was it your understanding that you, as strikers, had the sympathy of the community?
A. Undoubtedly we did, sir.
Q. What led you to understand that you had their sympathy?
A. By their actions.
Q. But what else?
A. The way we would hear them talk in their daily conversation; but I think if the strikers had turned in when the mob commenced burning the property, and if the citizens had just turned in with them--and I know if I had been in Pittsburgh, I would have died or I would have stopped that mob--at any rate, I would have attempted it, and I think I would have had enough citizens to help me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean help you to prevent the destruction of the property?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The sympathy you spoke of--was it general?
A. We appeared to have the sympathy of the whole community.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have the sympathy of the citizens while destroying the property of the railroad, or while burning it?
A. I think if we didn't have it, I think that they, the citizens, must have acted very funny. I didn't stop to ask them.
Q. Did you have the sympathy of the citizens in the destruction of the railroad property?
A. I don't think that they cared very much for the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, even if it was burned up. They just stood around, and said it was none of their business.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you over at the fire during Sunday?
A. No, sir; I kept decently away.
Q. Then how do you know that they stood around there?
A. I lived in a high house, and I noticed lots of people up on the hill. I had a spy-glass.
Q. You say that you, as strikers, had the sympathy of the citizens. Was there any antipathy on the part of the citizens against the railroad company?
A. So far as I was able to judge, I don't think the citizens of Pittsburgh ever had any high opinion of the Pennsylvania Company.
Q. Why?
A. On account of the freight discriminations, &c. I have heard business men say repeatedly that their business had gone away from them--that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company drove that away from them, and the newspapers have been crying the Pennsylvania Company down for years.
Q. Was that what encouraged the railroad employés to strike?
A. No. We thought that our cause was a just one, and that any one with any sense would be in sympathy with us.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Were there any citizens who condemned the strikers--any of them who ever said a word in rebuke of the strikers at any time?
A. After the fire; yes.
Q. But prior to the fire?
A. No. I never heard any one say anything of the kind before.
Q. But none of the officials of Allegheny condemned the action of the strikers?
A. At what time?
Q. At any time prior to that Sunday?
A. I never saw any of the officials, except Mayor Phillips one time when I spoke to him. He said if we wanted to strike we had a perfect right to strike.
Q. But he made a speech?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't he tell the crowd to disperse and let the railroad property alone?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. What was the tenor of his speech?
A. My recollection of it is, he said if the men were determined to strike, all right, that they had a perfect right; but as chief magistrate of the city he would ask them not to interfere with any one that wanted to work.
Q. Didn't he also say that you must not interfere with the railroad property?
A. That is my recollection of it--that we must not interfere with anybody that wanted to work.
Q. Don't you remember that he said anything about the railroad property?
A. I have no recollection about his using the word property.
Q. Did he tell them that they must keep the peace?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. That he was there for the purpose of seeing that the peace was kept?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told him that you would keep the peace?
A. Yes; and he must have had some respect for our words, because he withdrew his police.
Q. You had no trouble during the whole disturbance?
A. No, sir.
Q. There was no interfering with the men that wanted to work?
A. No; I said distinctly that--in the presence of the mayor--that if they had scabs enough to work the trains they could do it.
Q. Do you know of any railroad men at the time of the disturbance, who were ready to go out on the trains?
A. I didn't see a man. Every man I saw said he would not work.
* * * * *
A. J. Cassatt, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence, and official connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company.
A. I reside in Philadelphia, and am the third vice president.
Q. Just give us a statement, as to where you were when the first disturbance occurred at Pittsburgh, on the Pennsylvania Central railroad, and what came under your observation thereafter.
A. I was in the office on Thursday--in the office of the company--about two o'clock, when I got a dispatch from Mr. Gardner, at Altoona, addressed to Mr. Frank Thompson, at Philadelphia, which was brought into me, on account of Mr. Thompson's absence in New York, stating that a strike had taken place that morning at Pittsburgh, among the firemen and brakemen, and that no trains had gone out that morning. I telegraphed to Pittsburgh, to get extra conductors and engineers, to take the place of those who had gone out, and I thought it would be over very soon. I went up to the country where I lived, and I didn't hear anything further until evening. On coming to the West Philadelphia office, I then heard that no trains had moved up to that time, and I thought that my duty ought to be there, and I got on a train and went to Pittsburgh.
Q. What time did you arrive there?
A. On Friday morning. When I got to Pittsburgh, I found that Sheriff Fife had called upon the State authorities, and that three regiments were getting under arms then.
Q. State now, what the civil authorities were doing at that time, and whether you had any interview with the mayor of the city, and if so, what the end of it was, or whether you tried to have an interview?
A. I was told when I got there, that Sheriff Fife had gone out to the mob, and had undertaken to disperse them with some deputy sheriffs who were sworn in, but that they hooted at him, and it had no effect at all. I was told that the city had no police force on in the day time, or only a few men. I saw Mr. Stewart, who was formerly connected with the company, and asked him to go and see Mayor McCarthy, and ask him to put on some of the discharged men, and gather a posse, and send them down to disperse the crowd, and get back the property. But Mr. Stewart came back in a short time, and said that the mayor would not listen to it. So I gave up the attempt to have a further communication with the mayor, and wait for the State to take its course.
Q. Who is Mr. Stewart?
A. He was formerly our freight agent at Pittsburgh, and he is very well known there.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What is his first name?
A. David Stewart. What passed between the mayor and Stewart I heard from Mr. Stewart himself.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you request the mayor to come to the Union depot, or request an interview with him?
A. No; Mr. Stewart was simply to ask him to swear those people in; and upon the mayor's refusing to do so, he came back and reported to me, and told me at the same time that McCarthy, the mayor, had declined.
Q. What time did Mr. Stewart return to you?
A. About noon, on Friday.
Q. Did you meet Sheriff Fife on your arrival there?
A. I saw Sheriff Fife and exchanged a few words with him, because I learned from Mr. Pitcairn and Mr. Watt what powers he had assumed.
Q. Did you see General Brinton during the day on Friday?
A. He came on Saturday.
Q. I mean General Pearson.
A. I did.
Q. And learned what steps had been taken by the State officials?
A. He told me what he had done. He sent Colonel Guthrie's regiment--and, indeed, I saw them when they were out--to East Liberty, and expected to go down with two other regiments and open the road. That attempt afterwards was abandoned, because they thought the force was not sufficient to disperse the crowd who were assembled there. They thought it best to wait until they could get a larger force, when they thought they could overawe the crowd, without coming to actual hostilities.
Q. Was any attempt made to move any trains from that time up to four o'clock Saturday afternoon?
A. No, sir; no freight trains. Our men declined to go out. The engineers and conductors said they were afraid that the road was blocked with the crowd.
Q. And until the arrival of General Brinton, with his force, no attempt was made?
A. No; in fact, no attempt was made then.
Q. Had you no communication with the citizens of Pittsburgh after your arrival?
A. Not as a body. I saw a number of the citizens. I think Mr. Park and Mr. Thaw, and Mr. James Park, junior. I think I saw him on that day, but I don't remember the citizens--quite a number.
Q. During the day Friday and Saturday, state whether the police officers made any attempt to disperse the crowd that were assembled about the railroad?
A. Not to my knowledge?
Q. Had you crews that were willing to go out in case they could get out without any disturbance?
A. We had a number of crews to go out after the road was opened.
Q. On Saturday had you the crews?
A. Yes. On Saturday 1 walked down with the troops as far as the round-house and went into the round-house myself, and saw a number of engineers that said they would take their trains out as soon as the road was open. We might have got up about a half dozen crews if the road was opened, and if they could go in safety. We had the engines all fired up and backed out, and ready to start at fifteen minutes' notice.
Q. Were the engineers and the firemen at their posts at the time the troops arrived?
A. We had men at the round-house--engineers and firemen and conductors and brakemen, ready to take the trains out, and we were going to send out double-headers, too.
Q. How many crews had you ready then?
A. They reported twelve or fourteen crews--enough to take out that many trains. I saw a number of men in the round-house, and talked to them, and they said they would go if they had protection.
Q. Were you at Twenty-eighth street when the collision occurred with the troops?
A. No, sir. I went down with the troops as far as the western round-house, and went in there with the plan of starting the trains at once, as soon as the tracks were cleared. I went into the round-house and made arrangements to start, when the foreman of the machine shop came to me, and said a riot was going on outside, and I got on the roof and witnessed the collision between the troops and the people. A great number of stones were thrown and shots were fired by the crowd, and then I saw the troops fire in return.
Q. After the troops fired on the crowd, the crowd ran, and the tracks were cleared for a time?
A. Yes.
Q. At that time were your crews ready to go out, during the time the tracks were cleared?
A. They were. I can state that the only part of the track that was clear was on Twenty-eighth street. The crowd lined the road above Twenty-eighth street, and there was a crowd at East Liberty.
Q. Was that the reason why the trains did not start?
A. Yes; the men did not think it would be safe to go. The crowd dispersed, and while I was on the roof I got a message from General Pearson--for he was in Mr. Pitcairn's office, three or four hundred feet from where I was--and that he wanted to see me, and I went there, and General Brinton came in at the same time, and I was present when the discussion took place between the two gentlemen as to the proper course to pursue.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. After the firing?
A. Yes; General Brinton said that he was not satisfied with the orders he had; that his orders were to go down and take possession of the property, but that none had been received about firing on the mob, and that he could not order his men to do it, and he wanted orders to disperse the mob, as it was re-assembling, and drive it away and make an end of it; or he wanted orders to get his command into a different position; that they were hemmed in between the shops and the hill, and were very much exposed to a fire of stones and a fire from the mob, and he did not think the place tenable, unless he got orders to attack and drive away the mob. General Pearson hesitated quite a while, and finally, after five minutes' discussion, or more, he said he did not think it his duty to attack the mob with that small force. He had no doubt that General Brinton could drive off and disperse the crowd, but there would be a great loss of life, and he thought the best thing was to retire the troops and wait for reinforcements, and then overawe the crowd and prevent bloodshed. I did not take any part in the discussion. I think that General Pearson asked me one or two questions, and I said that I was not a military man; that all I wanted was to get possession of the property again. I went afterwards to the Union depot.
Q. And did you remain at the Union depot all night?
A. To one o'clock, and then went to the Monongahela House.
Q. Were you there when General Pearson came in from the round-house?
A. I was.
Q. Did you hear what was said by General Pearson to General Latta?
A. No; I came into General Latta's room about seven o'clock that evening. My room was on the same floor. I saw General Pearson sitting down there, and he said he had come down to communicate with General Latta. I made some remark about his getting there--how he got there, and he said he had come along the tracks and among the cars, and was not recognized. I went away, and when I came in afterwards he had gone. I was not a witness of anything that passed between the two gentlemen.
Q. Do you know where General Pearson was during the firing between the troops and the people?
A. I believe he was in Mr. Pitcairn's office. I was so told that he was in the office at the time--by the clerks.
Q. Do you remember how General Pearson was dressed when the troops went out to Twenty-eighth street?
A. He was in a sort of undress uniform--light pantaloons and ordinary fatigue coat--a military coat. He was not in full uniform.
Q. In fatigue uniform?
A. Yes; a blue military sack coat, and, I think, light or white pantaloons.
Q. Did he have his sword?
A. No; I think he had a little cane in his hand.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When he went out?
A. When he went down with the troops.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How was he when he returned?
A. In the same way, except that he had his coat on his arms. He was in his shirt sleeves. It was a very hot evening--a close evening.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he wear his belt?
A. I think not; but I am not positive about that.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you observe a belt he had on--a very fine belt?
A. No: he may have had it on, but I don't recollect it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In the conversation that you had with James Park, junior, do you remember which day it was--whether it was Friday or Saturday?
A. I think it must have been on Saturday--I think it was.
Q. Can you state the nature of the conversation?
A. Mr. Park, I think, was arguing against the propriety of sending the troops down, and said that the mob was a very violent one, and there were very large numbers of them, and that we ought to have eight or ten thousand troops to disperse them, and he thought that the troops ought not to go down. I replied in substance that was not my business. That I was to open the roads as soon as the tracks were cleared, and I supposed that General Brinton had his orders, and would obey them.
Q. Did he suggest that it was a bad time to undertake to open the road that afternoon?
A. I think he did, but I gave him to understand clearly that I had no control over the matter; that I was only anxious to get the road open. He wanted me to suggest to the State authorities, or to ask them not to go down with the troops that day, or until we got reinforcements, and other suggestions were made by some other gentlemen--by Mr. Thaw--but I declined to have anything to do with them. In fact, Mr. Thaw had written out a note urging that the troops should not be taken down. I said I didn't think it was our business; that we were in the hands of the State, and that they ought to decide. Mr. John Scott, the solicitor of the Pennsylvania Company, came into the office while the discussion was going on, and said I was right, and Mr. Thaw then tore up the note; but he then made a strong appeal to me, personally, not to have the troops sent down; but I had made up my mind not to interfere in any way with the State officials, and I did not. I took the position that we were in their hands, and it was their problem to work out.
Q. Did General Pearson talk to you about the propriety of undertaking to open the road Saturday afternoon?
A. There was no discussion about it. It was taken as a matter of course that the troops would be down there. On Friday it was talked about, but on Saturday, when the Philadelphia troops arrived, there was no discussion about it. It was understood that they were to move down there at once.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. At the time of this conversation between General Brinton and General Pearson in the office, did you hear General Brinton ask for permission to attack the mob?
A. I don't know whether it was put in that form, but he said he had force enough to disperse the mob and to keep them away, and wanted positive orders to attack them. My recollection is, he objected to the form of the orders he had--it throwed the responsibility. He said I have got force enough, and my men are ready to obey orders. I have got force enough to disperse the mob if I have orders to do so. He stated to General Pearson, when he came in, that he had not given the orders to fire, nor had any of his officers, but that the troops had fired in self defense, which I think I can justify myself, as I saw the stones and the pistol shots fired at them before they turned and fired; and, indeed, the way in which the fire was returned led me to believe that it was not upon an order. It was scattering at first, but then became general.
Q. At the distance you were off, what led you to believe that no order was given to fire?
A. I was about one hundred and fifty yards, or perhaps a little less than that away, and I don't suppose the troops could have heard a command, if given, as there was such a shouting and yelling. The crowd was very large, and they all seemed to be shouting and hallooing. There was quite a shower of stones before the firing commenced, and when it did commence it was scattering, but then became quite general. It lasted a minute or two minutes, and I could see the officers trying to stop the firing, after it commenced.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You remained at the Union depot until one o'clock?
A. Until one o'clock, Sunday morning.
Q. Did you learn that the mob had commenced firing at that time?
A. Yes; we saw the fire at that time. I left the depot in the first place pretty thoroughly worn out, and then it was urged that there was an ill feeling against Mr. Pitcairn, and General Pearson, and myself, and they thought it might endanger the building if I remained there, so I went up to the Monongahela house, and spent the night there.
Q. Did you have an interview with either General Latta or General Pearson, in regard to preventing the mob from firing the property?
A. General Pearson had left at that time, and General Latta had no force at all. There was a mile of space between the depot and the round-house, where the troops were, and there was a crowd of people all along that distance.
Q. Had General Pearson his coat off when he came in?
A. Yes; it was a surprise to me that General Pearson could get out at the time he did. He must have been disguised. He had his coat on his arm. He must have got in among the cars.
Q. Were you on the ground, anywhere in the vicinity, on Sunday?
A. I was at the Monongahela house until eleven or twelve o'clock on Sunday. I then went over the Point bridge, and took that road because there was no crowd there, in company with Mr. Bennett, who drove me over. We went to Mr. Layng's office, and afterwards came back to the Monongahela house, and stayed there until two or three o'clock, and I then went to Allegheny City, and stayed there until eight o'clock, trying to get provisions to General Brinton. I succeeded in getting two wagon loads off, about eight o'clock in the evening.
Q. Had you or any of the officials of the road been able to ascertain whether there was any arrangement for a strike of the employés of the road?
A. We had heard that the men had organized the Trainmen's Union, as they call it, and that a strike was threatened; but on looking at the thing as carefully as we could, we came to the opinion, or we did not believe, that any strike would take place, and we were rather surprised when the strike did take place. We never had any delegations from the men or any committees come to see us.
Q. Were there any complaints from the men after the issuing of the order reducing the wages ten per cent.?
A. There was no formal complaints. A committee of engineers came to see Mr. Scott, and after the interview with him, they asked him to put his statement in writing--what he said to them--the necessity for the reduction and the disposition of the company to restore the wages when the business of the company revived; which he did. In reply, they wrote a letter acquiescing in the reduction, because the company believed it was a necessity, and that they would accept it as cheerfully as they could.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What time was that?
A. Shortly after the reduction took effect or after it was announced--a couple of weeks before the strike. We never had any communication from any brakemen or firemen or any one respecting that. This running of double-headers, to which they objected, had been practiced on the Pittsburgh division for a number of years, but not to the same extent. Many of the coal trains were running with two engines, and, as a matter of economy, it was decided to run all through trains with two engines. On other portions of the road, we ran fifty or sixty cars to a train, but at that end, we only ran seventeen cars with one engine, and in increasing the numbers of cars, we reduced the number of train hands, and saved expenses; and in order to do this, we decided double-headers. Some of the men objected to that. That may have been a pretext for the strike, but the men were not working any more hours.
Q. Did the issuing of the order running double-headers necessarily discharge any men?
A. It reduced the force of brakeman.
Q. And of engineers?
A. Not of engineers or firemen.
Q. Conductors?
A. Conductors also.
Q. And brakemen?
A. Yes; the men at that time were making short time, because business was slack. They were not making more than three, four, or five days a week--five trips, and the monthly wages were small. We had discharged a good many men--twenty-five or thirty per cent. of the men, but the remainder, of course, would have made better wages, and we paid by the trip only.
Q. How did the business of your company compare with the business done by the company for the three months preceding that time?
A. It was much lighter. The business fluctuated a good deal. There is sometimes a market for grain, in Europe for instance, when the shipments are large, and then again the shipments slack off. That very day I got a message from Mr. McCullough, the vice president of the western lines, stating that there was a brisk demand for cars, and asking me to send cars. If they had only waited a couple of weeks, they could all have had enough to do.
Q. How did the business compare with the amount of business done at the same time in the previous year?
A. We very often have periods of light business, quite as light as that--very often--that last a few weeks or a month or two.
Q. Was that what induced the company to reduce the wages--the falling off of business?
A. No; because we did not anticipate that falling off of business. In fact, the tonnage that year showed an increase, but on account of the low prices at which the business had to be hauled, we are forced to cut down expenses or else break.
Q. Freights were lower than they had been?
A. Yes; they had been decreasing for a number of years. We had to do the work cheaper.
Q. Was that in relation to through and local freights, both?
A. Yes; everything. Our local business was formerly the much larger portion of our trade, and the rates at which they were done were lower than they had been.
Q. Did that ten per cent. reduction apply to all the officers and employés of the road?
A. Yes; to all the officers and employés of the road, from the president down.
Q. Did it apply to the Pennsylvania Central Railroad and all its branches?
A. Yes; the order was given simultaneously to reduce on all the lines east and west of Pittsburgh. It was the second reduction made since the panic of 1873. Our board thought that the shrinkage or rather the reduction in the wages of that class of labor had been much greater than nineteen per cent., and that our men ought to be able to stand that.
Q. When was the first reduction made?
A. In the fall of 1873.
Q. What was the amount of that?
A. Ten per cent.; and then this reduction of ten per cent. made an aggregate reduction of nineteen per cent. on the original pay of 1873. Nearly every other class of labor had come down more than that.
Q. It was the only reduction made since 1873?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of the employés of the road getting less than a dollar a day?
A. None of the train men were. I think that some of the apprentices in the shops were--the boys--and my impression is that they and the laboring men on the track were getting ten cents an hour, or a dollar a day. When the last reduction was made it didn't apply to the men getting a dollar a day.
Q. A dollar a day, or less?
A. Yes.
Q. Did these men who were working at a dollar a day have an opportunity to put in full time?
A. They worked by the day--full time--and the only thing that caused them to lose any time was bad weather, when they could not work.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean the laboring men?
A. Yes; laborers about the shops--unskilled labor--on the track.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know anything about citizens going to Mayor McCarthy and asking him to swear in police officers to maintain peace in the city of Pittsburgh?
A. I don't know. All I know is what Mr. Stewart told me--about the mayor's reply to him when he took a message to him, that he would not swear in the policemen who were discharged--we offering to pay the wages.
Q. The Pennsylvania Railroad Company offering to pay the wages?
A. Yes; I was told he had discharged about a hundred men, and we thought that the hundred men who had been on the force--accustomed to the people--could be better handled. We made the offer to pay them.
Q. Did you ever have any strike before?
A. I don't remember any strike in the last seventeen or eighteen years on the Pennsylvania road.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Had any differences arisen between the employés and the company at any time?
A. Oh, yes; differences have arisen, but none that were not adjusted by compromise.
Q. Was there any difference existing between the company and the employés about the time of the strike on the Reading railroad--you remember there was a strike a few months before on the Reading railroad--principally the engineers?
A. There was no difference, at that time, that I know of.
Q. What is the general policy of your company in such cases--cases of disagreement or dissatisfaction between you and the men?
A. We hear the statement of the men, and if we think they have any just ground for complaint, we endeavor to remedy them, and after we have said so and so, we stand by our position. We looked upon this objection of the men to the running of double-headers as an interference with our own business. We thought that if we would let them say how many engines or cars should go to a train, we might as well give up the management into their hands, so we did not have any discussion about it. But we had no formal complaint. No committee waited on us in regard to that. We simply knew that some of the men objected, but from no person had we any complaint in a formal way. We did not think it a thing that affected the men, personally, but thought it simply a question of management.
Q. Always, when any difficulty had arisen or any complaint had been made, you had come to an amicable solution?
A. It had been the result before. I don't think that any strike on the road has taken place--certainly not since 1860, probably not for two or three years before that. There was a strike of engineers before that which was adjusted by conference.
Q. You knew nothing of the action of the sheriff at Pittsburgh, or the proclamation of the Governor, until you arrived at Pittsburgh?
A. Nothing.
Q. Then you had nothing to do with the proclamation?
A. Nothing whatever. I never saw it until it was printed in the papers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. To whom did you first make application for protection to your property?
A. I stopped at Greensburg, on my way out, and saw the Lieutenant Governor, supposing that, in the absence of the Governor, he was the proper one to take action, and having been advised, on my way out, that Sheriff Fife had telegraphed him for assistance. I stopped over one train, the trains being run close together, to ascertain what action he was going to take, and I came on the next train to Pittsburgh.
Q. Did you ever make any application to the mayor of Pittsburgh or of Allegheny for protection?
A. I did not make any personally, but it was done by the officers before I got there.
Q. Did you make any direct application to the State authorities for protection?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know who made the application to the State for protection?
A. I was informed that Sheriff Fife did. I was informed by telegraph, on the way, on Friday night--early on Friday morning, I think, at Cresson, that Sheriff Fife had called upon the Lieutenant Governor for assistance; that he had not force enough to disperse----
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were informed by your solicitor, Mr. Scott, what had been done in the way of calling for help on your arrival?
A. Yes; I was informed that he had first called upon the sheriff, and that the sheriff had made an attempt to recover possession of the property, and failed, and that the sheriff had made a formal call on the State officials.
Q. Did Mr. Scott state that they had called on the mayor before calling on the sheriff?
A. I don't recollect that. I don't know. When I got there, on Friday morning, the Governor's proclamation had been issued, and the troops were called out, and the matter was then in the hands of the State.
Q. Was any call made by you, or by any other officer of the Pennsylvania railroad, to your knowledge, upon the Governor directly?
A. No, sir; none whatever.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any effort made by the strikers, or the railroad employés, to compromise the differences between the railroad company and themselves?
A. We heard nothing from them at all up to the time of the strike. On Friday afternoon, a committee, representing the strikers, consisting, I think, of engineers and firemen and brakemen, two or three of them, called on Mr. Pitcairn in person, and presented a written demand, stating that unless these demands are complied with, that they would not run their trains. This committee met Mr. Pitcairn on the platform, and I went out there to hear what they had to say. He handed me this paper, and I read it, and handed it back, and told him to have no further talk with them; that they had demanded such things that we couldn't grant them at all, and it wasn't worth while to discuss the matter. They demanded that their wages should be raised, and that double-headers should not be run; that no more than seventeen cars should be run to a train; that each engineer should have the privilege of selecting his own fireman, and that that the firemen should not be changed without his consent, and a number of other things of the same kind.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They also had up the classification?
A. Yes; the classification of engineers was to be abolished, and no man engaged in the strike was to be discharged. In other words, they proposed taking the road out of our hands.
Q. What was the classification of engineers?
A. It was introduced on our road, on the lines west of Pittsburgh, in 1871 or 1872, I think. The engineers asked for an advance of wages at that time, claiming that they were not being paid as much as other lines were paying--other lines that competed with us. A committee, representing each division of the road, called upon Mr. Scott at that time and asked for an advance, which resulted in the meeting being adjourned to Pittsburgh, where I met them. Mr. Layng and I presented this plan, stating that we were willing to advance the older men, but we couldn't advance the younger men in the service. I think it advanced all men who had been in the service over ten years ten per cent., and made no advance for the others. The understanding was that there should be four classes of men. In the first class, those who had served three years; that they should be in the second class two years; and be in the third class one year; and a man who was promoted from a fireman, should be in the fourth class. We made an advance of ten per cent. in the one class, and the second was ten per cent. below the first, and the third was ten per cent. below the second.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You graded the men according to their time of service and efficiency?
A. According to their value to the company.
Q. Was that one of the things complained of by the men?
A. I didn't know that there was any complaint about that until this committee came on Friday afternoon, and that was one of the things they wanted to abolish--the classification.
Q. So that they should be all alike?
A. All alike. I doubt very much to-day whether it is the sentiment of the road at all. I don't think that fair and sensible. It is the proper thing to do, but I don't think, however, that had anything to do with the strike, but they thought while they were asking for so many things, they might as well ask for that, too.
SCRANTON, March 29, 1878.
The committee met at the Wyoming house, at six o'clock, P.M. Mr. Lindsey in the chair.
All members present except Mr. Dewees.
* * * * *
R. H. McKune:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where your residence is?
A. City of Scranton.
Q. Were you mayor of the city in July last.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long had you been mayor previous to that time?
A. I took the office of mayor in 1875--20th March.
Q. When did your term expire?
A. It will expire next Monday, sir.
Q. I wish you would just go on Mr. McKune, in your own way, and make a statement of the disturbance that occurred in your city here in July last, giving the date when it commenced?
A. Will I commence with it at the commencement of the suspension?
Q. I think you had better give us a summary of it right along?
A. On Sunday evening, July 22, I think, I received notice, or received information, in regard to the riot at Pittsburg. I at that time was at Ocean Grove. I immediately started for home, taking the train next morning, and reached home Monday evening. I found the citizens here very much excited over a rumor of a strike that was to occur.
Q. What day was that?
A. On Tuesday. I attempted to get my council together, but found that they were opposed to taking any action for protection in any way, and gave it up. The strike was fixed to occur the next day. On Wednesday, I went to the depot, and was in the office of the superintendent, when a gentleman connected with the strike came in and stated to Mr. Halsted----
Q. The superintendent of what road?
A. Delaware, Lackawanna and Western--that the trains could go no further. The superintendent asked me for protection for the train.
Q. On the 25th?
A. On the 25th; yes, sir.
Q. What time of day?
A. This was at nine-fifty, sir. It was on the 25th, and this young man said that they would permit the engine and mail car to go through, but none--all the other cars to go, or the coaches--none of the coaches to go.
Q. Do you know who that gentleman was?
A. Mr. William F. Halsted, the superintendent of the road, will know. I think we will have him.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know yourself?
A. No, sir; I do not. He was one of the employés of the road. He was one of the members of the executive committee--one of the executive committee of strikers. Mr. Halsted asked me if we could give him any protection to get the train through. The crowd was dense. I told him no. That my advice was that the engine be taken and run into the yard. I might say right here, in coming through New York, I had had an interview with Moses Taylor and other parties connected with the road, and I gave them to understand that I had no force here of any moment, and, from what I knew, that the Governor was out of the State; that I, probably, could not have any to assist them in getting a train through, and that the best way was not to attempt to push a train through until we could get sufficient force to do so. That was why I advised Mr. Halsted so to do. Mr. Halsted gave orders to have the engine taken and placed in the yard--not in the round-house, but in the yard--refused to permit it to go without it went with the train. Previous to that, I telegraphed in respect to the difficulty to Governor Hartranft, and received this telegram: "The Governor will be here at one o'clock. Let things remain in statu quo, and do not precipitate a collision. Signed by C. N. Farr."
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where is it dated?
A. Dated Harrisburg. Immediately upon the cars being--upon the engine being taken off--I telegraphed to the Governor stating the fact that the strikers had taken the coaches off. That is, on the 24th instant--the 25th, we have got the dates wrong there--no, the dates must be right, this must be wrong, July 24. I telegraphed to the Governor like this, "The coaches have been taken off the mail train." During the afternoon the Governor's dispatch, after arriving, advising Mr. Halsted to let the mail car go through, which dispatch was sent not only to Mr. Halsted, but to the strikers. Their meeting was in the office immediately opposite to mine, and we then consulted in the evening or immediately, and from what I could gather as to the wishes of the parties--the board of directors concluded not to put the train through. On July 26, everything during the day was quiet. I would say on the 26th, the miners came out--the employés of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company, with also the mining company--they came out from their works to hold a meeting at the Round woods--a meeting probably of six or eight thousand.
Q. Where are the Round woods?
A. The Round woods lie in the Fifth ward--just on the borders of the Fifth ward, and the adjoining township. At this meeting a committee was appointed for the purpose of conferring with Mr. Storrs, asking for an advance of wages, and so on.
Q. Who was Mr. Storrs?
A. He is general manager of the coal department of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company. This is Thursday. The streets began to be filled at that time with strange faces, faces of which my officers, nor none of the old citizens, nor the foreman of any of the companies could identify as citizens of our city. As I said before, I had asked a member of council, and tried to get my council called together to see what they would do to assist me in regard to the matter, and there was nothing done, and I then called together an advisory committee, consisting of seven of our leading men of the city. I selected gentlemen who were not connected in any way, who were all property holders, and not connected in any way with any of the corporations. That advisory committee met in the morning, at nine o'clock, and at three o'clock in the afternoon.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. On Thursday?
A. Yes, sir; and the whole time during the strike. On Thursday the pumps in the mines were vacated--ceased to work--and on the 27th of the month I received a notification from the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company, through their president, Sam Sloan, like this:
ROBERT H. MCKUNE, Mayor of the City of Scranton:
You are hereby notified that by reason of strikes and threats and unlawful conduct of disorderly and evil disposed persons, the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company apprehend that their property, situated within our city, is in danger of damage and destruction, and that the said company is unable to protect its rights and property, and look to you to use such lawful measures as will prevent its destruction and assure its safety.
DELAWARE LACKAWANNA AND WESTERN RAILROAD COMPANY, Per SAM SLOAN, President.
The same day I also received a notification from Mr. W. W. ----.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who was it signed by?
A. The railroad company, per "Sam Sloan, president"--not "Samuel," you will notice it is "Sam Sloan." I also received from W. W. Scranton, superintendent, on the same day--W. W. Scranton, general superintendent of the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company--a like notification. I should state that on the 26th I had received from Mr. Lathrop, the receiver of the Central Railroad Company of New Jersey, a like notice. On receiving this notice I immediately placed a few special policemen out, and in consulting with my advisory committee, it was thought best to swear in a number of special policemen from among our citizens, who would be willing to act in case of emergency or outbreak, or the like of that without compensation.
Q. Will you tell how many policemen you had in the city at that time?
A. I had in the city, at that time, nine--ten regular police for day and night service, and put on eight specials. I had eighteen policemen in a city of thirty-five thousand inhabitants. I run the city now with eleven policemen.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Will you please state just here, if you had any difficulty in getting men to serve as police officers, that were citizens of this city?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Let him get through with the history.
A. In the mean time, I had continued my--I may say that on the 25th, a committee from the railroad employés, a committee from several of the organizations of strikers, waited upon me to ask me to issue a proclamation prohibiting the sale of liquor. I issued the following:
MAYOR'S OFFICE, SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA, July 25,1877.
The general public opinion, as expressed to me, seems not to apprehend any violence or danger, unless a too free use of liquor shall be indulged in; and, at the request of committees from the workingmen's organizations and others, who have called upon me this morning, requesting me to close all places where liquor is sold, I, therefore, in compliance with said request, ask of you to close your bars, and to strictly abstain from the selling of all kinds of liquor for the present.
R. H. MCKUNE, Mayor.
I will state that, as a general thing, that request was complied with up to the 27th or 28th; in fact, all of our eating-houses sold no liquor during the whole time of the strike. Immediately upon my advisory committee coinciding with me in regard to my special police--they were afterwards known as vigilants--I placed the matter in the hands of Colonel Hitchcock for organization, and Captain Ripple and Captain Merryman. They immediately commenced their organization of enrollment, and during Thursday, I think, some thirty enrolled themselves. In the meantime, on the 27th, I had from Carney's, near Harrisburg--there seems to be two dates here, one of 27th and the other 28th--the following telegram:
ROBERT H. MCKUNE, Mayor:
Can do nothing for you at this moment. If you have patience for a few days, I hope to be able to relieve you.
J. P. HARTRANFT.
Q. Dated where?
A. That is on the Pennsylvania Central, dated 28th. This was in answer to a telegram to know if I could have troops. He had previously sent me a message like this:
"General Osborne and troops have been ordered to aid civil authorities. His attention has been called to your dispatch. His is all the force now at command."
I will state that General Osborne has command of forces of the division that belongs here in this section, and my committee were of the opinion that that force would be of no benefit to us. Thus things remained in a comparatively quiet state until the 27th, when I sent the following message to the Governor:
"The Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company have asked me for aid, to prevent their mines from being flooded, and otherwise destroyed. I am unable to render the assistance required. Can you have sent here a body of United States troops. The militia are in sympathy with the strikers, and, in the opinion of my advisory committee, would be of no avail. The presence of United States troops, in my opinion, would secure the desired purpose, without a conflict."
