Report of the Committee Appointed to Investigate the Railroad Riots in July, 1877 Read in the Senate and House of Representatives May 23, 1878 (part 2 of 7)
Q. Where was the chief of police during the night?
A. I cannot say that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say you sent the men back on Friday. Where did you instruct them to go--to the Union depot or to Twenty-eighth street?
A. To the Union depot. I directed them to ask if they were wanted, and they came back and said that they were told that they were not wanted; that they had all the men they wanted.
Q. Do you know where the mayor was on Friday?
A. I cannot answer that, because I was at Twenty-eighth street, almost all day on Friday. My instructions were to go there, and if I saw a disturbance, to telegraph immediately to the city to the office.
Q. You did not see him on the ground at any time?
A. No--not on Thursday nor on Friday.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. While you were there, on Friday, did you see any effort made to take possession of the tracks?
A. No; no effort was made at all.
Q. You saw no disturbance at all on Friday?
A. No.
Q. Or Saturday?
A. No disturbance, until after the trouble about the firing.
Q. Was any effort made during Friday to run out trains?
A. Not while I was there--not on Friday.
Q. The crowd was there?
A. Quite a crowd was gathered there. They appeared to be going and coming all day.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You saw no effort made on Friday. How long were you there on Friday?
A. I suppose I was there three quarters of the day--walking all along, and seeing what was going on.
Q. There might have been an effort made, and you not have seen it?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. It appeared to be an orderly assemblage?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What were they doing?
A. Standing together and chatting--talking.
Q. Standing there all day?
A. They appeared to be coming and going.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the subject of conversation appear to be the stopping of the trains?
A. I did not hear them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What were they there for?
A. For curiosity, I suppose.
Q. Where is this William Johnson that you spoke of?
A. He is on the police force now.
Q. What is Crosby's first name?
A. George.
* * * * *
Philip Demmel, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. No. 26 Twelfth street, in the south side.
Q. What was your business during last July?
A. I was chief of the police of Pittsburgh.
Q. State whether any knowledge was brought to you in regard to the disturbance at Twenty-eighth street, on the 19th of July, and if so, state what time it was.
A. I came to the office sometime after dinner, and went into the mayor's office, and I was told that some of the railroad employés had gone on a strike at about Twenty-eighth street, and that Mr. Watt had sent for some policemen, and that about ten or a dozen had been sent out in charge of Detective McGovern. A short time after a dispatch came in signed by Mr. Watt, asking for fifty more men. I went on the street myself then. Our police force, of course, was in bed. They did duty at night. I went on the street, and saw a few of those discharged men, and asked them to go. Some went and some did not. I did not hear anything more of it until evening, when I came in from supper. They reported then that one man had been arrested, and after that everything was quiet. The men got their suppers, and we sent them out again. There were only a few that would not go. In the morning they came back--those who were on duty all night--and some of them said that the railroad officers had got as many men as they thought sufficient, and that the military was called out. It was thought at the mayor's office then that the services of the police would not be needed any longer.
Q. That the services of the police would not be needed any longer, you say?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the mayor say that?
A. I do not remember that the mayor said that, but----
Q. That was the decision you came to?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. After a consultation with the mayor, was it?
A. I cannot recollect any direct consultation with the mayor.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Was he there?
A. Yes, sir; but I am satisfied that he was of the same opinion.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did Officer McGovern report to the mayor during the afternoon?
A. I believe he came in before the rest came for supper, and reported this disturbance--about a man being arrested for striking Mr. Watt, and he then reported all quiet after that.
Q: Did he report to you by telegraph?
A. No; yes--I believe they did telegraph this arrest first from the Twelfth ward station.
Q. You have arrangements at the station-house to receive reports from all parts of the city, have you not?
A. From eight different parts of the city--yes, sir.
Q. From that portion of the city?
A. Yes, sir; there is a station-house within two blocks of Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Did you receive any report from Officer McGovern during the afternoon?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the nature of it?
A. That all was quiet--that this man had been arrested for striking Mr. Watt.
Q. Was there a dispatch sent you, or communicated to you from Mr. Watt during the afternoon, that he wanted fifty more men?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time was that?
A. I do not remember--perhaps an hour after the first squad of police went out.
Q. What did you do?
A. I stated that before. I went out on the street, and saw some of the discharged men.
Q. Did you raise the fifty men you wanted?
A. No, sir; I did not raise twenty men. I did not raise seven men, no more than that.
Q. Could you not have got fifty men at that time?
A. No.
Q. Did you make any call on the night force?
A. No.
Q. Did you make any call for police--any demand for a posse of police?
A. Of the regular force?
Q. Or any force?
A. I simply went on the street, and around Fifth avenue and Smithfield street, and asked these men if they would go.
Q. Did you have any conversation with the mayor?
A. I think the mayor handed me this dispatch.
Q. Did he make any call for a posse of police?
A. No; no more than telling me to do as I did--to see if I could get the men.
Q. Did he tell you how the men were to be paid?
A. I do not know. That was one objection with these men. They wanted to know about their pay, and whether it was going to be a regular thing. I could not satisfy them about that, and they did not care much about going.
Q. You just went around and hunted up the men that would go voluntarily of their own accord?
A. Yes; after getting this report from the Twelfth ward station-house. We thought that fifty men would hardly be necessary anyhow; but we could not have raised them if we had wanted them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Could you not have got them if you had commanded them?
A. We could not command them any more than I could command you.
Q. Could not the mayor have commanded them?
A. He had no right to command them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. He did not tell you to command any men to serve.
A. No.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. What was the reason you could not get these men to go out?
A. Well, we had a reduction of our force a short time before, and some of these men thought that they were not treated right, and when I asked them to go out, they wanted to know if they would be placed on the force permanently. Of course I could not satisfy them, and they did not want to go.
By Mr. Means:
Q. At any time you were there, did the firemen call on you to assist them?
A. I saw the firemen only on Sunday, and it was understood then that the mob would not allow them to put water on the property.
Q. Did they ask the police officers to help them?
A. I do not know that they did. I was out there with the mayor, and we had too few men. The firemen would change their place time after time as the fire came down. A man came and said that they wanted to throw water on the fire, indicating a car burning, and the mayor said: "All right, we will protect you." We immediately formed the men to protect them, but afterwards they did not throw water on that fire at all.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where was the mayor during Thursday afternoon?
A. I saw him in the office, I think, once or twice.
Q. Where was he during Thursday night?
A. I think in the office.
Q. Did you receive any instructions from him during the night?
A. I went to him during Thursday night to place one of our lieutenants in charge over the force at Twenty-eighth street--Lieutenant Coates. It was his suggestion, I believe.
Q. At the mayor's suggestion?
A. Yes; or mine, and he agreed with it.
Q. What time was that?
A. About supper time.
Q. Where was he during the day Friday?
A. I remember seeing him in the office.
Q. Did you receive any instructions from him during the day in regard to this disturbance at Twenty-eighth street?
A. No; there was no disturbance there during that day. There was a crowd there, and the military were there.
Q. Where was the mayor during Friday night?
A. I cannot answer that.
Q. Where was he on Saturday?
A. On Saturday he was in the office. In and out as usual. At the time we got the report of the firing he was in the office, I know, because he sent for me and asked me to take a couple of men out Penn avenue, and close all the saloons in the vicinity of this disturbance.
Q. What time was that?
A. I think along about four o'clock.
Q. Four o'clock on Saturday he asked you to take two men out and close all the saloons in what district?
A. You mean what police district?
Q. Yes.
A. The third police district.
Q. Extending over how much space?
A. Over the city in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street. We closed all the saloons there from Thirtieth to Twenty-fourth street. We then came in and sent another squad out to close the balance.
Q. How far?
A. Down to Eleventh street.
Q. Had you received any instructions from him during the day, (Saturday before this,) in regard to the disturbance out there?
A. No.
Q. The saloons had been open out there until three or four o'clock on Saturday?
A. Yes; they were open at the time we went there.
Q. What time did you arrive there?
A. I can't tell. It was immediately after hearing of the firing. We walked up Liberty street as fast as we could.
Q. You went with the two men, and saw that your orders were executed?
A. We went in and asked these men, and told them it was the request of the mayor to have them close their saloons.
Q. Did they comply?
A. Most generally.
Q. During the day, Sunday, did you receive any orders from the mayor?
A. No; except I was out with him at the scene of action in the afternoon. The mayor was out there before daylight, and I was out there myself. I came in about six or seven o'clock, and got my breakfast, and went out at ten o'clock, and then I found the mayor there.
Q. Did you receive any orders during Sunday night from the mayor?
A. Nothing, except about handling the police, in trying to prevent the mob getting into those stores.
Q. What did you do to prevent that?
A. They called some of the south side police over, and had them doing duty around in places where they anticipated there might be a break made, but there was considerable damage done before the police arrived.
Q. What damage was done before the police arrived?
A. A couple of stores were gutted, on Penn avenue and on Liberty street.
Q. What kind of stores?
A. The one on Penn avenue was a pawnbroker's and the one on Liberty street was a gun shop.
Q. Do you know who broke open the stores?
A. Since then I know of one party that was a leader in it. But I do not know the others.
Q. Were any policemen in the vicinity at the time?
A. No; at that time there were no police on duty. They didn't go on duty until eight o'clock.
Q. Were any policemen on duty throughout the city during the day, Friday?
A. No.
Q. During the day, Saturday, throughout the city, I mean?
A. No.
Q. They were not on duty until eight o'clock, Saturday night?
A. No.
Q. Then these stores were broken open before eight o'clock?
A. Yes; that is, the first two.
Q. When there were no policemen on duty?
A. Yes.
Q. When did the mayor put on any day force, or was there any day force on Sunday?
A. On Saturday night I put a notice, by the order of the mayor, into two of the Sunday papers, to have all those ex-policemen report at eleven o'clock on Sunday, but got very few reports.
Q. How many reports did you get?
A. I do not remember now--not probably over fifteen or twenty reported in time.
Q. Were they placed on duty during Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there any policemen on duty throughout the city on Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. Well, the third district had some of the south side police on duty on Sunday night, in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street, and the police there I brought in on Sunday morning, and got their breakfasts, and sent them out again. Some of them strayed off, of course.
Q. As chief of police, can you not give us the number of policemen on duty during Sunday, in the whole city?
A. I do not think there were more than eighty. That is, we got more men on as it grew later in the day.
Q. This notice you placed in the papers was merely a request for the discharged police force to report at eleven o'clock?
A. Yes; I had the orders, and I think the mayor had consulted with the committee of safety, or some one who assured him they would be responsible for the pay of the police, and would see that the police stayed on.
Q. What time did you get that notice into the papers?
A. It was given to the papers on Saturday night.
Q. Was it published in the evening editions?
A. It was published in the Globe and Leader of Sunday morning.
Q. By whom was the notice signed?
A. By myself.
Q. As chief of police?
A. Yes.
Q. You say you got very few reports?
A. Very few; that is, at eleven o'clock.
Q. During Sunday night how many police did you have on duty?
A. I had all the old force, and I expect, perhaps, about forty or fifty of the discharged men.
Q. That would make about one hundred and forty or one hundred and fifty men during Sunday night?
A. Yes.
Q. How many did you have on duty during the day--Monday?
A. Well, those policemen came reporting in one after another from Sunday until Tuesday, and they never went off duty at anytime from Sunday night, from the time they went on, until about Wednesday, I guess.
Q. Where did the mayor spend the day--Sunday?
A. Along Liberty street, part of the day.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. About the scene of the riot?
A. Right there.
Q. What was he doing there?
A. All he could to prevent the depredations. He was with the police; but we could not do anything. He went to Union depot and made a speech to the mob; but that did not have any effect. They stoned him, and he had to get out.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What time was that?
A. I do not have any distinct recollection of any time that day. It was, perhaps, half an hour previous to the burning of Union depot.
Q. Was he out there on Sunday when the fire was going on?
A. Yes.
Q. The fire commenced out beyond Twenty-eighth street and worked down this way?
A. Yes.
Q. How many men were engaged in burning cars, or in the actual destruction of property there, during Sunday?
A. That is a hard matter for me to say. The track in some places--I suppose there are three or four or five rows--and the freight cars were packed in alongside of one another, and on the top of those cars and in between them, there was a crowd of people all the time. Some of them may not have had a hand in doing any damage, but I think that most everybody that was on the track--of course there were some spectators that didn't have any hand in it--but the majority of the people there would break open a car or gut a car whenever they could. I could not say how many, but a great many, three hundred or four hundred anyhow.
Q. Were those men armed? Had they weapons?
A. I didn't see any weapons except a few revolvers.
Q. As chief of police, I ask you if you do not think you could have taken one hundred policemen, with their maces, or the weapons that they usually carry, and have thrown them across the track there, and driven back that crowd?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because the crowd was on all sides, and I would not know how to form the men to do that to have a solid line. The crowd was along the track and in between the cars as much as five hundred or six hundred yards at a time, and they would come rushing in and yelling every way, from below and above.
Q. I ask you if, in your judgment, you do not think that you could have taken one hundred policemen and stationed them across the track in front of Union depot, from the hill down to the block of buildings, and have driven back the crowd as they came up?
A. If I had had one hundred men there that might have been accomplished. I did try it with what men I had.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. How many men did you have?
A. Not more than fifteen or sixteen together at one time. The policemen, of course, got around among the people, or the mob, and we could not find them.
Q. It was not possible to keep them together?
A. I could not keep them together. In order to get at the men, the policemen would have to divide, and it was such a big mob, we could not keep them together.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Could you not have formed at some cross street, say Fifteenth or Sixteenth street, and then have resisted the crowd and kept them back?
A. On the street?
Q. Yes?
A. Well, the crowd on the street was not so unruly as those on the railroad.
Q. But Sixteenth street runs up to the railroad. Now, could you not have formed the men at Sixteenth street and thrown them across the railroad, with one wing running out towards the hill, and then have kept the crowd back?
A. No; because you could not have got the mob together at any one point--because the mob most all the time extended five hundred or six hundred yards.
Q. To what point did the mob extend, coming towards the city?
A. Nearly into Union depot.
Q. Then could you not have formed at Union depot and kept them back?
A. It would have taken a great many more men than that.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was any effort made at all to get control of this crowd at any time during the disturbance?
A. Yes.
Q. With your fifteen or sixteen men, you mean?
A. Sometimes we had twenty--all the men we had, or that could be got together--perhaps, sometimes, twenty-five or thirty men. They would be getting in among the mob and trying to drive them back.
Q. Had the police authorities no organization or no arrangement to keep the crowd from coming, or did they allow people to come from all directions when they knew a disturbance of this kind was going on--did you have any organization at all?
A. Not a very good organization. The men went out there in the morning, and they had been up all night, and they were tired, and it would have been impossible to keep the crowd back. They flocked in from all parts of the city, and from the country for miles around.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. In other words, you really had not any organization of the police force?
A. When I went up there, our men were scattered. I took them on the railroad several times, but was unable to do any good. I took them on the railroad in a body, but they could not be kept there any time without being separated.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was any effort made to make any arrests, during this disturbance, of parties engaged in the riot?
A. On Sunday morning, we arrested about one hundred and thirty--that was the beginning of the fire--when they began to pillage the freight cars.
Q. Did you arrest any of the parties that were pillaging?
A. We arrested them coming away with goods.
Q. What did you do with them?
A. We brought them down in the morning, in the "black maria," to the Central station, but Deputy Mayor Butler, I believe, discharged most of them, and fined some of them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you know how many were fined?
A. I cannot tell. I did not stay to the hearing myself.
Q. What is Mr. Butler's first name?
A. Joseph.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Your people took these men up, going away with goods?
A. Yes. We put them in the Twelfth Ward station, and then put them in the "black maria," and brought them to the Central station, and heard them there. Mayor McCarthy was up all night, and he was tired, and he deputized Deputy Mayor Butler to hear them.
Q. And he discharged them?
A. Yes; he discharged a good many of them.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you know whether those people were citizens of Pittsburgh, or people that had just run in?
A. Some were citizens of Pittsburgh and some were strangers.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the mayor or anybody else say to you, at any time, that it was necessary for the railroad officials to get out of town--that their lives were in jeopardy.
A. I never heard any such expression coming from the mayor.
Q. That it was necessary for the railroad officials to get out of town--that their lives were in jeopardy? Was that said to you by the mayor or by anybody else?
A. I am satisfied that I didn't hear any expression like that coming from the mayor, but I heard talk like that on the street.
Q. From whom?
A. Most any of the crowd that would be congregated together would be talking about this thing.
Q. Citizens of Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you name any of them?
A. Not now. It was the general talk. General Pearson, I guess, was named in such talk more often than the railroad officers.
Q. But you heard that talk about the railroad officials?
A. Yes; that it would not be safe for them to show up.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. One question about this plundering and thieving: Were those parties discharged the same day that they were arrested--on Sunday?
A. The same day--Sunday.
Q. Then the arrests amounted virtually to nothing?
A. Yes; except in saving the property of the company, or whoever it belonged to.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was the mayor present when you offered protection to the firemen, at the fire engine, when they proposed to throw water on those burning cars?
A. Yes; the mayor was present. One of the firemen asked him, if he would protect them, and he said yes, and the fireman said, that is what we want. Then they made the attachment, but did not throw any water afterward on the fire.
Q. Did they make any proposal to the mayor, to take an active part himself--to hold the nozzle?
A. No; I do not think they did.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Why did they not throw the water?
A. Because, I suppose, they were intimidated.
Q. But when you gave them the protection they asked, did they not make an effort to throw the water?
A. No.
Q. Did the mob make a rush?
A. No; no more than following the engine.
Q. What reason did they give for not throwing the water?
A. I do not know.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who had charge of the engine at that point?
A. I do not know; I do not know what engine it was.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did the firemen throw water on private property when it was burning?
A. All the time.
Q. But not on the railroad property?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you know who the man was who asked protection from the mayor?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did the mob interfere with private property at any time?
A. Not during that day. They did attempt to during that night and also during Sunday night.
Q. What attempts were made on Sunday night?
A. The American house, I think, or some place near it, was gutted, but by that time we had a pretty good force, and we went there and drove them away and arrested some of them.
Q. Who had command there?
A. Lieutenant Coates.
Q. He had no trouble in beating the crowd away?
A. He had some trouble, but he did it.
Q. How many men had he?
A. I went there afterwards, and we had, I suppose, some forty men there.
Q. After the railroad property was destroyed--by that time you had a pretty good police force?
A. Yes; the men were reporting during the day.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. You stated you had sixteen policemen at Union depot?
A. I stated I had sixteen in line.
Q. Where were the balance of your police at that time?
A. They were scattered among the mob.
Q. The whole police of the city were there?
A. No, sir; all I could gather up at that time were there.
Q. Are you still the chief of police?
A. No, sir; there is another administration.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have you a police commission or police committee, that have any special duty in taking charge of the police or in regulating the police?
A. No, sir; it is the mayor that has that power here.
Adjourned to meet at three o'clock, P.M.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
ORPHANS' COURT ROOM, PITTSBURGH, Monday, February 11, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was--
* * * * *
Henry Metzgar, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the Eighth ward, Pittsburgh.
Q. What official position did you hold in the city last July?
A. I was the mayor's clerk.
Q. What knowledge had you on Thursday of any disturbance among the railroad employés?
A. I think my first knowledge was on Wednesday, but to get at the data I would request to send for the information made against Thomas McCall.
[A paper exhibited to witness.]
Q. Is that a copy of the information?
A. Yes. On Thursday, the 19th, Mr. Watt came into the office, and asked for a number of policemen. As to the exact number I don't know, I didn't exactly hear the number, but I understood he wanted ten policemen to go out on the Pennsylvania railroad. The mayor went out with me to the chief of detectives, and they got a number of policemen, and arranged them up in line, and I think I asked Mr. Watt how many he wanted, and he said ten. One or more of them then stepped out of the ranks. Ten policemen went out, I believe, to the railroad. About twelve o'clock of that day we received a telegram, asking, I think, for fifty policemen additional.
Q. From whom?
A. To the best of my recollection the telegram was from Mr. Watt. I immediately went out and hunted some of the policemen who had been discharged--I hunted them up, and several of the officers went out and hunted them up. I notified a number myself to report at the office for duty at the Pennsylvania Railroad Company's depot. How many reported I don't know. It not being my special duty, I paid no attention to it. But I know a number of them reported. Where they went to I don't know personally. About four o'clock that evening, the mayor asked me if there was any news from the Twelfth ward. I told him I could telegraph to the Twelfth ward and see. We did so, and the report came from the station that all was quiet.
Q. The Twelfth ward takes in this district at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; the mayor then left the office to go to Castle Shannon where his family is, as I believed, for the night. About that time--about five o'clock, Mr. Watt came in and asked for from fifty to a hundred additional policemen. I told him I didn't know where we could get them--that all we had for effective duty was ninety men, and, in the absence of the mayor, I couldn't take away the policemen from all portions of the city, for the purpose of protecting the property of the railroad company. Mr. Watt said to me, what will I do. I said, I don't know--the only thing--if you have a fear of any danger to your property--you had better call upon the sheriff, and the sheriff can call a posse comitatus to protect the property if there is any danger. Mr. Watt said he would do so. That is the last I saw of him until some time after the riot. No--the next morning--the morning of the 20th--he came in, and made this information against Thomas McCall. The mayor, at the time, said to him, that our police force was very limited, and in making those arrests we would have to make quiet arrests. The warrants were placed in the hands of the officers, for the purpose of ascertaining where those parties lived, and to find out who they were, and all about them. For the most part, they were strangers, as far as we knew. Officer McGovern had the warrants. The next morning Mr. Houseman, of the firm of Hampton & Dalzell, came into the office, and asked me how many of the parties had been arrested. I told him I didn't know that any were arrested. That the mayor's instructions were to proceed quietly. He said, can you give me this information. I said, no, it is part of the record, and cannot go out of our hands. He then asked for the names of the parties against whom the information was brought, and he copied the names, and as he was going out he said, I am instructed by Mr. Hampton to tell you folks not to execute these warrants. I said, very well--this is a matter entirely in your own hands. I went out with him to the officer, and told the officer to produce his warrants. He produced them, and I told him, you are instructed by Mr. Hampton, through Mr. Houseman, not to execute them. He said, that was all right. That is all I know, unless some special question may arise.
Q. How many policemen had been discharged prior to Thursday?
A. One hundred and sixteen.
Q. How long had they been discharged before that?
A. They were discharged, I think, sometime about the latter part of June, or may be the 1st of July. I am not certain as to the date.
Q. Had you any knowledge of any anticipated outbreak or strike by the men before it was communicated to you by Mr. Watt?
A. Not the slightest. And at that time we had no idea there was going to be any such trouble at all, as we have had sometimes in this city.
Q. You were present when Mr. Watt asked the mayor to furnish him with the police?
A. I was in the office.
Q. You heard the mayor's reply?
A. He went out with Mr. Watt and instructed the chief of police to get the men.
Q. Did Mr. Watt have to promise to pay the men before the mayor gave that instruction?
A. I believe something was said about pay. These men, you see, were not on the pay-rolls of the city. The regular men were in bed or scattered all over the city. These men happened to be there that day, being paid off.
Q. Did the mayor require Mr. Watt to become responsible for their pay?
A. I believe something was said about the railroad company--that it would have to pay the men, as no provision was made by the city for their pay. I think very few of these men were on the regular force.
Q. Did the mayor make that a condition before he instructed you to send out for the men?
A. He never instructed me to send out for anybody.
Q. Who did he instruct?
A. Either the chief of detectives or the chief of police--I cannot remember which.
Q. Did he make any order at that time, calling out policemen?
A. Not as I know of.
Q. These men went out as volunteers?
A. Yes; in that sense. They were men who had been discharged. They went out under the control of Officer Charles McGovern.
Q. They volunteered to go?
A. We had no right to make a demand on them as a police force. They were not in the employ of the city.
Q. When the telegram came to you calling for fifty policemen, what effort did you make to get them?
A. We hunted them up as well as we could. A great many of these men wouldn't go because they were incensed at the city for discharging them, but a number of them did respond.
Q. You hunted up as many as you could get to go willingly?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. About thirty-five. It not being my special business, I didn't pay much attention to it.
Q. Did you notify the mayor of that call for fifty additional police?
A. Yes; he sent us out, and says, go hunt them up.
Q. How many did you get?
A. I think about thirty-five. I never burdened my mind specially with that.
Q. Did you get another call from the railroad company?
A. I have no recollection of another call, except when Mr. Watt came and said he wanted from fifty to one hundred men additional.
Q. Did you communicate that to the mayor?
A. I did when he came into the city, at eight o'clock on that evening.
Q. What evening?
A. Thursday evening.
Q. What did the mayor say?
A. He said he didn't know where he could get the policemen. Our intention in calling the police was simply to protect property from getting stolen.
Q. Did he make a demand upon the citizens of the city to join the police force at any time?
A. We made a demand--certainly we did.
Q. When?
A. On Sunday night, for instance, when I made a call upon the citizens to volunteer to protect the water works of the city.
Q. Had you made any demand prior to that Sunday night?
A. I cannot say. I know of that for a fact.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What demand?
A. He said, how many people will volunteer to protect the water-works of the city, and I ask for volunteers. As I understood, they intended to burn them down. Out of some two hundred men, four responded, I think. He said he understood they were in danger.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. But he summoned no posse from the citizens of the city during the riots, did he?
A. I don't know that he did.
Q. How many of those discharged policemen were at the city hall on Thursday when those ten men went out?
A. I cannot say how many were there. They were in and out, being paid off. I cannot say how many. Quite a number of them, I know.
Q. How many could you have got to go out there at that time, do you think?
A. We got all we could.
Q. To go voluntarily?
A. Yes; I know, personally, I used every exertion I could, and I know Mr. Davis was out hunting up men.
Q. Were you out there during the riots at any time?
A. I was out on Friday.
Q. At what point?
A. At Twenty-eighth street.
Q. How large a crowd was there?
A. At the time I was there I suppose probably a thousand people were there.
Q. How many were engaged in the riotous proceedings?
A. None that I saw.
Q. What were they doing at that time?
A. They were assembled there listening to a speech made by Doctor Donnelly, counseling moderation, and advising those not connected with the railroad to go home and attend to their own business. Some other speeches were made by one or two more.
Q. What was the effect of the speech upon the crowd?
A. I don't know that it had any effect. It had no special effect particularly one way or another.
Q. Did they listen to it?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they make any response to it in any way?
A. Some response was made to Doctor Donnelly when he counseled those having no business there to go home. Some of them made some remarks from the outside of the crowd--that is enough now, you just stop there; and things of that kind.
Q. What time did the mayor return from Castle Shannon?
A. Shortly after eight o'clock. It may have been eight and a half o'clock.
Q. Where did he remain during the night?
A. In the office, I think.
Q. All night?
A. I can't say, for I didn't stay there.
Q. Where was the mayor Friday, during the day?
A. In and out the office all day, so far as I know. I know he was there.
Q. Was any effort made to increase the police force on Friday?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Nor on Saturday?
A. No.
Q. When were the discharged men placed back on the police force?
A. They were not placed back on the police force until Monday. I think Monday a number of them reported for duty. A committee of councils, or councils held a session on Sunday morning; but there was so much confusion that nothing was done. The police force was not replaced until Monday or Tuesday; that is, the additional men.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Where is the mayor at the present time?
A. In Philadelphia, I believe. He has left a note that he would be home to-morrow.
Q. What was said about these men being paid?
A. There was some conversation about the railroad company--that it would have to pay these men, because the men were not on the pay-rolls of the city at the time.
Q. Did the mayor make that inquiry of Mr. Watt, as to who would pay?
A. I know there was some conversation on that subject.
Q. Did or did not the mayor say to you that it was necessary for the officers of the railroad to go out of town, that their lives were in jeopardy?
A. No.
Q. Did anybody else say so?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever hear it said?
A. No; only after the riots. I understood they left town for fear of that, and I was rather astonished to find that some of them had been out of town.
Q. Did anybody there state to you that General Pearson had better go out of town?
A. No.
Q. Did you know of his being out of town?
A. No.
Q. Did you know of any of those railroad officers being out of town?
A. No; only subsequently.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did any of the citizens call upon the mayor, requesting him to put on an additional force?
A. Well, I guess--I do not know that. They did not up to Saturday afternoon, until the time of this firing.
Q. Didn't they do it on Friday?
A. No.
Q. On Saturday?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did they offer to become responsible for the payment of the additional police?
A. When?
Q. Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?
A. I never heard of it at all. I never heard any such an offer made. The committee of public safety afterwards agreed to pay a certain number of men on the police force from that time until the end of the year.
Q. When did they make that proposition?
A. I think Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, but it was after all the trouble had occurred, so far as I know anything of it.
Q. You know nothing of any such offer having been made on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?
A. No.
Q. Were you with the mayor during those days?
A. Off and on, Friday and Saturday. On Sunday I was at the central station until twelve o'clock, noon. We had about one hundred and twenty-five prisoners there Sunday morning, and it took all my attention until noon that day to get through with the business.
Q. What were they arrested for?
A. For carrying away property, and stuff, and various things, and disorderly conduct. One thing and another of that kind.
Q. For larceny and disorderly conduct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Before whom were they taken?
A. Before Deputy Mayor Butler.
Q. What was done with those persons?
A. Some were fined, and some were held for court, and some were discharged. A great many were discharged, as one of the officers came down with the report that the jailor said that he could not hold them or keep them.
Q. What persons were they who were arrested?
A. I cannot say. Most of those names are fictitious.
Q. Did you get their residences?
A. No; the residences were not taken.
Q. How many did you hold for court?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. Did you keep a record of it?
A. Yes; there is a record of it.
Q. Have you the record now in your office?
A. I do not know whether it is there now. I passed the record out of my hands to the comptroller of the city.
Q. How many were fined?
A. Quite a number.
Q. Did they pay their fines?
A. Some of them did and some went to jail.
Q. How many went to jail?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. Can't you make an estimate?
A. I really could not, because you can imagine that morning I had not much stomach for anything to keep facts and figures. It is just a general idea. Everything was in such terrible confusion.
Q. How large were the fines?
A. From three to five dollars.
Q. You say you cannot tell who those men were, or where they resided?
A. No; they were people I never saw before.
Q. Those who were committed to jail. Did you ever ascertain afterward who they were and where they came from?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you ever make any effort?
A. I never did. The police made efforts afterwards to try to ascertain, I believe, who they were, but I do not know what they did, or whether they did anything or not.
Q. Can't you tell something about what class of people they were from their dress?
A. They all looked to be of the poorer class of people, but what they were or who they were I cannot say.
Q. Can't you tell whether they were tramps or railroad men or people of the poorer class?
A. Some were tramps--I know that. I have a recollection of that. I don't think there were any railroad men. There may have been a few, but a very few, though. They were generally of the poorer class of people, picking up plunder.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they Pittsburghers?
A. That I cannot say. I never saw them before, and have never seen them since.
By Mr. Means:
Q. When those policemen were sent out there, was there any arrangement made by Mr. Watt, or any other person, to keep the time of the men while in service?
A. I had nothing to do with that. That was a matter for the clerk of the chief of police to attend to. I know that Mr. Watt, or somebody, sent down a check to pay them.
Q. Have you any recollection of a party of eighty sent to the work-house?
A. I remember a party of forty-six sent there. They came here from Cumberland, and were arrested on the arrival of the train here.
Q. What train?
A. On the Connellsville railroad.
Q. Those were all sent up in a body?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When was that?
A. On the 23d or 24th of July.
* * * * *
R. H. Fife, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you sheriff of Allegheny county last July?
A. Yes.
Q. How long have you been sheriff?
A. Two years the first Monday of last January.
Q. State what knowledge you have of the disturbance of the peace that commenced on the 19th of July last?
A. On the 19th of July last I had been out of the city during a part of that day, and came home late in the evening. I went to my house, and remained there until sometime in the night. I had been sleeping, I think. About eleven o'clock, between that and twelve o'clock----
Q. Thursday night?
A. Yes. Mr. Scott--that is Mr. John Scott--Mr. Watt, and another gentleman--I do not recollect his name--came to the house. I came down and admitted them into the parlor. They told me of the trouble they had--that Mr. Watt had been assaulted, and that a large crowd was out there. They wished me to go out and see what I could do. I told them I would go, and I put my coat on, and called one of my deputies--Mr. Haymaker--and we started down to Union depot. There we met General Pearson, and he went with us out to one of the offices--I do not know just what office--and then General Pearson and Mr. Watt--I think Mr. Watt went along, or some other gentleman connected with the railroad--and I went up to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. What time did you arrive at Twenty-eighth street?
A. It was after the middle of the night--between twelve and one o'clock. There was a large crowd of rough people there. But probably I am a little ahead of my story when I speak of Twenty-eighth street. On my road up from the depot to Twenty-eighth street, the cars on the siding there, and on the tracks that were not filled with merchandise, appeared to be all filled with people. A number of them were in there sleeping, and others were in there carousing. All the cars appeared to be full. At Twenty-eighth street, I asked why that assemblage of people were there, and they said they were on a strike, and that they proposed to stop the freight trains from going out, and that they had stopped them. I told them they were acting contrary to the law, and that they must disperse. The reply was, "go to hell you gray-headed old son of a bitch," that and other pet names of similar character. I then repeated the order that they must disperse, and that if I had not the power to do it, that I would have to try to get power sufficient to do it. They then replied, that General Pearson and I both might go to hell, that they had the mayor and his force on their side, and that Mr. T. C. Jenkins had agreed to give them one thousand barrels of flour to stand out, and that Mr. Alexander King had agreed to give them a thousand dollars. I told them they did not know those gentlemen as well as I did, or they would not talk that way. They said they knew them, and that we had better take a walk. About this time there was a diversion in the crowd. A courier came with a piece of paper--I did not have it in my hand, I did not get to see it--but a large number of them ran across, and they read the communication aloud. It read something in this way: "Hold your position until to-morrow morning, and we will send five hundred coal miners to assist you." It purported to come from the Monongahela Valley. They then assembled back. I was up on a pile of lumber talking to them, and I commenced to talk again, but, after this, they were far more abusive than before. The language would not do to repeat. In a short time another courier came with another communication, representing to come from Wilkes-Barre, that parties there would be here to assist them as soon as they could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were these people you spoke of, railroad men?
A. Not many of them. A portion of them were, but not many. They were the bad elements of society from all parts of the city, and from some parts of the county, in connection with thieves and blackguards from other parts of the country. A great many strangers were there. I made that remark to one of the railroad officials, that the crowd was not composed entirely of our people, and he differed with me, and I gave this answer at the time--I said "These are not our people, for I claim to know as many men in Allegheny county as any other man in it, and they are strangers here that I never saw." Some females were there, or ladies, the worst I ever saw.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You speak now of Thursday night?
A. Yes; my first introduction to the crowd. I remained some time, trying to get them to disperse. They did not offer me any violence, but refused to go, and said they would die there sooner than they would be driven off. One man there, who appeared to be a leader, had served two terms in the penitentiary. I knew him by sight. He appeared to be a leader. He was not a railroad man, and I do not think ever had been.
Q. What was his name?
A. He was killed on Saturday morning, by the Philadelphia soldiers, and, probably, I had better not name him. He amused himself up to Saturday morning annoying everybody, and was shot on Saturday morning. I became satisfied, that no force I had or could convene could hold that crowd there then, or the crowd that would likely be there in the morning. So I telegraphed to the Governor.
Q. What time was that?
A. It was after midnight. I suppose, about two o'clock.
Q. Friday morning?
A. Yes; I suppose so. I cannot give the exact time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. It was during that night?
A. Yes; about two o'clock. I telegraphed to the Secretary of the Commonwealth and to the Adjutant General.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you copies of those telegrams?
A. I think I have in my safe.
Q. I wish you would give us copies of them?
A. I will do so. I received an answer sometime after that that he had ordered General Pearson to call out one regiment of volunteers to assist in putting down the riot.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who was this from?
A. I think from Secretary Quay or the Adjutant General. General Pearson then was ordered to call out the regiment here--the Duquesne Greys. They were called out to be in readiness at a certain hour in the morning. Afterwards I walked down to the city hall, and found about thirty men there, and a number of them were trying to get home as fast as they could. About thirty of them I saw in uniform at the city hall. During the forenoon of Friday, I went with General Pearson and some others, out through the mob or crowd at Twenty-eighth street, and along the line up to Twenty-eighth street, and up to Torrens station. There was a large crowd also, and very boisterous, and apparently very determined. I talked to them, and urged them to disperse, but they hooted and jeered. They did not use quite so bad language, but there was plenty of it, as they had done the night before. They told me they would wade in blood to their knees before they would disperse, and that it was blood or bread with them. I also read a proclamation to them, purporting to come from the Governor, and they hooted and jeered at that, and said they did not care, that they were going to stop those trains and had stopped them. It was then about eleven o'clock, and they said at that hour the railroads over the whole country are stopped. General Pearson attempted to address them, but they hooted and jeered at him. I believe he offered to buy a car load of bread and bring it out to them if they would disperse, but they said it was blood or bread with them, and they would not disperse. One young man that appeared to act as spokesman of the crowd while General Pearson was talking to them--I went to him, and asked him why he was acting in the way he was, and why this crowd was here. I am going to give you his answer: He said the Pennsylvania Railroad Company has two ends, one in Philadelphia and one in Pittsburgh. We have determined on a strike, and in Philadelphia they have a strong police force, and they are with the railroad, but in Pittsburgh they have a weak force, and it is a mining and manufacturing district, and we can get all the help we want from the laboring elements, and we have determined to make the strike here. I said to him: "Are you a railroader?" he said "No. I am a laboring man and not a railroader." I then asked him his name. He said: "It might be John Smith and might be John Jones, but I am not here to tell you what it is." I said: "Where do you live?" He said "In the eastern part of the State." I advised him to go home, and not engage in this bad business, but he said he intended to see it through or leave his corpse here. I might say, at East Liberty I warned them to disperse, the crowd, and when they refused to disperse, I warned the women and children to disperse--that the military would be there in a short time, and probably somebody would be hurt. I warned all having no part in the riot to get out of the road. The women answered me that they were there to urge the men on to do what they wanted. Who the women were I do not know, but they answered me in that way. That was in the forenoon of Friday. About noon there was a request sent to me to send some of my deputies with the railroad officials. I understood they were going to try to move the trains on Friday afternoon. I detached Major Boyce, and told him to take as many of my deputies as were necessary, and go down to Union depot. He started after a while, and came back, and it was reported to me that they had decided not to move any trains that afternoon. Consequently, he was not needed, he said. On Saturday--the forenoon of Saturday--I was called on by James Richardson, a constable--I do not know in what ward he is constable--I generally see him here in the Second ward--he is an old constable for many years in the city--he called on me and said that he had some warrants to arrest some parties who were leaders of the riot, issued by Judge Ewing, president judge of our court of common pleas No. 2, and that he wished me to go with him and take what assistance I could, to assist him in arresting some of the leaders of the mob. I immediately detailed ten of my deputies to go out and try to raise a posse. They started out and reported to me about one o'clock, and they had some eight or ten men with them.
Q. On Saturday?
A. Yes; some of them appeared willing to go provided they were paid in advance, and others were willing to go--that is, appeared willing to go--under any consideration. We started and went down as far as Union depot, and I think by the time I got there with this posse my deputies had got up; they had all forsaken me and escaped except about six. We met Mr. Pitcairn there, and some of the other railroad officers. They told me they wished me to assist Mr. Richardson in arresting those parties, and that a division or a regiment, I do not know which they called it, of soldiers from Philadelphia would protect me. I went up with Mr. Richardson and Mr. Pitcairn, and another gentleman whom I saw giving his testimony here the other day; I do not know his name. We went up to Twenty-eighth street, and Mr. Pitcairn told me when we got to Twenty-eighth street, that he could not see the parties for whom the warrants were issued. I replied to him, that then my duty in that respect was ended. If he could not point them out that I could not arrest them; that I did not know them. I had seen the list of names, and I did not know any of them. I passed through the crowd, and they hooted and jeered at me for a mile, I suppose, but they offered me no violence. I went clear through the crowd and came and turned back through a portion of it. The military were bringing up a Gatling gun and placing it in position. I came back to the side of the Gatling gun. The military were formed into what I would call three sides of a hollow square. Shortly after that, or previous to that I might say, as we passed up, General Pearson was at my side, and a man who appeared to be a kind of leader of the crowd was on our right. He was very noisy and very boisterous, and God damning Pearson for bringing out his double-headers, and General Pearson just pointed at him and said, "That man will cause trouble after a little, I am afraid." The man saw him pointing. In some little time he came me--he forced himself through the lines of the military and came to me--and said, what had I against him? I said I had nothing against him, so long as he behaved himself. He asked what General Pearson had against him. I said I did not know. I did not hear him say anything against him. He said he was a friend of Pearson's, and had nothing against him, but that he was God damned if he was going to be pointed out that way in the crowd, that he had friends enough there to wipe us both out. I told him to get out. He said he would not go. I put my hands on his shoulders, and he was then thrown through to the crowd by one of the officers, He there became very noisy.
The military came up through the crowd in front with arms apart, and the crowd stood still, refusing to get back. The soldiers were then ordered to charge bayonets. Then somebody cried out in the crowd to hold their position. They came up at a charge bayonets; but a number of their guns were seized by the mob, as you might call it, and at this time, any number of stones were thrown. I saw one soldier get struck with a piece of coal on the forehead, just peeling his forehead, and he fell to his knees. About the same time there were three or four pistol shots fired from the crowd into the ranks of the soldiers, and, as I said before, any quantity of stones and clubs were thrown. Then the firing commenced by the soldiers, and it ran along around two sides of the square. It was a kind of running fire without an order to fire. It put me in mind of a pack of shooting crackers, when you set one end on fire one report would follow another. Some parties were killed and a great many ran away. I waited some half hour or more there. The soldiers then retired towards the round-house, and I returned to my home.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What time did this firing occur?
A. In the afternoon about I should judge between four and five o'clock. I think it was near five o'clock.
Q. Did you remain home during the night?
A. I did not. I came down to my office, and remained there.
Q. Go on and relate your movements during the balance of the night, and Sunday and Sunday night.
A. All that night, and Sunday and Sunday night, I remained in the court-house here. I was useless and powerless, and they were hunting me to murder me. On Monday morning, I went to my office door, and a drunken creature was leaning there, with a revolver in his right hand, hunting for the sheriff. I asked him what he wanted with him. He said, I want to see him. I said you can take a good look at him now, and, with that, I took him by the collar, and kicked him down the steps. I have not seen him since. I might have stated, that on Thursday night, (the first night I went out into the crowd,) there were shots fired when General Pearson and I went out there first. I do not know whether they were fired at any person in particular. I think that they were intended to alarm more than anything else.
Q. When Mr. Scott came to your house, on Thursday night, to inform you of the riotous proceedings, did he advise you to consult with your counsel before going out?
A. No; he said it probably would be necessary, before I got through, to see my counsel. I told him that I could not see him then, that he had returned to his home, in the Nineteenth ward, Pittsburgh, and it would be impossible for me to see him at that hour of the night. I told him I would see him at an early hour in the morning.
Q. Did he tell you why it would be necessary?
A. No; I do not think he did, particularly--not to my recollection. He said if I became satisfied, in my own mind, that I had not sufficient force to remove the crowd, that it would be my duty to call on the Governor for aid, and he wished me to be satisfied in my own mind.
Q. How many of your deputies did you take with you that night?
A. Only one--Mr. Haymaker.
Q. Did you call for any posse that night?
A. Not that night.
Q. You did not call for any posse before telegraphing to the Governor?
A. No; I did not. I will say this here, that although I was called on that night, I was aware pretty generally what was going on in regard to the strike previous to that. It could be heard on the street--parties were saying--the strike before this had occurred in other parts of the United States--and they would say it will be here--it will be here in a day or two. I could hear the remarks passed. Not only that, but every avenue of the city, for a week before, had been crowded. There was a very considerable travel by strangers coming to the city. The city was full of strangers at the time. There was no railroad or wagon road but what you could find on it a class of people traveling that you had never seen or heard of at all before, and they were coming into the city. The city was full of them. This I have not heard any other person remark but myself, but it is the fact of the case. On all the railroad trains you could see men coming in, riding on the tenders, or on the cow-catchers, or any way at all--on the steps, or any way.
Q. What days?
A. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I will give another little fact. This morning a lady came to my office, asking me to solicit transportation for her over the Pennsylvania railroad to Philadelphia. She wished to get a pass. I asked her why, and she said that she had a son living in Chester county who had come here and mixed himself in with the riots, and had laid out and slept out until he had got a cold, and that he now was dying with consumption, and she was poor, and wished me to solicit the Pennsylvania railroad company to give her a pass to go and see him before he died. She lives here, and her son is married and lives in Chester county. She lives nearly across the street from where I do. But I didn't know she had this son, though.
Q. As soon as you returned on Thursday night from Twenty-eighth street, you telegraphed to the Governor?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had you become satisfied, then, that it was necessary to call out the troops?
