Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16) (part 7 of 10)

Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16) (part 7 of 10)

Mr. CLARK would be very glad to hear the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. FINDLAY) specify, upon what subject he was willing to pay a tax? It was beyond the comprehension of Mr. C., for what sort of a tax the gentleman was prepared to vote, or, indeed, what sort of taxes the Western settlers of Pennsylvania pay. We lay a duty on sugar. They make sugar for themselves. We lay a tax on tobacco. They are to manufacture for themselves. We lay an excise on distilleries. They refuse to pay this tax, and, in fact, they do not pay it. We tax wines; but we are told that these people are poor. They cannot, therefore, afford to drink wine, on which the duty is very heavy, for that duty is paid only by the rich. We tax the importation of foreign fineries, such as silk, but silk also is not the dress of poor people, so that here again the constituents of the gentleman get off. We are going to tax the importation of foreign coals, but they have plenty of their own, and so far from paying a tax on them, are cutting a canal to bring them down to Philadelphia; which will drive out the importation of foreign coals, and so destroy the tax altogether. Under these circumstances, Mr. C. was solicitous to learn what taxes the back settlers paid, for, as far as he could understand, they paid none; and their Representative would do well to inform the House on what they were willing to pay a tax. Was Government to be burdened with them, and derive no compensation? Was it a sufficient reason for exempting a district from public burdens to say that the people are poor? Are taxes to be paid exclusively by the rich?

Mr. RUTHERFORD objected to this duty on salt. It was often to be carried from one to three hundred and fifty miles inland, and in fact, it frequently costs twenty shillings per bushel. No tax could be so universally unpopular as this would be.

Mr. FINDLAY replied to Mr. CLARK. As to sugar, though some of his neighbors made theirs, Mr. F. bought his own in Philadelphia. As to silks and other female fineries, his constituents did just like other people. They spent, in that way, as much as they could possibly afford, and had among them ladies very well dressed. As to other matters, his constituents purchased their manufactures in Philadelphia, and paid for them as other people did. Salt, he said, was known to be necessary for cattle in the back country. He was strongly against the tax.

Mr. GILLON likewise opposed the tax on salt. It had been proposed, in the State which he represented, but never could be carried through.

On a division, it was rejected--ayes 32, noes 47.

A motion was made for striking out twenty-five cents per ton of additional tonnage, on foreign vessels, in order to insert fifty.

It was passed in the negative--ayes 39, noes 41.

After going through the bill, the committee rose, and the House went into consideration of the amendments made in Committee of the Whole.

On the subject of an additional duty on coal imported, Mr. GILES said, that the rise was very moderate, from four and a half to six cents per ton. A Boston company was about, as he understood, to embark in this business, but waited to see the steps taken by Congress. There was as much coal in Virginia as would serve all America and Europe besides.

Mr. WADSWORTH would have the additional duty restricted to all coal imported in foreign vessels.

Mr. HEISTER wanted to know, whether the price of coal had not been already doubled within these few years. He was informed that coal imported had of late risen from six dollars per ton, to twelve dollars and a half.

Mr. FITZSIMONS said, that a few years would put an end to importation altogether. He defended the tax. He saw no danger to any of the manufactures in America, that make use of foreign coal arising from this tax. Nothing but a capital was wanting to make America supply herself.

Mr. SHERBURNE recommended the amendment of Mr. WADSWORTH, as to the restriction of this duty to foreign bottoms.

Mr. MADISON worded this amendment, "on all vessels not belonging to citizens of the United States;" because foreign bottoms might belong to people of this country. He was not solicitous about the fate of the motion. The amendment was lost; but the original motion was carried.

SATURDAY, May 17.

Tobacco and Sugar Duties.

The bill laying a duty on tobacco manufactured, and sugar refined, in the United States, was read a second time.

Mr. LYMAN opposed its passing to a third reading, on the ground that those articles deserve yet the fostering care of Government, and are entirely incapable of bearing such a burden; for, even now, notwithstanding the present protecting duties, they, especially the article of manufactured snuff, are yet imported. He also objected to the bill from the exceptionable nature of an excise.

Some objections were made to the propriety of opposing the bill in its present stage.

Mr. CLARK thought the bill unnecessary, because the two and a half per cent. of additional impost would supply all the wants of the public. He thought that the bill had an immoral tendency, because it tempted men to perjure themselves. It was oppressive, as making every man's house liable to be searched at midnight. He thought it also would produce an expensive mode of collection. He, therefore, objected against it, as unnecessary, of an immoral tendency, as oppressive, and expensive. He had always voted against it, and he always should persist in voting against it.

Mr. AMES pressed the necessity for money, and the want of other funds to discharge the services of the current year. He said, that to impose taxes was an unpopular office, and exposed members to dislike. Perhaps they might be persecuted; but it was still requisite for members to perform their duty. He had a great repugnance to the excise as established in Europe; but in America it was of a different nature. To reject the present bill would place the finances of this country in a very alarming point of view. If this bill was thrown out, we might bid farewell to firm and determined measures. We must go home when we are to lay a tax, and ask the people whether or not they like it.