It was in answer to this dispatch that the Governor sends this of the 28th, marked Carney's. On Friday evening was the first evening that I met any portion of my posse, or special police, as they were called; swore in at that time a portion, and again on Saturday they were furnished with arms, which we procured here--Remington rifles, mostly. There were some muskets that had been left by the companies, in the armories of the companies that had gone to rendezvous with General Osborne, which I took possession of, and had them sent to my head-quarters. I had established my head-quarters for the posse at the Lackawanna Coal Company's store, where the arms were all kept, and where men were on duty day and night. Thus matters stood with us until Sunday, when, sending for a committee of the employés that had been appointed at the meeting at the Round woods, and laying the state of the case before them, that a cessation of the pumps in the mines was only going to destroy and injure them; that as far as the company was concerned, they would be but little injured, for they didn't care anything about the coal getting out; that some of our mines were in such a situation that if the lower pumps were drowned out, which they would be, it would take six months, or even a year, for them to get pumped out again. The committee, after a couple of hours talk with them, were enabled to see the folly of their course, and I issued there, in their presence--framed the following proclamation, which I had posted in the many mines in the disaffected districts, during the riot:
MAYOR'S PROCLAMATION.
WHEREAS, A difference of opinion having occurred between the employers and employés of several corporations in this city, whereby labor at the different collieries has been suspended, and on account of this suspension, serious injury has been effected, the most serious of which is the non-working of the mines;
And whereas, I have the assurance that the men at the collieries are willing to render me their most hearty cooperation for the protection of those who may desire to work the pumps, I hail this as a good omen, and trust that no opposition may be made to the starting of the pumps, and I hereby invoke the good offices of all good citizens to aid the companies in protecting their property of every kind from injury or destruction, and I do also hereby warn all persons that the property not only of corporations, but of individuals, must be protected, and that any act of violence or lawlessness will be by me resisted with all the force I can command, and to this end I call upon all citizens of the city to aid me.
ROBERT H. MCKUNE, Mayor. MAYOR'S OFFICE, CITY OF SCRANTON, July 29, 1877.
Immediately upon the adjournment of the committee, I notified Mr. Storrs--Henry R. Storrs--the superintendent of the collieries here, and on Monday morning the men were put in at the pumps to work, and the pumps in the most of the mines were set to work. In the meantime, on Saturday, at the meeting of the councils, the following resolution was passed:
"Resolved by the common council, (the select council concurring,) That it is the sense of the councils that there is no danger of riot or disturbance in the city, and that there is among the workingmen no disposition to disturb the peace of the community, and that there is at present no necessity for any increase of the special police, and that any so-called policemen or watchmen or the employés will not be paid out of the city funds.
"On motion, the clerk was instructed to notify the mayor of the action of the councils on the above resolution.
"All of which is hereby respectfully submitted."
So, you see, I was running this thing somewhat single-handed. On Monday, the pumps, as I said, were going, and on Monday morning, at nine o'clock, I sent for the executive committee of the brakemen and firemen of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company, and, in consultation with them, I there gave them to understand that the citizens of the city were desirous of having their trains placed again on the road, so that they could have their mails, the banks could have their money, so that the men who had been at work could receive their pay, and, after a long conversation, lasting three hours, I gave them to understand that I should start a train next morning, at the regular schedule time, nine-fifty, and that any attempt on their part to obstruct it would be met with all the force I could command. The gentlemen of the committee wanted to know when I wanted an answer in regard to whether they would run, and I told them I would like an answer that afternoon, at four o'clock. They immediately, upon leaving my office, called for a meeting of the men who were here in the city, and, at three-thirty, took a vote in regard to the question of resumption, and, by a vote of eighty-two to seven, voted to resume work, and at six o'clock that evening the train that had started from Binghamton, upon a telegraph, passed through here. So on Tuesday evening, the pumps at the mines were working, the road was open. There was a general feeling of quietude among our citizens, and hopes that the strike was passed. On Tuesday morning, the committee from the Round woods, as we called them, met at my office for the purpose of holding consultation with General Brisbin.
Q. You say that was on Tuesday?
A. Yes. The legal adviser of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company, in that interview, lasting some three hours, the whole situation was very thoroughly gone over on the part of the men, by almost each one of them taking some part in the debate, Mr. Brisbin, taking the standing and circumstances of the company and the men, then made the following proposition: That in case hereafter, any differences of opinion arising between employer and employés, that upon the appointment of the committee from the employés, and notifying Mr. Brisbin of the same, that he would call the board of directors together, forward to this committee transportation, and that they should have the opportunity of telling their grievances, direct to the board of directors. This was one point the men tried to gain, in their long strike--the six month's strike--one they gained at this time. I never saw men seemingly more highly pleased with the result, and not only those, but Mr. Brisbin himself. During the afternoon and evening, when the information got through the city--when the evening papers came out, announcing the facts--the opinion in regard to the strike was, that the strike was about over, and we had rumors in regard to a meeting at the silk-works. We all presumed that the reports of this city would be given to that meeting, and that the meeting would, without question, resolve to go to work. The question of the advance of wages, had been abandoned, almost in the first interview with Mr. Brisbin and Mr. Storrs. In the evening, I met a number of special police posse at my head-quarters, stayed there probably half or three quarters of an hour, talking matters over, and we supposed that the emergency was over, and we relaxed, as it were, our vigilance, and most of the men went home. I had not been in bed, at the time I reached home, from the Tuesday night previous, at all. I stayed at home next day and night. I went home that night, and went to bed. I reached my office that morning, at about nine o'clock. I had relieved the officers that had been on day and night.
Q. Do you speak of Tuesday or Wednesday?
A. Wednesday, the 1st day of August. In the meantime, I might say, right here, that we had established a code of signals, to call any posse together, if it should become necessary. I need not say what it was--it was a code of signals to be given through one of the church bells. A gentleman was at my office, who represented the posse to carry the signal, or carry the orders for the signal to the men who were at the bell, and they were not to ring the bell without orders so given by the party. I remark this, for the purpose of showing in regard to what occurred now, upon the morning of the 1st. I had been hearing some cases, and was about through, when some parties came in, and said there was a large crowd coming up from the silk-works.
Q. What time was that?
A. I should think about half-past ten.
Q. In the morning?
A. Yes, sir; half-past ten or a quarter to eleven. One gentlemen, young Mr. Logan, came in with a request from Mr. Scranton that the signal bell should be rung. About the same time, Colonel Hitchcock, over the posse, came in and informed me that a crowd was down round in the neighborhood of the machine-shops, that I showed you to-day, and he immediately left the office. I gave, both to him and Mr. Logan, this order, that they might go to head-quarters as quickly as they could, and any of the boys of the posse that they might see, to notify to come immediately there, and remain there till I should send orders, or the signal bell should be rung. About the same time, Lieutenant Brown came in, and I then put on my hat, and we walked up the street together. We noticed, or, at least, came across a number of the boys, and we ordered them immediately up to head-quarters; and when I came to the corner of Lackawanna and Washington avenue, looking down the machine-shops of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company, I saw the whole space there covered with a large number of people.
Q. Give an estimate of the number, if you can, Mr. McKune?
A. Well, sir, from what I could see--what came under my observation, I should say three or four thousand people, sir, upon the railroad, through and in that part below the road. There were but very few people, we passed but very few people, comparatively, upon the main avenue, as we went up. I went down through the crowd, and as I struck the outer edge of the crowd, I said to them something like this: "Boys this won't answer. You are doing wrong. You must disperse and go home." Most of them that I first saw--the great majority of them--were of those that I knew. The way was immediately opened. Lieutenant Brown was with me. We walked side by side. I went in that way down as far as the office of the car shops--the Mackanny office, as I call it--having learned that Mrs. Mackanny and her daughter was in there, and was very much terrified, and wished to be got out. I found the door locked, and in looking into the window, saw that young Miss Mackanny was in her father's arms, fainting, and, of course, I concluded it was best that she should remain there up there. Turned and came back, for the purpose of going to the company's store--the head-quarters. Having passed from the office probably thirty or thirty-five feet, a party of men came out from the roadway that leads in through to the shops--the car shops of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company. I should think there was one hundred or one hundred and fifty of these men. They had mostly in their hands, clubs of different kinds, handles of picks, and sticks, and when the leader was within probably thirty feet of me, he made an inquiry--there was something of a fuss or noise right round where I was, and seemed to be the center of attraction--made an inquiry, "What was it? Who was it?" With that, some person standing in my vicinity says, "This is the mayor." Then, raising his club, hollered out, in an extreme loud voice, "Kill the son of a bitch. He has got no business here." With that, there were two pistol shots fired, one upon my right hand, and one upon my left, by my side, as I judge from the sound, and almost immediately with that, four or five men, one of them a constable of the Nineteenth ward, and another by the name of Duffy, and some three or four others, whom I did not know personally, rushed immediately behind me, to form a sort of a barrier against this crowd, that was seeming to make for me. With that, I was struck with a club--I judge it to be a club--right behind my shoulders very severely, so much so, that it started my left lung, which has been weak for some years, bleeding. My mouth was almost immediately filled with blood, a stone which was thrown hit me in my kidneys, and before I probably got ten steps, this crowd made towards me, and I was hit some numbers of times, but I kept square upon my feet. I dodged my head to avoid them as well as I could. In the meantime, Lieutenant Brown was standing by me. The very first signal, the very first exclamation of these men, I had ordered that the posse be sent for and the bells would be rung, but Mr. Brown dare not move. But the men passed the cry on, and it was taken up by others standing back. I probably went twenty steps before Father Dunn, the Catholic priest of the parish here, came down, and as soon as he saw me came right up to me and first took hold of my arm. He was a smaller armed man than I am; I then changed and took hold of his. Immediately upon his coming, this party that was behind trying to protect me was increased considerably, numbering twenty or twenty-five. Some of these men, who had had sticks in their hands, came up at this time.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. For your protection?
A. Yes; the men I speak of, the constable of the Nineteenth ward, and William Duffy and others immediately upon the pistols being shot off, came right for my protection--the citizens here. I might say right here, that all that party who had swept through the shops and came under my observation, not one of them I recognized as a man whom I had ever seen before. The leader, whom I took very close observation of, was a man whom I had never cast my eyes upon before to my recollection. When we got to within twenty-five or thirty feet of the causeway under the railroad, the crowd behind broke through the party that was trying to protect me, and carried off Father Dunn. I slipped from him to the left of him, so that they rushed by me, and I escaped from them and went through under the railway bridge--under the railway near there--the causeway under the railway, and there met four of my policemen. In the meantime, the crowd commenced to surge past, filling the whole street almost, with the cry, "Now for the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company's store." "Now for Lackawanna avenue. Let's clean out the town." The distance from where I met these policemen to Lackawanna avenue, is just a hundred feet, the depth of those lots. Just one hundred feet. When I reached Lackawanna avenue coming up Washington, in looking up the street, I saw my posse coming down. They were nearly opposite the Opera House, a distance of one hundred to one hundred and twenty feet from me. I stopped a moment, and the crowd seemed to give way, and waved my hands three times for them to come on. My idea was, if they could come down to my office, there we would make a stand, if they attempted to go to pillaging. I turned to go down towards my office. Lieutenant Brown was still with me. When opposite the store of Mr. Hunt, in whose employ he was, about twenty-five or thirty feet from the corner, he turned and went into the store. Just after he had left me, the crowd then commenced to surge down and fill up the street. I was struck with an instrument, whether it was a hammer or some heavy instrument I don't know--here, just back of the ear, and I have no memory from that moment of receiving the stroke--but I came down here as was testified to, at the trial, and went into the bank--the Merchants' and Mechanics', nearly opposite, at the distance from where I was struck, of about one hundred and twenty-five feet. I have no memory from that time till I found myself back again up the street, probably fifty feet, and just stepping off the sidewalk, and as I stepped off the sidewalk into the roadway, I partly fell upon my hands, and as I was raising up, I heard a shot or two, and a man cried out, "Now go for them, damn them, they are firing blank cartridges; now take their guns away from them; now kill them," and upon looking round, I saw two men standing together. I gave the word of command to fire, and almost immediately upon the word, a discharge was made, and upon the word fire, one man fell right in his tracks, right where he stood.
Q. One of the rioters?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was your posse that fired?
A. The posse fired. You will hear of the action of the posse from the gentlemen who were with the posse. I cannot give that. And then while standing--the two men seemed to be standing together--as the one fell, the other, who was standing with him, thew a stick, or stone, or something from his hand and started running, and ran probably ten or fifteen steps. He was covered very thoroughly by two guns, but the parties who were covering him with their guns could not apparently hit him without hitting somebody else. As soon as he uncovered himself the guns were immediately discharged, and he fell dead. Almost in a breath after this, the whole crowd turned in all directions, and inside of five minutes our avenues were almost clear of people. I came down--I do not know whether I mentioned that before I left--while Father Dunn and me were together, that one of those men in front of me previous to coming under the bridge came in front of me, and with a blow from a front as he passed by me, gave me a blow which broke my jaw and fractured the whole roof of my mouth.
Q. The upper jaw?
A. Yes, sir; I have no use, even now, of my front teeth. The jaw is not together at all. I am unable to use them at all for anything, only soft food. I called upon the citizens to rally, or at least took a gentleman's arm and he made the announcement for me, I was unable to say much, my mouth being so full of blood--calling upon them to come to the rendezvous at the company's store, as my head-quarters; the posse and myself then went there. I immediately telegraphed the Governor stating the case, and issued a proclamation calling upon the citizens to rally and take all precautionary measures possible for the suppression of any further outbreak. In the course of half an hour, the whole of the arms we had were placed in the hands of good responsible persons; our posse was drawn across the head of the street, and orders were sent--I sent my police out with orders that all persons should disperse--all crowds, and so on. In the course of probably half an hour from that, the report came that they were firing in the residence of the Messrs. Scranton, which was immediately above our head-quarters there. I went with the posse there, and placed some men on picket, and so on, taking precautionary measures. By two o'clock the crowds began to gather through the streets again. I sent my police officers out again to try to disperse the crowds. In the meantime, the dead bodies had been taken from off the streets, and taken home. Our acting chief came back and reported to me that he was unable to disperse the crowds. I immediately had Captain Repple to detail twenty-five men, and in company with him marched down the street, and as I met the crowds I merely said this: Gentlemen you must disperse, and go immediately home. I gave no other orders, and the result was that by the time I struck the corner here below, the crowd in this part had all dispersed, or dispersed immediately upon my giving orders. I sent the police on further, as I was quite weak at this time, bleeding very thoroughly from all of my wounds. I was unable to walk further, and went back again to head-quarters, and my policemen went on below, and were unable to disperse the crowd. The posse were kept on duty. I remained at head-quarters until next morning at half-past five o'clock, when General Brinton and his command arrived here. I then went home and had my wounds dressed. That is the history of the matter as I have it.
Q. These twenty-five men that you sent down in the afternoon at two o'clock--who were they?
A. They were the gentlemen I had sworn in as special police.
Q. Citizens of the city?
A. Yes; I could give you the names of them if I thought it was necessary, sir. Colonel Hitchcock, and Mr. Brown, and others of our best citizens.
Q. What did you learn about the assembling of this crowd, if anything, as to where they got together?
A. What I subsequently learned?
Q. What have you learned since?
A. The meeting was called at the silk-works--what we call the silk-works--it is in the Twentieth ward, near the outskirts of our city--the portion adjoining Taylorville--in a southerly direction. The resolutions which I got from the arrest of the gentleman who was president at the meeting--the chairman of the meeting--he was arrested and brought before me--and Mr. Thomas, who will be subpoenaed before you, can give you the exact wording of that resolution and can give you more intelligently the proceedings of that meeting than any other gentlemen that will be called upon. If you please, bear that in mind.
Q. What time was that meeting at the silk-works held?
A. I learned they commenced coming from Dunmore and the outer vicinity as early as three o'clock in the morning.
Q. Of What day?
A. Of the 1st day of August.
Q. Had been called by previous announcement?
A. They called all their meetings in their own manner of calling--by runners. I might say right here, at this point, they had a complete code of signals on the night of the 1st of August. While we placed our sentinels on the top of the buildings we occupied, we could discern lights from one side of the valley to the other--from point to point--a line of different colors and different shades. They had a thorough code of signals so all the way through. You are aware, undoubtedly, that so far as the engineers or the firemen--the strikers--were concerned, they used their own alphabet in telegraphing over the wires. They used their alphabet.
Q. Had there been any assembly prior to their reaching the silk-works?
A. No, sir; this was the meeting.
Q. What time did they leave the silk-works and come to the city?
A. That the other gentlemen, (Mr. Manes,) can give you about the hour when they struck his works. I judge, I left my office somewhere about eleven o'clock.
Q. Were there any railroad men among this crowd that assembled on the 1st day of August?
A. There were some railroad men that I saw at the shops around when I struck the crowd?
Q. What class of men did they seem to be principally?
A. Well, they were mechanics and miners and laborers.
Q. Were there any men from the shops within the city?
A. Yes; there were mechanics and laboring men from the shops. Among the men who were more upon the outskirts, were quite a number of the men who were employés of the shops--men whom I recognized--quite a number of them. As soon as I made the remark that they had better disperse, they commenced, upon the outer portion of the crowd, quite a number, to go through from under the archway, apparently going up the street.
Q. Did you have any difficulty in getting extra police to serve?
A. Yes; the paid specials I wanted to put on for the protection of the company's property, whom I placed for the purpose of relieving the city from any legal liability, after having received these notices, of which I have given you a copy. It was with difficulty I could find men who would accept the position. Quite a number who came and were sworn in on the morning before stopped at noon, and served half a day; but in regard to those that were specials--were paid--those were probably gathered through and by Colonel Hitchcock--a large number of those--quite a large number came to me; that is, volunteered first, and enrolled themselves.
Q. Offered themselves?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And were sworn in?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any difficulty in getting men to serve in that way?
A. No, sir; not in the least. Had all that I deemed was necessary, and more, too.
Q. Had no difficulty in that respect?
A. No, sir.
Q. In getting the paid police that you spoke of first, what was the reason--what objections did they have in serving that way?
A. That was on account of the resolutions that had been passed in some of the meetings of workingmen, in which this vote of censure against me for placing these special policemen on had been passed. These resolutions had been passed without the men having any knowledge--report had it that I was putting five hundred or a thousand special policemen on the city, and putting them on pay. I didn't deem it to be my duty, nor the interest of the city, to let everybody know what I was doing, and this report got it, and this series of resolutions was afterwards passed by the council--first started under a misapprehension.
Q. Then I understand you to say, that it was not on account of any unwillingness of the citizens of Scranton to serve and aid in keeping the peace and good order of the city?
A. There are the facts, just as they are. It was with difficulty that I could get them.
Q. What powers are given you as mayor by the city charter or organization?
A. We are acting under the law of 1874, the Wallace act, where the mayor has the same power as the sheriff to call a posse comitatus, and so on. I might state right here, in regard to the passage of that very act, that I was before the committee, Mr. Merryfield and myself, asking that very power of the sheriff to be given to a city. Or town, as an instance, where we were so far from the county seat, in the case of outbreak, under the old charter the mayor would be helpless.
Q. Did you make any regular call upon the citizens to serve as a posse?
A. I made this call, in which I called those enrolled--my posse. When I went up the street, I might state right here, that Mr. Thomas, a gentleman who will be here, who was one of the committee from the workingmen, came and guaranteed me any aid I might need.
Q. How many did that posse number?
A. One hundred and twenty, sir, enrolled.
Q. Were ready to come at the signal?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You speak of legal liability. Is there any law by which your city is made liable for damages done within your limits?
A. Nothing more, I suppose, than any neglect upon the part of the officers of the city to protect property. It is nothing further, sir.
Q. Any act of Assembly?
A. No, sir. I am not a lawyer, but I presume, if the officers of the city should fail to render abundant protection to property, when notified of its danger, that then the city would be held responsible, in case the property was destroyed.
Q. In the interview that you had with the executive committee of the railroad employés, did you learn what their grievances were, and their reasons for striking?
A. On account of wages--desired more wages.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Were they the first that struck?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had there been any reduction of wages on the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western, or any of the roads leading to your town?
A. Well, sir, I cannot tell you that, sir. The superintendent will be here.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What grievance did the railroad men complain of when they did strike?
A. Only in regard to reduction of wages.
Q. Had no other complaint?
A. I understand that the miners themselves and the laborers in the mine didn't strike. They were forced out of the mines on account of no work the very moment that the railroad ceased operating. That morning, or the next day, at least, mining had to cease, because there was no place to put the coal that they mined; but, upon their coming out, they then assembled together, and asked for an advance of wages.
Q. Had there been any reduction of wages among the miners prior to that strike?
A. The wages had been under a reduction for some length of time.
Q. For several years past?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know when the last reduction was made?
A. No, sir; I don't know the date.
Q. Did you have any interview with the miners?
A. This committee of eighteen represented miners, engineers, and laborers--represented all connected with the mines and all of its parts.
Q. What did they complain of?
A. The engineers of the pumps had some complaint to Mr. Brisbin in regard to not fulfilling the agreement made at the long strike.
Q. The long strike was in what year?
A. In 1872, I think.
Q. I would like to know whether they were railroad engineers or engineers at the pumps?
A. Pumps and collieries.
Q. Any railroad men in this delegation?
A. Not in this delegation of eighteen.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. I understood you to say they were miners, engineers, and brakemen?
A. No, sir: the committee on Monday was firemen and brakemen, not engineers. The engineers were not in the strike.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The committee of eighteen was composed of who?
A. Composed of miners, laborers, engineers, and pumpmen at the mines.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. Not railroaders?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did they state in what respect the agreement had not been carried out by the companies after 1872?
A. They did, sir; in the interview with Brisbin they did very clearly. It was in regard to the pro rata reduction. I didn't take interest enough in it to explain it to you thoroughly, sir. It was a matter between them more. While it was at my office, and the parties were got together at my suggestions, I was there during the whole time, but the matter was more immediately for them to discuss, as I didn't consider it my place to take any part in the discussion, and did not.
Q. What did you ascertain subsequent to the conflict of the 1st of August? What did you find out about the cause that induced that assemblage at the silk-works?
A. They were called together, as I understood, to hear the report of this committee of eighteen.
Q. In the interview with you, did the committee of eighteen state what their purposes or objects were for the future?
A. On this Sunday interview?
Q. Yes?
A. Nothing more than they believed that the companies had been cutting down their wages too much, that they had been extravagant in the management of corporations, that it had come a time for retrenchment, and the retrenchment was all coming over on them as laborers, that they believed they could, by a proper way of disposing of their coal and so on--they had some grievances in regard to that--that better wages could be paid.
Q. Did they intimate about what they intended to do?
A. Nothing more than they wouldn't work until there should be an advance in wages.
Q. Did they give any intimation of any intention to make an attack upon the city and disturb the peace in any way?
A. Directly the opposite, sir; gave me every assurance to aid and support. This question in regard to the large number of strangers that were here, was brought up and discussed, and they felt an anxiety in regard to that very point, that an overt act might bring them into disgrace.
Q. The miners?
A. This committee of eighteen.
Q. What was the object of this delegation calling on the mayor and making this statement? Did they make any demand of you?
A. I sent for them when the companies asked of me. This is a notice I didn't read, and this will more clearly show why I sent for the delegation:
SCRANTON, July 27.
R. H. McKune:
The men employed by this company to fire and operate the engines at our mines for pumping the water therefrom, have by threats and intimidation been driven from their works, and notice given, that any person or persons who should attempt to perform such service would do so at the peril of the lives. This action involves the flooding of the mines, which would cause immeasurable loss and damage to the company. I therefor call upon you for such protection as employés are entitled to under the laws of this Commonwealth.
Signed by
WILLIAM R. STOORS, General Coal Agent.
It was after receiving this from Mr. Stoors that I sent for this committee.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you know that that committee was in existence at that time?
A. By the papers, sir. The meeting was a public meeting, and the names of this committee were published in the papers, sir. Nothing secret about it so far as to the gentlemen who were going upon the committee. This committee had also called upon Mr. Stoors, making a request for more wages, which my scrap book that I have, if I had it here, would give you still fuller than that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What did you advise them in the interview, Mr. McKune?
A. I advised them--they disclaimed of having any knowledge of these parties who were sending letters or attempting to intimidate these men who were at work at the pumps. They disclaimed any knowledge of that, and at this interview stated clearly and distinctly that it was against their wish and desire, and as I said about the proclamation which I issued in regard to this very matter--the proclamation was framed by us there, jointly. The language, if you will read it, you would see that it is very careful--that it is very guarded--there is no implication of anybody being in the wrong--there is a difference of opinion. The whole thing was carefully gone over. Our interview lasted from one until between four and five o'clock. The whole of our interview was extremely pleasant, and they seemed just about as anxious as I was for the protection of property, and in the first draft of the proclamation that I made, there might have been an inference drawn that they were at fault, and we worked until the proclamation which was issued met their views.
Q. I understood you to say that you put persons at the pumps before that interview?
A. No, sir; I had nothing to do with putting them at the pumps. I notified Mr. Stoors, the general agent, in regard to the interview that I had. This was on Sunday, sir, and on Monday the men went to work.
Q. To work at the pumps?
A. Yes; there was more or less intimidation in different parts, even after this. I might state that, sir, and Mr. Stoors probably will be able to give you a better account of the reports that he received.
Q. I understand the pumps were working at the time of the assemblage of this crowd, on the 1st of August?
A. Yes; the pumps were working more or less.
Q. And trains had been started?
A. Yes. The pumps were not being worked by the regular engineers or regular pumpmen.
Q. By whom were they worked?
A. Mostly by men--foremen and other men that understood how to work the pumps, but were not the regular men--were not the men who had previously operated these pumps, in no single instance.
Q. By whom were they sent there?
A. By the company.
Q. The trains were run on that day also?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were the freight trains run?
A. Oh, yes, sir.
Q. All trains?
A. Oh, there was no coal going out, because there was no coal mined. What freight there was through freight, and passenger trains were running on schedule time.
Q. In the crowd of men that were assembled there when you went down to the Lackawanna office--Delaware and Lackawanna was it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any men that you knew--railroad men or mechanics--about the city--the men you were accustomed to see?
A. Oh, yes; saw quite a number standing about. A large number even upon the railway, and a large number of our business men and prominent citizens drawn there to look upon the crowd.
Q. Were any of those engaged in riotous conduct that you knew?
A. No, sir.
Q. Railroad men?
A. No, sir.
Q. Miners?
A. No, sir. The first of the parties who had swept through the shops and who came out from under the shops, there was not a man of them that I recognized as a man I had ever seen before.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. These men that you knew were simply standing about?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were they the men that undertook to protect you?
A. Some of them probably did, sir.
Q. Did any of your mechanics in the city engage in the riots when it was once precipitated?
A. Well, sir, they were among the crowd that passed me as I was coming up Lackawanna avenue. There were quite a number of those that I had passed in going down, and while the cry was being made, "Now for Lackawanna avenue; now for the company's store."
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. They joined with the rioters after you returned?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I wish you would state whether the action of the council in refusing to pay extra police was justifiable. Whether at that time the condition of affairs here was in a condition to warrant them in taking that action?
A. No, sir; it was not, because I had, as I said, but eight special policemen, whom I had sent out to the different parts and to the different properties upon which I received notification, I placed these special men. You, gentlemen, can judge whether a city of thirty-five thousand inhabitants, the larger portion, or a larger per centage of that of the laboring element--whether a force of twenty men is any too great a force as a police and protective force. I leave that for you, gentlemen, to judge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do I understand you to say that you called your council together with a view of then taking some action on this subject?
A. On Wednesday I consulted with a number of the council in regard to whether we had not better call a meeting, and what was best to be done in the matter; but this meeting where these resolutions were passed, I think, was a regular meeting. I am not clear in regard to that.
Q. They declined to meet. Is that what I understand you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What reasons did they give?
A. They thought it was not necessary--the one or two I talked to.
Q. Did they say why they thought it was not necessary?
A. No. Everything was quiet and peaceful.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Then, at this regular meeting, what action did they take in regard to disturbances?
A. There had been none at that time.
Q. But afterwards you said there was a regular meeting?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. This crowd that swept through the shops was headed by a man who was a stranger?
A. They all were strangers.
Q. Was that the same crowd that was fired on in the street?
A. I should judge that some of them were the same.
Q. Were those men that were killed strangers?
A. Two of them were not residents of the city. I believe one of them was.
Q. Were any of your posse killed?
A. No, sir; but two of them were wounded, sir, with pistol shots.
Q. With pistol shots?
A. With pistol shots and with clubs. Two were wounded with pistol shots, and one with clubs.
Q. Did you ever ascertain where those two strangers that were killed came from?
A. Yes; I think one of the killed was from the Sixth ward, and two from the adjoining township--Lackawanna township.
Q. Were they railroaders?
A. Men employed in the mines--around the mines.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were any more of the rioters wounded?
A. There was one man--a young man--was wounded. A one legged Welsh boy that had formerly worked for the Lackawanna Coal Company, and he recovered.
Q. Did you, in your first correspondence with the Governor, did you think that you were able to control matters here in the city, and did you so indicate to him, without the aid of the militia of the State?
A. The following is a copy; I am not clear whether the date is right: "Governor Hartranft, in consulting with my advisory committee, they do not deem troops necessary, and advise against home troops," and further, on the 28th I telegraphed to the Governor again, as follows: "All quiet. I expect to get the pumps in the mines going to-morrow." I telegraphed to the Governor, "The employés of the railroad company have just informed me that their difficulties have been adjusted, or have been settled," and again, on the 29th, I telegraphed to the Governor, "Pumps will start to-morrow. Send no troops until you hear further from me Am in hopes of a peaceful settlement."
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. That was at the time of this agreement.
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What date was that dispatch?
A. The 29th, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What date did you call upon the Governor to send you troops?
A. The 1st day of August, sir.
Q. After the conflict?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. As part of our duties is to find out about the conduct of the militia, I wish the mayor would just state what was the conduct of the militia during their presence here?
A. I can say, in regard to the militia--I don't know much about them, for I have very little knowledge of General Brinton's command that was here, for I was quite severely unwell, and was not out much, any further than going down in my carriage, and calling on General Lyle. In reference to those that remained, you are aware some of them remained here for three months, the Nineteenth, under Hartley Howard, and the First Pennsylvania. Their conduct was most excellent, so much so as to receive the encomiums, upon all sides, of every person.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. You say that you were at Ocean Grove at the time you heard of the Pittsburgh riots?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long had you been there?
A. I had been down a week previous.
Q. Had there been any rumors of any difficulty here, prior to the commencement of the Pittsburgh riots?
A. I telegraphed, on Saturday, to Mr. Halsted, superintendent, like this: "Do you apprehend any difficulty; if so I will return home." He telegraphed me, on Saturday: "I apprehend none; if I do so I will wire you." I have not got a copy of that telegram here.
Q. Did you, from any source, receive any intimation that there was liability to be any strike here, prior to the outbreak at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir; not in the least.
Q. In your judgment, was this trouble here precipitated by the news of the rioting at other places?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You think it grew out of that? That, the news of what was going on at other places, stirred up the workingmen, and incited them to do as they did?
A. Yes; permit me to say that I do not believe the miners would ever have come out of the mines, had the railroad men not suspended, and if the coal had been taken away from them as they mined it, the men would not, in my opinion, have come out of the mines.
Q. You think, then, it was a sort of a fellow-feeling that animated the workingmen here?
A. You might call it an epidemic.
Q. Will you state whether there were any symptoms of any difficulty or uneasiness among the men here prior to the news having been received of trouble?
A. There was none. Everything was the most perfect quiet when I left home.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The fact that the railroad was not carrying away the coal, was not that the cause of the miners coming out of the mines?
A. That is what I say, sir. I wish that to be on record.
Q. Did you ascertain who these men were that were interfering with the pumps at the mines?
A. No, sir; I do not know as I did.
Q. Were they miners on a strike?
A. No, sir; there were no arrests made of those. There were arrests made, afterwards, for an attempt of riot somewhere along about the 20th August, I should think, sir, by one of the companies of Colonel Howard's command--I think some five or six--my record book would tell the date, and soon--who were tried, and afterwards convicted at our county court.
Q. Men engaged in interfering with the pumps?
A. I don't know whether it was that, or an attempt. I think that was an attempt at riot about that date.
Q. Were any of the rioters arrested that were engaged in this riot here, on the streets, afterwards?
A. I think there has been some, sir.
Q. Were any of your posse arrested?
A. Yes; thirty-eight were.
Q. Arrested on information of some of the rioters?
A. The finding of the coroner's jury, sir. A coroner's inquest was held.
Q. Were they tried?
A. They were.
Q. By whom--the court?
A. The court, Judge Harding presiding.
Q. On what charge?
A. Upon a charge of murder--manslaughter.
Q. Were they acquitted?
A. They were.
Q. Were any of the rioters tried, that were arrested?
A. I think there has been, sir. There are other gentlemen here, who had charge of that matter, that will be able to testify better in regard to that than myself.
Q. At the office where you found the young lady, state whether any assault was made upon that by the crowd or mob?
A. None, that I know of.
Q. Was there any made after that time, or where did the crowd go, and what became of the inmates of the office?
A. The attention of the crowd was drawn away from that part over towards me, and the party who came out from the shops.
Q. Had you been informed they were in danger?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that is the reason you went down there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And after you got there, and found the young lady in a fainting condition, you did not consider it advisable to take them away from there, and didn't do so?
A. I didn't? consider it advisable to take them away, and made no effort so to do.
Q. You did not consider it advisable?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did they afterwards escape from the office, and reach their homes?
A. Without any difficulty.
Q. Why didn't you consider it advisable to take them away, if they were in danger?
A. I did not consider they were in danger.
By Mr. Means:
Q. I suppose you considered them more safe, than taking them away in the street?
A. Yes, sir.
* * * * *
Joshua Thomas, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside, if you please?
A. I am residing at Hyde Park.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am a blacksmith.
Q. Were you here in July last, when the difficulty occurred?
A. I was.
Q. On what day was it that the disturbance took place in the streets here?
A. On the 1st of August.
Q. Will you please state whether you had any previous knowledge of the intention or existence of any disturbance, prior to that date?
A. No, sir; I had none.
Q. And what was the first thing that you noticed or discovered?
A. At the silk-factory meeting?
Q. Yes. State whether you were at the silk factory meeting?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For what purpose was that meeting called?
A. As near as I could learn on the streets, the men anticipated hearing the reports of the standing committee of the Delaware and Hudson Canal Company, and they all went down there expecting to hear the committee report as to the result of the intercourse with the company.
