Mornings among the Jesuits at Rome. Being notes of conversations held with certain Jesuits on the subject of religion in the city of Rome

Contents

Introduction . Page 5

Chapter I

An Ordination — A Visit of the Jesuits — Explanation of my Views — The Laying on of Hands — The Priestly Power of Absolution and of Sacrifice — The Religious Movement at Oxford — The Religious Movement in Germany — The Nature of the Absolving Power — Whether Judicial or Declaratory — The Opinions of the two Churches compared 12

Chapter II

The Grossness of some Superstitions — Whether sanctioned by the Church of Rome — Contrast between the Religion of the English and the Italians — The Virtue of miraculous Pictures — The Reality of their Miracles asserted and explained — A Convert in a Nunnery — Parallel between Eve and Mary— The Religion of Christ becoming the Religion of Mary — The Nature of this Process explained — Mary more Merciful than Christ a*, 35

Chapter III

A Visit from a Convert to Romanism — Argument drawn from his Experience of Happiness — Motive to rest entirely on the Infallibility of the Church— The Infallible Tribunal among Protestants contrasted with that among Romanists — Arguments for Infallibility — The Scriptures — Tradition — The Fathers. » 61

Chapter IV

The Death of a Convert — Administration of five Sacraments— Prayer through Mary heard sooner than through Christ — Argument from Experience— The Madonna of the Augustinians — The Means by which Saints hear Prayers — God a Mediator to the Saints — Opinions of St. Chrysostom— The Influence of the Worship of Mary— Mary more Compassionate than Christ 96

IV CONTENTS.

Chapter V

Invitation to a Polemical Discussion — The Prohibition of the Scriptures for Sale at Rome — Universal Ignorance of the Sacred Volume— Salvation only in the Church of Rome — Infallibility of the Popes necessary to be believed — Whether there be Salvation in the Church of England — The Church of Rome has never claimed Infallibility . . Page 124

Chapter VI

Conversation with the Professor of Canon Law — The Fete at the Jesuits' Church, closing the Year — The Question of Infallibility residing in a Council or in a Pope — Seven Signs or Tests by which to discern when the Pope is Infallible and when Fallible — The alleged Unsuitableness of the Scriptures as a Rule of Faith — The same Argument applied to the Papal Decisions 145

Chapter VII

Opinions entertained at Rome respecting the Movement in the Anglican Church — The Bishop of Exeter and others at Oxford — Caution against Romans intermeddling with the Church of England — Separation of the Temporal from the Spiritual Power of the Popes — Argument derived from the Success of the Missions of the Church of Rome — An Indian Tribe converted — Their holy Lives — Wonderful Miracle — Credulity prevalent at Rome — Inconsistency between two Doctrines of that Church — Transubstantiation and the Mass — The Immaculate Conception — Human Merit — Indulgences 172

Chapter VIII

The Origin of the Catacombs — The Christians using them as a Refuge — As a Place of Worship — As a Burial-place — Forgotten and afterward discovered — Resorted to for Relics — A Visit to them — Description of their present State — Means or Tests for the Discovery of Relics — Collection of monumental Inscriptions found in the Catacombs — Their Character and Nature — A Conversation in the College of the Jesuits respecting them — Conclusion as to. the Religion of the Primitive Church 202

Introduction

In committing the following pages to the press, it is felt that some few words of introduction are required, to account for their origin and to explain their nature.

Having visited Rome, not only to gratify and indulge my taste for the arts among the most exquisite sculptures and the most beautiful pictures, the greatest miracles of art in the world — having visited that city not only that I might look at the ruins — the glorious ruins, of the temples, and baths, and palaces of the conquerors of the world, and to wander among those scenes where lived and walked the heroes of the past, but also and chiefly that I might see and study the true genius of the Church of Rome, and judge for myself as to her nature and character, I felt it to be my duty to avail myself of every means in my power to obtain information on the subject.