Mr. NICHOLAS went into the old arguments against excise. He was severe on the general character of excise officers, whom he represented as the dregs of society. Very few persons in America would accept of such an office at all, and those who accepted of it, were by no means of a respectable rank in life.

Mr. FITZSIMONS.--There are as good men employed in the collection of the revenue as any others in the country, not excepting the gentleman himself; and men who are as well liked by their neighbors.

Mr. W. SMITH.--The rejection of the bill at this time will not decide the principle of excise; if rejected, it will not be owing to the arguments against it, but to the absence of a great many members, who never dreamed that the question would have been brought on to-day, and who do not even know that the bill has been so much as reported. The practice is uncandid, and unprecedented, to endeavor to reject a bill at this stage, before it has been printed, and the members know its contents. Was it fair and consistent, in a thin House, to reject the bill without any further consideration than one reading, for the sake of form, a reading, to which nobody had listened? How was this to settle the principle of excise? Was it not already settled in the constitution and by existing laws? But a new argument had been this day resorted to; there was a surplus of revenue in the Treasury, without new taxes, and this had been discovered since this tax had been agreed to. If this argument was founded in fact, it would put an end to all debates on all the new taxes; but what was this notable discovery? an additional two and a half per cent. on impost. This was no discovery which could change the question, for it was agreed to before the duty on manufactured tobacco and sugar; and the latter had been therefore established by the House, with a knowledge that the former was laid. He asked if, in the present situation of the country, all dependence was to be placed on commerce? How could certain members reconcile this proceeding with their former votes and language? But the other day we were to prohibit all commercial intercourse, to sequester debts, and to prepare for war. Now, we are to derive the whole of the revenues from trade; the same gentlemen who urged these measures were now defeating every kind of revenue which might be productive. There was something so extraordinary in this, that he could not account for it. It was said, that the Committee of Ways and Means ought not to have reckoned on a defalcation, in the impost of $1,300,000, but the gentlemen assign no reasons for their assertion, whereas the committee founded their report on the best information. Admit, however, that it is doubtful; was it safe, in the present critical state of the country, to place all dependence on external resources, which were every moment in danger of being cut off? Did not duty require a provision for the defence and safety of the United States by internal resources? This was certain, that the extra appropriations of this year exceeded those of any former year by two millions and a half of dollars. Where was the money to come from? The members in opposition to this tax, voted out land and salt; they endeavored to vote out stamps and carriages. They will agree to nothing but impost. Are the merchants to be saddled with the whole burden, because, like friends to order and tranquillity, they have not called town-meetings, or published inflammatory resolves? It is said, war is no longer expected; this country is willing to submit to every thing. Was this insinuation pointed at Congress or the Executive? It was unfounded in either case; because negotiation was tried, it did not follow that either the one or the other branch of the Government were disposed tamely to submit to injury; for himself, he was ready to aver that, if proper reparation were not obtained, he should be for war. The balance now being trembling on its beam, and no one could say whether it would settle for peace or war, he was for preparing seriously for the latter, while he strove to preserve the former. Pecuniary exertions were indispensable; it might be a pleasant thing to oppose taxes, and the advocates of new taxes might be obnoxious, but this would not draw him from his duty. The increase of excise officers had been mentioned; the bill did not propose a single one; the bad character of the excise officers had been mentioned; the supervisors were among the most respectable men in the United States, and the inspectors were as virtuous as the officers of the customs. The embarrassments, the taking of oaths, &c., were not more applicable to manufacturers than to merchants and captains, who could not enter, or unlade, or clear out, without difficulties, embarrassments, and oaths; but this was disregarded, as if they had less feeling than other people. As to the injury to morals, the necessary oaths required by all revenue laws were not injurious to the morals of the honest, and those who swore to the truth; and, as to those who were disposed to commit frauds and perjuries, no injury could be done to the morals of those who had none. Mr. S. wished that less had been said in the way of general reflection on the collectors of the revenue. Some years ago, a member of that House, when they were at New York, attacked the tide-waiters. There happened to be a tide-waiter in the gallery, who wrote, next day, a pretty smart letter to the member who had spoken so freely of his profession.

Mr. NILES hoped that no gentleman would say, that he wished to see the Treasury empty. He would, for his own part, be glad to know whether there was a deficiency or not, clearly stated. He did not see so much as some others did, in the objections to an excise. It was called an excise, it was true, but we do not know yet the way in which it is to be levied; so, we cannot tell whether there will be any hardship in it or not. He went over some of the statements of different gentlemen, but on the whole, there was so much contradiction in the assertions of different members, that Mr. N. knew not what to make of them.

Mr. BOUDINOT moved that the House adjourn, which they did immediately, at three o'clock.

MONDAY, May 19.

Impressment of American Seamen.