A. Yes, sir; I had. The riot had assumed--although there had been no actual outbreak, except the striking of Mr. Watt--had assumed such proportions then, that it would have been folly for me to attempt in this city to have got a posse to remove the crowd. I might, if I had had time, have got the rural districts of this county to assist me--I might have got a force there, but then it would have been a worse slaughter than what it was. But in this city it would have been folly for me to try it. I knew the feeling of the people.
Q. Did you make any effort on Friday forenoon to raise a posse?
A. I did not. I viewed it in this way. That, when I had called on the State authorities, and the State authorities had responded, that that relieved me of that responsibility of calling a posse. In fact, I considered the idea of a sheriff of any county calling out a posse almost as an obsolete piece of law to-day. The time was, when the military were under the control of the sheriff, but it is not so now.
Q. Do you know what the law is in regard to calling out the militia to suppress a riot?
A. I have read the acts of assembly.
Q. You knew what they were?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew what was necessary for you, as sheriff, to do before calling the militia?
A. Well, any citizen can call on the Governor for aid--any responsible party.
Q. But you knew what was necessary for you to do as sheriff?
A. I think I did. I might have been mistaken.
Q. You thought that you laid sufficient ground for calling on the Governor, did you?
A. Yes; this riot had assumed such proportions at that time--it had gone so far, and such a crowd was there, of all the rough elements of society, that no posse, raised inside of three or four days--and then it would have had to be collected from all parts of the county--could have removed it.
Q. How large was the crowd that night?
A. Well, I cannot tell you that, because the cars not loaded with freight, as I said before, were all occupied. Some had four or five in, and some ten or twelve in. I cannot tell how many cars were full. At Twenty-eighth street, I judge that a thousand persons were there at that time, and all along, from Union depot to Twenty-eighth street, they were scattered.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Those cars you saw the men in, were they regular freight cars or caboose cars?
A. I saw them in both. One thing other I wish to impress on the committee, and that is this: I see that other evidence--by reading it in the papers--places those warrants for the arrest of those parties on Saturday, in my hands. It is not the case. They were in the hands of James Richardson, the constable, and I was only acting as a guard to assist him.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was he not appointed as one of your deputies?
A. No; I told him I would go myself, and give him some of my men to assist him. I took thirteen of my regular deputies and myself to assist him, and some other men not regularly connected with the office. The names of some of them I cannot recollect.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Would it then have been possible to have arrested those men?
A. No, sir; not unless the military had done it. Probably, General Brinton might have been able, but I do not know. There was about a mile of a solid packed mob.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. On Saturday?
A. Yes; the day we had the warrants.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Friday?
A. On Friday there was a large crowd. It was continually increasing. It increased from Thursday, and kept on increasing all the time, on Friday and Saturday.
Q. Were they all taking a part?
A. No; a portion were lookers on, but the sympathy appeared to be all with the strikers. But I must say, that I did not see many of those strikers. After we had gone out to Torrens station, I asked Mr. Pitcairn how many men he knew in those two crowds, at Twenty-eighth street and Torrens station, as belonging to the road. After studying awhile, he said: "Well, really, I think I only know four."
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say the sympathy of all those gathered around was with the strikers?
A. It appeared to be.
Q. How extensive was that sympathy--to what extent was it carried among the people?
A. It was very extensive. In fact, I do hardly know any person whose sympathy was not with them. It went so far that on Saturday night, after the firing, parties were coming to my house and telling my family that they would be murdered or burned out before morning. My wife became alarmed, and in the street where I lived she could not get protection in any house. They would not let her in.
Q. Why?
A. Because they blamed me for being at the head of the soldiers, and for causing the killing of innocent parties. That was the reason they gave her--that they did not think they would be safe in letting her in.
Q. What street is that?
A. Washington street, Pittsburgh.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. On Thursday or Friday was this crowd boisterous or destroying things?
A. They were not destroying things. On Friday they were stopping all the trains coming in--stopping trains, and then hooking on locomotives and running the cattle cars, for instance, to Torrens station, and letting the cattle out in the field. In fact, Mr. Pitcairn will remember that we were ordered out of the locomotive that we were on, to let them run cattle out.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Not on Thursday and Friday, but after the firing occurred, how was the sympathy?
A. I think the sympathy was with the strikers from the first. I feel satisfied it was. But I am only giving you my own opinion.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. But you give that opinion, having formed it after intercourse with the people, and after being in the crowd?
A. Yes; I talked with a great many of them, and they appeared to think it was a hardship to reduce the wages and the numbers of the men, and also, once in a while, they would bring in this freight discrimination question.
Q. If you had had the warrants on Thursday night, could you have arrested those parties?
A. If I had had a posse of two hundred or two hundred and fifty I probably could have arrested them, but probably there would have been somebody killed. I believe on Thursday morning if I had had the number of police that Mayor McCarthy had, I could have arrested the leaders, and put in prison the disorderly parties, and that then the trouble would not have assumed the proportions it did. That is only my own idea of it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Could it have been done on Thursday?
A. As I said before, I was out of Pittsburgh part of Thursday. I was called away on business.
Q. But from the time you became acquainted with the difficulty first?
A. On Thursday morning I saw the crowd gathering around, and I think then if I had had a force and had been called on to anything with the force that Mayor McCarthy had, I think I could have done some good, but on Thursday night at one o'clock, I do not think it could have been done.
Q. When those messages were brought in and read to the crowd as coming from other parties, were there any messages sent out to them in reply?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. No responses were made to them?
A. There was considerable cheering.
Q. But were any answers sent?
A. No.
Q. Did those messages come in answer to messages that had been sent out?
A. I cannot answer that. I have given you about the purport of the messages. Probably if General Pearson shall be called he might recollect the purport a little distincter than I have.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were those telegrams?
A. I think not. I didn't so understand it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. There appeared to be an organization?
A. It looked to me in that light very much.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You stated one was from Wilkes-Barre?
A. Yes, and one from the Monongahela valley, and there was also one from Mansfield--that the coal miners there would be in in the morning.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Had you knowledge of any organization prior to this time?
A. Nothing that I could assert with any distinctness--nothing only rumor--while I firmly believe there was. Now I will give you another fact or instance to corroborate my theory: Some five weeks after the riot I was in St. Paul, and the mayor of St. Paul had gathered up thirteen tramps in a cave on the bank of the Mississippi river. I was at the hearing, and each one had a traveling sack or satchel, and they examined these satchels and there were goods like silk handkerchiefs, and so forth, in them. The mayor asked them where they got them, and they said, at Pittsburgh at the time of the riot, "How did you know there was going to be a riot there." "Oh! we knew it, and we were there." If you will telegraph to the mayor at St. Paul he will substantiate the fact.
Q. In regard to the extent of this sympathy with the strikers that you spoke of, I would like you to explain a little more upon that subject as to the extent of it, and as to what classes of people sympathized with the strikers?
A. The whole laboring class, so far as I know, were with the strikers in their sympathy.
Q. The entire laboring class?
A. Yes; I think so. Do not understand me to say that they were in sympathy with the riot. They were in sympathy with the men on account of their wages being reduced.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. With the railroad strikers?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. But they were not opposed to the railroad company?
A. I do not know that, but it was just this way that the railroad men had their sympathy. Then there was another sympathy of the merchants to a certain extent with these men. They believed they were not paid right, and that the railroad company were not doing----
Q. Among what class of merchants?
A. Our better class.
Q. The entire classes?
A. No; but a portion of them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was it sympathy with the strikers, or only prejudice against the railroad company?
A. I think they had sympathy and prejudice both.
Q. Do you think that any responsible portion of the people of Pittsburgh, whether laboring men or others, sympathized with the rioters after the difficulty had become a riot?
A. No; I think not. I would say here, that the responsible portion of the people of Pittsburgh were not in sympathy with the riot, but I would say, further, that it took a certain amount of riot to bring them to their senses. Something has been said in regard to seeing my solicitor. On Friday morning, I did see him at an early hour, and stated to him all I had done, and what I had done, and he advised me that I had done just exactly what he would have advised me to do. He stayed with me nearly all day Friday and Saturday. Before going up to Union depot in company with him, I walked down the street, looking for a posse to go along, and among other places we dropped in, was Air. Hampton's office. They two consulted, and both decided that I had acted in the right way. I am only satisfying you in regard to that. Those gentlemen, both, can be had at any time.
The following are the telegrams referred to in the foregoing testimony of Sheriff Fife:
PITTSBURGH, July 19, '77.
To Hon. JOHN LATTA, Lieutenant Governor of Penn'a.:
I have forwarded the following dispatch to his Excellency Governor Hartranft, at Harrisburg. Learning that he is absent from the State, I forward it also to you for such action as you may deem your duty and powers render proper.
Signed
R. H. FIFE, Sheriff of Allegheny county.
* * * * *
Following is the dispatch above alluded to:
PITTSBURGH, July 19, 1878.
HON. JOHN F. HARTRANFT, _Governor of Pennsylvania, Harrisburg_:
A tumult, riot, and mob exist on the Pennsylvania railroad at East Liberty and in the Twelfth ward of Pittsburgh. Large assemblages of people are upon the railroad, and the movement of freight trains, either east or west, is prevented by intimidation and violence, molesting and obstructing the engineers and other employés of the railroad company in the discharge of their duties. As the sheriff of the county, I have endeavored to suppress the riot, and have not adequate means at my command to do so, and I, therefore, request you to exercise your authority in calling out the military to suppress the same.
R. H. FIFE, (Copy.) Sheriff of Allegheny county.
* * * * *
BEAVER, PA., July 20, 3:35, A.M.
R. H. FIFE, Sheriff:
Your telegram received. I have telegraphed the Adjutant General.
M. S. QUAY, Secretary Commonwealth.
* * * * *
HARRISBURG, July 20, 2:11, A.M.
R. H. FIFE, Sheriff Allegheny county Pa.:
Gen. Latta will be here in an hour, and means taken to assist you if necessary.
C. N. FARR, JR., Private Secretary.
* * * * *
HARRISBURG, July 20, 2:30, A.M.
R. H. FIFE, Sheriff Allegheny county, Pa.:
The Constitution gives me no power to act in the matter. The Governor alone has the power. His law officer, Attorney General Lear, can be reached either at Harrisburg or Doylestown.
JOHN LATTA, Lieut. Gov.
* * * * *
LANCASTER, PA., 3:17, A.M.
R. H. FIFE, Sheriff Allegheny county, Pa.:
Have ordered General Pearson to place a regiment on duty to aid you in suppressing disorder.
JAMES W. LATTA, (Copy.) Adjutant General.
* * * * *
Hugh Y. Boyce, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were a deputy sheriff in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. You reside where?
A. No. 551 Fifth avenue.
Q. State to us what knowledge you have of the disturbance, and when it commenced--give us a statement of the facts?
A. Coming in on Friday morning, from attending a sale, I met the sheriff and General Pearson, on Grant street or on Liberty street. I told the sheriff I was going to the office, and I asked where he was going, and he said he was going out the Pennsylvania railroad a short distance. I asked him if he wished me to go along, and he said he did. Then the sheriff and Mr. Pitcairn and General Pearson and myself went to Torrens station. The sheriff there addressed the crowd, as also did General Pearson. They gave some good advice, but they took no notice of it.
Q. How did you go out?
A. On a locomotive.
Q. How large a crowd was there?
A. Five or six hundred--I couldn't tell.
Q. What class of people were there?
A. A pretty hard class.
Q. Railroad men?
A. Some were railroad men, but they were not all railroad men.
Q. What were they doing?
A. Standing in groups talking, on the railroad track, and by the side of the railroad track.
Q. Were you interfered with in going out?
A. No; except the crowd hallooed at us as we went along.
Q. How large a crowd was at Twenty-eighth street?
A. I cannot say that--perhaps four or five hundred.
Q. What response did those men make to the sheriff's admonitions?
A. They said they would have bread or blood.
Q. Anything else?
A. Nothing; but they used very bad language.
Q. They refused to disperse, did they?
A. Yes; General Pearson made a neat, handsome little speech to them, but they paid no attention to it, nor to the sheriff either.
Q. Did you return without any interference?
A. Yes.
Q. What occurred next?
A. The next was on Saturday. In the morning, sometime, the sheriff called me into the office, and told me to get up some men to report at the Pennsylvania railroad depot.
Q. Did you go?
A. Yes.
Q. How many were with you?
A. I think about fifteen or sixteen; I am not certain about that.
Q. Tell us what took place?
A. This was on Friday afternoon. We went out that afternoon to the depot. They wanted some assistance in moving some trains. After I went there, they concluded not to move any, and I returned to the office; and on Saturday I went again, with Constable James Richardson, probably about one o'clock.
Q. With how many men?
A. Seventeen or eighteen men?
Q. Who collected the men?
A. The most of them belonged to the sheriff's office.
Q. Did you try to collect a posse?
A. Yes; but I found it very hard work.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say it was hard work. Why?
A. Because the men didn't seem to be willing to give us their assistance.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What did they say when they were asked to go?
A. They said they would sooner go out and help the rioters.
Q. Did you get that response from any considerable number?
A. A few would answer in that way; others said that they had enough to do to attend to their own business.
Q. What class of men did you call on?
A. I called on citizens and on constables.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did any constables refuse to go?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What excuse did they make?
A. They didn't wish to go out to get shot.
Q. What class of men said that they would sooner go out and help the rioters?
A. Well, laboring men.
Q. You say you called on constables and citizens. Citizens is a very broad term. Did you call on any professional men?
A. No.
Q. On business men?
A. Yes.
Q. What response did they make?
A. That they had to attend to their own business, and couldn't leave on account of it--it being a busy day on Saturday.
Q. You got to the depot about one o'clock?
A. I think so.
Q. Was any crowd about Union depot there?
A. Yes; and soldiers, too.
Q. Were there any riotous proceedings around the depot at that time?
A. Not at that time, but a crowd was there, but they didn't appear to be specially riotous at that time.
Q. Did you move down to Twenty-eighth street with the sheriff, ahead of the militia?
A. We did.
Q. You formed one of the sheriff's posse?
A. Yes.
Q. There were about sixteen of you?
A. About eighteen. There may have been more.
Q. Were you armed?
A. No; some of them had revolvers. I had one.
Q. You had no weapons in view?
A. No.
Q. What took place at Twenty-eighth street?
A. There was quite a large crowd of people there--rioters.
Q. What were they doing?
A. Talking, and hallooing, and making a great noise.
Q. Had they begun to destroy property in any way?
A. Not when we went there--at least not when I was there.
Q. What did the sheriff do?
A. The sheriff advised them to disperse and go home.
Q. Advised them or commanded them?
A. Commanded them.
Q. What response was made?
A. Nothing but vile language, and throwing stones, and brickbats, &c.
Q. Were those stones thrown at the sheriff's posse or at the militia?
A. Promiscuously--all around in that neighborhood.
Q. Did they hit any of the sheriffs posse?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of them injured?
A. Not materially.
Q. Were any pistols fired?
A. Yes.
Q. How many shots were fired before the militia fired?
A. There may have been five or six.
Q. To what extent were the missiles thrown?
A. There was quite a shower of stones and brickbats.
Q. Was any command given to the militia to fire?
A. Not that I heard. I heard the command to charge bayonets, but no command to fire.
Q. Was the command to charge bayonets obeyed?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they drive back the crowd?
A. A very short distance.
Q. Did they drive them as long as they continued to charge?
A. Yes; they cleared the tracks.
Q. And drove them as far as they desired to?
A. I presume so, just at that time. Quite a number of the crowd--several of them--tried to take the muskets out of the hands of the soldiers.
Q. How did the firing by the militia commence--was it one shot--one shot or a volley?
A. One shot, and then another shot, and then two or three shots every second.
Q. A rattling volley?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it regular?
A. Yes.
Q. What effect did that have on the crowd?
A. It drove them away for the time being.
Q. Where did they assemble afterwards?
A. In different places down below Penn street and up on the hill.
Q. Did the crowd assemble between the depot and where the militia were then stationed?
A. I don't know.
Q. What became of you?
A. After the firing was over, probably three quarters of an hour, I came in Penn avenue.
Q. Did the posse remain together?
A. When the firing commenced we were standing immediately in front. It was too warm to stand there very long.
Q. Did the firing disperse the sheriff's posse, too?
A. Yes; it was a rather peculiar place to stand there.
Q. Do you know how many were killed there that evening?
A. I don't know the exact number now.
Q. Had you any knowledge of any pre-arranged purpose among those men to strike on that day?
A. I had not--only what you might judge from the crowds gathering there occasionally, at the corners, and on the railroad tracks, and different places.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any talk of striking among those men that gathered in crowds before the strike?
A. Yes; you could hear a great deal of talk about a strike, but nothing was said as to the time when it was going to take place.
Q. How long before this strike?
A. On Tuesday and Wednesday.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who was the talk among?
A. Among the laboring classes--among the men that worked in the mills, and the glass houses, &c., and railroad men.
Q. Did you hear it before the news of the strike on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad?
A. No.
Q. It was not until after that that you heard talk of striking?
A. No.
Q. Prior to that you had heard nothing that would lead you to believe there was an organization for the purpose?
A. No.
Q. That was the subject of conversation, I suppose, among all classes--to some extent?
A. Yes; it was.
* * * * *
Conrad Upperman, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In Penn avenue, between Thirty-third and Thirty-fourth streets.
Q. What was your occupation?
A. I was night foreman in the round-house.
Q. Were you on duty on Thursday night?
A. I was.
Q. State whether there was any disturbance about the round-house on that night.
A. There was none about the round-house at all. The only disturbances there were, took place out on the track, about Twenty-eighth street.
Q. What kind of a disturbance was it?
A. The railroad men and the others were combined--but they were not doing anything, except standing there in groups.
Q. During the night was the crowd noisy and boisterous?
A. Somewhat.
Q. You were in sight of them?
A. I was among them nearly all the time. On Thursday night, between eight and nine o'clock, I attempted to get out an engine to haul some stock, and I thought it was useless to attempt it without first seeing whether they would allow us to haul it. Mr. Watt told me in the office that they would allow us to haul the stock; but when I got among them they didn't seem very favorable to allowing it. So we talked to them some time, and at last they agreed that we could haul the stock. I brought the engine out myself; but before I could get her across Twenty-eighth street four or five hundred called out to me and hallowed--called out to me to take her back; but I got her across Twenty-eighth street, and, after talking to them, they got quiet, and agreed that I could haul the stock, provided a committee could go on the engine to see that we would not haul anything else. I then got two engineers, one to fire the engine, and one to run it, and they took the stock up that night; but a little later in the night a Pan Handle train came along, and that raised a terrible howl there about the stock, and they cut the engine loose; but at last they let the stock go as far as Lawrenceville, and then we got an engine to haul it away. In fact, they went along on the train.
Q. What complaints did the men make in your conversations with them?
A. They complained about the double-headers; that they would take a great many of them off; that it would take their work away at any rate, and they thought they might as well fight it.
Q. Were you in the round-house on Saturday night?
A. I was.
Q. Were you present when the firing occurred on Saturday afternoon?
A. No; I went home at six o'clock in the morning to take some sleep. I then went to the round-house between seven and eight o'clock. When I got there the soldiers were just entering. After they had got themselves stationed there, it was not long until the outside parties commenced firing into the round-house.
Q. With what?
A. With musketry.
Q. The rioters?
A. Yes; between eleven and twelve o'clock that night. There was a board pile between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-seventh streets, and a good many of them got in behind that, and they just rattled volley after volley into the round-house. I was standing there; but I thought it was too hot, and went to the other side. I then remained in the round-house until about twelve o'clock, and then told an officer that I would go out. He said I had better see General Brinton first, that I might do him some good. I saw General Brinton; but he had nothing to say, and I said nothing to him. I started to go out the back way of the carpenter shop; but there was a lot of rioters there, and we thought that it would not be safe, so we came on back to where the superintendent's office stood, and he proposed that I might go out the gate at Twenty-sixth street, and that he would tell his soldiers not to fire on me. The firing was going on at Twenty-sixth street. I got out then and went on home.
Q. Were you molested by the rioters?
A. Not then; but on Friday night or Saturday morning, between twelve and one o'clock, we were getting out two passenger engines to go east. It was not my business to know what the engines were going to haul. I got orders to get them out, and I went out in the street then and got two engineers and firemen, but a man came in and gave us to understand that the engines couldn't go, and I knew it was no use to argue the point with them, because there were four or five hundred of them there on Twenty-eighth street.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was that man a railroader?
A. Not at that time. I believe he had been suspended. He is in the work-house now. Then we had two engines coming west on the fast line that same night, and we cut one engine off and took the accommodation engine at Wall's, and let the accommodation engine bring the train in, and let the other engine go back to Altoona; but we found they had her blocked. I went to Twenty-eighth street, and they were pretty noisy at that time. Some of them came to me, and asked what kind of a hand I was taking in the matter. I told them I was not taking any more hand in it than I ought to, and they told me if I didn't get out right quick they would shoot me so full of holes that I couldn't get away. I found it was pretty hot, and I got away. On Friday morning, when the troops came there, there was not over twenty or thirty men at Twenty-eighth street. They seemed to go away, but after that, of course, they commenced gathering in groups, and I noticed the troops were not there very long until they were among them themselves. I noticed that morning, before I went home, that they were walking together in the street, our own men and the soldiers. I thought there was no use for those soldiers there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What morning was that?
A. Saturday morning.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What troops were those?
A. The Pittsburgh troops. I was there Thursday night and Friday night and Saturday night until one o'clock.
Q. At Twenty-eighth street, were the same men there all the time from Thursday until Saturday--until the firing of the troops?
A. Yes; they were nearly about the same crowd. Of course, the crowd increased. On Friday night four or five thousand of them were there, but the crowd was orderly, and I never saw them molest anybody unless you wanted to do something--then they would drive you back.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Would it have been possible for the police to have made any arrests at that time?
A. I went out and looked at the crowd. I looked over the crowd and I thought if there were any police there they could have arrested the whole of them.
Q. Could a force of fifty good police have dispersed the mob?
A. They could on Thursday afternoon, when the first double-header was stopped. I think only about from twenty to twenty-five men were interfering with that train at all. It was just this way: I stood and looked on, but I had nothing to do with it. It was daylight, and I was on at night. There were four police on each engine, and a road foreman was on an engine, and the engineers and firemen, but they didn't seem to pull her out. I didn't see anybody with anything in their hands, but was informed that there were parties with links and pins in their hands, ready to throw in case they did start.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know of any engineers or firemen being driven off their engines when there were policemen with them on the train?
A. I cannot say that I do. They got off, though.
Q. Did the police get off too?
A. They did, yes.
Q. You didn't see them driven off?
A. No, they hooted and hallooed a good bit.
Q. They got off--no links were thrown and no assaults were made?
A. Not when I was looking.
Q. How many police were on the engines?
A. Four on the first, and I think four on the second.
Q. They got off on account of the threats?
A. That is the only reason I would know for their getting off.
* * * * *
C. A. Fife, sworn with uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You are the son of Sheriff Fife?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you in the sheriff's office on Thursday, the 19th of July?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any call upon the sheriff during that day for assistance in putting down the disturbance at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Not during that day, I do not think.
Q. During the evening?
A. I believe so, but I was not home.
Q. You were not out with him?
A. No.
Q. Were you out with him on Friday?
A. I was at Union depot on Friday.
Q. Was there any disturbance there?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you out on Saturday?
A. Yes.
Q. At what time?
A. I was there when the militia went out, in the afternoon.
Q. Were you a member of the sheriff's posse?
A. Yes.
Q. Tell us what occurred there?
A. We walked into the crowd. The crowd would open for us to walk in, and then close around us.
Q. At what point was that?
A. Twenty-eighth street.
Q. The militia were immediately in your rear.
A. Yes.
Q. What did the sheriff say to the crowd?
A. He asked them to disperse.
Q. What response did they make?
A. I cannot say that. They hooted, and hallooed, and used vile language, and threw stones.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They did not disperse?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who were the stones thrown at?
A. Both at the militia and us, but I cannot say exactly.
Q. Were any guns or pistols fired at you?
A. I heard pistol shots, but cannot say who they were fired at.
Q. Before the firing from the soldiers?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any command given to fire?
A. Not that I heard.
Q. Where were you during Saturday night, after the shooting?
A. I was around through town here--no place in particular.
Q. Were you at your home?
A. Yes; then I was out on the hill above Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Was there anybody that offered violence to you?
A. No.
Q. Was any attempt made to burn the house of the sheriff?
A. I did not see anybody there, but I heard that there had been parties at the house.
Q. You saw nobody there?
A. I did not get home until near morning. I was out on the hill at Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Were any threats made that you heard?
A. I did not hear any, but I heard of them.
Q. Did you assist on Saturday in raising that posse?
A. I tried to get some parties.
Q. What efforts did you make?
A. I asked several parties to go out with us.
Q. What replies did you get?
A. I was refused wherever I asked anybody.
Q. What class of men did you call on?
A. I do not exactly remember now who I did ask--parties I would see around the court-house.
Q. You did not succeed in getting anybody?
A. No.
At this point the committee adjourned until to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.
ORPHANS' COURT ROOM, PITTSBURGH, Tuesday, February 12, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock, A.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was:
* * * * *
Alexander E. McCandless, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. On Centre avenue, in this city.
Q. What is your profession?
A. I am a physician.
Q. State whether you were connected with the fire department last July?
A. I was a fire commissioner.
Q. What are the duties of the fire commissioners?
A. They are elected by city councils to take care of the fire department, and to elect the force, and to run it, and they have general supervision over the expenditure of the money.
Q. Do they control the movements of the fire department in case of a fire?
A. We have a chief engineer for that purpose.
Q. What was done by the fire department during the riot for the purpose of protecting the city or railroad companies' property from fire?
A. The first alarm of fire was struck about eleven o'clock on Saturday night, after the cars were set fire to. The fire department responded as soon as the alarm was struck, and started out to the fire, No. 7 engine, I believe, being the first on the way. At that time, I was on top of the hill overlooking the outer depot. I heard the alarm struck, and I heard the engine start, and then I heard the shouts of the mob, and could hear the gong of the engine as it was running. I then heard the engine stop, and could hear the oaths of the men all distinctly. Afterwards I went down into the crowd, and as the other engines came up, I saw them stopped by the mob there, who swore that if we did lay any hose, they would cut the hose, and shoot the drivers, and all that kind of a thing. The mob would not allow the fire department to put a drop of water on the company's property, and all that night we did not get to throw any. The following night when private property caught fire they allowed us to throw water on it, and did not interfere.
Q. Was private property protected pretty generally?
A. As well as it could be done, but it was so extensive that we could not protect it altogether; we had the force of the fire department cut down on account of the appropriations not being sufficient to run it a short time before that, and the result was that we were short of men.
Q. Was the private property fired by the mob, or did it catch from the railroad company's fire?
A. I cannot state that of my own knowledge.
Q. What seemed to be the disposition of the mob?
A. They were wild--perfectly mad, and appeared to want to burn everything or anything, especially the railroad property.
Q. This is Saturday night you speak of?
A. That evening--Saturday evening--we did not get to throw any water. But the chief engineer can give fuller details than I can about that.
Q. Did you call on the mayor for protection in any way for your fire department?
A. Not personally, but the chief of the department, I think, did.
Q. Was the fire department protected by the police?
A. No.
Q. During Saturday night or the day of Sunday?
A. Not that I know of. We were the only department that kept up any organization in this city at that time.
Q. You say you did keep up your organization?
A. Yes, perfectly, and we followed the line of the fire all the way down Liberty street clear to Union depot.
Q. During the entire riot you preserved your organization?
A. Yes. I was attacked once near the grain elevator. I was directing a stream of water on the hotel opposite, and they thought I wanted to put water on the elevator, and they attacked me; but I got away, as I was on horseback.
Q. If your fire department had been protected by the police, could you have controlled the fire?
A. We could at the inception of it--when they started burning the cars. Only one car was lit at that time.
Q. The fire department, you say, is under the control of a chief engineer?
A. Yes; he has supreme control of the fire department, and in case of a large fire he is assisted by the commissioners.
Q. Is he subject to the order of the mayor?
A. No; he is not. He has nothing to do with the mayor.
Q. He is subject to the orders of the commissioners?
A. Yes; he is directed by them, but he has supreme control of the fire department. If he wants the assistance of the commissioners he sends an alarm for them.
Q. In case the fire department needs protection, to whom ought you to look for that protection?
A. I suppose to the head of the police department of the city.
Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether any demand was made upon the chief of police for protection?
A. Not of my own knowledge.
Q. Is the fire department a paid department?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see the fire when it first started?
A. I saw the first of it--the first torch applied to the first car.
Q. Where was that car standing?
A. Beyond the round-house. And I thought they had an engine up there. They would fire one car and start it, and fire another car and start it, and fire another car and start it.
Q. Can you give us the street where it was?
A. I think they were all above Twenty-eighth street--the cars that were started.
Q. You thought they had an engine to start the cars?
A. I thought so--either that or a large gang of men. They started so rapidly.
Q. When those cars came down, where did they stop after they were started?
A. They came down--the whole yard was packed with cars down below the round-house, and they had the switches so arranged that they ran down to the round-house. They were trying to burn out the soldiers. It was very plain what their motive was.
Q. The motive, at first, was not to destroy the railroad company's property, but to burn out the soldiers?
A. That was the motive, to my mind, as I viewed it from the hill.
Q. What were those first cars loaded with?
A. I cannot tell that.
Q. With oil?
A. No; they were freight cars first that were fired. Afterwards they started the oil cars down.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. As the fire progressed on Sunday morning, what seemed to be the motive?
A. It was general destruction then. They started the oil cars early Sunday morning.
Q. What time did the troops get out of the round-house?
A. I did not see them come out. I only know from newspaper reports.
Q. Did you see the mob as it approached the depot with torches, and the burning of Union depot?
A. No; I was at work on another part of the fire.
Q. How large was the mob during Sunday?
A. It would be hard to form an estimate. It was an immense crowd, for squares on Liberty street, breaking cars open and stealing--ten thousand or fifteen thousand anyway--just streaming back over the hill, taking the things away. Thousands of them were carrying away everything imaginable, and going to the south side with them. They passed my house--crowds of them.
Q. Who were ahead--the men with the torches or the plundering posse?
A. The torches were first.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In what manner did the mob interfere with your men?
A. They would not let them get to the fire.
Q. They stopped your men?
A. Yes; they just got ahead in front of the horses and caught the horses by the head, and swore they would shoot the drivers if they would go any further.
Q. But they did not assault your men?
A. They interfered in every way they could. One of our men caught a man going along with a sword-cane punching holes in the hose, and he knocked him down, and took it away from him. They have that cane now.
Q. Did you not have one of your fire engines in position to play on the fire when the police offered to protect you from the mob, but your men did not then play on the fire?
A. The chief engineer can tell you that. I was not present when that occurred.
* * * * *
Samuel M. Evans, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At 190 Fourth avenue.
Q. What was your official connection with the fire department in July last?
A. I was the chief engineer.
Q. How long have you occupied that position?
A. Since last May. I was the assistant chief for two years, and the engineer of a company before that, and the foreman of a company before that. I then resigned for sometime, and was then elected engineer afterwards, and was then elected assistant chief engineer, and then elected chief.
Q. State when the first alarm of fire was given?
A. On Saturday night, about eleven o'clock.
Q. From whence did the fire proceed--what part of the city?
A. The corner of Twenty-sixth and Penn streets--it was there the box struck.
Q. What did you do?
A. When the alarm came I was in bed. They fetched my wagon to me, and I went out there, and when I got to Eleventh street--driving there--they got in my way--certain parties--and called out: "You son of a bitch, don't lay any hose--you son of a bitch." But I said to them, "you can go to hell;" and I started on. It was on the street, and I went at a pretty rapid gait. When I got out as far as the "Independent" house, Mr. Coates, one of the fire commissioners, said to me: "Sam, drive in here, quick." I drove then into the engine house, and then went to Twenty-eighth and Liberty streets where the mob was. I looked up and saw the fire. It was a car--it appeared to be an oil tank car. At first, No. 7 was between Twenty-second and Twenty-third streets on the right side of Penn, in the gutter. They had no fire in the engine, and I said: "Where's your fire?" And they told me they had put a pistol to the head of the fireman, and made him draw the fire. I told the engineer then to turn her around and take her down to the house and to fire up again. They went to the house, and I told them to stand there so as to be ready to go into service if we could get into service. Then they came up with a big gun on wheels--a cannon--pulling it along on the street. After they got up to where a few hose carriages were, they came to Twenty-third street--and I said, "what is the matter?" And all they said was to point the gun at us and said: "If you don't get out of that we'll blow you to hell." I said we had better come down here than go there. While I was standing there, an alarm came from East Liberty. I went out there, and when I went out there I thought probably it was the stock-yards, but I found it was a solitary house away down on Negley's run, a mile or a mile and a half from the railroad. Then I told the engine company at East Liberty to stay there in case they would burn Mr. Pitcairn's house, or set the stock-yards on fire, and that we would manage to get along without them. So they did not come in. Then I came in, and I think at eight minutes after three it was, when they sent a signal in that the fire was out. There was a big crowd on Liberty street, and somebody asked me to let them lay a line of hose to save Mr. Hardie's stable, and some property belonging to Mr. Denny. I told the foreman then of hose company No. 1, to lay a line of hose up Liberty street from Thirty-first street, and that if any stables got on fire, or any private property, to throw water on it. Then four men stopped me with guns, and asked me what I was going to do, and I said I was going to lay a line of hose; and they said, not a God damned line of hose. But I said to them that I was going to save private property, and then they said, that I could throw water on that, "but that if you throw any water on the company's fire we will shoot you and cut your hose," and everything else. While coming in they were carrying goods away from the cars. Everybody you would see, had a bundle on their shoulders or their heads.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What time of night was this?
A. Between three and four o'clock in the morning. I came down to Twenty-third street, but we could not go into service at all. They were shooting at that time out of the machine shop and the round-house.
Q. Who were shooting?
A. The soldiers, and the others were shooting out of the board pile.
Q. Firing at the round-house?
A. Yes; they took this gun and planted it in the street to shoot into the round-house, and these men in the round-house, when they would go to sight this gun, would shoot them. They had this gun loaded with links and pins belonging to the railroad company. After the fire started, I think it could have been stopped before it set the round-house on fire. I think at that time it could have been stopped, because in the morning, about six or seven o'clock, they commenced running down the wall--a crowd of them--and then pushed the cars up along the Allegheny Valley track, and when they would come to a car afire--one man I noticed particularly jump up on a car, and stop it alongside of another car afire. Then when it would catch fire they would open the brakes, and let it go down to the round-house. Then they threw something out of the round-house, and stopped the cars there, and then they got to throwing water out of the round-house on the cars. I was down on the corner of Twenty-third street when two rough looking customers came down, and asked me where the place to stop the water off was. They said they are throwing water out of the round-house. I told them to go to the head of Twenty-sixth street on Liberty, and that they would see a big iron plate in the middle of the street, and that they should lift that up, and put their hands down and stop it off. They said they will pick us off, and they wanted to know if there was no place in Penn street to stop the water off. I said no.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You knew they could not stop it off?
A. Yes; I knew they were rioters, and if they went where I told them they would shoot them, perhaps.
Q. You did not give the information for the purpose of getting the water stopped off.
A. No; I knew that they could not stop it off.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were these two men strangers?
A. Yes.
Q. You are very well acquainted about Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. Did this crowd--all of them--seem to be citizens?
A. Some of them did, and some did not.
Q. What were the citizens doing?
A. Standing there--a great many of them--but they were afraid to speak or to do anything for fear of getting hurt--those that felt like stopping it. A good many were arrested. I saw the "black maria" very busy taking men down to the station-house, and I asked the policemen how many were arrested, and they said one hundred and thirty or one hundred and forty, for stealing, and in the morning I asked a man what they did with them, and he said that the mayor had fined them three dollars and costs, and let them go. I said they were all thieves, and he said that nobody was there to identify the property. I said it was not necessary to identify stolen property.
Q. Did he get the three dollars out of them?
A. That is what the policeman said--three dollars and costs.
Q. He did not let them go until he got that?
A. That is what he told me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What time was the round-house set on fire?
A. About seven o'clock in the morning.
Q. How was it fired?
A. From cars on the Allegheny Valley railroad.
Q. Is that on Liberty street?
A. Yes; the track is on top of the wall until you come to a little piece on this side of Twenty-sixth street, and then it comes down and gets level with the payment--between Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth streets it begins to get on a level with the payment. These cars were stopped between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-seventh streets. One fireman told me--a fireman of Engine Company 8, in Philadelphia--that he got the water ready to throw, or was handling the line, when he said there was a car loaded with liquor in it burning, and it ran down into the cellar of the round-house, or the shop on the other side, and that that was what drove them out so that they could not do anything. When that liquor, burning, ran down into the cellar, it set the buildings on fire.
Q. Did any of your engines play on the fire on the railroad?
A. No; they would not let us. And we had as much as we could do after the fire started. As fast as the fire would come along we would move the engines down.
Q. How many engines had you?
A. Eleven of my own, and the chief engineer of Allegheny came over and fetched me three.
Q. They would not allow you to play on the railroad property.
A. No.
Q. Did you ask protection from the mayor?
A. I do not know that I saw him but once. He and Roger O'Mara came up Penn street in a buggy, and turned out Liberty, and then O'Mara came back some way without the mayor.
Q. Did you ask for protection?
A. No; I did not see anybody to ask.
Q. Do you know of any protection given to you by the police?
A. No protection at all, sir. If I could have got protection when I first went out to the fire, we could have kept the other cars from burning. We could have pulled them away sufficiently far to stop the oil tanks from setting any of the rest afire, and kept them cooled off.
Q. Do you think that the police force of the city could have protected you so that you could have played on the fire?
A. If they had not been demoralized, they could. If they had had a police like the New York police, they could have kept the crowd back.
Q. How many men would it have taken to protect you sufficiently?
A. After the fire got started, it would have taken right smart, but before that I think that one hundred and fifty or two hundred men could have stopped the whole thing, because police can do more than soldiers.
Q. We have testimony that the police offered to give protection to one engine?
A. Let the police come up and name the engine. I saw that in the papers.
Q. Do you know the parties referred to?
A. Motts and Goldsmith. They came out in the papers and said they went to one man named Kennedy, and told them that they would give protection, but I went and asked them, and they said that they never came to them at all.
Q. These gentlemen will testify to that?
A. Yes; I can have them at any time at all. I will fetch them to you. None of them came to me; and I am the proper person to come to for a purpose of that kind.
By Senator Reyburn.
Q. Were you about on Thursday or Friday?
A. No.
Q. You say that a couple of hundred or one hundred and fifty policemen could have driven the crowd back?
A. On Saturday, one hundred and fifty policemen, well armed, and staying together, could have moved the crowd away so that they could have moved the trains.
Q. But you were not there?
A. Not until Saturday night, when the alarm was given.
Q. On Saturday and Sunday morning, when you were there, were the police doing anything to prevent the pillaging?
A. After I came back from East Liberty, I saw the police arresting people for stealing. The "black maria" was busy taking them down to the station--the Twelfth ward station--and then running them down to the Central station.
Q. From what you saw, do you think it would have been possible for the police to have stopped it?
A. It would have been impossible for what was there to have stopped the mob. They could catch the people when carrying things off.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you a witness before the grand jury?
A. No; this is the first time I have been called upon.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Did you see any of the soldiers?
A. Yes; about the round-house. As soon as the soldiers went out of the round-house we went into service, and kept right on then. We could not go into service before, because they were firing both from the round-house and from the board-pile--the rioters.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When the soldiers came out of the round-house, did they come out in ranks?
A. Yes. As soon as they came down on to Penn street, I noticed a squad on each side watching the houses and buildings and alleys, and the men with the Gatling gun were watching behind.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were they well handled and marching orderly, or were they demoralized?
A. No. They marched out orderly. You could not have told from the way they looked that anything was the matter. I expected to see them come out and run every way, and I was astonished. When they began coming out everybody ran from them, but when they saw them come out in good order, and keep in a good line, then they began to stand still again--the people did.
* * * * *
Samuel A. Muckle, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the Twenty-third ward, Pittsburgh, at the present time.
Q. Where were you residing in July last?
A. In the Fourth ward, Allegheny city.
Q. What business were you engaged in all that time?
A. No business at all at that time. I was employed by the railroad before that.
Q. What position did you hold on the railroad before that?
A. Conductor.
Q. Of what road?
A. The Pan Handle.
Q. Passenger or freight?
A. Freight, at that time.
Q. Was there any pre-arranged plan among the railroad men for a strike?
A. None that I know of--if you speak of the strike that occurred in July.
Q. Yes?
A. None that I know of.
Q. Was there any arrangement being made among the men for a strike to take place then or any other time?
A. We had an organization here at that time, called the Trainmen's Union. Of course, if I have to answer all these questions, I am willing to answer them, if they do not conflict with this organization. Of course, I went into that organization, and I am under an obligation.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Oath bound?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. It is a secret organization?
A. So far as our own business is concerned.
Q. As far as you can, you will give us what information you have upon the causes of this riot, and whether it was pre-arranged among the men?
A. The organization is not in existence to-day, but I still feel myself duty bound to the organization. I will answer this. There was a union called the Trainmen's Union--an organization--and there was a talk of a strike in June. It was to have taken place on the 27th day of June. That fell through, and with the strike in July, we had no business of that kind.
Q. What induced the men to arrange for a strike on the 27th of June?
A. This organization was gotten up for the benefit of the railroad men--for their own protection--for to protect them in anything that might be brought up.
Q. What class of railroad men?
A. The transportation department entirely.
Q. Including conductors and brakemen?
A. Yes; and engineers and firemen.
Q. Did it include any passenger conductors and brakemen?
A. Yes.
Q. The whole?
A. Yes; when I speak of transportation, I include the whole transportation department.
Q. Was it the ten per cent. reduction made on the 1st of June that induced the men to arrange for that strike?
A. I do not know that it was positively that, more than some other grievances that might be brought up. It was organized more for the protection of ourselves in any grievances that might be brought up. Of course, the ten per cent. would be included.
Q. Were there any other grievances except that ten per cent. reduction?
A. Not at that time.
Q. Had the men any grievances or complaints to make outside of that, when it was talked of that a strike should take place on the 27th of June?
A. I believe there were.
Q. What were they?
A. In regard to the classification of engineers and the amount of pay they received, &c.; that was something I did not particularly understand at that time.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The object of the brotherhood was to abolish this classification?
A. The object was to protect themselves.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They considered this grading unjust?
A. Yes; they considered it unjust, which it certainly was.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You did not organize a strike for the 27th of June in regard to any future grievance.
A. No.
Q. It was the ten per cent. reduction and the classification of engines that induced you to arrange that strike for the 27th of June?
A. Yes.
Q. In arranging for a strike, what did the railroad men propose to do--stop all trains--just simply quit work?
A. In case of their striking, they simply proposed quitting work themselves--standing still or going to their homes, or wherever they wished to go. I never heard of any arrangement made as to what they would do.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were any resolutions passed in your body to stop trains?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were there any resolutions to interfere with the men who desired to work?
A. No.
Q. You said it fell through. What broke off that arrangement to strike on the 27th of June?
A. It was because it was generally thought it was not solid enough; it was not worked in the right way.
Q. How extensive was the arrangement--how wide did it extend?
A. I did not think it was very extensive; at least, I did not think it was very solid.
Q. Do you know how many organizations this Trainmen's Union had in existence--how many lodges?
A. I am not prepared to say; I do not know.
Q. Did it include all the trunk lines?
A. I think it did.
Q. Did it include all the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company?
A. It included all those who joined the order.
Q. What other roads?
A. Most all the roads out of Pittsburgh; in fact, I guess all the other main roads.
Q. Where did that union originate?
A. I believe in Pittsburgh.
Q. When was it abandoned?
A. Previous to the strike.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Then there was no organization at the time of the strike.
A. No; we had no meeting for some time previous to the strike.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. For how long previous?
A. Not within a week, and that was very small. The meeting called last was called without the approval of the right party in this union. His attention was called to a poster struck up on a telegraph pole by a certain party, and I rather think it was put up just as a burlesque in the first place. There had not been a regular meeting for some time previous to the strike.
Q. Can you tell what induced them to abandon the union?
A. I have my own idea, but I don't know whether I am right. My impression always was that the railroad men, in connection with the Trainmen's Union, were afraid to attempt it for fear of being discharged from the road. I claim it was lack of nerve on the part of the men. I was discharged myself after the first trainmen's meeting I ever attended, and I am satisfied I would still be a union man if there had been any men with me.
Q. When did you first learn of the strike on Thursday, July 19?
A. In the neighborhood of eleven o'clock, in the forenoon.
Q. Had you any intimation of it before that?
A. Not in the least. In fact I was surprised, and I didn't believe such a thing was going on until I walked to Twenty-eighth street, and saw it to be a fact.