Two sources of information immediately presented themselves. One was derived from my own means and opportunities for personal observation : I therefore carefully attended all the various services of the Church ; was a watchful observer at every procession ; attended every exhibition of relics; was at every

6 INTRODUCTION.

church on all unusual ceremonials ; attended every place at which the pope or the cardinals were expected ; took my place at every ordination, at every funeral of cardinals or bishops, at every reception into a nunnery, at the celebration of every festival — in short, at every thing that could give opportunity for judging of the true nature and character of the system, as exhibited in its outward manifestation of services, ceremonials, and festivals ; and I am bound to acknowledge the debt of gratitude which I owe to some members of the Society of Jesuits, and to some lay gentlemen of Rome, for the extreme kindness and courtesy with which they facilitated the prosecution of my object, securing to me access to places where otherwise I could not have been admitted. The results of my observations thus made have already been published in my account of "A Pilgrimage to Rome." The second source of information was not so dependent upon myself, but was opened to me by circumstances as unexpected as they were gratifying. I allude to the opportunity of close intercourse with the members of the priesthood, by which I might learn their opinions and feelings, and receive their explanations of all that was passing around me. It arose from the following circumstance. During my constant attendance at all the services of the Church of Rome, I was observed by a Roman gentleman who held office in the papal court ; and, being acquainted with him, he remarked one day to my wife that I seemed much interested in these things, and asked whether I would not like to make the acquaintance of some of the clergy. Having learned from her my wishes to that effect, he called some

INTRODUCTION. 7

days after to say he had been with his personal friend the Padre-Generale — the Father-General of the Jesuits, and had mentioned to him my wish to enter into communication with the clergy, and he seemed to intimate that this was sure to convert me to the Church of Rome. He added that the father-general had directed two members of the order to wait on me, to give me any information which I might desire. These gentlemen came in due course. They soon presented me to others. They introduced me to the professors of their establishment, the Collegio Romano, and thus a series of conversations or conferences on the subject of the points at issue between the Churches of England and Rome commenced and were carried on, as occasion offered, during the whole period of my residence at Rome. A portion of my notes of these conversations constitutes this present volume of " Mornings

AMONG THE JESUITS AT ROME."

I dealt with all frankness with these several gentlemen as to the object of their visit. They were under the impression, which they were at no pains to conceal, that I was disposed favorably toward their Church ; that I was one of those Anglican clergymen who neither understand nor love the Church of England, and who, in a restless dissatisfaction and love of change, are prepared to abandon her communion for that of Rome, and who only wait a little encouragement, and perhaps instruction, before taking the last step. I was very careful to undeceive them, stating that I should be most happy to confer with them on the differences between the two churches, but that I could not do so under a false color ; that I was devotedly

8 INTRODUCTION.

attached in judgment and in feeling to the Church of England ; that I looked on her as the Church of God in England, and the most pure, most apostolic, most scriptural of all the churches of Christendom ; that, without unchurching other churches, she was still the church of my judgment and of my affections ; and that I had never for a moment harbored the thought of abandoning her for any other church, and especially for the Church of Rome.

My new friends, for such their subsequent conduct proved them to be, seemed surprised at the decision of my opinions, and expressed their wonder that I could refuse to hold communion with the Church of Rome.

I stated that I felt very strong objections, as they appeared to me, against that Church ; but that, if those objections were removed — if they, who were priests of the Church of Rome, could remove them — if they, living at the fountain-head of that Church, could prove them futile, in that case they should find me free to act, and prepared to act on my enlightened convictions, and I would, without hesitation, join their communion.

They generally asked me to state my objections, as they felt assured that they would be able to remove them.

This invitation led to a series of conferences or conversations with some of these gentlemen. We ranged through a very large portion of the entire field of controversy between the Churches of England and Rome, and much was elicited that was perfectly new to me — new, chiefly as indicative of the opinions and feelings of the enlightened and learned members of the

INTRODUCTION. 9

priesthood ; and I was sometimes startled at the opinions expressed and the feelings avowed, as exhibiting a phase of mind and feeling which has heretofore seemed to me incompatible with enlightenment and education. I have learned, and must bear about me forever the memory of the lesson, never again to regard the extremities of credulity as inconsistent with the most scientific attainments, or to suppose that what seems the most absurd and marvelous superstition is incompatible with the highest education, or to think that the utmost prostration of the mind is inconsistent with the loftiest range of intellectual power. There was in some of my friends an extraordinary amount of scientific attainments, of classical erudition, of polite literature, and of great intellectual acumen ; but all seemed subdued and held, as by an adamantine grasp, in everlasting subjection to what seemed to them to be the religious principle. This principle, which regarded the voice of the Church of Rome as the voice of God himself, was ever uppermost in the mind, and held such an influence and a mastery over the whole intellectual powers, over the whole rational being, that it bowed in the humility of a child before every thing that came with even the apparent authority of the Church. I never could have believed the extent of this, if I had not witnessed it in these remarkable instances. They seemed to regard the canons of the Church precisely as we regard the decisions of Scripture ; and just as we regard any unbelief of the statements of Holy Scripture as infidelity, so they regard every doubt as to the judgment of the Church as the worst infidelity. It seemed

A 2

JO INTRODUCTION.

as if a doubt of it never cast its shadow across their minds.