Mr. MURRAY moved, that a committee be appointed to report a bill to provide such regulations as may enable American seamen to obtain and carry evidence of citizenship, for the purpose of protecting them from impressment into foreign service. He said, that it was a reasonable expectation that the subject of this resolution should be seriously attended to, at any time; but there were the most urgent reasons for an attention to the situation of our fellow-citizens of this description at the present period. That the evil of impressment into foreign service existed, no gentleman could doubt, and it was equally doubtless, that it was the duty of Congress, as far as they could, to provide a remedy for the evil. A few years since, when Britain armed her navy against Spain, on the Nootka-Sound question, it had been the fate of several hundreds of the American seamen to be impressed into a service which they abhorred. For a proof of this fact, he would recall the remembrance of the House to the claim made by Mr. Cutting for repayment of money actually expended by him, in the liberation of seamen in this humiliating situation. Congress repaid Mr. Cutting two thousand dollars. That they had thus attended to this claim was proof that the fact complained of existed. The evil arose, not more from the extreme insolence of disposition of the pressgangs, than from a real difficulty of discriminating American citizens from British subjects. The difficulty was in similarity of language, dress, and manners; and from the deficiency of evidence of citizenship, which, in a foreign port, could not always be obtained. For, though the Lords of the Admiralty of England had laid down certain rules, in the case that he had mentioned, the rules laid down had exacted so rigid and pointed an oath, from personal knowledge, that they scarcely could, in any case, be complied with. A captain might, in many instances, believe his sailor to be an American, and yet not think himself warranted in making oath to this fact. The object of his resolution was, that seamen, who are American citizens, might all pursue a uniform line of evidence in proof of citizenship, and that, by an entry of such evidence solemnly obtained in the clearances or other authentic papers of the ship, the same weight and authority should be given to their part of a ship's papers as were, in all cases, given to all sea letters and other papers. He believed that, if the subject went to a select committee, a particular regulation on this subject might be digested, which would, in many cases, if not in all, afford such good evidence of citizenship, as would save American seamen from the injustice and cruelty that many, he believed, now actually suffered under; for he had heard that a number of them had been impressed in the West Indies on board of the British fleet. He was not so sanguine as to imagine, that any law could give full protection to our seamen; for he was convinced that, in order to give complete protection, certain rules of evidence must first be recognized, by convention between this country and Britain, stipulating the extent of certain political principles relative to alienage and allegiance. Till, however, that is done, he thought it the duty of Congress, and particularly at this disturbed period, to afford every aid in its power to this class of citizens. To bring the subject before the House, he had moved the resolution, which he gave notice that he would call up to-morrow.

Tobacco and Sugar Duties.

The House then resumed the consideration of the bill for laying a duty on manufactured tobacco and refined sugar, which had been debated and postponed on Saturday.

Mr. GOODHUE wished for a delay. He had seen a gentleman from Pennsylvania, last night, whom he did not now see in his place in the House, and who was making out an estimate, whether the money proposed to be raised by these taxes would be wanted or not. If they could really do without the money, it would be better to reject the bill.

Mr. SHERBURNE thought that the question might be delayed, till it was seen whether the sums to be produced by this bill, would be actually required or not.

Mr. DAYTON believed that the money was wanted. He would therefore vote for the bill. It was incumbent on gentlemen who objected to the bill, to show that the money would not be wanted.

Mr. SMILIE and Mr. LEE rose at the same time.

The SPEAKER observed, that Mr. SMILIE had risen first.

Mr. LEE said, that the gentleman from Pennsylvania had already spoken twice on this subject and he insisted for order. [Mr. L. referred to the proceedings of Saturday, for Mr. SMILIE had not spoke any before, this day.] Our time, said Mr. L., is too precious to be wasted in talking, when every gentleman is competent to give his vote already. I call for the question. His opinion was, that the money was not yet wanted; and that it was being too provident to vote for taxes, before they were required by necessity.

Mr. W. SMITH contended, that there would be a very considerable deficiency. He asked, who would lend us money, if there was such a difficulty in establishing funds to pay the interest of it?

Mr. WADSWORTH hoped that the bill would not be altogether thrown aside. There was part of it that he approved, and part of it that he did not perfectly approve. In discussing this question, much stress has been laid upon the two and a half per cent. of additional impost on importations, as if that would be a fund for the increase of revenue, and supersede the necessity for some other taxes. Mr. W. assigned his reasons for believing that this supposition was perfectly chimerical. Within the last six months, American vessels and property had been captured by the British privateers in the West Indies, to the extent of one million of dollars. This will make the importations less, by at least five hundred thousand dollars, and, of consequence, destroy a great part both of the old and new impost. Property to the extent of one-fourth of a million of dollars, perhaps, had likewise been seized by the Spaniards, and other nations had most likely taken as much more. The total loss to American commerce could not, therefore, be less than fifteen hundred thousand dollars. The imposts on importations must, therefore, be very much reduced; as from Britain, for example, there would not, in his judgment, be one-fourth part of the imports, from this time to the first of December, that had been formerly. And no man could imagine that, at the most, they would exceed one-half of their former amount. The British merchants would be afraid, on account of the matters that had been proposed. These people, they would say, have been laying embargoes, and speaking of sequestration, and indemnification. We must be cautious. Mr. W. added, that it was possible enough, that America might, in the fall, be at war with Britain; and then impost and importation will fall together. These were his motives for believing that the two and a half per cent. would be of no great consequence. It had been said, that the ten per cent. would produce a large augmentation. He did not, from the diminished quantity of imports, believe that it would be so much, by twenty or thirty per cent. as the old seven and half duty had produced. Mr. W. next reverted to the bill before the House. One part of it (the duty on snuff) he could not agree to. The other part, refined sugars, would fall on those who could afford to pay it, and after all that had been said against this bill, he was firmly convinced, that, so far from injuring the manufacture, it would thrive the better for this tax. He, on this account, hoped that the bill would pass, in spite of his objection to some things that might, perhaps, be corrected. He then replied to the complaints of some gentlemen, who, as an excuse for repeating over and over again their former arguments and opinions, observed, that they had not received an answer. It was very likely that they might think so, and he, for his part, did not think that he had been answered. This kind of reasoning had no end. Perhaps it was impossible for him, or gentlemen of his sentiments, to answer the opposite side of the question. And, again, perhaps the gentlemen of the opposite opinion could not answer them. The matter must rest there, and the question come to a vote.