Q. When you got there who did you find there?
A. A few railroad men, and I believe a few policemen were there, and some citizens.
Q. How many railroad men were there?
A. I cannot tell you that--I suppose twenty or thirty or forty or fifty. A great many of those men I didn't know.
Q. What road were those men working on at that time?
A. I think the majority of them belonged to the Pennsylvania railroad.
Q. What were they doing?
A. They didn't appear to be doing anything. They just appeared to be standing around talking.
Q. Was there any effort made to move any trains while you were there?
A. Not at that time.
Q. Were any made in your presence?
A. Not just in my presence. I believe they undertook--that is only hearsay--but I could see from Twenty-eighth street down towards where they started the trains west of Twenty-eighth street, and I think on Friday I saw a few engines apparently coupled to trains. Whether they intended to go out is more than I can tell of my own knowledge. I know they didn't go out.
Q. Did you see anybody try to start a train on Thursday?
A. No, sir; I didn't see anybody try to start a train during the trouble.
Q. Were you there during Thursday night?
A. I was not there during any night.
Q. What was the object of the men assembling at that point?
A. From the understanding I had from the men, after talking with a few of the men, it was that they had struck against the double-headers.
Q. Were those men members of the Trainmen's union?
A. Some of them.
Q. Why were they assembled in force on the track?
A. That is more than I can tell what their motive was.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What did they say about it?
A. Nothing particularly--nothing more than that they had struck.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you talk with them?
A. I talked with some few of the men I knew.
Q. Did you admonish them that it was wrong to be assembled in such large numbers there?
A. No.
Q. Was anything said about that?
A. Not that I know of. I was not in a very good humor just as I got up there. I had been insulted just before I reached Twenty-eighth street.
Q. By whom?
A. By Mr. Watt. When I reached there there were only a few of those parties that I knew.
Q. The Trainmen's Union, at that time, was not in existence?
A. They had not had a meeting for some time previous.
Q. Did they have any meetings after that?
A. Not that I know of.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was the organization formally disbanded?
A. It just died out. They had no meetings called of the order.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When did this union start, to your knowledge?
A. It was about the latter part of May, I think, or the 1st of June.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. As a member of the organization, what action would your organization have taken in reference to that unlawful assemblage there?
A. My idea is that they would have discountenanced anything of the kind--any burning, or pillaging, or anything of that kind.
Q. Or any interference with trains?
A. That is more than I can tell. I cannot tell anything about what men will do after getting started.
Q. Would your organization have any means of disciplining the members of it who interfered with the movements of the trains?
A. Most certainly. Our order had a head.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You mean to say, in your organization, according to the rules and regulations of it, if they struck, they passed resolutions that no trains should go out?
A. I didn't say anything of the kind.
Q. Was it the intention of the men to interfere with the movement of the trains?
A. Not to the best of my knowledge. I never heard any such resolution, and I never heard any person speak of it that way.
Q. Do you know any of the men that did interfere with the movement of the trains who belonged to the union?
[Witness did not answer.]
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In that arrangement to strike on the 27th of June--how extensive was that strike to be--how far was it to extend--what roads was it to include?
A. It included the roads running out of Pittsburgh, so far as I know.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. What roads are they?
A. The Pennsylvania railroad, the Pan-Handle, the Fort Wayne and Chicago, the Allegheny Valley, and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
Q. Was the Baltimore and Ohio not included?
A. I cannot say particularly.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was your organization notified of this strike that took place on Thursday, the 19th?
A. No, sir; no more than what I told you, that I was met on the corner of Eleventh street, near the Rush house, and told of it, in the neighborhood of eleven o'clock.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You said you were discharged on account of being a union man?
A. I am positive of it--at least the message I received bore nearly about the same words, but not just in that way.
Q. That, of course, was a grievance?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did your Trainmen's Union include the employés of the Baltimore and Ohio road?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that strike in pursuance of an arrangement made in your union?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Was that formally communicated to your union here--the strike that occurred there?
A. No; nothing more than hearsay on the street.
Q. Did the members of your union make any effort to have those parties disperse and go to their homes during Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?
A. Not that I know of--no more than I did myself.
Q. What did you do in relation to it?
A. I did take some men out of the crowd at Twenty-eighth street, men that belonged to the Pan-Handle road. At Twenty-eighth street, that day, I was met by this Watt. He says to me, I want you to leave this property. Watt was the man; but I didn't know him only by sight. I thought, of course, he was an employé of the company. He said, I want you to leave the company's ground, and I asked him who he was. He replied that it didn't make any difference who he was, that he knew who I was, and my motive for being there. I said if he knew my motive he knew my business better than I did, for I hardly knew myself what I was there for. And after trying to give me a bluff, as I call it, that he was Mr. Watt, and employed by the road, I went up towards Twenty-eighth street, and there understood that they were going to send for what they called the Pan Handle roughs to head this trouble. I knew the great majority of those men--between eighty and a hundred of them were discharged off the Pan Handle road, and had been discharged prior to this strike. The majority of them were in town; some had left town; but a great many of them were here, and they were pretty lucky if they could get one meal a day. I didn't want to see any of them get into further trouble, and when I heard this I was afraid that some of those men would enter into this thing through persuasion. I went to them singly, and took some half a dozen out of the crowd, one at a time, and told them not to have anything to do with the affair. I said, I have been discharged from the Pan Handle, and you, and there will be nothing in this of any benefit at all. I took out six or eight men from different parties that had belonged to the Pan Handle railroad.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What did they mean by sending for the Pan Handle roughs?
A. They thought that a few men of that road were rougher than anybody else, or had more pluck. I don't know--it was a rumor I heard.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Those men you spoke to went with you willingly out of the crowd?
A. Yes.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you on the ground of the Pennsylvania railroad, or on public ground?
A. It was on their ground. I was walking right up the track. After this man was going to bounce me, I walked up to Twenty-eighth street, and I told him I thought I would have the privilege of standing there on the street.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What do you mean by bouncing you?
A. Why, if I had weakened a little, I suppose he would have thrown me off.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you there during the day, Sunday?
A. I was not. I was not on the ground at all after Saturday evening--after one of our engineers was wounded very badly. I helped to carry him up Liberty street on a shutter. I was not on the ground afterwards.
Q. Did you see any considerable number of the Pan-Handle men or employés in the crowd?
A. Not a great many.
Q. Who seemed to be the leaders of the crowd?
A. That is more than I can tell you.
Q. What business are you engaged in now?
A. Not any.
Q. Do you reside in the city?
A. Yes.
Q. You are still out of employment?
A. Yes; and likely to remain out so long as some of these men hold their positions on the roads.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What position did you hold in this organization?
A. I was the president.
Q. You know nothing of this organization being in existence at that time on any roads except those that ran out of Pittsburgh?
A. At which time?
Q. At the time the strike was contemplated, in June?
A. They might have been contemplating such a thing, but the organization at that time, in June, was not so extensive as it got to be afterwards.
Q. Then it did increase afterwards and extend?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whether it did exist on other roads in June?
A. I don't know.
Q. You think it started here and spread?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say it started here?
A. Yes; I believe so. It was first organized here.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Were you here at its birth?
A. Yes; and I have no objection either as to being at the first meeting.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was it beneficial?
A. It had not got that far along, but it would have been, probably.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was it the object of this organization to control the railroad companies, as to wages and running regulations?
A. The object, no doubt, of the organization was to protect themselves, no matter what grievances might be brought up, if based on good authority. The union would attend to them in its own way, whatever it might be.
Q. In what way did they propose to protect themselves?
A. That would have to be brought up before the order before they could tell that.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Then there was no definite plan by which the railroad companies were to be controlled or coerced into coming to terms with the union?
A. No.
Q. That was left to be determined as circumstances might arise?
A. That is it exactly.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You said, a while ago, that this last meeting you spoke of was not regularly called?
A. No.
Q. You would have been the proper person to call it?
A. Yes.
Q. It was not done at your instance?
A. If it had been called it would have been through me. I had nothing to do with this poster on the telegraph pole; but after being on the pole for a half day, I concluded, rather than dupe the men, to let them meet, but nothing was done.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Do you know how many members of this organization there were in Pittsburgh at the time of the contemplated strike in June?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know how many divisions there were in this city?
A. No.
Q. Have you any idea?
A. In Pittsburgh?
Q. Yes?
A. Three or four in Pittsburgh--three, I think.
Q. How many members belonged to the division you were connected with?
A. That is a question I cannot answer--I cannot tell.
Q. Can you give an approximate estimate of the number in Pittsburgh, at that time?
A. Four or five hundred.
Q. Was there not an understanding in the union, that whenever there were differences between the train men and the railroad companies, that the railroad companies were to be brought to terms by the members of the union, by striking on some particular day, without any notice to the companies, so that all traffic would be stopped?
A. I don't know of anything of that kind.
Q. Was there not some such talk, that that would be the most effectual way of bringing the companies to terms?
A. There was a great deal of wild talk among the men.
Q. There was no such proposal made in the union?
A. No.
Q. And no definite plan was adopted by the union to act upon the railroad companies in any way?
A. No.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. When any men wanted to become members of the organization, did they have to pay any initiation fees or dues?
A. They would have had to in course of time, but, up to that time, it was more a charitable institution than anything else. Anybody that had five cents or a quarter, and wanted to give it, could give it.
Q. There was no specific sum at that time?
A. No.
Q. Nor since?
A. The union is not in existence.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What do you mean by a strike--a railroad strike--what is the usual custom--what do you mean by it?
A. What I have always understood by a strike, is the men quitting work.
Q. You understand that they are all to quit?
A. Most undoubtedly.
Q. For the purpose of stopping traffic--the running of trains?
A. If that would stop it--most undoubtedly.
Q. Is it customary, in railroad strikes, for the men who quit work, to stop others from working, by violence or otherwise?
A. I have never seen it--by violence.
Q. Only by persuasion?
A. Only by persuasion. I have heard about a great many men being stopped, but, if our railroad men would get up and testify--I have heard railroad men claim that they wanted to work, but there was not one of them, that was not in the mire just as deep, while the thing was going on.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You mean the trainmen?
A. Certainly.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What class of men did you take into your organization?
A. Men belonging to the transportation department.
Q. No outsiders--no mill men?
A. I believe not.
Q. Had you a constitution and by-laws?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you got them in your possession?
A. I have not.
Q. Who has?
A. That is more than I can say.
Q. You don't know.
A. No.
Q. Have you a copy of them?
A. I have not.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Can you give us the names of any men that would be willing to appear before our committee, and give information about the strike or their grievances?
A. Yes; an engineer by the name of John Hassler, residing on Wood street, the second or third door to the left of Bidwell. I think he would be an important witness; also, an engineer by the name of William Robb. He lives in the lower part of Allegheny somewhere, but I cannot tell his residence exactly.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You say that the union does not exist now. Do you know of any other organization that is organized to produce the same effect.
A. No; no more than what has always been in existence. The locomotive engineers, of course, have their union.
* * * * *
G. Gilbert Follensbee, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In Pittsburgh.
Q. Where is your place of business?
A. On Fifth avenue--No. 42.
Q. What is it?
A. I am in the clothing business.
Q. In company with some other gentlemen, did you call on the mayor during the disturbance in July last; and, if so, give us the circumstances?
A. On the evening of the 21st of July, (Saturday,) between seven and eight o'clock, I heard that parties had got into some gun stores, and I went to my friend Mr. Bown, and then found Mr. Edward Myers; and after talking a while, we thought it would be prudent to see the mayor, and tell him that we thought it would be prudent to get a posse, and come down and protect Mr. Bown's gunshop. We saw the mayor, and said: "You are probably aware that some gun stores have been broken into;" and we implored him to send a posse to protect the gun stores.
Q. What reply did he make?
A. I do not remember his reply, but he seemed to be very indifferent, and I implored him, for God's sake, to do something, and that we three would volunteer, and that probably with fifty men or less we could protect Mr. Bown's store.
Q. Did you offer to be sworn in?
A. I volunteered to be one of the posse.
Q. What reply did he make to that?
A. I do not remember.
Q. Did he say in response to your application--did he say whether he had the policemen or not, or did he make any excuse that he could not raise them?
A. No; I do not think he made any reply in regard to his police. I was aware that his police were small and scattered around the city, and my idea was to have him swear in some of us as special police.
Q. Did he refuse to swear you in as special police?
A. He did not take any action in the matter.
Q. Did he send anybody to the store?
A. Not that I am aware of.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did the mob come there?
A. Yes; Mr. Bown left his store and came to my store, and while there, we heard the mob.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long before the mob came down had you made this call upon the mayor?
A. Two hours, at least--two hours--an hour and a half or two hours. Before the mob got there, I went back to Mr. Bown's store, and asked him if there was no place to secrete the arms, and they took them down into the cellar and vault and secreted a good many of them.
Q. Did you see the mob?
A. Yes; I saw the mob in the store, but not in front of the store, because we had gone in the rear private way. We could see the store full of people--probably one hundred to one hundred and fifty were in the store.
Q. What class of men were they?
A. They did not seem to me to be any particularly riot element, so far as appearances were concerned. They did not look like tramps or roughs.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you suppose they were citizens of Pittsburgh?
A. I suppose so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did they take away any more arms than they wanted themselves?
A. I do not think they left any.
Q. Was there any ammunition in the store?
A. I was so informed.
Q. What was done with that?
A. They took the ammunition too.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was the mayor aware of those arms and that ammunition in the store?
A. It was the most prominent gun store in the city.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Could any force of determined men have stopped the riot?
A. I am only speaking about that gun shop, and I think that from thirty to fifty determined men could have prevented the riot at that place.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were willing to be one of them?
A. I said so.
Q. Did you tell him you wanted a force to guard that gun store?
A. Yes; I said for God's sake do something to protect that gun store. I looked at it this way: That it would be terribly fatal if the mob were to get in and get guns and ammunition.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the major know who you were?
A. Intimately.
Q. You are intimately acquainted with him?
A. Yes.
* * * * *
William H. Bown, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your business?
A. I belong to the firm of James Bown & Son. Our place of business is located on Wood street, and our business is cutlery and guns and revolvers, and all kinds of sportsmen's articles.
Q. Do you keep ammunition, also?
A. Yes; powder and shot and caps and wads.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. Fixed ammunition, also?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What efforts did you make to secure protection during the riot?
A. My father went to see the mayor, with Mr. Follensbee. He went early in the day to Mt. Washington, to see a shooting match. We were not aware of any excitement in the city, but word came to me. In the afternoon I saw a telegraphic dispatch from some one about the mayor. It was the mayor's clerk that brought it down--setting forth that there was a mob organized to break into the different gun stores that evening. I judge between five and six o'clock that came down. He wanted me to remove all our arms. I said that it was so late in the day that I did not know where to place them--that we had a large number, but that, nevertheless, we would try to remove all we possibly could. I then got both the porters and took the arms out of the windows, and a lot of ammunition, cartridges, and cans of powder, and I got some paper and covered over it, to convey the impression to those passing along that we were about cleaning the window, and I left the paper there to disguise it. I had not commenced to take out the arms in the cases. We had two cases that run about sixty feet long. I went to supper, and about six o'clock, when I came back, I found six policemen at the store, but the mayor's clerk came down about seven o'clock, and said they were required at the Central station. Shortly after that father came. He could not get into the front, from the fact that we had the wire across and the screens put up, and I had also gone out and got a couple of scantlings, and put them against the doors, and braced them against the counters. I did not anticipate that they would break in the large glass windows. We had commenced to take down the arms and put them in the magazine, which we have in the cellar, where we keep the powder, and we got down, I should judge about forty, and were kept pretty busy in getting them down, when the large alarm bell struck and I heard the glass go. I came up the stairs, and when I got to the top I found they had knocked the lock off, and I immediately went down, but I could not find the key. I was in my shirt sleeves at the time, but I closed the bolt and put out the gas and came up stairs, and just as I came up I met two parties right at my desk--I had a desk where I do my correspondence--and one of them says, "why in the hell don't you turn up the gas?" I suppose he took me for one of the party who came in. I passed him and went on up stairs, and stayed there until after the racket was over.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where was the mob?
A. On the lower floor; of course they came up stairs, and then I went up to the third floor.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was their manner as to being boisterous or demonstrative?
A. When they came in there, I thought bedlam had broken loose.
Q. What class of men were they?
A. What we term from the south side--I judge workingmen. They would just come to the cases and break them in. A few of them had old muskets.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. That they brought with them?
A. Yes; and one party was very kind, and left his and took a new gun.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. After these policemen were taken up to the central station, did any of them return?
A. That I cannot say, but I understood from those that came in after the mob went away, that they were out there, but the mob was too large for them to handle.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Did the mayor's clerk come down and order those policemen to report?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he take them away from your store?
A. Yes; at that time everything was quiet about the city.
Q. He had notified you that there would be an attempt made?
A. It was reported that there would be an attempt made on the different gun stores.
Q. Yet he took these policemen away?
A. Yes; because at that time there was no excitement at the lower end of the city.
Q. Did they return before you were driven out of the store by the mob?
A. I did not see them; but I cannot say.
Q. But were they ordered back for duty before this mob came?
A. I understood that, but I did not see them. I was in the store at the time, and did not come down, because I thought discretion was the better part of valor.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You saw that dispatch?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was it signed by?
A. I did not notice. I think a fictitious name was to it. I did not notice any name to it, particularly. It was the mayor's clerk. It was late, and all our help had gone off, and the boys had gone to supper, and I was alone, with the two porters.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. How many guns and pistols were taken out of your store?
A. Something over four hundred. They took everything--carving knives, butcher knives, and forks, and ammunition, and cutlery--everything they could take.
* * * * *
E. A. Myers, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At No. 60 Liberty street.
Q. Where is your place of business?
A. No. 145 Wood street.
Q. You are connected with the office of----
A. I am connected with the of the Post.
Q. Relate what occurred when you went to the mayor?
A. I may say that Mr. Bown, senior, came over to my place, and he and Mr. Folensbee went with me up to the mayor, to notify him to send policemen down. After we went there, the mayor at first said he was unable to send any assistance, as the police were scattered through the city, but he would do the best he could. We went to Mr. Johnston's gun shop, a short distance above the mayor's office, and staid there awhile, and came down to the mayor's office, and then walked down to Mr. Bown's establishment, and remained there sometime, without the police coming. Then Mr. Bown and myself went back again, but on the way we met them coming up--we met them coming up--some six or eight of the police--coming; and there were at least six or eight policemen there during the disturbance. The crowd that came up, I don't think, at first numbered over seventy-five or eighty--half grown boys. There seemed to be half a dozen armed with muskets, but a large crowd was collected around the streets.
Q. What effort did the policemen make to drive them back?
A. Nothing, whatever; but they staid there. I spoke to the mayor's clerk; I said there were not enough of them to do anything, but they staid there.
Q. Was the crowd armed when they came there?
A. They apparently had a few muskets and guns with them, as far as I could tell.
Q. Did you offer your services, as a policeman, to the mayor?
A. Not as policeman specially, but I offered to do anything that I could to defend the place--not to the mayor, but to Mr. Bown. Mr. Follensbee, I believe, did.
Q. Mr. Follensbee did?
A. Yes; my impression at that time was, that fifteen or twenty determined persons could have stopped the whole rumpus in front of Mr. Bown's place.
Q. Did the mayor make any demand on the citizens for help?
A. Not that I know of. The mayor told me that his police force was scattered around so that he was unable to get together enough to be of any special service. But they did, however, gather up six or eight of them, and they came down here.
* * * * *
Joseph S. Haymaker, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At Laurel station, on the Fort Wayne railroad.
Q. State what you know of the riot that began on the 19th of July?
A. I believe it was on Saturday--I think that was the 20th of July--that I came up to the city. I had been home sick for almost two months before that time. I went out to Twenty-eighth street, and at the time I went there I found a very considerable crowd of men there. I knew a very few of them. The great majority of them seemed to be strangers. I say this from the fact that owing to my political knowledge in the city, having made many political speeches here, I had gotten to know a great many men. When I came to Twenty-eighth street that afternoon, about two o'clock, I found a large number of men--probably from twelve hundred to fifteen hundred--right across the railroad track at Twenty-eighth street. I met some men I knew, and we were talking over the probability of a difficulty between the troops and the strikers; and these men, or one of them, said there was no danger of the soldiers firing on them--that the people of the State of Pennsylvania were with the strikers in this matter. Whilst we were talking in that way, the Philadelphia soldiers came up the railroad. I was asked the question two or three time, whether or not I thought the soldiers would fire on the citizens, and I said I would not trust them, and, so far as I am concerned, I am going to get out of the road. They are strangers here, and if ordered to fire will fire. If they don't, they are not good soldiers. I was standing then right in front of what they called the sand-house. Three or four gentlemen were there at the time with me, and John Cluley, the painter. I said to them: now, I have had a little military experience during the last war, and I said we will get out of this and go down the hill-side. I got them to go with me. The Philadelphia men came up, and formed on both sides of the track, clearing the track by forming a square, open at the lower end. At this time I was on the hill-side, about eighty or ninety feet, probably one hundred feet, above where they had formed. In that formation of the square there was a portion of a company--I suppose about twenty or twenty-five men--that had yellow plumes in their hats--Philadelphia men--who were swung off from the left of the square, and tried to force back the mob from Twenty-eighth street. Failing in that, then a company was brought up from the lower end of the square--brought right up between the two lines in this way, [illustrating,] right past where the Gatling guns were stationed, and brought face to face with the mob. They marched up until they were within probably twenty-five or thirty feet of the mob, and then halted for about a second. At that time I noticed the sheriff's posse standing in front of where they were standing, trying to get the mob to move back. Then these men moved at a charge bayonet, and went right up to the mob, and I saw several of the mob catch the bayonets and push them down. Then I saw three or four stones thrown from the little watch-house. These stones were thrown right through into this company coming up. Then I heard a pistol shot fired, and probably two or three seconds after that three or four other pistols shots were fired just like that, [illustrating,] and then I saw two or three of the soldiers go down. Then the stones began to fly down along the line, in among the soldiers, and the firing first began right across the railroad track. I don't know what company or regiment it was, but they had black feathers. They were right in front of this square, and the first musket firing began there. I noticed that. Then I heard, probably a dozen of boys hallo shoot! shoot! down along the line, then the pistol shots began, and the musket shots began, and I got down in a ditch behind where I was, and staid there until it was all over.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This call of shoot, shoot, where did it come from?
A. I won't be sure about that. I saw some of the officers strike up the guns with their swords, and I saw some pulling of the men backwards inside the square. Then, just right after that, there was a general volley right along the line.
Q. A volley or a scattering fire?
A. File firing--each man for himself.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you hear any order given by any officer to fire?
A. No; nor do I believe any order was given. I say that, for the reason that, had there been an order or command given, there would have been simultaneous firing, but it seemed to me, when the fighting commenced, that everybody was taking care of himself.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. That is, they were protecting themselves from something that was going to injure them?
A. No; but as fast as a man got his gun loaded he would fire, and as fast as the others could get a brick they would throw it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What effect did the firing of the soldiers produce on the crowd?
A. Right by me, on my right hand an old man, and a little girl on my left hand, were shot dead. I got into the ditch, and I know it was full--the ditch.
By Mr. Means:
Q. It was not a regular volley of musketry?
A. No; it was every fellow for himself.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you know how many persons were killed there?
A. No; but when I came up from the ditch--it is not a regular ditch, but a wash down the hillside--when I raised up, somebody else was shot, and I got down again. When I raised up the second time everything was quiet. I looked down over the bank, and several men were lying there dead.
Q. You say that an old gentleman was killed?
A. Yes.
Q. And that a little girl was killed?
A. No; she was shot right through the knee, and I pulled her down into the ditch and tied a handkerchief around her leg. There was a physician there--I think Dr. Schnatterly, of Bellevue, and he took charge of her, and I heard she died that night.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. This crowd standing there--what business did they have there?
A. They had no business there.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. Had you any business there?
A. None at all; but I had never seen a strike before, and I went up to see what it looked like. Right down along the railroad there was probably ten feet of ground, or twelve feet--right along the railroad, in front of the troops, occupied by a class of men that I had never seen in the city of Pittsburgh before--ragged looking and dirty looking. There is one thing about Pittsburgh people, that you can tell them on the street--at least, I think, I can. I walking along the street, if a man comes from Philadelphia or any other place, I think I can tell him. In other words, I know he don't belong here. I don't know the reason why, but we get to notice our own people, and I say that that crowd of people along there I never saw before. They looked here [illustrating] like people that I never saw before. I believe them to be strangers not only to Pittsburgh and Allegheny county, but to Western Pennsylvania, and, in fact, to the State of Pennsylvania.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How large was that crowd?
A. There were five hundred or more of them fronting the railroad.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. There is a kind of a platform there?
A. The road runs along six feet below the bank, and then the bank runs back about fifty feet, and then the hill commences for one hundred or one and fifty feet above that.
Q. Did this crowd throw stones?
A. Yes; and just here I will give another reason why I believe that crowd to be strangers in the city of Pittsburgh. The most of our men here--our laboring men--wear dark clothes, but I saw men in that crowd with light pantaloons, and yellow pantaloons, and two men with velveteen coats, and those men seemed to me to be making the most noise down in front of the soldiers. At that time, in my mind, I thought they were tramps. Of course, I can't say that of the whole crowd, but I say that the men making the demonstrations were men of that class.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did that fire from the militia disperse the crowd?
A. Yes; in firing, very unfortunately, they fired over the heads of the people there, and killed the people above. If they had lowered their guns eight inches they would have killed a class of men that we could very well get rid of.
Q. Did they disperse?
A. Yes.
Q. In what direction?
A. Some went up the hill-side, and the mob in front of Twenty-eighth street, ran down Twenty-eighth street to Penn.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did the soldiers attempt to shoot at them as they ran up the bank?
A. Yes; I suppose the firing lasted a minute and a half. The soldiers began firing right down the line, and probably some of them fired four or five shots. When the crowd broke, they ran up among the people on the hill-side, and some of them ran into the ditch where I was. The rest of them went on up the hill-side. I noticed one thing, that the old soldiers dropped flat down when the firing commenced, while the others ran.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean the old soldiers in the crowd?
A. I mean that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you think that force of soldiers, with twenty rounds of ammunition, could have held their position and kept the crowd off during the night?
A. Not as strangers, they could not do it. I mean this--had that force been posted as to the situation here, they could have done that--they could have kept the mob off with half their number; but not being acquainted, I think they did about the only thing they could do. The only thing lacking under the circumstances--I have had my own opinion since that time as to what I think I would have done, without any more knowledge of military affairs than I learned in the army, and I would have taken charge of this ditch that I was in, and have put the men in there for the purpose of controlling the round-house and the tracks below. But then there was a danger to be taken into consideration, that along the hill above this ditch, there were houses on the hill-side occupied by railroad men and by strikers, and by men in sympathy with them, so there would have been a danger there, because there would have been firing from the rear--in other words, if people had gone on the hill-side, and opened fire down from the hill-side, they would have had to abandon the ditch--or, on the other hand--my idea of the matter would have been to have picketed Penn avenue and Liberty street very heavily, and have kept those streets clear, from Twenty-eighth street clear down. When you consider that a crowd or a mob is always cowardly, so that the firing of eight or ten men into it will break it, I really believe that the best plan would have been to have picketed Penn avenue and Liberty street--to have kept these streets clear, and then if necessary, to have picketed the upper side of the railroad track, which would have formed a square of pickets, whereby to preserve the cars. Yet, at the same time, I will say that these picket lines would have been subjected to a fire from both sides--from the hill-side above, and from the houses below. I went home on the six o'clock train that evening.
Q. Could General Brinton have taken his troops then, and marched them down towards the Union depot, and kept the crowd back, or kept the crowd above?
A. No; but the mistake that General Brinton made was this, that when he began firing he should have kept it up.
Q. How long?
A. Until every man in the city of Pittsburgh was willing to stop.
Q. Do you think, in your judgment, with the number of men they had, with twenty rounds of ammunition, and with more ammunition over in the Union depot, that they could have maintained their ground there and kept up the firing, and kept the mob back, and kept up communications with Union depot, in order to replenish their ammunition?
A. If he had continued his firing from the time the firing began at Twenty-eighth street, most undoubtedly he could. But after that, when General Brinton got into the round-house, where there are open windows--the house is perfectly round--at that time he was at the mercy of every building.
Q. But I am speaking of the time before he went into the round-house, and after the crowd had dispersed--at that time had he continued firing, could he have maintained his position and kept the crowd away?
A. Yes; fifty men armed as those men were armed--because I noticed that every time a gun struck, it tore a hole like that. [Illustrating.] Following that mob would have dispersed them.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. Would not that have caused great loss of life?
A. Undoubtedly--if they had fired low.
Q. What is your avocation now?
A. I am a lawyer by profession.
Q. You practice at the bar here in this city?
A. Yes.
Q. From your experience in the army, and from what you saw of the conduct of the troops at Twenty-eighth street, would you say that their conduct was good as military men?
A. No, sir; not a bit of it. Every man that fired first should have been taken out and shot. In other words, I mean that there was not a particle of discipline. I say that for this reason: There was no order given to fire by any officer. I believe that to be the fact, because I was on the hill side not more than sixty or eighty feet away from where the firing began, and I had been there some two hours before the firing did begin. I was standing there wondering how the men were going to clear the tracks, and when the fight began I was listening very closely in order to hear what command would be given by the officer in command. Then this fuss began with three or four pistol shots, and then the bricks and stones were thrown, and then more pistol shots, and then it was every man for himself. So far as those soldiers were concerned, I have said since, and believe it to be a fact, that it was one mob armed against another mob not armed.
Q. Was not the conduct of those soldiers as good as could be expected from militia men?
A. I do not know that. I have seen militia men during the war that would walk up to the scratch, and stay there. The great trouble with militia men is that they fire too high.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you think there was any real necessity for calling on the militia for assistance here?
A. I would not like to give any opinion about that. I know that the sheriff started out a lot of his deputies to get a lot of lawyers out here, and the lawyers went out--of the back windows, and every other way they could get out. I never believed that the sheriff exhausted all his power.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You believe, then, it was necessary to call out the military--that the difficulty had got beyond the control of the civil authorities?
A. I believe that. I believe it was necessary to call out the military--but to use them. In explanation of that, I would say this: that even after the military were here, that the city of Pittsburgh was panic struck, and that young men were taken up on the streets and were furnished with arms, privately by the different banks, to go in and guard the banks, because, on the Monday night following the burning, it was rumored on the streets--on Fifth avenue, and on Wood, and on Smithfield streets--that the banks were to be attacked that night, and I know of several banks in the city that were guarded by young men picked up throughout the city. I believe it to be a fact, that, had the trouble lasted two days longer, there would have been a vacation of the city by the women and the children in the city of Pittsburgh. I believe they would have gotten out of town.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. You state you spoke to some people about the probability of the troops firing on the crowd. Who were those people?
A. I cannot recollect.
Q. Were they part of the crowd--the strikers?
A. No.
At this point the committee adjourned to meet at three o'clock this afternoon.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
ORPHANS' COURT ROOM. PITTSBURGH, Tuesday, February 12, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
* * * * *
Joseph S. Haymaker, recalled.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What sympathy did the rioters seem to get from the surrounding crowds of spectators?
A. Do you mean on Saturday?
Q. Yes.
A. I can hardly say; I was one of the party myself. Do you mean after they were fired into?
Q. From that time until Monday.
A. On Saturday, the 20th of July, the general feeling seemed to be, up to the time of the firing, that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company had not done exactly what was right with their employés.
Q. To what extent did that feeling exist in the community?
A. I cannot say about the community, because I was at my home sick for six weeks before that time. I can only speak of the crowd that was there at the same time I was. So far as that was concerned, I suppose they felt about as I did, that as they were getting pretty good pay for their shipments, and everything of that kind, it seemed to be kind of rough, to cut down their wages so much. It was a kind of general feeling, that the railroad company had not done exactly what was right with their employés, but I found nobody who could give me a definite explanation of the reason why the people of Pittsburgh should be against the railroad company--that is, I could not find anybody who could give me any reason why there should be any strike between the people of the city and the railroad company, on account of the way the railroad company had treated their employés; but immediately after the fire was over, I did not hear any question of that kind raised. The prevailing question was how we were going to get out of the trouble we were in.
Q. In your judgment, would it not have been proper for the officer in command of the military force, at five o'clock on Saturday afternoon, to have given the command to fire?
A. I most undoubtedly think it would have been.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. There was sufficient provocation to justify the giving of that command?
A. Yes; my recollection is, I heard an order given by some officer, commanding either a company or a regiment of the Philadelphia soldiers up at the front of the line that was formed there--an order given to those men to disperse and go back, and I think he gave the order in this way: "Now," he says, "why don't you men go back?" It was half a minute after that when I heard the first pistol shot fired, and then from that the firing began. I think, that when the order was given to go back and clear the tracks, that he would have been justified in ordering the men to fire, although I heard no order to fire.
Q. And followed up the firing until he dispersed the crowd?
A. I believe that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What troops were on the ground at that time?
A. I do not know. I simply know this. That certain troops or uniformed men came up the Pennsylvania railroad from the depot, and formed in line in front of the upper round-house, at the corner of Twenty-eighth street, and at that time some of our Pittsburgh soldiers were on the hill side above--some of our Allegheny county soldiers on the hill side above.
Q. But those on the railroad were Philadelphia troops?
A. I believed them to be from Philadelphia.
Q. Do you know anything about the conduct of the Pittsburgh troops called out here during that day, or any time during the riot?
A. No; except this far, that when I came up to Twenty-eighth street, and before the Philadelphia soldiers came up there, I walked across Twenty-eighth street, up the hill side, where there was part of a company--part of one of the western Pennsylvania companies, or a Pittsburgh company, I do not know which it was, and when I got to the top of the hill side I was a good deal out of breath----
Q. After the firing?
A. Before the firing--probably an hour before. There was one of the private soldiers belonging to some company--I do not know any thing about him. He had a uniform on, and I asked him the question: "How long have you been here?" and he said, "since last night." I said, "how long are you going to stay here?" and he says, "I don't know." I said, "you may likely be called upon to clear the tracks down there;" and he said, "they may call on me, and they may call pretty damn loud before they will clear the tracks." At the same time, I looked in the man's face, and I thought he might be called upon to all eternity before he would do anything reasonable. The company, at that time, was scattered--standing all around.
Q. Was this company far from the mob?
A. Probably one hundred feet--probably one hundred and fifty feet.
Q. Were their arms stacked?
A. Yes; I know that after the firing, one dead soldier was carried down from about the spot where I had been talking to this man, down to the Twenty-eighth street crossing.
Q. Were the men with their guns where they were stacked?
A. Some of them were down on the railroad track, and some were on the hill-side, and some were around their guns, and some were back towards the hospital.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Didn't you say those were Philadelphia troops up at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; that is, I understood that.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You spoke about those strange men you thought were strangers in Pittsburgh, that had come from a distance. Have you any knowledge of people coming to Pittsburgh at any time previous to the 19th of July?
A. I can say this in reference to that, but as a lawyer I would say that part of it is hearsay evidence, that is, I do not know it to be a fact myself. I live below Pittsburgh, about seven miles, on the Fort Wayne road, at Laurel station, and I know from the time I went down last spring, we had much trouble with tramps. Probably two or three, or four or five, or six or seven, would be there every day. But about four days before this trouble--it was on the Friday before this trouble--at that time I was not at home sick--I recollect my wife saying to me, that "we have had no tramps down here for the last few days," and I said, "they will come back again," and until after the rioting and the burning here, we had but one tramp at our house, until the third day after--that was on Sunday. Then they began to come back every day. I have heard others of my neighbors say the same thing. And almost every night, looking from my library towards the river, I could see along the river bank that these tramps would have fires, and I have seen, when I would come down to the train in the morning--I have seen as high as fifteen or twenty around these fires. But for two or three days before the riot--that is, before the burning here, and for one or two days after that time, I noticed very few of those fires, if any, and we were not troubled with these tramps at our house; and after the trouble was all over, it made such an impression on me, that I loaded a double-barreled shot gun, and told my wife how to use it, and told her if they came around not to do anything for them. I did not consider them fit subjects for charity.
* * * * *
James Bown, sworn with the uplifted hand.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your business, and where is your place of business?
A. Nos. 136 and 138 Wood street, Pittsburgh.
Q. What kind of business do you carry on?
A. It is the cutlery business--guns and sporting goods in general--manufacturing.
Q. I wish you to state what efforts you made to protect your store on the night of the 21st--Saturday night. You went to see the mayor. What efforts did you make?
A. I was absent from the city until about seven and a half o'clock that evening, and when I came to the store I found it was shut up. I met my second son there, and I asked him what the trouble was. Well, he said the mob had broken into some of the pawnbrokers, up in the Fifth ward, and also into one of our competitor's. I asked him where my other son was, and he said at the back end of the store. I got into the back yard and went into the store and found them there making preparations to take some of the valuable guns into the cellar--into the vault. It looked as if things were serious. I said, "I will go out and look around, and see what the trouble is." They commenced to put away the goods as fast as they could. Of course they had to use great judgment about taking the fine guns into the cellar. I was away perhaps half an hour. As soon as I went out into the alley, I met Mr. Follensbee and Mr. Myers. I said, "Things look serious around here." The mayor's clerk was there, Mr. Metzgar, and perhaps half a dozen people were congregated in the alley. He said, "Gentlemen, you had better disperse. We would rather not have anybody around here, so as not to excite anybody." I told him it was a good suggestion, and Mr. Myers and Mr. Follensbee and myself went into our yard. It was then pretty near dark. I said, "Let us go up to Smithfield street, and see what they are doing." I understood there was quite a crowd in front of Mr. Johnston's, another competitor of our's. We went up the alley and then turned to the left and went down towards Sixth avenue. An immense crowd was in front of this gun store, but had done no damage. Several policemen were in front of the store. In going through the crowd several sang out, "Let's go down to Bown's, and clean him out." I said, "That sounds pretty loud, and we had better go and see if the mayor won't send back some police." We came back to the mayor's office, and there the mayor was, standing outside. I went up to him, and addressed him as "Mac." I am rather familiar with him. I said, "We require some extra police down there, as they are going down to our store to clean us out." He said, "I will do all I can for you," and said that a good many police were up at Mr. Johnston's. I said, "It is necessary to act quick and prompt, as the crowd is now moving, and it won't take them long to come there." Mr. Follensbee spoke up, and said, "I will be one of fifty special police." I do not think he made any reply to that, but he said, "I will send some down." With that I left, and came down to the store again. Some people were in front of the store, and I think among them, perhaps, were two or three policemen--I think there were. I was more interested in securing the things just at that time, so I went into the store again, and the boys were still working, taking down the guns. They had got the pistols--the greater portion of them--into a safe we had, and Mr. Follensbee suggested to me to come around to Fifth avenue to his store. I went back through Mr. Carter's store, and went with him into his store. I was not in there two minutes until an immense rush of people came past the store, and they shoved the doors to. I said, "Open the doors, I want to see what the trouble is." I was running across the street when a friend of mine said, "There is no use in your going; they have got in." I knew a road coming through another gentleman's store and through Mr. Carter's store, and got into the back yard. The crowd was then in the store and securing all the things as fast as they could. Then Mr. Follensbee followed after me. Of course, he remonstrated outside as well he could. Everything was barricaded up so that we could not get in. I will tell you one thing that occurred there. A negro had got at my private desk and got open the drawers, and was pulling out the things, and had got among the postage stamps when we hallooed at him. The language we used was pretty severe, and he dropped everything and ran. In a few minutes, as soon as things were quieted down, we got a policeman--we tapped for him to come and open a window, and we got in. Of course, then the destruction had taken place.
Q. How long after you made that call on the mayor was it that they broke into the store?
A. Not over fifteen to twenty minutes.
Q. Did he send any policemen down?
A. Some were there in front, but I cannot say how many. Some came after the thing was over, but whether they were outside, I do not know.
Q. He made no reply when Mr. Follensbee offered to do special duty?
A. No reply at all.
Q. Nor did he make any demand on the citizens?
A. No.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Those parties took away general plunder, did they?
A. Yes.
Q. They did not come specially for guns?
A. They took everything--knives and pistols and spoons and forks and carving knives and fishing tackle, and everything they could.
Q. It was simply a party bent on plunder?
A. Yes; it was just a mob. I do not charge it on the strikers.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did you ever get track of any of those guns.
A. We got four out of the lot--those were left by parties--men that came out with three or four and just handed them to us. They preserved them for us.
Q. You never got track where they went?
A. No; we had a good many guns with marks on them--numbers, and some guns--a special kind of guns--that there are very few of here.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. About four hundred of them?
A. Yes.
Q. And a great variety of other things?
A. Yes.
Q. You recovered none of the guns?
A. No.
* * * * *
B. K. Walton, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were one of the deputy sheriffs in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether you were in the city during Thursday, the 19th, and during Friday.
A. I cannot say as to Thursday or Friday--I do not think that I was. I was on Saturday.
Q. State to us just what connection you had with the riotous proceedings?
A. On Saturday I was one among the deputies instructed by the sheriff to get up a posse. I went along several of the streets and asked several parties to come up. Some said they would come and some said they would not. However, not more than one or two came. We went on up to Union depot to the railroad and from there went up with the military to Twenty-eighth street. There appeared to be a crowd on both sides of the railroad, and along the railroad, as we went up. There was a great deal of turmoil and noise. We were not up there more than a few minutes until the firing commenced. Stones and pieces of bricks were thrown before the firing commenced.
Q. Where did you try to raise a posse?
A. In the streets here.
Q. To what class of men did you go?
A. To most anybody that we could get hold of--citizens of Pittsburgh.
Q. What responses did you get usually?
A. Some said they would not go under any consideration and others promised to go, but did not come when the time came.
Q. How many did you succeed in getting?
A. Out of ten or fifteen that promised to come, I think only one or two came.
Q. Did you go outside of the city in trying to raise the posse?
A. No.
Q. How many did you say there were of you that went ahead of the military?
A. I think there were from twelve to eighteen of us ahead of the militia from Union depot up to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. When the crowd began to throw stones, was it at you or the militia?
A. It appeared to be at the militia altogether.
Q. Were any of the sheriff's posse hit?
A. Not to my own knowledge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was not the sheriff struck himself?
A. Not that I saw.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Whereabouts did the sheriff's posse stand when the stones began to be thrown?
A. Some were on Twenty-eighth street, and part of the party were on this side a little piece, not more than ten or twelve feet apart.
Q. In front of the militia?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you when the militia fired?
A. On the crossing at Twenty-eighth street. Part of the crowd had got in between me and most of the others and the militia. We got mixed up at that time.
Q. Did the militia fire towards you?
A. The first firing appeared to be up the hill, and the second up the railroad where we were standing.
Q. Where did you go then?
A. I got behind a car.
Q. Where did the balance of the party go to?
A. I do not know where they all went to. Some were where I was.
Q. Did you call on any of the constables to go out with you?
A. I do not believe I did myself.
Q. Were you out during Sunday?
A. Not in connection with the office; but I was out myself.
Q. Did you see the fire?
A. Yes; I was on the hill pretty much all day above the Union depot.
Q. What time did you get on the ground?
A. I came over in the morning about nine o'clock. I live just above the top of the hill.
Q. How far had the fire approached towards the city at that time?
A. A considerable distance below the round-house.
Q. How many men were engaged in burning and running down the cars then?
A. A great many of them.
Q. Two or three hundred?
A. Yes; more than that.
Q. How many policemen would it have taken to have driven them away at that time?
A. I do not think there were enough in the city at that time.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did the sheriff command the mob to disperse before the firing?
A. I believe he did; but I was not up with him the first time he was up.
Q. What effort was made by the sheriff and his posse, or deputies, to clear the track before the military came up?
A. They tried to get them off the track--they talked to some of them, but they appeared to want to get at the military. When we got to the crossing, part of the party got away, and that is how a part of the mob got in between us and the military.
Q. Were you close to the military when the firing commenced?
A. Within ten or twelve feet, I think.
Q. Did you hear any command given to fire?
A. None whatever.
Q. If there had been a command given you would have heard it?
A. I think so--I was close enough. There appeared to be a good deal of noise going on at the time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You were not with the sheriff on Friday night when he went up to Twenty-eighth street?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether he made any effort that night to raise a posse or not?
A. I do not know of my own knowledge. I was not in the city on Friday night?
Q. Did you see the crowd on Saturday morning?
A. Yes.
Q. How large was it on Saturday morning?
A. A great many people were there.
Q. Do you think a well organized police force would have been able to have driven away the crowd on Saturday morning?
A. I do not know about that. It would have depended on circumstances altogether. It would have taken a pretty good force to have driven them away.
Q. Do you think it would have been possible to have gathered a posse in and about the city--if the sheriff had started out on Saturday morning and made an effort, could he have collected a posse sufficiently large to have driven away the crowd?
A. The Saturday morning we were out?
Q. By sending out deputies through the county, do you think he could have collected a posse, or not?
A. If all were of the same opinion as the people in town, I do not think he could have got a posse. It would have been pretty hard work.