But my friends argued in these conferences at a considerable disadvantage. They imagined that I was unacquainted with the controversy between the churches ; that I was disposed in my principles and views to join the Church of Rome ; that I was already convinced that I ought to join her communion ; and that my objections were only a sort of make-believe. They imagined that I entered on these conferences in an easy, free, unprepared state, and without any view to controversy ; and they therefore were induced to express themselves more freely and openly, less guardedly than perhaps they otherwise would have done. This placed them in some respects at a disadvantage, which I am bound in candor to acknowledge, and one that was particularly serviceable to me, as calculated to secure to me the more free expression of their real sentiments and feelings. But, at the same time, it was not without its disadvantages to myself. I dared not distinctly assume the position of a Protestant controversialist, as it would, in the first place, have led to their immediate withdrawal from all communication with me, and in the next place, in case I exhibited any thing like a proselyting spirit, there was every probability my passports would be sent to me, with orders from the police to withdraw from Rome. This necessitated great caution on my part, and obliged me to hold back many things that I might otherwise have urged, and in all faithfulness should have urged ; and it obliged me to confine myself to one object, namely, the obtaining information as to the sen-

INTRODUCTION. H

timents and feelings of the priests at Rome. If I could draw them out ; if I could elicit their real mind ; if I could ascertain the real nature of their religion, and their mode of argument as developed in free and familiar conversation ; if I could occasionally advance an objection that might awaken a doubt, or suggest a new train of thought in their minds which might ultimately lead to better things, then I should have obtained all I could under the circumstances reasonably hope or expect to obtain. And thus we all labored, both they and myself, under certain disadvantages, and to this must be attributed, by the gentle and Christian reader, much of the peculiarities that characterize these conferences, and strip them of much of the point, and life, and spirit of antagonism which some persons might have expected.

In all these conversations I acted for the best, and to the best of my feeble judgment. If I have done wrong, either in my close examination of the services of the Roman Church, or in my mode of conducting these conversations, I have only to bow my head in meekness, and pray that He whom I desire to serve may pardon his servant.

I have now only to add, in reference to the accuracy of these notes, that they were always written on the very day on which each conversation was held. "While actually in conversation, I often made it a point to make a note of what they said, and my mode of doing so was not discourteous, but seemed at the time to be giving importance to their words, as if they appeared to me deserving of an accurate record. But on every occasion, without exception, the moment

J2 MORNINGS AMONG

they left me I immediately committed the whole to paper. The conversations, as now presented to the public, are very little else than an accurate transcript of some of my notes thus taken at the time.

Chapter I

An Ordination — A Visit of the Jesuits — Explanation of my Views — The Laying on of Hands — The priestly Power of Absolution and of Sacrifice — xhe Religious Movement at Oxford — The Religious Movement in Germany — The Nature of the Absolving Power — Whether Judicial or Declaratory — The Opinions of the two Churches compared.

The day was far advanced when the hour appointed for the visit of the Jesuits had arrived. The morning had been occupied by me in attendance at the great church, or Basilica of S. Giovanni di Laterano. It is the Senior Basilica of Rome, taking precedence even of St. Peter's itself. The object of my attendance there was to witness the form of ordination. Ninety-two young men were that morning ordained, admitted into the various orders of the Church of Rome. They are seven in number, and I was glad of the opportunity of witnessing the ceremonial; and certainly it was a deeply interesting sight ; for however I might dissent from the system of the Church, and however strongly I might feel at what might seem to be superstitious, or superfluous, or unscriptural, it yet could not fail of being a touching and beautiful sight, the self-devotion and vowed consecration of ninety-two men, in the flower and vigor of early manhood, to the service of God. As the several candidates for the various orders performed the prescribed ceremonials, according to the rules of the Pontifical ; as I held the Pontifical in my hand, and carefully followed every step in its performance ; as I saw some standing, some kneeling, and some prostrate with face on the earth ; as I observed some receiving one order and some another, in different yet regulated forms ; as I saw the laying on of hands, the tonsure, the giving the chalice, the unfolding the chasuble, the tying the hands, the anointing the fingers, the washing, the communion, I could not but feel that the formalities were very puerile, but I felt still more my heart stirring within me in prayer that the Holy Ghost might indeed descend from above, and make them faithful and fearless in preaching the everlasting gospel of Christ. It was the cardinal-vicar who conferred the orders.