Mr. FITZSIMONS was convinced that there was a deficiency, and a great one. But he was not fully prepared to speak upon the subject; though he was sure of the fact. He did not wish to hurry the subject. The bill might be printed.

Mr. NICHOLAS was sorry to have learned that he had, on Saturday, made a general reflection on a profession of men. With some gentlemen, in the line referred to, he had as strict a friendship as with any persons on earth. He said, that ten lines of figures, which he had in his hand, would satisfy the House, that the taxes in the present bill are not wanted. He then began a detail of considerable length, to which Mr. FITZSIMONS replied.

Mr. TRACY.--One gentleman says that we have a surplus of three millions; another, that we have a surplus of one million. It is very strange for gentlemen to be coming forward in this stage of the debate, and to say that money is not wanted, after the want of money has been so frequently advanced, and admitted, in the House. It is unaccountable, that there should be a contradiction on a point of this nature. He next went into a long series of calculations.

He objected to the estimate of the impost of 1793, that was reckoned upon for the current expenses of 1794. A great part of this impost was still due, by bonds. The persons who had given these bonds were, many of them, broke by the British depredations in the West Indies; and, in fact, a large proportion of that impost never would be paid in to the collectors of the revenue.

He was displeased with the way in which some gentlemen had spoken of the national debt. He had no share, for his own part, as a creditor; but a part of his property must go to the discharge of it, and he should cheerfully pay it. He did not agree with those gentlemen who, in the event of a peace, would not wish to replenish the Treasury. It was curious, that the House had now been assembled for nearly six months; and that their chief object had been to discover ways and means for raising public money. A bill for that purpose had been brought in; and just when it was on the point of being passed, we make a sudden and wonderful discovery, that no money is wanted; but that we have an overplus of three millions of dollars. The thing cannot be. The calculations are not founded on truth. He did not believe that members understood the bill. He could demonstrate that there was occasion for a supply of money.

Mr. MADISON thought that the arguments on each side of this question might be reduced to a narrow compass. If peace continues, he supposed it likely that the revenue would not fall so far short, as the committee had apprehended. But if there was a war, the expense would much exceed any thing yet thought of. He was for laying aside the subject at present, and if a rupture with England should ensue, he would then recommend, at once, a direct tax, and that these excise acts should be entirely thrown aside. If there was no war, he believed that no new taxes were required; let the matter therefore die, as to the present. He disapproved the principle of the tax, and should, on that account, think himself justified in voting against it.

Mr. GILLON rose, and replied to several gentlemen, who were for the excise on tobacco, snuff, and loaf and lump sugar; and observed, that he had partly obtained his object, by drawing gentlemen forward, with the calculations which had been kept back. But as the gentlemen, after having, by their own account, been three months on this subject, avowed that his request of detailing those large sums came rather unexpected, and that they wished to have more time to make their calculations, he had not much objection to let this bill have a second reading; but he hoped they would be accurate, in proportion to the time taken to preface them. As to the idea of our general taxes not taking place until the first of next March, that had no weight with him; because he knew the Civil List for the year was not all then due, nor would all the sum for military and naval preparations be to be paid down, the day the ore was dug for the guns, nor on the day that the first tree was cut to begin the frigates.

He agreed that a deficiency might arise on the supplies now due, for the terms which the gentlemen had assigned by the plunder of our merchants' property. He was happy to find that gentlemen had not lost sight of the serious applications they had received from that respectable and utile body (the merchants) for redress; and he should take care to remind gentlemen of their own observations, when the requests of the merchants were brought forward, as he was clear something must be done, either by restitution on the debts to be sequestered, a loan for them under the guarantee of the Union, or by prolonging the time to a remote period, of paying the duties that they owed. He was accused of making wonderful discoveries, of making calculations not founded in truth. The latter he denied, for, if there is any untruth in them, it cannot be on his side, but must have arisen from the committee; therefore, to them be the untruth applicable, as he did not make use of a figure but what they placed in their report.