Q. How was the feeling outside the city, so far as you know?
A. Outside I do not know. In the city, the feeling appeared to be with the strikers altogether.
Q. Here in the city?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you say all the citizens?
A. No; I do not say that; but those I had any conversation with--those men I tried to get to go up there.
* * * * *
Soloman Coulson, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am doing nothing. At the time of this riot I was a police officer. My occupation is a brick-maker.
Q. What office did you fill at the time of the trouble?
A. I was what is called a roundsman here in this city--walking pretty much all over. I wore no uniform. I traveled into different places in the city.
Q. Where were you on Thursday morning?
A. I was at home in bed.
Q. When did you first learn of the disturbance?
A. About one o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. What took place?
A. I went to Twenty-eighth street where the disturbance was, and found detective McGovern there in charge of a posse of men. A great many railroaders were standing around, not doing anything. Along about three-forty o'clock, they made up a freight train to go out called a double-header--two engines attached to the train. Orders were given by somebody, I don't know who, that four policemen should go on each one of those locomotives. I was, myself, on one locomotive. The engine I was on, a reporter got on. He asked me if there was any danger, and I told him I thought there was, and he got off. They pulled out this train, I guess, about ten or twelve feet, and I didn't see anybody going to stop it. I thought they could very easily have taken it out at that time. I saw a man get on the track and throw his hands up, and with that they stopped, and the engineers and firemen jumped off. The police then on the engines insisted on going ahead. I did, for myself. The last man I saw getting off was a fireman. I said what are you getting off for, and he said he had got to do it.
Q. Did they refuse to go on when you insisted?
A. That man--he was a fireman or an engineer--I cannot tell which--he was doing both.
Q. It was when that man threw himself in front of the train?
A. One man did it. I think he is in jail now. That evening we had this man McCall in the Twelfth ward station, and there was a rumor that the mob was going to attack the Twelfth ward station and rescue him. I went to that station, and took that man McCall and marched down, putting twenty policemen behind us. We passed through the crowd, and nothing was said, and got down a few squares when there happened to be a friend of mine sitting in a car, and he hallooed at me and said, "For God's sake get in the car." The street was blocked. The car was stopped at the corner of Twenty-fourth and Penn, and we got in with our prisoner. Some of the crowd caught up with us. I had a revolver. One fellow put up a revolver at my ear when I struck him over the face with mine. We still kept on going, and we took our prisoner to the Central station. I didn't get back again that night. I was there again on the 21st, Saturday, and about eleven o'clock that night--Saturday night--I saw this burning. I was on Smithfield street at the time, and met a great many men coming down with goods. The feeling was not good towards me on account of this man McCall. I met a couple of parties with rolls of cloth, and we arrested them, and by morning we had more than a hundred in there for carrying off stuff. On Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left--and before they did leave--we had that man in jail that I saw shooting into them with a breech-loading rifle. I went up to the round-house, and made a search there. I heard Chief Evans state that he saw whisky running into the cellar of the round-house. I don't know where there is a cellar to the round-house, but there is a cellar to the carpenter shop.
Q. Is the carpenter-shop not one part of the round-house?
A. The carpenter-shop is on the right, and there was a space of thirty or forty feet between them. The Philadelphia troops I saw leave the round-house. They came out and formed, and went off.
Q. How did they come out?
A. In a body, in regular marching order.
Q. Where was the crowd when they came out?
A. Very scarce.
Q. Where had the crowd gone to?
A. Dispersed and secreted themselves in buildings and every place. I went as far as Seventeenth street--the crowd had started, too--then the fire had not got that far. It was about the middle of the day. We stopped there, and during the time we were there undertook to prevent parties from breaking open the cars and setting them on fire, which we did succeed in stopping some. Afterwards I saw men dropping coal down below the track, and rolling barrels of oil down and setting them on fire. They were strangers to me. We couldn't get the force apparently together. If we had got them together at that time, a hundred men would have subdued the riot at that time, because it was apparently the work of boys. There were not as many men as boys, but the force had got scattered.
Q. What time did the troops come out of the round-house?
A. Near seven or eight o'clock.
Q. Not many of the crowd were there at that time?
A. No.
Q. Was any burning going on at that time?
A. I saw the first car fired to drive the Philadelphia troops out. It was a car on the Valley track. It was set on fire, and a wheel of it was chocked. They dropped other cars down against it, and they caught on fire, until it got pretty hot. But this carpenter-shop didn't take fire for some time. I helped to shove some cars away back from the entrance leading in between the round-house and the carpenter-shop. Those cars didn't catch on fire.
Q. They kept dropping those cars down all night?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they remain near the round-house?
A. They kept back towards Twenty-seventh street. They had a gun there. A man named Stewart I saw carried away from there dead. He was apparently a railroader. He had a watch with that name on it. I went to see the gun, and if they had ever fired it, it never would have hurt anybody in the round-house--if they had ever fired it. The wall is too high there.
Q. What was it that caused that crowd to be scattered? Was it fear of fire from the soldiers?
A. I reckon that was it.
Q. After the soldiers got away, did the crowd re-assemble?
A. No; not there.
Q. Were the burning cars below there?
A. Yes.
Q. They were still going on down with the burning and the pillaging?
A. Yes.
Q. They marched in regular order--the troops you saw?
A. In every good order.
Q. Suppose they had formed in line, at that time, and marched on the crowd what would have been the effect?
A. They would have got the best of the crowd because I didn't see many around there.
Q. Could they have driven the crowd away from the burning cars?
A. I think they could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. And restored order?
A. I don't know about that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who directed you to go out there first?
A. The mayor--to the best of my knowledge and belief.
Q. Did you have anybody with you?
A. No.
Q. Did you see the mayor before going?
A. I saw him that day before going.
Q. Where?
A. At the city hall, in his office.
Q. Were you on regular duty that day?
A. I was on other duty that day--I was on a little special duty that day, but was detailed and sent to where this trouble was supposed to be. I was to meet the men where I was going. About this Officer Motts. On Saturday night the mayor was in the Twelfth ward, and shortly after I went there I saw him there, and on Sunday morning. On Sunday he was on the railroad. I was standing alone, and he came to me and said to me, for God's sake get some men, you can stop them from breaking into these cars. I went towards the crowd, but there was no use for one man--but I did. They then commenced to hurl stones.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the crowd--boys?
A. Yes; and some men were among them. They were all getting pretty drunk then.
Q. You say the mayor was there attending to his duties?
A. Yes; using all the efforts he could to stop the riot; but we could not get the men together. Our force had been cut down, and it was impossible to get the men together. I asked men to stand alongside of me, but as soon as you would turn your head around again they were gone. In relation to Johnston and Bown's gun shops--I was at both places. At Johnston's, a demand was made for guns, and they gave them some muskets. I don't think that Johnston's was broke in.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They gave them?
A. That was what was said. I know I took a musket with a bayonet on from a fellow, and gave it back to the store. I was sent by the mayor's clerk to Bown's--some eight of us--but there were no uniformed men among us; we were in citizen's clothes. It was a hard matter to tell what they wanted; but eight of us went there at the time. Then this party came along Wood street, and they had a drum with them, and some of them had muskets with bayonets on, and others had revolvers, and others, what I took to be a large rammer, and they commenced ramming against the door. Officer Downey was one of the first officers to the store. I got in with him. They were then carrying out the stuff, and we took several guns from them and handed them back. They were still carrying out the stuff, and it was impossible to prevent them breaking in, because the force was not strong enough.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you armed?
A. No; no more than we usually carried--our pocket revolvers.
Q. Had you maces?
A. The men that were there were not in the habit of carrying maces. I suppose they had billies and revolvers. The proper course to save Bown's store would have been to let eight or nine men get in there and arm them, and then keep them out there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did this crowd seem to be bent on plunder?
A. Principally on plunder; I don't think that many of those guns taken out there ever went into the riot.
Q. Did they carry off pretty much everything?
A. Yes; according to the looks of the shelves and show cases. There were a couple of men arrested for stealing from that establishment, that are now doing terms in the western penitentiary.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Did you recognize them as any particular class of men?
A. I did not; their faces to me were apparently strange--they apparently looked like workingmen. A great many thieves were among them, and some, I know, have had to leave the city since, or we would have had them.
Q. You don't know where they were from?
A. Those I speak of?
Q. Yes?
A. I do; yes, from Pittsburgh.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. They have left the city entirely?
A. Yes.
Q. You were about the city a good deal attending to your duties, and you know a large part of the population?
A. I do.
Q. That crowd of men that went out there on Saturday and Sunday--was the crowd composed of men about the city?
A. No; they were pretty much all strangers; the biggest portion of them were strange men.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In your duties as a roundsman, had you noticed any unusual influx of strangers into the town?
A. I had--a great many. We had a large crowd of them, I believe from Cumberland--in the neighborhood of twenty-five or thirty--that is, one batch, and I took notice of others.
Q. Sufficient to attract the attention of the police authorities?
A. It would have attracted my attention, and I have been following up that business for my living for eight or nine years.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When did these men come into the city first?
A. The first I noticed of them was on Saturday night, when I got into the Twelfth ward. To show you that there were a great many people that didn't belong in the city, I arrested some nine or ten up there that night, and among that nine or ten, eight of them belonged to Allegheny, and their faces were all strange to me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This party from Cumberland--when did they come?
A. I can't remember.
Q. After or before the fire?
A. I can't be positive which.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. You said there was no cellar under this round-house?
A. There was no cellar, but I found a turn-table in the middle of it.
Q. How deep is a round-house generally dug out--from the top of the rails down?
A. It is on a level, but it has got to be so deep for the turn-table.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The carpenter shop was connected with it?
A. Yes.
Q. And the superintendent's office and car shops?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't they all have cellars under them?
A. The office might have had a cellar--I know the office had.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When you went out there on Thursday afternoon, what class of men were there?
A. Principally railroaders.
Q. How many were there?
A. One hundred and fifty, or more than that. I knew a great many of them.
Q. Could the trains have been run out that afternoon, if the engineers and firemen had gone?
A. Yes; they could have taken this train out I was on--I don't know how far, though. They had four policemen on each engine to protect the engineers and firemen, and from what I understood, there were men to be put along on the train to protect the brakemen.
Q. You were out again on Friday?
A. No; not until Saturday. I remained there until Sunday morning, about eight o'clock.
Q. How large a posse could you have raised in the city to go out there and restore order, if the mayor had made a call, or a demand for a posse?
A. It would have depended on how much time you would have given me.
Q. In a day?
A. I might have got in the neighborhood of one hundred men. There were but one hundred and twenty men, and some of them were there.
Q. But from any class of men in the city--if he had just called for a posse from any source--for extra men?
A. He could not have got many at that time. Wherever I went, to judge from the talk, the people were all in sympathy with the mob.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you mean the tax-payers?
A. I suppose so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. But the mayor made no call, so far as you know, for a posse?
A. I saw him trying to get men together on different occasions.
Q. But he made no official demand?
A. Not that I know of.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. He made no effort to increase his police force by swearing in extra men?
A. I believe he did as quick as he could do it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When did he do it?
A. In a couple or three days--may be two days.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. After the riot?
A. Shorty after the riot. I think he did it as quickly as he could get the men together. I think he tried all he could to prevent this riot, which he don't get the credit for here. He ordered me on Sunday morning to go to the fire department, about one o'clock, and I went in search of the chief, in company with another officer, Motts. He did the talking. I didn't talk to him myself. We went to look for the chief, and could not find him. We went down to Twenty-first street and Penn street, and we saw a foreman there--I believe, in fact, several of the fire department were there, and we requested them to come and play on the fire, that the mayor had sufficient force, and that he would protect them, and the answer I don't remember, but I know they didn't come up and play on the fire. They were not going to run the danger.
Q. What firemen did you see?
A. Motts can tell you. Several were standing there.
Q. What ones were standing there?
A. Different ones. A man named Kennedy was there, and one named Miller.
Q. Do you know where those two men are now?
A. I suppose they are still on the fire department. The mayor at that time had dispatched from the Twelfth ward station for police, and had got, I guess, sixty or may be more. I know that many, for I knew the lieutenant that came up.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Were the round-house and those shops very hot when you went in?
A. No; No cars were burning there yet.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Was the fire department near there--some of them?
A. Yes; close up.
Q. If they had played on the burning cars could they have prevented those buildings from getting on fire?
A. I think they could have prevented it.
Q. Were you ready to give protection then?
A. The mayor was there, and his force, and those were the orders.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When you went inside of the round-house were the doors still intact.
A. They were. I could not see any fire about them.
Q. How many engines were in there at that time?
A. I can't be certain. A number were in there at that time--a great many. They were shoved in the stalls. There would, apparently, be one in each.
Q. You think you examined those doors, do you?
A. I was close to the doors, and if there had been any fire--in case of a fire I would have seen it.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Was the upper round-house burning then?
A. I believe it was pretty much burned at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where did the troops come out of the round-house?
A. I saw a portion of them come out of the entrance on Twenty-sixth street, and I think a portion of them came out of the rear end of the carpenter shop. I saw some twenty-five or thirty come out.
* * * * *
Thomas Hastings, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your business?
A. I not doing anything at present.
Q. What were you doing in July last?
A. I was a police officer.
Q. What connection had you with the efforts to suppress the riot?
A. I did everything, so far as I could, at that time. I didn't know much about it until Saturday evening. Our time for going on duty was eight o'clock in the evening. I went on at seven o'clock, and had orders from the lieutenant to go down and notify each tavern-keeper to close his saloon, at the request of the mayor. I did so, and we were distributed in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street. There was a large crowd at Twenty-eighth street and Twenty-sixth street, and the crowd increased up to eleven o'clock.
Q. What time did you receive orders to close the saloons?
A. About seven o'clock in the evening.
Q. In the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?
A. All along Penn street. I went up about eleven o'clock, and stayed looking around for a while at Twenty-eighth street, and then came down as far as Twenty-sixth street, and went back again, and just as I got at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets I saw the fire, and I ran up Liberty street and saw a car of oil. I then ran down and pulled the alarm, and just as I pulled the alarm I was thrown out in the street. Just then the mayor passed me, and asked me what the car was, and I told him it was a car of oil. He asked me if I pulled the alarm, and I said yes. I didn't see any engine coming. I went down then to the Twelfth ward station-house, and I asked the captain if he had pulled the alarm, and he said he had tried to, but couldn't. I then went down a little piece, and saw an engine and the Independence hose carriage standing at Twenty-fourth or Twenty-fifth street. Somebody made a remark that they would not let them come up any further--that they had threatened to shoot them. I stayed around there all that night, and on Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left----
Q. Did you see the Philadelphia troops come out of the round-house?
A. I saw what they called the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Where did they come out?
A. They were in this round-house and in the carpenter shop. They appeared to come out of the west end of the carpenter shop.
Q. On to what street?
A. On to Liberty, and then down Twenty-fifth street to Penn. Some were deployed as skirmishers, at the head of the column. They appeared to be pretty well frightened.
Q. Were they marching in good order?
A. Yes; but they appeared to be pretty well scared.
Q. They marched regularly, did they?
A. Yes.
Q. Was any attack made on them?
A. Not to my knowledge--so far as I saw. I only stayed a few minutes, and went over into the round-house and carpenter shop. I went into, I believe, where D. O. Shater had his office, on the east end of the round-house. I went in there, and went in through the round-house into the carpenter shop.
Q. Were you on duty during the week prior to the riot?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you learn of any arrangement among the men for the strike?
A. I knew nothing of it until I got out of bed on Thursday, that was the first I heard of it.
Q. What time did you get up?
A. I generally got up about four or five o'clock.
Q. What did you learn then?
A. I learned that there was a strike, or that there was going to be a strike.
Q. Who informed you?
A. I don't remember. Some railroad man.
Q. What did he say about it?
A. That there had been a strike, or was going to be a strike.
Q. You knew of no pre-arranged plan for a strike?
A. No.
Q. Had you noticed any influx of strangers into the city prior to that time?
A. I had noticed a great many.
Q. What class of men?
A. They appeared to be tramps--fellows hunting for work, but who didn't want it.
Q. Any more than there had been previously?
A. Yes; that week there had been a great many traveling back and forward on the streets.
Q. A great many all the time are traveling, are they not?
A. Not as many as that week, I don't think.
Q. Did you have any conversation with those tramps?
A. No.
Q. What do you do with the tramps who come into the city here?
A. We don't do anything at present.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What was the first day you noticed more tramps than usual?
A. It appeared to be the beginning of the week of the riot--for six or eight days previous.
Q. You noticed it before the strike commenced?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You did not do anything with those tramps who gathered and collected?
A. We had not for some time.
Q. You allowed them to come in and go away when they choose?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Where had you noticed this extra influx of tramps?
A. I had noticed it on Penn street, particularly. A great many were going in and out. They would ask me where there was a place to stay over night, or if they could stay at the station-house, and I always directed them to the Young Men's Home.
Q. Did they come there in larger numbers than usual--that is, in larger crowds than six or eight or ten?
A. Sometimes I would see one or two, and then six, and they increased to as high as eight in a party.
Q. In a party?
A. In a bunch.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How soon were you up to the round-house after the troops vacated it?
A. In eight or ten minutes.
Q. Did you go through the round-house or the shops?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of those buildings on fire?
A. The machine shop was on fire--thirty or forty feet on the east side--that is, sixty feet from the east end of the round-house.
Q. Do you know anything about any oil cars that were dropped down on the Pennsylvania railroad towards the round-house?
A. I know that oil cars were dropped down there.
Q. At what time?
A. They were afire when I saw them. I don't know how close to the round-house they went.
Q. How were they stopped?
A. I think they were bumped against other cars.
Q. You don't know of any obstructions placed on the tracks that prevented them from running clear to the round house?
A. No.
Q. Was there much heat in the round-house when you got there, soon after the troops left?
A. The machine shop was on fire. How long it had been burning before, I cannot say. It was burning when I went into D. O. Shafer's office.
Q. Had any of the troops been in this machine shop?
A. I can't say; some had been shooting out of the bell tower that night.
Q. Of the machine shop?
A. Yes, sir; the round-house was not on fire, nor the carpenter shop.
Q. What has been your avocation for the last eight or ten years?
A. I have been a railroad man up to within three years.
Q. Have you ever been a conductor on passenger trains?
A. No.
Q. On freight trains?
A. I have been a conductor on freight.
Q. Had you any conversation with freight conductors up to the time of the riot, or before that time in relation to any contemplated strike?
A. No.
Q. Or with any men belonging to the Trainmen's Union?
A. No; I never took any stock in that union.
Q. Did you see the troops retiring from the round-house?
A. Not until they came up on Penn street.
Q. Did you see them fired at?
A. Not on Penn street. I saw a man who is in jail now, firing from the corner of Twenty-sixth and Penn streets.
Q. At the troops?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any whisky running into any of those buildings on fire?
A. I saw two cars of high wines on fire. They had stopped them in front of the superintendent's office, and they were throwing water out of the windows to put the fire out. When I went up there I saw it was high wines.
Q. Could that have run into the cellar of the buildings or the superintendent's office?
A. It would have taken a good bit, for the stone sill was eight or ten inches from the ground, and it would take a great deal to run in there, though a barrel might have rolled in through the window.
Q. Where is the battery room under the superintendent's office?
A. It is in the west corner of the building--in the cellar.
Q. Is it below the grade of the Allegheny Valley track?
A. I am not sure. Yes; it is below, the bottom part of it, but along the window sill, I think, it is five or six inches, may be more.
Q. It is below the grade of the railroad track?
A. The inside of it is, but the outside is about six or eight inches above the ground. I would have to send up to be sure about it.
* * * * *
William Coats, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you connected with the fire department of the city of Pittsburgh last July?
A. I am one of the fire commissioners of the city of Pittsburgh.
Q. State the organization of that department last July?
A. We had eleven steam fire engine companies and two hose companies and three trucks in the city of Pittsburgh last July, and an average of about seven men to a company. But we didn't have a full force on. Our appropriations ran short, and we were compelled to put off some twenty-two men just previous to the riot.
Q. How many men had you at that time?
A. One hundred and four, telegraph operators and all--a working force of about ninety-eight men.
Q. They are a paid force, are they?
A. Yes.
Q. State what aid they rendered in putting out the fire?
A. The first alarm, the night of the riot, occurred on the 21st of July, I think--I am not positive--and was sent in about fifteen minutes after ten o'clock. I was then at engine house No. 7, on Penn avenue, near the corner of Twenty-third street. There were three companies that answered that alarm, and one hose company and one truck. The department was stopped on the street, between Twenty-third and Twenty-eighth street. The crowd caught the horses of No. 7 engine, and drew the fire out of the engine, and made the men pull into the sidewalk. The department did no service on Saturday night, but they went into service when the Philadelphia troops vacated the round-house, on Sunday morning at seven o'clock. Our men went there then; and, if you will allow me, I will tell you why they did not go into service before.
Q. We want to know it?
A. The people would not allow them to.
Q. That is the mob?
A. Yes; but we considered them in service from the time the alarm struck, though they didn't throw any water. We couldn't get to the round-house building, or to where the fire started, because the mob stopped us. They made the assistant chief engineer get out of his buggy. I sent off the second signal myself from No. 7 engine house when they commenced to fire cars down about Twentieth street. In the meantime, an alarm came in from East Liberty, and we thought it was the cattle yards there. From the corner of Twenty-second and Liberty streets, we laid a line of hose, but they commenced to cut it as soon as we laid it, and they made us take it up again. A fellow put a pistol to my ear and said, take that up.
Q. Did you know the fellow who did that?
A. No. I have not seen him since. We reeled the hose up. There was no use in getting it out. We could only get into service when the Philadelphia troops came out of the round-house on Sunday morning.
Q. What kind of service did you render during the day?
A. We saved this town from burning down. I don't suppose that ever a body of men worked harder than the Pittsburgh fire department. We did not have a man who was not at his post from ten o'clock on Saturday night until eight o'clock on Monday morning. It was the only body of men in Pittsburgh organized.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were ready to do their duty?
A. They did their duty.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say they saved the city? How?
A. In the first place, when we went into service, opposite the round-house or the machine-shops, there were a lot of frames or tenement houses that were on fire. Well, we put out this fire, and we kept on following the fire down Liberty street, and kept the buildings wetted down. The fire was very intense--very hot, and it was a continual fight with fire all the way down Liberty street.
Q. The crowd of rioters and pillagers were ahead of you?
A. Sometimes they were ahead, and sometimes along with us; sometimes the rioters kept ahead of the fire, and sometimes they were among us.
Q. They didn't break open the cars and pillage them until the fire started along?
A. There were places on Liberty street where no man could have stood, even to wet the houses down, and where they couldn't have pillaged, because it was too hot, and occasionally along Liberty street there were a lot of coal dumps and some oil bins, and where that occurred the heat was very intense. We had to keep things wetted all the time. Along there the pillagers would sometimes be very plenty.
Q. I suppose all the private property burned caught from the heat of the railroad cars?
A. Yes; the only private property that was burned was on Washington street.
Q. Did those houses catch fire, or were they set on fire?
A. They caught from the Union depot.
Q. You saved the private property here by wetting down the buildings?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive any protection from the police force?
A. No; we did not.
Q. At any time?
A. No; not to my knowledge.
Q. You were with the department?
A. I was.
Q. At any time did you receive any protection from the police?
A. No.
Q. If you had been protected by the police, could you have cut the fire and stopped it?
A. We could, at any place.
Q. How many men would it have taken to protect you?
A. I think twenty-five or fifty men, at the outside, could have stopped that burning on Sunday morning. I say that, because there could have been no mistakes. Because, if they had shot some of them down, they could not have made any mistakes. They had no business there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you see the mayor there during the day?
A. I saw the mayor there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was the mayor making any effort to keep back the crowd?
A. I did not see any force of policemen that day, but the mayor appeared to be moving up and down Liberty street. I saw him talking to the rioters.
By Mr. Means:
Q. After the Philadelphia troops left the round-house, how long was it before it was on fire?
A. It was, I think, on fire when they left, because we went up there right away.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say that the round-house was on fire, but we have evidence that it was not?
A. The offices that stood between were certainly on fire, because I worked that stream myself, and the heat got so intense at one time, that we had to move the engine away. The round-house could not help being on fire, for that oil sent down would have put anything on fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were the burning cars around there?
A. They had been sending down the burning cars sometime before.
Q. Then it was afire when they came out?
A. As soon as the troops came out, the chief engineer ordered some apparatus there, and we went there at once. There was almost an entire square on Liberty street, all lumber yards and frame shanties, on fire. And this machine shop was on fire. I am not positive about the two round-houses at that time. I was working there myself.
Q. How many men, do you judge, were engaged in this burning?
A. I cannot tell you that--a great many.
Q. Actively engaged--that is, I want to distinguish between the persons standing around in crowds on the pavements looking on, and the parties actively engaged in the burning?
A. When I was down on Liberty street, there appeared to be a great many people on the railroad track. Of course, they were pillaging then--it was plain--any person could see it. Every now and then you could see the flames bursting out from the cars.
Q. Did you see this crowd--was it an organized effort to follow up the burning--did it seem to be followed systematically?
A. Yes; I think it was organized.
Q. Can you form any idea as to how many were actively engaged?
A. I cannot. I was not on the railroad track that day. Men and women and everything else were on the railroad track.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Behind the fire?
A. Yes; but they kept in front, too.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were pillaging and carrying the things away?
A. Yes; I got down to Eleventh street, and went to the Pan-Handle railroad yard, and they were breaking the cars open and setting the things on fire. I said to them, don't do it, or you will set the city on fire, and they said they did not care a damn if they did.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you know those men?
A. No; I never saw them before or since. On Saturday evening I was sitting in front of the engine house, and some men came up in front and said, "If there is a fire to-night, I suppose you will turn out." I said, "Certainly," when he said, "If you turn out there will be trouble. We will cut your hose and smash your apparatus."
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did he talk as if he came to warn you for that purpose?
A. Yes; he talked as if he came for the purpose of letting us know that. There was a great deal of feeling that night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have none of your engines in service before the troops left?
A. No.
Q. You played on neither private property nor railroad property?
A. No.
Q. Were the crowd generally disorderly?
A. Yes.
Q. Making threats?
A. O, yes; that they would kill the firemen, and one thing and another?
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did you see a proclamation or any official document of the mayor of the city of Pittsburgh ordering the rum shops and drinking saloons to be closed on Saturday or Sunday?
A. I do not know of seeing it. If a proclamation was issued on Saturday, I was not in the city on Saturday afternoon.
Q. Or any proclamation ordering the crowd to disperse?
A. I did not.
Q. No proclamation calling for a police force?
A. No.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the shooting on Saturday night?
A. No; what occurred in the evening I didn't see. I was up there in the morning, but out of the city in the afternoon.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. If a determined effort had been made on Thursday by the mayor with the police force that he had at hand, could he have dispersed the crowd?
A. I do not know of any reason why he should not.
Q. On Friday, do you think so?
A. Yes.
Q. Could he on Saturday, up until the time of the arrival of the militia?
A. It could not have been done on Saturday morning, because the mill men had all commenced to gather.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you think he could have quelled the trouble without calling on the militia--that the police force could have suppressed the riot?
A. That is something I do not pretend to answer. The militia were called out a day or two previous to that. But I think this, that it was unfortunate for this shooting to have occurred in Pittsburgh. My sympathies were with the strikers, but not up to the point of rioting.
Q. You say you thought on Saturday morning the crowd could not have been dispersed without the militia?
A. No.
Q. By the police force?
A. No.
Q. Could the mayor or the sheriff have raised a posse, either in the city or in the county, including both, sufficient to have dispersed the crowd?
A. I think that the mayor of any city of the size of the city of Pittsburgh ought to be able, with his police force, to break up any assemblage of men.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. After the sheriff called upon the Governor for troops, didn't that intensify the feeling in Pittsburgh?
A. It did. I do not think that there was any necessity for that, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State what efforts were made to start trains that day?
A. On Friday afternoon no effort was made. The passenger trains came in on Saturday morning. The troops were mixed with the crowd, and no effort was made to start trains, I went to Allegheny City, and learned of the shooting while coming across the river. I happened to be away when the fun commenced.
At this point the committee adjourned to meet to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.
MORNING SESSION.
ORPHANS' COURT ROOM, PITTSBURGH, Wednesday, February 13, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at ten o'clock A.M., this day, and continued taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was:
* * * * *
Henry Coates, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you a member of the fire department last July?
A. No; I was a member of the police force.
Q. What position did you hold?
A. I was a lieutenant.
Q. How many men did you have control of?
A. I had forty men that night of Saturday.
Q. Where were you on Thursday?
A. Sleeping. We had no day force in the city at that time.
Q. Were you not around during the day, Thursday?
A. No.
Q. Where were you on Friday?
A. In bed.
Q. During the night of Thursday, where were you?
A. On duty from Eleventh street to Thirty-third street.
Q. Taking in Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any disturbance--any overt act?
A. No; but there was a collection of people. Sometimes there would not be over thirty or forty.
Q. What class of people?
A. Railroaders, particularly.
Q. What was the conduct of the people?
A. They were quiet. There was no trouble at all.
Q. Did they remain there?
A. They would pass up and down, talking among themselves.
Q. Hid you have any conversation with them?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask them why they were there?
A. No; it was not an infrequent occurrence to see men there. It is a principal street to go up to go to work.
Q. On Friday night how large was the crowd?
A. One hundred or so.
Q. Were they railroad men on Friday night?
A. Yes; principally. They appeared to be very quiet talking among themselves.
Q. What were they saying?
A. That they did not let me hear.
Q. Did you report to the chief of police or the mayor?
A. I made a report every morning.
Q. You reported that crowd to him?
A. Yes.
Q. But received no orders?
A. No; no orders to disperse them or anything else.
Q. Were the saloons open in that part of the city during Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Were they closed at all?
A. I ordered them to close on Saturday evening.
Q. At what time?
A. About eight o'clock.
Q. During Saturday night, describe what took place?
A. I do not know that I can.
Q. You were not on duty during the firing?
A. No; that took place before we went on duty.
Q. How large was the crowd?
A. They began to come--three or four hundred--or two hundred--squads coming from different places all during Saturday night and Sunday morning. Nearly everybody in the city was in that neighborhood--or the biggest part of them.
Q. What time did the burning commence?
A. In the neighborhood of ten and half or a quarter to eleven o'clock. A crowd had congregated around the fire-alarm box, and would not let the men pull it.
Q. Where did the fire break out first?
A. I was about Twenty-eighth street when it broke out. I should judge between Thirty-first and Thirty-second street on the railroad.
Q. What was set on fire?
A. Oil, from the appearance of the smoke.
Q. What did they do with the cars after they set them on fire?
A. They cut them loose and ran them.
Q. How many men were engaged in that?
A. I cannot say that at all.
Q. Were you near the round-house during the night?
A. Yes; with the mayor of the city. I went to Twenty-seventh street, and passed the round-house, and tried to get in a place where it was reported a lady was shot--opposite the round-house. That was after the firing had taken place--about eleven o'clock.
Q. Did you succeed in getting in?
A. No; it was in a small saloon, and I had notified them in the early part of the evening to close, and for that reason they would not let us in.
Q. Were you there on Sunday morning?
A. Yes; until after the troops left.
Q. Did you see them march out?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did they come out?
A. On Twenty-sixth street--out of the gate.
Q. Did they march in good order?
A. Yes.
Q. Were they fired upon?
A. Not in our neighborhood.
Q. By the crowd?
A. No.
Q. How large a crowd was there or around there when they marched out?
A. I saw one citizen.
Q. Did you know him?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was he?
A. Captain ---- McMunn. There had been quite a crowd before they filed on to Penn street, but they all broke.
Q. They broke when they saw the troops?
A. Yes; the cry was raised when they came out that they were going down to the Union depot, and the mob undertook to get down and cut them off.
Q. The mob broke and ran towards the river?
A. Any place where they could run away.
Q. You mean to say that the mob ran from the military, when they came out?
A. They did.
Q. How long was it before the mob re-assembled?
A. I did not see them re-assemble.
Q. Were you there during the day?
A. Shortly after that I had to come to the central station and take charge of the prisoners we had arrested.
Q. How many prisoners did you have arrested up there?
A. I cannot say the number.
Q. Can you give us an estimate?
A. About seventy-five, I suppose.
Q. What were they arrested for?
A. For having goods in their possession--cloth, and everything they could get hold of.
Q. Did you take them before the mayor?
A. Before Acting-Mayor Butler.
Q. What did he do with them?
A. Some of them were dismissed, and some were sent to jail, and some were fined.
Q. Some were dismissed?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. That I cannot tell you.
Q. Was there no evidence against them?
A. Evidence of having goods in their possession, certainly. We arrested some of them with guns.
Q. Muskets?
A. Yes, and shot guns.
Q. Were any of those dismissed?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. About how many of those were dismissed?
A. That I cannot tell you.
Q. What time did you return to the scene of the riot?
A. After getting through with the prisoners, I was then ordered by the mayor to report to the chief engineer of the fire department for duty.
Q. What did you do?
A. I did all I could. Being an engineer by trade, I took spells at running an engine and worked with them after the neighborhood of seven o'clock that evening.
Q. Were you interfered with by the mob?
A. I was not.
Q. Whereabouts did you work?
A. Generally at the engine.
Q. At what points?
A. Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth, and Seventeenth and Sixteenth streets. And from there I went with the fuel wagon.
Q. Did you receive any assistance from the police?
A. They were there, and doing all they could, but the police was small at that time.
Q. Were you at the Union depot when it was set on fire?
A. No.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Those goods--what became of them?
A. They were turned over to the commissioners, I understood.
Q. They were goods taken out the cars?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why were those prisoners taken before Deputy Mayor Butler?
A. I cannot answer that question.
Q. Where did he sit?
A. In the central station, where we usually held the mayor's court.
Q. The mayor's office?
A. It is the central station-house.
Q. Where the mayor holds his court?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was Mayor McCarthy at that time?
A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. You say the police gave the fire department assistance and protection?
A. I say they assisted, so far as I saw.
* * * * *
William J. Kennedy, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Foreman of engine company No. 3.
Q. Did you occupy that position last July?
A. Yes.
Q. State what part you took in putting out the fire that occurred on the night of the 21st--Saturday night?
A. It was eleven o'clock and twenty minutes when the alarm came first. We started out the house, but we were stopped at the grain elevator. But we got through that crowd, and got on to Penn street, when they began firing at us or at our horses.
Q. How many shots were fired?
A. I cannot tell that. It was just firing here and there along the street.
Q. With pistols and guns?
A. With all kinds of arms.
Q. How long was that kept up?
A. All night until daylight.
Q. Go on and tell us what occurred?
A. We turned on to Liberty street, and at Twenty-first and Liberty they hit me with something, and surrounded the horses. Then we turned on to Penn again, but they wouldn't let us move, so we went towards the river and tried to go down to get up further, but they were waiting there. They had some old muskets and carbines and other things, and if we just moved the horses they would come. We changed to different places from one block to another, but they wouldn't let us lay a line, and wouldn't let us throw any water except private property was in danger. We didn't throw any water until after the troops went out of the round-house in the morning.
Q. Were you present when they went out of the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you at the round-house after they left?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it on fire?
A. Yes. They had to come out. The fire got under them.
Q. Under what part of the round-house?
A. I don't know what part of it, but they set it on fire from Liberty street. They had a hose there, and were throwing water all night. They ran the cars down and tried to set it on fire, but it was all right until the fire got under them.
Q. You say the troops had hose, and kept the fire out until it got under them and drove them out?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know of any oil that was run under them?
A. I don't know that. All I know is, that some liquor was there burning.
Q. How soon did you get to the round-house, after the troops left?
A. As soon as we could.
Q. How extensive was the fire then in the round-house?
A. It was big, and there were lumber yards across the street all afire.
Q. Was the carpenter shop on fire?
A. I don't know whether the carpenter shop was or not.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were any buildings attached to the round-house on fire, or buildings near it?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How large was the crowd when the troops came out?
A. I don't know how large.
Q. What did the crowd do when the troops marched out?
A. They were taking a walk--nobody interfered with the troops. Everybody tried to get out of their road.
Q. And get away?
A. Yes.
Q. In what direction did the crowd go?
A. I don't know.
Q. The crowd didn't attempt to attack the troops?
A. No.
Q. During the day--Sunday and Sunday night--were you interfered with by the crowd in throwing water?
A. Yes--frequently.
Q. To what extent?
A. Different parties kept coming constantly, so that we couldn't do anything. They said: "Don't you throw any water on the railroad property, or we will blow the heads off of you." It was not just one man, but they kept reminding you of it all the time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They allowed you to play on private property?
A. Yes; I turned a stream on the cars at Union depot, when I suppose twenty revolvers were shot at me.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you call on the police force for protection?
A. I would have had to call a good while before I would have got any. I didn't see many of them.
Q. Did they offer any protection to you?
A. Not to me, they didn't.
Q. Did Officer Daniel Motts speak to you at any time, offering to protect you?
A. He spoke to me several times during the night, but never offered me any protection. There was no occasion to offer me any, as both the chiefs were there.
Q. And he didn't offer you any protection?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he give you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did he tell you, if you would commence playing on a certain point, that the police would protect you?
A. He didn't.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did any police officer?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. In your examination, you have stated that you went to the round-house as soon as you could, after the troops left?
A. Yes; and went into service.
Q. How long was it after the troops left until you got playing upon the fire at the round-house?
A. I cannot tell you exactly, but it was very quick?
Q. Half an hour?
A. No; it was not ten minutes until we were throwing water.
Q. Then the fire had made considerable progress in the round-house?
A. Yes; and across the street in the lumber yards.
Q. Do you know, of your own personal knowledge, that the fire department did call upon the mayor for protection?
A. I cannot say. I saw the mayor there in a buggy.
Q. He didn't offer you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you think, with the fire department, you could have cut the fire and stopped it during Sunday, if you had had protection?
A. I don't know whether we could have stopped it, it was on fire in too many different places; but I think we could have picked out twenty-five men and saved Union depot from burning.
Q. Do you mean you could have prevented the mob from firing it?
A. Yes.
Q. With twenty-five policemen?
A. With twenty-five good men of any kind.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you mean that it could have been stopped at that time and place?
A. Yes.
Q. And that you could have prevented the spreading of the fire?
A. Yes; if I had had that number of determined men.
Q. Did you see those parties who set Union depot on fire?
A. No.
Q. Was there no effort made when they set the sheds on fire to tear the sheds down and stop the fire?
A. Not that I saw--not by the police, that I saw. We did all we could. We kept following up the fire.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there no effort made during the day, Sunday, to stop the progress of those men in setting fire to the cars and the depot?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. You were not present when the mayor made a speech to the crowd?
A. No.
* * * * *
John M. Miller, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. On Second avenue.
Q. What was your connection with the fire department in July last?
A. I was an engineer.
Q. What time did you go to the scene of the fire?
A. About twenty minutes after eleven o'clock.
Q. Saturday night?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you interfered with by the crowd?
A. We were fired at and told to go slow, you sons of bitches, all the way, but nobody struck us. I don't know whether they fired at us or not, but our foreman, I believe, was struck in the back.
Q. Did they strike any of your horses?
A. That I cannot tell. I was behind the engine.
Q. Where did you commence work?
A. We were off with the engine about a square from the fire, and commenced work first at Twenty-sixth street. I don't know where they had the hose placed. They told us not to throw on the railroad property, or they would cut our hose, and they tried to prevent me putting on my suction hose. We had to talk to them, and tell them we were not going to play on the railroad property before they would allow us to make any attachment at all.
Q. How long did you remain at work playing on the fire?
A. We returned home at ten o'clock Monday morning, I think it was.
Q. During the day, Sunday, were you interfered with by the mob?
A. They spoke to us, and a drunken fellow told us, if we played on the railroad property, that they would blow our heads off.
Q. Were you protected by the police?
A. The police was a disorganized body--no two of them were together, I don't believe. I never saw over two together the whole day.
Q. Did you call on the police for protection?
A. I didn't.
Q. Did the police offer you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did Officer Daniel Motts say anything to you at any time?
A. Daniel Motts and a man named Coulston came to us before the round-house caught on fire, about one o'clock that night, and asked us what we were standing there for, and not throwing any water. I said that the mob wouldn't allow us, and they said, I believe, they would protect us. I said, I am not the proper person, as the chief is here, and as we have orders to stand here and wait further orders. But the way they spoke to me, I thought it was in a joking way, because the only protection they could offer wouldn't have amounted to anything. I told them I was not the proper person, that the chief was there.
Q. Did they ask you to play upon any particular point of the fire, and say they would protect you?
A. No; they didn't. The cars were burning above the round-house at the time, but the round-house was not burning at the time.
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. No; but I saw them after they came out.
Q. How soon did you get up there after the troops went out?
A. In about twenty minutes or twenty-five minutes.
Q. Was the round-house on fire when you got there?
A. It was burning bad.
Q. Was it burning before they came out?
A. Yes; that is what chased them out. I understood afterwards that they came out of the carpenter shop.
Q. Was the carpenter shop burned afterwards?
A. That I cannot say. We were ordered away below that again.
Q. What became of the crowd when the troops came out?
A. They ran pell mell, and fell over each other. The troops could have marched down Liberty street and drove them. The mob were cowards when daylight shown on them. They had plenty of guns, but not much ammunition for them. They were drunk, and that was what gave courage to the most of them.
Q. Those drunken men, when daylight came, what became of them?
A. They staggered off, and went to sleep or something. They had plenty of liquor.
Q. How many were engaged in firing the cars during the day--Sunday?
A. Not over ten or twelve men. Some of them were boys fourteen or fifteen years of age. The most conspicuous man was a man with one arm.
Q. Were you close?
A. I was; at Twenty-first and Liberty street.
Q. Did you follow down with your department?
A. When the fire broke out down below amongst the cars we were ordered further down. We went then to Twelfth and Liberty streets, that is from Twenty-first to Twelfth.
Q. Was any effort made by either the police or the militia or any person to stop this gang who were firing the cars?
A. None at all. There were plenty of people outside in sympathy with those who were setting fire, and who were handing drinks up to them, and some women were carrying coffee, and handing it to them?
Q. What class of women?
A. They looked like Irish women.
Q. What classes of men were about that day who appeared to be in sympathy with them?
A. It generally was the Irish. Most every person that spoke to us about not playing on the fire was Irish, that is, had the brogue on the tongue.
Q. Were they railroad men, or did they belong to any particular class in the city. Mill men, or any particular class of people?
A. I didn't recognize any of them that I knew personally.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You say they were handing coffee up to those people. It must have been made in the vicinity of the fire?
A. Yes; or else carried some distance. It appeared to be hot coffee.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where was the mayor during the day Sunday?
A. I cannot say; I didn't see him at all.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. After the soldiers marched out the round-house, if they had torn up the track, would it have prevented any further firing west?
A. Previous to the round-house being set on fire?
Q. Afterwards?
A. It would; but they would have followed on down.
Q. But couldn't the soldiers have checked them there?
A. Yes; I think the soldiers could have cleared the whole track after daylight on Sunday, cleared the whole track.
Q. The soldiers or the mayor's posse?
A. I don't know about the mayor's posse. They didn't appear to be so much afraid of the posse as of the guns.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I understand you to say that no attempt was made by either the civil authorities or the military authorities to stop the fire on Sunday, or to clear the track?
A. There was no attempt at all.
Q. Of course, you cannot tell what would have been the result, if an attempt had been made--it is a mere matter of opinion as to what would have been the result?
A. I believe so; but that is my opinion. I feel certain that they could.
Q. You spoke of the police force not being organized. What was the organization of the fire department?
A. The organization of the fire department was perfect. All the men were at their posts all the time, ready to do what they were ordered to do.
Q. How many were at their posts?
A. All the men that were on the force. The force had been reduced, but some of the men that had been put off were helping.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You say those members of the department that had been put off didn't refuse to assist you?
A. Not at all!
By Mr. Lindsey?
Q. How many men were discharged from the fire department?
A. Some twenty-two.
Q. How many of those men came back to your assistance?
A. Through the whole department I cannot say, but of our company I saw a couple of them. Of course, they had their favorite companies. And then there were plenty of volunteers of the old members of the volunteer department.
Q. Who appoints the fire commissioners?
A. They are elected by city councils.
Q. They have control of the fire department?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether the fire commissioners are subject to the control of any higher body?
A. I don't think they are. I think they are given full power.
Q. Do you know what the law is in regard to that?
A. I don't. I have never examined it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What appeared to be the disposition of the crowd surrounding that fire--did they appear to be in sympathy with the rioters?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. Some of the crowd were gathered there out of curiosity?
A. I would have them all around the engine. It was a regular hum, just like bees--everybody seemed to be talking.
Q. Was there any general expression against the soldiery?
A. I believe there was, after they fired on the mob. I believe some classes of men had a feeling against the soldiers, but I believe the better class of citizens had not.
Q. You say the soldiers could have cleared the tracks and dispersed the mob, when they came out of the round-house?
A. They could--if they had opened with the Gatling guns, there would not have been a soul in sight for fifteen squares.
Q. Do you know whether the officers of the soldiery in the round-house had any communication with anybody outside, during the night?