I had returned home after this spectacle, and was looking over the Pontifical, examining a point which had much impressed me, when two visitors were announced. They were two Jesuits. They came in the peculiar costume of the order. One was a priest, and the other a lay-brother ; but, according to the rule of the order, as observed at Rome, they were robed alike, the whole body, from the padre-generale himself, to the lowliest lay-brother who is porter at the gate, being dressed in costume precisely the same. It consists of a black cassock, extending from the throat to the ankles, without any ornament beyond a little brass medal and chain appended to the waist. The cravat is white, but so narrow as to be scarcely observable above the cassock, and over all is a black cloak, neat, plain, and without sleeves. The hat is remarkable for the great breadth of its leaf. It is not red like those of the cardinals, nor white like those of the camaldolines, nor decorated with rosettes and bands of orange, green, &c, like those of the prelates, all which seem so strange to our English tastes. It is black, and turned up slightly at the sides, without any bow or other ornament. The costume, as a whole, is neat and seemly, and as elegant and becoming as any ecclesiastical or academic costume can be. It certainly surpasses in this particular the style and appearance of the other monastic or religious orders, for it bears the stamp of studied neatness and propriety, while that of some of the other orders is exquisitely grotesque and ridiculous.

In a few moments we all were as much at ease as the peculiar object and nature of the visit could permit. The interchange of mutual courtesies and some words upon general subjects soon led to the object of our meeting.

The reverend padre opened it by saying that he had been directed to wait on me in consequence of my desire for information as to some particulars in the Church of Rome ; that he was informed that I was an Anglican clergyman who was wishing to withdraw from the Church of England, and to hold communion with the Catholic Church ; and that he came to assist me, as far as lay in his power, in carrying out my desire. And he concluded by asking me, in an earnest manner and in an under voice, whether there was any thing particular which I wished to communicate.

I did not choose to notice this sotto voce communication, but I said at once that there must be some mistake ; that some one must have misinformed him ; for that I was an attached member of the Church of England ; that I had, as one of her clergy, held preferment in her, but had resigned my appointment ; that I was perfectly independent in my circumstances and my feelings ; that I had always been warmly opposed to the Church of Rome, as well as sincerely attached to the Church of England; and that I had now visited Rome with a desire to see and judge all things for myself, to change, modify, or confirm my former opinions, after a free and fair examination of every thing to which I might be so fortunate as to obtain access.

He stated at once, and with extreme courtesy, the pleasure he should feel in facilitating my object, and expressed his readiness to give me all the information in his power ; but that he did not see why I should be unwilling to join the communion of his Church, since it was allowed by all parties that there was a true Church at Rome, and that there was no other than one, and therefore he thought that, as an Anglican clergyman, I might not be unwilling to do as did some others, namely, while at Rome, join in the communion of that church.

I replied that, whether rightly or wrongly founded, I felt great and strong prejudices against the Church of Rome ; that all my feelings and experience were against her ; and that I felt so many objections and difficulties against communicating with her, that there was much to be answered and removed before I could give him any hope of my joining her ; but that I was fully prepared to hear all that might be said in her defense, and that I believed myself sufficiently open to conviction, and sufficiently candid to acknowledge it, if convinced, and sufficiently fearless to act on it.

He questioned me as to the nature of my difficulties, and suggested naturally to me that I should state my objections, that he might have the opportunity of removing them.

I could not but acquiesce in this. It was precisely the position in which I desired to be placed. But I felt that my commencement must be with extreme caution, lest I should awaken suspicion and elicit actual opposition. I wished to be an inquirer rather than a controvertist ; and I was led to begin with a point that exactly suited my object with a man who imagined me to be one of those who, under the name of Anglican clergy, have all their ideas and feelings, all their minds and hearts with the Roman Church. The Roman Pontifical was in my hands at the moment,

I told him that I had attended at the ordination that morning at S. Giovanni di Laterano ; that I had observed what was to my mind a most remarkable omission, namely, the omission of the " laying on of hands" as the act of ordination ; that, although there was at an early part of the ceremonial a laying on of hands, yet it was only for the purpose of designation, and not of ordination ; as designating the person to be afterward ordained, and not as the act of ordination itself ; that the candidates for orders were called ordinandi even after laying on of hands, showing that they were not regarded as ordained by that act, but

THE JESUITS AT HOME. 17

only set apart to be afterward ordained, and that they were not called ordinati until the chalice was given to them, with the words " accipe potestatcm" &c, " receive power to offer the sacrifice of the mass for the living and the dead." I said that this showed that, in the Church of Rome, orders were conferred, not by laying on of hands with prayer, but by the delivering of the chalice, &c. ; whereas, if, as some suppose in England, the virtue of orders in the apostolic succession can only pass through the hands of the ordaining bishop, there can be none such in the Church of Rome. In her the virtue or grace of the apostolic succession passes through the chalice, and not through the laying on of the hands of the bishop.