Q. That was the committee that had been----
A. There was a meeting held out in the Round woods, and a committee appointed there to confer with the company with regard to their wages, and some time after this meeting was called, by whom I do not know, but the people generally thought that this committee was going to make a report there of the result of their conference with the company, and when we arrived there at the meeting, this committee was not present, and after being there possibly half or three quarters of an hour, the chairman of the committee of the coal and iron company's men, called the meeting to order, and he stated that it was now time to appoint a chairman. There was quite a number of the men present in the meantime, but none of them would serve, finally he was told to serve himself in that capacity, and he did.
Q. What name did you say it was?
A. It was Rudolph Kreshner, and some one asked him from the crowd--there was, possibly, from five thousand to seven thousand people there--asked him what the object of the meeting was, and he told them if they would keep quiet for a few minutes they would learn. He didn't know. He said they would find out, and he talked to some of the men--I could not hear what he said, and then he rose, and he said he believed the meeting was to take some action with regard to those men that were working in the shops at that time, and there was then a party got up and offered a motion that a committee of I can't tell you how many--his motion was, that a committee, however, be appointed to ask these men to leave the work alone for the present, until the difficulty was settled. And after some little discussion, there was a motion made to amend that by making the committee twenty-five. Then that was objected to, on the ground that the companies would discharge all that would be appointed as a committee to go and ask these men to leave their work, and one man, I don't know his name now, he spoke there in favor of a committee of twenty-five, and others again spoke and objected to it, on the ground that they would be discharged--they had been before, and have been since, because they waited on these men. While this motion was under discussion, there was a motion made, that the whole body adjourn, and pass up around by the shops and ask the men to quit their work for the present, until the difficulty was settled with the company. Just at this time there was a man offered a letter to Kreshner, and wanted him to read it. He took up the letter and looked at it, and passed it back to the party and shook his head. Then this man got up on a little stand himself and read the letter to the body. Previous to that there had not been any unkind words, or anything boisterous--nothing out of the way at all, no abusive language, or anything--but as soon as the letter was read it was like a spark in a powder keg.
Q. Now, where did that letter come from?
A. I don't know.
Q. By whom was it signed?
A. It was signed by "Working Man."
Q. How many?
A. One working man.
Q. Just signed "Working Man?"
A. Just signed "Working Man."
Q. Can you give the contents of the letter, or the substance of it?
A. Only partially. It was on note paper. He went on to state--the writer did--to speak of the grievances of the men, how they had suffered short wages and short time, and the additional reductions, &c., and he said that the men could not live. He said, that W. W. Scranton had said, that he would have the men work for fifty cents a day--I don't remember how soon, but for fifty cents a day--or he would bury himself in a culm pile. He went on to state he was sorry he could not be present to-day as he had business elsewhere, but he hoped the men would do their duty, and signed himself "Working Man."
Q. After that letter was read what was done?
A. After that letter was read, there was four, five or six of us--I don't just remember how many--we held a little caucus near the stack--near one end of the silk factory, and we divided; I was to go one side, and another man was to go another side, and try to speak to allay the excitement, but the crowd was so dense we could not get up there. While we were trying to get in, there was a motion made at that time again that the body adjourn to the shops, and ask the men to leave the shops. Even then there was no threats of violence at all, but of course there was some epithets used against W. W. Scranton, but no threats against him at all, nor no threats against any person, or property, or anything.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What do you mean by shops?
A. These shops where the men were working--railroad shops, furnaces, and steel-works. I didn't hear anything said, or any motion made, and the motion was not made to turn them out, but to ask the men to leave the shops.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I want to know what you mean by shops?
A. Railroad shops, steel-works, furnaces, mills, &c.
Q. All the manufactories?
A. Yes; all down on that side. [Indicating.] Then there was some discussion after this by the men backward and forward, and we went back again to the silk-works, and we were talking, and we saw the crowd dispersing. I saw no motion carried, I simply heard them offered and seconded, and put to the meeting, and then they were discussed. I heard the ayes and noes while I was back, but supposed they were voting on the motion; the decision of the chairman I could not tell what it was. Then the men began to disperse, and we stood talking there. We had no idea that any damage was being done. And while we were standing at the silk factory, just on the railroad we came over from the iron and coal company's factory--we could see the men running towards Ward street, in that direction from here.
Q. You remained down there when they started from the shops?
A. Yes; and when we saw these men going that way, we came up the L. and S. railroad, and I was just at the arch near the L. and S. shop when the firing occurred. I just heard it, and that was all, and then I walked right up to the corner here.
Q. When you got to the corner, what did you do?
A. I saw the men lying there dead in the street.
Q. Had the crowd dispersed?
A. Well yes, in the main. There was a great many standing around down the street, and up and down the avenue, walking and talking.
Q. Who notified you of the meeting at the silk-works?
A. Indeed, I could not tell you that. I had it from quite a large number.
Q. Laboring men?
A. Yes--oh yes. A gentleman that told me, said that he understood the D. L. and W. committee was going to make a report.
Q. Was it kept secret?
A. Oh, no, sir.
Q. How long did you know that before the assemblage?
A. I knew that was to be three or four days before that--two or three days.
Q. Why was it called at the silk-works--to meet at the silk-works?
A. Because there was no room elsewhere, unless they would have it up in the Round woods, back of Hyde Park, and that was about just as far over there.
Q. What do you mean by the Round woods?
A. It is a piece of woods that lies west of Hyde Park, commonly known as the Round woods.
Q. Grove?
A. A grove.
Q. How many were assembled there at the silk-works?
A. Well, I should judge there was between five and seven thousand?
Q. Assembled in a hall?
A. Oh, no, sir; out of doors.
Q. What class of men were they?
A. Workingmen.
Q. Railroad men any of them?
A. I do not remember particularly. I did not know a railroad man there. Doubtless there may have been some; but I don't remember of seeing any. Miners, laborers, carpenters, blacksmiths, machinists, teamsters, and so forth. All classes of men--working people.
Q. And they were there hearing the report of the committee appointed by the miners?
A. Of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Company.
Q. To consult with the officers of the company?
A. Yes--beg pardon, sir--they were there; believe that that was the object of the meeting.
Q. Why were the blacksmiths and carpenters and other mechanics generally notified to meet there?
A. They were not notified; but merely heard it talked on the streets, and I went there for one. I was very anxious to learn whether the miners were going to work, for, if they went to work, we stood a chance of getting work in the shops.
Q. Did your work in the blacksmith shops depend upon the work going on in the collieries?
A. Not altogether in the collieries; no, sir.
Q. Carpenters' work would not depend on that at all?
A. Curiosity, as much as anything. A great many of them went there out of curiosity.
Q. Were the men asked there from the shops--the crowd to stop the work--that is, you said the crowd went up to the steel-works, and the factory and machine shops here. Were any of that class of men at the meeting?
A. I only presume they were. I could not say that any one individual was there, but I presume there were, and had good reason to think so. They were Delaware, Lackawanna and Western railroad men were there. That is, miners, not railroad men, but miners. The coal and iron company's men were there--some of them--and some were there from Munica, a village below here, and some from Taylorville, and some from Old Forge, and they were anxious to know what the report would be of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western committee, and they came here, anticipating to hear that report, because the success or the failure of the strike, in the main, was dependent upon the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western men, and if the report of this committee would be of such a nature as would advise the men to work, then the strike would end immediately, while if they held out, I suppose the rest would.
Q. Did you get any report of the committee?
A. No, sir.
Q. Nothing of the kind?
A. Nothing of the kind.
Q. Did you learn what action had been taken by the committee and the officers of that committee?
A. No, sir; not at that time. I do not know whether they had taken any action at all--whether they were prepared to make a report.
Q. Was any motion made to adjourn?
A. Down at that meeting?
Q. Yes?
A. Yes.
Q. That was voted down?
A. No, sir; it was carried, at least I presume it was carried, for this reason. I heard the motion made to adjourn where I was in the crowd. I could not get any further up towards the stand, but I came up, and then I heard a vote taken, and I could hear the "ayes," and they predominated, and I presumed it was on that question, for immediately afterwards the crowd dispersed.
Q. The crowd dispersed in the direction of the machine shops?
A. Up this way. Some went up across the river, waded the river, and went to Hyde Park, and some walked the road, and some came up this way and some up the other road.
Q. How many came towards the steel-works on the flat?
A. I could not tell you how many.
Q. Can you judge?
A. There was probably--may be--fifteen hundred or two thousand walking up the street and walking over that way. They didn't all go to the shops that came up.
Q. Did you know that they started to the shops when they started to persuade the men to quit work?
A. No, sir; there was a motion made to adjourn to the shops to request the men to stop work for the present, until the difficulty was settled between them and the company; that was the motion.
Q. Was that motion carried?
A. I presume it was, but when it was carried we were out of the crowd.
Q. And they all went to the shops, a large number?
A. A large number went up this way, and towards the shops.
Q. Was there any organization--any secret organization here known as the Trainmen's Union, to your knowledge, of the railroad employés.
A. I do not know. I presume there was.
Q. Do you know of such an organization called the Trainmen's Union?
A. No, sir; not as the Trainmen's Union.
Q. Do you know of any organization among the railroad employés?
A. I have understood that there is what is known as an Engineers' Brotherhood.
Q. Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers?
A. Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers; but we had nothing to do with this meeting.
Q. This Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, was that the only organization that you knew of among the railroad men?
A. Oh, I had heard and understood, and it was generally understood, that there was what was called a Firemen's Brotherhood.
Q. And brakemen?
A. And Brakesmen's Brotherhood. Nearly all trades have some sort of union--Machinists', Blacksmiths' Union, Coopers' Union, and so forth.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Beside the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, then, there was an organization of brakemen and firemen?
A. All, sir, independent of each other.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you know that of your own knowledge, or only by hearsay?
A. Hearsay.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any public call for this meeting in the papers or otherwise?
A. No, sir; I didn't see any call; didn't hear of any published call.
Q. How did the idea that there would be a meeting there get abroad?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do you know of any one that advised the meeting?
A. I do not.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Is it the custom of workingmen to congregate in meetings and crowds, that way, and hear the report, for instance, if there is a committee been known as having waited on the officials of a railroad or coal companies?
A. Yes sir; if there was a committee pending between the men and the company, possibly the committee could not afford to issue a call through the papers, and nine, ten, or fifteen of the committee would go around and tell some one, and they would tell others that the meeting would be held at such a place.
Q. Do you suppose that was the way this meeting was called?
A. No, sir; I have no idea how it was called. I have no idea how it was called, not the slightest.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Except you heard it talked among several of the laboring men, that there was to be such a meeting?
A. Yes; or rather asked me if I was going to be at the meeting.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. When the motion to adjourn was carried, and the meeting broke up, did the men that went off to the flats, and come towards the city, go in a body, or with an organization, or was it merely that portion that lived in this end of town, coming home?
A. I should judge, that out of curiosity, some was along with them from different places, but there was no organization. They didn't come in an organized body. They took in the ground between two roads, between the street and the railroad, on the street and on the railroad, and on the ground between, and on the other side of the road. They were scattered along there. I should judge that it is nearly or quite three quarters of a mile from the silk-factory up to the shops and the head of the body--some of them went on; lived at the steel-works, fifty yards or one hundred yards this side of the steel-works. And we looked towards the hill, and we could see the men on the side of the hill; and we could see them, some of them going towards Ward street. There was nothing in the form of a government at all.
Q. You considered the meeting broken up at the time that motion to adjourn was carried?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. This man who read this letter, did he make any remarks in regard to it after he had read it?
A. I do not think that he did.
Q. Don't think he made any comments or advised the crowd what to do?
A. No, sir; he made no comments whatever.
Q. Did any one, after the reading of the letter, make any comments upon it, or advise the crowd what to do?
A. Not upon the letter.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Did he call upon any of the crowd to follow him?
A. No, sir; there was no one that I heard call upon the crowd to follow him. No one. When the motion was made to adjourn, that side of the crowd or of the meeting that was this way, the northern side of it--the north-east of it, came first, some of them, and some stayed back.
Q. Did the greater part of the crowd come down through the shops?
A. Well, I don't know about that. I would not like to say, because I took no particular notice.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the crowd appear to have a head or a leader?
A. No, sir.
Q. Every fellow for himself, was it?
A. So it seemed to be; yes, sir. There was no leader at all.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. They all seemed to have an idea of coming the same way?
A. Not all.
Q. That is, they got headed this way?
A. Well, there was a great many that come up this way; lived that--live over this way. They live back on this side--a great many that came up--and they came down the avenue.
By Mr. Means:
Q. From the commencement to the end, in your opinion, you suppose there was no regular organization?
A. No, sir; there was no regular organization.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You are pretty well acquainted with the laboring men in this vicinity, are you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were those six or seven thousand that assembled there composed of laboring men of this section--Scranton and surroundings--here principally?
A. Oh, yes, sir; principally.
Q. Were there any strangers, tramps or strangers--outside men entirely--outside of this region?
A. I could not answer that, because I do not know as there was.
Q. Did you see any?
A. No, sir; I took no notice of any.
Q. The faces of this crowd was familiar to you, were they, as men that you had seen in the vicinity?
A. Yes; a large majority of them were.
Q. You didn't see the conflict that occurred on the street?
A. No, sir.
At this point, the committee adjourned till to-morrow morning, at nine o'clock.
SCRANTON, March 30, 1878.
The committee met pursuant to adjournment, at nine o'clock in the morning, Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All members present except Mr. Dewees.
* * * * *
W. W. Mannis, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Mannis?
A. Scranton.
Q. What is your business?
A. Superintendent Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company, building and lumber department.
Q. I wish you would just state the facts that came under your observation in reference to the troubles--the strike of July last?
A. On the date of the riot, the 1st of August, in the morning, about eight o'clock, I heard there was a meeting called at the silk-works.
Q. Go on, Mr. Mannis?
A. I heard that there was a meeting called down at the silk-works, and they were going to clean us all out. I made my way around among my men, and went down to the foundry, supposing that would be about the first place they would strike. I stayed there. There had a man gone from our shops to attend the meeting. I asked of the different foremen what was best to do, and we decided that we would continue on. We would not close up our shops--that we would see what their intentions were. May be it was false. Pretty soon this man came back, and said, "You had better shut up. They are coming in a body to clean you out. You had better get out of the way." We had another consultation, and decided we would stand our ground and protect our property. Pretty soon we saw them coming up Washington avenue, across the track. There they halted for a few minutes. Then they filed off, a part of them towards our shops, and the other part came on directly up the street. I should judge there were from fifteen hundred to two thousand that turned towards our shop; and as they came to the shops they scattered into all the shops; some of the men run out. Some started to run out, and they struck and chased them. They went into our boiler shop, where we have a shaft driven by water wheel and a large belt. Five or six caught hold of that to stop it. Says I, "Boys, don't destroy property now. You are only injuring yourselves. Don't come around here and destroy property." They paid no attention to me. I got the attention of one that seemed a leader, and says I, "If you have any control over these men, for God's sake take them back. You are only injuring yourselves." "Damn you," said he, "we have got the power." Says I, "If you were worth anything I would knock your brains out." They says, "Where's Bill Scranton, that is going to make us work for three shillings a day." Says I, "Listen to me. Go back and attend to your work." No; they had the power and they were going to use it. "You have got plenty," they said, "and we ain't. We are going to have our rights." They went into our shop and ordered the man to draw the fire. He started to do it, and then some one struck him with a chunk of iron, and he got up and went through the shop, they pelting him as he went. His shirt was torn off him, and his back was bloody. Another one started to run behind the foundry, and they were after him, and throwing stones and chunks of iron and cinder and anything they could get. They got the shops all cleaned out, and they started for the blast furnace. I heard one man sing out. Says he, "I know the way; follow me." With that I started on ahead of them. Before that, while they were standing in front of the machine shop, there was some one got up on a piece of casting. "Now," says he, "fetch on your Bill Scranton. Where is he? We'll gut him. We'll have his heart's blood." Says I, "Don't talk so loud. You are crazy. You do not know what you are talking about." He turned to me with some abuse; "that they had the power now, and they were going to use it--that they were going to gut Scranton." Says I, "You had better keep off Lackawanna avenue or some of you won't get home." They started to the furnace, but I got ahead of them, and went on ahead to notify the men to take off the blast and fix the furnace, and met the foreman and told him they were coming. He ran to the furnace and took the blast off. The most of the men scattered, I don't think they got hold of any of them. I passed through the casting-house, up the steps to the engine-house. There was a lot of them behind me following me up. They came in contact with our boiler tender, an old man sixty or seventy years old. They knocked him down. I went to the engine-house. The engineer was coming out of the engine room--they had brought him out. He had walked across the street. Says I, "Come back, the boiler will blow up in twenty minutes with the steam you have got, if you stop the pumps." The leader of that gang came up and they surrounded me, and swore if they would put that man back in there again they would blow my brains out. Says I, "Gentlemen, you had better go back home; turn right around and go, or you will miss it." Says I, "Don't come around here and destroy property." They soon passed off, and came down toward the shops. I had nothing at all with me to protect myself. I had a pistol at home. I ran up home and got that and put it in my pocket, and went back to the engine-house again. Found the engine-house was afire in two places. The engineer had gone back and put it out, and drew the fire from the boilers. Then I started up to the railroad, toward the company's store again, and as I came right in front of the company's store the men had just filed out of the store--this posse--and came down the street, and as they crossed Washington avenue, the street was literally filled up with men, but they seemed to open and let this posse through, and as they went through the gap closed up again. Then I heard two or three pistol shots, and pretty soon I heard the rifle cracks--more than two minutes, maybe less--heard the rifles crack, and pretty soon they began to scatter. In a very few minutes I saw the posse come back, and the streets were pretty well cleared. I started down this way to where the shooting was; and I got part of the way down and I met them coming, one man on a litter--that was near Mr. Phillips'--his father was behind. I met them walking back towards the company's store.
Q. Was this one of the posse?
A. No, sir; he was one that was with the rioters. He is a Welshman, a very bad character; had but one leg. He was with them, and he was shot through the arm. The ball passed through the fleshy part of the arm. I thought he was dead, but he recovered again and is now at work. Previous to the 1st of August, they had driven our men and sent our men out of the shops. My shops are on the other side, the car smith shop is on the other side of the engine-house--part of them went over and took them out. Before the day of the strike they had notified them several times that they should stop work. In fact, they had stopped pretty near all my men. There was not more than half a dozen to work at that time. Ordered them to stop work.
Q. Had you had any difficulty with your men previous to the 1st of August.
A. No, sir; I had not.
Q. Did they all continue to work?
A. No, sir. Our men came out--I forget the date. Our puddlers were the first men to strike in the city.
Q. What day did they strike?
A. They struck at noon. I think it was Tuesday night the engineers and railroads all stopped. That was on Tuesday night. I do not remember the date, but the engineers and firemen stopped. Our puddlers all came out that day at noon.
Q. What day do you think that was?
A. That was the day that the engineers stopped at night--at noon.
Q. On the railroads?
A. Yes. Our railroad stopped here at night.
Q. Was it the Tuesday after the fire at Pittsburg--the burning at Pittsburgh?
A. Really, I could not say, sir. It seems to me it was before that, but I won't be positive of that. I forget what day our railroad stopped.
Q. Tuesday, after the trouble at Pittsburgh, your railroad stopped?
A. Then it was that Tuesday noon our puddlers stopped. The puddlers stopped at noon as the men came out at night.
Q. How many of them?
A. I should judge there were near a hundred.
Q. What did they complain of?
A. They made no complaints. It was like a perfect panic among them. They said the first thing they knew, the whistle blew at the mill, and "now come on," and they all came down to the steel mills, took the men with them there, and went down to the machine shops and foundries and stopped the men there. They did not succeed in stopping the foundry. They stopped the men at the machine shops. They had not asked for anything prior to that time. Had not asked for any advance. Mr. Scranton went down as soon as he heard of it, and asked them what they wanted, or had some talk with them. Maybe he could tell more about it than I could.
Q. Had they complained of low wages prior to that time?
A. It has been a complaint all through about low wages. I had not heard anything from our men. I suppose I have probably one hundred or one hundred and fifty men under my employ.
Q. You had heard nothing from them?
A. They had made no complaints to me.
Q. In any way?
A. No, sir.
Q. What were you paying these men?
A. The puddlers?
Q. Yes?
A. I could not tell you. They work by the ton, do not know what it was. It is not in my department.
Q. Was this W. W. Scranton employed in the works in which you were superintendent?
A. Yes; he is general manager.
Q. Were any of those puddlers in the crowd that came up from the silk-works?
A. I do not know, sir. There was not a single face I knew. All the crowd that I saw, that I came in contact with, were strangers to me, and looked to me more like miners than laborers.
Q. What proportion of the number of men that you had employed, was at work on that day--the 1st day of August?
A. I should suppose, probably not more than--you mean in my department--probably one fourth.
Q. Take it in the whole shops--what proportion were at work?
A. Probably one fourth. The others had been intimidated by threats and some had been assaulted before that, because they had continued to work. They had been notified that they should not work.
Q. Had you heard of any discontent among the men, or had there been any discontent or any strike contemplated, so far as you learned, prior to the news of the strike at Pittsburgh reaching here?
A. There had not anything positive. I knew there was a very bad feeling among the men, I knew the men felt sore and uneasy, didn't seem contented or happy. I had not heard any threats of any strike.
Q. What about?
A. About low wages. The companies had been oppressive, and they ought to have more, and there seemed to be a general dissatisfaction and bad feeling.
Q. Had the wages been reduced any last year, during the summer?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When were they reduced?
A. I think our reduction took effect the 1st of July--a general reduction among the mechanics, I think.
Q. How much did you reduce the wages?
A. I think it was ten per cent.
Q. Was that reduction general among the companies in Scranton?
A. I think it was, I would not be positive about that, I think it was.
Q. Did it extend to the miners--had there been any reduction in miners' wages?
A. No, sir; I think not. I think there had not been any since the 15th of last March.
Q. Simply applied to mechanics?
A. There had been a reduction in March of miners' wages--I think it was March there was a general reduction.
Q. How much of a reduction was made then?
A. I could not tell. That was something I had not anything to do with at all.
Q. Can you tell what the class of men were getting in the shops you had charge of?
A. How much they were getting?
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. About?
A. From $1 50 to $2 25.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What class of men were getting $1 50?
A. Ordinary carpenters and car-makers.
Q. What class getting $2 50?
A. Our best blacksmiths and some of our best carpenters.
Q. Some of the best carpenters getting $2 50?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What would the wages average? Take it on an average?
A. Among mechanics?
Q. Yes.
A. I think it would average, probably, $1 75.
By Senator Yutzy':
Q. This man that was wounded, is still here in the city working?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he actively engaged in the riot?
A. I do not know.
Q. Never was arrested?
A. No, sir; his father is a very good mill hand, and through the influence of his father, and the sympathy with his family----
By Mr. Means:
Q. Had he been in your employ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is he in your employ now?
A. Yes, sir; he was a short time ago, and I think he is. His father is a boss heater. It was his father's influence--we had a good deal of sympathy for the family. They are poor.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Can you give us an estimate--an approximate estimate of the amount of loss sustained, by reason of the riot, in the works of the company?
A. I could not swear. The principal loss was the furnace. We had two furnaces in blast. They were filled up full. That was a complete loss. It is very expensive to cut them out.
Q. Chilled, were they?
A. Both chilled.
Q. Who can give us the probable loss?
A. W. W. Scranton.
Q. You said you were notified that there would be a meeting at the silk-works, and they were going to clean your shops out. How did you get your notice?
A. The superintendent of the blast furnace told me.
Q. Do you know where he got his information?
A. I do not. I presume he got it from some of his men there.
Q. Got it from some of the hands that heard it talked?
A. Yes; how he got it I do not know. We were doing some work at the old mine, and I came through the blast furnace; says he, "There is a big meeting this morning." Says I, "Where is it? I guess we had better go down." Says he, "They have a rousing meeting, and they are going to clean us all out to-day, and you had better be on the lookout." Says I, "I will keep my eye open." That is Carl McKinney, he is superintendent of the blast furnace.
Q. You do not know whether it was some of the men that wanted to notify him so that he would be on his guard or not who gave this information?
A. I do not. I rather mistrust so, though, thought it was some man he had put for that purpose. I imagine so, he seemed to know pretty well how it was going to be conducted.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Is he still here, this man, superintendent of the furnace?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is his name?
A. Carl McKinney.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long was it before your men resumed their work after the strike?
A. When our mechanics went to work after the strike?
Q. Yes?
A. There was not any general resumption of work until after the miners commenced working again. I do not recollect how long they were out, now.
Q. Was it a month?
A. Yes; it was more than a month, I think.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Some time in September or October?
A. I think it was near the 1st of October.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Before your works started up again?
A. Yes; but I wouldn't be positive about that. I am a poor hand to remember dates.
Q. Where were the men during the time the works were standing?
A. They were around home scattered. They were some of them that wanted to work, who would go out in the country and get work. Some of them laid around--loafed around.
Q. Unemployed?
A. Unemployed principally. Our men--I could have worked a good many more men if they would have worked, but they were afraid; men were actually afraid, my men told me. I could not get enough hardly to do what work I had to do. Tried to prevail on them to work. They said they would like to work but were afraid. I had a few at work, and several of them as they were going home they were stoned. They said if they didn't stop work they would burn every building down.
Q. What class of men were those that made these threats?
A. They were German and Irish.
Q. Were any of them arrested?
A. I don't know that any of them were arrested. The men were actually afraid to work. There was a great many glad to work, but they didn't dare. I know it was the case with my men.
Q. Was any effort made by the civil authorities here to arrest the men that were threatening others and intimidating them?
A. All that I could hear of were arrested--that any one would complain of. These men that they had made the threats to daresn't report them, or it would not have been safe for them. They would have lost their property and their lives, undoubtedly. I had one man working that lived over in the Twelfth ward. He daresn't go to his dinner. He would have his dinner brought to him in the shop. He would go out early in the morning. Daresn't carry a dinner can. I never saw such a state of things among the men in my life. Never saw such a wild set of men as the men were that morning.
Q. Those men that threatened to stone those that wanted to work, were they men that had formerly been in your employ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did your company take any means--adopt any plan--to bring those men to justice?
A. They did all they could, but they couldn't get the evidence without bringing these men they had made the threats to prosecute. The mayor told me once himself that any man that he could find out that had made any threats of that kind, that could be proved, to bring them right before him. I could get no man willing to go and swear to it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did your company reëmploy any of those men that made threats?
A. Not if they knew it. I don't think they did. They would send squads around, half dozen in a squad, and wherever they found a company man at work, they would want to know who they were at work for. If they were at work for the company, they must quit--if they work individually, they could go on. I had some men at work about five miles out, and there were a party of men went out, and wanted to know if they were working for the company. They told them a lie, and said they were working for men that lived out there. They said, "If you are working for the company you have got to stop."
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. I would like to ask the gentleman whether those were men or boys, or what aged men they were?
A. I think it run from fifteen to forty.
Q. They were men most of them, were they?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Men of mature years?
A. Yes; they were men. I should judge the majority of them were between twenty and thirty, by their looks.
Q. Do you know the men composing the mayor's posse? Were you acquainted with them?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What character of men were they?
A. They were some of our best men--most of them. They were of good standing.
Q. And character?
A. Yes, sir. I would say nearly all. There might have been one or two that wouldn't bear sifting; but they were composed of our best men. They were headed by W. W. Scranton, and Chittenden up here, and that class of men. They were all young men of good standing.
* * * * *
James E. Brown, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside.
A. Ninth ward, city of Scranton.
Q. What is your business?
A. Hardware.
Q. Hardware merchant?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. If you will just give us a statement of the facts that came under your observation of the riots here?
A. How far back do you want I should go? I was one of the officers of the posse before the riot, and was with the mayor all through the crowd down there.
Q. Commence with the origin of it?
A. There was a great deal of excitement among all the laboring classes here, and a great many threats and rumors were current that property was going to be destroyed. After they had been current several days, a large number of young men here in the city, in talking over matters, made up our minds that something ought to be done to protect property, and it resulted in a meeting being called, and a paper circulated and largely signed, and the meeting was held at the club room of the Forest and Stream Club, to organize and decide what course we would take. We met and decided that we would organize in a sort of a military style, with the express intention of protecting property; but not interfering in any way between the laboring men and their employers. We had nothing to do with their quarrels, but we must protect our own property and the property of the citizens.
Q. When was that meeting called?
A. I cannot tell you the date. I could get it. It was near about the time, I think--immediately after the Pittsburgh riots.
Q. Had these rumors of difficulty and of attack upon property and destruction of property existed here before the Pittsburgh riots?
A. I cannot say just the dates. I didn't pay much attention to it. I thought, like a good many others, it was doubtful that there would be any trouble. We organized as fully as we could, and were careful who we allowed to belong to the party, and after the organization, who we elected went down to the mayor. Of course, we proposed to act through him and under his authority, and in no other way. He welcomed us and took proper steps to give us a legal standing. It was understood that we were to turn out only at the call of one of the officers, and a proper signal was agreed upon to be given, and that signal was only to be given by one of the other officers, and by no other persons; and as I happened to live nearer to the bell than any one else, it was understood that I was the only one to go out at night. A person was on duty all the time at the mayor's office to give me notice if that signal was to be rung if there had been any trouble. Things went on that way--rumors were constantly flying about--until, I think it was, the first Monday in August, when we met as usual at night. There was reports they were going to make an attack that night on the company's store I think, and we met, when I had a long talk with the mayor, as well as a great many others of the posse, and he told us of this meeting to be held at the silk factory on Wednesday. That he was perfectly certain there was going to be no more trouble; that everything was in a very satisfactory condition, and the same story again on Tuesday. That night word came to us they were going to throw a train off the track above the iron company's store, and they wished us to be on hand and see that if that was done there would be a force there to preserve order. We stayed there until a little after twelve, and in view of what the mayor told us of the train coming in all right, peaceable, and quiet, we made up our minds we had fooled with this thing long enough, and I saw Captain Ripple in the morning, and we agreed it was time to stop all that performance, and we would have nothing to do with it unless news came somewhat different from what we had. I went to the store as usual, and was around there. Knew of the meeting at the silk factory. Saw a crowd coming down there--from the upper stories I could see the crowd coming down there. I came down the street, and was talking with several members of the posse. The streets were very crowded. A great many strangers here--strange faces. Along towards eleven o'clock--between ten and eleven--members of the posse commenced to come to me and say they didn't like the looks of the meeting down here, and they wanted me to act--to do something. Captain Riddle was at his works, and was not expected to be here all day, and I was the only one that was here that had any authority to give the signal.
Q. You were one of the three officers?
A. Yes, sir; I laughed at the notion of there being any trouble, and was so confident that the meeting with the railroad men had been so satisfactory, that I thought there was no danger whatever. Along just about eleven o'clock, near that, a man came to me and was very excited, and told me that the meeting had broken up and were coming up this way, and it was time to act. I told him, well, if you are afraid, go into the company's store--tell everybody you see to go to the company's store--I shall stay here until something more occurs. I went back to the store, saw that the crowd was getting more excited, and I commenced telling every man I saw to go to the company's store. I stayed in front of the store two or three minutes--the store is on the corner where the riot took place, and one of the Logan boys came over and said they wanted the signal given from the company's store. I told him we must have the mayor's order first, and to go down and tell the mayor I was there at the store, and if he wanted the signal given I would give it immediately. He went down and reported to the mayor, and his brother, at the time, standing there over the bell that nobody should ring it, and he had not been gone long before the messenger came then at the company's store who had been sent down to ring the bell, and I could not do it. I sent back word I would get the mayor's order and ring it immediately. I met the chief of police, and said they had sent down to have the signal rung, and they were driving the men out of the blast furnaces, and he said, don't give the signal. He said, send every man you see to the company's store. We went down Washington avenue, and went under the arch. There was a great many saw him going into the crowd where the disturbance was. They were then driving the men out of the car shops--cheering, and others hissing. He made a remark something like this: "Boys you better go home; you better get away from here;" and went on through the crowd. Some spoke and looked, and some started as if they were going to leave. There was no perceptible difference. We went as closely as we could, until we got to Mr. McKinney's office. He went up about to the door. Just as he got to the door the crowds were coming out of the shops. The crowds seemed to strike there--the lookers-on and the rioters. Some that came out of the shops were very much excited, brandishing their sticks around. The mayor started to come back. Just as he turned around and got a little back, I saw him struck over the head with a club. He turned around and went to see who struck him, and started off again. There was a movement made in the crowd as if to protect him, and I was separate from him, I believe, five or six feet. I kept as close to him as I could. Neither of us were armed. Both of us were perfectly helpless, that is, we had not even a stick, and he was struck again. Meanwhile, the crowd as they came out of the shops, didn't seem to recognize him, and they said, "Who is he?" and I guess a dozen voices answered, "The mayor. Protect him." Some said--a great many said, "God damn him, kill him. What is he doing there?" Just then a pistol was fired. I saw the smoke of it. He evidently had it in his hand, and in getting it up the crowd was so thick it went off. Two or three rushed to strike him, and two or three rushed to protect him. The crowd was very thick just then. Father Dunn came along, and took hold of the mayor's arm, and marched him off. Another effort was made by the crowd to protect Father Dunn and the mayor, but especially Father Dunn. A great many more tried to protect him. When I speak of the crowd, I mean the men who had been driving the men out of the car shops. They says, "Who is he--Father Dunn--God damn him, kill him. What is he doing here?" That cry was repeated. After I got out of the crowd, I would have sworn that I saw Father Dunn struck, although he denies it, but I still believe, in my mind, that he was struck. After we got a little further, a man jumped from my side and struck the mayor on the cheek, with either a billy or a slung shot. That was the blow that broke his jaw. That man I wouldn't recognize again. I never saw him before, but from the view I had of the men who were killed, I think he was one of the men who were killed. As we got further along towards the arch--after we got out under the arch--towards Lackawanna avenue on to Railroad alley, the police took hold of the mayor, and helped him on to the street. I saw the rear of our store was open, and I knew what threats had been made, and I jumped into the store and told them to close the front up. I thought that might be a very good place to start a fire. At the same time, I went to get a pistol. I tried to lock the front door, and as I looked over my shoulder, I saw the posse coming down the street. I jumped for the head of the posse. Stones were thrown, pistols were fired, and I heard one shot, I think it was, and I immediately turned around and yelled, "Don't fire!" My impression was they were not in any position, and they wanted to avoid a conflict with the crowd, if possible; but immediately after that, stones came from the other track parties by us, and there was another pistol shot or two--I couldn't say how many--and I saw a crowd throwing stones, and I turned around and I said, "Give it to them boys." Then the volley was fired, and immediately from that side between Colson's store and the next--the crowd over there--and I told them to give it to them, and they turned the guns that way; and by that time the crowd had got so thoroughly panic stricken that the riot was over.