He still retained his opinion, that surplus revenue was dangerous in the hands of any Government. What did they want to do with it? He hoped nothing else but to buy up the national funded debt as cheap as they could, which act was pardonable, only by the intent, he presumed, they must feel of at last doing justice to our late armies. His meaning was, that the profits arising from this speculation should be kept as a sacred deposit out at interest, and that interest to be employed towards paying off the interest due on the principal losses which our brave officers and soldiers had met with, by being obliged to part with their shares of pay at a very inferior value. This you may better pay to patriotism and misfortune than pay to speculators.

Mr. TRACY.--If I have said what is alleged, the language is too indecorous to be used by me to any gentleman on this floor. If any thing of that kind has escaped from me, I am ready to ask the gentleman's pardon. I have the highest respect for his character.

And the question was then put, Shall this bill be rejected? It passed in the negative--yeas 31, nays 56, as follows:

YEAS.--Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Isaac Coles, William Findlay, William B. Giles, Alexander Gillon, Andrew Gregg, Daniel Heister, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Thomas Tredwell, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.

NAYS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, William J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, James Gillespie, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, John Hunter, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Matthew Locke, Francis Malbone, Alexander Mebane, William Vans Murray, Alexander D. Orr, Andrew Pickens, Theodore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Silas Talbot, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Artemas Ward, John Watts, and Benjamin Williams.

The said bill was then read the second time, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House on Wednesday next.

Augmentation of the Army.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill to augment the military force of the United States; and after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had had the said bill under consideration, and made amendment thereto; which was read, as follows:

Strike out the first section of the bill, in the words following, to wit:

"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there shall be raised, for the term of ---- years, or during a war which may break out between the United States and any European Power, an additional military force, consisting of twenty-five thousand non-commissioned officers, privates, and musicians, together with a proper proportion of commissioned officers of all grades, respectively, according to the present Military Establishment of the United States:"

And on the question that the House do agree with the Committee of the whole House in the said amendment, it was resolved in the affirmative.

A motion was then made and seconded to amend the said bill, by inserting, in lieu of the section stricken out, the following section, to wit:

"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there shall be raised, upon the terms and conditions hereafter mentioned, an additional provisional military force, to consist of ---- non-commissioned officers, privates, and musicians, together with a proper proportion of commissioned officers."

It passed in the negative--yeas 30, nays 50, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, John Beatty, Benjamin Bourne, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Jonathan Dayton, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Silas Talbot, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and John Watts.

NAYS.--James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Abraham Clark, Joshua Coit, Isaac Coles, William J. Dawson, Henry Dearborn, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Alexander Gillon, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, John Hunter, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John S. Sherburne, John Smilie, Israel Smith, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, Benjamin Williams, and Joseph Winston.

And then the question being put that the said bill, as amended, be engrossed and read the third time, it passed in the negative. And so the said bill was rejected.

FRIDAY, May 23.

Tobacco and Sugar Duties.

The House went into a committee, Mr. TRUMBULL in the chair, on the bill for an excise on tobacco, snuff, and refined sugar.

In the first section, it was agreed to strike out the words, "tobacco and." This proposed that the word tobacco be struck out in every subsequent part of the bill, so that the duty be confined to the manufacture of snuff.

Mr. MUHLENBERG (The SPEAKER) moved to strikeout the second section, "that from and after the ---- day of ---- there be levied, collected, and paid, upon all sugar which shall be refined within the United States, a duty of two cents per pound."

He would not trouble the committee with any comments on the excise, enough having already been said on that subject; although he could not forbear mentioning, that in England, where almost every thing was subject to an excise, and where the Minister is ever on the watch to discover new articles for that purpose, loaf sugar had never yet been taxed, the Committee on Ways and Means had all the credit of the seasonable discovery. The reason for not attempting an excise on this article was obvious, because the manufacture employed a greater quantity of shipping than any other, they therefore rather wished to encourage than to depress it; the former of which they effectually do, by allowing a generous drawback on exportation of refined sugar, for which the different ports of the Continent afford them a constant and ready market. The case was widely different here. The manufacture is yet in its infant state--it has to contend with the old established ones in Europe, who have larger capitals and can afford longer credits, whereas we have not only no market to export it to, but even now already, can annually make a quantity more than sufficient for the consumption of the United States. It is true, it appears from the last returns, that upwards of 200,000 lbs. of refined sugars were imported last year, which is about the same quantity which two houses might furnish in one year, but it is to be observed, that owing to the high price of raw sugars, some establishments were not worked at all, whilst others did not work above eight or nine months in the year, and I will here, said Mr. M., venture to assert, that if this duty of two cents actually takes place, some of those who are now engaged in this difficult and expensive business will abandon it and turn their capitals into other channels. I do not stand alone in this opinion; others, of more experience, join me, and it is founded on the following incontrovertible facts. Raw sugars have for several years past been so high, that refined sugars naturally bore an equally high price. This has already lessened the consumption, to a considerable degree, in the United States, and from the present prospect before us, when the French islands are in the hands of the British, the probability is, that they will rather be higher than lower; and if the two cents be added to the present high price of refined sugars, the consumption will still be lessened in the same proportion as the price of the article increases. This observation is founded on facts, which every person concerned in the business has felt, and daily experiences; nay, it can be proved, however strange it may appear, that a less quantity of refined sugar is consumed at present in the United States, than a year or two before the Revolution. Again, owing to the high price of refined sugars, and which must be still higher when this duty takes place, many even of our opulent families have, in a great degree, abandoned the use of it, and substituted the white Havana, or the white East India sugar. I well remember a remarkable instance of this kind which took place not many months ago in this city. A gentleman having imported a considerable quantity of white East India sugar, sold it to the refiners of this place. Before the sale was concluded, he reserved a quantity for himself and an opulent friend of his. The consequence was that neither himself nor his friend used half the quantity of refined sugar they had used the year before.