A. I don't think they had, to my knowledge.
Q. None of them were passing back and forth, between the round-house and outside?
A. That I cannot say. I was not close enough to it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. The soldiers had no means of knowing that the crowd had become dispersed, or weakened, or drunken?
A. I don't think they had. I think the soldiers thought the whole community was against them. If they had known that they could have come out, and drove the mob down, I think they would have done it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Officer Coulston has testified, that the round-house was not on fire where the troops came out--that he went through the building. Could he have gone through those buildings soon after the troops evacuated them?
A. He couldn't. He might have gone into the carpenter shop, or the paint shop, but the flames were coming out of all the windows of the round-house. Nobody could have lived there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Could a man have got on to the engines as they stood in the stalls?
A. He might, in one part by the carpenter shop, but I don't think he could have lived in any part of it, on account of the heat.
* * * * *
Daniel J. Eckels, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. 135 Second avenue.
Q. Were you connected with the fire department in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. What position did you hold?
A. I was engineer of company No. 2.
Q. State when you arrived at the fire, and how long you remained there?
A. Probably between twelve and one o'clock on Sunday morning. We could not go into service. We waited there on the street by the Independence engine-house. We stayed at the fire until after the troops came out of the round-house.
Q. During the day--Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. And Sunday night?
A. Yes.
Q. Until Monday morning?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you assisted by the police force at any time?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did you see any policemen about there?
A. I cannot say that I did; but I did hear that at one place where we were working the mayor was around, but I did not see him.
Q. Did you see Mayor McCarthy at any time?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Was any attempt made during the entire day of Sunday to stop the men who were engaged in the burning?
A. Not that I know of.
* * * * *
J. F. Rivers, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. On Mulberry street, above Twenty-fifth.
Q. What is your business?
A. I had been a detective in the employ of the city of Pittsburgh previous to July 12.
Q. What position did you hold at the time of the riot?
A. I held no position; but I lived within three squares of the scene, and consequently had considerable interest in the riot. I was away from the city; but I came back on Friday evening. I heard that there was a strike among the railroad men, and, as I knew a great many of them, I was very much interested in their behalf. I went up to the upper round-house on Saturday morning, and there I saw a great many railroad men, and a good many outsiders, that I knew were attracted there for, probably, the same reason I was. They were very orderly, and I saw no trouble there. It did not look as though there was going to be any trouble. I came down to the city and saw the troops at Union depot towards noon, and went up to my home, and saw the troops up on the hill. I paid no more attention to it until towards evening, when I heard the troops had fired upon the crowd. Then I went up there. I was trying to find my two boys. The crowd was then gathering to the number of thousands, and the people were very much excited, and expressed themselves that the troops ought to be cleaned out, and all such language as that. I went away from there, and towards dark I went out towards Twenty-fifth street, and saw the troops had been moved from the Twenty-eighth street position to the round-house, or square-house. The carpenter shop is on one side of Twenty-sixth street, and the round-house and office of the assistant superintendent is on the left hand side opposite. The round-house is a little back of the office, and the outer circle of the round-house comes on the line of Liberty street, and there is a railroad track in front of it belonging to the Valley Railroad Company. The crowd was in front of there; the soldiers were in the round-house and in the carpenter shop. The crowd was there, and probably thirty men were jeering at the soldiers. I did not know any of them; but I went in among the men and I said, "boys, if those men come out you will have to go away, as you do not have any business here." I said, "these men are strangers, and you ought to treat them differently." They said, "we will have them out if we have got to roast them out." I felt some interest in the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and in the interest of good behavior I come down the street, and tried to find some railroad officers to communicate my belief that there would be a fire and trouble. I tried to find some of the railroad officers, but could not do it. It was then after dark--after night. I went towards my home, and I met the crowd on Liberty street going to Union depot. I went up to one man I knew, who was tried in court last week, and I said "the railroad company has conceded to the demands of their employés." I had understood something of that sort. He said "it was too damned thin," and went into the depot, and a short time after there was an alarm of fire. At the corner of Twenty-fifth and Penn avenue the Independence apparatus was stopped by men pointing pistols, and saying if they proceeded any further they would kill their horses. I spoke to the parties that did that loud talking, and they said it did not make any difference--that they had no right to go up and throw water on the railroad property. I said: "These men are responding to a call, and they must obey, and you should not interfere with them." I then went away to see the extent of the fire. I went to Twenty-eighth street, and between there and Twenty-ninth, on Liberty, I saw the burning cars running down the grade towards the Twenty-eighth street crossing. But a switch was turned wrong or something, and the cars ran off the track. They set fire to what is known as the sand-house, and that is the first building that caught fire, and from that the fire communicated to the upper round-house, I think. The fire burned very slow. It appeared to me to be started by people that wanted to plunder, which they did, for they carried out great quantities of goods that day and the next day. The fire burned very slow--I never saw a fire burn so slow in my life. I did not see whether the fire department went into service that night or not. Next morning I saw the troops as they came up Liberty street on to Twenty-fifth, and marched out Penn avenue. I did not see much of any mob at that time. Then the fire department went into service. I saw no person particularly setting things on fire, but I saw two men coming from under a car off the track, in front of the round-house, just at Twenty-sixth street. The car was loaded with liquor, and just shortly after they came out and went away the car caught fire, and then the round-house and the shop and the offices and all caught fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Before or after the troops came out?
A. A portion of it--the square shop that they came out of was set on fire afterwards. The building was L shaped, and there was a fire in the rear of it, and there might have been a fire--but I won't be positive--but there might have been a fire in the L that ran towards the road, but none in the L on Liberty street when they came out; and they had made some efforts to protect themselves against fire, because I discovered some leather hose, that the railroad company had in the premises, after the troops came out. The fire then kept burning down gradually on Liberty street down the railroad, and the people kept carrying off the goods all day Sunday. Down at the Union depot--previous to that catching fire--I was in there, and saw that the parties had moved as many of the goods as they could, and I saw no person trying to stop them. They set the depot master's office on fire, and then a burning car was run down into the depot, and that fired it. I saw the troops marching down Twenty-fifth street towards Penn, and saw them march up Penn.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Can you tell us what portion of the round-house, or the buildings attached to it, were on fire when they left?
A. I do not know, but there might have been a fire in the rear of the round-house--the portion of it that is next to the main line might have been afire--and as I said before, this L of the carpenter shop might have been afire previous to the vacation, but I do not know it; but, from my recollection of it, the fire burned so slow that there must have been a fire in there before they got out, because when it caught from the burning car on Liberty street, the whole building appeared to be enveloped at once.
Q. Did you see the troops fired on as they went out?
A. I saw one man fire, I think, twice. He attempted to run into my yard, and I kicked him out, and I said "if you want to fire on those men go out and do it, but you cannot do it here." He ran out and shot at them with a pistol. Somebody returned the fire, and he quit following them any further.
Q. Did you know him?
A. No; I never saw him before. I know a great many men here; but I knew very few men that took part in the riot.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You were around through the crowd?
A. Yes.
Q. And could judge of the crowd?
A. The men I saw jeering the soldiers penned in there, I did not know any of them, nor I do not think they knew me, because I think if they had known I was an officer, or had been one, I think they would have made it lively for me, because I have the idea that they would have thought I was there in the line of my business. I did not know any of them. But this man, Richardson, that was tried last week, I saw him and spoke to him about half past nine o'clock on Saturday night, and told him that the railroad company had conceded to the wishes of the men, and he said that was too damned thin, and went on.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In your experience as a detective in this city, you have gained an extensive knowledge of the people?
A. Yes.
Q. And from the general appearance of that mob you think they were strangers, and did not belong in the city.
A. Yes; that is, the ringleaders. I was at one time on the Pennsylvania railroad, a number of years ago, and in consequence of that, I know a great many railroad men, employés of the road, and I saw none of them engaged in this riot. When I first went up there, in the morning, I saw a great many I knew, railroad men, but they were all quiet and orderly.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you have any conversation with them as to the reasons or causes that led to the strike?
A. Yes; their grievances were, as far as they told me, that they had been required to put on double-headers, and the reduction in the number of their men that they would lose so many men, as they called it, in a crew.
Q. Did they express any intention of using violence?
A. Not that I heard. I did not hear a man say a word that would tend to show he was going to use any violence. I remarked to four or five of them standing together: "If the mayor sends his police here and orders you fellows away from here, you have no business here on this property, and you must go."
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What day was that?
A. On Saturday morning, about ten o'clock.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you hear any of those railroad men speak of a preconcerted arrangement for a general strike through the country?
A. I never did.
Q. At that time?
A. No.
Q. Nor since?
A. No.
* * * * *
Michael Hannigan, sworn with uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. No. 45, Grant street.
Q. What was your business in July last.
A. I was acting foreman of engine company No. 2.
Q. What time did you visit the scene of the riot?
A. Between one and two o'clock on Sunday morning.
Q. At what point did you stop first?
A. We answered box No. 62, and then the chief gave us orders to stop at Twenty-third and Penn, and not make any attachment until we got further orders.
Q. How large was the crowd at that time?
A. A great many men were scattered along the street as we were going to the box. The fire was down as far as Twenty-third street by that time. By daylight it got warm at Twenty-third and Liberty, and the chief got permission from the mob to lay a line of hose so that a foundry there might not take fire. We afterwards went to Twenty-sixth street, but could not get across there as the soldiers were firing across Twenty-sixth street.
Q. What time was that?
A. An hour after we were at Twenty-third street.
Q. After daylight?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you visit the round-house after the troops left?
A. It was impossible for anybody to go there. The upper building was completely burned when we went into service. It is a square building.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Attached to or in close proximity to the round-house?
A. Yes. The roof had fallen in when we laid the line of hose. That was in ten minutes after the soldiers had left the round-house.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long before the round-house was consumed by fire?
A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. Did the soldiers march out in good order?
A. I did not see the soldiers except at a distance.
Q. Did you remain on duty during the day Sunday?
A. Yes; and up until Monday morning at ten o'clock.
Q. Had the fire stopped when you left?
A. Yes, We were on Washington street.
Q. What stopped the crowd from plundering and burning?
A. I do not know that.
Q. After they fired Union depot, did they fire any other property?
A. There was a depot fired on the west side.
Q. How far down towards the city did the crowd come?
A. It was down there on Seventh avenue.
Q. How large a crowd was on Seventh avenue?
A. From the Rush House down to Seventh avenue--ten thousand men--you could hardly get through.
Q. Were there any police there to arrest the crowd?
A. I did not see any.
Q. Did you see the crowd when they dispersed from that point?
A. No.
Q. Were you assisted at any time during the fire by the police?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you protected?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask for protection?
A. No; the mob had a cannon planted at Twenty-seventh street, pointed right at the engine, and they said if you play on the railroad property we will raise you. We did not want to be raised.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who made those threats?
A. That I can not tell you.
Q. Was any effort made by the mob to set fire to private property, that you saw?
A. I did not see any of that.
Q. On Sunday night they had finished all the railroad property?
A. I think the last they set afire was that depot on Grant street.
Q. What became of the mob after that time?
A. I do not know, but I heard several citizens express themselves that they were getting tired of this work. We were then on Bedford avenue. They said they were going too far with it.
Q. Citizens said that?
A. Yes.
Q. What citizens made those remarks?
A. I do not recollect.
Q. Where were the mob during Sunday night?
A. I did not see any of the mob at the time we went out. I saw a great many people on the street. We had to go very slow. They were using all kinds of threats.
Q. When you left, on Monday morning, was everything quiet?
A. Everything was quiet then.
Q. Where had these people gone?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did you see the mayor about at any time?
A. Once, at the corner of Twentieth and Liberty streets, standing against a gas post.
Q. What time was that?
A. In the afternoon--I do not recollect the hour.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know whether the round-house was on fire when the military left it?
A. Yes; at least that building was.
Q. How long after the military left did you go to the round-house?
A. While I walked from the corner of Twenty-fourth up to Twenty-sixth street.
* * * * *
Colonel D. L. Smith, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the city of Allegheny.
Q. Do you hold any official position?
A. I am one of the aldermen of that city.
Q. Where were you at the time of the riots in July last?
A. I was at my home in Allegheny city.
Q. What occurred there in regard to the riots, that you have any knowledge of?
A. About half past five o'clock in the evening, on the day that the soldiers fired in the crowd, my office boy came to my office and reported to me in great excitement, that the soldiers had fired on and killed a number of the citizens. I then went to the scene of the trouble, and remained there until about eight o'clock in the evening.
Q. What time did you get there?
A. At six o'clock. The troops had just gone into the round-house as I got there. I returned to my office after eight o'clock, and when the cars were fired at eleven o'clock, I saw the light and heard the alarm, and immediately went to the scene, and remained there until four o'clock in the morning. I then returned home, and remained at home until one o'clock, and then came to Pittsburgh again and remained until nine o'clock.
Q. What did you observe?
A. One or two wounded men being carried from the ground. I observed a disorganized mass of people standing in groups, numbering perhaps six or eight hundred, discussing the fire and passing their comments on it.
Q. This crowd of people you saw there--of what class was it composed?
A. There were some few railroad employés, but the most of them I recognized as mill hands from the different rolling-mills. I knew many of them personally.
Q. A portion of them from your city?
A. Yes; attracted by excitement to the fire. Some remained there.
Q. What were those mill hands doing when you went there?
A. Discussing the question involved in the railroad strikes, and some of them were using threats. One man remarked, if the firing went on, that there wouldn't be a dollar's worth of railroad property left in the county of Allegheny at nine o'clock the next morning. Quite a number of persons I recognized as persons I knew to be workingmen from other sections. I know a great many of the Pittsburgh workingmen.
Q. You say from other sections?
A. I judged them to be miners and mill hands, attracted here from outlying counties--attracted by news of the riot; in fact, in conversation with some, they informed me they had come from different places.
Q. From communities within a short distance of the city?
A. Yes.
Q. Were that class of men taking part in the disturbance?
A. At that time there was no disturbance. It was very peaceful, except the grumbling. But at eleven o'clock, I was on the railroad track, and I noticed three men breaking into and taking the contents of a car.
Q. Did you know who those men were?
A. No; they appeared to be workingmen, and some of them appeared to be familiar with handling cars from the manner in which they proceeded to open the cars. I went down and remonstrated with them, and they treated me very civilly--didn't seem to take as an insult my interference. I remarked that the railroad company would not be the sufferer. They paid no particular attention, and I told them, you men will certainly be punished for this. I told them I was a magistrate, and had come in my official capacity to try and quell the disturbance; but they paid no attention. There was no riot at that time. They went peaceably about it.
Q. Did they get the goods out?
A. Yes; they threw them out promiscuously. The greater number of goods were carried away by girls about sixteen years of age and by boys up to twenty years of age. The goods were carried away by residents of the immediate neighborhood. I then went up to where they were setting fire to the oil cars, and there were probably not more than eight or ten men engaged in that.
Q. Who were they?
A. I do not know. They seemed to be workingmen from their garb. I knew them to be workingmen, and several of them I knew were familiar with operating railroads, from the fact that they knew how to open the switches, and run the cars into position, and they handled the cars with the experience of practical mechanics.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you mean they were railroad men?
A. Certainly; some of them. At this time probably twenty cars were on fire, and there were not over one hundred and fifty persons altogether on the railroad tracks.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What hour was this?
A. Twelve o'clock on Saturday night. Just then a man came from the crowd of rioters--there was a crowd collected in front of the round-house for the purpose of fighting the militia--and he jumped on to a flat car and drew a sword--he had a belt around him, but had no uniform--and he immediately ordered them to stop burning the cars and pillaging the trains, saying that they had come not to burn and pillage, but to fight the military.
Q. Who was he?
A. He was evidently a leader, but I did not know him. He was from the party that came from Birmingham. Immediately when he jumped on that car, somebody hallooed "police," and in five minutes there was not a man left on the railroad track. The cry of "police" cleared the whole thing out, and any two police officers could have preserved the peace.
Q. You think that a small force of police there could have straightened things up?
A. At no time more than twenty men were engaged in the burning.
Q. How long did you stay?
A. Until four o'clock in the morning.
Q. You say those carrying off the goods were mostly children?
A. They were mostly young--girls and boys. At one o'clock in the morning I passed the police station on Penn street, in the immediate vicinity, and the police officers were arresting every person passing with goods and there was no resistance. They had perfect control. A mob amounting to not more than five hundred persons was standing near, and they had a cannon commanding the round-house, but the soldiers had covered it with their arms, and had killed one or two of the rioters. The mob engaged in fighting the soldiers were not engaged in the burning and pillaging. I went among them. One of them called me by name. I knew his face. He said, "Alderman, don't go down that way; they will shoot you." But I said, "No," and passed on through them. I said to him, "You had better go home," when he said that they had come for the purpose of fighting the militia, and were going to fight them.
Q. What time was that?
A. About four o'clock. It was just breaking day.
Q. Now, this mob gathered around in the vicinity of the round-house--what was that mob composed of?
A. I recognized that mob as composed nearly all of people who were working men from the south side of the river.
Q. That is, Birmingham?
A. Yes; some few of them were citizens that I knew. And I would state that some few were armed, but showed no disposition to violence except that they had an antipathy to the soldiers that had fired on their relatives. I mention this fact to show that there should be a distinction between the rioters proper and the plunderers. They didn't seem to be acting in concert. A posse of police of twenty men could have protected all the property that night.
Q. Did you hear any body state that the rioters or the mob had prevented the fire department from throwing water on the railroad property?
A. I did not. But I have no doubt they would have prevented it, from the disposition of the mob. I didn't see any person setting fire to the Union depot. I took my stand at the elevator. I met one of the clerks belonging to the company, and he told me that they had refused to let them take their books out. I said, come back with me, and I will take them out. So I went back and stationed myself at the elevator, to save it, if I could, by my presence there, and by calling a posse comitatus. But I could not get any person to serve. The sheds below Union depot were then taking fire, and two or three men came, and wanted to go into the elevator. I told them not to go in. At this time not less than twenty thousand people were there--men, women, and children--but there was no rioting, and there were not more than eight or ten or a score of men engaged in spreading the fire at that time. They seemed to be peaceable.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean the men who were setting things on fire?
A. Yes; they went to it deliberately'.
Q. You spoke about raising a posse comitatus?
A. I tried to raise it. I called on a gentleman from Allegheny, named Gray. I summoned him to my assistance, but he refused to act, but said if I could get ten more he would do so. I afterwards saw some other parties, but while they deprecated the burning, they said it was worth their lives to interfere. I then went with Mr. Gray down to where the men were running the burning cars, and tried to reason with them. At that time probably twenty men were engaged in that, besides the persons engaged in carrying the things off. And by that time they had gotten into liquor, and were pretty well intoxicated. On Sunday afternoon I also tried to raise a posse comitatus. I called on some citizens that I knew, but they were afraid to do anything, alleging that the military and police should do it.
Q. What reasons did they give?
A. That they did not want to jeopardize their lives.
Q. Was the elevator set on fire while you were there?
A. No; I left, and supposed the elevator was safe, and went down to Seventh avenue, where the depot of the Pan Handle road was just being set on fire. I remained there some time, and then went to Allegheny to get my supper, and came back. While crossing the bridge, I noticed the fire coming from the elevator. I remained in the vicinity of the fire until between nine and ten o'clock that night, and at that time there was no further spreading of the destruction. The citizens, in the meantime, had organized a police, and there had, apparently, been a number of arrests made.
Q. As soon as the police began making arrests, the citizens took the matter into their own hands, and the destruction ceased?
A. Yes; and that is what convinced me that a posse of twenty policemen could have prevented the destruction. But at any time during Saturday night, if a police officer had gone into the crowd to arrest a man, the mob would have interfered with him--I am satisfied of that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When you told those persons to stop setting fire, did they obey your orders?
A. On Saturday night they paid no attention, but they didn't interfere with me.
Q. You asserted your authority as far you could?
A. As far as I could, and they respected my authority when I asserted it resolutely. Then they gave way. I went to Allegheny to try to summon a posse comitatus, but I found it collected, and I then repaired to the mayor's office, in Allegheny, and took part with them for the protection of our city. In our city, I may say, that no destruction occurred. The railroad men took possession of the railroad property there. I think they took possession first on Thursday evening. Nothing was destroyed. The railroad men--those I conversed with--said that they had determined to protect the railroad property against any mob.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What did they say was their object in taking possession of the railroad property?
A. Well--my office seems to be a general receptacle for persons of diverse opinions. Some of these railroad men came to me with their complaints. I was told their grievances, and that their purpose was merely the restoration of the ten per cent. reduction.
Q. Those were employés of what railroad?
A. The Pittsburgh, Port Wayne and Chicago road. They admitted their actions were contrary to law, and that they might be amenable, but still they asserted their assumed right to stop the running of trains until their demands were complied with.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say they asserted their right to stop the trains?
A. An assumed right. They supposed they had such a right. Some of them supposed, ignorantly, that they had such a right--a great many of them honestly believed that.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did they claim that they had any right to set themselves up against the authorities?
A. No; at no time; as they construed the laws of the Commonwealth, they did not want to set themselves up against them.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you know what the feeling was in this city when the strike broke out?
A. I know that the people of the city of Pittsburgh almost universally condemned the reduction of the salaries of the railroad men at that time. The strikers knew that they had the sympathies of the people of Allegheny county--of all classes--in their efforts to have a living rate of wages restored to them, and thousands of people not engaged in the strike, on that Saturday afternoon, in July last, were gathered in the vicinity of the Pennsylvania railroad workshops, not for the purpose of violating any law, but either from motives of sympathy with the strikers or prompted by curiosity to witness the military. It may be inferred, that at least one half of those people were women and children, and these, without warning, were fired into and many of them killed or wounded. Of course, this caused universal indignation and condemnation, and was the occasion of all the subsequent troubles and destruction. A pacific course pursued towards these men would have avoided the catastrophe that followed. The first great blunder in dealing with the strikers in Pittsburgh, was in the attempt to operate the road by the use of a military force, instead of using the troops to preserve order and to keep the peace.
Q. You say that the sympathies of the people of Pittsburgh were with the strikers or with the railroad employés and against the reduction of their wages. Do you mean as long as no overt act was committed? Or what did they regard as an overt act?
A. They would have regarded as an overt act the destruction of property.
Q. Did they regard the stopping of trains as an overt act?
A. I think that certain classes of people did not regard the stopping of the trains an overt act, but they would have regarded the forcible taking of men from the trains--men who were willing to work--or the preventing them from working, as an overt act.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you tell us what you did in your own city--tell us how you managed the trouble there?
A. The authorities of Allegheny managed the strikers differently--in a different way from that pursued in Pittsburgh. Several days prior to the burning in Pittsburgh, the strikers took possession of the railroad tracks, and the workshops of the Pennsylvania company operating the Pittsburgh, Port Wayne and Chicago railroad. They threw up breast-works, and held armed possession of the railroad property, and even took possession of, and regulated the running of passenger trains and the United States mail trains. At all interviews, they insisted that it was not their intention to destroy property, but to protect the railroad property, and that they wouldn't commit any overt act in violation of law, as they understood it. Many of them believed they were not violating any law, and assumed that they had a right to accomplish the object they had in view, by the method they then were pursuing. The authorities and the citizens of Allegheny City knew that they were dealing with a powerful, intelligent, and well organized body of men, who were determined and resolute in their purposes. To have attempted to force those men from their position, would have precipitated the same troubles that culminated in Pittsburgh a few days subsequently. So the citizens appealed to the better judgment of those strikers, they reasoned with them, and instead of irritating them, or attempting to force them, they permitted them to have their own way, believing that the railroad officials and their employés, would, in a few days, adjust all differences. This policy, under the circumstances, proved to be a wise one, as when danger came, and when the mob were burning and destroying in Pittsburgh, the strikers in Allegheny actually removed all the rolling stock out of the way of danger, and volunteered to assist the organized citizens in protecting the depots and workshops, and all other railroad property in the city of Allegheny. Had the same policy been pursued in Pittsburgh, there would have been no destruction of property.
Q. You were in the army. What position in the army did you hold during the late war?
A. In 1861--in May, 1861--1 enlisted as a soldier, and was elected lieutenant of my company, and went out as a member of the Second Virginia regiment, as lieutenant, and afterwards became captain of my company.
Q. Was it a Union regiment?
A. Yes. We went to Wheeling to protect the people, and our services were accepted by the people of West Virginia. On the 19th of February, 1862, I was appointed commissary assistant by the Secretary of War, and that position I held until about the 1st day of September, 1862, when I was assigned to duty as chief commissary of the Twelfth army corps. About the 15th of March, 1863, I was assigned to duty as chief commissary of the Fifth army corps, with the rank of lieutenant colonel, on General Meade's staff.
Q. How long did you occupy that position?
A. Until I was mustered out of the service, or until the corps was disbanded, in September, 1865. I remained in service until March, 1866.
Q. What business have you been engaged in since the war?
A. For the last eight years I have been an alderman of the city of Allegheny. The year before that, 1 was a member of the Legislature.
Q. From the time you left the army until you were elected a member of the Legislature what business were you engaged in?
A. 1 was following my occupation as a scrivener.
Q. Where did you reside before going into the army?
A. From the year 1836, until I went into the army, in this county.
Q. What business were you engaged in?
A. When I went into the army I was chief clerk in the county commissioners' office of Allegheny county. Prior to that I was a clerk in a store.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Something has been said about picketing the railroad track where the riot occurred. Now, taking into consideration the number of cars around there, how many troops would it have taken to reasonably picket the track and the ground there in possession of the mob?
A. The ground in possession of the mob, from the round-house out to Lawrenceville, I think could have been sufficiently picketed by one hundred men on both sides. At no time were more than one hundred persons on the ground from twelve o'clock that night until four o'clock in the morning, from the round-house out to Two Mile run. I consider that the movement of the military into the round-house, at the time, was a good one, but they should have picketed the railroad, and all the approaches to the round-house. To have retired on the bluff, above the railroad tracks, would have been a military blunder, for if they were not strong enough to protect themselves where the cars and buildings afforded them shelter, they certainly could not have held a position on the hill face, where they could have been attacked from the open fields above them, and been within easy range of masked or rifle shots from the houses fronting on Liberty street. No officer of any military experience would have selected that hill face to bivouac his troops, under the circumstances then existing, but the retreat of two regiments of well armed and equipped soldiers, commanded by officers of undoubted courage, and large military experience in the face of a disorganized mob, was certainly a inexplicable blunder.
Q. You did not see the crowd before it was fired into and dispersed by the military?
A. I did not. I only arrived there afterward.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Now in your judgment, as a military man, do you think that there was any necessity for calling on the military to quell this riot?
A. I do not. I honestly believe that if the authorities of the county or Allegheny, or the city of Pittsburgh, had summoned a sufficient posse comitatus, they could have preserved the peace. They might not have been able to run the railroad cars, but the peace could have been preserved without calling the military.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. From your observations during this disturbance, what opinion have you of the conduct of the officers and those in charge of the military?
A. I was not brought in contact with them, except with Colonel Gray, of one of our regiments, after the firing. I went to where he had bivouacked on the railroad track, and he had one hundred and twenty men with him at the time. He said he was there for the purpose of obeying orders, and that his men would stay by him. He had no orders at that time. I asked him particularly whether he had any orders, and he said he had none. I asked him whether he thought he could preserve the peace, and he said he could. I think he said that the firing on the people was a mistake, and was done without orders, but if I had been there I would have ordered the mob to disperse, and then fired on them with blank cartridges.
Q. From your knowledge of these men as soldiers during the war, do you think they were competent or incompetent men?
A. I know General Pearson well. I knew him in the army, and I know what his military record was in the army, and there is no young officer in the United States service who has a prouder record as a brave, a careful, and discreet soldier. He served in our own corps, and I had daily opportunity of knowing what his military services and military abilities were, and his record in the army was certainty vary creditable to him. I also knew General Brinton in our corps, and I know that his record is equally good.
By Mr. Means:
Q. They were good soldiers, ready to obey orders at all times?
A. Yes; and had those two officers had the management of this affair, without being amenable to superiors, much of the destruction would have been avoided.
Q. You mean Generals Pearson and Brinton?
A. Yes; they had, to my certain knowledge, years of experience in the army--active experience as soldiers.
Adjourned.
MORNING SESSION.
PITTSBURGH, Wednesday, February 20, 1878.
The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M. Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All the members present except Messrs. Reyburn and Torbert.
* * * * *
Daniel Corbus, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Examined by Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. New Brighton, Beaver county.
Q. How long have you resided there?
A. I was born there in 1839.
Q. What is your business?
A. Wire drawer by trade.
Q. State whether you were in Pittsburgh when the disturbances of last July first broke out?
A. I was not there at the breaking out of it. I arrived here the same day, about a quarter past one, I suppose--Liberty street.
Q. State what you saw and heard?
A. Saturday night the news was very exciting out home, and Sunday morning at eleven o'clock I took the express and arrive I here at the city--Federal street--about twelve o'clock I should judge it was. Came over to Fifth street and got my dinner. Went to the market-house and saw a crowd of people there. Went down to see what was going on, and found it was a peace convention.
Q. A what?
A. A peace convention.
Q. At what point was that?
A. It was some place near the old City Hall--I should judge it was. It was in the street. I went from there up Liberty street until I met the fire. I couldn't state how far it was from the Union depot--how many squares it was; but I stopped at the first crossing below the last car that was on fire. I staid there until a car load of spirits exploded, and the flames ran down from there about a hundred feet.
Q. Where was this explosion--at what point?
A. It was on the railroad in a railroad car.
Q. What street?
A. It was on Liberty street--I should judge that was the street that the cars go out of. I am not well enough acquainted to state positively--it was on the Pennsylvania railroad.
Q. Was that on the Allegheny Valley track?
A. No, sir; on the Pennsylvania tracks.
Q. Near what cross street?
A. That I am not well enough informed to know, but I should judge it was four squares above the Union depot, right up the track.
Q. Four squares?
A. Yes; four squares.
Q. Go on now?
A. While standing there looking at the flames going on, I made a remark to some person: "Ain't they going to try to stop it?" and he said, "no, we don't care anything whether it is stopped or not." I hadn't staid there long until I heard the gong of a hose carriage. The crowd didn't seem disposed to give way or do anything--just standing in the road. I asked the crowd if they would stand back and let the hose carriage come in. I was a perfect stranger to every person around. There was a movement made in the crowd, and the hose carriage came up. Says I, "do you want any assistance?" says he, "yes." Says I, "give me the end of the hose and I will make the attachment." He was taking it off the reel and one man jumped from the reel and went to the plug, and him and I made the attachment. The reel started on--there was barrels being rolled down this street, and everything was in confusion, and no person seemed to make any effort to check anything. I seen that the hose were in danger of being blocked, and I told some parties who were rolling some barrels down, "stop that! put that barrel in here." They stopped. I took the barrel out of their hands, and rolled it into the gutter. I staid there for ten minutes afterwards, when one of my companions came along, and says he, "let us get out of here." We walked on down do the Union depot, passed the Union depot and went up to, I should judge it would be Washington street, from the description given--not being well acquainted with the streets--and stepped into a segar store, got some segars, and told the proprietor of the store, says I, "I think you had better move." And says he, "no, I don't think there is any danger." Says I, "in a couple of hours you will be burned out--they ain't making any effort up there to stop it." I went out, passed around on to the side of the hill above the Union depot, where I had a view of the whole transaction that was going on; just seen the burners going along and doing just as they pleased, having everything in their own hands. I was on the side of the hill when the office beyond the shed attached to the Union depot building was set on fire.
Q. Did you see it set on fire?
A. I seen a man go into the building, and in a few minutes I seen the flames coming out.
Q. Do you know the man?
A. No, sir; I was too far away. The smoke coming up over the hill, I moved around and came back, then down to the Union depot by the same route I had went up, and there stopped by the elevator. As I came by the Union depot, I saw, I suppose, twenty armed men leaving it, some with parts of uniform on, some with caps, and some with pants, and others with citizens overcoats. They were going through the gangway to the hill, passing out of the side entrance to the gangway that runs across the Pan-Handle road on to the hill. I stood down by the elevator, and saw the parties making their escape from the upper stories of the Union depot, and then I got in conversation with a gentleman about it. Says I, "I suppose they will be satisfied when that is burned." "No;" says he, "we won't be satisfied until this elevator is down." Says I, "do you intend to burn this?" Says he, "everything in these monopolies has got to burn"--he made use of that expression. Says he, "I am a citizen here, and I own property, and I expect to help pay for it." Says I, "this is not railroad property." Says he, "it don't make a damned bit of difference, it has got to come down; it is a monopoly, and we are tired of it."
Q. Did you know that man?
A. I am personally acquainted with him, but I would rather not give his name publicly.
Q. I think we ought to have his name?
A. I would give it to you privately. He is a friend of mine from boyhood up. I can give you his name, and you can have him before you. I would like to be excused from giving his name publicly.
Q. What kind of a citizen is he--what is his business standing?
A. He is a machinist, and of good character, so far as I know.
Q. How long has he resided in the city of Pittsburgh?
A. I suppose he must have resided in this neighborhood for twenty years.
Q. Does he work in the railroad shops as a machinist?
A. No, sir; one of the city shops.
Q. How old a man is he?
A. I suppose he would be between thirty-five and forty years. About near my age. We were boys together when we were in Brighton, and he came to the city.
Q. A man of family?
A. Yes; he is a man of family.
Q. He said he expected to help pay for it?
A. He says, "I expect to help pay for it."
Q. Did he set fire then to the elevator?
A. Oh! no, sir.
Q. Who did fire that?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did he take any part?
A. No; he didn't seem to take any part. He seemed to know and understand what was going to be done, though.
Q. Was he leading or giving directions in any way to the crowd?
A. No, sir. He stood with me in the crowd back. He seemed to know certain parties that were in it, although he mentioned no names.
Q. Did he say where the parties were from that were in it?
A. Yes; he made that remark--said he, "Our shop boys came home this morning tired out with the night's work."
Q. With Saturday night's work, did he allude to?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Our shop boys?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What shop was that he alluded to?
A. Jones & Laughus, I believe--the American iron works.
Q. How many men do the American iron works employ, do you know?
A. I can only give an estimate of the reports--from one thousand five hundred to two thousand. They are very large works. I have been through them.
Q. When he said, "our boys came home tired out from last night's work," what work did he allude to?
A. The conversation was on this burning altogether--on the destruction of the property. My inference was that it was the work we had witnessed.
Q. Were you talking about any other subject at the time?
A. No, sir; nothing but the disturbance then in progress.
Q. Did you see any attempt while you were there to destroy or set fire to individual property?
A. No; I did not.
Q. When you arrived at the scene of the riot, how large a crowd was there?
A. On the streets--it would be impossible to judge the number.
Q. Engaged in actual burning and rioting?
A. I think twenty-five good men would have cleaned the crowd out.
Q. I asked you how large the crowd was?
A. Averaging from three to five hundred, not over that--boys--young fellows.
Q. Did you see any efforts made by anybody to stop the burning?
A. No, sir; not an effort.
Q. See any policemen around there?
A. I saw two or three policemen about two squares below, but none in the immediate neighborhood of the burning.
Q. Did you see the sheriff or any posse about?
A. I did not--no person in authority, or any person using any authority.
Q. When you attempted to make the connection, were you interfered with in any way?
A. No, sir; not in the least.
Q. When you undertook to stop the rolling down of barrels, what seemed to be the feeling in the crowd?
A. They just stopped and let me have my own way.
Q. Obeyed orders?
A. Obeyed orders.
Q. Did you make any effort to stop those that were setting fire to property and burning?
A. No, sir; I did not; I held back from them on account of not being a citizen of the town.
Q. The crowd that was standing around, of whom were they composed?
A. They seemed to be composed of the better class of citizens of the two cities, you could see--quiet, orderly.
Q. Were there any women and children among them in the crowd?
A. Yes; there were a great number.
Q. Did you see any business men of the city standing about?
A. No, sir; I can't say that I did. I am not well enough acquainted with the business men of the city to know whether there was any in the crowd or not.
Q. Did you see the mayor?
A. I haven't seen the mayor to know him since 1860; I probably would not know him on the street.
Q. Did you find any difficulty in getting into the city that day, from New Brighton, Beaver county?
A. No, sir; I found no difficulty at all. Trains came in on time. At the Allegheny depot the strikers boarded the train and run it to Federal street station, and said they would not run it over to Pittsburgh.
Q. Did the trains go out on the roads leading west?
A. Yes; they went out whenever Boss Amnion, as he was called, said that train should go.
Q. He allowed the passenger trains to run?
A. No interference, so far as I know, in regard to passenger trains. I had no trouble at all in getting home.
Q. Did you see anything of General Latta that day?
A. I did not; I am not personally acquainted with him: probably might have seen him, and not known him.
Q. Were you at the city hall that day or any other day?
A. I was at the city hall at seven o'clock, Monday morning.
Q. Who was there?
A. I can say that the mayor was not there, as I heard him inquired for half a dozen times. The rest were strangers to me.
Q. Did you see the chief of police or any of the officials there?
A. Not to my knowledge--there was not. I made inquiry for the chief of police--if the chief of police was in, and I was told he was not.
Q. What class of people were there?
A. They seemed to be employés around there, or some persons that seem to be well acquainted with the office; they were sitting there.
Q. Tell us what you heard said there?
A. I went into the chief of police's office--the left hand entrance going into the city hall--and seen one gentlemen that I was slightly acquainted with, Mr. Carrigan, and spoke to him. He got up and went out. There were two or three gentlemen--strangers--I got into conversation with them about it, and one of them, a large, tall man, with heavy black whiskers, says he, "We won't be satisfied here until this track is torn up to the point." He brought his fist down; says he, "We have been imposed on long enough."
Q. Until the track was torn up to the point--what track did he refer to?
A. He mentioned the Liberty street track?
Q. What was referred to by the word "point?"
A. I suppose it is the old Duquesne depot on the point.
Q. At the junction of the Allegheny and Monongahela?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He referred to the Liberty street track?
A. Referred to the Liberty street track to be torn up to satisfy the citizens.
Q. Who was the man?
A. I can't name him. He was a stranger to me.
Q. Do you know where he belonged?
A. I do not know, but judged from his conversation that he belonged to the city of Pittsburgh, from the manner in which he used that expression.
Q. What else did you hear said there?
A. People were commenting about it in general terms. I came down Sunday night, after the fire had got cooled down somewhat. I went to the Saint James hotel, opposite the Union depot, to take a look. I went out of curiosity, and got in over the hot coals, so as to have it said that I ate a meal in the Saint James while it was hot. I walked all around the burned district; that is, the elevator, Union depot, and Pan Handle yard, watched the firemen, went down to where the firemen were playing on the ruins, and came down then through what is known as the metal yard, and there I heard a conversation amongst the men. I couldn't tell you the exact number, but I should think there was a hundred and fifty congregated around there, some of them dead drunk, and some half drunk, and some of them drunk enough to go any place. I heard them say: "We must go to this place. There is no police, and they won't interfere with us any way."
Q. What place did he refer to?
A. I don't know what place they referred to. I thought it was a rather dangerous place for me, being without any arms, any more than natural fists, and I didn't stay any longer.
Q. Did you hear any conversation, while at the city hall, from the mayor's clerks in reference to the riot and burning?
A. No; I don't know as I did. There was a gentleman came in there, and inquired for the mayor. Says he: "There is a big lot of miners coming down here," and, says he, "we don't know what to do." He inquired where he was, and wanted something done to stop them. No person seemed to know what to do.
Q. How long did you remain at the city hall?
A. I remained there until Monday evening--at the city hall?
Q. Yes?
A. Probably I was there an hour.
Q. Was the mayor away all the time that you were there?
A. I didn't hear of the mayor coming in while I was there at all. He might have went to his office while I was in there.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. What time were you at the city hall?
A. I should judge about seven o'clock in the morning--Monday morning.
Q. When you went into the tobacco store, and told this man he had better be moving, what reply did he make?
A. Says he: "I think not. They won't let it come down this far will they?"
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. How did you happen to be here?
A. I came up on purpose to see it. Heard of it at home, and came up.
Q. On purpose to see the riot?
A. On purpose to see what was going on, like hundreds of others.
By Mr. Means:
Q. This man that was in the city hall that said they would not be satisfied until the track was torn up down to the point--was he dressed in citizen's clothes?
A. Yes; I judged by his dress and conversation that he was a resident of the place.
Q. Did the other men make any reply when he made that remark?
A. No; no reply was made.
Q. You would take him then to be a citizen of Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. How many men from Beaver county came up?
A. Indeed, I could hardly state--I should judge a hundred or one hundred and fifty.
Q. At the same time?
A. Yes; and some of them were railroad men down there, and were interested here.
Q. Were they with you at the time you had the conversation with that man?
A. No, sir; at that time I was by myself.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You spoke about some armed men you saw going up the hill--did you ascertain who they were?
A. No, sir; I did not. I was told they were some Philadelphia men that had been left in there.
Q. Left in the depot?
A. Left in the depot as a guard.
Q. How were they uniformed?
A. Some had caps on, some pants--I would judge they belonged to the soldiers, on account of the weapons they had in their hands--they were breech-loaders.
Q. Did they make any effort to prevent any destruction of property?
A. In what way.
Q. You spoke about marching along the hill, or up the hill?
A. When I spoke about them they were escaping from the Union depot. At that time the flames were coming in from the shed. They were going over the hill towards the reservoir.
Q. This man you had the conversation with down at the municipal hall, at the office of the chief of police, did he appear to be connected with the office there in any way?
A. Well, indeed I can't say. He was in this office, and I struck up a conversation with him. I don't know how we got to talking about it. I spoke to Mr. Carrigan, the only one I knew. He went out, and there was no other person I had conversation with but him, and he seemed to be at home.
Q. Do you know where Mr. Carrigan lives?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is Carrigan's name?
A. I can't tell you that.
Q. Does he live here in Pittsburgh?
A. I believe he does.
Q. Can you give his place of business or residence?
A. No, sir; I can't do that. I met him on special duty at one time--he appeared to be connected with the detective force at one time here.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Can you name any gentlemen that came up from Beaver with you?
A. Mr. Robinson.
Q. What is his first name?
A. Hugh Robinson.
Q. Any other?
A. Mr. Edgar.
Q. Mr. Edgar--what is his first name?
A. John P.
Q. Who else?
A. Mr. Jagger.
Q. What is his first name?
A. Fred.
Q. All these men were with you on the ground?
A. They were scattered through the crowd. I was separated from them pretty much all the time. Only just occasionally we would meet.
Q. Are they from the town of Beaver?
A. New Brighton.
Q. Any others?
A. There was Major Henry, from Beaver, and Mr. Macomber, of Beaver Falls file works.
* * * * *
Doctor Edward Donnelly, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Examined of Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Reside at 62 Stevenson street. My office is 133 Grand street.
Q. You are a practicing physician in city?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just go on and make a brief statement of what you saw in relation to the riots?
A. My first knowledge of the riots was on Saturday, the 21st of July, about an hour or so previous to the arrival of the troops from the east. I was induced to go to Twenty-eighth street, hearing that there was a large concourse of people assemble there, and they were there for the purpose of preventing any trains leaving the city--any freight trains, and having the dread of riots before my eyes--I had seen other riots in Philadelphia, in 1844--I apprehended that there might be some little difficulty, and as I have some influence with the Irish portion of the people of the city, I thought it my duty to go there, and try to induce them to leave the place, and not enter into any measures that would tend to criminate themselves or break the laws of the country. That was the reason I went there. When I arrived at the ground--I drove out in my buggy--when I arrived there, I found about fifteen hundred people. I presume, assembled--fifteen hundred to two thousand, and several companies of soldiers--the Fourteenth regiment, Greys, I believe, some of them, and the Nineteenth. I am not sure that there was any Greys there--I think it was the Fourteenth and the Nineteenth regiments. I saw Colonel Grey's command on the side of the hill, and I inquired of him who had charge of the troops here, as they were in rather a disorderly condition, I consider, in a military point of view. They were mingling freely with the crowd in groups here and there, and seemed to have no order or discipline amongst them. They told me General Brown had command; and I then went down amongst the crowd on the railroad track, where Twenty-eighth street intersects the road, and I met General Brown, and inquired of him if he was in command of the troops. He said he was. Said I, "you are not in military uniform--you have no uniform on." He was dressed as a citizen. I thought it was a very remarkable thing. He then asked me if I would make a speech to the crowd, so as to disperse them, or induce them to disperse, and leave the track free for the cars to go out--engines and so on. I told him that I did not think it was my place, but if it would be of any benefit I would certainly do so; and he said "yes," he thought it would be necessary, because there was troops coming from Philadelphia and Easton; that the railroad company had sent for troops to disperse any mob that would attempt to interfere with the running of trains; and, perhaps, it would be best, in order to prevent any disturbance, for me to address the crowd to that effect. I hesitated somewhat, and inquired then before I consented. Said I, "who is the leader of the strikers?" Said he "there he is," pointing to a tall man that was very busy in the crowd, making motions with his fingers to his companions--that is, trainmen, firemen, and engineers. Said I "call him here and see what he says about my addressing this crowd." This man was called, and he also thought it advisable for me to do so--they did not want any disturbance, and they would like the crowd to disperse--they could manage this business themselves without any outsiders; and at this solicitation of Brown, and this chief man amongst the strikers, I got up on the steps of a small oil house, that is fronting the round-house--standing there yet--and I addressed the crowd present, and what I said on that day to them was published in the afternoon paper--in the Leader--I have a copy of it here. I told them that it was necessary for them to disperse--if you would like to here the exact words I would read them for you.