Q. How many were there in your posse that were firing?
A. There was just fifty-one men with myself. As they came down the street they counted thirty-eight. I had the names of the whole posse, and from evidence I know--positive evidence--I know there was just fifty-one men.
Q. They were all present at that time?
A. Our whole posse was over a hundred.
Q. Was the signal given?
A. No, sir; I would not give it without the mayor's order. He was completely bewildered after this blow breaking his jaw. He was struck three or four other times, and just as soon as he could, got out of the crowd. I ran to give the signal, but I wanted my pistols first. I thought we were going to fight, and I wanted to be armed. Before I could get near the church to give the signal, the firing took place, and the whole thing was over. They ordered the men to fall in on Washington avenue, and they all fell right in without any excitement, just like old veterans, and we went straight to the company's store, and by the time we got to the company's store, a great many citizens were there to support us. I had no idea they were whipped. I supposed they would merely go around through the yard and attack us again. We went to the company's store to prepare to meet them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who was given command of this posse?
A. There was no officer in command. W. W. Scranton had brought them out. They had gone there and got their guns, and W. W. Scranton had as much command as any one. I had command as soon as I got with them.
Q. Were your men sworn in as special policemen?
A. These also had written authority from the mayor.
Q. You said that the intention of your posse was to protect the property of private citizens. Did you intend to leave the property of corporations at the mercy of the mob?
A. No, sir; that is, we intended to protect common property which would damage the city if it were destroyed. We did not want to be sworn in. We would be sworn in, but we wished to be placed in such a position that we would not be forced to go over to breakers or outlying property in any direction to protect it, but property here in the city, for instance, the company's store we would protect. We did not wish to be mixed in any such way that we would have to take sides as between strikers and the man that wanted to work. It was not our business, we were not serving for pay, we were only serving for our own protection.
Q. I understood that was the case, but the language might be construed otherwise?
A. We could not draw the line between private property and corporation property.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You better explain more fully the object of the organization?
A. The object of the organization--we understood the cry had been raised all through in all directions among--I can't say whether there were miners or laborers, but among the worthless set of men who were in one thing or another, and hardly ever did a stroke of honest work, that they were going to gut Lackawanna avenue, that was the cry, and we organized to prevent any such thing as that taking place. We wished distinctly, and had it understood as distinctly, that the quarrels of men with their employers were nothing to us. We did not wish to side with the companies or men.
Q. The question of wages between the men and the company?
A. That was not for us to decide.
Q. You organized for protection?
A. Merely for protection of the property of the city. We had up to the time of the riot the best wishes of a large portion of the laboring class.
Q. How was it after the riot?
A. Then came a question of order. Three men were killed--whether in killing these three men we were justifiable, and under the excitement, a great many would privately tell us they thought we were justifiable, at the same time to hear them talk in a crowd, you would think they were not.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were tried, and the court sustained you?
A. Sustained us.
Q. How many were arrested of the posse and tried?
A. We were all tried--no we were not all tried. There were two indictments brought, one was for murder, and one was for manslaughter. Those they supposed had done the shooting were tried for murder and acquitted, and those that were under indictment for manslaughter--the whole thing was nolle prossed. The same evidence that failed to convict the men of murder would have to be used on the trial for manslaughter.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where were you tried?
A. Wilkes-Barre.
Q. Before what judge?
A. Harding. I was not tried; I was indicted for manslaughter only, because at the time the firing took place I had no weapons about me.
Q. All that were tried were acquitted?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was the case ever submitted to a jury?
A. Yes; the murder case was submitted to a jury.
Q. Under the instruction of the court?
A. Yes. It was so plain a case, we had so many men hurt, and we could prove so many stones thrown and pistol shots fired at us. We had four men altogether, wounded--one man shot in the leg, one man a pistol ball took him right across the fingers--it made no wound to speak of, still the intention was to hit him, and that same ball struck a gun and left its mark in the wood, and on the iron. Another ball that was fired whistled by my head and broke a plate-glass window.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did this all occur before your men fired?
A. The shooting of this pistol--the man who fired that pistol was killed. Two men were struck, and badly hurt with stones, and the men that threw these stones were killed. All this took place before a single shot was fired from our side.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were there any other stores broken into and robbed?
A. No, sir; not robbed. Our store was broken into, but it was by the mob, in their efforts to get away from the guns.
Q. After you were arrested, tell what took place in regard to your being arraigned before a magistrate.
A. We were not arrested; there were no arrests, virtually no arrests made. We voluntarily gave ourselves up, after this coroner's inquest had taken place, which was a coroner's inquest held by an alderman, an illegal inquest, as decided by Judge Harding. An inquest was held, and myself, as well as a number of others, were found guilty of murder, and warrants issued for the arrest.
Q. Were you charged with murder?
A. Found guilty by the coroner's inquest of murder, so far as a coroner's inquest could do that. Among the number found guilty, were men, who--or accused of it--were men who were not in the posse, and had no connection with it, and it was known to every one, who were blocks away from Lackawanna avenue. One of them was three blocks away from Lackawanna avenue, at the time the firing took place; another one was in his barn, one block away from Lackawanna avenue; and another one, I doubt whether he was in the city; another one was inside the store--of our store. Both the Messrs. Hunt who were found guilty--were brought in by the coroner's jury, charged with murder, had no connection in any way, shape or manner with the posse, and were not present at it, the elder Mr. Hunt, being inside of the store, and the younger one, being over two blocks away. Warrants were issued for the arrest of the elder Mr. Hunt, and some others, and Mr. Hunt was arrested. This was done at night. It was understood that we would be arrested at night, and taken in carriages to Wilkes-Barre, and not allowed a chance to consult counsel, and taken down through Taylorville, where a large number of this crowd had come from, and where two of this crowd that were killed lived, and then probably lynched. As soon as any notice was given of these arrests, word was carried immediately to General Huidekoper's head-quarters, who was then stationed at the company's store, to come along on the track, and scattered where they would do the most good. He immediately ordered a company down, and took the prisoners from the constable, holding himself personally responsible for their delivery to the proper authorities. That was done, because no one had any idea that the coroner's inquest was a legal affair, and that the lives of the men arrested were not worth that, if they were taken off at night, because any one of them could be arrested in the day time. Any one of us could be arrested at any hour of the day, if they had seen fit to do so, and it was merely an action of revenge on the part of the crowd. The next day, all that were in any danger of arrest, voluntarily went to Wilkes-Barre, and entered bail.
Q. How many were arrested by that constable?
A. Two.
Q. And they were taken from the custody of the constable by this company of Huidekoper's?
A. Yes, sir. Undoubtedly other arrests would have been made, but they did not care to go under his guns to do it. We put ourselves under his guns, and spent the night there.
Q. Had they warrants against all the posse?
A. They were not able to find out. We were not allowed any access to what they were doing. It was all secret.
Q. Coroner's jury?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Warrants issued by the coroner?
A. By an alderman, acting as coroner.
Q. And placed in the hands of this constable?
A. To arrest. The constable told me that he had a warrant for my arrest that night, but refused to serve it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you ascertain what force accompanied the constable to make these arrests?
A. No, sir. There was quite a crowd apparently hanging on, but the constable made the arrest alone. The idea was to hurry the men off quietly, without letting us know anything about it, and get them out of the reach of assistance.
Q. Who were the two men that were arrested?
A. T. T. Hunt and C. B. Chittenden.
Q. Were they part of your posse?
A. Hunt had nothing whatever to do with it.
Q. What was Hunt's business?
A. Hardware merchant.
Q. Was Chittenden a member of the posse?
A. He was a member of the posse.
Q. Did he participate in the conflict?
A. I am not certain whether he did or not.
Q. In endeavoring to suppress the riot?
A. I am not certain whether he was in the squad or not. I know he belonged to the general committee--the general posse. If he was not there, he probably would have been if he had had an opportunity.
Q. What class and character of men was that posse composed of?
A. The best men of the town. Merchants and lawyers, business men generally.
* * * * *
J. H. Powell, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I reside in Hyde Park, this city.
Q. What is your business?
A. At present I am not doing anything. My last business was editor of the Industrial Advocate.
Q. In July last what were you?
A. At that time my occupation was a miner.
Q. And in August?
A. At that time my occupation was a miner.
Q. In whose employ were you?
A. D. L. and W. Co.
Q. Delaware, Lackawanna and Western?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what capacity were you employed?
A. Miner.
Q. As foreman, or as----
A. No, sir; miner.
Q. How far were you--was it from the city of Scranton where you worked in July?
A. We were not at work at the time. During that time they were on a strike.
Q. About the 20th of July--were you not at work at that time?
A. I presume not. I presume we were on a strike the 20th of July.
Q. Did all the miners----
A. I am not positive whether we commenced the strike----
Q. Did all the miners employed by the company strike?
A. It was a general strike. I presume it was a tidal wave that went through the country. The first commencement of the strike was the railroad men struck, and they blocked the mines to a stand still, and the miners at the meeting joined hands with the whole country.
Q. The miners struck?
A. They called a meeting, and decided to make a demand for higher wages.
Q. Had you stopped work before you called that meeting?
A. There was a meeting--a preliminary meeting--there was some of the mines idle for want of cars.
Q. Take the company that you were working for--the men that you were working with--did they strike, or were you stopped for want of work to do?
A. I could not state positive with regard to the whole mines. Part of the mines stopped for want of cars.
Q. I am asking whether yours stopped for want of cars?
A. At that time I was unable to attend to my work on account of sickness.
Q. Then you had not been at work for several weeks?
A. I was only working every other week. I could not work on account of sickness at the time.
Q. What day did they hold that meeting and agree to join hands with the railroad employés?
A. I am not positive of the date of that?
Q. Was it before or after the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. It was after the strike at Pittsburgh.
Q. Was anything done by the miners here about a strike before the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had you held any meetings or contemplated a strike until after you heard of the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir; did not know of any meetings.
Q. Then that was the beginning of it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The railroad employés struck first, I understand you to say?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they send any word or have any interviews with the miners to persuade the miners to strike?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. The miners held a meeting and resolved to strike also. Is that the way of it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long after the railroad employés struck?
A. I presume, if my memory serves me, it was about a week after the railroad strike, so far as I remember. I did not take any notice of it.
Q. Did the miners have any organization, any societies among themselves?
A. I presume that they had an organization. They used to have organizations. What they termed the W.B.A.
Q. Had they any in last summer--in 1877?
A. I presume they had.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know the existence?
A. I may as well say that I knew of the existence of the W.B.A.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Workingmen's Benevolent Association?
A. No; it was the old organization.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the new organization?
A. The new organization, I presume, the title is the Knights of Labor?
Q. What were the objects of the organization?
A. The only object of the organization is men combined together to elevate labor?
Q. Are you a member of the organization?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was it secret?
A. There were secrets in it.
Q. Was it confined entirely to miners?
A. No, sir.
Q. Other classes of laboring men--did it take any?
A. Took in mechanics, and all that earn their living by the sweat of their brow.
Q. Took in railroad employés?
A. Any class in.
Q. Can you give us the extent of that organization?
A. I could not, sir.
Q. Do you know whether it extends throughout the State, or whether it is confined to the coal region?
A. I do not believe it is confined. I do not know that it is confined to any place.
Q. How many lodges do you know of, or did you, at that time?
A. I could not tell you, sir. I am not posted in the organization.
Q. Was there a lodge here in Scranton?
A. There was.
Q. More than one lodge?
A. There were several lodges. I could not state how many.
Q. Do you know whether there were any lodges in the vicinity of here, around in the townships?
A. I presume there were lodges throughout the county.
Q. All through the county?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Are those lodges composed of different trades--different branches of the trades? They are all organized--that is, for instance, miners into one----
Mr. Lindsey: No; he has just said, they took in all classes of laboring men, miners, and mechanics.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. I understand that. I want to understand whether he means a lodge, composed of those men generally, or whether they are lodges of each trade, and these lodges compose the organization or delegates from them?
A. I presume that there are lodges of different trades.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Under the same title?
A. The same title.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Take the lodge to which you belonged. Were they composed entirely of miners?
A. No, sir.
Q. What other classes of men belonged?
A. Mechanics, carpenters, engineers, miners.
Q. Were there any railroad employés?
A. I do not know of any.
Q. In your lodge?
A. I do not know of any. There may be.
Q. Carpenters?
A. Carpenters.
Q. Blacksmiths?
A. Blacksmiths.
Q. Miners?
A. Miners.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What class of engineers?
A. Stationary engineers; not railroad.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You only include those employed in collieries and about collieries in your organization?
A. All employed around collieries.
Q. Can you give us the extent of the organization in the city?
A. I could not.
Q. Do you know how many members it has throughout the State?
A. I could not say.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Approximate about?
A. I have no "about" about it.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Have you not heard an estimate of the number in this vicinity or this county?
A. No, sir; I have not see anything official, more than it is stated somewhere, from thirteen thousand to fifteen thousand.
Q. In this vicinity?
A. In this county. That was the estimate. I have nothing official about it.
Q. The object is for the elevation of labor?
A. The object is the elevation of labor by honorable means and legal means.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Is it beneficial?
A. No, sir; only so far as helping a brother when he is in necessity.
Q. That is what I mean?
A. Yes; beneficial.
Q. If a man is sick or out of work or in distress, then he is helped?
A. Out of employment. In distress.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Is it not more for assistance in case of a strike in distress than in case of sickness?
A. This labor organization, it is on account of distress; for instance, a man out of labor and in distress--a family in need; it is a matter of charity.
Q. You do not understand me, or if you do, you do not take it right. If a man strikes, he is helped quicker than if he is taken sick; was he not?
A. I don't know of any proviso with regard to men that strike. If a man is thrown out of employment, or deprived of employment, and in distress, and wants help to go somewhere where he can get employment, the object is to help him along, in order to sustain his family.
Q. Do they ever assist the miners of a colliery that are on a strike?
A. There is no proviso for strikes. Their funds would not afford them to.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. If a man loses his employment from any cause, he receives assistance?
A. Not any amount. A man, for instance, is deprived of employment, and wants to go somewhere in search of employment--just help him a few dollars to get employment elsewhere.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Is it a part of the objects of the association to organize in strikes case they think it is best in order to get their wages raised? If they are dissatisfied with regard to wages, is it a part of the intent of the society to organize?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or to help them on to arrange the machinery for a strike, so that it will all come off together?
A. There is nothing connected with that organization, only to elevate labor by legal means.
Q. I suppose they would not call striking, quitting work, illegal means?
A. No; my view of the question, a man has just as much right to quit work, and that is legal.
Q. But that is a question, whether this is a part of the objects of the association. Whether in case the men felt that they have been aggrieved by the reduction of wages--whether the association acts as a unit in forwarding a strike, in assisting the men, to all quit work simultaneously?
A. Oh, no; nothing of the kind.
Q. Nothing of the kind in the by-laws and constitution?
A. No; I do not know of anything that I could draw such an inference from.
Q. Is this association in existence now?
A. Yes, it is.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Were you working in the mines in 1876?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What wages were you getting then--average--you being a practical man of intelligence, of course, you know about the average price of miners and laborers in 1876?
A. To be able to answer that question intelligently----
Q. As near as you can remember?
A. I ought to have prepared myself, by looking up the price of coal. I could not remember exactly what would be the price of a car in 1876. If I could remember that, I could find out about what it would be--the amount of money.
Q. What was the difference about in wages between 1875 and 1876, causing this dissatisfaction?
A. There was no difference.
Q. The same wages?
A. The price was the same in 1876 and 1877.
Q. Do you mean the pay for mining?
A. I do not remember of any reduction taking place.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any reduction in March, 1877, of ten per cent.?
A. I believe there was ten per cent. in March.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did that take effect in the mines, or only in the machine shops?
A. There was one reduction that didn't take effect in the mines, but in the shops and among the mechanics.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Not among the miners?
A. There was one reduction the mechanics had that didn't reach the miners.
Q. And are the wages of miners fixed by the price of coal at entirely the same scale?
A. They got so much a car. There is one grand mistake been made in the assessment of the car. It leaves the impression that the men get so much a ton instead of so much a car. When a man gets sixty-four cents a car, it is not sixty-four cents a ton, but sixty-four cents for two tons of clean coal.
Q. That would be thirty-one cents a ton?
A. Yes; for loading and mining and all the expenses in connection with it. The price of a car contained the price of mining coal, loading the coal, and all necessary expenses.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did not your mine wagons average more than two tons of clean coal?
A. I believe they average it so that a car carries about two and a half tons. There is half a ton allowed for breakage and culm, so it makes it about two tons of clean coal.
Q. Is that not a big average of loss?
A. It appears to me that it is, but it appears on the other side that it don't satisfy the corporation.
Q. About what I am speaking about is ordinary mining?
A. In my estimation, half a ton would be sufficient.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How did this price range in 1877, as compared with 1873, at the time of the panic?
A. I could give you an estimate of what a miner would make in 1877 and 1876 as well.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Just state whether the wages were any lower in May, June, or July, of 1877, than they were in the same months of 1876? Make your own estimates to yourself.
A. I do not want to state anything but what I am positive of, and I cannot bring to memory with regard to the dates of this reduction.
Q. Had there been any reductions in 1877?
A. Up to that date I cannot remember whether there was a ten per cent. or not. There may be others that can remember these things.
Q. You cannot state whether there was any reduction in 1877 or not?
A. I am not positive. I am under the impression that there was a reduction; but I could not state positively--in the early part of 1877.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Will you please define the term strike?
A. The only definition I can give you is that it means suspension of work.
Q. You mean if just one man quits work, he is on a strike, or when there is a combination of men all quit at once?
A. Oh, no; a man may suspend work himself, but the term strike means a general suspension of work.
Q. Of all the men--then you call it a strike?
A. Yes; although the proper term is suspension.
Q. You know it is generally termed a strike?
A. So the railroad and everything of that kind call it a strike; but it is not termed a strike unless there is an arrangement or understanding that they all quit. A meeting is called, there is a delegation appointed to inform the officials of the corporations of the demand of the men, and that committee returns back and reports; and if that is accepted--sometimes it is decided by ballot--if they agree to suspend work until their demand is complied with--they go under the term strike.
Q. What is the object of the men, and what means would be resorted to, to prevent other men from working?
A. There is no provision to prevent anybody. I never knew of any proviso to prevent anybody from working.
Q. Then when there is any interference, it is unauthorized by your organization?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. When men go on a strike, and others will undertake to work in their stead, and they are interrupted by violence and threats of violence?
A. No organization could be accountable for that, and I wish to state here that the late strike was not under the auspices of that organization.
Q. That strike at that time was not under their auspices?
A. The strike was not inaugurated by the organization.
Q. Did the organization approve of it?
A. There was a meeting called. There was a mass meeting, and when that meeting--that meeting adjourned to meet at a mass meeting and take a vote of the committee, and in that second mass meeting they decided to suspend work and join hands.
Q. The second mass meeting was at the silk-works?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where was it?
A. Held in the Round woods.
Q. Where was the first one held?
A. "Fellows' Hall."
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did this organization--"Kights of Labor"--did they by any resolution or by-law discountenance any interference with men that wished to work?
A. There is no combination to resort to any violence whatever.
Q. Was there anything condemning anything by the men?
A. There was nothing under the organization. The constitution and by-laws is the one safe basis of any society, and from their constitution and by-laws there is nothing whatever but that it is a law-abiding organization.
Q. Do you know of any resolutions being passed by any of those lodges and by this association, condemning interference with men who wished to work?
A. I do not, neither do I know of any resolution that urged anything of that kind.
Q. Were you present at this meeting out here at the silk-works?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What resolutions were passed there?
A. I do not know but very little about the resolutions. I went there in company--at the time, I held the position of chairman of the county and central committee, and was secretary of the Hyde park executive committee, and we went there in company with others of that executive committee--over to the silk-works meeting, with the understanding that there were delegations there from all over the county.
Q. You are secretary of the executive committee of what?
A. Of the miners.
Q. Of those Knights of Labor?
A. Oh, no, sir; it was a committee appointed in this mass meeting of members and non-members. I went over there to that meeting, with the understanding that there were delegates to be there from all over the county. I do not know that our committee was notified officially of this meeting, only it was spoken all over the street, and I presume there was notice in the local press, that there was to be a meeting held. When I went there, there was a few thousand people there, and after a while the meeting was called to order by some gentleman, a stranger to me, and some gentleman, I forget his name, was elected chairman. He was also a stranger to me, and the meeting was orderly--there was a few disorderly men there, but the average of the meeting was an orderly meeting, with the exception of those few that may have been aggravated by seeing these men they termed blacklegs working in their places in the shops. I was told that the meeting was called by the Lackawanna Coal Company, to receive the report of some committee, but I never heard of any committee reporting. I did not take any part there, more so than going round, and when I would hear some one making remarks there, to try to quash him of all such remarks, until a letter was brought there by somebody and read--a letter purporting to be written, as I understood at the time, by W. W. Scranton, and in that letter, it was read there, that Scranton stated something, that the men should live on mush and milk, or something to that effect. I was so far off I could not hear the letter, and that drove these men around there to a rage.
Q. Did you understand that this letter had been written by Scranton?
A. I never thought that was the letter. That was my impression. The impression it left on me was that it was written by some men to accomplish their object--to inspire the men to violate the laws.
Q. Do you know of any resolutions passed at that meeting? Do you know the purport of those resolutions?
A. I do not know of any resolutions.
Q. When this meeting adjourned, what was the general understanding of what was to be done?
A. The meeting adjourned. There were a few that got up a cry to go and drive all the blacklegs out; and the meeting adjourned, and the men started and went up in the direction of the shops.
Q. What do you mean by the shops?
A. The manufactories, you know.
Q. Different manufactories?
A. Yes; and that is the last I saw of the meeting. I could see these men running. I saw these men running up the hill. I didn't follow them. I took the railroad up.
Q. You did not go up with the crowd to the shops?
A. No; I didn't see anything.
Q. How large a crowd ran in that direction, about?
A. I think, maybe, those that went up there might have been three or four thousand people there in the meeting, more or less. I could not make an estimate. There was a large crowd.
Q. What class of men were those that talked about driving the blacklegs out of the shops and mills? Were they men from these shops, formerly?
A. They were strangers to me. I was not much acquainted with this city.
Q. Did the miners join in with that crowd?
A. It was not a meeting of miners; it was a public meeting. You could not say it was miners or mechanics.
Q. You could not tell whether there was any miners joined that crowd or not?
A. Oh, no.
Q. A mass meeting of all classes of laboring men?
A. A general meeting.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there any liquor there, or anything to inflame--any drinking going on?
A. Oh, no; not to my knowledge.
Q. You didn't see anything of that kind?
A. Didn't see any man there under the influence of drink.
Q. Do I understand you to say you are a member of the executive committee of miners?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go there in your official capacity?
A. No, sir; we just met, and agreed to go there together.
Q. To hear some report?
A. Yes, sir; we went over there as a matter of curiosity, being a member of the executive committee of the Hyde Park miners.
Q. What did you expect this report from?
A. We were informed there would be delegates from different places?
Q. They were to make a report?
A. Yes; to know the general situation of the men all over the different parts of the county.
Q. What were they to report about?
A. With regard to what was the condition of the standing of men in different places. That is what we expected they would report.
Q. The condition in what respect?
A. In regard to what was the condition of the lines that were striking, or any sign of a break, or anything of that kind.
Q. That is, whether they were all standing solid in the strike?
A. Yes; exactly.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did your committee intend to make a report at that meeting, also?
A. No, sir; but we could have made a report in behalf of the Hyde Park men, the men that we represented in committee. If there was any difficulty, we could see that the men at our side were all solid. That is the general phrase of a report, if the men are all solid--all solid.
Q. All stand united?
A. That meant united.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What wages did you get the last month that you worked?
A. I presume that the men----
Q. I just asked you the question, how much did you get the last month that you worked? How much did you make?
A. The last month?
Q. Yes?
A. We generally work there----
Q. I ain't asking you that?
A. I could not tell you how much I made in the last month.
Q. How much could you make a day?
A. In the Diamond vein a man could make about $1 89 a day, figuring down the price of a car, and allowing for expenses, and the price for labor, loading the coal.
* * * * *
J. F. McNally, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Sixth ward, city of Scranton.
Q. What is your business? What was it in July last?
A. Boiler tender for the iron and coal company.
Q. Where is that located--the works of the company?
A. Down this side of Shanty hill a little ways.
Q. Were you at work on the 1st day of August?
A. No, sir.
Q. Go on and state why you were not, and give us the facts connected with the strike here, and all that you are acquainted with?
A. On the 8th day of July, I think it was, there was a reduction--it didn't say how much.
Q. A reduction of wages?
A. A notice put up to that effect.
Q. By that company?
A. Yes, sir. We didn't like it very well, and we appointed a committee to wait on Mr. Platt--he was outside foreman there--and see what the reduction was, and the committee went to Mr. Platt, and he was to go to Mr. Scranton. The answer was, that when we got paid we would find out what the reduction was. Mr. Platt stated that Mr. Scranton told him he didn't know it was any of his business to go there--something to that effect. So we worked along, and on the 20th they struck. I was on the night turn, and I worked Monday night, and Tuesday afternoon they struck.
Q. On the 20th of July?
A. Yes; about twelve o'clock. They stated here it was a puddlers'----
Q. It was either the 17th or the 24th--which was it now? Do you think Tuesday, 24th?
A. I could not say positively which it was. I know it was summer. The latter part of the month, or getting that way.
Q. Go on, then.
A. I was on the night turn, and I just got up about two o'clock, and I came over that afternoon a little early, and had a little work to do, and when I was going out mother said to me, "Where are you going? Going to work?" She said she heard they had struck. There was a meeting that night up on the hill. I left the dinner-pail in the house, and went up to the meeting, to see what was going on there. When I got there, Mr. Scranton came about the same time, and he asked what was the matter, and they told him. He said he could not do anything, and he drove away, and that is all there was about it until the 1st of August there was a meeting called to be held at the silk-works. So we went there to hear what it was. We understood it was a report from the miners and other different trades, in regard to what they were going to do, whether they were going to stay out or resume work, or what. After the meeting was called to order, before any committee had a chance to report, or anything of the kind, this letter was produced, and read there.
Q. That was at the silk-works?
A. Yes.
Q. State how the letter read. What the subject of it was. The subject matter, as near as you can remember.
A. The substance of the letter was, Mr. Scranton said he would have the men working if, I think, it was thirty-five cents a day and living on mush and molasses, or he would bury himself in a culm-dump. That was the statement of the letter.
Q. How was the letter signed?
A. Workingmen.
Q. These workingmen stated in the letter that that was what Mr. Scranton had said?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the letter state when and where Mr. Scranton had made that declaration?
A. No, sir; not to my recollection.
Q. What did the letter advise the meeting to do?
A. It didn't state. That was about the substance of the letter.
Q. Who read the letter?
A. I could not tell you what his name is. I wouldn't know him if I would see him.
Q. Did you come up, then, with the crowd that came up to the shop?
A. No, sir. After the meeting adjourned, part of us came up the railroad towards the L.S. crossing, and I stood there conversing about fifteen or twenty minutes. The crowd had gone towards Lackawanna avenue. After they had dispersed from there, I thought I would walk to town, and I went up, and when I got up to the top of the hill the crowd and I walked through the crowd, and I met the mayor coming down. He seemed to be quite excited. He was going to McKinney's office. I met him a little this side of there. I passed on to Lackawanna avenue, and stood there.
Q. Your recollection of it is the same as that given by Mr. Brown this morning as to what occurred there on Lackawanna avenue?
A. No, sir.
Q. Go on and state, then, how it was?
A. I walked first towards Lackawanna avenue and then I walked back again to Washington avenue and stood down there. The mayor came up, supported by two men, one on each side of him, and the crowd following up. A party says, What is this coming down the avenue? I stood up and I saw it was vigilantes, as they call them, coming down with rifles. They had just about passed about the time the crowd came there. The crowd filed in right behind them. Mr. Boltry stepped back and told them to keep back. With that they turned around again, and with that the first I heard was "crack," "crack," "crack" of the vigilants. They fired right into them.
Q. Was the crowd throwing stones?
A. I had not seen any.
Q. Did you hear any pistol shot from the crowd?
A. No, sir; not there, nor anywhere in that section.
Q. Whereabouts was the crowd when the vigilantes fired?
A. They were right on Washington avenue, from Lackawanna avenue.
Q. Going which direction?
A. They seemed to be facing down Lackawanna avenue.
Q. In this direction?
A. Yes.
Q. When the firing took place?
A. Yes; they were right abreast there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How large a crowd was that?
A. I should judge from five to six hundred.
Q. What wages were you getting at the time of the strike?
A. One dollar and twelve cents.
Q. As boiler tender?
A. Yes; I looked after boilers there.
Q. Was that what your wages were about the time of the reduction or before?
A. After the reduction.
Q. How was it before the reduction?
A. Before the reduction it was one dollar and a half.
Q. When was the first reduction?
A. I think it was in March.
Q. How much was it after the reduction in March?
A. One dollar and twenty-five cents.
Q. Then after the last reduction it was one dollar and twelve cents?
A. One dollar and twelve and a half cents.
Q. What were engineers getting in the works where you were at that time?
A. One dollar and a half they were getting before the last reduction. One dollar and thirty-five cents, then, after the last reduction. There is one of the engineers here, who can state that.
Q. What were the men, generally, getting? What wages in the shops?
A. Laboring men were getting eighty cents a day.
Q. What kind of work were they doing?
A. All kinds of work round there--that is, laborers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean repairing men--truckmen?
A. Truckmen, such as that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Get eighty cents a day after the first reduction?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much were they getting before the last reduction?
A. I think it was either ninety cents or one dollar, or one dollar and five cents.
Q. How much were they getting before the reduction in March?
A. I could not say what they were getting. Puddlers were getting three dollars a ton.
Q. Three dollars a ton before the reduction?
A. Before the reduction.
Q. How much were they getting before the reduction?
A. Two dollars and seventy cents I think it was, and that had to be divided between two.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. They had a helper?
A. At this time two puddlermen were in together.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How much would they puddle per day, on an average?
A. A ton was about all they were allowed to puddle. Twenty-two hundred, about that--twenty-two hundred I think was allowed for a ton.
Q. What then did they make per day, on an average?
A. Between one dollar and thirty-five cents and one dollar and fifty cents.
Q. Was this reduction of wages that was made in July general?
A. Yes; it was a general reduction--stated so.
Q. Among all the men?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did it apply to you?
A. The notice read that it would be a general reduction.
Q. Did the reduction apply to officers of the company--book-keepers and so forth?
A. That is something I could not state.
Q. Is a ton a day all that two men can puddle?
A. Yes--about that.
Q. Don't they puddle more than that some days?
A. They may perhaps--two hundred over that.
Q. Two hundred over? They are paid for all they make over, are they not?
A. That is something I cannot state. They are only allowed a ton.
Q. Did other companies here reduce their wages also?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the same time?
A. Well, somewhere around there. This company was the first that struck here.
Q. In the meetings that you attended among the men who struck, was there anything said about interfering with those parties of men who were willing to work?
A. No, sir; they were committees appointed to go and wait on them, and ask them civilly whether they could work. There was no violence of any kind.
Q. Committees appointed to visit them, and ask them to quit work?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Until they got the wages they want?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they fix upon any definite price per day that you would demand?
A. Yes; we asked them twenty-five per cent.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Twenty-five per cent. advance?
A. Yes; there was a committee appointed between boiler tenders and engineers of the company, to wait on the former and demand it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you on that committee?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Well, now do you know----
A. I was on after. We could not get no one over there after we met altogether. There was a committee appointed to wait on Mr. Scranton, and I was on that committee to ask Mr. Scranton.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What reason did Mr. Scranton give?
A. He said he could not do it. He was not getting price enough for his iron, and could not afford to give it. He said these were just as big a price as any other company. There was one witness stated here to-day, in regard to after the coroner's inquest was held, that they were to take them in carriages to Wilkes-Barre after the arrest. There was no such proposition made.
Q. Were you at the coroner's inquest?
A. Yes, I was there--a witness there. They were to make these arrests and put them in the lockup here, and take them to Wilkes-Barre. They were not to take them by night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How do you know?
A. Because I was there all the time.
Q. Have any conversation with the officers?
A. No, sir; it was somewhere about eight o'clock in the evening, or seven o'clock, when the verdict was given, and all the evidence was taken. Then the arrest was to be made immediately after that. He stated then, that there was an indictment in Wilkes-Barre, one for murder and one for manslaughter. There was not. There was only one indictment fetched against them. It was for manslaughter.
Q. Against whom?
A. Against the vigilants.
Q. Do you know how much the miners made per day during May, June, and July, 1877?
A. The miners stated to me that they could make on an average about one dollar and fifty cents a day.
Q. During May, June, and July?
A. Yes, sir; they were not working on full time. Some days they would make half of that. They were paid by the car, and they would not get the cars.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What was your object in coming up Lackawanna avenue at that time? You say you came up and stood on the corner?
A. I most generally come up every day two or three times.
Q. You had no particular mission to go up there?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Expect to see any fun?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Did you expect there was anything going on?
A. No, sir; never dreamed of anything.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you know there was a crowd of men driving the men out of the works.
A. No, sir; had not seen any.
Q. Did not know anything about that at all?
A. Did not see that at all. The men came out peaceably. I did not see any men around.
Q. Did you see the crowd going up to the works?
A. The place was on the road coming up.
Q. You were at the meeting at the silk-works, and came up?
A. No, sir; I took the railroad.
Q. Did the railroad lead you by the shops?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you about the shops when the men were driving the workmen out--when the crowd was?
A. Yes. I just came there about the time the workmen were coming out. I did not see them driven out.
Q. Did you go inside the shops?
A. No, sir.
Q. You were along there just as the workmen were coming out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the crowd chasing any of them?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. The workmen came out peaceably and quiet? There seemed to be no trouble?
A. There did not seem to be any trouble.
Q. At what shops?
A. Delaware, Lackawanna and Western.
Q. At the lower shops?
A. At the first shops as you go down the hill.
Q. Did you see any men coming out of the lower works immediately in the vicinity of where the stables are?
A. No, sir; I did not. I met them after the crowd had passed.
Q. Passed them?
A. Yes; and I asked them what the difficulty was. They told me the men came there and ordered them out, so they went out. They stood all around the streets there.