He replied by saying that the ordination was a continuous act — one that commenced with the laying on of hands, and ended with the delivering of the chalice ; that though the former was for designation, and the latter was for ordination, yet with the former was connected the power of absolution, and with the latter the power of sacrificing; that by the former was conferred the power of absolving sins, and by the latter the power of offering the sacrifice of the mass. He argued thus that it was to be regarded as one act.

After some further conversation on this point, he went on to say that there were two distinct powers conferred upon a priest : one being inherent in his priesthood and inherent in every priest — a power over the literal and natural body of our Lord, that is, the power of transubstantiation ; the other being null and void unless with the sanction of the bishop ; not inherent in his priesthood, but ceded to the priest by the bishop, that is, the power over his mystical or spiritual body — in other words, the power of absolution.

I said that I was to infer from this that a priest could celebrate mass, that is, could transubstantiate the bread and wine into Christ, and offer him for the sins of the living and the dead without the sanction of the bishop, but that he could not absolve the sins of his people without that episcopal sanction.

He replied that this was precisely the case ; that he could celebrate mass without the bishop, but could not absolve from sins without the bishop ; that the former power was inherent in his priesthood, the latter not.

I felt that he had placed himself in a difficult position by this statement ; so I remarked, If a priest has no power to pronounce absolution without the bishop's license, and yet can say mass without it, then there can be no efficacy in the absolution which he reads, and which the canon of the mass requires him to read. Assuredly, if he can celebrate mass of his inherent power, he can give absolution of his inherent power ; for that absolution is part of the mass, and is, therefore, involved in it.

His answer to this was very remarkable. He had no way of escape but one, and that one he did not hesitate to adopt. He said that the absolution involved in the mass is of no value or efficacy ; that it is only a general absolution of persons of whose sins the priest knows nothing, and of whose repentance he knows nothing, and therefore it is of no efficacy or value, and has no effect ; for, he continued, if the persons have repented, then God has already forgiven

THE JESUITS AT ROME. jq

them, and if they have not repented, then this absolution in the mass can not help them.

I was conscious of the advantage which I might derive from this statement, and I therefore took care to dwell on it and to reiterate it, that it might become an assumed point, an admitted principle between us, to be employed in our after-argument. I waited patiently till our conversation should take such a turn that I might avail myself effectively of so important an admission.

The conversation immediately took another direction. He asked me respecting the movement at Oxford, remarking that the Anglican Church was now in a most interesting state ; that it was giving great promise of many and of better things ; that the late or present religious movement within her was now interesting all Rome, and Europe, and the whole world. And he concluded by asking me my opinion of the movement.

This was the very last question that I wished to answer. I felt it might oblige me to avow my opinions sooner as well as more strongly than I desired. I feared the question might have been proposed with the view to test me — to ascertain my party, and thus to determine the course he should pursue. I knew that if I at once avowed myself a decided antagonist, he would withdraw from all further intercourse with me.

I therefore answered his inquiry by saying that I had been careful to read all the " Tracts for the Times," which were the profession of faith with those among whom the movement originated ; that I did not agree with many of their statements and principles ; and that I thought that my reverend friend was mistaken as to their probable effect on the mind of the people of England — an effect of the very opposite character from that which seemed to be the intention of those who originated it.

He asked me whether I did not think that they tended to create a similarity or union of the Anglican Church with the Roman Church.

I replied that such seemed to be the intention of the parties. They seemed yearning for a union with Rome, but that I apprehended a very different and opposite result; that their proceedings would evoke, and indeed had already evoked, an antagonist spirit, which would be altogether too powerful for them, and I feared would do incalculable mischief to the Church.

He said he was aware that the Anglican bishops in general had set themselves against the movement, but he seemed to treat their interference very lightly. He then begged of me to explain my idea of the manner in which the movement was likely to operate.