Q. Is it lengthy?
A. No, sir; it is very short. It was so to the point at the time that I thought it best to preserve it, and this is copied from the Leader of the 21st, the afternoon of the-day of the occurrence, and this address was delivered about one hour before the arrival of the troops. The reporter says he addressed--that is. Doctor Donnelly--addressed the strikers as his fellow-countrymen. I did so because I have been in the habit of addressing Irishmen in public meetings, and it was more of a habit than anything else. Instead of saying "fellow-citizens," I said countrymen; not because they were all Irish, but because it is a habit I had in using that term, and exhorted them not to resort to violence. "No striker," he said, "had ever yet succeeded where violence was resorted to. Violence was invariably met with violence, and ended in the discomfiture of the strikers. It was opposed and contrary to the fundamental laws of the land. He entreated them to maintain law and order. To reflect before taking any rash step, and to remember that law-breakers must, in the natural course of things, suffer. He urged them to be prudent upon the arrival of the troops from the east. The troops from Philadelphia, said he, and the troops from Easton and elsewhere are not to you like the Duquesne Greys or the Fourteenth regiment or the Nineteenth regiment. They are not, I might say, your brothers. You cannot go to them and take their hands and say to them, 'how are you, Jim?' or 'how are you, Tom' or 'how is it with you, Patrick?' These men will come here strangers to you, and they will come here regarding you as we regarded the rebels during the rebellion, and there will be no friendly feeling between you and them. For this reason, I implore you, for God's sake, to stand back when they arrive. To stand off and allow your leaders, who hold the throttle of this movement, to deal with them. For this reason I implore those of you who have no business here to go home to your families. It is your duty to do so. It is your duty to them, to your country, and to the laws of your country. Leave the matter in the hands of your leaders, who know what is for the best, better than you do, and you will leave it in good hands. I have been assured of this. I have been informed by the men who are leading this strike that they will exercise the greatest caution and forbearance when the soldiers arrive, and I entreat you to stand back, and let them manage the thing in their own way." That was the import of it.
Q. Were you near Twenty-eighth street when you made that?
A. I was right amongst them, sir.
Q. At Twenty-eighth street?
A. At Twenty-eighth street and the round-house. The crowd was between the round-house and myself--some fifteen hundred or two thousand, including; soldiers and all.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. It was on the steps of the watch-box?
A. I was on the steps of a small building where oil is kept. The steps are high up, and I had a good location and a good view of the surroundings. They listened very patiently, and as there was a great number of women and children among them, I deemed it my duty to warn them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Before you go on, state to us what effect this address had upon them?
A. It seemed to have a good effect upon them as far as the women and children, and a great number of men retired and went away; and there was a kindly feeling apparent amongst the people and amongst the soldiers that were there. There was no evidence of violence, nor none apprehended, except when the troops would arrive from the cast. The only fear that appeared to exist amongst the bystanders and those I conversed with, was a conflict between the eastern troops and the people.
Q. Were the troops--the soldiers of the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments--mixed up with the crowd at that time?
A. Yes; there was neither order nor discipline amongst them.
Q. Did they have their arms with them?
A. They had some arms on the ground. Some had them with them and some were stacked in different places along the side of the hill and at the bottom of the hill.
Q. Were they dressed in uniform?
A. Yes; with the exception of General Brown, who was in citizen's dress, and he was the commander-in-chief. I inquired for General Pearson. I understood he was with the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Go on, now, Doctor.
A. My address seemed to have considerable influence with the strikers and trainmen and others; and they had their meeting-place on Penn street, near Twenty-eighth. I think it was over a segar store; and I was requested to meet them that afternoon. I did so, and they delegated me to wait on the officials of the road to make terms, to put an end to any further disturbances. They requested me to see Mr. Thaw. I think he is an official of the road, one of the vice presidents, if I am not mistaken--William Thaw, I think his name is, and Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng. I went to Mr. Thaw's house two or three times, but was unable to find him. I then went to Allegheny, and met Mr. Layng and Colonel McCullough, and told them what the strikers wanted, and endeavored to persuade them to meet the strikers or to make some promise that would put an end to further difficulty and trouble, or the shooting of people or destruction of property. They were both together, and I conversed with them, and I gave them the terms the strikers had authorized me to make. I took it from the strikers and wrote it down in pencil at the time, and it is here--the terms they wished me to propose to the officers of the road, to Mr. Thaw and Colonel Scott, if he was in town. After informing these gentlemen what the strikers demanded, they told me they could do nothing in the matter whatever--it was above their power to do anything.
Q. You may read what the strikers demanded.
A. This is what they demanded: "Authorized by strikers to visit Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng to effect a compromise on the basis of taking off double-headers; same wages as prior to June 1, 1877; each man to receive his position prior to strike."
Q. Retain his position prior to strike--receive or retain?
A. They said receive at that time--"classification of engines done away with; each engineer to receive first-class wages, same as prior to June 1, 1877; each engine, road or shifting, to have own fireman"--that was the conditions on which they wished to make a compromise with the officials of the road, and by all means to endeavor to have them meet them, so as to make some kind of a compromise. Their great object seemed to be to have a conference with the officials.
Q. What time did you get that proposition?
A. It was in the afternoon of Saturday.
Q. Before the collision with the troops?
A. It was after the collision. I had not heard of the collision at that time. I had been hunting Mr. Thaw in the afternoon, and then had gone to Allegheny, and I had to procure the aid of a gentleman to go with me to learn where Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng lived.
Q. Did you get the proposition before the collision from the strikers?
A. The strikers gave me the proposition previous to the collision, I think.
Q. What time did you present it?
A. I presented it--it must have been, perhaps, four o'clock or five--it was in the afternoon.
Q. What response did you get--reply?
A. They told me they could do nothing at all in the matter, nor did they seemed disposed to do anything. They conversed about the matter as indifferently as if it was a thing on the other side of the Atlantic--took no interest in it, but referred me to President Scott.
Q. Did you return to Twenty-eighth street that night again--Saturday night?
A. I did, sir; went there several times. I reported the interview, and they said they would try to meet the officers--they would meet the officers at East Liberty, and that they had sent out word to some of the officers--I think Mr. Pitcairn and some other officers--to meet them at East Liberty, and they had gone out there. This was late in the evening. They had gone out to East Liberty, but they could get no satisfaction out of the officers there; and they had also telegraphed to Mr. Scott, president of the road, and had received no answer, and that they had used every means in their power to make some compromise with the officers of the road, but had failed.
Q. Were you present when the fire occurred and the first car was fired?
A. No, sir; I was not present at any firing. I was pretty late that evening out at Twenty-eighth street, and there was an immense concourse of people all along Liberty street for several squares, but, as I had my horse with me I did not go amongst them at all on the tracks. I merely reported my interview between myself and Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng, and I then went home.
Q. Your effort was particularly confined to adjusting the compromise and difficulty between the strikers and the railroad?
A. Railroad officials at that time.
Q. Did you have any negotiations with the mayor about additional policemen?
A. That Saturday I had not. On Saturday I had not, but on the next morning, Sunday morning, I was very active, indeed, to endeavor to raise and organize a vigilance committee for the purpose of suppressing the riot and saving the property of the railroad company, and other property; dreading that the city would be set on fire and plundered by mobs.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. These railroad officials you called to see in Allegheny--General McCullough and Thaw and Layng--what railroad company are they connected with? Pennsylvania Central?
A. They are all connected with the same company. I presume they represent the Cleveland and Cincinnati--that western part of the Pennsylvania Central.
Q. Pennsylvania Company--not the Pennsylvania Central?
A. I didn't know that there was any difference. Mr. Thaw is certainly connected with the Pennsylvania Central. I think he is one of the vice presidents.
Q. The Pennsylvania Company managed the road west of Pittsburgh?
A. I don't really know what their positions were. I was solicited by these men to interview them, supposing that they were the proper authorities in the matter. Mr. Thaw was proper authority in the absence of Colonel Scott or other officials that could not be found.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What success did you meet with in trying to organize a force on Sunday morning?
A. On Sunday morning the citizens met near the old city hall and formed a kind of organization there, and finally adjourned to the new city hall, and there we organized a committee of safety, composed of citizens, to take measures to assist the mayor--employ a force of policemen, as he was very deficient in a police force at the time, and had but a few men on duty; and the object was to organize a strong police force to aid and assist the mayor in suppressing the riot, which then had become very alarming. We were all day nearly in doing a very little. The citizens seemed to be panic stricken, and there seemed to be no head at all in the city amongst the officials or amongst the people. The mayor seemed to be powerless. The sheriff, I believe, had ran away, and, in fact, we seemed to have no city government for the protection of the city or the people.
Q. What did the mayor do in the way of assisting in this organization?
A. The mayor--he didn't do a great deal, he seemed to be running around at one thing and another, and he seemed to be so confused and incapable of organizing anything, that he really did do nothing. I understood there was two companies of troops come down from up the Monongahela in charge of an old army companion of mine. I suggested that he had better try to get those two companies, and take them down where the riot was going on, and do something. We found that these troops had returned again, and they were not there, and we came back again, and, finding that the riot was still going on and nothing being done, he authorized me to collect as many citizens as I possibly could, and go down there and see if we could suppress the disturbance, and I organized about sixty men, composed partly of lawyers, a few physicians, and other gentlemen, who were determined to use every effort to suppress the disturbance; and we first armed ourselves with axe handles, which a gentleman on Wood street procured for us out of his store. I considered that didn't look very military, and somebody suggested that there were rifles at the Western University, up on Diamond street, and we concluded to make a raid on the university. We did so, with the sanction of the mayor, and we got the rifles, and then there was no ammunition, and we put the bayonets on them, and with a company of sixty men, and myself as the colonel--I had been commissioned by the mayor to act as such--we marched down to the scene of the riot and arson, each gentleman had a white handkerchief tied on his arm to distinguish them from the rest of the crowd that was there assembled--it may look very ludicrous just now, but it was a very serious matter then. We marched down amongst them, and the crowd sort of stood to one side and let us pass through. I arranged the men on each side of Liberty street, where I supposed they were going to set lire to the large stores. At that time the grain elevator had been destroyed, and the property adjoining the metal yard, adjoining this large ware-house, was also on fire. There was a fence running from the middle yard up to one of the stores, I proposed to some of the rioters present to tear that fence down and save that property, two or three of them said, well, what do you want, I said we didn't want private property destroyed, so a gang of them went over and tore the fence down, and the flames didn't extend any further in that direction. After staying there some time, and seeing that there was no evidence of breaking into stores or setting fire to private property, we retired; that is, we retreated to the city hall, and stacked our arms in the building, and dispersed for the night. The next morning we were not organized again, the city seemed pretty quiet, and the crowd had understood that the citizens were taking an active part in protecting the city.
Q. Let me ask you a question there. Supposing you had arrived with your regiment--you say you were a commissioned colonel--suppose you had arrived on the ground before the fire reached the Union depot, do you think that you could have kept the mob back and prevented the firing of the Union depot with that body?
A. I do think that if I had been authorized and given me fifty or sixty good men, that understood their duty, and were obedient to orders and had loaded rifles before that depot burned, it could have been saved. I went there and tried to save that depot, and took Bishop Tuigg with me to go out there, thinking that there might be a number of our countrymen there engaged in that, and that he would have some influence with them, to save the property of the company, and save the building. I stood on the platform of a car with the bishop, and he first addressed them, and in looking over the crowd, I found that the crowd were not Irishmen. As we soon discovered, they began throwing iron ore and other missiles at the bishop's head, which no good Catholic would do, unless he was an Orangeman. I also addressed them, and a burly fellow came up and said, get down from here, Doctor, we are going to set fire to this, and I considered it most prudent to get down. With fifty good men, I would have cleared that place in a very few minutes.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know that man that came up to you?
A. I would know him if I ever saw him. I felt very vindictive towards him at that moment. I did try to save an engine by pulling a fellow off who would not allow the engineer to try to run it off. I pulled him off and said let that man take the engine off. He was drunk at the time, and he said something to me, but anyhow they kept the engine there until it was burned. If the officials even of the depot--if the officials of the road, or the employés of the road, had any courage at all on Monday, they could have saved that building. There was no trouble about it, because the outside people were perfectly indifferent, looking on and affording no resistance.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Supposing the officials connected with the road there had made an effort to have driven them back, what effect would that have had upon the crowd?
A. The crowd that was there at that time could have been easily driven away.
Q. Would it have excited them worse?
A. I think not. I think the citizens were all disposed at that time to aid to enforce law and order. It was the feeling. That was on Sunday, mind you. On Sunday afternoon at that time I believe every citizen was disposed to enforce law and order, and that the rioting element would not have had any chance whatever, and they would not have been supported.
Q. How many were actually engaged in the arson and rioting at that time?
A. From my looking at them and looking amongst them, and as they were assembled together to listen to what we had to say, I don't think there was fifty men really.
Q. Engaged in the riot?
A. I don't think there was that many, because they were dispersed amongst the crowd of people, and you could only tell the bad element amongst them by their appearance, and by their dress, and by their half drunken condition.
Q. Had you any talk with the mayor during the day, Sunday, about sending out a posse of policemen there?
A. I had talked with the mayor on several occasions. I urged him to try to organize a force, and I asked him several times very plainly why he had not arrested these rioters, I mean the strikers, the head of them, that were inciting riot, and he said that he had done his duty in that respect, but that he had been superseded Ivy Mr. Hampton and Dalzell, and other persons connected with the railroad, in taking it out of his hands, and placing the authority in the hands of the sheriff, and that he would let them manage the matter--something to that effect--and that seemed to be his principal reason for not having acted more energetically--that the officers of the road had taken the matter out of his hands.
Q. He was out there during the day Sunday looking over the crowd?
A. I didn't see him out there, I think, unless he was there, and I didn't see him. I was going to say that these are some of the strikers who sent the communication [indicating a paper] to the mayor and myself. This is addressed to the Honorable Mr. McCarthy and Doctor Donnelly. Metzgar was chief clerk of the mayor at that time, and this communication was sent. I had been soliciting these strikers to aid us in suppressing the riot, to enter in with us, and make their appearance amongst us, to show that they were not in favor of pillaging, burning, &c. This is addressed to the Honorable M. J. McCarthy: "Have gone to the Twenty-sixth street, with Cunningham, of the strikers, with McKeon. Say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you, and will do my best." That is underlined: "Will do my very best. Tell Donnelly, if they come, see that they get instructions." That is, I was to go down with the force, at that time, with proper instructions. That is the name of the gentleman, I can hardly make it out, it is very peculiar writing, "W. N. Riddle," I should think it was. He was to aid and assist us, with his strikers, to suppress these disturbances.
Q. Riddle--was this the man that requested you----
A. That was not the man. That man I could never find afterwards. He was a tall man, a thin spare-faced man, a very active man, he seemed to have some influence over them. One of the strikers gave me that, [indicating paper.] I understood it was from a principal one of them, at the time.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. How long did it take you to raise that force of yours?
A. It took me all day. 1 never saw such apathy or cowardice among the citizens.
Q. They did not appear to be anxious?
A. Men that should have done their duty, as citizens, were promenading Fifth avenue, and it was very difficult to get citizens. I must say to the credit of the bar, that they did their duty.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you give us the names of some of the lawyers that were members of that company?
A. Colonel Haymaker was one of them, Mr. Harper was another--there was quite a number, Dr. Sutton was one, he was second in command. I have the names of most of them.
Q. I believe you find lawyers and doctors among the best citizens, as a general thing?
A. We do our duty, if we can.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Could you have got fifty or sixty good men, with rifles and ammunition, at the time that you and Bishop Tuigg went up to remonstrate with the mob?
A. We could not--not at that time. We had been ineffectual all day to organize a company, and there was no arms to be had yet; there was troops at the old city hall, but there seemed to be nobody in command to do anything, to take the responsibility, there seemed to be really no person at the head of anything.
By Mr. Means:
Q. This whole machine appeared to have no head?
A. Yes; it appeared, as I said before, it appeared that the mayor was indifferent. He said that it was the railroad company that was running this thing, and he would let them run it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say there was troops at the city hall. How many, and who were they--what organization?
A. There was part of a company of the Nineteenth regiment--a company there of the Nineteenth regiment. I forget who had charge of them. I know the gentleman very well, but I cannot think of his name. He went out afterwards in command of one of the regiments to the east from here. A tall, nice-looking young man. He had charge of the regiment. Howard, I think it was--Hartley Howard, I think, was the gentleman.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Had the mayor intimated to you that the railroad officials had taken this matter into their own hands?
A. They had interfered with him in executing an order. They had interfered in arresting some man. He had not acted as promptly as they thought. It appears that Mr. Hampton and Dalzell--I think he used the names jointly--had taken these writs from him and given them into the hands of the sheriff.
By Mr. Means:
Q. And that he would not interfere?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You said a while ago that the sheriff had run away. How did you know he had run away?
A. He was not to be found anywhere. I had not seen him that day. I heard he had left. They had threatened to burn his house, and he had left the city. As the sheriff is a man subject to heart disease, I presume it was his duty not to risk his life amongst them. I heard there was a strong feeling against him, and he had left. I had not seen the sheriff after that day.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What day was this you were speaking of?
A. That was on Sunday.
Q. Did you see him there on Saturday with the troops?
A. No, sir; I did see the sheriff on Saturday.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. You stated in your speech to the people that you had been informed by those who led the strike that they would manage the matter prudently, so as to have no trouble. Who were those parties that informed you they were leading the strike? Can you give us the names?
A. I can ascertain the names of some of them, but I don't know the names now. I don't remember them. There was one little man very active. His brother keeps a drug store at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets. He seemed to be very active amongst them.
Q. Do you know his name?
A. No, sir; I can find out his name. I can find out the names of several of them. I think I have them written down. This gent--I thought his name was attached to that paper--was a city man, very active. He seemed to be the leading spirit amongst them, but I found he was the man that brought that document there.
Q. He is not the one that signed it?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How do you account for the apathy or cowardice that existed in the city about going out to take steps to stop this?
A. The only way I can account for it is that there was a feeling amongst the people that these men had been treated very unjustly by the railroad company; that it had reduced their wages down to a starvation point, and that they had been treated unjustly. There has been a feeling here more or less ever since I have been in Pittsburgh--twelve years--since the war, against the railroad company, on account of its unjust actions against the mercantile interests of Pittsburgh. There has always been more or less of that kind of feeling against the company, as I told the Governor in my interview with him on the Sunday night that he was here. That feeling has existed against Tom Scott and the railroad company. The overbearing manner of their officials, and their want of making any compromise whatever, or showing any disposition whatever to compromise with their employés; that has been the feeling engendered in this city for years.
Q. How extensive is that disposition?
A. It is amongst almost the whole class of people, intelligent as well as ignorant, that feeling has existed.
Q. The business men and professional men?
A. The business men--many of the business men--have been bitter enemies of the road on account of the discrimination in freights that has existed. That feeling has permeated the whole community--it permeated the whole community, and I had that same feeling and that same antagonism to the road myself. As I told the Governor, Tom Scott should come down from his empyrean and mingle amongst the people, and he should assert his right of being Governor of the State, and not Tom Scott.
Q. What reply did the Governor make?
A. The Governor made one of his bland smiles.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. He is a good listener?
A. Yes; that was up in the hotel where he stopped the Sunday night.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In your negotiations, mingling with the strikers and endeavoring to adjust matters, did you ascertain the reason or the cause of the strike?
A. This was the cause that I stated, just what is set forth in this paper, [indicating paper,] that was the cause, and that was what they wanted, an adjustment on that basis.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did any one sign that paper setting forth their grievances?
A. Only I had a meeting with them. I wrote down what they wanted.
Q. You wrote that down yourself?
A. They would not permit anybody, they had confidence in me or they wouldn't have entrusted me. They saw I was disposed to do what was right. I acted prudently with them.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were any of the strikers, that is the railroad employés, who first struck, engaged in this arson, burning, and pillaging?
A. The persons whom I saw engaged in this arson business, and the crowd that I addressed on Sunday were rioters. They appeared to me to be all strangers. They were not really citizens of Pittsburgh. They appeared to me to be all strangers. There was no strikers. I saw none of the strikers that I knew, whose countenances I would remember amongst the rioters. They appeared to keep aloof. They appeared to keep away, and when we wanted to find them or have any conversation with them, we had our meeting down at their place. The bishop and the delegation of citizens from this committee of public safety, went down to meet them away down at their head-quarters, at Twenty-eighth street, where we had a conference with them. They were perfectly powerless, yet disposed to do all they could to save the property and suppress the riot.
Q. Who were the men engaged in this arson and burning?
A. That is more than I can tell you who they were. They appeared to be a class of men I had never seen before.
Q. Were they mill men?
A. Many of them looked like laboring men. Most of them were young men, reckless young fellows, half drunk, and of a class you would call roughs, which you will find always around cities and places where there is anything going on, you don't know who they are--they appeared to be all young men.
Q. From the works about the city?
A. They might have been; I don't know. I couldn't recognize them.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Didn't one recognize and call to you "Doctor, get down from that?"
A. They knew me well enough--these men knew me well enough.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Told you to get down from there, and said they were going to burn that car?
A. Yes; they had made up their minds to burn the depot.
Q. Did he say that?
A. No, sir; I judged that. That was our effort to save the depot. I induced the bishop to go down myself.
Q. In the practice of your profession, have you become acquainted, more or less, with the laboring men about the city?
A. Yes; I have. I am a great deal amongst them--factories, mills, and all around the neighborhood. I have a great deal of intercourse with that class of people as a surgeon amongst them.
Q. Did you recognize any of that class in this crowd?
A. I didn't recognize--yes, I recognized two men, that I have since endeavored to find, who were amongst the rioters--that was the only two.
Q. On Sunday?
A. Yes; they were there present, and one of them, when I was addressing the crowd, made the remark to me that they wouldn't put confidence in any man, no matter what he said, and that man I would know again. He was one of them, and he was an aider and abettor. I have gone frequently around the depot since; and I think he was employed by the company. I would know him if I was to see him. The other man, that threw the piece of iron ore at my head, I would know him. I have never met him.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know whether any of your command--of your company had been called upon by the sheriff to join his posse to suppress the riot the day before, or at any time.
A. I don't know whether they ever had or not. I don't think the sheriff was about on Sunday.
Q. The day before?
A. I don't know whether he was Saturday night or not. I don't know, sir, anything about the sheriff and his posse. There was no sheriff or posse that I saw at all.
* * * * *
Captain P. Grallisath, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you at the Union depot at any time during the riots of July last--first you may state where you reside?
A. No. 660 Diamond street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Tavern.
Q. Keep hotel?
A. No; tavern--restaurant.
Q. State whether you were at the Union hotel or not, and what time it was?
A. I was at the Union depot about half past two in the afternoon.
Q. Of what day?
A. On Saturday. I think it was.
Q. When the Philadelphia troops arrived?
A. I got notice from my colonel, who is captain of the Black Hussars, who sent a man to me with a note that one of his men lost a cap on the road, and for me to bring him one. I went out myself and met them at the depot there--the Black Hussars, and I saw--I suppose it was the First regiment or Second Philadelphia--the infantry getting ready to march out the track; and I was talking to my colonel, and asking him how things goes, and what he came on here for. Says he: "I don't know." He says: "I suppose we came on here to keep peace here in Pittsburgh." I staid there with him for about an hour and a half. I told him, says I: "Colonel, you better come down to my house. There is nothing going on here. It is all nonsense to remain here. Leave your men here and come down with me;" and so he did.
Q. What was the Colonel's name?
A. Captain Chues, of the Black Hussars. He was my colonel in the army. We went down home and got something to eat and a few glasses of beer, and all at once an orderly sent word to say: "Captain hurry up, they are firing on front." I went out with him to the depot, and staid there until dark with him. They had charge of the ammunition from General Brinton, at the Union depot. I staid there until dark, and the infantry was out, and a great many people passing along Liberty street, and hollering and cheering over to the boys, but they didn't take any notice. I told the colonel, says I, "never mind, just leave them talk and mind their own business." So they did, I says, "colonel, I am going home. I will be back again in a short time." I had to see how business was at home. Everything was upside down in the city. I came back about eight o'clock, and went to the depot again, and I found there was nobody there. I asked where they were, and they said they were in the round-house. I could not go out there, because I was alone myself, and I understood they were at the same time in the Union depot, up stairs--all of them--hid up.
Q. Who did you understand that from?
A. I had it from Major Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, whose company was there stationed in the Union depot. This was after this.
Q. Did he say that all the Black Hussars----
A. He says "they are not there." Then I went back home again in the street cars, and I see a great mob making raids on the bonds for whisky--anything they could find--nearly opposite the street car where I was in. I went home. About twelve o'clock I went to the depot again. I thought it was the best thing for me to see where these boys are.
Q. The Hussars?
A. Yes. I went out with one of my men to find out where they were. I saw General Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, right at the gate where the train comes in. I went to him. Says I, "Do you know anything about the Black Hussars." Says he, "Captain, I don't." Says I, "Are they in the round-house." Says he, "I don't know anything about it." I went out over where the ammunition was, and didn't see anybody except two or three watchmen around with lanterns. I ask them where they were, and they said they didn't know, that they must be in the round-house. I couldn't believe it, because I know Colonel Clines ain't going to block himself up in a cage. Says I, "If I can't find them, there is no use for me to go out in the round-house." I went home again, and couldn't get any satisfaction. All at once, Sergeant Wilder, from Philadelphia, orderly sergeant of the company of Black Hussars, about half-past two o'clock in the morning, I was sitting on the bed, and he asked some policeman where my house was, and he told him he didn't know. Everybody knows me, where my house is, especially policemen, and he says he didn't know where Captain Gallisath lived. He passed my house two or three times before he could find it. All at once, he asked somebody, and they told him, and he rang the bell, and I was sitting on the bed. I was not going to undress until I heard some news. A darkey, he showed him the road. He came up and told me the whole thing as it stands. Says he, "We are in the Union depot, and I don't know how to get out." I got all my boys up, and said they should throw out every stitch of clothes they had in their possession. I went out and took them all out in two squads over the hill. They couldn't get through Liberty street.
Q. You gave them citizens' clothes?
A. All my own and all my men's.
Q. For the Hussars to go out in disguise?
A. Yes; I kept them there for three days at my house.
Q. How many of them?
A. There was sixteen or seventeen. I think there was seventeen. I kept them there until I got word from General Brinton, and I took them over to the West Penn road, and sent them home. General Pearson, I suppose, gave them a pass. The Black Hussars were on the road to Philadelphia, and were telegraphed to come back to the junction again.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. There were sixteen or seventeen?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they have arms?
A. Nothing but sabers.
Q. Where were their guns?
A. They had none.
Q. Did they have guns when they came in from Philadelphia?
A. Nothing at all but sabers.
Q. They were placed in the Union depot to guard the ammunition, Captain Clines at the head?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that all that came there Saturday--Saturday afternoon--sixteen in number?
A. That is all they had, seventeen--I suppose it was seventeen--I had them in my house. They had nothing but sabers. They had no carbines nor pistols nor anything.
Q. Where did they leave the ammunition when they came out?
A. The ammunition was at the same place still--and burned up too.
Q. In the Union depot?
A. That is the report that I heard afterwards, that it was set afire on Sunday.
Q. They didn't bring the ammunition out with them?
A. General Brinton gave Captain Clines orders to take charge of the ammunition, so they could ship it to the front, but they never came back again, the Philadelphia troops.
Q. General Brinton didn't come back again?
A. No; they were up in the round-house, and Sunday morning went away to the other side of the river.
Q. Captain Clines left the ammunition in the depot?
A. The understanding was, that they were cut off from General Brinton, and nobody knew the ammunition was in there, except himself and his boys.
Q. Do you know whether he left it there in the depot or not?
A. I am very well satisfied he couldn't take it away. I heard the cartridges cracking around there on Sunday when they burned up. General Brinton had no ammunition, whatever, when he was cut off, and he couldn't get none--not what he brought from Philadelphia.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Captain Clines and his command carry anything away from there?
A. They left their sabers there when I took them up the hill, but they got them back afterwards, and I shipped them to Philadelphia my own self.
Q. How far do you live from Union depot?
A. Three squares and a half.
Q. What street?
A. Diamond.
Q. How many people were there along Diamond street when you took these clothes out?
A. Nobody--everything quiet.
Q. Couldn't these Black Hussars have marched out and down to your house?
A. They couldn't march from Union depot on Liberty street, they had to go around the hill and over the Pan-Handle road by the tunnel and back here--that is where the nigger took them around.
Q. In citizens dress?
A. I sent the clothes out. They went in two squads. We hadn't so many clothes to dress them all at once, the mob was waiting for them to come out.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You are a military man, and have had a great deal of experience in the army. In your opinion, could these sixteen men have cut their way out with their sabers?
A. No, sir; they couldn't.
Q. Why not?
A. I couldn't see how. They didn't know the road, nor anything. They were strangers.
Q. If they had had a guide?
A. I don't see how they could do it with sabers, when the mob was standing outside with stones and pistols. What did them sixteen men want to do with sabers.
Q. Was there a large crowd?
A. There was a big crowd there. They couldn't, I am satisfied. I wouldn't have risked it, and I wouldn't be afraid if I were acquainted in the city, and know my road.
Q. If you had had sixteen men well armed----
A. Yes; well armed, that is all right; but they were not.
Q. Were there no arms there. Were there not some stacks of muskets?
A. They had nothing but their sabers, that is all. I saw them all. They had nothing but their pocket knives. Some of them had no knives, because they went away so quick, they didn't know where they were going, and they thought they were going a few miles outside of Philadelphia.
Q. Do you know whether there was any effort made to take any provisions or ammunition to the troops in the round-house on Saturday night?
A. Not as I know of.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. These Black Hussars are generally intended as cavalry, are they not?
A. Yes; they are all mounted.
Q. The general cry was against the Philadelphia soldiers. That intimidated these men, did it?
A. I heard them hollering in the street for to kill them--in Liberty street.
Q. That is a good way to intimidate a person, isn't it?
A. Oh! yes; I was right with them. I suppose they would if they could. A man says to me, what I got business to do with the Philadelphia troops, keeping conversation with them. I told him that is my business.
Q. What business you had with them?
A. Yes. I said that is my business.
Q. They didn't pretend to interfere with you--did they?
A. I suppose they would, if they could. I don't know, I wasn't afraid.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was it known to the crowd that these Black Hussars were quartered in your house? Did the crowd know that the Black Hussars were in your house?
A. No; not that Sunday. They found it out on Monday, though. The people came in the house keeping very nice, quiet conversation with them. I never heard a wrong word on Wednesday. The house was crowded, and they were sitting around with them, drinking beer. It was all right; very nice, quiet conversation.
Q. The Black Hussars did?
A. Our Pittsburgh friends treated them very kind.
* * * * *
Robert B. Carnahan, being duly sworn, was examined as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Carnahan?
A. I reside in Pittsburgh, Nineteenth ward. We call it the east end here.
Q. Practicing attorney?
A. Practicing attorney.
Q. Solicitor for the sheriff, I believe?
A. Yes; I am at this time, and have been for two years past.
Q. Just state what you know of the movements of the sheriff during the riots of July last?
A. At the time of the first disturbance, which occurred on Thursday evening, it was preceding the Saturday on which----
Q. That was the 19th--Thursday evening, the 19th?
A. Yes; the 19th. I knew nothing whatever of anything the sheriff had done, or had been called on to do. I was informed the next morning that during the night of Thursday the sheriff had been called on by the solicitor of one of the railroads--Mr. Scott--by some of the railroad officials, during the night, and that he had been at Twenty-eighth street during that night, but I knew nothing of it personally. My residence is five miles--nearly six miles--from here, though in the city of Pittsburgh, and I was not sent for that night. The next day I became acquainted with what had been done, but I think I did not see the sheriff at all. He was out at Torrens station during a considerable portion of the day, with the railroad officers, and I don't remember to have seen him that day. I think he had been up pretty much all the night before, and was out, away from his office, the greater part of Friday, and I don't think I saw him at all on Friday. On Saturday morning I saw the sheriff, and had a full conference with him in his office. The sheriff submitted to me what he had done. Gave me an account of his meeting the rioters on Thursday night, and of his being out at Torrens station on Friday, where I think he was a considerable part of the day--at one place or the other--at least, I did not find him during business hours; and of his notification of the Governor that he was not able to deal, in his opinion, with the rioters or mob that had obstructed the running of the trains. Of course, I made inquiry as to the magnitude of the gatherings, to learn something about their threatening, hostile character. In fact, had known myself, personally, coming in on the road, that the trains were detained. I said to him that I entirely approved, as a matter of law, of what he had done in notifying the Governor to send on troops. The view I had of the act of 1864, I think it is, was that the Governor, on reliable information from any quarter where there was insurrection that the legal authorities were not able to deal with, might call out the troops, and I approved of that; but on Saturday morning the attorneys of the Pennsylvania railroad went into the court of common pleas No. 2, and obtained warrants for the arrest of a number of persons--my recollection is, fifteen in number--who were charged as leaders of this riotous movement. I think the warrants were addressed to a constable of the name of Richardson, and the solicitors of the road made a demand on the sheriff that morning for a posse comitatus to attend the arresting officers, and support him in the discharge of that duty. This took place sometime in the morning, at or after eleven o'clock in the morning--it was after eleven o'clock, I think--and I advised the sheriff to assemble a posse comitatus--as large a number of men as he could obtain--that three or four hundred would not be too large, and it was understood, at that time, that troops would arrive that evening. They would arrive here at twelve o'clock, or about twelve o'clock, perhaps earlier than twelve, on a train that arrived here between eleven and twelve o'clock, and it was understood the arrangement was, that the civil authorities were to make these arrests, the constable supported by the sheriff and his posse comitatus, and that the military were to be on the ground. There was, indeed, very little time for obtaining a posse comitatus at that time, but the sheriff sent out his deputies, some fifteen or sixteen of them, with instructions to bring in a posse comitatus. There was not time to write out summonses and serve them in any way, but I said to him that it would be a sufficient demand upon a person to attend if given verbally, that it was better to have a written notice, if there was time, which there was not then--less than an hour to do it all in. These deputies went out, some fourteen or fifteen of them, but they severally came in and reported at an interval of an hour, or an hour and a half--it was nearly one o'clock--and the result was, I think, but two men were obtained. I remember of one man being brought into the office who was very much alarmed. The sheriff asked him if he was willing to go. He said he was not willing to go; he was afraid to go. The sheriff reproached him with cowardice, and said he did not want that kind of a fellow to attend him. I think not more than two men were obtained. Sometime between twelve and one--I think nearer one than twelve--the sheriff, with his own deputies, went up to the Union depot. I think all his deputies, with the exception of one or two, perhaps, who were not then in the city. Every deputy he had in the city attended him, including his two sons and his brother, and they went up to the Union depot, and I think the constable was with him. I am not entirely sure about that. I attended them myself up as far as the Union depot. I know we went there, and some of the military had arrived there from Philadelphia at that time, but I think not all of them. I know nothing more as to what occurred on that afternoon, for I was not at Twenty-eighth street when the firing took place, and my personal knowledge ends with this, that the sheriff himself personally went. I cannot relate about anything that took place on Saturday night, or after that time, for I was not in that part of the city, but was at home.
Q. Do you know when it was that she sheriff made the call on the Governor for troops to support him?
A. I only know from what he told me himself, and what I have heard others say, and what I have seen printed--it must have been on Thursday night, the 19th.
Q. In your opinion, had the sheriff then exhausted his powers and resources to cope with the mob?
A. I, of course, cannot judge that; that is a question of fact. I can only judge of it from what other people have told me. I can judge from what I personally have seen of this mob myself, coming in on the train every day, for these trains had been delayed for two or three days. The freight trains were accumulating, and had been detained for some days before that or some time before that--at least one day--one whole day, if not another. I should judge from the crowds I saw assembled about the trains myself, and from descriptions of them by others, that it was not possible for the sheriff with any posse comitatus that he could obtain to deal with them, and I will tell you on what I found my opinion. This was a combination, I may say, of what we call here in Pittsburgh, the striking element. I don't think any man will say that he found a preponderance of the railroad men in their assemblages about Twenty-eighth street, or the Union depot, or other places on the road. Everybody out of work who belonged to what we call the striking population, were directed by sympathy or opinion towards these people. It was not a body of railroad men alone, and I don't think that the larger part of them were railroad men--the iron workers, the people who work in rolling mills, and the people who work in the various branches of industry, were all in sympathy with them, so far as I observed, and so far as my knowledge, derived from others, extends, and it was a sort of massing of the striking element here. The strike of the Pennsylvania railroad men being simply the occasion that brought them together.
Q. Let me ask you another question: In your judgment, had the sheriff at that time, under the act of 1864, laid the grounds for calling on the Governor for aid?
A. I don't remember--I have not the act of 1864 before me, and I don't remember whether it defines any ground. My recollection is, that the act itself does not define more than in general terms, at least, the ground upon which the executive aid maybe invoked. I was satisfied of this, and I think Senator Scott was. I know from his conversations with me that it was such a gathering, with such a purpose, and with such a determination that, at least, the Pennsylvania Railroad Company did not expect to deal with them without military forces to aid them, and I think that that was the prevalent impression. One of the sheriffs deputies told me that, though he had served in the army three years, he never had encountered any danger that alarmed him like the danger he expected to encounter here. He was a man willing to do his duty. It was a mob that inspired some terror, even at that time. Before any blood was shed, there was a general apprehension of trouble. I have seen many strikes here of coal diggers, of men engaged in iron mills and glass houses, and the various departments of industry. In fact, we have been a good deal accustomed to them, but there had never before been very much actual, positive mischief coming from them, and I never before saw a mob the people were afraid of, before that one in this city. However, I must say I saw but little of it until Saturday, and then the soldiers had been called out under the command of General Pearson, and some Philadelphia soldiers had arrived. On Saturday, the feeling was angry, it was threatening and severe.
Q. What preparations is it necessary for the sheriff to make, or what are his duties under the laws of the State of Pennsylvania before calling on the Governor for aid?
A. Well, gentlemen, I think the law on that subject has been very much changed by the act of 1864. That is here. I would like to refer you to it. I think very radical changes were made in the law relative to calling out the militia, by the act of 1864, that has been much adverted to lately. I think it establishes a very different system.
Q. From that heretofore in practice?
A. I think so. I think it is altogether different. As I understand that law, it is not necessary at all that the sheriff should notify the Governor. It might be done by the mayor, or alderman, or even by any citizen. The Governor himself judges of the sufficiency.
Q. As you understand the law, is it necessary for the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse comitatus before calling on the Governor?
A. I certainly would think the sheriff, the principal peace officer of the county, ought to make some effort to get a posse comitatus to control that riot; but there are cases where the riot has taken such proportions, as I think this one had--I do not regard it as local at all, for it extended from the Mississippi to the Atlantic--there are such cases where no posse comitatus could deal with them at all.
Q. At the time the sheriff made the call on the Governor, was it not principally local?
A. As to that I cannot speak from personal knowledge. What has been told to me was, in substance, this: That when the sheriff first met the gathering at Twenty-eighth street, there was a large collection of people, numbering, I don't know how many, but one or two thousand people, and this was in the middle of the night--towards eleven o'clock at night. They were gathered there. They insulted the sheriff, threw all sorts of reproaches upon him, blasphemy and obscenity of the very worst character were employed--this I don't know personally, but it has been told to me--and threats were made. Now, it is a question upon which you can judge as well as I, whether, when a crowd can be brought together at that hour of the night--a crowd greatly in excess of all the railroad men in this part of the country--whether any collection of citizens you might obtain, would be able to successfully disperse them, and it is a question very hard to determine.
Q. Would it, in your judgment, be the duty of the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse before calling on the Governor?
A. Unless the effort was plainly fruitless, I would not understand the law to require him to do a thing that is plainly unnecessary. If an armed force would come into the county which the sheriff evidently could not deal with citizens, especially without arms, I would not think it necessary to expose himself to any sacrifice of life. If the disturbance were local, I think he ought to make a serious effort to disperse it, before calling on the Governor. The law, as I understand it, and the only law in force on this subject, is the act of 1864, which was passed during the war--during the time of the rebellion, and when there were disturbances in different parts of this State. I understand it authorizes the Governor to call out the militia, on any information that satisfies his mind, whether it is of an official character or not. It is in these terms:
"When an invasion of, or insurrection in, the State is made or threatened, or a tumult, riot, or mob shall exist, the commander-in-chief shall call upon the militia to repel or suppress the same, and may order our divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, or companies, or may order to be detached parts or companies thereof, or any number of men to be drafted therefrom, and may cause officers to be detailed, sufficient with those attached to the troops to organize the forces."
That was not the law until 1864. At one period in Pennsylvania, when the military were called out, they were to be under the command of the sheriffs. That was changed by the act of 1857--I am not entirely sure about that--it was about that time, and in case of an insurrection, application was to be made to a judge, and so forth. But it will be observed that that law seems to supply all existing legislation on the subject, and applies to cases of insurrection, invasion, mobs, tumults, and riots, and also authorized the Governor when these exist, to call them out, though it don't prescribe on what terms or conditions he shall call them out. I take it that if you, Mr. Chairman, or any gentleman in whom the Governor had confidence, were to communicate with him information that a mob or tumult existed, and it was necessary to call out forces to deal with them, he would be perfectly authorized in calling out the militia, whether his information is of official character or not.
Q. Did you communicate your views, as you have given them to us, to Sheriff Fife?
A. Yes; I said I approved of what he had done. He had sent these telegrams on Thursday night, and as I stated to you, I didn't see him until afternoon.
Q. You approved of what he had done?
A. I approved of what he had done, and I think that view was the view of Mr. Scott, the solicitor of the railroad, and I think of everybody that were cognizant of the fact. At a later period, during the week succeeding the destruction of the property, the various railroads here--the Fort Wayne and Chicago, the Pittsburgh and Cleveland, and the Allegheny Valley, the Baltimore and Ohio, and the Charleston and Virginia road sent written demands to the sheriff, setting forth that a tumultuous body of men were holding their property, and threatening to destroy it, and calling upon him to protect the property. The sheriff made a demand for aid upon General Brown, who was in command of the Sixth division, having succeeded General Pearson, who had been relieved, to enable him to protect this property. I cannot give you the views the military had of their duty here----
Q. We will take the evidence of the military men?
A. There is a communication, and a copy of the communication, written by myself, and sent to General Brown, in fact, it is the original letter, which I have here, to General Brown, making a demand, and I have a copy of his reply. The sheriff, at the same time, or before that time, had constituted General James S. Negley his deputy, for the purpose of preserving the public peace and dispersing the rioters. General Negley was recruiting a body of men to act in preserving the peace. It was said he had several hundred men, and the sheriff, after consultation, clothed him with all the civil character which the sheriff himself had in dealing with these disturbances.
Q. What time was that done?
A. That was done somewhere about the 25th of July. It is about the date of this letter. [Indicating.] This letter will, perhaps, explain about what the sheriff's views of duty were, if you will permit me to read it.
Q. I don't see hardly how that would be necessary, because he called upon the Governor as commander-in-chief to send troops?
A. But the Governor was not here with his troops.
Q. Well, he ordered his troops out?
A. There were no troops here at that time, except the Sixth regiment. General Brinton had been here on Saturday, but he had left with his troops. There were no troops here, except the Sixth division, commanded then by General Brown, and composed of the Fourteenth, Eighteenth, and Nineteenth regiments.
Q. Is this of a character to give directions to General Brown or asking him for aid?
A. Asking him for aid.
Q. I think it would be proper to have it read.
The witness then read the following communication:
SHERIFF'S OFFICE, PITTSBURGH, July 26, 1877.
To GENERAL JOSEPH BROWN, in command of the Sixth Division National Guard of Pennsylvania:
SIR: I have the honor to enclose to you copies of the following communications, addressed to me under date of the 25th and 26th days of July, inst., by Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, solicitors for the Pennsylvania company, operating the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railway, and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh railroad; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis Railway Company; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Virginia and Charleston Railroad Company, and by Welty McCullough, solicitor of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company and the Pittsburgh and Connellsville Railroad Company, representing, in substance, that the property of the respective railway companies is in immediate and constant danger of destruction at the hands of a body of rioters and disaffected workmen, which may at any time become a mob, and which said companies believe has an intention of destroying said property.