Q. Have you any knowledge of some men being clubbed and beaten and injured?
A. No, sir. Did not see any clubbed, injured, or beaten in any way, shape, or manner.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Do you not know that such things did take place--that some were beaten and driven out violently?
A. It was talked so. I never heard a man say he was hit.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the mayor hit?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see the mayor bleeding as if he had been struck?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see that crowd that came out of the shops with clubs in their hands?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Did you see any men----
A. When the mayor got there I passed right on Lackawanna avenue.
Q. Did you see anybody in this crowd that came up Washington avenue with clubs?
A. I saw some boys had sticks--or laths, rather.
Q. What do you mean by boys?
A. Boys from twelve to fourteen.
Q. You did not see any attack made on the mayor at all?
A. No, sir; I did not. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Did you see Father Dunn?
A. I think I did see the mayor struck. I would not be positive though. I think I saw the mayor struck. I would not be positive.
Q. Who struck him? A boy?
A. No, sir. I think it was a man.
Q. What did he strike him with?
A. I could not see what he struck him with. I was quite a distance away. I was up on Washington avenue.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At what point was it you saw the mayor struck?
A. Right below the culvert.
Q. The causeway under the railroad?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What did the crowd say when they came up Washington avenue? Did you hear any expressions from the crowd what they were going to do?
A. When I passed by I heard them ask who it was that was going towards McKinney's office. They said it was the mayor. Those were the only words I heard spoken.
Q. You say you came up Washington avenue, and sat down?
A. I sat down on the corner of Hunt's store, on Washington avenue.
Q. When the crowd came up--after the vigilants came up the street--did the crowd say what they were going to do?
A. No, sir; they walked right along up the streets.
Q. What did those boys say?
A. The boys were ahead of the men. I did not pay much attention to what was going on. I saw the crowd pass up.
Q. Was there much noise?
A. No, sir.
Q. Walking quietly, were they?
A. Yes; they were walking at a fair gait.
Q. Now, was there not some kind of a row when the mayor was struck; were they walking quietly then?
A. They were standing--the majority of the crowd were standing down around the shops at that time.
Q. Where did this man come from that struck the mayor--that you think struck the mayor?
A. I could not say where he came from.
Q. Did he not come out of the crowd?
A. That is something I could not say, either.
Q. You must, certainly, if you got an impression on your mind that you saw him struck--you must certainly know where the man came from--you say it was a man?
A. I think the first I saw of the man, was right in front of the mayor. Where he came from, I could not say anything of the kind.
Q. Was the crowd about the mayor trying to protect him?
A. Yes; some of them were.
Q. You did not see anything of this crowd that came out with clubs--out of the shops?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. You say you heard somebody asking who it was?
A. Yes, sir; that passed through the crowd.
Q. Where did the reply, "the mayor," come from?
A. From the crowd. About the center of the crowd.
Q. Did you not hear some expression from these men that came out of the shops?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Such as, "go for him," or "kill him," or something of that kind. Did you hear any expression of that kind in the crowd?
A. No, sir; I did not stand there at all. I passed right through.
Q. After the crowd got to Lackawanna avenue, where did you go?
A. I stood right there.
Q. On the corner?
A. Yes; about a couple of yards back. I stood about four or five feet away from where one of the men was struck.
Q. Where were the vigilant placed?
A. The last one stood about the corner of Mr. Hunt's store.
Q. Were they drawn up in line across the street?
A. No, sir; they were in twos, going down the street.
Q. Not this way?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they halt or march off down the street?
A. They halted right there.
Q. And faced about and faced the crowd?
A. They turned towards--facing the crowd; yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When the firing took place, were they facing?
A. Facing towards the crowd.
Q. Facing down this way?
A. No, sir; facing that way.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were they drawn across the street in a line, or how were they placed?
A. As near as I can recollect it, they turned, and faced around. Suppose they were going down this way, [illustrating,] and they faced that way. [Illustrating.]
Q. Were they faced in a straight line across this avenue?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. Were they up and down the street--I mean, for instance, facing that side--lengthwise?
A. Yes; that is about the position they stood.
Q. Lengthwise, down this street?
A. Yes; and then they turned right around, as near as I can recollect it. When I saw them facing, each man stood right behind the other, and they turned right around and faced.
Q. In what direction?
A. Towards Washington avenue, where the crowd was coming up.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Faced towards you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They fired pretty close to you?
A. Yes, sir. I did not know what was going on, for about a minute, until I heard one buzz pass my ear, and I thought it was time for me to get out. I ran back into Mr. Hunt's building after the fire was over, and they began to form a line across Washington--right on Washington avenue--began to form in line; then I came out.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The position you describe is, that they formed across Washington avenue, facing towards the shop?
A. After the firing was done, they formed to go towards the company's store.
Q. When the firing was done, where were they formed?
A. Right about the center of the street, on the street car track, coming down this way.
Q. Did not reach Washington avenue?
A. Yes; it was past it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You say there was a man shot within four or five feet of you. What was he doing?
A. I could not say what he was doing. I saw him fall.
Q. You did not see what he was doing, before the shot was fired?
A. No, sir; I turned round just as he was falling, and one buzzed alongside of me, and I got.
Q. Was there any demonstration made by the crowd at all, before this firing?
A. No, sir; not that I heard.
Q. Did not see any stones thrown?
A. No, sir; the majority of the crowd was up past me, when the shots began to fire. There was one man came up, and he was talking with me, and he says, "What is this coming down the street?" and I looked around, and saw what was called the vigilants.
Q. Were you in position to see the stones when they were thrown?
A. Yes; I think I would, if there were any thrown. I stood right on a level with Lackawanna avenue.
Q. Had the crowd got across Lackawanna avenue?
A. There were some; I could not say exactly whether they crossed to the other side of the street or not.
Q. How many men were killed there?
A. Three.
Q. Whereabouts were they standing when they were killed?
A. One of them stood right at Hunt's corner, where I was standing, and as to where the others were, I could not say where they were, but after the firing was over one of them lay right in front of Monie & Pugh's bakery, and the other one lay right across from Hunt's.
Q. On this side of the street?
A. No, sir; on the other side. One of them lay on the street and one lay on the sidewalk on Washington avenue.
Q. Were they both on the right hand side of the street going up from here to Lackawanna avenue?
A. One of them was, and the other one was just outside of the side-walk.
Q. On the left hand side as you go up?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. If the firing was done in the other direction how could this man be shot upon that? You say they were facing down Washington avenue or in that direction--facing to the right up Lackawanna avenue?
A. Yes, sir; when the shots began to fire.
Q. You do not know whether this other man on the left or rear was shot at the same time or not?
A. He was shot with that volley.
Q. Did you hear any command given to fire?
A. Yes; as near as I can recollect, there was some one gave a command to fire, but who it was, I could not say.
Q. Give us the exact words if you can?
A. They said, "fire."
Q. They were all facing in the one direction when that command was given?
A. The men that were back, I could not say which way they were facing. The front were facing towards Washington avenue.
Q. And in one line?
A. Yes; all but Mr. Bolser. He was behind the crowd. I do not know whether he got as far as the crowd when the shots were fired. He stood somewhere about two or three yards back of the crowd.
Q. Was the volley fired by the whole command?
A. There were three or four shots fired, then there was a couple of seconds between, and then there was, "crack, crack, crack," right along.
Q. Was there any firing after that?
A. No, sir; not that I know of.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You said, awhile ago, that you were a member of that committee that waited upon Mr. Scranton?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you chairman of the committee?
A. No, sir; I was secretary of that committee.
Q. How did Mr. Scranton treat you. Gentlemanly?
A. Yes; he did.
Q. Treated you gentlemanly and kindly?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just merely stated that he could not advance that twenty-five per cent.
A. Said he could not afford to advance a cent the way they were getting paid for what they sold.
* * * * *
F. L. Hitchcock, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence and business?
A. Residence Scranton; practicing law.
Q. Please give us a statement of the difficulty as it occurred in the city--as it came under your observation--in July last and the 1st day of August?
A. You want the transaction of the 1st of August?
Q. We would like to have the origin of it--as much as you can give us--the origin and causes that produced it?
A. You have had that all in detail in regard to the causes. I have nothing in addition to that. The only thing I can give you additional would be what I know of the organization of this posse and its work. While this strike was in progress and trouble became apprehended, the mayor called together an advisory committee, of which I was a member. This committee were devising ways and means for protection, and it was deemed best to organize this posse. I suggested, among other things--and we immediately proceeded to organize--this force comprising a good many of the old soldiers of the town, and got together a force of some one hundred and twenty or one hundred and thirty men, I think. We gathered together what arms we could find, and we commenced to drill. In the meantime we were sworn in as special policemen by the mayor, and we held ourselves in readiness constantly to protect the city and preserve the peace. Our head-quarters were established at the iron company's store, and for several evenings prior to the 1st of August we had been there--most of us--during the evening until twelve o'clock, and a large force all night, apprehending trouble. On the evening before the 1st of August we had resolved not to stay up there any longer, considering it unnecessary. I was sitting in my office, about ten o'clock, when the superintendent came down and told me he apprehended further trouble that night, and he wished us to get our posse together and go there that night. I immediately went up to Doud's store, where Captain Ripple said he would be, to communicate with him.
Q. Where is Doud's store?
A. Just above the corner of Washington avenue.
Q. State where the iron-works store is.
A. Still further up--at the corner--clear up. The iron company's store is at the corner of Jefferson avenue and Lackawanna. On my way up there, crossing Washington avenue, I noticed a number of persons looking down the avenue, and I stopped to see what they were looking at, and then for the first time saw this crowd approaching. I knew nothing of the meeting at the silk-works, and I was very apprehensive at the appearance of things. I went to the mayor's office and asked him if he could explain the meaning of that vast crowd coming towards the city. He said he did not know. He thought a moment, and said it was the meeting at the silk-works breaking up, and I said it does not look like breaking up; it is coming to town. "Very well," he says, "you get the posse together at the head-quarters, and await my orders." I immediately gathered together as many of the men as I could, and there we remained until we saw them driving the men out of the shops, clubbing and stoning people. They drove the men out of the furnaces, and they came out on to the track, frightened like a flock of sheep, fleeing for their lives. Mr. Scranton came up and said "What will we do?" I suggested we go down and protect them; we had a right to protect people in their work. "Very well," he said, "I would do that;" and he immediately communicated to Superintendent McKinney, and he said, the men had gone home, and were afraid to work; there was no use. I said our duty was to wait until we were called upon by the mayor. Very soon afterwards we received a summons that there was trouble below. We immediately formed in line and marched down the avenue two and two. We had, I suppose--we counted off before we started--thirty-eight men; but our force received some additions, so we must have had in the neighborhood of fifty.
Q. When you got to Washington avenue?
A. When we got to Lackawanna avenue, coming down. I was unable to find any one of the officers of the posse, when I notified the men, and acting First Sergeant Bartholomew was in command. He came to me and said I must act as second lieutenant. I was acting then as second lieutenant near the rear of the column. As we approached Washington avenue, we noticed there was a large crowd there, whooping and yelling. There was some stones thrown as we approached, and quite a number of those missiles came in behind us very thick. The crowd parted and let us through. We came down on the street car track. As we passed the avenue--the rear of the line passed the avenue--these missiles became thicker, and some pistol shots were fired, and a number of our guns, I noticed, were leveled. I turned around, and two or three of the men had their guns down to shoot. I yelled to them not to shoot, and they raised their guns again. This attack became much more furious, and we appeared to be in danger of being swallowed up, destroyed, and the whole line fired. I supposed three or four shots fired first, and then the whole line fired. A number of the guns--two of the guns, I think--were seized by the rioters and attempted to be wrested from the men before any firing took place--tried to be taken from the men. Several of the men were hit--several pistol shots were fired. This was all done before our men fired a gun. Then, I suppose, there were about fifty or sixty shots fired. Immediately the whole field was clear, and everything was stopped. We marched back to head-quarters, and after we marched back there, our force was gathered in until we had about two hundred men on duty--two hundred men altogether. We formed a line across the avenue, picketed the streets at the head-quarters, and remained in that position all day and all night. Three men were killed by the volleys. Two of the men fell near that corner on the right side, and one on the left.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In the first place, where did the stones appear to come from and the pistol shots, before your men fired?
A. Came from the crowd. Came from both sides.
Q. From Washington street?
A. Yes, sir; and some from the other side also.
Q. Both sides of Lackawanna?
A. They were at the junction of Washington avenue and Lackawanna. These men came up Washington avenue, and they divided and let us through, so that there was a large force back of us on Washington avenue. As we came down we went right through them, and they attacked us on both sides.
Q. What position were the men in when the firing took place?
A. They were faced this way, in column of twos--facing this way, and they simply faced about and fired both ways in the crowd.
Q. Faced outwards, both ranks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What position did you take next?
A. After the fire?
Q. Yes?
A. After the firing--after a few moments--we marched back to head-quarters, and formed a line right across Lackawanna avenue, at the company's store.
Q. Had you, at any time, formed across Lackawanna avenue during the time you were at Washington avenue?
A. No; we just remained along the line of the street car track.
Q. Parallel with Lackawanna?
A. Yes, sir. We were on our way down to the mayor's office, and the attack stopped us, and compelled us to fire.
Q. About how many pistol shots did you hear before your men fired?
A. There was a great deal of noise and disturbance, and I could not tell how--exactly how many. There was one or two reports heard. How many I could not tell. There was a great deal of stones thrown, and a very excited time.
Q. Was the mob very demonstrative?
A. Yes; fearfully so--most terrible sight I ever saw. They seemed to be perfectly infuriated. I never saw men more like devils in my life.
Q. Hear any expressions from any of them?
A. Oh, yes; all kinds of expressions. "Kill the sons of bitches," "Take their guns," and all that kind of thing.
Q. Did you see the mayor in the vicinity of the firing?
A. No, sir; I did not see the mayor until after the firing was over. Just as the firing ceased the mayor came to us on the pavement.
Q. The man that was killed on the south side of Lackawanna avenue, was he near the corner?
A. I think there was one right near the corner.
Q. Did you see him shot?
A. I recollect seeing the two men fall--yes, I saw them as they fell, drop on to the ground.
Q. Was he making any demonstration towards the posse?
A. I do not know as to any individual, nor I could not pick out any individual. A large man there swung a club and was very demonstrative. Whether he was shot or not, I do not know. The man I did not know at all personally.
Q. On what day was this posse organized?
A. That I am not able to give you--the exact date from memory. We have got a record.
Q. Was it before or after the Pittsburgh riots?
A. I am unable to say. I judge it was--perhaps it was a little after that--what was the date of that?
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. It commenced the 19th, but the destruction of property was on the 22d?
A. This was after that, I think. I think it was one of the reasons why we were supposed to take care of ourselves if we could. I think that was one of the reasons that actuated the advisory board. The idea was that we were isolated from all, and that we either had to take care of ourselves or take the chances of being stamped out.
Q. And this vigilance committee was organized for the purpose of protecting property?
A. Nothing else, sir. Preserving peace and protecting property, and for no special property. Protecting the public peace. I might say the reason why we had our head-quarters at the company's store, was simply because we were unable to get any other place. We were unable to get the Second National Bank and other halls--the board of directors refused us admission. Said that would bring the fury of the mob down upon them. Mr. Scranton came forward and said we could occupy their store. We offered to pay for these other places. We were some three days trying to get a place.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Could you see the men being driven out of the shops or any of the works from this store?
A. Yes. We could see them. I saw them before I got to the store. I saw them driving them out of the railroad shop and the furnaces before I went into the store.
Q. The mob following the men?
A. I saw men following them. Stones thrown at them. Following them with clubs, and the men fleeing for their lives. I saw them at all these places.
Q. The mob following these men. What was it composed of--boys?
A. I suppose boys sixteen to eighteen years old. Some of them were men. I noticed quite a number of those were young fellows--eighteen, twenty, to twenty-five years old.
Q. Was information made against you, as one of the posse, for murder?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For manslaughter?
A. I think the indictment was murder.
Q. Were you arrested?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. By whom?
A. We went down and gave ourselves up. I was not one of those arrested by the constable.
Q. Not formally?
A. I went down before the court, and entered bail before the court--the whole of our posse--some fifty altogether.
Q. How many of your posse were tried?
A. The whole number, I think. Of those, there were some three or four that were proven not to have been present; that were arraigned as part of our posse.
Q. At the preliminary hearing were dismissed?
A. Yes, sir. Dismissed by the court.
Q. Had you a preliminary hearing before the court?
A. We gave bail, and on the trial a number of those persons were proven not to have been present. They were all tried. The judge directed a verdict of acquittal before it went to the jury.
Q. Then you had no preliminary hearing at all?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many were indicted for murder?
A. Some fifty.
Q. Some for murder, and some for manslaughter?
A. I think they were all on the same indictment of murder--all in one indictment, sir.
Q. And all tried?
A. Yes; all tried. There were three cases, but we were all on them. There were three different indictments. One case was made a test case for them all, and the other two the verdict was taken without any evidence at all, following the first one.
Q. One case was made a test case?
A. There were indictments in each of the three cases of Mr. Langon, Lane, and Dunledin. I think the case that was tried was for the murder of Langon. That was the one that was actually contested.
Q. The case that was contested--was that submitted to a jury?
A. Oh, yes; with the exception of those parties who were proved not present.
* * * * *
Carlos W. McKinney, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside?
A. The corner of Adams avenue and Spruce street, Ninth ward.
Q. What is your business?
A. Superintendent blast furnace, Lackawanna Iron Company.
Q. On the 1st day of August, state where you were?
A. The morning of the first day of August, I went to the furnaces as usual. The furnaces had been idle for sometime before; that they had banked them up, and I got the men to go out and commence operations again. After working two or three days, on the 1st day of August there was a party assembled at the silk-works, while my men were at work at the furnaces. I was notified that there was a party down there, and there would probably be trouble. I went up about nine o'clock in the morning, at the top of the iron company's store, took a field glass and saw a large crowd at the silk-works. I saw the party start up Washington avenue from the silk-works, and I then went down near the steel-works, on an embankment, so that I could have a good view. I didn't know but that they were just going to make a parade through the streets, but when they arrived up as far as the iron company's machine shops--boiler shops--a large party of them left the main line, and passed off into the machine shops and drove the machine shop hands out. I saw them stoning them, and throwing clubs at them, from where I stood. After that a large number of them came up towards the blast furnaces. A small track led in down to the machine shops. I then went down to the blast furnaces, and made arrangements to cast. I told the men it looked like trouble, and I thought we better get out what iron there was in the furnace, and in case the men came upon us we would throw the blast out. I looked around, and saw the crowd coming up, right at the foot of the furnace, probably a thousand of them; we were just then about done casting. I saw the men could not stop long enough to stop the furnace, and told them to run, and I threw the blast off myself. I passed then, off to the engine-house, told the engineer to stop the engine and take the blast off, which he did. By this time the crowd had followed me, and I went up to the iron company's store, and met the general manager there, Mr. Scranton, and told him what had occurred at the furnace, and asked him what should be done. He said, we would wait and see. At that time nearly all the superintendents and foremen had come to the office, and reported that they had been stopped, and their men had been driven off. Then we had collected citizens and people working for the iron company, some forty-four men, that were up in the store. Mr. Scranton, after waiting awhile, said we had better fall in and go down and offer our services to the mayor, as we had already been appointed special policemen for the protection of iron property, and the property in general. And he headed the line--got them in column of two, and made the remark that we might as well die as any other time, and told them to follow. We marched out of the company's store, came down Lackawanna avenue to the corner of Washington here, and we met the crowd which had left the blast furnace, and passed to the shops of the D., L. and W. Quite a number were already on Lackawanna avenue, probably half a block up. We passed them, and they said nothing particular until we got past Washington avenue. I was on the rear end of the line with Bartry, and Mr. Scranton was at the head. After passing Washington avenue, the main body of the mob that came from below, came around rushing into Lackawanna avenue, and there was one man, I don't know who he was--they said his name was Langon--who came up to the line on the side where I was, and he had a stick about that long, [indicating,] and as I came by he shook his fist. I made no reply or anything. Then he turned to the crowd and says, "Fall in, boys, fall in, boys." They were rushing up. Then somebody hollered out, Take the guns away from them, they have blank cartridges. They were probably twenty-five feet from us, and Bartry and myself motioned them to stay back. At that time somebody fired a gun down the line, and when the first gun was fired a general fire commenced. After the crowd dispersed, we formed up in column of twos again, faced the other way, and marched back to the store.
Q. How many persons were killed?
A. There were three killed.
Q. How many wounded?
A. I don't know, sir; we have never been able to find out.
Q. Were any of the posse wounded?
A. Yes; I was wounded. A pistol ball in my knee, shot by a man who was on the corner, next to Jack Slagle.
Q. On the left hand side going up Lackawanna?
A. At the corner of Lackawanna and Washington. The first time these men shot, he hit my gun, and knocked a piece of the wood off. I have the gun yet. The next time he took me about four or five feet from the corner. I felt the ball strike by my knee. I felt down, and saw I was shot; felt the blood running down my leg, and right after that there was firing. Just at that time there was a man, probably about a head taller than the other man, who shot two men at the rear end of the column. I heard those balls come by, and I saw both shots.
Q. Were those shots fired before there was any firing?
A. Yes; they were firing before any shots were fired.
Q. Were you struck before any firing?
A. No, sir; I was struck after the general engagement commenced.
Q. Any stones thrown at the posse by the crowd?
A. Yes; there were stones thrown. I dodged one stone that struck a man by the name of John Stanton in the back.
Q. Was that before any firing?
A. That was before any firing.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. I understood you to say that the first pistol shot fired at you was before your posse fired?
A. I was not shot until after.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I understood you there was a shot that hit your gun?
A. My gun and myself was shot after the firing.
Q. You say that the two shots fired by the tall man was before any firing done by the posse?
A. Before any firing in the line.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. You don't know who that was that fired, do you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Ever know what became of him?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were you one of the men that were indicted for murder?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you arrested?
A. I was arrested.
Q. By the constable?
A. No, sir. I went to Wilkes-Barre, and gave myself up with the posse.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you receive any information that this crowd were about to drive your men out of these furnaces?
A. My men told me at the blast furnace that some men had told them they had better get out. My foreman, as well as the men who were at work there, told me. That is the reason I went up on to the store so as to get a good view of the crowd, and be in readiness.
Q. Were you up in the store when you saw the crowd coming up?
A. I was on top of the store.
Q. Could you see any demonstrations they made in the furnace and work-shops below?
A. After we commenced moving, I left that position, and passed down to the steel-mill, which is on a high embankment, I did not see what the crowd were going to do for certain. I supposed they were going to just have a parade. When I saw them make this demonstration at the lower shops, then I immediately went to the furnaces, and got out whatever iron there was in the furnaces, because I supposed that would be the next point of attack.
Q. You were close enough to those shops below the steel-works to see distinctly that the men were being driven out?
A. Yes. Saw them throwing stones at them. Saw the men who fired the boiler-house, and they threw stones at them at the same time. Saw two or three men running up the embankment on the opposite side they were stoning them.
Q. Did you see any of them hurt?
A. I could not tell whether the stones hit them or not.
Q. Do you know anything else that would be of interest to our committee, any information that you have not already stated?
A. These are just about the facts, so far as the riot is concerned.
At this point the committee adjourned to meet at four o'clock, this afternoon.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
SCRANTON, March 30, 1878.
The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at four, P.M. All members present except Mr. Dewees.
* * * * *
John Mucklow, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Down at Greenwood.
Q. How far from here?
A. They call it three miles.
Q. What is your business?
A. Working in the mines.
Q. Were you at home on the 1st day of August last.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had the miners been at work up to that time?
A. I believe not, sir.
Q. What time did they quit work?
A. I could not tell exactly. They had not worked for a week or so--nearly a couple of weeks, for all I know.
Q. Were they on a strike?
A. Our men did not strike at all. Our men were all working, and stopped for want of cars.
Q. Stopped because there were no cars to carry the coal away?
A. Yes. Our men did not strike at all. Did not hear a word about striking among our men.
Q. Do you know where Isaac B. Felts lives?
A. I guess he lives over in Taylorville.
Q. Do you know where his store is?
A. Yes, sir; his store is right opposite my house.
Q. Opposite your house?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about its being broken into on the morning of the 1st of August--some time after midnight, or before daylight?
A. Broken open between twelve and one o'clock that night--that morning.
Q. Did you hear the disturbance?
A. Yes, sir; saw it, too.
Q. Were you up?
A. I was up laying on my porch.
Q. How many men were there that broke into the store?
A. I could not tell. There might have been some twenty; may be thirty, more or less. I could not say. It was moonlight.
Q. How did they get in. How did they break in. Give us a description?
A. I heard the first noise in the store. There was a crowd outside, and the first noise I heard in the store, and then they opened the front door to the store-room, and they went in there. There were some in the store before that, because they opened the door.
Q. Did they break in the door or unlock it?
A. The door was broke in--shoved in.
Q. Did you hear them when they first came there?
A. Yes; I was lying on the porch.
Q. What class of men were they?
A. I could not tell anything about that.
Q. Where did they come from?
A. I could not tell. They came up the road. That is, going down towards Pittston. They came up that way.
Q. Towards Scranton?
A. Came from towards Scranton. Towards Taylorville, the opposite side.
Q. What did they say?
A. Did not hear anything said, sir.
Q. Were they noisy?
A. No noise at all.
Q. Done quietly, was it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What damage did they do?
A. I could not state. I know they took goods away. I saw them carrying goods away. Could not tell how much or how little.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What kind of goods?
A. I saw them carry boxes away, blue boxes, and other things.
Q. Was it store goods, groceries, or was it iron?
A. Carried every sort away. I guess we found everything of every kind lying along through the woods and places afterwards.
Q. In what direction?
A. Right down towards the Lackawanna.
Q. In this direction, [indicating?]
A. No; more towards north.
Q. Would it be on the road toward the silk-works?
A. No, sir; it was down kind of katty-cornered from that; north-west.
Q. Did you go over to the store to see who it was?
A. No, sir; I did not. I knew better than that. Did not want to get my head broke.
Q. Did you consider it dangerous to have gone there?
A. I would consider it, and I had a pair of revolvers with me, too.
Q. Pair of revolvers?
A. I had a pair.
Q. And you would not want to risk it?
A. No; I would not want to risk it at all.
Q. Did you know any of the men?
A. No, sir; I did not know a man--had no knowledge of any man that was there.
Q. No knowledge?
A. No knowledge.
Q. Do you know whether those men came from the silk-works?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Was there a meeting at the silk-works that same morning?
A. I heard there was afterwards, but I did not hear nothing of that until it was over. The first I heard of that was Langon and Dunledin was shot at Scranton. We heard out there, there was four men shot. That was all I know about it. The news was carried up there in the afternoon.
Q. Did you know those two men, Langon and Dunledin?
A. I knew Dunledin when he was a boy, and I knew Langon because he worked in our works.
Q. Last summer?
A. Yes. He worked there when he was killed.
Q. What kind of a man was this Langon?
A. I never saw anything wrong about him. He was assessor of our township.
Q. Assessor of the township?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had he been instrumental in instigating the strike?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. How was the other man--what kind of a character or reputation had he?
A. I do not know anything about him from the time he was a young boy.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. How old a man was he?
A. Langon? I could not state.
Q. The other one.
A. He might have been, may be twenty--from twenty to twenty-five.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did Langon say anything to you about going to the silk-works?
A. Not a word.
Q. Did you know anything about the meeting before.
A. Not a word. Did not know until about three o'clock, in the afternoon.
Q. Had there been any talk among the men where you work about striking?
A. Not that I ever heard. Our men were all at work.
Q. What company were you working for?
A. Messrs. Correy & Co.
Q. Had your wages been reduced any during the spring?
A. Not from the fifteen cent drop, or whatever time the drop was.
Q. When was that?
A. I could not tell exactly what month it was in.
Q. What year?
A. I guess it must have been 1856 or 1857.
Q. 1876, you mean?
A. 1876 or 1877.
Q. How much were you making per day at the time you had to quit work?
A. We had to work pretty hard long hours if we could make one dollar and ninety cents a day as a miner.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. One dollar and ninety cents?
A. That was all we made that month.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you paid by the ton?
A. We were paid by the car.
Q. How much were you paid by the car?
A. Sixty-six cents. I think our vein is small--three foot thick and about three or four inches----
Q. How many cars can you put out to-day?
A. Six are our day's work. We had too much work. We could not do it.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. For how many men?
A. Two.
Q. You don't know of any reduction in the price for mining than that of last year?
A. Not from the fifteen cent drop.
Q. What was the grievance of the miners then?
A. Didn't seem to be any grievance at our place at all. I didn't hear them say anything, only they couldn't get cars enough to load the coal.
Q. Was there any demand for coal?
A. The cars didn't come for taking away.
Q. It was not so much then the price that was paid per ton as it was as to the number of cars furnished?
A. They had the same price, but they could not get as much as they could do.
Q. It was the want of work?
A. It was the want of work.
Q. Not the amount paid?
A. The amount of work, that was what it was for.
Q. What was the cause of this want of cars?
A. I could not tell that. It seems like this: we did not get the cars because the engineers and firemen stopped for wages. That was what I understood it was for.
Q. What?
A. The firemen and the engineers struck. That was the reason we could not get cars.
Q. For how long did this last, that you didn't have cars enough?
A. I could not say how long it was we could not get cars enough; and we don't get enough yet.
Q. Was there any plan before that time that the engineers should refuse to work and run the cars?
A. I did not hear anything before that.
Q. Was these grievances complained of?
A. No, sir; but there was not enough cars then.
Q. Have there been cars enough since?
A. In our place I only make six days a month now.
Q. What is the cause of the want of cars now?
A. Can't tell anything about it.
Q. Is it the want of demand for coal?
A. They say so. I don't know what it was.
Q. Was there a general understanding of the miners throughout this region, before the strike took place, that there would be a strike?
A. I never heard anything about it.
Q. Was there a strike among the other miners for higher pay?
A. Not as I know of.
Q. How much damage was done to Mr. Felt's store?
A. I could not say.
Q. You don't know the value of the goods they took?
A. No, sir.
* * * * *
John Jones, sworn.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Greenwood.
Q. What is your business?
A. Stationary engineer.
Q. Were you at home in July last, or August the 1st?
A. I was at home on the day of August 1st.
Q. How far from Mr. Felt's store do you live?
A. About fifty feet, or seventy-five feet. Just opposite the store--nearly opposite.
Q. Did you hear anybody breaking into the store during the night, and if so, at what time?
A. I was not home that night. I was working.
Q. Where were you working?
A. At the Greenwood slope.
Q. Running an engine?
A. Running an engine.
Q. At what time did you come off?
A. Seven o'clock in the morning.
Q. You heard nothing of what took place at the store during the night?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who the parties were that were at the store?
A. No, sir; I do not.
Q. Do you know from where they came?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or what class of men they were?
A. No, sir.
Q. When did you learn of the store being broken open?
A. Learned of it when I came home in the morning--when I reached home.
Q. Who told you?
A. My wife.
Q. Did she hear any of the parties?
A. She did not say she heard any of the parties that were at the store. She heard from the neighbors. The neighbors told her of it.
Q. Did you know anything about the meeting at the silk-works?
A. Not until the day they had the meeting.
Q. What time did you learn of that?
A. I learned of it after the shooting.
Q. Where were you when you heard of it?
A. Sitting on the store porch.
Q. At Greenwood?
A. At my home; yes, sir.
Q. For what company were you working at the time?
A. The Pennsylvania Anthracite Coal Company.
Q. What wages were you getting, running the engine?
A. One dollar and eighty-five cents a day.
Q. Had there been any reduction made?
A. Not for six months previous to that, there had not been from that time on. There had not been, not very lately.
Q. When was the last reduction?
A. I think it was in December.
Q. Of 1876?
A. Of 1876.
Q. How much was that reduction?
A. Fifteen cents.
Q. There had been none since?
A. None since that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Fifteen cents a day?
A. Fifteen cents on a dollar--fifteen per cent.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you working for the same company that John Mucklow was?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any strike of the men that were working for that company?
A. No, sir; not that I know of. Would not call it a strike, anyhow.
Q. What do you call a strike?
A. I don't know what to call it. When men turn out for wages, for their rights, that is what they term a strike--stick out for their rights.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Tell what they propose to do when they go out for their rights--propose to simply quit?
A. Simply quit, and stand out until they get their rights.
Q. And prevent others from working, at the same time?
A. I don't know. I should not prevent any man, if I was striking. I should not prevent any man from work.
Q. Is not that generally done?
A. It seems so.
Q. Is not that the rule?
A. I don't know whether that is the rule or not. I could not say.
Q. What has been the custom, generally, when they went out on a strike? Would they permit anybody to work?
A. It has been a custom not to let them work.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were you one of the strikers?
A. No, sir; I was not.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You had charge of an engine?
A. Pumping engine and hoist.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you interfered with in your pumping?
A. No, sir.
Q. Not asked to quit pumping?
A. Not asked to quit pumping.
Q. Do you know of any other places where they were requested to quit pumping?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you quit?
A. No, sir.
Q. Tended your engine?
A. Worked right along.
Q. Is there anything else you wish to state to this committee?
A. No, sir; nothing at all.
Q. We want to give a full hearing to all sides?
A. I am one of those kind of men that I don't go around much, and I don't know much; therefore, I can't tell you much of anything.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You are taking care of No. 1?
A. I am taking care of No. 1.
* * * * *
W. W. Scranton, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside and your business, if you please?
A. I live here in Scranton. General manager of the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company.
Q. I wish you would give us a statement of what took place prior to the 1st of August, in the way of organization for protection, and what you learned about the strike, and causes that induced it, &c., in brief?