Permit me to add another circumstance. Sugars are higher at present, and from a variety of circumstances must continue to be higher here than in England, and although an additional duty on imported loaf and lump sugar may take place, unless it exceeds what I have yet heard mentioned, they will be able to undersell the manufacturers here, and this from the single circumstance of their being allowed a drawback of 26_s._ sterling per cwt., for if even a drawback of the same sum was allowed us here, which is not to be expected, it cannot operate, because we have no market for this article. In the West Indies, it is well known to be contraband, and to transport it to Europe, would be carrying water into the ocean, and even then it could not be accomplished on as low terms as the Europeans can afford to do it.

One fact more, equally incontrovertible, suffer me to add. By the additional duty on coal, which I am far from disapproving, because I wish to encourage the consumption of our home productions, you have, in fact, laid an additional tax on sugar. Every work of this kind consumes annually from 2,000 to 4,000 bushels. This article was heretofore at the rate of eleven pence or one shilling per bushel; owing to the duty on imported coal, it has now risen to 2_s._ to 2_s._ 4_d._ This naturally enhances the price of the article made in this manufacture, which is already burdened to a considerable degree with taxes or duties. Thus, there is a duty on the raw material, a duty on the paper they use, a duty on the twine, a duty on the coal, and, to crown all, a duty is intended on the article produced in this devoted manufacture. If it is thus my friend from Connecticut means to do us good, or if this is the decided encouragement and protection my colleague means to yield us, it is such a one as I am sure the manufacturer will not thank him for.

Sir, I could add that this bill partakes strongly of the nature of a sumptuary law; that in case of a war it will not produce you any revenue, because the supplies of the raw material are too irregular, and no other but imported sugar is refined, which already pays a duty; and that by this duty you not only lessen the consumption, but also increase the number of those who cannot pay for it; but I forbear to trespass any longer on the patience of the committee on this subject.

But, Mr. Chairman, we want money to build our frigates and arsenals, to fortify our ports and harbors, and to release our unfortunate brethren in captivity. We want revenues. If this really be the intention of the committee, and not merely to establish the principle of excise on home manufactures, no one will join more cheerfully in such measures as shall appear most prudent and most likely to obtain the object, and which, in my opinion, will neither injure the commerce of this country, nor in an equal degree the manufactures, nor indeed the poorer sort of the community who consume the article of sugar.

By the last returns which I could lay my hands on, it appears that there are annually imported into the United States upwards of twenty-five millions of pounds of sugar, and from the same returns it appears that about four or four and a half millions are exported, which are allowed a drawback of the duty on exportation; thus then there are upwards of twenty millions of pounds annually consumed in the United States.

You have, in the late impost bill, imposed an additional duty of one cent per pound on coffee; half that sum additional duty on raw sugar will yield you upwards of 100,000 dollars. This then will at once yield you the sum which the committee expected from an excise both on sugar and manufactured tobacco, and will neither injure the merchant, nor in an equal degree the manufacturer, nor indeed the poor; the latter, and in my opinion none but the idle can be so, as well as many others, have long since substituted molasses for all the purposes for which they heretofore used sugar; besides which the American sugar is daily getting more into use, and bids fair to become general, at least at and near the frontiers.

When, therefore, it is considered that this manufacture is yet in its infancy in the United States; that it has to contend with the old established ones of Europe; that there is no excise on this article in England; that this manufacture employs a great quantity of tonnage; that raw sugars are high here, and comparatively low in Europe; that there is a drawback in England, which operates as a bounty, and which from local situations cannot operate, if even granted, with the same advantage here; when it is reduced to a certainty that the duty will operate injuriously on the manufactures here; and when it appears that double the sum can be raised by a trifling additional duty on raw sugar, without any additional expense or inconvenience, and which will effectually remove the evils complained of, I flatter myself the motion will prevail.

Mr. FITZSIMONS objected to the proposal of the SPEAKER, for a tax of half a cent per pound on common sugar imported. The unrefined sugar formed a considerable portion of the subsistence of the poor. Formerly, the price of it was not more than sixpence, (currency,) but it is now twelve pence per pound. The coffee duty was another, to which Mr. F. had felt reluctance, because coffee is an article of universal consumption, and the tax upon it falls where taxes ought not to fall, that is upon the poor; but there is no help for it. He would, if possible, have avoided this tax, for coffee, formerly eleven pence or a shilling per pound, has risen to one shilling and ten pence. Mr. F. said, that we are able to lay a heavy enough tax on imported sugar effectually to protect our own sugar refiners. It had been said that the two cents per pound duty would make it requisite for the refiners to augment their capitals. This he could not believe, because the Executive gives credit to the manufacturers for the payment of the duty. Mr. F. said, that the time was perhaps not distant, when we shall be obliged to seek sugar in the East Indies. Britain has acquired the West Indies, which will increase the difficulties of this country in obtaining it from that part of the world.