I beg leave to inform you that since the present disturbances began I have made efforts to summon a posse comitatus to suppress the unlawful and riotous proceedings of the persons referred to in the enclosed communications, but have been hereto unsuccessful in procuring the services of any considerable number of men willing to come to my aid as a posse comitatus. My consequent inability to disperse the unlawful assemblages referred to (or some of them) has been communicated to the Governor, who has ordered out the military power of the State for that purpose. I cannot protect the property referred to without your aid. Can you give it? I am well persuaded that no mere civil force that I can raise can protect this property. If you can give me the aid of your military force please inform in writing immediately.
Yours respectfully,
R. H. FIFE, Sheriff.
Signed by the sheriff. It was dated the 26th, and the answer of General Brown came two days afterwards, July 28th, and is as follows:
[Official Business.]
HEADQUARTERS SIXTH DIVISION, NATIONAL GUARD, PENNSYLVANIA.
(Copy.)
PITTSBURGH, July 28, 1877.
Hon. R. H. FIFE, Sheriff Allegheny county, Pennsylvania:
SIR: Yours of date 25th instant came to hand July 26, at 7.20, P.M., in which you request the aid of the National Guard of Pennsylvania to protect the property of the several railroad companies centering in the city of Pittsburgh, now threatened by mobs. You will, wherever there may be any riotous proceedings, bring all the powers with which you are clothed to disperse the rioters. After you have made such effort and are overpowered, your posse comitatus completely driven from the ground, then I am ready and fully able to assist you, and am now ready to assist you, when assured your power is exhausted.
Very respectfully,
Joseph Brown, Brigadier General commanding Sixth Division N.G.P.
Received July 28, 1877, at 9.30, A.M.
I sent a verbal message to ask General Brown whether he thought it was his duty to wait until the posse comitatus was completely driven from the ground. If his duty was merely to bury the dead, we could get somebody to do that as well as him.
Q. This is dated the 28th?
A. It was after any actual destruction of property, and this railroad property was still held by the rioters, and they wouldn't allow trains to move.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. It was a week after the Saturday?
A. It was just a week. The Governor hadn't arrived with his troops, and didn't arrive until some days afterwards--the next week.
Q. What troops did General Brown have under his control?
A. General Brown had under his control the Fourteenth regiment and the Eighteenth regiment and the Nineteenth regiment, Pennsylvania National Guards, all raised in and about this place.
Q. Do you know how many of them were on duty at that time?
A. I cannot say how many were on duty, except from what I have heard, but I have heard the number estimated, and I think I have heard military men say some three or four hundred altogether. General Brown's head-quarters was less than one square from the court-house, and we could get no answer from him at all until two days afterwards. He says in his reply he received the communication, twenty minutes past seven, P.M., on the 26th. After waiting two days he replied, and replied in the manner set forth.
Q. I wish you to state where Sheriff Fife was on Sunday, during the riot, so far as you know?
A. Sheriff Fife was in the city, at home, as I have learned.
Q. During the day, Sunday?
A. The whole day Sunday. I have never heard he was out of the city at all.
Q. Did you see him any time during Sunday in the city?
A. I didn't see him any time during the day, but I saw him on Monday, the next day. It was reported that the sheriff had been killed--it was telegraphed all over the country. I saw the sheriff on Monday, was in his company, and in his office. As to the sheriff himself, I may say this about it, that I personally advised the sheriff, when he went up on Saturday, to constitute a deputy to take charge of this force. The sheriff had, three times during the year preceding, been at the point of death with heart disease, and I don't think he was in a fit condition to go at all, but he insisted on going, and did go, both on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I know nothing more, gentlemen, that I can tell you about this.
At this point the committee adjourned until three o'clock, this afternoon.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
PITTSBURGH, Wednesday, February 20, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee met at three o'clock. All present except Messrs. Means, Reyburn, and Torbert.
* * * * *
William N. Riddle, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the city of Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your business?
A. Cashier of the Penn Rank.
Q. State whether you had any negotiations or any conference with the strikers during the riots of July last, and if so, what it was?
A. I had conversations with the strikers on, I think, Friday before the riot, and Sunday of the riot.
Q. State what the conference was on Friday--that is, you mean Friday, the 21st of July?
A. Friday before the riot. The conversation was at East Liberty, with the strikers. I went there to see about some stock that had been consigned to us. While there, I got in conversation with them. They seemed to demand their rights of the railroad, but they didn't want to inconvenience any stock dealers there, nor anybody else--didn't seem to want to interfere with the business--wanted their rights--seemed peaceable enough to me on Sunday. I suppose the paper that is here--that is what I am to testify--in regard to that, (the paper referred to by the witness is the paper written to W. C. McCarthy, and will be found in the testimony of Doctor Donnelly,) I was requested, I think, by Major McCarthy, after the citizens meeting on Sunday, at the city hall, to go to Twenty-eighth street and see if I could make any arrangements, or see what the feeling was out among the strikers. I went there, and found this man Cunningham--I don't say it was him, it was a man that was pointed out to me as Cunningham. He said he was willing to go down and join Captain McMunn, and help us citizens suppress the mob. Then this paper was to go to the mayor. I met some one on the corner who said he was going there, and he, this man Cunningham said, would deliver the note properly, and he sent this note to the mayor. This man Cunningham said, that he also thought the Pennsylvania railroad had treated them wrong, but that he was very much opposed to the destruction of property, and that he was willing to join with the citizens, and go down and help suppress the mob then going on--I suppose they were at that time. I couldn't state what hour this was. They must have been in and about the Union depot and elevator.
Q. Who is the man Cunningham. Do you know about his history?
A. I know nothing at all. Never saw him before or since this day. Wouldn't know him now.
Q. Was he a railroad man?
Q. He was a brakeman or engineer on the railroad--one of the strikers said to be at the meeting at the city hall. I cannot testify that that was the man.
Q. This is the note you sent to the mayor after the conversation with Cunningham?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you read this, so the reporter can take it down?
"HONORABLE W. C. MCCARTHY: I have gone to Twenty-sixth street. Cunningham, of the strikers, with Captain McMunn, say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you. I will do my best. Tell Doctor Donnelly; and if they come, see that they get instructions." "Instructions" meant--I suppose that means get instruction where to go.
Q. Do you know whether this was delivered to the mayor or not?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. What time did you send this to him?
A. That I wouldn't like to say. I suppose it was about four o'clock in the afternoon--Sunday afternoon.
Q. Who is Captain McMunn?
A. He was also a prominent man among the strikers. He made a speech at the city hall that is recorded. A very good hearted man. I knew him before.
Q. What was his situation on the railroad; do you know?
A. I don't.
Q. Was he in the employ of the railroad company at the time the strike broke out?
A. I cannot say that he was then. I was always led to believe he was before. I used to live at the Union depot, and I know most of these people by sight. I have seen him several times, and talked to him on the street since the riot.
Q. Do you know whether he is in the employ of the company now or not?
A. I don't, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you understand from the conference you had with Cunningham that the strikers would unite with good citizens to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?
A. Yes; that some of the strikers would--the ones inclined peaceably?
Q. What did Mayor McCarthy say in reply to this note? Did you ever learn?
A. I never got an answer. In fact, I don't think I ever asked, because when I came down the people had all gone up to the depot--all that seemed to want to join. In fact I am positive I never said anything about it afterwards. I suppose if they had gone there they would have been assigned to proper places.
Q. Were they to act in conjunction with Doctor Donnelly and his armed force?
A. Yes; that was the understanding. I think Captain McMunn told me to go to this man Cunningham, and that he would help us.
Q. They were to join Doctor Donnelly?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they ever join Doctor Donnelly?
A. That I can't say. I don't know. They might have joined without my knowing it.
Q. State, if you know, what efforts were made by the city authorities to get a force to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?
A. At what particular time, or do you mean in general?
Q. At any time during the riots--during the violence?
A. I can tell you very briefly--it would have to be----
Q. Only what you know of your own personal knowledge what effort was made by the mayor and his subordinates to suppress the riots and disperse the mob?
A. I only know that in the morning I went to the mayor and asked--early in the morning----
Q. The day it commenced?
A. On Saturday. I was in Allegheny that night. I went to the mayor early in the morning, and asked him if there was anything that could be done--asked him if he couldn't get a few extra police by issuing a call for extra police.
Q. That is the mayor of Pittsburgh?
A. Mayor McCarthy; yes, sir. He said the police committee were then in session up stairs. I asked him if he would allow me to go up, and request them to issue a call and guarantee their payment. He said, I might. I went up and stated the case, and they said to me, that they had authorized the mayor to employ a certain number, which I don't know now, of police. I went to the mayor and asked him if he would--after that there was a meeting at the city hall, pretty shortly after that--I asked the mayor if he could get any extra police. He said, he couldn't get them, he had tried, and couldn't get them. I joined the mayor after that, and went to the city hall meeting. Going down Fifth avenue, I asked the mayor if he was going to make an attempt to get additional police, as he had been authorized by the police committee. He said he was, but who was going to guarantee the payment of this money. I told him we would fix that part of it, if that was all the hang there was to it. We got to the city hall meeting, went on and got partly through. If I remember right, I said I would be one of so many that would pay the police, if he felt backward about employing them. Then I know after that, he made an attempt to get men, and succeeded, I don't how far, but he got a few, at least, later in the day. I asked him if he was going to send out police, and he said he had not been asked to do so.
Q. Send them to the scene of the riots?
A. Yes; I am a friend of Mayor McCarthy, and I am simply testifying as a citizen. I think there is very much of a mix somewheres--who it belongs to or where it rests--it ought to be placed somewhere. There is a very decided mix.
Q. I wish to ask you another question. Do you know what efforts were made by the sheriff and his subordinates or the county authorities to suppress the riot?
A. I don't know anything about that, nothing at all except hearsay.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Had you had any talk with Mayor McCarthy before Sunday?
A. No, sir; not on this subject.
* * * * *
Reverend Sylvester F. Scoville, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you at the citizen's meeting on Sunday?
A. I arrived just at the close of it.
Q. What occurred then?
A. I had been appointed a member of the citizens' committee. I went with them to city hall, and from that went in carriages to the mob.
Q. Who accompanied you?
A. Bishop Tuigg, a father of the catholic church, whose name I have forgotten--Mr. Bennett, I think his name is J. I. Bennett--Mr. J. Parker, junior, and others, whose names I forget at the moment. There were two carriages. Doctor Donnelly, I remember him distinctly, he was there. Our contact with the mob was very brief. Railings were torn from the fence on Liberty street; but we made our way to the end of the platform of the car--the rear platform of the car. One of the gentlemen sought to call the people to order, and introduced Bishop Tuigg, who endeavoured to address them. They listened for a few moments, and then interrupted with questions. After a few moments further they began to throw clinkers or pieces of iron, and we were warned by apparent friends to withdraw, with the words, "It is growing very hot here." Other ineffectual attempts were made to address the meeting. After withdrawing we proceeded to Twenty-sixth street, with a view of meeting the strikers, and attempting to dissociate them from the rioters, with the hope that they would assist in suppressing the riot. It was impossible to find the leaders. One or two, who seemed to have some influence, were finally seen. Then the citizens' committee went to visit the railroad authorities at a private house in Allegheny.
Q. What was said to the strikers that you found, and what did the strikers say?
A. Those who were found disclaimed any sympathy with the riot, and they were appealed to do what they could to suppress it.
Q. Did they seem willing to help in suppressing the arson and riot that was then going on?
A. They made no motion in that direction, but there were very few--they were so scattered here and there. So far as I could see, all that was accomplished by that committee was to direct the attention of the few to the efforts that were going on in the city to organize a force. The character of the rioters appeared to me to be such as belonged to people habitually in Pittsburgh. I saw no evidence of their being strangers.
Q. What class of people were they?
A. By their dress and language, they were laborers.
Q. Laborers from the factories, and rolling-mills, &c.?
A. I should think so. Yes, sir.
Q. Were there no railroad employés that were actually engaged in the arson and burning and riot?
A. I recognized none whom I knew as railroad employés, but it was evident that somebody that understood the management of engines were there, and the crowd was not wholly confined to those whose dress looked like laboring men. They seemed to have no wish to injure anything but the railroad, and clamored to know whether any proposition came directly from the chief of the road, Mr. Scott, and when they found no such proposition was to be given to them, they would not listen to any other.
Q. What time was it that you visited the scene of the riot?
A. From half past two to three. Do you wish to know anything in regard to the interview with the authorities?
Q. Yes; I would like to have you relate the interview with the city authorities?
A. I mean with the railroad authorities.
Q. Relate the interview with the railroad authorities?
A. By the time we had arrived at the private house, in Allegheny, the depot was in flames, and I think also the elevator. So that they answered in a word, that all the mischief had been done which they could sustain, and they had no proposition for a compromise to make, and it is just to say, that they would have said the same if they had other interests. They plead also the general interest of the community as a reason for not treating with those in rebellion against the authorities. I know nothing whatever in regard to the conduct of the city authorities, except what could be observed from the outside of the building--the city hall--the new city hall--from five to seven o'clock--the formation of the companies--they went up to the scene of the riot, and their return, which I witnessed, that was all.
Q. Companies of citizens?
A. Citizens--young men mainly. Mr. McCune, and myself, and some others were with the mayor at the time of the issuance of the first proclamation, reading, I think, in this way: "Veterans, to the rescue. Meet at city hall at ten o'clock," I think, "the citizens will follow you."
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Whose proclamation was that?
A. Written, I think, by myself, at the instance of the mayor. That was on Monday. There was no citizens' meeting then, that I knew of. This proclamation was designed to meet the necessity which came upon us, through the information of other persons coming from a distance--a boat load down the Monongahela, and the cars full from McKeesport. That was very soon afterward superceded by another notice, and General Negley took the whole charge from that. I was engaged in visiting the wounded. That is all I know in regard to it, except these expressions of opinion I heard here and there.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many were actually engaged in the burning and riot, when you were out at the scene of the riot?
A. At the time we were there, before the firing of the depot, the multitude was in an elongated form, stretching up the railway, so that all were not visible at any one point. But those that were visible to us, would number anywhere from two to three hundred who seemed actually participating, while towards the city there was a large crowd.
Q. Bystanders and lookers on?
A. Yes; many of whom I recognized as our citizens, and persons of standing in the community. Many statements have been made with regard to the ease of checking the multitude at that point, which are certainly hard to prove. No small force could have stopped them at that time--that is, of course, in my judgment. I know very little about such things. Some boys were in the multitude, and several of them evidently under the influence of drink, and fainting from exhaustion and excitement. But the most of them were stalwart men, under most powerful excitement.
Q. Under the influence of spirits?
A. We could see that only in a few cases, of course, where it come to such evidence that they were overcome by it. It is evident, there were a number of boys who were on the point of falling, from exposure to the sun.
Q. Were these two or three hundred that you speak of armed, so far as you could see?
A. We saw no arms. The engine that was near us--there seemed to be an effort of some to move it; but, if I understood rightly, those who wished to remove the engine were pulled down from it, and not suffered to move it.
Q. Who had called the meeting that appointed you a committee?
A. The notice I received and read from the pulpit was signed J. I. Burnett, but his name was crossed out, as though he desired it to be impersonal--written hurriedly on a piece of paper with a pencil. I announced, at the time, that "this notice comes to me without signature, and I am unable to say in whose name it is."
Q. Was that read in the pulpit of the churches pretty generally?
A. I am not advised as to that.
Q. At what hour?
A. At the close of the service.
Q. Morning service--that would be about twelve o'clock?
A. Yes; about twelve o'clock.
Q. How large was the gathering of the citizens at the meeting?
A. I came just at its close, but I suppose, from the area they occupied in the street, that it was from one hundred and fifty to two hundred.
Q. This appointment of this committee was with a view of trying to stop the arson and riot by peaceable measures?
A. Conciliation--yes. Our effort with the railroad authorities was based upon previous efforts to dissociate the rioters from the strikers, and remove that cause of complaint, and the only proposition that was made was whether they could make any proposition.
Q. Did you report back to the citizens' meeting?
A. We started for the citizens' meeting. We arrived shortly before its close, but for what reason, I could not understand, our chairman made no report. Probably because there was nothing to report--nothing that had been done, or could be done.
Q. How soon after you came back was it before the citizens began to organize into companies for the purpose of protection?
A. Almost within half an hour. While we were standing on the verge of the assembled crowd, they began to form in line, and march to the city hall. I remember the person who headed the column.
Q. Were these companies armed that night?
A. They were armed when they reached the city hall.
Q. With what?
A. With muskets, as I understood, taken from the armory of the university, as I was afterwards told, without ammunition.
Q. How many citizens were there in arms that night do you think?
A. Do you mean at night or at that time?
Q. At that time?
A. At that time, I saw probably a hundred.
Q. Did it increase in number?
A. No; it seemed to diminish. Going down to the Duquesne depot, at nine o'clock, I was told that quite a large number had come originally to guard the depot, but all had dispersed, except six.
* * * * *
Frank Haymaker, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Examined by Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Part of the time in the city and part of the time at Laurel station, four miles below the city.
Q. A deputy of Sheriff Fife's?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State whether you accompanied Sheriff Fife to Twenty-eighth street, on the night of Thursday, the 19th of July last, and what took place there?
A. On the 18th of the month, I went to the country. On the 19th I got back. I heard they were striking in town here, and there were a good many men got on the cars coming in along, and they were talking considerably about it on the road coming in--talking that they were coming in to take part in the strike. That was on Thursday, the 19th of the month. I noticed men along the road, on the road coming in, and some of them yelled at those parties who got on the train to send them out grub--they had been out for some time, and hadn't had anything to eat. They were out at East Liberty. I came in town. Didn't notice much of a crowd in the city. That was late in the evening, and I went to bed that evening about nine o'clock. I think it was about two o'clock I was wakened by Sheriff Fife himself. He said they wished us to go to Twenty-eighth street. We got in a carriage and went to Mr. Pitcairn's office, and from there we went out to where there was a considerable of a crowd gathered.
Q. What occurred there--what was said by the sheriff and done.
A. The sheriff talked to them, and he told them what the result of it would be, and they would have to go away. If they did not, he would have to send for the military. He said he would use all the power that he could, but, he said, if they would not disperse he would have to send for the military. They hooted him and hissed him and gave him a great deal of bad language while I was there. I turned around and came back to Pitcairn's office, and he told me he would not need me any longer, I might go home. I went home and went to bed.
Q. Did he make any attempt to arrest anybody that night?
A. No, sir; not that I know. They were not doing anything at the time we went out there, any more than standing there.
Q. Were they interfering with the trains that were passing?
A. No, sir. I believe they said, though, that they would not--they were not going to let any more trains go out, or something to that effect.
Q. The sheriff made no attempt to disperse the crowd that night, did he?
A. No, sir; the two of us--I don't think there was much use of us making any attempt.
Q. Did he make any attempt to raise a posse?
A. He told me he could not find any other of his deputies--he had sent for several of them, but they were not at home, or something of that kind. He said I was all the one he could find.
Q. Did he call upon citizens to go out?
A. That night?
Q. Yes?
A. No, sir; not to my knowledge--he did not.
Q. Do you know when he sent to the Governor for troops?
A. These men that came for him, told him all they wanted of him, was to go out and make a demand of the crowd to disperse.
Q. Who told him that?
A. I believe it was Mr. Scott told him that.
Q. Did you hear him tell him that?
A. Yes, sir; I am not certain it was Mr. Scott, but I think it was.
Q. Was it one of the railroad officials?
A. It was one of the railroad officials and one of the men that came for the sheriff.
Q. When did the sheriff call on the Governor to furnish him with troops?
A. That night, sir.
Q. After he returned?
A. After he returned.
Q. And before morning?
A. And before morning; yes, sir.
Q. State whether you were with him at any other time?
A. On Friday I was out--Friday morning--to serve some writs, and didn't get back until pretty late in the morning. When I got in, he told me he wanted me to go along out to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. That was the next day?
A. Yes; that was on Friday. We two went down to the depot. The militia was gathered there. We stood there several hours. I think he came to the conclusion not to go out on that day. He told us we could go home again--would not go out before the next day. The next day I was out some place attending to some business in my district, and came back. He told me that the rest of the deputies were all out and they wanted men to go to Twenty-eighth street. That was the day before--that was on Friday, I think it was Friday--he attempted to raise a posse, I would not be certain. He said the rest of the deputies were all through town trying to get a posse to go and assist in making arrests, and told me he wanted me to go out and raise all the men I could--if I could find any, to bring them in. I went out and met a good many men that I knew, and some that I was not acquainted with, anymore than I knew their faces, and spoke to them about going out, and none of them would go.
Q. Where did you go to raise a posse?
A. I went around through the city.
Q. On what streets?
A. I believe all the time I was on Fifth street.
Q. What class of men did you ask to go?
A. Just any man at all that I thought there was any show of getting.
Q. Did you ask any of the business men?
A. I don't remember that I did.
Q. Who did you ask--anybody you met in the street?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You didn't ask strangers, did you?
A. There are a great many men in the city that their faces are familiar, but I don't know their names.
Q. Any citizens?
A. Yes, sir; any citizens I met.
Q. What replies did you get.
A. Some of them stated they didn't want to have anything to do with fighting against the workingmen, other men said, damned if they wanted to go out there to get killed, and such replies as that.
Q. Did you demand--make a demand on them to go?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they absolutely refused?
A. They absolutely refused.
Q. What was done with those men that refused?
A. I never knew of anything being done to them.
Q. Was any report of it made to the court?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Nor no arrests made?
A. No.
Q. State in what way the demand was made?
A. Well, sir, I just made a verbal demand.
Q. In what words?
A. I asked if they would go out, and assist in making arrests at Twenty-eighth street.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did you say to any of them that you commanded them as a peace officer--you demanded their assistance as a posse to assist in suppressing the riot?
A. No, sir; I believe I didn't.
Q. It was a mere request, then, and not a command?
A. I suppose it was.
Q. And they declined?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go outside of the city in search of men?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you call upon professional men?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What class of professional men?
A. Attorneys.
Q. Did you succeed in getting any?
A. They just laughed at me.
Q. Did you call on any physicians?
A. I believe not.
Q. Any dentists?
A. Not that I know of. We don't go to that class of men.
Q. I believe you cannot state anything but what has already been stated?
A. I believe not, sir. I have not heard----
Q. We have had a great many witnesses on that subject?
A. I don't think I can enlighten you any on that subject.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. The sheriff issued no proclamation?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did the sheriff go out himself, and command men to join him in putting down the riot?
A. I couldn't state that, whether he did or didn't. I was not in the office much. I was away in the morning, and when I came back, he requested me to go out.
Q. What were his directions to you?
A. His directions were to go out in town, and get all the men I could to assist in making arrests in Twenty-eighth street. He said there was three or four men there they had warrants for, and they expected trouble, and wanted a posse.
Q. Didn't tell you to make your demands, or what language to use, nor gave you no written summons.
A. Nothing more than what I have told you.
* * * * *
James H. Fife, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Allegheny City.
Q. Brother of Sheriff Fife, of Allegheny county?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you with your brother at any time during the riots of July last?
A. I was with him on Saturday.
Q. With him on Saturday?
A. Yes, sir; went with him from the Union depot up to Twenty-eighth street.
Q. What time did you meet him at the Union depot?
A. I think about two o'clock, as near as I can recollect.
Q. Go on and state what took place from that time on.
A. There was considerable delay, at least I thought so, before we made a start to go from the depot to Twenty-eighth street. There appeared to be a delay with the military. They had not all arrived at the one time, and those that had, had to have something to eat, before they were ready to go on. There appeared to be considerable delay. I think it was near four o'clock before a start was made from the depot--somewheres between three and four o'clock. The sheriff and I think seventeen assistants were in advance of the military, and marched up the railroad street in that way. I understood the object that we were taken for was to assist Constable Richardson in making some arrests. I understood that there was an order issued from court to arrest some ten or eleven of the ring-leaders of the strikers, and we were to assist Richardson in making the rescue, and the military, as I understood it at the time, was to protect us. I walked with my brother the greater part of the way. We went two by two, in advance of the military. We reached the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and the crowd was so dense it was with difficulty that we could get through it. We worked our way on up to Twenty-eighth street. I stood about the center of the street for a considerable length of time, at Twenty-eighth street, where the railroad crosses. You have heard the statements made in regard to the disposition that was made of the military there, and my own views are just the same. They were put into what is termed a hollow square, and then what followed after that----
Q. Did you find any of the men you went to arrest?
A. No, sir; my understanding before we started, and on the way there, and afterwards, was, that Mr. Pitcairn was to point out the men to this Constable Richardson, but I have never seen Mr. Pitcairn but once since, and that was before your honorable body, and I saw no men pointed out. There was no attempt made to arrest that I know of, and I think it was very well that it was so.
Q. When you got to a certain point, the crowd resisted your further progress?
A. It was an impossibility to get through, that was just about it. They were there in large numbers. In front of us appeared to be one dense mass of people, for a square or more, and on either side. Of course they gave away to the military, to a certain extent, up to Twenty-eighth street, and there the military halted, and appeared not able to go any further.
Q. When the hollow square was formed, where was the sheriff's posse?
A. The sheriff was just--the last place I saw him was just at what we would call the corner of this hollow square, on the left hand side as you go up. His posse was--the principal part of them--right in front among the crowd--immediately in front. I know that was my position, and there was several others, I noticed, that went with us, that were within a few feet of me at the time the order to charge bayonets was made. I was, perhaps, no further than to that wall, [indicating about fifteen feet,] from where I am sitting to where the charge was made.
Q. Was any attack made upon the sheriff's posse?
A. None that I know of. I was looking for it; but there was nothing of the kind made. We were distinguished by a badge, so that we could have been known by any person.
Q. Did the sheriff say anything to the crowd?
A. He tried to; but the noise was so great I don't think he was heard, only by a very few in the immediate neighborhood.
Q. What did he say?
A. I don't know really what he did say. I could see that he was talking; but I don't know what he did say. He was perhaps twenty (20) feet from me.
Q. Was any attack made on the military by the crowd?
A. Yes; I presume you gentlemen were up there and can understand me. Just where Twenty-eighth street crosses the railroad there is a road which leads diagonally up the hill to the hospital. Just where that road connects with Twenty-eighth street there was a gate that was hung to close up that road. That gate was swung back, about two parts that way, and here was a pile of stones behind it--between it and this fence. There were two men standing behind that gate, and from the time that these men attempted to make a charge, these men commenced throwing stones at the military.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The stones came from the right and front of the military?
A. Yes; and there was quite a number of pieces of coal and other missiles thrown from the front or from this side here. These two men that throwed them were behind this gate.
Q. This gate is east of the street, isn't it--Twenty-eighth street?
A. East of the street; it is to close that road that runs up the hill to the hospital.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. They commenced throwing when the military got in reach?
A. No, sir; not until the time the charge of bayonets was made.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where was it on Twenty-eighth street?
A. Just at the edge of it.
Q. Just reaching the street?
A. Yes, sir. I saw the two soldiers that were struck with missiles. One of them was knocked down. He got up in a minute. When he dropped his cap had dropped off, and when he got up he held his gun in his left hand this way, butt on the street, and he was wiping his face so, [indicating] it was bleeding very profusely. The other one didn't fall; he was struck some place about the shoulder. These are the only two that I saw that I knew to be struck, and it was over in that neighborhood where these two were struck that the firing commenced, the firing was in that direction, over towards the hill. I didn't see any stone thrown immediately in front, but there was coal and other missiles--pieces of sticks and things of that kind.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you any new facts to communicate to us that have not been gone through?
A. I don't know that I have, unless there will be some question occurring to you.
Q. Do you know what efforts were made by the mayor to suppress the riots?
A. I know nothing about that, only from hearsay.
Q. You live in Allegheny City?
A. Yes; I live in Allegheny City. I live on Anderson street--that is, at the far end of the bridge.
Q. Was there any riot over there?
A. We didn't permit it over there.
Q. Was there any strike?
A. Yes; there was a strike, and the railroad, as I understood it, and to all appearance, was in the possession of the strikers. There was no destruction of property.
Q. How large a crowd of strikers was together at any one time?
A. At one time, I suppose, I saw two or three or four hundred together at the outer depot.
Q. What day was that?
A. That was on Sunday. They didn't appear to destroy any property, everything appeared to be just at a stand-still. There was men standing talking, and didn't appear to molest anybody.
Q. What preparations were made by the city authorities of Allegheny City, to protect themselves and to keep down the riot?
A. Meetings of the citizens were called at the public square--the mayor's office--and of course there was a great deal of talk like there is at all these kind of meetings, and a good many propositions made, but the one that was adopted, was, that they should organize the citizens into a military force, and did it, so that General Lesieur--General Lesieur was the colonel of the round-head regiment during the late trouble. He is now a practicing physician in Allegheny City.
Q. What time was it organized?
A. Sunday afternoon or Monday afternoon, the time of the troublest times, anyhow.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Go on?
A. To let you know a part of what was done, I live adjacent to the bridge. There was a piece of artillery planted there, and sixteen men, armed with muskets, stood there as a guard for a week, every night, and I was informed it was so down at the other bridges, and the street cars that run over that line, many of them, were stopped just at the end of the bridge, and one of these military would look in to see who was in. There was persons coming, as I understood, from a distance here, roughs and rowdies, &c., and the object was that they shouldn't come in Allegheny City--they had to go back on this side.
Q. How long did that crowd continue there at the outer depot--of strikers?
A. I don't know the length of time it continued; there was more or less of them there for several days, until the thing got settled.
Q. What was done by the mayor and his subordinates prior to the citizens' meeting in Allegheny City--Mayor Philips?
A. Well, I don't know precisely what was done, it is only from hearsay, and that, of course, is not evidence.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was this meeting called by the mayor?
A. Called by the mayor, as I understood.
Q. Organized a force?
A. Yes, sir. I don't know the number, but the number is quite small, compared with this city. I saw myself, on Sabbath day, a policeman stop two persons that were carrying stuff away, that afternoon, they had got from some of the cars here. It was plunder. They stopped them and took them with them, I presume to the lock-up. I don't know, but I suppose so.
Q. Plunder and all?
A. Plunder and all. A question has been raised here frequently about who gave orders to fire up there. I think I was in a position that I would have known.
Q. That is, at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes; I heard no order given by any one, and during the time the firing was in progress, I saw a man that was represented, that I understood to be General Brinton, trying, apparently, to stop it. He was using his sword this way, [indicating,] under their guns, to get them to shoot up or quit. That was the idea conveyed to my mind.
Q. I would like to ask you another question or two in relation to this citizens' meeting in Allegheny City. Were the people generally in Allegheny City unwilling to respond, or did they willingly respond to the call of the mayor, and organize themselves into a military organization.
A. I think so--all that was needed. I think there was no difficulty there.
Q. How large was the response--was the meeting in response to the mayor's call?
A. This thing of fixing numbers is kind of guess work. I don't know. There was two or three hundred, perhaps, when I saw them. I think, if you would call Mayor Philips, he could give you that perhaps better than I could.
Q. Was there anybody who refused, to your knowledge?
A. I don't know of a single one that refused in Allegheny City--I don't know of any.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Mayor Philips take active measures to raise a force for the purpose of preventing or suppressing violence and riot?
A. I so understood that he did.
Q. He did his duty well?
A. I think so; and the evidence of it is, that he had his men at these bridges, guarding them, and keeping them there for a week, a piece of artillery and twelve or sixteen men at every bridge.
* * * * *
George Olnhausen, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Over on the south side, on Carson street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Window glass business.
Q. Were you a member of any of the military companies?
A. Yes; pay-master of the Fourteenth regiment.
Q. On the ground or scene of the riots?
A. Yes; I was there.
Q. What day first?
A. It was on Saturday. We started on Friday afternoon, or rather Saturday morning, to go up there, about four or five o'clock.
Q. Were you there before the arrival of the Philadelphia troops?
A. Yes; we arrived about three or four o'clock.
Q. Colonel Gray and the entire Fourteenth regiment?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he there on Saturday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In command of his regiment?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many men did he have on arrival?
A. On arrival we had twenty-seven officers and one hundred and seventy-eight men on Twenty-eighth street.
Q. How long were you on duty there before the arrival of General Brinton and his troops.
A. I think when we got there it was between four and five o'clock, and stayed there until Brinton came. It was, I think, perhaps two or three o'clock; I think somewheres near that time.
Q. Was anything said or done by Colonel Gray about clearing the track before the arrival of General Brinton?
A. Yes. In the morning when we first got there there was a little excitement--it didn't amount to really very much, but by ten or eleven or twelve o'clock, one, &c., it got on worse all the time; that is, there was a great many more men got there, and Colonel Gray sent me down--I think it was between two and three o'clock--to give Colonel Hartley Howard his compliments, and said, if they would cooperate with them he would clean that track. Colonel Howard acknowledged the compliments, and said he didn't think it was proper to do that.
Q. What regiment did Colonel Gray command?
A. The Nineteenth.
Q. Where was he stationed then?
A. He was laying just about this gate Mr. Fife spoke about here a little while ago.
Q. Where abouts was the Fourteenth regiment then?
A. Right up on the hill.
Q. Commanding the hill?
A. Commanding the hill--that is, we were laying there. I went and reported the matter to the colonel, that Colonel Howard didn't think it was justifiable in doing that, and that ended the matter.
Q. Which officer was senior in command then, Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard?
A. Colonel Gray is senior in command. Colonel Gray sent down that word. I don't suppose that he meant or wanted to shoot or use any extra force, just simply wanted to get them to go away from the track; at least that is my impression.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was the message in the form of an order to Colonel Howard from Colonel Gray?
A. No, sir; I don't think it was in the form of an order. Just simply stating, that, if he would cooperate, they would clear the track together. At that time we had four or five companies, and just as soon as one company would march by they would rush in again, and kept on that way all the time, from ten o'clock until the afternoon. It was very annoying, because the men were very nearly played out.
Q. You may state what condition Colonel Gray's regiment was in, as to obeying orders, and whether it was disposed to obey orders.
A. The majority of the men were. Of course, there were some few that were in sympathy with the strikers. In fact, almost everybody in Pittsburgh was in sympathy with the strikers.
Q. How many of Colonel Gray's regiment was in sympathy with the strikers?
A. I should judge there would be about thirty-two.
Q. That couldn't be depended upon in case of an attack on the mob?
A. I suppose there might not have been that many, not quite thirty-two you couldn't depend on, but there was thirty-two missing that night, and I didn't hear of any of them being shot, and I suppose they must have gone away.
Q. They skulked, in military parlance?
A. Yes; that was generally the case. I would also state, that when we were disbanded at the Union depot we had twenty-eight officers and one hundred and forty-six men. We had one officer more.
Q. When were you disbanded?
A. It was about eleven o'clock Saturday afternoon.
Q. For what purpose--why did you disband?
A. So far as I can learn, as General Brinton gave the orders to Colonel Gray, Colonel Gray gave it to the officers and his men, and he disbanded--staff officers.
Q. I would like the general to explain what he means by disband.
A. He meant that we should go to our homes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Broke ranks for the evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you re-assembled the next morning?
A. No, sir; we didn't re-assemble the next morning. I was over, and a great many of the other officers were over, to see what we could do, but we didn't re-assemble.
Q. To whom did you communicate these facts?
A. I communicated them to a number of persons.
By Senator Clark:
Q. Will you give the names of those persons?
A. I want to state this fact right here, that I understand this committee to be appointed for the purpose of investigating this transaction. Now, with all due respect to the committee, my idea is, that the committee is appointed for the purpose of investigating the facts.
Q. As a regiment you were not re-organized until Monday morning?
A. Yes, sir; a great many of the officers were there, and I suppose a great many of the men. Everything was so exciting we could not get them together.
Q. While you were on the hill, during Saturday, did your soldiers mingle among the rioters, or did they preserve order?
A. They preserved order. There was a few that would get leave of absence to go down street for something or other--very few.
Q. Did they remain in ranks.
A. Remained in ranks.
Q. You staid there until what hour?
A. We all remained there until the Philadelphia regiments were coming up there, and I got instructions from Colonel Grey to have the troops got ready to move.
Q. At what time did you abandon the hill?
A. I think we received orders to move down there about six o'clock. I guess, perhaps, a little later than that--perhaps a little earlier--I am not positive. We marched down there.
Q. Down where?
A. Down the hill, on to the railroad track at Twenty-eighth street, and then down to the transfer depot, and stayed there until eleven o'clock, or near eleven--half past ten, anyway.
Q. Did you hold your position on the hill until six o'clock----
Senator Yutzy: On Saturday, at the time of the firing?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did the Nineteenth regiment remain on the hill?
A. They were laying below us at the gate.
Q. Did they hold their position until six o'clock?
A. There was some of them did, and some of them did not.
Q. How far is the transfer depot from the round-house.
A. I think the transfer depot is on Sixteenth street--six or eight blocks.
Q. Where were the mob when you marched down to the transfer depot?
A. They were mostly all down along the railroad, at Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Did you meet with any resistance in marching down?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where were they when you disbanded, at eleven o'clock?
A. They were most everywhere then, because, it seemed to me, that all the workmen from the south side, Allegheny City, Sharpsburg, and all from the country had come in here, and so far as I could learn, they were going to clean out the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Had the burning commenced when you disbanded?
A. No, sir; not that I know of. When I got home, I could see over that they were burning--that was about twelve o'clock.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Your regiment was resting on the hill, in good order. What position did they have during the day. Were they at rest--stacked arms?
A. Yes, sir; stacked arms, and we had a guard there.
Q. Your men laid close by the arms?
A. Close by the arms.
0. When you broke ranks down by the Union depot, did you have orders to re-assemble at any time?
A. No, sir; we did not.
Q. Who gave the order to break ranks?
A. Colonel Grey gave orders to his regiment. So far as I could learn, General Brown gave him the orders.
Q. Did they take their arms to the armory, or did they go away, each one taking his own gun home with him?
A. Yes, sir; we were not marched to the armory.
Q. Broke ranks right there at the depot?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any mob there at the depot?
A. Yes, sir; they were running all up and down the street, yelling and shouting.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was there any effort made by your regiment on the 19th to clear the crossing, or keep it clear that day?
A. We were there from three or four o'clock in the morning and until the Philadelphians came in that day, and kept it clear.
Q. How happened there to be such a large----
A. That is to say, suppose this was the track. We would go and clear this off, and then they would get in behind us, shouting and howling and cursing. It kept three or four companies going there all day.
Q. Did you undertake to hold possession of the crossing of the track any distance there at the crossing, or merely clear it off and fall back?
A. Then they would rush in behind us, and we would have to send another company.
Q. How happened there to be such a large crowd on the crossing at the time the Philadelphia troops marched up?
A. I think our regiment had orders--that is the companies--had orders to fall back and let the Philadelphians in. Our orders were, so far as I can remember, that we were to go on a train, and go out.
Q. How long previous to the Philadelphia troops coming up there had you fallen back?
A. I suppose it was about a minute.
Q. Some testify that the mob was mixed up with the troops there near the crossing, and on the side of the hill?
A. They were only mixed up in that way, just as I told you.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The troops were mixed in the crowd?
A. Yes; mixing in the crowd.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How; were they on good terms--the crowd and the troops?
A. They didn't say anything. Some of them said they were going to clean out the militia, we didn't take any notice of that at all.
Q. No particular hard feeling by the crowd against your troops?
A. No, sir.
Q. They showed considerable feeling against the Philadelphia troops--it was supposed that they would clear the crossing there.
A. They were, of course, from Philadelphia, and they didn't like them--that was about it.
Q. Could not the force you had there--these two regiments--could not that crossing there, and the immediate neighborhood, been kept clear entirely by the force you had there?
A. I think they could. That is very hard to tell. We didn't know what might have happened.
Q. Were the efforts of the officers directed in that way--to keep it clear?
A. Yes; of course some of our men were in sympathy with the strikers, but if we were to take away two or three regiments, away to different cities or somewhere out away from Pittsburgh, 1 think they could pretty nearly clean out a city of this size.
Q. You don't think they were as firm in their duty as they would have been in some other city?
A. Yes.
Q. They were a little more tender of the people they were dealing with?
A. Yes; they were friends and relatives.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Fraternize with the people--with the crowd?
A. I think if you would take the Fourteenth regiment out, in fact, even in another riot, they would do their duty. All of our officers were men in the army during the war except one or two. It is like all these other things that are unexpected, and like in the war at first; they were all demoralized, and didn't stand up as well as they did in the last part of the war.
Q. Was the military at any time deployed on the railroad track, and any attempt made to drive them off the track in both directions?
A. That was done all the time--they were kept off most of the time.
Q. Were the military deployed along the track of the railroad?
A. Yes; marched back and forward.
Q. Were they stationed with a skirmish line?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. In your opinion, as a military man, couldn't that mob or crowd have been kept off the track by deploying the men along the track as a skirmish line, or, say two skirmish lines, one on each side of the track?
A. No, sir; I don't think it could, unless you did some shooting.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Could it have been done by doing some shooting?
A. If they had shot everybody that came they couldn't have got on.
Q. Could a skirmish line have maintained its position and kept the crowd back?
A. I don't think they could by shooting, for the reason men, women, and children would come in, and they couldn't have kept it clear--not kept the whole track clear.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The reason I asked him that, was that he said the companies marched over on the railroad and they would fall in behind. I want to know if the military had been deployed with two skirmish lines, why they couldn't have kept the crowd away?
A. There was too many people.
Q. Were the people armed?
A. No, sir; not that I saw. They all might have had revolvers and such things as that, but they had no guns.
Q. Did all that crowd appear to be violent and riotous, or were there a great many there that were simply there out of curiosity?
A. Yes; there was a great many out of curiosity--three or four that were working for me.
Q. How many hundred men do you think there were there that were riotous or disposed to be lawless?
A. I should judge--of course it is a pretty hard thing to tell--there was a great many, indeed--two thousand, anyhow.
Q. What proportion of that crowd were disposed to be riotous or lawless?
A. There might have been five hundred in the first place, but after the shooting commenced all were or pretty nearly all.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. At any time before the Philadelphia troops came, could you have or could the military have dispersed the mob at any time?
A. I think they could, yes.
* * * * *
James I. Bennett, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside, Mr. Bennett?
A. Allegheny city is my residence.
Q. Where is your business?
A. In Pittsburgh.
Q. And what is it?
A. Manufacturing of iron nails, &c.
Q. Been engaged in the business a long time?
A. Twenty years or more. About twenty years.
Q. What is your firm name?
A. Graff, Bennett & Co.
Q. Were you in the city during the riots of July last?
A. I was.
Q. Just give us a statement of what you saw, the hour and date commencing----
A. I was not in the riots. I was in the city, but I was not up to the depot until Sunday--until Sunday afternoon. I didn't feel very much concerned. Saturday is generally a busy day with us, but Saturday afternoon I became anxious about the matter. I had been accustomed to be in a good many of these quarrels with laboring men, and supposed the thing would be adjusted; but on coming home on Saturday evening, from what I heard, learned of the condition of affairs, I became considerably alarmed and very much concerned. I live down that side of the river at my residence, about three miles. After going home, I hitched up my buggy, and came back to the city. When I came into the city, the crowd was just coming, I think, out of Bowers' store. They had cleaned out a gun store--hardware store, on Third street. The first intimation I had of that was seeing a man with a gun, and I asked him what was going on. I was satisfied that he had no business with the gun. He told me there was a large crowd of men had been into Bowers' store and broken it open and taken all the arms that they could get there, and that they were marching then to the railroad. At one point I turned around my horse and buggy and drove back to Mr. Thaw's house, which is on Fifth street. I went to Mr. Thaw's house and I called him out, and we talked about the matter. Thaw didn't appear to be alarmed; he said he was going to his business. He thought there was no danger. I went up again to Third street and Fifth street, and was satisfied in my mind that there was a great deal of trouble, or was likely to be a great deal, and I went back to Mr. Thaw. He spoke of the military coming in, and he thought there was enough to protect. I advised him not to go up to the offices of the Fort Wayne road at all. I think I went back to Mr. Thaw's house the third time, and he then appeared to be very much more concerned and alarmed this time. I think one of his neighbors came down that had been up there. I left him then, and on my way home, in Allegheny city, I went to Mr. McCullough's house. We sat until perhaps eleven o'clock, talking together. Mr. McCullough at first felt entirely satisfied that the military would be sufficient to prevent any serious damage. I felt very much concerned, and advised him to be very careful and not put himself in the way of danger or any trouble.
Q. Who is Mr. McCullough?
A. Mr. McCullough is vice president of the Pennsylvania Company. He is managing man of the Pennsylvania Company's lines.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I would like you to state what the Pennsylvania lines were?
A. The leased lines west of this.
Q. Pennsylvania Central?
A. Their offices are altogether; but they are connecting lines. I live in Allegheny city, and I felt concerned----
Q. What is Mr. McCollough's first name?
A. J. M. He told me there was a regiment coming up on the line of the road that night, and that there was a sufficient number of troops coming in that would prevent any trouble. He felt secure; but, as I said before, I did not. I told him that there was trouble certain ahead, and I felt very much concerned from what I could learn all around, that there was gathering into our city a very bad set of men, and it was hard to tell what the consequences might be. I left him, and started home about eleven o'clock, or perhaps a little after eleven. I got down to Strawberry lane, which is below the shops of the Fort Wayne road. I drove right into a crowd, I presume, of several thousand persons. I had come up that way that night, and there was no person there.