A. It was Tuesday, July 24, I think, that our iron company men struck. The strike started in the old mill. A few men run out and shouted, "We have struck!" and blew the big whistle, and as the men came out to hear what was the matter, they said, "We have struck--all turn out!" and they all turned out. That was about noon time--between twelve and one o'clock. Those that had gone home, and who knew nothing about it, came back, and were told that the men had struck, and that they must not go back. Whereupon the leaders of them marched the men in a body down to our new mill, where we had some puddlers at work, and got them out there, and from there down to the machine shop. I heard of it then, and drove down and asked them what was the matter. I reproached them for striking without saying anything to me or making any complaint. Inquired what reasons they had, &c., and they said they struck because they were not getting pay enough; and I asked them what they wanted, and they said they wanted thirty-five per cent. advance. Of course I pooh-poohed it; it was ridiculous--such an advance as that in such times as these. Told them that was out of the question. Of course, we could not afford it. I would be glad to pay them better wages if we could; there was nothing to warrant it. They separated, and I went back. Our shop hands still stayed in--the machine shop men, and foundry men, and our furnace men. Of course we did not want to have our furnace go out, if possible, and I went out and talked to these men in the afternoon and evening both. They said that they were perfectly willing to work--were satisfied with their pay, but that they were afraid, that there had been so many threats made that they had not dare stay. They would stay that night, but they must go out the next morning, because their lives were not safe. They said people had been to their wives and children, and they had been told that if their fathers, and brothers, &c., would not stop they would be killed. The long and short of the matter is, our furnace men were afraid. They said they were willing to work, and were satisfied to work, but they did not dare. Of course, judging from the temper of the times, I thought there might possibly be trouble, and I at once proceeded to organize a body of men to protect our property. I called in all our foremen, and a number of men I had confidence in--about thirty--armed them with rifles, kept them in the store that night, ready for anything that might happen. There was a good deal of talk about fire, &c. The next morning the furnace men went out. They said they could not stay. I went down and talked to them. They said they were willing to stay, but were afraid. Our teamsters--I did not think anybody would touch them--they were satisfied--and word came up while I was at breakfast that they had been scared away, and even our store teamster was notified that he would be shot it he went out. I went down, and got him out, and got some others out. That day the police sent us word, notifying us that without doubt our store was to be sacked that night, and that they knew of two wagons or one wagon which had been hired to carry off anything that might be taken out. Of course I listened to it, and got ready for it. That same day--I think it was that day or the next--the mayor sent word that the general of the division here was afraid of his own men with guns, and wanted me to take them and put them in our vaults. We took in about all the guns there were around there--probably five hundred or six hundred, and had them stored in our vaults, because these officers were afraid to trust their people. There was a sort of general panic. The next day I got our teamsters out. Our farm hands had been frightened away, but I talked with them, and reasoned with them, and finally went along with them myself. We took a few rifles along, and cheered them up, and they went to work, and worked on. About Saturday word came round from all quarters that our iron company men, with the exception, perhaps, of a few--that there was no dissatisfaction--the feeling of fear was passing away; they were willing to come back. They said they wanted to be sure of protection--that was the first thing--they must be sure of protection, and they had been threatened, and all that kind of thing. I told them we would protect them from all that danger, so far as I could. I told them that we would protect them--that the government was bound to protect them, and if they wanted to work they could work, and the government must protect them, and we would protect them--do what we could. They asked me to put some such notice as that in the paper. I told them I would do so. Previous to that, on Saturday night, it looked as if the Pennsylvania coal companies might go to work. The head-house, at No. 5, was burned. Of course that blocked all the transportation on that side. The head-house was repaired, and on Monday I was satisfied our men were willing to go to work--only a few that wanted to stay out. I put a notice in the evening paper--the Star I think it was, and I stated that anybody that was willing to go to work for us, we would protect--the government was bound to protect them, and they should be protected if the whole power of the United States came there; otherwise law would amount to nothing, and I re-assured them the best way I could. The next morning, Tuesday morning, they went to work--our machinists and founders. Our farm hands had gone to work, and our furnace men went to work. We had banked our furnaces; we thought we could save them both, so our furnace men went to work again. We took only enough for one furnace, so as to make sure of one; thought we might have to let the other slide until we saved the first, and they went to work, day turn and night turn both. There had been a great deal of talk of trouble, and all that kind of thing, but of course you hear all kinds of rumors at a time like that. I did not take any too much stock in them. Still, we kept our forces in the store all the time. By that time a number of citizens had come in--Colonel Hitchcock, Mr. Ripple, and a number of other gentlemen--and we had signals arranged, and all that kind of thing, in case of trouble, to come out immediately. We had notified the mayor, in case of anything happening to our property, that we should hold the city responsible for damages. Wednesday morning I was down town on some business, and I heard of this meeting at the silk-works. I did not think it would amount to very much more, but while I was down town I heard on all sides that the men had heard that the machine shops were being driven out. I hurried right back to the office, and got there just as the men from the tops of our furnaces were being driven out. I saw the men running. I saw a very large crowd, with sticks and stones, and gesticulation, and those men running and others chasing them, and I knew then it meant business. We had not many men in the store then. Our foremen came in one after another, and stated that the machine shops men there had been driven away and beaten. They came in from the blast furnaces and stated the same thing. Came from the engine-house and stated that it had been set fire to in three places. And I might say, by the way, before this--the very first night I got my foremen together--I took the precaution to have them sworn in as special police, and while we were there my own people came in--probably about thirty or so--and a number of citizens. At that time the mob had got to the railroad shops, and a message came from the mayor stating, for God's sake come down and help him. He was in a sore pass. So 1 made these men a little speech, that we might as well die now as any other time. Come down and do what we could for the mayor. I told them I did not want any fooling. I did not want any man who was not willing to be killed if it was necessary, and did not want any man who was not willing to shoot to kill, and said if there was any man who fired, I wanted him to shoot to kill, that we meant no nonsense. There was only thirty or forty of us. There were three or four thousand of the others, and we wanted no fooling. We wanted them to obey orders to the last degree, and when they received orders to fire, to fire to kill. Nothing else would stop the thing. The thing must be squelched, and the only way to squelch it, when they fired they must fire to kill. That was the only way to save the town. While we were getting ready to go more messages came up, and stated that those men were going from the railroad shops for Pine Grove breaker. I might say that our miners have got an agreement with us. It has been so for some years. They agree to work on, in case of a strike, and we agreed, on our part, to give them, dating from the commencement of the strike, any advance of wages which the railroad company might give their men whenever they settled. If the railroad company gave them ten or fifteen or any per cent. advance, we agreed to give our men the same advance, dating from the start. Our Pine Brook men went in that morning. Understand that our entire force, so far as we had workmen, with the exception of two of our iron rolling men--and we had every reason to believe they would be in the next morning--our miners were at work, and were at work by virtue of agreement with us to work on in case of a strike. I have one of the agreements now in my pocket--a new one, similar to the old one. By that time, we started out. 1 went to the head of them. I did not myself know anything about military matters, beyond keeping the men in line, and that kind of thing, and I gave charge of it to young Bartholomew, who knew something of that sort of thing, and kept them in line and went down. I had seen some riots before, and knew pretty well about how that sort of thing was. We got down street, pretty near the corner of Washington avenue, and this crowd were coming up Washington avenue, and closed in behind our men, and I felt that the time was coming very close, and that it would be necessary to act very quick. They closed in behind us, coming up on each side of the avenue, leaving only the front clear. There were some in front. Not many. They were hooting and yelling, and finally I saw a movement of one or two, apparently leaders, looking at me as though there were getting ready for a rush. I had no doubt of it, and I was just waiting. I heard shouts: "Now, then, come along boys. They won't fire. They have blank cartridges," or something of that sort. There were sticks thrown, and just about as I was going to give the order to fire, I heard a shot fired, and almost simultaneously with that, every man stopped and fired.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where did the shot come from--this first shot you heard?
A. Seemed to be a pistol shot.
Q. From the crowd or mob?
A. Yes; and the crowd rushed up and kind of fell back, and the shooting commenced. The shooting first was wild.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Before that shot was fired, were there any stones or missiles thrown?
A. Many stones and sticks. I was at the head, and the line was a long one--about forty, marching two by two.
Q. Were any stones or missiles thrown at the party to which you belonged?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At the rear of the line?
A. Yes; and on the side also. It looked to me as though they were going to rush. I happened to see the riots in 1863, and I saw the same swing of the crowd--the fellows behind push up those in front. When these things were thrown, the firing commenced. They fell back once or twice--little short rallies--and run, and we went back to the store. The next day the troops came. I might say when we left the store, we heard the men were going to Pine Brook, and that they were calculating to drive out the men that were in there, and burn the breaker.
Q. Were those your mines?
A. Yes, our mines. And also that they were going to stop at Dixon's works on the way.
Q. Were they also your mines?
A. No, sir; they were Dixon Manufacturing Company's works and machine shops. I might say, also, previous to this--the Sunday before this thing--our pump engineers, &c. had been visited, and it was said they were afraid to work, and left us. Of course I put people there in whom I had confidence, to run the pumps and keep them going.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you give us a statement of what you were paying your men at that time?
A. We pay--most of our work is done by the ton. There is very little day-work with us, except shop hands and furnace men. Our rolling-mill men and steel-works men are working now under the same wages under which they struck. Our rolling-mill heaters are making from ninety to one hundred dollars a month. I can bring you the pay-rolls. I have got them at the office. The most of our men in the mills worked by the ton and by the roll--that is permanent men. All except the commoner class of laborers are making now anywhere from forty-five to sixty and seventy-five dollars--along there. The men in the steel-works are making about--well I should think anywhere from forty-five to sixty dollars--along there--it depends entirely on the product. We pay them according to the ton, and if they do small work they get small pay.
Q. Pay in proportion to the amount of work done?
A. Yes, sir; so much a ton. We pay a heater ten cents a ton. If he heats forty tons, he gets four dollars. Our mining wages are regulated entirely by the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western. We pay whatever wages they do. We tried to keep them working as full as possible.
Q. Can you give an estimate of what a man can make a day, should they work in the mines all day?
A. I am not so conversant with the special details of the mines. I can bring the pay-rolls, if you would like. I think that a miner--with our miners in Briggs shaft, I should think the average now depends a good deal on the men themselves--how smart they are--and I should think anywhere from thirty-eight to forty, along to fifty-five and sixty dollars a month. That is, a miner. Of course, a laborer don't make so much.
Q. Laborers in the mines work by the day or by the ton?
A. I think they are paid by the car. I don't remember how that is. A miner hires his own laborer, I believe.
Q. You haven't any particular charge of the details?
A. We pay it, that is all. I don't remember all this. Our Mr. Mattes could tell you better than I can. Our mining wages are virtually out of our hands. Whatever the D.L.W. pay, we pay, and the men, on their part, agree to work through, in case of a strike, and we agree to pay in advance, dating from the commencement of the strike, that the railroad may settle with their men to pay.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Had there been any reduction prior to the 1st of August?
A. Our men, all excepting miners, had been reduced on the 1st of July. The reduction was ten per cent., some not that much, some more--averaging, probably, ten or twelve per cent., I suppose.
Q. Were there any men, under that reduction, that would make less than a dollar a day?
A. Our laborers were making less than eighty cents a day. The number of common laborers we have is very small. We don't have very many. I don't know how many we have, exactly. Our work is by the ton, as far as possible. Of course, it is better to have things by the ton.
Q. When was the reduction before the 1st of July?
A. I don't remember when we did last reduce. I could tell you this evening. Perhaps Mr. Mattes could tell you.
Q. Something has been said about a letter being read at the silk-factory--did you ever try to ascertain how that originated?--purporting to give some statement that you had made?
A. I hear of the letter, of course, that was all. No truth in that letter. The letter was forged. I don't know who wrote it. Perhaps I might give a very good guess, and also, about other things. You have a great deal of knowledge that you cannot give legal force to.
Q. You have never been able to ascertain who it was, so as to prove it, who wrote the letter?
A. I was perfectly satisfied in my mind--no, I have never been able to prove it, but the time will come, undoubtedly, that I shall, and a good many other things, too.
Q. Did you find out what motive induced or actuated the man to send it?
A. It was, undoubtedly, a desire at the time--the men knew, and were perfectly well aware that our men were, for the time being, just terrorized. They knew, as well as I did, that if I could get our iron company men to work, the thing would stop, therefore it was necessary to drive them out to prolong the strike. For the same reason the Pennsylvania Coal Company's head-house was burnt.
Q. How many men did your company employ?
A. I think we have got about eighteen hundred or two thousand. I think there is about sixteen or seventeen hundred signatures on the pay-roll, and a great many of them draw pay for their children--two or three--sometimes. I suppose we have probably employed somewhere in the neighborhood of seventeen or eighteen hundred.
Q. Boys employed?
A. To a very large extent, boys who are under eighteen or twenty give their pay to their parents. Their parents draw it for them. My impression is, there is a law by which a parent can take the child's pay under age. I think they do draw it, though in many cases they do not do it. Their parents are paid.
Q. That includes the miners?
A. Yes; we have three mines. One of our mines is flooded--filled entirely.
Q. On account of the strike?
A. No; I flooded it myself, long ago, so as to run two mines, to give as steady work as possible to those that did work.
By Mr. Means:
Q. I would like you tell what passed between you and the chairman of the committee that waited upon you?
A. The men waited.
Q. First and foremost, do you know the chairman?
A. I really don't know who was chairman of that committee. The men can tell you that better themselves. There were a number of spokesmen. Mr. Duffy spoke, and I don't know but McNally did.
Q. Did you know the spokesmen yourself?
A. Yes; I knew the spokesmen.
Q. Who were they?
A. I think that John Evans was one. I am not sure; but McNally was another. I think Duffy said something.
Q. State what passed between you and the chairman of that committee?
A. They came out after the strike--after they had got the furnacemen off--came to the office to see me. I am not sure whether it was Wednesday or Thursday. I had sent around word, and a good many that I felt were not treating the company right to strike and stop their works, without letting us know what ground of complaint they had, and I sent word around there, so that a committee came, and they stated they wanted more pay. They said thirty-five per cent.
Q. Thirty-five?
A. Thirty-five; yes, sir. Of course, no one in the iron business now could do that. Such an advance as that was out of the question. I told them that was out of the question, we couldn't pay them any more. It was out of the question. We couldn't clear ourselves. I asked them whether it was not better to take what they could get, and work steady until times grew better, than to stop and get nothing. Well, they said, the long and short of the matter was they wouldn't work unless they got thirty-five per cent., and they went away.
Q. Did you say to those men--this committee--when the times got better you were willing to advance their wages?
A. I believe I did say something of that kind in reply. If we could afford it we would be glad to do so.
Q. Did they make any reply to that?
A. I don't remember that they did.
Q. They said they wouldn't work unless you did advance?
A. Yes, sir; but, at that same time, I was receiving information all the time from many sources, that the most of them were perfectly willing to work. All they wanted was protection, and that they would go to work, which they did do on the following Tuesday.
Q. They did go to work on the following Tuesday?
A. All of our men went to work on the following Tuesday, except our iron rolling men. We had no work for the steel mill.
Q. When that committee waited upon you, did they say to you, or did they intimate to you, that they would force you into measures?
A. We had quite a long talk. I don't remember anything of that kind. They said they wouldn't work until they got an advance; of course that is equivalent to forcing a way.
Q. They didn't make any threats?
A. I don't remember of that?
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. In consequence of that strike, did you blow out your furnaces?
A. Lost two furnaces.
Q. What was the damage?
A. It cost us about ten thousand dollars. We made up an itemized list of it soon afterwards. It amounted to about ten thousand dollars--a trifle over. It was a direct damage--it took as much to blast out our scaffold and re-line it, and there was some other incidental damage.
Q. Ten thousand dollars about covers the damage?
A. That is the strike damages--actual loss.
Q. To say nothing of incidental losses?
A. Yes; we paid that out afterwards to fix it.
Q. Was there any loss in the vicinity?
A. The Pennsylvania Company's head-house was burnt; their trellising was burnt, not on the actual day of the riots--it was during that time.
Q. Can you give an estimate account of that?
A. Our Point Brook stable was burnt--that was after we started our works again.
Q. Can you estimate the damage to the Pennsylvania Company?
A. No; other people could tell you better about that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any disposition manifested on the part of your men, to go in to the furnaces and run them, if you would permit them?
A. I don't know of any such; no sir. Of course, we would only have been glad to have them run. If they run them at all, they must run under our protection.
Q. Was there any disposition, any offers made on the part of your men to go in and work?
A. If we would protect them. Oh, yes; if we would protect them after two or three days. The first day, they stated, they were afraid of men striking outside. We labored with the furnace men by night, talking with them, trying to get them to stay. They said they were afraid. The following Tuesday, they got more or less over the fear, and they did go back, if that is what you mean.
Q. Did your men say who made the threats against them--of who they were afraid?
A. No; it was that some men would come to their houses and tell them so and so--tell their wives so and so, some men either told their little girls, and that kind of thing. We could get very little information from them.
Q. The threats were not open and above board?
A. Yes; may have been open, but they didn't give their names to us--were afraid we would act on them.
Q. In your opinion, were those men that made these threats in your employ?
A. Yes, sir; some were. You see, Mr. McGowan cleaned out the Mollies in Schuylkill. A great many of them who had not been apprehended have come up here and they now lie partly between here and Pittston, and Carbondale, and a good many in Oliphant and Carr's Patch; and the men who had been at Minica, were very largely men who were prominent in the riot. These Mollies are now re-organizing here more or less. We have got accurate information. Our information nowadays is very accurate. We know precisely where we stand.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You have stated the substance of the agreement?
A. I have stated the substance of it, that is, with our miners alone. When we took our men back, we made an agreement with all our men, that hereafter they should give us thirty days' notice or forfeit their pay at the time of strike. That agreement was signed by every man who was of any consequence at all. Of course, there is a number of small fry that we don't care anything about.
Q. Signed by the men who carried on your works?
A. It is signed by three fourths of the men in our employ--miners, laborers, driver boys, &c. Our orders are strict in the matter.
Q. Did they enter into this article of agreement with a perfect understanding of what they were doing?
A. They received a printed copy. They agreed to give us thirty days' notice. They all agreed to work on in case of a strike, in case of any commotion elsewhere, they agreed to give us thirty days' notice. If they struck after thirty days' notice, they forfeited all pay due them at the time of the strike. That our miners, in case of a general strike, they agreed to work on through it and we agreed to pay them back pay when the railroad company pays.
Q. The railroad also engages in mining?
A. Yes; the D., L. and W., and the Delaware and Hudson are also mining. We mine no coal except for our own purposes--for our mills and steel-works--and we necessarily make a good deal of fine coal that is not convenient to use ourselves, and we sell what little fine coal we make that we don't want ourselves. We send nothing to New York.
Q. Did you notice any uneasiness among the men, or disposition to strike, prior to the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir. Of course, the great depression of business, and all that kind of thing contributed to make things very hard. There was a great many men out of work--that made it somewhat hard. Of course, a reduction of wages is a thing you never take until a necessity comes on, and you cannot help yourself.
Q. Had there been any talk or organization among the men about a strike prior to the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. Not that I know of, sir. It went like wild-fire everywhere, and took these men like everybody else.
* * * * *
... Powell, re-called:
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Are you prepared to give the figures as to the pay for mining per ton or per car?
A. You referred back, while I was on the stand before, to 1873. I have some figures for the price of mining coal from 1871 to 1878. The Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company in '71, 2, 3, and 4, the G vein would return per car, $1 17-1/2, the E vein, what they call the Diamond vein----
Q. One dollar seventeen and a half cents per car?
A. That was in 1874.
Q. The E vein, how much?
A. Ninety-three and a half cents. Six cars constitute a full shift between the miner and laborer.
Q. That makes what you would call a day's work?
A. A full shift; that is in the G vein. In the E vein, it is seven cars. The laborer draws one third of the total mined, then what remains after deducting expenses, on an average, amounts to about $1 10 at that time.
Q. One dollar and ten cents for a day for the six or seven cars?
A. Expense. That is the wear and tear that has got to come out of the miners. The miner at that wages, would get $3 50, and the laborer about $2 35.
Q. The miner how much?
A. Three dollars and fifty cents. That is, taking now the highest rates ever given. In January, 1875, I was getting ten per cent. reduction, and G vein was then reduced to $1 06 per car.
Q. Just give us the reduction?
A. March 15, in 1876, the Diamond G vein per car, ninety-five and one half.
Q. Was there reduction there?
A. Ten per cent.
Q. In addition to what you have stated?
A. Yes, sir; March 15, fifteen per cent. reduction.
Q. When was the ten per cent. reduction?
A. March, 1877.
Q. Now there is ten per cent. more?
A. Fifteen per cent.
Q. On July 1, was there any reduction?
A. June, 1875, ten per cent.; March 15, 1876, ten per cent.; January, 1876, ten per cent.; March 15, 1877, fifteen per cent.
Q. Was there any reduction after that?
A. No, sir; not for the miners. There is one thing, we have another vein here which we call the G vein, top and bottom, that is seventy-two cents per car.
Q. Has this reduction been general in all the mines, the same per centage?
A. The same per centage.
Q. Is there anything else?
A. You refer to the number of days worked. I can give you that.
Q. Your own days?
A. Through the courtesy of the superintendent of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western I got the number of days from their books. The number of days worked in 1876, one hundred and sixty-five and three quarters. That was the breaker work in a year, making an average of $14 per month, that is the whole breaker work. You take the mines there, and all they make is an average of $12 per month--of the miners. In 1877 it averaged about--the breaker work--about $16; that would give the miners about $13 per month. In 1878 it lacks an average of $12, which would give the miners nearly $10.
Q. How many days did you make in any month?
A. I took the whole average of the mines.
Q. Got that from what?
A. The books of the company.
Q. Of the company you are working for?
A. Yes, sir.
* * * * *
Isaac Felts, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State whether your store was broken open on the 1st day of August last?
A. The 1st day of August I found it was broken open. They said it was broken open in the morning.
Q. Done in the night or during the morning?
A. After midnight.
Q. How far from Scranton is it?
A. It is about three miles, or three and one half, I should judge.
Q. In which direction?
A. It is south from here--pretty nearly south.
Q. How far beyond the silk-factory?
A. It must be two and one half miles, probably.
Q. Is it near the church that stands out at Greenwood?
A. It is beyond the church; it is about half a mile or so beyond the church.
Q. State what your damage was?
A. As near as I can judge, I think it is between $3,000 and $4,000.
Q. Goods that were carried off?
A. Goods carried off.
Q. What kind of goods?
A. All kinds of merchandise. Goods pretty much that belong to a country store. We had to keep a little of most everything there.
Q. Was anything in the shape of ammunition or arms taken away?
A. No, sir; not that I know of. I had mining supplies. I had some little powder there, and one thing or other that was not taken. There was no ammunition that I knew of.
* * * * *
Joe Shoemaker, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were do you live?
A. Over in the Eleventh ward, Sixth street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Blacksmith.
Q. Where were you on the 1st day of August last?
A. The 1st day of August I went to work in the morning at the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company's--down here at the flats.
Q. Go on and tell us what you did that day?
A. I worked there, and about between eleven and twelve o'clock--the miners had a meeting at the silk-factory, and the men came down and called us out. My woman was down there. "Joe," she says, "Come out, the miners will kill you;" says I, "I guess they won't do that." I went out and came up near the boiler-shop--and went out--I was the last man that went out of that shop. I didn't want to go out, I was satisfied with the wages Scranton offered me. I didn't want to go out, but they all went out, and so I went out--I closed the door of the shop, and I went out when everybody was done. I wanted to see what was going on, and I seen them--they went in the boiler-shop. There was a man working in there by the name of Hilton, and there was hollering inside, and I didn't know what was the matter, and I saw a man jump out and some fellow standing outside the door, he was jumping against the door. The door fly open and knocked them fellows back, and they run right in. They picked up stones and fired at them. They seen me, I had my sleeves rolled up. They thought that is a working man, and they fired at me. I got four stones, one on that shoulder, and one on that, and one right here, [indicating.] I sat down. I could not move myself any more. I hopped up, and when I got there he said, "Joe that blow I would not have for fifty dollars." I didn't want to tell them I got hurt. The engineer was getting out, he was half ways in the window and half ways out when they got at him.
Q. Do you know any of those men that were hammering your engineer?
A. I was too far away. I was up at Robinson's brewery. I was too far off. I didn't go near them any more. He run around the building, and when he got to the foundry there was a pile of pig iron of about three foot high, and he run down, and some people stopped there by the foundry, and they picked up stones and fired at him. When he was behind that pig iron, he was gone from my eyes. That was all I could see of him. If it was not for the stopping work, I would have had about $120 in my pocket, where I didn't have a cent. I was willing to work on, but they didn't let me.
Q. How long was you idle?
A. Three months idle. Had a family with three children, and was willing to work, but I couldn't work.
Q. Because they would not let you?
A. No.
Q. How much did you get a day when they drove you out of the shop?
A. I had $1 53. My wages is $40 any how, and then the three months makes me $120 lost. Whose fault is it? Not mine. I was willing to work. It was not the company's fault either.
Q. The fault of strikers, was not it?
A. Yes; and then they hit me, and I had to lay two weeks in the bed, and the society to where I belong had to pay me benefits.
Q. What society do you belong to?
A. To a Dutch society--to two of them. I belong now twenty years--to one of them twenty-five years.
Q. What is the name of that society?
A. St. Joseph's Verein and Lackawanna Mutual Association.
Q. What is that society for?
A. For to pay benefits, same as Odd Fellows. Pay benefit if a man is sick. If you die, the woman gets $50. If you are sick, you have $4 a week. The society paid that at the time they hit me, and they had to pay me for it because it was not my fault. They didn't want to do it, but they had to do it. I said it was not my fault. I went to work for my family, and I got hurt. It was not my fault, and they had to pay me, so they did.
* * * * *
Charles F. Mattes, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence and your business, if you please?
A. My residence is here in Scranton. I have general charge of the coal mines, and real estate agent of the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company. In reference to this matter, I will state just here that I was not an eye witness of those riots. When this suit was brought against the parties who were engaged in the shooting, I was charged with the gathering of evidence in the case on the part of the defendants, and it brought me in communication with a great many persons who were witnesses who were directly concerned, and I presume it is supposed for that reason that I could give more information than, perhaps, any other person in reference to it; but what I would have to say would not be from observation, but from other parties.
Q. We don't care to have you describe the riot as it occurred here that day. That has been described by so many gentlemen. I wish you would give us what information you have as to the cause of the riots, and what your information is as to what produced them, based upon information that you collected in making these defenses?
A. In the first place, the strike originated here with the railroad employés--firemen and brakemen ostensibly. Miners and mechanics, generally, and workmen generally were working on quietly, and with no demonstration of any sort, apparently reasonably well satisfied. There had been, from time to time, reductions in the wages, which are always accompanied, as every one knows, with more or less feeling of dissatisfaction on the part of those whose pay is reduced; but this strike here, it occurred to me, was a sympathetic movement in accord with the strike of the firemen. By that strike all transportation ceased. Of course the mines could not be carried on. The men were thrown out of employment; they could not work if they desired to, because there were no cars and no means of carrying away the product of the mines. The consequence was, they would meet together, and these matters were discussed. Agitators would go among them. The better class of men were overruled, and the more violent agitators carried the day, and it resulted in a strike and demand of an increase of twenty-five per cent. in the rate of wages, at a time when everything was depressed, and it was so preposterous. They were assured by a good many that it was a foolish demand, and one they could not expect to have acceded to, and must result in a prolongation of their idleness if they insisted upon that demand. I don't know as I could add anything to what has already been said here as to the cause. The strike on the railroad, in my view, was the primary cause, and it threw the men idle, and as is pretty nearly always the case, there was more or less trouble.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You think the strike at Pittsburgh was the cause of the strike at Scranton?
A. ...
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why was it?
A. Because this movement was carried through on the railroads. The railroads were all stopped. Many other classes of men were working along contentedly, satisfied that they were doing the best thing they could do, if they were not satisfied with their wages. We all know they were feeling as though they were working for low wages, and those men who came among them did their utmost to create this spirit of dissatisfaction, and induce the strike.
Q. What combination, if any, was there between railroad men and other laborers?
A. I don't know that there was any direct combination. There was said to be a general labor union organized at the time. We heard a great deal of unions of various occupations, and of a general union of laboring and workingmen.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you succeed in tracing that thing to a reliable source to find whether there was a union organized here?
A. I was perfectly satisfied in my own mind that there was a union. As to the existence of it, I couldn't definitely say.
Q. Was there any riot organized in the city of Scranton?
A. I think so.
Q. Composed of what class of men?
A. Composed of all classes of workingmen, so far as I could get at it. I was satisfied it was so. I couldn't state that positively, nor I couldn't point to men as directly connected with it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were the railroad employés the prime movers in this strike?
A. It occurred to me they were. They took the initiative at any rate in striking. They spoke first.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The railroad employés did.
A. Yes. I mean by the railroad men, the men operating their trains. There was a large mass of miners--much the larger mass of miners are employés of the railroad company in this vicinity.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. From the information you got, do you think there was an organization, and it was understood that the railroad men were the first to strike?
A. No, sir; I don't know that that is so.
Q. From your own knowledge of the state of the case then, as I understand it, you think the railroad men struck first of their own accord?
A. It appeared so to me, and, from any knowledge I have, I should judge it was so.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And the rest followed from a general sympathy of all laboring classes with them?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I want to know whether the railroad men struck before or after the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. I think it was directly after--just about that same time, and just about the same time the thing followed around all over in quick succession.
Q. Do you recollect the day when they struck?
A. No, sir; I don't.
Q. Do you recollect the day the trains stopped running?
A. No, sir. I could easily have ascertained this point, only I didn't suppose I would be called upon for anything of the kind, and made no preparations.
Q. You think it was not until after the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. It was just about that time. I think it was just after.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have you learned whether it was by a pre-concerted arrangement that they should strike here?
A. No, sir; but it appeared as if they did so. We knew very well there were labor organizations among the railroad men. They had their brotherhoods of engineers, and of firemen, and of brakemen, &c.
Q. Was there such an organization here as the Trainmen's Union that you knew of?
A. I never heard of it by that name. I had nothing particularly to do with the railroad, and, of course, wouldn't be as well posted in that as in some other matters.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. From the investigation you made, and from your knowledge of the strike here, do you think there would have been any strike here had you heard nothing of the strike at Pittsburgh and other parts of the country?
A. I think there would have been.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why do you think there would not have been?
A. The men were working on peaceably, and apparently contented, and there were no demonstrations made, whatever, and they were getting reasonable pay.
Q. Did you hear any of those strikers say it was because the men struck at Pittsburgh and in Virginia or any other place?
A. You could get no reason out of them. I conversed with many men, but there was scarcely an instance in which he would acknowledge that he was a striker. He stopped simply because the rest of the men stopped.
Q. It was apparently infectious?
A. I don't think I met with a dozen men who would acknowledge that they were interested in the strike.
By Mr. Means:
Q. He proposed that if he was in Rome he would do as Rome does?
A. There was another reason assigned, something in substance to that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. They wouldn't acknowledge that they were engaged in striking, in the conversations you had with them?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was there any fear, you think, operating on the minds of those men with whom you conversed that if they did acknowledge they were engaged in a strike they might be discharged by their several employers?
A. There may have been. I have no doubt some were affected in that way--no doubt of that, whatever.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I understood the witness to say that the railroad men struck first?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there not a strike among other classes of men--iron men and rolling-mill men?
A. Not until after the railroad strike occurred.
Q. Another strike preceding that?
A. I have no recollection of any; no, sir. Not a matter of recent date. There may have been some local strikes about here, or some local difficulties, as is frequently the case. Sometimes there would be a strike at one mine because of some local difficulty. That won't affect the general region, whatever. That is frequently the case.
Q. What is the general custom of the men that strike? Is it their custom, when they quit work, to prevent other men from working?
A. Almost universally so.
Q. And by what means?
A. By intimidation of various sorts. Doing it at their houses mainly?
Q. Threatening them?
A. While the miners were idle, it has been the practice, heretofore, in this valley, for pump men to continue at work through the strike. I have never known a case but where they were stopped. In this case--I can speak positively to this one fact--that at one of the collieries that I have charge of, the pump men were visited by a crowd of men at night and threatened, and ordered to stop. This I have from the men themselves.
Q. Threatened with what?
A. Threatened with violence--to be beaten--forced out, if they didn't stop. The men, in this particular case, requested to remain until morning, and not to drop everything, and leave it unprotected. In the morning they were so badly frightened that they refused to continue at work. Then there was no recourse but either to let the mines fill, or to get other parties to work in their places.
Q. What means were resorted to prevent men from working that wished to work?
A. By beating them, going to their houses, and threatening them, sometimes, sending communications--sometimes are ornamented with cross-bones, and coffins, and pistols, and skulls.
Q. Drawings on paper?
A. Enough to frighten them. Sometimes men desire to be intimidated that way, as an excuse. I think so, many times.
Q. Have any of those threats ever been carried out?
A. Yes. Men have frequently been beaten.
Q. And killed?
A. I cannot re-call of any cases here, where men have been killed.
Q. Driven away by force?
A. Yes, sir. In this case of our colliery, the house of the man who was working as a pump-man--he had been working in the mines for years--been foreman at one time--his house--his house was visited twice, pistol shots fired into it, stones thrown at it, he was stoned and forced from his work; and another man, who was working with me was stoned, his house was stoned several times by parties, in the night. Who they were, we cannot tell, of course.
Q. Where men didn't obey the advice of those men that threatened them, was it generally followed by violence?
A. It very frequently has been.
Q. Has it been generally followed by violence, so far as your observation and knowledge extends?
A. No, sir; I wouldn't say generally, because threats have been so common. I could hardly say it was general; but, as a rule, men have been intimidated by the threats.
Q. I want to know whether, where they didn't obey the commands of these men that made the threats, and didn't cease work, whether that was generally followed by violence?
A. That is a very general question.
Q. So far as your observation extends?
A. I wouldn't say generally; no, sir; I would say that it has been frequently followed by violence.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you seen any of the threatening letters--letters with coffins, &c., on them?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Been shown you by the men?
A. Yes. I have sometimes taken them off the works.
Q. Taken them off--how?
A. Found them posted up; because where they had been posted up, they had been so frightened by them, that they wouldn't go in--wouldn't go to work for a day or two, until they got over the strike. I have some of them. I think I could scare up a few.
Q. In our examination we have had a good many terms we are not familiar with, and I don't know but what we ought to have some definition of them. For instance, blacklegs?
A. A blackleg, as I understand it, is generally applied to a man who takes another man's place. This I understand to apply to a man who, when one man strikes, another goes in and takes his place; but it is just as commonly applied to those who continue at work, and will not go on a strike--they are denominated blacklegs. That was so in this case.
Q. Have you any scabs in this county?
A. I don't think that is used much about the mines. I have heard that applied to shoe-makers more than any one else. That is, fellows who were wandering about, without any settled place.