Mr. MCDOWELL hoped that the section would be struck out. He objected to the principle of the bill. He considered it as highly impolitic to tax the infant manufactures of America. He would rather, if the Public Treasury could afford it, give a premium for the encouragement of our manufactures, to dissolve the dependence of the United States upon Europe. This dependence of ours has repeatedly been urged as a reason why the House ought not to adopt certain commercial regulations and restrictions. Some gentlemen had undertaken to prove that the manufacturers would be benefited by such laws, an assertion which he considered as very extraordinary. The manufacturers themselves understood their business best, and thought quite otherwise. This tax will not only alarm those already engaged, but will prevent other men of enterprise and capital from engaging in manufactures, when they find that the moment their business becomes profitable, they are to be taxed.

He could not help remarking upon some observations that fell from his friend, (Mr. BALDWIN, from Georgia,) when this subject was before the committee some days ago. It had been objected that the bill was not well founded, as it established a new principle; and the member (Mr. BALDWIN) replied, that it was not new, as there was already an excise fixed on ardent spirits. He had opposed that law, but since it was passed, he could not object to the present bill. Had the gentleman reflected, he would have seen that there was equal reason for resisting this bill, because it fixed that obnoxious principle more strongly, by giving a further sanction to an American excise. Mr. McD. also considered the tax to be unnecessary. The tax was contemplated on the prospect of a war which has now become less likely, the British having, since the Orders of the 8th of January, relaxed their depredations. Further, the tax was unnecessary, because, it was asserted by several very well informed merchants, that the amount of the impost this year would exceed that of the last.

On dividing, the motion for striking out the clause was rejected--ayes 31, nays 45.

WEDNESDAY, May 28.

Advance of Money to France.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the report of the committee to whom was referred the Message of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, of the 18th of March last, relative to an advance of money requested by the Minister of the French Republic.

Mr. GILES offered the following motion:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be authorized and requested to apply the proceeds of the loan of three millions of florins, lately obtained in Holland, towards the discharge of the debt remaining due to France; or to the protection and defence of the United States, if, in his opinion, the same should be found necessary for that purpose, any appropriation to the contrary notwithstanding."

Mr. HILLHOUSE was of opinion that, before any payments in advance should be made to the French Minister, it was proper to secure the indemnification of our own citizens, who had sustained such immense losses by the detention of their vessels in the ports of the Republic, both in Europe and the West Indies. Mr. H. here made a distinction, that if the term stipulated for payment of an instalment to France had actually arrived, he would have made that payment, though they had burnt our ships, and have sought redress in the ordinary way. But when they come forward before the money is due, and make such a requisition, he thought it a fair opportunity to secure the claims of American citizens.

Mr. NICHOLAS was in favor of the motion. He felt, as an American, that the cause of this country and of France were inseparably connected; and that giving the money to the Republic was equivalent to expending it in the service of the United States. He reminded the House of the indelible obligations of America to France. That Republic is now reduced to distress, as this country was when supported by the French arms. Every principle of humanity, of honor, of gratitude, and of justice, calls upon us to give that nation the most effectual support in our power.

Mr. FITZSIMONS.--The Americans have applied to M. Fauchet, for payment in this country. He has assured them that he cannot give it, but that he will inform the French Government of their application. They are satisfied to wait for the reply to the Minister, which is expected from Europe.

Mr. AMES remarked, that, as the three millions of florins had been loaned in Holland for the defence of this country, it would be something worse than imprudence to give it away for any other purpose. The cause of France does not depend on her receiving a million of dollars. She is in a much better situation to give us that sum, than we are to advance it for her. He did not think that, to keep our money to ourselves, and to bestow it upon France, were the same thing, nor did he believe that it would be so considered by the citizens of the United States. He could not approve the motion.

Mr. GILLON thought that, as to the claims of American citizens, a complete answer had been given by the member from Pennsylvania. If the merchants themselves are willing to wait for an answer from France, nobody else has any concern with the matter. He rejected the idea of not paying the money to the French until it was due, unless with a restriction in favor of the American claimants. The money due to France had been advanced by her in the time of our utmost distress. It was at present wanted for her own defence. To indulge us, indeed, she had formerly granted a longer time than she was obliged to grant for the repayment. But if necessity compelled her to solicit an abridgment of that indulgence, is it inconsistent with the feelings of honor and generosity, to refuse her such a request?