Q. The evening before?
A. That same evening. There were no parties there when I came up, and I drove in and called some of them to know what it meant. I was considerably taken aback, coming unexpected into it, and they told me they were waiting for a train of soldiers that were coming up. Three or four came out that knew me, and said, "Don't you go away;" says I, "Why?" Says he, "they have rifle pits just above there, and if the train comes in you will be in the line of their fire," and I was in sight of my house and my family was there, and I could see the situation, and drove rapidly past them, after inquiring what was going on there. When I came to the bridge crossing, perhaps, a quarter of a mile below there, as I drove up there, there appeared to be sentinels stationed along the line of the railroad across this bridge.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At what point was this?
A. A quarter of a mile below this place where they were waiting.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. On the line of the Fort Wayne and Chicago?
A. They were there patrolling the streets with their guns, as orderly as any soldiers. They were all very sober and polite men, nothing like rioters, and ladies from the adjoining neighborhood had come down to the bridge to see--that was the only place they could see anything--and about the time they expected the train in, these men had gone up to them and asked them to retire back behind the hill, lest a stray shot would reach them. There appeared to be a perfect organization.
Q. What bridge?
A. This was a bridge in Allegheny City, below the outer depot of the Fort Wayne.
Q. Bridge across the railroad?
A. Bridge across the railroad. There appeared to be an entirely perfect organization on that side of the river. They were armed, and were sober men. Some of them knew me--they all knew me--I could not name a great many of them, but most of them knew me.
Q. Were they railroad men--employés?
A. There were a great many of them employés. I was told by other persons they were employés. I could not tell certain, but I made an inquiry, and was told that a great many of those men were employés of the railroad company, and this organization appeared to me to be very perfect, and they were very orderly, and appeared to be very systematic. There was no fighting in this tremendous crowd above. The crowd was there, but they were orderly--no quarreling nor fighting going on.
Q. Were they all men that were in that crowd?
A. No; there was a great many boys, but the most of them were men. I think the great majority of them were men. I stayed there until about twelve o'clock at night, about half past twelve or one, and the report came down about the firing on this side, and the burning of the round-house, and the soldiers having been burned up. We were all very much alarmed. I could do nothing but stay at home, seeing the crowd there, and not knowing what was coming, but in the morning I came to town--on Sunday morning. I stopped in Allegheny, and saw one or two gentlemen, and got them to go over with me. I went to Mr. Barr's office at the Post, but he was not there. He had been there, but had gone out to the outer depot of the Pennsylvania railroad. I went around and saw some other parties, and went down to the Chronicle office. Mr. Sieblich was there, and, I think, the Dispatch people. At the office there were posters out, one for a public meeting of the citizens at twelve o'clock--at half past twelve, at the old city hall, notices of which were then sent to the different churches, that there would be a citizens' meeting--to be read from the pulpits in that neighborhood. There was a large number of churches in the neighborhood There were no citizens but what were extremely anxious to do anything and everything they could do, but they appeared to be paralyzed, and did not know what to do. The reports came in that the military had gone, and that the mob had everything in their own hands, and no one appeared to know just how things stood. That meeting came together, and they adjourned to the mayor's office. I understood that there was a reason for that: that the city hall then was used as an armory, and they had adjourned, as they did not think it was prudent to open that. Some gentlemen I was talking to had made a suggestion that we should go and see Bishop Tuigg, and some other parties who would go out, and see what persuasion would do, and there was no man that was more extensively known than Bishop Tuigg. He said he would do so, and they proposed to get another minister that he would nominate himself to go along with him. At our meeting in the mayor's office, the minister of the First church, Mr. Scoville, was at the meeting, and Mr. Scoville accompanied Bishop Tuigg. Mr. Parke and some other gentlemen went up. At this time the fire had got down--it had burned all the way down to the old market-house--that is a few squares above the depot. We went up, and he addressed these people.
By Senator Yutzy.
Q. Who addressed them?
A. Bishop Tuigg. He did everything he could to get these people to desist. I saw a few there that I knew of our own people, and these I do say were not engaged in burning. After that, we went up to try and find the engineers of the railroad--locomotive engineers. We went up to see them. We got some of the citizens to go to their houses and tell them that we would meet them. We went up there, and were not able to meet any, but two or three of them at a time came in, and Mr. Slagle remained there. Bishop Tuigg and the Reverend Scoville and I went over there to Allegheny City to see the officials of the Pennsylvania Company and Pennsylvania railroad. Mr. Cassatt was there, Mr. Thaw, Mr. McCullough, and their solicitor, Senator Scott. We talked with them upon the subject, but previous to that I had gone down to the Monongahela house, and had met Mr. Cassatt there, and I think Mr. Quay, and a number of gentlemen that were there. I took him in my buggy and took him across to Allegheny City.
Q. Mr. Cassatt?
A. And left him there with the other gentlemen connected with the railroad.
Q. What is Mr. Thaw's first name?
A. William Thaw.
Q. What is his official position?
A. He is also connected with the Pennsylvania Company, in charge of the leased lines of the Pennsylvania railroad.
Q. In what capacity?
A. I think he is vice president.
Q. Mr. Cassatt is connected with what road?
A. Connected with the Pennsylvania Central.
Q. And Mr. Thaw with the Pennsylvania?
A. Mr. Thaw with the Pennsylvania. Mr. Cassatt was at the Monongahela house, and these gentlemen had connection with the two roads running together. He said he would like to go over. I said I would take him over, and took him in my open buggy, which he did not appear to relish very well just at that moment, but really there was no danger. I went down and crossed the lower bridge, and over into the street where Mr. Layng is living. I do not think we saw fifty people. The people had gone up to the fire. Allegheny City was at that time as quiet as it is on any Sabbath day, outside of the immediate neighborhood of the depot. I met no person on Sunday who was not just as anxious as they could be to do anything and everything they could to put down the rebellion, as I called it, for as I have said, I never could recognize it as a riot or anything else than an uprising of the people. On our own side of the river it was comparative quietness, but these men were settled on having their own way. If they had not commenced it before, it was not likely that they could organize as quickly and as thoroughly as they had done.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What was the result of the interview with Cassatt and McCullough and Thaw?
A. I think Bishop Tuigg asked them to make some concessions to those parties, which they declined to make. I think the bishop's idea was to have some little concession made, and the difficulty might be adjusted as between the men and them. That was declined on their part.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What reason did they give?
A. The reason, so far as I understood it at the time it was given, was this: That they would not make any arrangement with men that were in open rebellion against law, and everything of that kind--could not recognize anything of that kind.
Q. What did your committee do then?
A. We came back to the city again, and there was a meeting in the afternoon, and I was at the mayor's office again in the afternoon. The mayor appeared to be entirely powerless. He had no police to do anything with, that amounted to anything. After that we then went to work and organized a citizens' meeting, which was perfected on the next Monday morning, and everything was done by those men that could be done. I do not think I ever saw men work more earnestly in trying to protect the city, and railroad, and everything else.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. At whose instance was the citizens' meeting organized--who were the movers in it?
A. The first I recollect of it was the bulletin boards that were put out on Sunday--that was as soon as the citizens could be got together.
Q. What bulletin boards?
A. The bulletin boards of the Post, and, I think, the Dispatch, the Commercial and Gazette, and I think the Chronicle and Leader. They are nearly all in that neighborhood. I think Mr. Barr was at the organization of the meeting. He was at the meeting they had on Sunday and Monday morning. The citizens were called together again and adjourned until Monday morning. There were a good many of our leading manufacturers that were out of the city, their families were out in the country, and they had gone out on Saturday.
Q. How long did that crowd you speak of in Allegheny City, that you ran into on Saturday nights--how long had that crowd remained in force there?
A. They were there I think nearly all that night. They were away the next morning. When I came up the next morning they were not there, that is, there was no crowd in comparison to what had been there--perhaps not more than usual there.
Q. There were some there?
A. There were some few that were there. They had possession then of the trains.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The strikers had?
A. The strikers had possession of the trains on Sunday morning. They were in possession there at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many were engaged in actual riot and arson out at Twenty-eighth street, when you were there with the bishop?
A. I do not think it was so far as Twenty-eighth street--it was within a few squares of the depot. It would be impossible for any one to say how many were actually engaged in it, but the whole railway connection, so far as you could see, was filled with people on both sides of it--the street on both sides of the railway track. The number that was engaged in it appeared to be but few compared with the great crowd that was there--very few.
Q. What class was the crowd that was there composed of?
A. The citizens you speak of along the street?
Q. Yes?
A. There appeared to be a general outpouring from the entire city--every person. They were attracted there from every place.
Q. By curiosity?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They were lookers-on?
A. They were lookers-on.
Q. Was there a crowd of sympathizers around, immediately around these parties that were engaged in actual riot and arson?
A. There were some that were sympathizers, but so far as my own knowledge went, men of any standing expressed no sympathy with them. A great many of the workingmen felt that the railroad was oppressing these men, and they were in sympathy with them--that is not taking any part in it. There were a great many of our laboring men that were there in their Sunday clothes that were taking no part, but walking around, and a great many of them absolutely appeared to me to be alarmed and frightened. That paralyzed them--not doing anything. I begged of the men, for their own sakes, to try and stop that, and they felt as though their lives were at stake in doing it. They were afraid to say a word; did not know who was their friend or enemy. The men appeared to be going on in a quiet way without saying much to anybody, except this crowd that was before us--we were right in the immediate neighborhood of the burning--as rough a looking set of characters as I ever saw. I have no desire to get amongst such a crowd again very soon.
Q. Were these men laborers or men that you had ever seen in and about Pittsburgh?
A. I could not say that any I saw in the burning were men I ever saw before--could not say that they were men I ever saw before.
Q. Could you tell from their dress what class of people they were?
A. It would be very hard to tell that. I saw a great many of our own men walking around looking on that were employed with us at our mills.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have you an extensive acquaintance with the laboring men?
A. I know a great many of them by sight, and where they work. At the two mills were employed six or seven hundred men, one way or another; and back and forwards I have become quite familiar with them, without knowing their names. Indeed, all the laboring men about the mills, as a general rule they know me by sight, and I know a great many that have worked with us, that are not working with us now, among the better class of mill men and laboring men about the mills. I do not think they were engaged. We have some men engaged with us that are very bad men.
Q. What was it that alarmed you on Saturday and made you apprehensive of the future on Saturday afternoon?
A. What alarmed me first was this, when I began to make an inquiry--that our mills all stopped on Saturday from eleven to twelve o'clock, and the men about the mills had from one to two o'clock. They usually dressed, and generally we see them about in the city, and they are free from any employment. You can imagine the number of laboring men there are about the city; and that, as a rule, would apply to nearly all branches of manufacture.
Q. From your knowledge of the city and manufacturing establishments, give us an estimate of the number of laborers that would be out of employment and at leisure on Saturday afternoon.
A. I could not give you an estimate. I should say you could count it at thousands, though--thousands of men that would be unemployed at that time.
Q. Have you any idea of the number of thousands of laborers employed in and about Pittsburgh?
A. I could not give any correct estimate of that.
Q. Have you had experience before with strikers? Has there been strikes?
A. I have had a great deal to do with them at one time and another in our own business--men that we had employed ourselves.
Q. Is it a thing of very frequent occurrence--strikes among laboring men?
A. It is a common thing, but not so very frequent, these large strikes--what we would call large strikes, where the mill hands in all the mills strike. We frequently have difficulties of that kind in our own mill when it does not occur in any others--upon a particular branch of the business; something of that kind. We have had a number of very large strikes here in the city where all the rolling mills were stopped at one time.
Q. And it was your experience with the strikes, and knowing the number of men that would be idle Saturday afternoon, that made you apprehensive of the result?
A. That made me apprehensive; because these men were idle. They were all idle, and a great many of them are men. For instance, to explain more fully to you: A man comes along and he wants labor. We have our labor bosses. We do not inquire into his character, or anything else. If we need a man badly we put him in. He may be one of the worst men possible, and we may have quite a number of these men about our mills without knowing it. Tramps may come into our town, and if it is a time that labor is a little scarce, we might have fifty of them about us without knowing it--if they behave themselves just whilst they are employed. Bad men may come in and settle down upon us in that way.
Q. Had you been up at the scene of the riot before Sunday?
A. No, sir; I had not been there before that.
Q. Did you at any time during the riot have any talk with the rioters themselves, or the railroad employés, to ascertain their grievances, or the causes of the strike?
A. Not on the Pennsylvania railroad; but I did on the other side of the river, with them over there.
Q. Go on and give us the facts.
A. I had on the Fort Wayne and Chicago. I was among these men at the shops. I went over there one night or two in the shops with those men, talking to them, and they claimed that the railroad company had ground them down; that their wages were such that they could not live. That was their real grievance, and they wanted their wages restored. And they complained of a large portion of the men unnecessarily being thrown out of employment by doubling up the trains. That was the complaint. They had their unions--there are unions existing among the laboring men in our mills. Puddlers have their unions, and we have what is called "The Amalgamated Iron Works Union," which embraces nearly all. The railroad employés had their unions. These unions are all in sympathy with each other, and as a rule, will aid each other. There would be a sympathy existing among these men of all classes, for they felt that they were oppressed by the railroad company; and, as I say, they had the sympathy of the other workingmen of nearly every class--there can be no question of that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Are these unions secret organizations?
A. Yes, sir; I think they are all secret organizations. I have never known any that were not secret organizations. I was there with them, and after some time Mr. McCullough--I don't recollect what day it was--I was with Mr. McCullough, at his office, to get information. Telegraphs were coming there, and I went there to get the news--to see what was going on along the road. Mr. McCullough had not seen any of the men of his own road. I got a gentleman to go and see them and tell them that I thought there should be an interview between them and Mr. McCullough, and I arranged that interview. I think there was one engineer, a fireman, a brakeman, and a conductor--there were four, and they agreed to meet Mr. McCullough, and I went with them and made the arrangement to meet at B. F. Jones' house in Allegheny City. Mr. McCullough came there and met them, and Mr. Layng also. They had a conversation there.
Q. Give us the summary of that conversation?
A. They stated to Mr. McCullough what the grievances were with regard to what the hands wanted. A portion of them denied that they had anything to do with the strike.
Q. That was after the Sunday?
A. This was after the Sunday of the burning. Mr. McCullough talked with them, and the interview was a very pleasant one. Mr. McCullough said he would do all that he could to have everything made right and satisfactory to them whenever the property was once placed in their hands, but whilst they stood out and kept them from their property he could not do anything at all. I told these men--I said to them afterwards that Mr. McCullough was right in his position; that they were in violation of law, and they claimed they were there, and they were not interfering with anybody nor anything, nor had they purposed to interfere with anybody. I told them that their simple presence was enough to show that they were in sympathy with these people. They might almost as well be guilty as to be doing what they were doing. I went down and talked to a number of the engineers with regard to the matter. As a rule, they were vary reticent and very careful about giving any expression at all.
Q. Did they claim a right to stop trains--interfere with trains?
A. Of course, they didn't to me. They were men of too good sense. They denied having anything to do with it. It was always somebody else. As I said, they were there giving countenance.
Q. How did these people define a strike?
A. They said this was not a strike of the engineers. This was a strike of the firemen--the firemen and brakemen, I believe. They threw it on them. I thought things were settled, and they were going to work. I came up and said, "Boys, how is it, I thought you were going to work" They said they were going to have a meeting, and asked me to go with them. I said I would go. They said they were going to have it then. I went down to the meeting in the Odd Fellows' Hall, and went in with them, and was there, and they denied that it was them solely. They said the engineers had as much to do with it as they had--just the same--and that they were encouraging them. I stated to them, then, that I would do all I could to have their pay made right, but there was only one way to do it, that I could see, and that was to report themselves ready for work, and take their positions, and after the road was once running, and in order, then the citizens would see to it that their case was properly represented, and that they would be more likely to get their rights in that way than in any other.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At this time they had possession of the railroad property?
A. They disclaimed having possession of the property. They would not admit that fact. They appeared to understand that that was in violation of the law.
Q. Was that the fact?
A. This was the fact--there was no doubt of that. You could not get any of them to admit it, though.
Q. Did they understand that they had no right to interfere with the running of trains, or with any other employé who desired to work?
A. They denied interfering with any employé. There never was a man yet that said he interfered with any one--never got an admission of that kind from any one. They said if a man wanted to go to work, there was his engine. At the same time, Mr. Layng, superintendent of the road, whilst he was but a few squares from the depot, I think he didn't care about going over to the railroad at that time, I met them the same day, and they went and reported themselves to the officers at the outer depot, and went to work.
Q. From the interviews that you had with the railroad employés, what did you gather as being the cause--the real cause of the strike?
A. From all I could gather from the employés in one way or another, my impression is that it was an organization. That perhaps the strike was a little sooner than was intended. It was a regular organization, intending to make a general strike throughout the whole country at the same time, and it was not the intention to be commenced at Pittsburgh. I think it was all over our country. We might call it an insurrection of these people to take possession and enforce their demands on the people. They then knew that the other labor organizations were in sympathy with them.
Q. What led you to that conclusion?
A. From the fact that these uprisings at Fort Wayne and Chicago and St. Louis, and on the line of the Baltimore and Ohio and Altoona and Harrisburg and Philadelphia. If it had been of an ordinary character, it would have had no influence, except where it originated.
Q. Did you ascertain from the men that there was any communication between the rioters here and the rioters at the other places you have mentioned?
A. I think one told me that they were in possession of the telegraph lines, and knew all that was going on, and one stated to me at one time something like this: He says, "We knew what was going on, because one of the men with us is an operator, who stood outside of the window, and he could hear the instrument and could tell us what was going over the line." I think they had possession of the telegraph line, and a good many were operators.
Q. He told you they knew what was going on--that was between the authorities, &c., in reference to the matter; but did he say that they had any communication through the rioters themselves by telegraph?
A. No; I do not know that any one admitted anything of the kind. They were very careful in making any admissions. These men you will find, so far as the law was concerned, they really understood that as well as any other class of men, where they are liable and where they are not.
Q. The strikes at Fort Wayne and Chicago and Altoona and Philadelphia that you have mentioned, were not until after the strike here--were they?
A. I think it was almost simultaneous--it was very nearly the same time--on the Sunday following right along--immediately on the heels of it, and I should think it was all during two or three days.
Q. Do you know what days the strike was at its height in Chicago?
A. No.
Q. Nor Fort Wayne?
A. I have no recollection now of just when this was, for I took no note of that.
Q. Nor in Philadelphia?
A. Nor in Philadelphia. I think it was unfortunate that they attempted to start these trains out--these double-headers here on Saturday.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. Why?
A. Because there were so many men loose--the laboring men of our town--you may say that certainly four fifths of the laboring men were unemployed after twelve or one o'clock, and that is the best reason I could give you for it. If I was going to do anything to a crowd, I should have postponed it until these men were at work. I think it was unfortunate, because, as I stated before, we all knew of the existence of these organizations, and we knew that these men that were in these organizations were all in sympathy, the one with the other.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was the fact that there would be so large a number of unemployed men on Saturday afternoon, known to the railroad officers?
A. I do not know that of my own knowledge. Mr. James Park, I think, told me that he had remonstrated with some of the railroad officials--I think he had spoken to Mr. Cassatt on the subject.
Q. Did you have any conversation?
A. I had no conversation on the subject, because I was engaged and busy on Saturday, and was not alarmed in regard to this. Mr. Park's manufacturing establishment was in the immediate vicinity of the trouble, and you might say he was in it. He was located right in it, and he was there, and I think what I say in regard to that, will be the testimony of every manufacturer in the city. I believe if the thing had been left until Monday or Tuesday, that the probabilities are that men would be generally about their employment at one thing or another, that there might have been no burning here at all. We might have had trouble and loss of life, and things of that kind. Why I say I think there was an organization, when I went home on Saturday night, coming up after dark, they were expecting this train in. These men certainly knew that train was coming with soldiers, and they were prepared to meet them. They were orderly--a quarter of a mile below, at the bridge--there appeared to be entirely too much order for a riot. When there is a riot, they generally do things up very quickly, without regard to who is in the way. These men were orderly and systematic.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This train you speak of--was that train from Erie?
A. I think that was the Erie train. Mr. McCullough told me he expected that train in. I was informed that they had no ammunition or anything of that kind.
Q. These men you conversed with gave as a reason for their strike that the wages were so low they could not live?
A. That was the general complaint.
Q. Do you know what they were actually getting?
A. I did know, and I had it from the railroad officials--I had it from them, but I have forgotten what it was.
Q. Were any of them getting less than a dollar a day--trainmen?
A. I think they were paid by the trip, but I do not recollect that any of them were getting less than that. I would not speak positively in regard to that. It may be possible. I have a memorandum of that in my pocket-book. I never expected to be called before a committee, or I would have saved some of these things that I had. It may be I have something here that will enable me to answer that question.
Q. If you find it hereafter you can send it to us, and we can attach it to your testimony.
A. It was a copy of a telegraph--you asked me a question; it would have answered it. It was a copy of a telegraph I had sent to Mr. McCullough on the subject, and his reply to it, but I think that, supposing that the thing was ended, my impression is that I have destroyed it.
Q. Have you anything else to communicate, Mr. Bennett?
A. Nothing; but I would bear testimony to the fact that the citizens of Pittsburgh appeared to be anxious to do everything they could to put down this riot, and there was no sympathy with the rioters--none whatever.
Q. You had a good deal to do in raising the force of citizens to put down the riot?
A. I had, perhaps. The first move, I told you, was on Sunday. A good many of my most intimate acquaintances were among the rolling mills, and quite a large number of them were out of the city. I sent for Mr. Park.
Q. Did you meet with any opposition in your efforts to raise the men?
A. Not a single instance. Upon the contrary, every man I saw was anxious to do anything, and were willing and did go up there at the risk of their lives, to do everything they could do, and no man I met anywhere at all, among my own acquaintances, but what were ready to do anything they would deem in reason, to try to stop it; and I think it was stopped by the citizens at last. I was not present, but from what I heard afterwards, the citizens prevented the burning of the Fort Wayne depot.
Q. Was there any move by the citizens prior to Sunday morning?
A. Not that I know of. I have no knowledge of any--no recollection of any now. It was early Sunday morning that they set fire to things in the first place, and the citizens appeared to be completely paralyzed. I saw men coming along, carrying provisions, bacon, hams, and articles that they had taken from the cars they had broken open--carrying them away back two or three miles into the country, and I saw them walking along the streets, and it appeared to me that people were afraid to say a word to them. They were alarmed--they did not know what to make of it. It appeared to come upon them like a clap of thunder--they were unprepared for it in any way. I never saw men labor more earnestly, and labor harder to try to do their whole duty than that citizens' committee did. It was through their individual efforts that there was an additional police, and it was by private subscription to pay these men, that they were put upon the force. Our city was in a helpless condition, and these bad men, of which we have a large number around the city--they knew exactly what the police force was, better than we did.
Q. Did you know the police force had been reduced in the city, and, if so, when were you informed of that fact?
A. I had no knowledge that our city was in so helpless a condition. I was amazed when I heard it.
Q. Was it known to the business men--I mean generally--that your city was in such a condition, in regard to the police force?
A. I do not think they generally understood the matter. They might have been under the impression that there was a reduction of police, but so few----
Q. Was it the subject of conversation when it became known?
A. Of course it was, and the very moment it was discovered, they sought to apply the remedy by making contributions of money themselves, to have the force put on, and agreeing to pay for it.
Q. Did you have any talk with the mayor yourself in relation to that subject?
A. 1 did, at his office. He told me then that he had no power to do anything, but expressed a willingness and a desire to do anything he could, and I do not think that any suggestion I made to him, he ever refused to do anything it was in his power to do.
Q. What day was that?
A. I had a conversation with him on Sunday, and again on Monday, and as I met him at different times, I would have a talk with the mayor.
Q. Was it known to you that the mayor had full authority and control over the police, to increase the number of police, or to call out--was it known to you that he had the same authority that the sheriff had in calling out the police?
A. No, sir; it was not.
Q. Did he make any proclamation calling for police?
A. He made some proclamation. I cannot tell you what it was--do not recollect what it was.
Q. Did you ever examine to see what powers are given to the mayor by your city charter?
A. I did not in regard to Allegheny City. After Sunday, I was more with Mayor Phillips, and more on that side than I was on this. I believe Colonel Scott telegraphed to me himself, and said that they would commence laying the tracks, if their men would be protected, and I went to Mr. Shinn and got him to send an answer to him that they would be, and I would lay the matter before the committee the next morning. Immediately on the committee convening, I brought the matter before them, and the committee answered Colonel Scott that they would be protected. I went out of the committee myself, and started up to meet Mr. Pitcairn at the office of Mr. Layng, and stated to Mr. Layng in regard to that telegram, and my own impression that they should put the men on to work to feel their way, and if they were interfered with to withdraw them, that I believed that before night would come that they would have more men than they would know what to do with, and that was the result. I spoke of being out on Sunday and not seeing any of the officials of the railroad at all. I think they did right. I do not think it would have been prudent for them to be there. I advised those I knew to keep away. You could not tell to what extent this excitement would lead a man, nor you could not tell how bad men were. They might have been seriously injured, if not killed, if any one of them had gone into a crowd of that kind.
Q. Would the presence of the railroad officials have tended to exasperate the crowd, do you think?
A. Yes, sir. I don't think it would have been safe for them to have been there. I think it would have exasperated them.
Q. Where was Adjutant Latta during the day--Sunday?
A. I think he was at the Monongahela house, with Cassatt--I think he was there.
Q. Until what hour?
A. I was introduced to him when I took Mr. Cassatt across to Allegheny City. It must have been between eleven and twelve o'clock. I left him there, and I was not back to the Monongahela house after that. I learned they had gone down the river to Beaver. I think General Latta was along. There was a number of gentlemen there. Mr. Cassatt was anxious in regard to the soldiers that they had. I did not know the condition of them, nor did he--how these men that had come from Philadelphia were. He appeared to be under the impression that they had got out, and had neither provision nor ammunition, and I said that I could fix a way that they could have the supplies--that there were parties in Allegheny who would attend to that. I went down on Monday to Mr. Ray, and he sent them out provisions, and told me afterwards that they had removed their head-quarters, and he had followed them up to Blairsville, and had delivered them cooked provisions.
Q. Who is Mr. Ray?
A. He is a grocer on Liberty street.
Q. In Allegheny City?
A. No, sir; Pittsburgh.
Q. Would it have been prudent for the Adjutant General to have remained in the city during the day, Sunday?
A. To have gone into the crowd?
Q. Yes; or remained in the city?
A. I do not think there would have been a hair of his head harmed.
Q. Would it have been prudent for the other State officials?
A. If they had remained at the Monongahela house they would not have been disturbed.
Q. If the Adjutant General had gone to the scene of the riot, would he have been disturbed?
A. I think there would have been danger. Any man went in at the peril of his life--any officer went in single-handed, alone.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You have a very extensive knowledge of what transpired here during the riots. I want to know whether, in your opinion, there was a disposition on the part of the city and county authorities to protect property and to suppress the riot. If so, could they have done so?
A. I have not any doubt in my own mind, but the----
Q. Not the citizens. I am speaking of the city and county officials?
A. In regard to the county officials, I was not with them. So far as my knowledge goes, I was acquainted, at the time, from talking as I would with Mr. Barr, or Slagle, or any of the gentlemen, and I believe they were all anxious to try to prevent any loss of life or property, and do all that was in their power.
Q. And could they have done so, if they had made a vigorous effort to do so--protect the property and prevent the lawlessness?
A. After the riot got started they could not have done it. If we had the full force we would have only had about two hundred policemen, and they would not have been able to have done very much, and the sheriff could not have done very much by calling upon the people and telling them that he wanted them to stop. Nothing but imperiling their lives. They would keep away from him. I do not think he had much chance of doing anything.
Q. It is only a matter of opinion?
A. You could readily understand that those men, with the force that they could command, would be small in comparison. After the firing I have no doubt the report that there was ten or twenty killed, where there was one, did create a fearful excitement, and I do not think any sheriff of any county could have done anything at all that would have stopped it, after it had once got started as it had on Sunday morning.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Did you take any active steps prior to Saturday evening?
A. No, sir; I did not really feel very uneasy about the matter until Saturday afternoon, when I learned--I was not taking much interest in the matter, and I got very much this way--the railroad people, this was a matter they were tending to, but that there was going to be any riot--there might be some quarreling, fighting, or something of that kind, but I didn't expect there was going to be anything of the magnitude it was. On Saturday, I felt concerned about the matter, and the reason for being concerned was, that I knew that the manufacturing establishments were idle, and the men were off work, and that they were there, and if you have had anything to do with iron men, you know they are a class of men who are easily excited.
Q. You, as a business man, would have closed up all business at that time, under this state of excitement?
A. As a business man, when I found it was necessary to get the military in there, I would not have undertaken to have done that on Saturday afternoon. I would have waited until the men were employed on Monday, or Tuesday, and then there would not be the danger that there was in doing it on Saturday.
Q. The majority of men being off, of course there was great travel on the streets?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You felt satisfied and easy that there would not be any disturbance up to Saturday--why did you feel easy and satisfied that there would be no trouble up to Saturday?
A. I understood that the military were here, and that would intimidate them. I was tending to my own business, and really. I had not gone out at all to see what was going on on the railroad, although we have a mill opposite, within a mile, perhaps, of the outer depot, across the river, and I came back and forward and everything was quiet; but when I heard of the loss of life and of the firing, which, I think took place on Saturday, and the men coming across and going into the gun shops in the town, breaking them open and destroying them, then I felt that there was danger, because there is this fact: there is a large number of men that were through the war that are not afraid as those who have never smelled powder--they are not very much afraid of it, and they are brave men, and if you understood that there is danger, they say "we know," and you cannot do anything with them. The idea was this: The first I heard of it that they had shot into a crowd, killing men, women, and children indiscriminately. These men are men who are ready to believe anything of the kind, and they will believe what is said among themselves quicker than they would from you or me or anybody else on the outside. They were excited and exasperated, and then you cannot control them, but the men about our mills are not bad men, all of them. We have bad men there and they will get into the mills, but I do not think there is a better class of men anywhere than in Pittsburgh. My own theory is, that these tramps along the line of the railroad had a knowledge of this strike, and might have been congregating in here for two weeks, and these men are always ready to apply the torch at any moment. They came in here and got into it. I think a great many of the railroad men had nothing to do, and had no idea whatever of getting anything but their wages--no idea of any loss of life or destruction of property; but when they got in there they had no control of this thing, and they did not know themselves whether the men that had been in the lodge room, perhaps, were with them or against them. The people were paralyzed at the magnitude of this thing.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You have a general acquaintance and knowledge of the manufacturing interests of this State. Is there a larger proportion of employés in the manufactories and mining in this vicinity than there is elsewhere in this State?
A. I think there is; I am not familiar with any place where the proportion is so large as it is just here in our city.
* * * * *
J. Howard Logan being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you live?
A. Lincoln avenue, Allegheny.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. 1 have a foundry in New Brighton. Doing business in Pittsburgh.
Q. State whether you were with Doctor Donnelly on Sunday, the 22d of July?
A. I went to the meeting at the old city hall, in Market street, four o'clock, Sunday afternoon, and joined the citizens' organization to go up and stop the riot and firing. We had great trouble getting arms. At first we went to the university, and failed to get them there. Then went down and got pick-handles from a hardware store on Wood street. After that we were marched up to the university again, but failed to get them, and from there we went to one of the armories of the Fourteenth regiment or Nineteenth, and failed to get any arms there. We marched back again to the university, and we got some old rusty muskets, with bayonets. There were plenty of men willing to go; but being marched around from one place to another they dropped off. We got these old muskets, and had about a hundred. We marched down to the mayor's office, and from there we went up Liberty street to Wood, right into the midst of the crowd, and attempted to form a line right across Liberty street, at the edge of the crowd; but we were surrounded, individually, and failed to do that. Doctor Donnelly, who was leading, seemed to have lost control of the men, and seemed to be very much excited. We stayed there about ten minutes without accomplishing anything, except having pistols at our heads all around, and nothing to defend ourselves with but these rusty muskets.
Q. Without any ammunition?
A. Without any ammunition or anything else. Probably one or two of the party, or a few of them, had revolvers, but the majority of us had not.
Q. What did you do then?
A. We got started, and about half of the company went out, and the balance of us turned around and came out then, feeling that we were whipped.
Q. Then you had not the means to cope--arms or weapons to cope with the crowd?
A. No, sir. There were a number lost their muskets in wrestling with the crowd, but they were willing to fight or do anything to hold on to them, but we were powerless because we had nothing to defend ourselves with.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were the muskets wrenched from their hands?
A. In some cases they were.
Q. Did your men fight them, or use the bayonet?
A. Didn't use the bayonets. We held on to them, and pulled them away. It was very fortunate for us that there were no pistol shots fired, or we would all have been cut to pieces, because all the crowd were armed, and we were not.
Q. If you had had a bold, deliberate leader, and been well armed, could you have accomplished anything in the way of driving away the crowd?
A. We might have done something just at that place, but we did not have more than enough to protect that one spot which we were at.
Q. Where was that?
A. That was on Liberty street, just in front of the elevator.
Q. In front of the elevator?
A. Yes; down from the elevator.
Q. What time was it?
A. About six o'clock.
Q. Sunday evening?
A. Between five and six.
Q. Was there any trouble in raising a company of citizens at that time?
A. No, sir; there were more than we had arms for--more ready to go than we could get muskets for, and some, when we could get these imperfect muskets, were afraid to go into the crowd with them. When we came down from there we deposited what arms we had in the mayor's office, in charge of a policeman there, and some of them scattered and went to the depot--the Duquesne depot--and others to the depots or upon the street, individually.
Q. What did you do Sunday night yourself?
A. I went over to Allegheny; found the citizens were organizing there and about starting out to guard the bridges. I went with a party to the railroad bridge and was there that night. I had a revolver with me then.
Q. The railroad bridge?
A. The railroad bridge across the Allegheny river at the Fort Wayne road.
Q. Was that well guarded by citizens?
A. There was about fifteen or twenty, armed with muskets and revolvers.
Q. What class of citizens?
A. There were several policemen and some officers and men from Allegheny.
Q. Were you molested during the night?
A. No, sir; the orders were from the mayor to stop every person coming over that bridge, and let no one pass. We turned a great many men coming over there--we turned them back, and made them go around to the other bridges.
Q. Allowed nobody to pass?
A. Allowed no person except a few whom the policemen recognized as living right near there, and were respectable people. Any person we didn't know we made them go back.
* * * * *
James I. Bennett, being recalled, testified as follows:
The Witness. Our city is surrounded by large mining interests, in which thousands of men are engaged, and they come in on the trains Saturday to do their marketing and other trading. When we learned of all this thing--of what was going on Sunday--they came in a distance of four or five or six miles, and perhaps there might have been thousands of these men that came in on Sunday and on Monday. The works were nearly all stopped, and these men were flowing in here in any number, and I think only for the organization that the citizens had themselves perfected on Monday, that I do not know what the consequences might have been later in the week, but they saw that there was a preparation to meet them, and the thing was stopped.
At this point the committee adjourned until to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.
PITTSBURGH, Thursday, February 21, 1878.
The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M., Mr. Lindsey in the chair, and continued the taking of testimony.
All members present except Senator Reyburn.
* * * * *
John H. Webster, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Twenty-fourth ward, south side.
Q. What is your business?
A. Machinist.
Q. What firm are you at work for--Jones & Laughlin?
A. American Iron Works.
Q. Were you at work for them last July?
A. I have worked for them for over twelve years.
Q. Were you at the scene of the riots, near the Union depot, on Saturday?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you on Saturday night?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you on Sunday?
A. I was on a hill immediately above.
Q. On Sunday?
A. Yes; got there about ten o'clock. I suppose it was somewhere in the neighborhood of ten o'clock.
Q. That was your first appearance in the vicinity of the riots?
A. First appearance.
Q. How large a crowd was there, when you got there Sunday?
A. There was an immense crowd.
Q. Of what class of people was the crowd composed principally?
A. All classes.
Q. Were there railroad employés there?
A. I couldn't say whether there was or not.
Q. Were there mill men and factory men and employés in the shops about Pittsburgh there?
A. Not that I seen of upon the hill where I was. I don't know what was done on the track, I was away up top of the hill.
Q. How long did you remain up at the top of the hill?
A. I followed the firing down until the Union depot got fired, then it got too warm for me, and I came away.
Q. Were you down near the track when you followed the firing along?
A. I was up on the hill.
Q. Were you near the elevator?
A. Coming down I passed the elevator, and got on Liberty street, and the crowd made a rush, and came near knocking me down. I got down near the corner of Penn street and stayed there, and watched the Union depot burn.
Q. Did you have any conversation with those that were engaged in burning?
A. When I first made my way on the upper part of the hill, there was a number of young men lying on the ground under a fence, a tree, or something, and I asked one of them--he appeared to be lively, he was lying, kicking, and looked as though he was hard at work. Says I, "When is this thing going to stop?" Says he, "At the elevator." Says I, "You ain't gone that far." Says he, "Yes, that has got to come down, too;" and I left him, after talking a few minutes about that.
Q. Who was he?
A. I don't know who he was.
Q. Strangers?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you go?
A. I went on from there down to look at the firing, and see all that could be seen.
Q. When you arrived at the elevator, did you have any conversation with anybody there?
A. Oh, yes; had a conversation with almost everybody--talking to each other.
Q. Did you say that the elevator was going to be burned?
A. I told several parties what this party had told me on the hill, that he allowed it would come to the elevator, and I began to think there was a good deal of truth in it, because the Union depot was on fire.
Q. Did you see Daniel Corbus near the elevator?
A. I met him at the corner of Fifth and Fulton streets, and we walked down together. I told him what these parties had told me--they were going to burn down the elevator, that was a damn monopoly, too.
Q. Did you say to Daniel Corbus that the elevator had got to be burned--that it was a monopoly, and had got to be burned?
A. I didn't tell him that, because I was taking no active part in it.
Q. Did you tell him that the other party said it was a damn monopoly, and had got to come down.
A. Yes, sir. The railroad officials had stock in it, and they were death on railroads.
Q. You had no participation at all in what was going on?
A. No, sir; just went over to see the fire, and to see what was going on.
Q. How many were with this fellow that made this remark to you?
A. There was some four or five of them laying there, I think.
Q. Was this fellow intoxicated, did you think?
A. He appeared to be perfectly sober.
Q. What for a dressed man was he? How was he dressed?
A. From the appearance of him--he was not dressed any better than I am just at the present time--dirty.
Q. Did his dress indicate a railroad employé or a factory man?
A. I couldn't judge that from his dress. Couldn't say what he was by that--by his dress.
Q. He was dressed like a laboring man?
A. Yes; he was dressed like a workingman.
Q. What time did you leave the depot or elevator?
A. I left when I was standing on Liberty street. I left the time the Union depot fell.
Q. About what time in the afternoon was that?
A. Somewhere very near six o'clock.
Q. Did you go back again?
A. No, sir; stayed home all night. I overheard a couple of gentlemen saying that a committee had been talking to the crowd, and gotten the promise not to burn the elevator. I thought the firing had stopped there.
* * * * *
Irvin K. Campbell, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Ninth ward, Allegheny City.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am a foreman of the hinge factory of Lewis, Oliver & Philips.
Q. How long have you occupied that position?
A. About three years--possibly four. Between three and four.
Q. Were you near the scene of the riots any time during July last, in any of the days and nights?
A. I heard of the firing on the citizens about six o'clock, and I came up on what we call the Cleveland train, and got to Twenty-eighth street, probably at eight o'clock.
Q. What was?
A. That was on Saturday evening--the evening after the firing.
Q. Twenty-eighth street? What time?
A. It was probably half past eight o'clock.
Q. When you got there how much of a crowd did you find there?
A. There was not much of a crowd when I was there. The troops had gone into the round-house, and I inquired why they went in, and received no satisfactory answer. I supposed I was acquainted with some of the troops that went in, and inquired for Colonel Howard, of the Nineteenth. I was acquainted with Mr. Howard, and served in the same regiment in the army, and talked of going in and advising Colonel Howard to get out of the round-house, and was advised not to go in; that the men were scared enough to shoot any man.
Q. Who advised you this?
A. Alderman Conlan, of the Ninth ward, said they were scared bad enough to shoot any man. I came out--I just stepped--probably had one foot inside of the fence where you go into the round-house track--going into the round-house at Twenty-eighth street. I went down Liberty street, and there was two shots fired. I was with a gentleman named Joseph Steen, son-in-law of Mr. Bown's, on Third street. I spoke then and said something about firing out there when there was no occasion for it. I don't mind what my conversation was, but kept on down the street, and heard no more firing until I got down a little ways, and I heard several rambling shots fired. At this time there was no organization, or any crowd to amount to anything. I had been up to the hospital in the meantime to see if there was anybody hurt that I knew. I formerly worked for the railroad company there, and was a little interested to see if there was anybody killed or wounded that I was acquainted with.
Q. Where were those shots fired from?
A. They were fired from one of the windows of what we call the round-house for passenger engines--the round-house this way. You might call it the Twenty-eighth street round-house.
Q. Were there any soldiers there?
A. I presume there was. I couldn't see from the outside.
Q. You didn't know whether they were soldiers or part of the mob?
A. I knew there were none of the mob in there at that time. They were soldiers I knew, but I did not see them.
Q. Was there any burning going on at that time?
A. No burning at that time. 1 think after I came from there down the street I heard burning talked of; and, if I recollect right, I heard it intimated before I left Twenty-eighth street. I think that was my reason for wishing to see Colonel Howard, to advise these men to come out.
Q. By whom did you hear it talked of?
A. I couldn't tell. Although I formerly worked on the railroad, I didn't see a man there that I was acquainted with.
Q. Was it the rioters that were talking about the burning?
A. At that time you couldn't tell who was rioters. They stood around in crowds of four, or five, or a dozen. The only active rioters I noticed was when the way passenger came in I seen probably five or six men that looked liked brakesmen on the road run up to uncouple the engines, and the engineer, Tom Wilson, told them that the car behind him had one horse in, and asked them to let him take it on through--there was no ammunition, or provision, or anything of that kind. I listened to some of the arguments whether they would side-track the freight car or allow it to go through, and they finally told Wilson to back and they took the train into the Union depot.
Q. Mow long did you remain there?
A. I was in the vicinity of the crossing probably ten minutes--not long. The train moved down, and I started to go towards my home.
Q. What time did you get home?
A. I came down Penn street with this Mr. Steen, son-in-law of Mr. Bown's, and we heard of the trouble at Mr. Bown's hardware store, and we stopped there for a few minutes--we stopped there probably three quarters of an hour. I don't recollect, positively, how long, but when I left there I got over in Allegheny, and in time to make the late train, and got down to the Ninth ward. The train, at that time, left Allegheny sometime after eleven o'clock.
Q. When you got to Bown's store, had the rabble been in and ransacked things?
A. They had been in and ransacked things and had gone off. They had apparently taken things that were of no account at all, so far as the riot was concerned.
Q. Were there any rioters still around the store?
A. No rioters at all. The police were standing in front of the store and refused to let us in, and I explained that Mr. Steen was son-in-law of Mr. Bown's and wanted to see if the family was hurt.
Q. Did you see any police up at the crossing near the scene of the riots?
A. Not on Saturday afternoon.
Q. How many came up on the train from the Ninth ward of Allegheny City with you?
A. There was quite a number. The word came down that there had been firing up there, and parties killed and wounded--I could not tell positively how many I came up with--two parties with me.
Q. Did any of the men from your works come up?
A. Not that I know of--there was none came up with me.
Q. Were there any of the men at these works that came up and remained and participated, to your knowledge?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Are you well acquainted with the laboring men about the city?
A. I am in the neighborhood in which I reside.
Q. Did you see any that you knew in that vicinity?
A. Not one--didn't see a man taking an active part in the riot that I knew. I was pretty well acquainted with both sides, and I thought that there was something strange about that--men that were supposed to be easy led by excitement of the kind--and I rather wondered at it. The only man I noticed making any resistance, was one man who said he was a son of a bitch from Brownstone.
Q. That is in the vicinity of the iron works?
A. On the south side. That was on Sunday, near the elevator.
Q. He was near the elevator?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was engaged in the riot?
A. He said he had been at it all night and all day, and was nearly done out, and at the time I seen him he had a keg--I forget whether it was wine or beer, but he was very liberal with it, giving it to any parties that wanted it, urging them to turn in and help, that he was tired.
Q. What time did you return on Sunday to the scene of the riot?
A. It might have been half past eight or nine. We could see the smoke from down where I lived. That was the first I knew of the burning, when I got up next morning, and came up to see what was burning. I got to Twentieth street about the time, or just before the police made their appearance there to stop the burning of cars.
Q. How far had the fire progressed towards the depot when you got there?
A. I am not positive the street, exactly, but it was in the neighborhood of Twentieth street.
Q. Was there any effort made by the police or any other parties to stop it there?