* * * * *
L. C. Bortree, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside, Mr. Bortree?
A. I reside in the Ninth ward of the city of Scranton.
Q. What is your business?
A. I am going to be a farmer on Tuesday next. I am not doing anything now.
Q. What were you doing on the 1st August last?
A. Special policeman.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Of the city of Scranton--of the mayor?
A. Yes, sir; under the mayor.
Q. State where you were on the morning of the 1st August, when the men came from the silk-works into the shops, driving the employés out of the shops?
A. Allow me to state it as it was.
Q. In brief?
A. I was here on duty on the upper end of this avenue during the night of the last of July or the 1st of August. I had permission of the chief of police to leave here at five o'clock. Well, I did. During this time there was a fire at what was said to be the Pennsylvania railroad, No. 5. I went out and returned about ten o'clock. I called in to the coal and iron company's store up here, to get a rubber overcoat, with the intention of going home. While I was there, Mr. W. W. Scranton, says to me--I used to be deputy sheriff, was deputy sheriff for the past twelve years, off and on, at this end of the county. I had nothing else from the 24th of November, 1871, till the 12th April, 1878.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Just come to the facts?
A. I stopped there and I went up and looked through a field-piece, and saw a large quantity of men.
Q. Field-glass?
A. Field-glass. I came down, just at the time I came from the building, some one said, that the mayor had sent for his posse. I supposed I was one, as I was a special police. W. W. Scranton gives me a gun, and he said, "Let's form this line." Well, I did. I said to him, "Scranton, I am as well known in this city as you are, and you take one end of the line and I will take the other." I fell back in the rear of the line, and Mr. Carl McKinney was my comrade. We started out of that store and came down, probably, two or three hundred feet, and I saw a man whom I thought I knew, on the opposite side.
Q. Come down where?
A. Come down this way.
Q. Lackawanna avenue?
A. Yes, sir; from the company's store. I was in the street railroad that passes here, on the opposite side of the track from here, and I saw this man drawing a revolver, and, I think, it was a four-barreled revolver, and he emptied that at me, at least I think he did. I carried my gun in that hand--my left hand--and taking this right hand I says, "For God's sake keep quiet." I came on a little further, about a hundred feet. Before we struck Washington avenue, stones and clubs were thrown. Bear in mind, I was in the rear end, and when we passed that there was some----
Q. Passed what?
A. Passed the avenue, on the edge of it--the upper edge. Say for instance, that was the first edge of Washington avenue, [illustrating.] this man McKinney was close by me. Sometimes I was ten feet from him, sometimes twelve. Just as I struck Washington avenue, there was a man asked me--came up to me and he says, "You son of a bitch, give me that gun." I says, "You can't have my gun." He fell back in the crowd and I heard some one--who it was I don't know--say, "Let's rally on them," or something to that effect. "They have nothing but blank cartridges." Another man, whom I knew, came up within ten or twelve feet of me, and he called me, "Sheriff, you son of a bitch, give me that gun." I says, "No, you can't have my gun; for God's sake get your people off these streets." Previous to this there was three or four shots from these men, who was a hundred feet before you strike Washington avenue. When we struck Washington avenue, there was one, two, or three--anyway that I know--I am sure of one that was shot.
Q. One man shot?
A. Not any one from us, sir----
By Mr. Means:
Q. That was before you passed Washington street?
A. Yes; there was from three to four before we struck Washington avenue, and I saw a man when he shot--from three to four shots--just above Monie & Pugh's store, on the right hand side of this avenue. We came down on the center of the avenue. Of course, I do not know how the front end of our squad was. Of course, we were two by two. As soon as we passed through, they closed up like this.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Behind you?
A. Yes, behind me.
Q. Behind the end, as they were marching along?
A. Yes; and I saw parties there whom I knew, and I says to them, "For God's sake, boys, get off the street." I crossed over the avenue. I was struck in the left arm, struck in the shoulder, and struck in the back of the neck.
Q. What with?
A. One was, I am sure, a piece of a shovel handle. I saw it coming. There was a stone thrown which struck a man right behind me by the name of--I can't tell you his name--he was up here at the company's store. When I saw it coming, I dodged it, and it went over me.
Q. Many stones thrown?
A. Stones, clubs, sticks, and everything that you might think of.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You have stated, I believe, that you did advise a crowd there and then to go to their respective homes?
A. I says, to leave the streets. There ain't a man in this room but what knows me. Then we came down after we crossed the avenue, and this man, McKinney, he was next to me--I saw a man on the left hand side, at what is called Slager's building, have a revolver at the corner of the building, and he shot, and about the time he shot, some of our vigilants, as they call them, shot, and it lasted for probably, about a minute, I do not think it lasted two minutes.
Q. What was the effect of the firing?
A. The effect of the firing, I saw three men lying dead then and there--I suppose they were dead. One on the right hand side, as you go up this way, his name was Dunlevy.
Q. Were there any other ones wounded?
A. I could not swear to that, any further than seeing a man carried up the avenue on a stretcher of some kind.
Q. Did the crowd disperse?
A. They did. They dispersed right away, as soon as the first volley. I think there was somebody fell.
Q. Did you fire?
A. I did, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did the man fall that you shot at?
A. I do not know that.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. I suppose you didn't shoot to waste your fire?
A. You heard what Mr. Scranton swore to.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there any firing after the crowd started to run?
A. Yes; there was. I saw a gentleman in this crowd that came near blowing my ear off, and while going--we had breach loaders.
Q. After the crowd started to run, did they fire?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he with the crowd?
A. No; he belonged to the posse.
Q. He fired after the crowd started.
A. Yes; and then he loaded again, and it went off again, and I then told him not to put any more in that gun. It was accidental shooting. It was done all within a half second from the time that the first shot was fired. I do not think the shooting from the vigilants, as they term us, and I was the last man in the crowd--and I don't think it lasted one minute.
Q. All the firing?
A. From the time the vigilants opened fire until it had ceased.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you know the leader of this crowd?
A. I know two gentleman in that crowd, two that I supposed----
Q. Did you know them to be the leaders of that crowd or mob?
A. I know there was men in that crowd that said, "Boys, come on."
Q. I want to know this: if you know the leader of that crowd?
A. I should say I did.
Q. Were they railroad employés, were they colliers, or what were they?
A. I could not say the position they held in life.
Q. You have stated in your evidence, that you had told this crowd to disperse and go to their homes--what was their reply?
A. They said, "You sons of bitches, we will take your guns from you and we will clean the avenue." Whether the man I spoke to said it or some one else, I cannot say. There was lots of clubs thrown about this time, and stones. I was struck two or three times myself.
Q. In your evidence, you have said that they attempted or asked you to take your gun--who was the party that done that?
A. That question I don't propose to answer.
Q. I insist on it?
A. I will not answer that question.
Q. Did they belong to the rioters?
A. I object to answering to that.
Q. The man was one of the rioters--this party that tried to take your gun?
A. He is a man that asked me to take my gun.
Q. Did he belong to the rioter party?
A. He did.
At this point the committee adjourned, to meet at the call of the chair.
PITTSBURGH, April 6, 1878.
The sub-committee on railroad riot met at the Orphans' court room at ten o'clock, A.M. Mr. Reyburn in the chair. Present, Messrs. Reyburn, Torbert, Yutzy, Englebert, and Means.
* * * * *
David A. Stewart, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Stewart?
A. I live on Homewood avenue, Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am president of the Pittsburgh Locomotive Works and Columbia Oil Company.
Q. Were you present on the 19th of July, the breaking out or first commencement of the riot?
A. The 19th. That was Thursday, was not it?
Q. Yes?
A. I was in the city on Thursday.
Q. Will you be kind enough just to make a statement, in your own way, of what you know of the occurrences of that day?
A. The only excitement that I saw was on the street, but on Friday morning when I came into the city--I live six miles out--in the city limits--but six miles from the neighborhood--I understood Mr. Cassatt was there, and I went to see him, and say to him that the city of Pittsburgh was very poorly off for police--one hundred odd men having been discharged--and suggested that he would get the mayor to employ those that had been discharged, and guarantee the payment of their wages, to protect the property of the company and the peace of the city, which he agreed to do. He said he did not know Mayor McCarthy, and I offered to take him down and introduce him. He started to go, and then was called back on some other business, and could not go, and requested me to take a carriage and go down and see the mayor, and bring him up if I could. I took a carriage and went down, and met the mayor on the steps of the city hall; went up to him and said to him I had been sent down by Mr. Cassatt, who would like very much to see him, and I offered a carriage, and asked him if he would come along up and see Mr. Cassatt. He said he would not; he would not have anything to do with it, the whole matter had been taken out of his hands. That there was no necessity, he said, of bringing the military here, that he could have allayed this whole thing if it had been left in his hands. I asked him if he would see Mr. Cassatt, if I would bring him down. He says, "No; I will have nothing to do with him," and he turned on his heel and left, and did not wait to hear the proposition. I did not make the proposition, because he would not wait to hear anything.
Q. Did you see the mayor himself?
A. The mayor himself, on the steps of the city hall, and he saw the carriage there ready, right in front of him, to take him to the depot, if he had gone. This was on Friday morning.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you go back and report to Mr. Cassatt?
A. I went back and reported to Mr. Cassatt that he had declined to see me--to come to see him, or to see him.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you acquainted with the Mayor?
A. Oh, I know him. Not intimately. Have been in his office frequently before. I think he knew me, too.
Q. Have you any knowledge of any steps taken by the mayor to preserve the peace?
A. Not at that time. He declined then. He said the matter had been taken out of his hands, and he would not do anything.
Q. Do you know of his having taken any step at any time?
A. Well, after that--after the fire on Sunday, I saw him then with a lot of police, bringing some men from the Brownsville boat, or Connellsville road, or somewhere along there--after the fire on Sunday. I was not in town on Sunday, owing to an article in the Globe that Thomas A. Scott was at my house directing affairs from there. Having my family over there, I expected a lot of those men out there. I was at my house in East Liberty, around about the stock-yards, all day on Sunday.
Q. You say there was an article in the Globe newspaper published here?
A. On Sunday morning.
Q. That Thomas A. Scott was at your house?
A. Directing affairs from there.
Q. Was Mr. Scott there?
A. He was not there at any time during the riot. Was not there before the riot, nor has he been there since.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the mayor say to you who had taken this matter out of his hands--what authority had taken it out of his hands?
A. I do not think he said what authority. He said the whole matter had been taken out of his hands.
Q. Did not say who did it?
A. No; he may have stated the sheriff, but I am not sure about that--stated he would have nothing to do with it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where were you on Saturday? Where are your works located?
A. Our works are located in Allegheny, but my office is on Sixth street. I was not up about on Saturday. I was at the Union depot about the time the firing commenced at Twenty-eighth street, and I went out on the first train to home; but after the train could get through, and come up as far as the yard, it was stopped at the yard, owing to the troubles at Twenty-eighth street, and I suppose we were there half an hour. I was not at Twenty-eighth street at the time of the firing. I saw great crowds of people around the tracks as our train got through.
Q. Did the crowd seem excited?
A. Oh, yes; close up to the tracks along on both sides. That was after the first volley had been fired. There was no firing at the time I went through there. That was about five o'clock in the evening.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you about the Fort Wayne depot during Saturday or Sunday?
A. No, sir.
Q. Don't you know anything about the doings of the mob down there?
A. I was not in town on Sunday at all. I saw the troops there at the passenger depot at one o'clock that day, when the Philadelphia troops arrived there, when they were taking their lunch at the Union depot.
Q. Were you over in Allegheny at any time during the trouble?
A. No, sir; not at all during the trouble.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you apply to any of the other officials--sheriff or any other authorities?
A. No; I did not. I am not connected with the railroad in any way, except I am director in the Allegheny Valley road. I talked to Mr. McCargo about him applying, but he thought it was not any use, after the refusal to Mr. Cassatt.
Q. After the mayor refused?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What was the nature of that editorial in the Globe--was it inflammatory?
A. It was not an editorial; it was a local notice, stating that Thomas A. Scott was at the house of his nephew, D. A. Stewart, on Penn avenue, and directing affairs from there. That was to create excitement. There was more inflammatory articles in the extra of the Critic issued on Sunday.
Q. The Globe was a Sunday paper also?
A. The Globe was a Sunday paper also.
By Mr. Means:
Q. What was the tenor of that article in the Critic--to excite?
A. To excite the populace.
Q. Or to allay the excitement?
A. I think it was signed "Thirty Thousand Citizens," calling for a meeting at city hall, on Sunday, at one o'clock. If I remember, the tenor was to put down the railroad men, and all that sort of thing.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Put down the strikers?
A. Tom Scott and the balance of them.
By Mr. Means:
Q. The railroad officials?
A. The better plan is to get the article itself, instead of letting me describe it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was this in the Critic or Globe?
A. In the extra of the Critic, on Sunday. The Critic had a regular edition, and afterwards issued an extra that was distributed about noon, or during the forenoon.
Q. Is there anything else that you know in regard to the riots that would be of interest to us?
A. I do not know anything directly. You know, I was about East Liberty on Sunday, and there is nothing that would be evidence. I saw the troops there, and I went to the general, and got him to distribute a guard around the stock-yards and Penn avenue, and made suggestions of that kind.
Q. Did the troops preserve order there?
A. Everything was very quiet there on Sunday, about East Liberty.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you have any conversation with Tom Scott or Mr. Cassatt in regard to this matter, except what you have stated about the mayor furnishing police, or anything that would have any tendency to put down this riot?
A. I don't remember now of any. I heard rumors that were current, of one kind and another, which I would not consider as evidence. I heard Mayor McCarthy made such and such speeches, but I don't know who from. That would not be evidence.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the conduct of the troops out at East Liberty, those that come under your observation?
A. They were very orderly and behaved. They had nothing to do, specially, there. I saw them have their drill there on Sunday evening. General White's troops were up above Torrens, and I applied to him first about having this guard placed along Penn avenue. At first there was no guard there, and there was danger of men coming out and setting fire to the stock-yards; and I applied to him, and he said General Gallagher was the officer in command, and I applied to General Gallagher, and he said he would have it attended to. I went back in a couple of hours, and it still was not done, but he did have it done that afternoon. I saw there was danger, and it might create a great deal of trouble, but they had a guard placed all along Penn avenue, and also requested that there should be a guard put at the lower end of the yard, the upper end of the tracks, to keep persons from going there, except what was necessary on business, which they did. I was in the telegraph office, and heard the reports about the wreck of that stock train.
By Mr. Means:
Q. The disposition of the troops was to maintain order?
A. There was no difficulty, particularly. I think everything was quiet about East Liberty and about the stock-yards on that day--on Sunday.
Q. They were ready to do their duty?
A. Ready to do their duty.
* * * * *
Joseph Thomas, sworn:
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Thomas?
A. Reside at No. 117, Bluff street, Sixth ward, Pittsburgh.
Q. Were you the coroner at the time of the riots in July last?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you be kind enough to state to the committee the number of persons killed during those riots that came within your official knowledge?
A. There was twenty-two that was killed, and there was two that died from wounds. One was Lieutenant Ash, of Philadelphia, and a man by the name of Evans, that was wounded on Sunday morning, and died afterwards. They had amputated his limbs, and he died. I took his deposition.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was he a soldier?
A. No; a citizen shot in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventy street on that Sunday morning. That is all I have any account of altogether.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What were those--citizens?
A. There was four soldiers--four Philadelphia soldiers, altogether, counting Ash. One of our soldiers that belongs around here, and the others were all citizens. That would be five, counting Ash, that I held an inquest on.
Q. What were the occupations of those men that were killed? Do you remember?
A. I think that I have got a list down there, if it has not been mislaid. There was some of all kinds, painters--some railroad men among them, there was some rolling-mill men, I think--yes, I know of one. I did have a list of them.
Q. Could you give the committee a list of the killed, with a statement----
A. Statement on my docket? I could. I had a list made out, which I gave the grand jury. I don't know what they did with it.
Q. We would like to have the list of killed from your docket?
A. Yes, and the place they were killed?
Q. Yes?
A. And their occupation?
Q. Yes; just a description of them, so that the committee can file them in their report. Where were those men killed?
A. The majority of them were killed in the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and some were killed about the corner of Twenty-sixth or Twenty-seventh. That was during Sunday morning--Saturday night.
Q. During the time the troops were in the round-house?
A. Yes, sir. This one soldier that belongs here, he was shot up on the hill. I had been out in Sharpsburg that afternoon, and was within a couple of squares at the time of the firing. I could see him laying up on the hill from Liberty street.
Q. You speak of this man Evans having made a deposition?
A. He was shot right in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventh street.
Q. He was further out on Penn avenue?
A. Yes, sir; that was on the road that the troops retreated on. Butler street there was another--a saloon-keeper shot pretty near the same place. This man Evans' deposition, as near as I can remember, was, that he was engaged in the Valley round-house, taking charge of the engines, and running them in, and he had got done work, and went down to see about some relatives of his--went down street apiece, and saw the troops coming, and he turned off and went around the corner and waited until they passed, he said that after they went apiece, he followed them up on his way home. He was shot in the ankle.
Q. That was on Sunday morning?
A. Yes, sir; that saloon-keeper--he was shot at his own door, and there was a man that was carried in Doctor Robinson's--I don't remember his name, but I can give it to you--was shot just about a square above that. He was a plasterer.
Q. Did you have a physician to make a post mortem examination of the dead?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. What appeared to be the nature of the injuries of the soldiers that were killed? Did they appear to be wounded from rifle bullets or pistol bullets?
A. They appeared to be mostly gun-shot wounds. There was one of them had a hole you could pretty near put your fist through. It was where a ball came out. It appeared like a minie-ball. There were two soldiers. They were laid out by Mr. Devore. By the time I got there, he had them fixed up to be shipped, and he could give you a description of their wounds.
Q. Joseph?
A. Mr. Devore, the undertaker; he got them in Lawrenceville. He had them fixed up at the time I got to see them, and he could give you a description of them.
Q. Did you think they were all gun-shot wounds?
A. All gun-shot wounds, except one.
Q. Rifle of large caliber?
A. Yes. Well, these minie-ball are not a very big ball, but they make an ugly wound sometimes.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. I suppose the Senator means that they were not pistol shots?
A. No; I feel confident they were gun-shot wounds.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The wounds of how many men did you examine--of the soldiers?
A. These two in Devores. I don't know whether I examined the wounds or not. Mr. Devore would know. The other one up here I did. It was a very big wound. He was killed about Thirty-third street.
Q. A citizen?
A. No; he was a soldier. I think he had two wounds in him.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was he a Philadelphia soldier?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were there any women and children killed?
A. I didn't see any. There were rumors around the streets Saturday afternoon that there was, but I didn't see any.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You held no inquest upon any children or women?
A. No, sir; there were places pointed out to me Saturday where there had been women or children shot, but I didn't hear anything of it afterwards.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have no knowledge of any being killed--children or women?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Have you any information, or did you see any of the occurrences on Saturday--Sunday that would be? You are county officer--are you a county officer?
A. Yes, sir. I was about two squares from the firing at the time it commenced, coming down Liberty street. I think I was up about Thirty-first street, about three squares.
Q. Coming this way?
A. Yes, sir; coming this way. I went up along Liberty street in the afternoon about two o'clock, and I was in a buggy when the firing commenced, about three squares up Liberty street from Twenty-eighth street. I could see the people up on the hill from where I was, the dust rising when the balls would strike. I was not near enough to recognize anybody.
Q. State how many you know of having been wounded?
A. Three.
Q. What were they?
A. One was a Philadelphia soldier.
Q. Where was he wounded?
A. He was wounded, I think, in this side, [indicating left side.]
Q. Which side?
A. I think on the left side.
Q. Where--what part of the city?
A. He was wounded out in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventh or Thirty-eighth streets.
Q. Was his a gun-shot wound?
A. I think it was a pistol shot.
Q. What were the others?
A. The others appeared to me like a pistol shot. This boy Jones, he was there in the hospital. He was shot in that place. His wound appeared like a pistol-shot wound. He was shot about the forks of the road. That would be, I suppose, Thirty-fifth street, maybe. Then there was another man by the name of Scott that was wounded in the leg. I didn't see his wound.
* * * * *
Mayor Phillips, sworn:
By Mr. Means:
Q. I would like to ask you one question. The committee would like to know, or I would, at least, if you put Allegheny City into the hands of this man Ammon, and if so, what you told him?
A. Put Allegheny city into the hands of Ammon?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Emphatically, no! I never put anything into the hands of Ammon.
Q. Did you tell him to take charge of the lower part of Allegheny City?
A. I did not, sir.
Q. Did you tell him to resist any arrest that might be attempted to be made upon him?
A. Positively, no! I will tell you what I did say. When I went, I found there were five or six hundred men, and my force was very small and I cautioned them to be careful what they are doing, that they would get themselves into trouble, there is danger ahead, and says I, "Be careful what you are doing." That was the sum and substance of what I said. I cautioned Ammon, and it turns out there were three or four of my officers heard me say so. The chief of police is here now, if you would like to have him corroborate it.
Q. Do you know of any official communication that Ammon had with the railroad officials?
A. I do not, sir.
Q. Do you know of any communication at all that he had with them?
A. Hearsay, sir. I know nothing of my own knowledge--only heard it indirectly, from some person to me, that he had something from J. D. Layng.
Q. He did not tell you himself?
A. No, sir.
Q. Saw no telegram from Mr. Layng to him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Robert Ammon during the time he had charge of that railroad--the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. Yes, sir; I had conversation--at the time he had charge?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. I did not know that he had charge. He was there.
Q. Did he tell you at any time that one of your police officers attempted to arrest him, and he refused to be arrested?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know of the fact that one of your police officers attempted to arrest him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you, at any time, attempt to arrest Ammon--any of your officers?
A. Afterwards. Will I give you the particulars of that, sir--the time that I went down with the policemen to protect that ten miles of freight, and again to bring up the first lot.
Q. What day was that?
A. I cannot tell you.
Q. That was after the riot?
A. Several days.
Q. I mean the Friday morning when the trouble first commenced in Allegheny?
A. It was Thursday or Friday before the troubles over here--Thursday or Friday. You asked me about something on Friday?
Q. Yes?
A. No. I only went down there at that time. I think that is the only time I ever saw him, except after that, the day he was arrested.
Q. Did he tell you that one of your officers had attempted to arrest him, and he refused to submit, because he had not a warrant?
A. No; I don't remember that--because he hadn't a warrant. No, sir. I never heard of this thing, either through Ammon or the policeman. I know nothing of it at all. I don't believe it.
Q. Do you remember Ammon telling you this?
A. No; I do not.
Q. That you said in reply that that was right, and for him to go ahead?
A. That's stuff. That ain't my style.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Allow no man to arrest him?
A. Oh, no, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At any time sent policemen to arrest Mr. Ammon, in preserving the peace?
A. I sent police down. I sent a note over to--I am not sure whether I sent the note over to see John McCauley, and he needed protection away down the road. I understood that the men would protect the property as long as they could, and when they were worn out and weary, they would send me word, and I would put out a police force to protect the city. This was several days after that. I did so. I sent them ten or twelve miles down the road. I had no authority to do it with the city police, but they agreed to pay, and have since paid, an improvised police force.
Q. The railroad men, although they were on a strike, did they show any disposition to be riotous or lawless, and destroy property?
A. Not at all, sir. They told me at this Sunday meeting, that they would do all they could to protect the property until the matters were settled in regard to wages, or something, with the company.
Q. Did you have any information, or make any arrests of them--interfere with them?
A. No, sir. They said some of the trains were going through which were stopped. I didn't make any arrest before. I cautioned them prudence and carefulness, and the danger and the risk they were running. The men pledged me what they would do to protect the property, and they did it manfully. One night they came up and said they were worn out, and I had the promise of a hundred men to come down from off the hill, and the men didn't come, and one of the messengers came from the railroad men, and I told him I was very sorry, I had been promised one hundred men, and they didn't come, and I would have to ask them to go back again that night, and they did it, though worn out, with a positive assurance from me that I would see that they were relieved the next day.
Q. Those were railroad men?
A. Those were railroad men.
Q. Ammon applied to you for assistance?
A. I never saw Ammon, but that one day.
Q. Never applied to you for assistance at all?
A. No, sir; I don't believe he did.
* * * * *
W. D. Ross, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Allegheny City.
Q. What was your occupation in July last?
A. I was chief of police.
Q. Of Allegheny City?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present during the conversation between Mayor Phillips and Robert Ammon, or Boss Ammon, or Bob Ammon, or whatever his name is?
A. I was present a part of the time. I was not there all of the time.
Q. Be kind enough to state what your recollection of the occurrence is?
A. Well, I was on the scene of action down there before Mayor Phillips came--had been called down. I think I was in Pittsburgh when the word came to the office that they wanted some men down to help disperse this riot--preventing cars from going out, and, I think, took fourteen or fifteen men down, and found a large crowd. I suppose there was two hundred or two hundred and fifty persons there, with an apparent determination to prevent the cars from going out, and showing the disposition manifested by them. They were armed with links and coupling pins, and a great many of them had clinkers. I saw that they were determined to make resistance, and I talked to Mr. Ross, the dispatcher, and told him to send down a car, and see if they could get through. I told Ammon we had come there for the purpose of stopping any violence that might be offered to the railroad employés, and we were informed that a crowd was there to offer resistance, from this side of the river--from Pittsburgh. His answer was, "Not a God damn bit of it." He says, "We are all employés of the Fort Wayne road. We have been discharged from the employment, and there are no Pittsburghers here, and we don't intend to let one pound of freight go out of this yard until our terms were complied with." And when I told him it was a pretty high-handed measure, or something like that, to take possession of the railroad and its property, and they would get into trouble, "Well," he said, "we might just as well die here as be starved to death," and he told me that they had this thing organized all over the country. It was not confined to Pittsburgh. It was North, South, East and West, and he had been in possession of the facts; and, says he, "I could stop it as quick as that," snapping his fingers, "by telegraphic dispatch that our terms are complied with." I had instructed a dispatch man to send down a locomotive and cars, and see if they could pass us, and when the cars came down Ammon stopped it, says, "Now is our time to strike," and he stepped up in front. The whole crowd rushed with him. They stopped the cars and mounted the locomotive, about two or three with him, and ordered them to return to the yard. They had no business coming out, and they reversed their engine and went back, and I saw there was no use in attempting to make an arrest. There was ten to one against us, and as determined to not be arrested as we would be to arrest them. When the cars ran back, I says, "Now, Ammon, you have taken possession of the road by violence, and we don't want to offer any resistance. The question will be determined by law whether you are going to hold it, or whether the railroad company is entitled to it." I thought the best way was to act with persuasion, and, says I, "You will be held responsible. If you have any right to do this, it will be a matter to be determined by law. We don't want to see any violence offered." I told Ross that I did not think it was worth our while to attempt to arrest them.
Q. Told whom?
A. Ross, the dispatcher in the yard. While we were talking about it, Mayor Phillips came down, and I went over to talk to the mayor. I left Ammon, and I think I remarked to the mayor that we were not able to do anything, and then Ammon came up and began to talk with him. The mayor told him he had need to look out, he would get into trouble. Something of that kind, that was the remark I heard. The mayor talked to him, that it was a high-handed measure, or something of that kind--I could not say positively what--something to that effect. I heard Ammon say he could not help it. He had told the mayor about the same as he told me, that he was in possession of the knowledge of the whole fact--how it was got up. He went to talk to him and I left them, and I left them while Ammon was relating his connection with the matter.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear the mayor tell Ammon that he should have charge of the lower part of the city of Allegheny?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear him tell him to resist any person that should attempt to arrest him?
A. No.
Q. Did not hear a conversation of that kind?
A. No; I talked to Ammon, and told him that he would be arrested; said I, "It is only a matter of time."
Q. You told Ammon he would be arrested?
A. I told him that he would be arrested. That it was only a matter of time. We didn't want any property destroyed, if we could prevent it.
Q. What was Ammon's reply to you when you told him he would be arrested?
A. He said he would die before he would be arrested--that was his determination, he said. It was a matter of life and death with the men, and they were willing to stand out--have their terms complied with before they would surrender.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you or any one else attempt to arrest him at any time during the riot?
A. No; I don't think we did do anything of the kind. I was down several times and saw them still in force there, but my object was more by persuasion to keep them from committing any overt acts of violence, further than to stop trains. I did not want to see any property destroyed or any lives lost, and I knew that the best policy was to counsel peace and keep from getting into a fight with so small a force as we had. There were more than twenty, I suppose, to one of us, and then, besides that, they had the sympathy of a number of the men that were with us--probably of our police officers. It was with a good deal of difficulty that they would even consent to go down. I had to threaten to put them off the force, but I concluded we had better counsel peace, and keep from getting into trouble with them by arresting them.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear any of the citizens have any conversation with the men when you were there, counseling them to hold it?
A. I did hear one of the citizens.
Q. Just state to this committee what that citizen said to Mr. Ammon?
A. That was a man by the name of Hahn. He made a remark of this kind; says he: "The railroad men are right." That was in Ammon's presence. I don't know whether he directed his remarks to Ammon or to me. Says he, "The railroad operators are right, and I will give as much as I can afford to sustain them and help them hold out."
Q. What did you say that man's name was?
A. His name is Hahn. He is a grocer.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say he has a grocery store?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where?
A. Down in the Sixth ward of Allegheny City. That was the only remark that I heard.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know of any understanding between the railroad officials and this man Ammon, that he should run that railroad in their interest?
A. No, sir; I was down there--I won't be too certain what morning it was. They had taken possession of the telegraph office.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The strikers had?
A. The strikers had, and there appeared to be an arrangement to operate. The company wanted to put one operator in, and Mr. Ross was negotiating with a party--wanted to put in an operator to act in concert with the others, that all telegraphic dispatches that should come over the line might be under the supervision of the two, and the company would select one and they the other. That what business was done, running what little freight was allowed to come through the telegraph wires, would not be obstructed. And Ammon made that proposition. He got up on a barrel or bench of some kind at the telegraph office, and to the crowd he stated what proposition was made to them, that the railroad company wanted to put another man to operate along with others.
Q. In concert with the other operator?
A. Yes; and says he, "This is the proposition. Now we have got the matter in charge ourselves, and I think we are able to run it. We don't need the assistance of the railroad company." Says he, "It is for the men here to say whether they will accede to this proposition or not. For my part, I think we can control it ourselves, and if the strikers are in favor of accepting the proposition they would signify it by saying aye." They took a vote, and there was nobody said aye, and they took the negative, and they all cried no. He appeared to have control of the thing, and was running it, and all he had to do was to suggest or intimate what was desired, and they were ready to vote it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Ammon and his party--did he accept the proposition from the railroad officials that they should have an operator?
A. No, sir; they would not accept it. They had the matter in charge, he said, and they would not accept it. They voted it down.
Q. Did Ammon say to this crowd, which he appeared to be a leader of--boss of--anything about the railroad officials asking him to run that road, take charge of it, and turn over the earnings of the railroad--railroad officials?
A. No; not that I heard of.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You speak of a proposition made by the railroad officials. Who made this proposition?
A. Well, it was Mr. Ross. That was their wanting to send some dispatches along on the road. Mr. Ross was dispatcher of the road, and they had taken possession of the railroad and telegraph office belonging to the road, and, as I understood it, put a telegraph operator of their own in there.
Q. Did he make this proposition of his own accord, or by the authority of the officials of the railroad company?
A. I could not say. I just said what Ammon said. Ammon mounted a bench, and he said the railroad company had made this proposition. Now, says he, "We have got charge of the concern, and we are capable of running it."
Q. Did you hear Mr. Ross make any proposition at all?
A. No, sir; It was Ammon's own statement.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did Ross have any conversation with you as chief of police in regard the situation of things there?
A. Yes, sir. He wanted me to do all I could to keep matters quiet--keep them from committing any overt acts of violence, if I could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was there any disposition on the part of these men expressed to destroy property?
A. Well, I could not say that there was after I talked to them. The mayor had talked to them, &c. We counseled peace, and Ammon said, says he, "All that I am afraid of--we are going to hold the property. We will take care of it, we will protect it." I told him he was responsible for it. If he let it be destroyed the responsibility would rest upon him. I wanted to reason with him, as I seen he had control of the affairs.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Wanted him to realize the situation?
A. Realize the situation they were in, and make a more weighty responsibility on them, for having taken it by force, if they would let it be destroyed. I told him so. Says he, "All I am afraid of is, when the hands stop work, they will hang around these damned doggeries and get drunk, and come in here and create a disturbance, and lead the thing into trouble." Says he, "If we just stopped them, I would not be a bit afraid of any property being burned." I told them they had just as good a right to stop doggeries as they had to stop a railroad, the rule would work both ways. If you could take possession of one class of property, why not take possession of the other. I talked with them, and I concluded I would go around and notify the saloons to stop myself. I saw it was the best we could do under the circumstances, and we did notify them, and they obeyed and stopped until the next Monday or Tuesday afterwards. I used a little strategy with them. I told them the mayor had instructed me to stop them, and under the law if they did anything to aid, abet, or encourage riot, they were responsible; that the sale of liquor might have that tendency, and they appeared to be cautious, and shut up their places.
Q. They shut up because you told them the mayor had ordered them; it was not this Boss Ammon?
A. No, sir; it was not Boss Ammon, it was Mayor Phillips and me had talked about that, and thought best to keep down riot in every form we could, under the excited state of affairs.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Ammon and his men who were acting in concert with them, make any effort to compel saloons from selling whisky?
A. No, sir; I don't think he did anything at all in the matter.
Q. You say that Mr. Ammon remarked, that he could stop all this rioting and strike by a single dispatch, if their terms were complied with. Did he say what those terms were?
A. He was going on to state the terms at the time Mayor Phillips came down, and the mayor arriving there he hadn't got through with his statement. So far as his statement to me was concerned it was, that the men that had been discharged would all be returned to their positions again, and re-instated at the old wages, that double-headers should be taken off--he was going on making a statement of this kind when Mayor Phillips arrived and interrupted him. I don't know what all he would have stated. It was a part of it, that the men should all be re-instated that had been discharged, at their former wages, with an assurance that they would remain, and double-headers taken off the road.
Q. Did your force act in concert with the strikers in protecting the property of the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. We acted under the advice of Mayor Phillips, and we acted in concert, as a matter of course, in protecting property. We sent down men to watch the property and to keep it from being stolen.
Q. You assisted the railroad strikers, or they did so, in protecting the property?
A. They appeared to exercise a guard over it for one or two nights. I guess we had taken charge of the freight trains and set a watch over them, and then, when they gave them up we took charge of them. We sent police down, thirty or forty police, along the road where they had run them out to watch the property, and to keep it from being stolen and carried away.
Q. Was it a general understanding between your police force and these railroad men that you would assist each other in stopping any violence or destruction of property?
A. After they had----
Q. Taken possession of it?
A. Yes; there was an understanding, so far as I understood the situation of the case, the property had to be protected, and they were not able to protect it themselves, and they could not stand it, and when they were not able we protected it, and we had policemen down there by direction of the railroad company, to watch the property also. Under the circumstances we were placed in, we were disposed to do the best we could.
Q. Regardless of who it was that helped to protect the property?
A. Yes; that was the way I understand it.
Q. Coöperate with anybody that was peaceably inclined to assist you?
A. Exactly; and let the consequences follow.
At this point the sub-committee adjourned, until three o'clock, this afternoon.
PITTSBURGH, April 6, 1878.
The sub-committee met at three o'clock, at the orphan's court room, pursuant to adjournment. Mr. Reyburn in the chair. Present, Messrs. Reyburn, Torbert, Yutzy, and Englebert.
* * * * *
John I. Nevin, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where is your residence and what is your occupation?
A. My residence is Sewickley, and editor of the Leader.
Q. Were you editor of the Leader at the time of the railroad strike in July last?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you editor from the 19th to the 24th July?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Be kind enough to look at these papers during that time, and see if they are your----
A. If I was editor.
Q. Take from the 19th of July on, and take the editorials--whether they were your articles?
Witness identifies editorial headed "Talk of the Desperate," July 20; also, editorial headed "No Violence." July 21; also, editorial headed "Fatal Rashness," July 22; also, editorial headed "Law and Order," second edition, July 23.
The editorials are as follows:
[Leader, July 20.]
THE TALK OF THE DESPERATE.
"This may be the beginning of a great civil war in this country, between labor and capital, that is bound to come. It only needs that the strikers at Martinsburg, or here, or elsewhere, should boldly attack and rout the troops sent to quell them--and they could easily do it if they tried--to set the spark to the magazine, and the explosion would follow at once. The workingmen everywhere, and of all classes of trade, are in the fullest sympathy with the strikers, and only waiting to see whether they are in earnest enough to fight for their rights. They would all join and help them, the moment an actual conflict took place. Against such an uprising, what would capital have to oppose? The militia? Why, have not we seen how the militia at Martinsburg fraternized with the mob; how at Wheeling only thirty men responded to the Governor's call to arms; how Mr. Garrett, in his appeal to the President, acknowledges that the militia is in such full sympathy with the strikers that they were of no use at all? And do not we see, to-day, in the ridiculous response to the calls upon the Grays to turn out--a corporal's guard--that the militia is of no more use here? The Governor, with his proclamations, may call and call, but the laboring people, who mostly constitute the militia, will not take up arms to put down their brethren. Will capital, then, rely on the United States army? Pshaw! These ten or fifteen thousand men, available men, would be swept from our path like leaves in the whirlwind. The workingmen of this country can capture and hold it, if they will only stick together, and it looks as if they were going to, this time, sure."
"Of course, as you say, the capitalists.... Many of the unemployed would be glad to get work as soldiers or extra policemen. The farmers, too, might turn out to preserve your 'law and order.' But the working army would have the most men and the best men. The war might be bloody, but right would prevail. Men like Tom Scott, Frank Thomson, yes, and William Thaw, who have got rich out of the stock-holders of railroads, so they cannot pay honest labor living rates, we would hang to the nearest tree. Honest incorporate management would be enforced, and labor would demand and receive its fair share of the profits that are made by means of it."
"But even if the workingmen should fail--even if so-called law and order should beat them down in blood--why, that would be better than starving. We would, at least, have our revenge on the men who have coined our sweat and muscles into millions for themselves, while they think that dip is good enough butter for us, and do not care whether our families get a living or not. We would inflict more loss on them than the last ten per cent. reduction would net them gain in ten years, and if we died in this cause, we would only end lives of degradation and misery. Civilization! You say we should endanger civilization, if we succeeded in enforcing our demands by violence! Well, what has civilization done for us? Better the times of the Conestoga wagon, when everybody lived fat, than these railroad times, when labor goes around begging. Better than both, perhaps, the time when every man had his own farm, or lived by his brow; they had enough to eat then, and did not have to work so hard as we do now. What care we for civilization that is grinding us down, down, down to starvation and nakedness by one ten per cent. reduction after another, and one doubling up of crews after another, until the workingman shall be the white slave of his employer, and work for his board, if he gets even that."
It is well that the community should know something of the ideas that are circulating among the strikers and their friends at this time; the hates, and hopes, and aspirations, and half formed plans that animate the more impassioned leaders of them, and therefore we give the above, which is a faithful re-production of what a representative workingman said on the subject this morning. It will be seen, that he is really a communist, and there is no doubt that communistic ideas have widely spread, even among the most respectable, and most thoughtful classes of American workingmen. There is no gainsaying either, that the picture this man draws of the hardship which the present business depression has subjected labor to in many cases is not exaggerated, and it is true, that the sympathy of nearly the entire community, is with the railroad strikers in the present case, who are called to endure still another turn of the screw, which is cutting down their wages to the danger limit. Nor is it wonderful, that these men, contrasting their hard lives with the luxury and extravagance with which certain railroad men live, and the brutal disregard to their sufferings, which one of them is alleged to have shown, should be goaded to revengeful and bitter thoughts, and even desperate talk.
But when all these allowances are made, it still remains to be said, that threats of violence, of war, of communism, are worse than folly on the part of strikers or the workingmen general. Of one thing there is no doubt, and that is, that resort to violence will not accomplish its object. Widely spread as is the sympathy with the strikers, it is a fallacy to suppose that lawful force will not be found to put down unlawful force. There never yet was a case in this country, where mob violence triumphed in the end, however apparently righteous the cause in which it was invoked, and there never will be such a case, until the American people loses its strong instinct for the preservation, at all hazards, of the established law and order. The people will turn out and enforce the law, so soon as they really think that the law is in serious danger, and there will be no war, nor even a serious insurrection, but all will yield to the majesty of established authority. And then the violent will see that they have accomplished nothing, and that their vengeance has mainly re-acted upon themselves. It will be a long time, before, in this free country, the communists can achieve even such a temporary success, put down speedily as it was, in fire and blood, as the Paris communes of 1871.
We are glad, therefore, to see that these enthusiastic, extravagant, and bitter ideas are being met in the counsels of the workingmen themselves, with solid arguments for moderation, and the use of pacific means only. If the employés of the Pennsylvania railroad can prove, by simply abstaining from work, that the railroad cut down their wages too low, and cannot properly fill their places with other men, everybody will be very glad. If that would show that labor is worth more than was supposed, and the price of labor is the measure of the prosperity of the whole community. But if they attempt to force the railroad to accede to their demands, and prevent any person else from working, they will only make their friends everywhere sorry for them, and insure for themselves a certainty of discharge from their positions in the end.
[Leader, July 21.]
NO VIOLENCE.
One point that the inbred lawlessness of southern blood had something to do with the greater recklessness of the strikers on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, as compared with the conduct of the men in similar circumstances on northern roads, was dreadfully illustrated at Baltimore, yesterday. No sooner was the militia called out to go to Cumberland, than the street crowds assaulted them with stones; and no sooner were they thus assaulted than the militia opened fire with ball cartridge right into the midst of people, dealing destruction around. Contrast now the conduct of both parties here, where an equally determined strike is in progress. The strikers carefully protect the property of the different railroads that center here. In stopping the trains they merely "entreat" the engineers to step down and out, though of course the entreaty is equivalent to command. Everything is done decently and in order, and rumors about the burning of the round-house are baseless and apparently malevolent. All violence is discountenanced; even the communistic speeches of certain hot-heads, who have gone out to incite the men, have been coolly received, and the imputation that they are a mob in act of riot is indignantly denied. Towards the militia, the strikers preserve a dignified and manly attitude. They know that the soldiers had to turn out when ordered, and they entertain no hard feelings to any of them, except, possibly, toward one or two of the officers, whom they believe to have been officious about trying to get the Governor to order out their division. They mingle with the soldiers in perfect good humor, though without abating a jot of their determination. And this is not only the feeling among the strikers, but among all the people whom, though they almost universally sympathize with the strikers, admit that the soldier boys are but doing their duty, and never dream of making that unpleasant duty more difficult by assaulting them with stones. On the other hand, the soldiers are equally determined to get through this matter without shedding blood, if possible. They recognize in the strikers men whom, if they do take an attitude in opposition to authority, are, nevertheless, hard-working, honest, and well-meaning citizens, who only resort to their present procedure from what they conceive a desperate necessity. They are men who are anxious to work for a living, but see, as they have, that living taken away from them, and who are making a desperate effort to prevent the reduction, which they believe will make paupers of them. There is no doubt at all that the soldiers will endure insult, and even stone-throwing, before they will shed blood.
But we do not believe that either insult or violence will be offered them. The strikers will confine themselves to the exclusive and more effectual plan of a passive and what may be called distributive resistance. If a large body of troops are stationed here, trains will be allowed to go out, but will be stopped at some other point, at Altoona, or Philadelphia, or Harrisburg, where the soldiers are not. In this way they can and probably will carry on a warfare that will break no bones and shed no blood, but will yet be very difficult to subdue.
We are proud of both our workingmen and our soldiers that have thus far got along with no bloodshed, and with no casualty except one black eye and one swollen nose. We hope profoundly that the whole matter will be settled, one way or the other, without any more violence, and it will and can be, too, if our law-abiding people will sustain the reputation they have thus far merited.
[Leader, July 22.]
A FATAL RASHNESS.
A Philadelphia regiment which came here in the name of law and order has been swift to shed blood. Not two hours in our city, and before a hostile shot was fired at them, they have stained our hill-sides with the blood of ten or twelve men and children. Most of them were spectators, drawn by an unfortunate and innocent curiosity to their deaths. The wailing of women and children, the deep cursing of outraged men, and the outspoken indignation of an entire community, swell the chorus of condemnation against the officer or officers of the First regiment of Pennsylvania militia, who assumed the fearful responsibility of that hasty command to fire. We desire not to be unjust to the strangers. The strong current of public feeling should not prevent us from upholding them in their terrible deed, if the facts sustain them. Even now we will say that their side of the story may, perhaps, somewhat modify public opinion, when it is known. As appears elsewhere, the Leader tried to obtain their version of the affair officially, but in vain. Those officers who were seen going along the line striking up the rifles of their troops with their swords and otherwise endeavored to stop the effusion of blood, deserve as much credit as that officer who was seen waving his sword and encouraging the men to keep on with the butchery deserves censure.
But making all possible allowance for the Philadelphians, it does still appear that they acted rashly, importunately, deplorably. The crowd hissed them, but that was no reason for shooting. They hooted and jeered them, but all crowds do that, and true soldiers are not disquieted by such demonstrations. Men on the crossing caught hold of their bayonets, and half jocosely expostulated with the soldiers. That was reason for clearing a passage with a quiet forward movement with the bayonet, which would have been effective without hurting anybody. It was still no reason for firing--the hurling of a few stones from the hillside, which seems to have been the provocation that caused the massacre--but neither was that for men who came here to enforce order, it is true, but should have made up to endure much before shedding the blood of honest workingmen, who, even, if wrong were only misguided and had thus far conducted themselves with wonderful calmness and respect for order--neither was sufficient reason for beginning a fire of musketry upon the people, and change, what was before but a peaceful though earnest conflict between the railroad men and their employers, into a scene of battle, murder, and sudden death.
The railroad officials do not seem to be responsible for the massacre. They appear to have evoked a power that they could not control, and so dazed and shocked at the consequences. Mr. Pitcairn's expression, "God only knows what will come of it," well shows this. Mr. Thaw, early in the day, expresses himself as willing and anxious that anything, everything, should be yielded up to the men rather than that blood should be shed. But it was too late. The collision was then inevitable, and it came.
What the end will be cannot now be known. At this writing the air is filled with rumors of fire and war. The troops of the State are concentrating here from all sides to the support of the Philadelphians, now cooped up, apparently terror-stricken, in the fire-threatened railroad round-house, and surrounded by an ever-increasing mass of armed citizens. It is possible that further bloodshed may be averted. The very free vent given to the excitement to-night, in arming and marching about with banners and guns may explain it, and give time for sober second thought to assert itself. The reasonable speeches at the Southside meeting, show that the best spirits among our workingmen are laboring to prevent riot and disorder. Time works for peace. But it is useless to disguise that the situation is very grave and growing graver, and that the men who were swift to shed blood will have the heaviest responsibility to answer for.
[Leader, July 23.]
LAW AND ORDER.
The citizens of Pittsburgh are rising to-day to defend themselves from the threatened revolt against law and property. This is a ringing answer to the tones that already come from other cities, that Pittsburgh is honored in the manhood and public spirit to put down mob law. The people are responding to the mayor's call by thousands. Let not enlistments slacken, however. Now is the time to display such a force that resistance will be seen to be in vain, and effusion of blood prevented. We are proud to say that the Nineteenth and Fourteenth regiments of militia are redeeming themselves from the fault that they committed on Saturday, and are now mustering strength and will. By night this issuing would be and will be decided, and we hope by Harrisburg and Allegheny efforts alone.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who was your reporter that reported the occurrences of the riot during Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday?
A. Well, we have a corps of about five or six regular men, and during these three or four days, we employed a great many others. We gave page after page of matter about, and it would not have been possible for one or two or three or four to get it up. I can give you the names of a number of them. The man whom we had stationed close to the round-house during Saturday night, was named Mr. George Vickers. He is now, I think, on the Philadelphia Times. Mr. John Haslet and Mr. William Clark, and a number of others. Mr. Henry Myer was assisting us some.
Q. Had you more than one edition on that Sunday of the riot?
A. Yes. Had three editions.
Q. They are all on file, are they?
A. Think they are, ain't they?
Q. Will you please examine this article, and say whether you are author of it. [Indicating article of July 20, headed "Let them Go."]
A. Yes, sir.
The article referred to is as follows:
[Leader, July 22.]
LET THEM GO.
To the workingmen of Pittsburgh: In the name of the whole people of Pittsburgh we make an appeal for peace. There has been bloodshed enough--far more than enough. The workingmen have triumphed over the soldiers who rashly opened fire upon them, and there is now nothing more to fight for. Now is the time to show they deserve victory by proving themselves good citizens, refusing to prolong a slaughter that is a mere useless butchery. The Philadelphia militia, however rash, however boastful, are yet men who thought they were obeying the call of duty. There were undoubtedly roughs among their number, who gave an evil character to the regiment; but there are many good men among them, who simply obeyed orders; even when they fired their pieces they obeyed orders. Now that their point has been gained, we beseech our people not to sully their victory with the further shooting down of these men, who only seek to escape. To continue to hunt them down in their retreat on the north side, whither it is said they have gone, is to stain the green fields of our suburbs this bright Sunday morning with useless effusion of blood. To do this would only be to cause a revulsion of feeling, and the sympathy which to this point has been altogether with the strikers and their friends, and we confidentially appeal to them, that having gained everything they fought for, they now exert themselves as nobly to prevent excited outsiders from taking advantage of their triumph to shoot men, when they only want to get away.
Since writing the above it appears that the bulk of Philadelphia have got away from Sharpsburg, and are scattered in clouds through the hills. It is believed that they will now escape in safety, though it is possible that some of them may be yet followed up and shot down. It is a matter of thankfulness that they have escaped, the victory is complete, and that a great final massacre has been avoided. Let us now decently and solemnly mourn our dead, and mourn in calmness and order.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Have you any knowledge of the causes leading to this strike?
A. I have no special knowledge, no, sir, except what common rumor, and what was published about the matter. It originated out of the organization of the Trainmen's Union, precipitated in Maryland, and the particular special cause here, as I understood it, was the double-header grievance on the Pennsylvania railroad.
Q. Have you any knowledge as to the necessity of calling the military to this place?
A. You mean Philadelphia military?
Q. Yes; I mean the military. I will say in explanation that in our resolution we are required to inquire into the necessity of calling out, and the conduct of the troops; and as a public man you would be apt to know, and able to give an expression of opinion that would be of value?
A. I could only give my judgment about it, I suppose, not being in the service.
Q. That judgment could be expressed as a citizen, and would be formed from facts, I suppose, coming to your knowledge?
A. It seemed to me at the time that the military need not have been called so soon. I was under the impression at the time, strongly, that the mayor, with policemen, might have quieted the trouble--and, perhaps, would have done so if the military had not been brought so promptly on the scene--and it seemed to me, also, that bringing Philadelphia troops from a city that Pittsburgh has always felt a kind of rivalry toward, was calculated, perhaps, to inflame feeling here rather than to allay it. I remember there were rumors that Saturday evening--whether authenticated or not, I do not know--that the Philadelphia men had said that Pittsburgh troops had failed here, and they would clean out the rioters. I don't know whether they said it or not; but if they did not say it, it shows just as well the feeling of jealousy with which their presence was regarded, and they asserted that feeling during that whole Saturday night, that in attacking those Philadelphia troops they were cleaning out Philadelphia men. They had come here to interfere in what might have been settled by local authorities, and from that point of view it seemed to me injudicious.
Q. Do you believe that the local authorities could have preserved order, and finally quieted the strike, without any loss of property?
A. I believe that they could have preserved order until the Governor would return, and I think that his presence would have prevented any outbreak. The fact that the Governor's proclamation calling out troops was gravely doubted here--everybody knew he was out of the State a long distance--had, perhaps, a good deal to do with the disorderly feeling. I do not believe that the local authorities could have eventually put down the riot; but I think they could have preserved order here, and kept things in tolerable order until the Governor himself had arrived here. I think if Governor Hartranft had been here on that evening, the collision could have been avoided.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I see, in this editorial you speak of, the "sympathy being with the strikers and their friends?"
A. There is no doubt that the sympathy of the people here was strongly with the strikers, before any act of violence was committed.
Q. Before the burning of the property?
A. Yes, sir; and the idea spread, after the collision had taken place, that it was all owing to reckless firing, without orders, which kept the sympathy with the strikers until the actual destruction of property commenced.
Q. In your opinion, was the sympathy of the citizens, and people generally here in the city, with the strikers when they made the assault on the troops in the round-house and driving them out of the city?
A. No, sir; I don't think that. I think the mass of our citizens then were not expressing sympathy with anybody--just paralyzed.
Q. Here is one expression: "The workingmen have triumphed over the soldiers, who rashly opened fire upon them, and there is now nothing more to fight for." Did the people, in your opinion, justify these men, called workingmen, in driving out the troops and triumphing over them?
A. I don't think they did. No, sir; that is not the spirit of that article, either, which is an appeal for the cessation of any further hostilities. At that time, of course, it was said that it was the workingmen entirely that was fighting--the railroad men--and they were in sympathy with them, the railroad strikers and their friends.
Q. There is another sentence: "Now is the time to show they deserve victory, by proving themselves good citizens, and refusing to prolong a slaughter that is mere useless butchery."
A. That is to show that they had deserved the victory they had got, by not using it any further.
Q. The expression is not used to justify them so much as to allay further bloodshed?
A. Yes; that is the whole spirit of it. When that article was written, it was supposed that General Brinton's troops were fleeing out into the country. A large mob was pursuing them, shooting them down in every direction, and nobody knew where the pursuit had stopped, perhaps not until they were all exterminated. We could not get at their side of the story, but it was supposed that they were even more demoralized than perhaps they were. That article was written for the express purpose of trying to stop pursuit, to try to allay the excitement.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You had no intention of contributing any to the excitement by any inflammatory article?
A. If I had I certainly would not have asked leave to let them go.
Q. Did you have any reporter with the troops as they retired from the round-house and went out Penn street?
A. We had no reporter at any time with the troops. You could not get any man to them. We had a reporter right in sight of the round-house. He saw the retreat, and followed out some distance towards Lawrenceville--towards the arsenal. That was Mr. George Vickers, the man I spoke of before. I, myself, was out there early in the morning, to look at the situation at the round-house. There was still some firing then.
Q. Did you indicate all the editorials you wrote during the riot on that subject in these papers?
A. I think I have indicated them all.
* * * * *
James W. Breen, sworn:
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You have no regular file of your Globe?
A. No, sir; not bound. I gave the sergeant-at-arms two copies.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Journalist.
Q. You reside in Pittsburgh?
A. Yes, sir. Thirteenth ward.
Q. Did you reside in Pittsburgh at the time of the riots, in July last?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that a copy of your paper for that date? [Indicating.]
A. That is a copy of the extra. The regular edition--I couldn't get a copy for the file. It ran out early in the day. That has all that pertains to the riot in it.
Q. Is this article written by you? [Indicating extra, July 22, article headed "First Blood."]
A. You mean the entire article?
Q. More particularly that following the heading?
A. My impression is that it was; but it was made up in detail at different times and by different parties.
Q. Would you call that an editorial?
A. It is a local introduction. The only editorial that was in the paper during the riot is in that issue of the paper for the following Sunday, July 29--that is the only editorial that was in the paper.
Q. These head lines are also yours?
A. Yes; I make the head lines.
The article referred to is as follows:
[Sunday Globe Extra, July 22.]
FIRST BLOOD.
SEVENTEEN CITIZENS SHOT IN COLD BLOOD BY THE ROUGHS OF PHILADELPHIA.
THE LEXINGTON OF THE LABOR CONFLICT AT HAND.
THE CITY IN THE HANDS OF THE STRIKERS.
ARMED BANDS PATROLLING THE STREETS.
THE CIVIL AND MILITARY AUTHORITIES POWERLESS.
BITTER DENUNCIATIONS OF SHERIFF FIFE, GENERAL PEARSON, AND THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD AUTHORITIES.
THREATS THAT THE PHILADELPHIA SOLDIERS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO HOME ALIVE.
THE FOURTEENTH AND NINETEENTH REGIMENTS DISBANDED AND REFUSE TO FIGHT, AND MANY GIVE THEIR ARMS TO THE STRIKERS.
THE PHILADELPHIA TROOPS PENNED IN THE ROUND-HOUSE AND SURROUNDED BY 20,000 STRIKERS.
THE SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS.
MILES OF BLAZING CARS.
THE STRIKERS HOLD THE FORT AND THE FREIGHT.
[Cut of man brandishing a bowie knife.]
Now that the strikers' contest has reached its crisis, and the military and civil are powerless to preserve order, and the blood of innocent men and children, shot down by Philadelphia roughs, cries aloud for atonement, it may not be amiss to place the responsibility for this awful condition of things where it belongs. The strikers have manifested, all along, an unwonted forbearance. There was no overt act of violence. The civil process had not been legally exhausted or properly invoked, and Sheriff Fife's misstatements and lying bulletins, and General Pearson's indiscreet bravado, only added fuel to what was already an overmastering flame. In a city where nearly every man is a worker, and where the mercantile community was bitterly hostile to an odious corporation, which had ground its life blood out by discrimination, the folly of bringing a few thousand Philadelphia troops to overawe the one hundred thousand workingmen of the city ought to have been apparent to the dullest observer. The little junta of railroad officials who wrote out the Governor's proclamation at the Union Depot hotel, and their indiscreet buncombe in disregarding Mr. Thaw's advice and cultivating an unnecessary issue with the strikers, and the culminating bloody blunder, which sent thirteen innocent victims to their graves, all show how such martinets as Cassatt, Scott, Gardiner, &c., fail to comprehend the situation. With bands of five and ten thousand men patrolling the streets, the rumors and gun-works sacked, the booming of cannon, and the sharp crack of the strikers' muskets in front of the city hall, the threats of vengeance against the military and the railroad authorities, and the murder of the innocents, all this is directly attributable to the blunder of the sheriff and the indiscreet bluster of the military and railroad authorities, who imagined, because they had a few troops at their back, that they could defy the lightning. The feeling against the Philadelphia soldiery, which seemed to have acted with unseemly precipitancy, was very bitter, and threats were made that they will not be allowed to go home alive. Every law-abiding citizen must deplore extremes, but in a contest like the present, so long as labor, without violence, merely asserted its right to live, it was entitled to the sympathy of every worker in the hive of human industry, and the cowardice and imbecility of the railroad sharks, who sought to overawe all this community by imported bummers, met its proper rebuke. Contrast, in all this crisis, between the mock heroics of the Pennsylvania railroad squad, with its plotting and counter-plotting, and the clear-headed attitude of the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, who wisely remained passive until the storm spent itself, shows the difference between the statesmanship of Garrett and the poppy-cock of Scott. As the case stands, every one of the military should be arrested and tried for murder, and their abettors taught a lesson not likely to be soon forgotten.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What reason had you for saying that "seventeen citizens shot in cold blood by the roughs of Philadelphia?"
A. From the information that they fired on the populace without orders, and without justification, so far as the information went at that time--it was received to that effect--that they had not fired on the mob, who were in front of them obstructing the track, but fired on the unarmed populace on the hill side.
Q. What do you mean by Philadelphia roughs?
A. That was the expression used, that parties fired on the people without orders, and acting as roughs--firing recklessly, and without orders, and on people who were not firing on them.
Q. Did your information at that time lead you to suppose that there had been no attack made by the mob?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you depend upon your reporters for the information upon which you wrote?
A. Yes; largely. To some extent on such information as we could get outside.
Q. Were you on the ground where the firing took place, on Twenty-eight street, at the time?
A. No, sir; at no time on the ground. I had a reporter sent to Torrens station early in the evening. The idea at that time was that that would be the vital point; there was where the trouble was going to be. Colonel Guthrie was there with the Grays, and it was supposed to be the real point. It turned out afterwards that the trouble was down at the round-house. I got my information from sundry sources.
Q. Had you a reporter there?
A. No, sir; I had no reporter, but I had parties who were out there and gave me information that was supposed to be intelligent. At the time, they thought that the trouble would be at Torrens station, and I sent parties there, and there was no trouble there. There was no news from that point. The reporter was detained there until very late in the night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This heading here of threats that the Philadelphia soldiers will not be allowed to go home alive--where did you get that information from--that there was such threats?
A. Those threats were made very freely on the street.
Q. You heard them yourself?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know any of the parties that made those threats?
A. Oh, yes. I couldn't say. I must have met a thousand people. The streets were blocked with people. I couldn't name anybody specifically.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You say you met a thousand people making threats?
A. No; I say I must have met a thousand people on the street--not a thousand making threats.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Here is another expression: "The Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments disband, and refuse to fight, and many give their arms to the strikers." Was that the case?
A. That was the information at that time.
Q. Was it verified after further investigation?
A. I think it was pretty well ascertained afterwards that a portion of the military threw down their arms. I think that was developed afterwards.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In this article, you say that there was no overt act of violence. What do you mean by that?
A. There was no overt act of violence committed by the mob at the time it was written. I didn't consider that an overt act of violence to be standing on the railroad track--that refers to a physical effort.
Q. Do you mean, that the mob had a right to stand on the railroad track and take possession of the railroad track, and refuse to allow traffic?
A. No, sir; it was written from this standpoint: that the military, instead of removing the mob who were in front of them, and who were obstructing traffic, fired on the populace on the hill side who were unarmed and spectators, and were not parties to the conflict.
By Mr. Means:
Q. I suppose you mean that there were no demonstrations to destroy either life or property?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Had you gone to any trouble to ascertain the truth of the facts as they really occurred before the fire by the mob, before you wrote this article?
A. We sent reporters to the point where we supposed the trouble would be, and when we couldn't get reporters, I got other parties to go to the point, and got them to report the facts--used every proper effort to get at the truth of the matter. It was a hard matter to get reporters that night, it being Saturday night, and the daily reporters being all off and at home, it was very difficult to get them. I had to improvise by getting parties outside to give the news, the best way I could--outside of the regular reporters.
Q. When you wrote this article, you were fully of the opinion and believed that the mob had not shown any violence towards the troops?
A. Yes; that was my information at the time of writing that article.
Q. Did you get your information from one of these reporters?
A. No; the reporters didn't report until long after midnight. I got that information on the street. Some of the reporters sent out, found it difficult to get back at all in consequence of obstructions to travel--street cars stopped, and difficulty in getting in.
Q. You say here, the civil process had not been legally exhausted or properly invoked. "Sheriff Fife's misstatements and lying bulletins, and General Pearson's indiscreet bravado, only added to the fuel to what was already an overmastering flame." What do you mean by that--the civil process had not been exhausted?
A. I understood information was made before the mayor first, and that instead of the parties being arrested, that arrangements were being made for the arrest of the leaders of the riot peacefully and without bloodshed, and by that means the backbone of the outbreak would have been broken. Instead of that, the warrants were taken up to court, and bench-warrants were given, and then they attempted to arrest them by the aid of the military, and the military failed. So far as regards Fife, the information was at that time that he had not exhausted his process. Had not called a posse comitatus, and hadn't taken sufficient number to go out there and indite a proclamation such as he had indicted, or such as was written for him. My information was, that it was written by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company officials.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What information led you to believe that this proclamation had been written by the Pennsylvania railroad officials?
A. I heard it in a number of instances--I cannot exactly recall from whom--that the telegram had been written by somebody for the sheriff. It came in the usual course of news. I forget now from whom, and I think it was repeated in most of the papers at the time. The impression was that the sheriff had not exhausted his powers before calling on the military, and that the matter had been taken out of the hands of the mayor, and given into the hands of the military with undue precipitancy.
Q. Do you know that the mayor had been called upon to furnish a police force, for the protection of the railroad?
A. Yes; that was the information. I know that the police force was depleted to at least one third of its original force, and it was very difficult to get policemen to go in for a day, or a few hours, at the risk of being shot or killed for one day's pay. There was great reluctance on the part of policemen to go in on that plea.
Q. You say "the little junta of railroad officials, who wrote out the Governor's proclamation, at the Union Depot hotel." What reason had you for writing that? Had you any reason to suppose, or did you know that this proclamation had been written by the railroad officials?
A. I didn't see them write it; but the information was, at that time, that the proclamation was written in the Union depot. It turned out afterwards, it was written by the Governor's private secretary, Mr. Farr, I believe. That was not the information at that time. It was known, however, that it was not the Governor's proclamation, and it was the common opinion that it was written by Pennsylvania railroad officials.
Q. You mean common rumor?
A. Yes; in the excitement of the time, it was very difficult to get accurate information. Officials couldn't be found at their positions, and it was very difficult to get people to go--had to take it just as you could.
Q. Is it not characteristic of newspaper men to gather up all the information that they can, even if it is flying reports on the street, and give as near the truth of the matter as you can? Is that not characteristic of newspaper men?
A. Yes; so far as could be gathered.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You don't mean to say that newspaper men--an editor--will sit down and write an article on nothing but common street rumor, without taking proper steps to verify these facts, and see whether what they allege is true?
A. You cannot judicially prove everything before it goes in a newspaper, and the sources of information were stopped. It was impossible to see any railroad officials--most of them had left town.
Q. On Saturday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was not Mr. Cassatt and other railroad officials at the Union depot through Saturday afternoon and evening?
A. I think not, sir; if they were, they were penned up, and not get-at-able.
Q. Couldn't you get at General Latta, and wasn't he there?
A. I don't know whether he was there. You speak about street information when that information coincides and comes from many quarters and many sources, it was reasonably something to pass upon.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. That article was written before the burning took place, I suppose?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I believe you have identified this paper, and this editorial, entitled "Military Mob?" Did you write that?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Mr. Breen, in your opinion, was the sympathy of the citizens of Pittsburgh with the strikers, when they first struck and quit work?
A. Very strongly with the strikers, but not with the mob.
Q. I am speaking of the strikers--of the railroad employés?
A. Yes, sir; very emphatically; both on the part of the business community and the other portion.
Q. Do you know of any business men in the city of Pittsburgh that made any proposition to the strikers in the way of support, furnishing them provisions, or taking care of them while they were not employed on the road?
A. There was some talk of that kind at the time, that Mr. Jenkins and Mr. King had proposed to furnish something or other.
Q. I don't wish to be personal in this matter; I just wish to know of any parties that proposed to these strikers to give them support?
A. I know as in the case of this other knowledge, that it could not be judicially proved at that time as a fact, but it was common rumor and talk that certain gentlemen had proposed to give provisions to aid the strikers.
Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge?
A. No, sir.
Q. But it was common rumor that the citizens of Pittsburgh were in sympathy with the strikers?
A. With the strikers, yes, sir; I don't know that there was any doubt of that.
Q. You don't know, then, any particular man or Pittsburgh parties who offered aid and comfort?
A. No, sir; I heard parties' names mentioned, but as they afterwards disclaimed it, I suppose there was nothing in it.
Q. Have you any knowledge of the causes leading to the strike?
A. Double-headers, and the issue between the Trainmen's Union and the Pennsylvania railroad. That was the primary cause, as I understood it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. These parties that reported to you information from which this article was written, were they railroad men or were they citizens of Pittsburgh?
A. Citizens of Pittsburgh.
Q. From their reports then to you, you wrote this article?
A. Yes; from the aggregate reports this article was written.
Q. Were these business men, or were they laboring men, or what were they?
A. I couldn't exactly classify them. I think they represented all classes. I think the entire sympathy of the community, mercantile and otherwise, was with the strikers up to the time of news of violence.
Q. During the destruction of railroad property, was there any demonstration on the part of the citizens to subdue this riot, or did they begin to realize their situation after it came to the destruction of individual property?
A. I think they sympathized fully with the strikers up to the point of burning and pillaging, and after that began there was a re-action in public sentiment.
Q. Was that so far as the railroad company was concerned, or had they come down to private property?
A. I don't exactly understand your question.
Q. Just what I want to know is this: Did the citizens of Pittsburgh think that the strikers were doing right, as long as they were destroying railroad property?
A. Well, I don't think they thought that exactly, but they didn't make any attempt to stay the conflagration or the fire.
Q. As soon as it came down to individual property, then what?
A. Then, I think, even before there was an effort made to get up a citizen's committee, and I think it was a failure; and I think only four responded to go out and assist in that.
Q. When it came down to individual property, then what?
A. Then, of course, there were more active efforts made by the authorities, and by parties living in the neighborhood.
Q. Did they seem to be general or just local?
A. No, sir; it did not seem to be general.
Q. Just local?
A. Just local.
Q. And then, if a fire was in the Sixth ward, the people of the Sixth ward or the Eighth or the Tenth or the Twentieth ward, or wherever it was, they would want to stop it, but the adjoining ward did not appear to take any part?