Mr. WADSWORTH was too ill-informed upon this question, to know upon what side he ought to vote. Much had been said about the gratitude due from this country to France. We had been grateful, indeed, since we had suffered them for a long time past to plunder our vessels without making a complaint. He stated that the American property seized in the ports of France amounted to one million of dollars, and that taken by her in the West India Colonies, to four millions of dollars. Much of this property had been paid for in such a way, that the owners did not realize more than twenty-five per cent. of its value. The present application had been made a long time ago, and Mr. W. did not suppose that the French Minister could, at present, be in any want of the money. Since the time when he first sought for it, something had happened which altered the case. The greatest portion of specie in America is now at the command of M. Fauchet. There can be, therefore, no pretence for giving away this million of dollars on the plea of necessity. The Republic herself possesses, if we are to believe common fame, more cash than all the kings in Europe; and, though the story may be very greatly exaggerated, yet make allowance for exaggeration, and still her treasures are very great. No part of her misfortunes can be ascribed to the want of money. Matters so standing, he thought that it was our duty to make a halt, and begin to take some care of the interests of our fellow-citizens. As for gratitude towards the Republic, he felt as much of that sentiment as those who talked more about it than he did. But he had not learned any good reason why this money should be disposed of in this way; and he could not agree to vote so great a sum where he could not see the need.

Mr. BOURNE said, that the purposes for which it had been first asked, had been long since accomplished without it. The transportation of the emigrants of St. Domingo to France had been given as a reason for this request, but they were all gone already.

Mr. SEDGWICK and Mr. GOODHUE also spoke. The resolution was carried in the committee, and reported to the House, where it was likewise carried; and it was

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolution, and that Mr. MADISON, Mr. BEATTY, and Mr. HEISTER, do prepare and bring in the same.

FRIDAY, May 30.

Military Establishment.

The bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act to increase the Military Force of the United States, and to encourage the recruiting service," was read the first time.

Mr. SMILIE objected that there must be some other purpose for these troops than any that had been acknowledged; for he could see none. The principle of the bill was wrong.

Mr. GILES said, that the bill ought to be named "A bill authorizing the PRESIDENT to pass a law for raising ten thousand men." In point of principle, it was infinitely worse than the former one, which the House had already rejected, (the one supported by Mr. SEDGWICK.) He hoped that they would not suffer it to go to a second reading. We had made estimates of the expenses of this year, and have been told that the ways and means are not sufficient. Yet, in the face of this, to come upon us all at once with the expense of a standing army of ten thousand men was too hard. He trusted that gentlemen who would vote for a second reading would explain the reasons that could induce them to such a measure. The time spent upon such a bill would be perfectly cast away. He was at a loss to discover against whom these ten thousand men were to be employed.

Mr. HILLHOUSE could not, at this moment, decide whether he ought to vote for this bill or not. He would recommend a Committee of the Whole to examine its merits. He should think it ungenerous for any gentleman in that House to call for his vote till it had been fully discussed.

Mr. FITZSIMONS.--If we were to debate for a week upon it, I am sure that there cannot be one new idea started. The whole argument lies in so narrow a compass that every member may decide on a first hearing. The question is, whether, on account of the particular state of the country at this time, it is proper to intrust the PRESIDENT with a discretionary power of raising an army of ten thousand men? For my own part, I am as ready to decide just now as I ever can be.

Mr. AMES.--If we are to go to war, will it not be a prodigious saving of expense to have all matters ready beforehand? By being prepared two months before the war breaks out, the advantages in economy would be immense, as the price of enlisting men would rise fourfold when it was once known that war was certain. He knew many weak parts in the Union that might be attacked and in danger before a body of militia could be ready for effectual service. He was not qualified for details of this sort; but he knew that Rhode Island, for example, might be taken, and, in a short time, so strongly fortified, that it would be difficult or impossible to retake it. Why were we afraid to intrust the PRESIDENT with the power of raising ten thousand men? Can any body of men to be raised in this country tread down the substantial yeomanry? This is quite a Utopian dread. It is infinitely cheaper to raise and embody an army at leisure, when the storm is seen to be approaching, than all at once, when twenty things must be done at the same time. There is, besides, a material distinction between this bill and the former. The force may be discontinued whenever the Legislature thinks proper; nor is it to be raised at all unless the PRESIDENT sees or thinks it necessary. The principle of the bill is, therefore, much less exceptionable than that of the other. To reject a bill on the first reading is a bad practice. Mr. A. hoped that the House would guard against it, unless where any thing was grossly improper, and depended on a single principle. But he trusted that the House would, in every common case, set their faces against it.

Mr. SMILIE controverted every thing said by Mr. AMES. He thought that the measure would involve this country in a very useless expense. Did we intend to rival the military establishments in Europe? The British might be expected to increase their forces in Canada in proportion to those of the United States.

Mr. DAYTON followed Mr. SMILIE, and said, that the arguments of the member who spoke last, although intended to make a different impression, had convinced him of the impropriety of rejecting this bill upon its first reading. That gentleman had thought proper to enter into the intrinsic merits at this stage of it, when those who favored its principles could have no opportunity of defending or amending the particular parts of it. He had heard the objects of it grossly misrepresented. It had been asserted that the bill contemplated the increase of our military peace establishment to sixteen thousand men.

[Mr. SMILIE interrupted Mr. DAYTON by declaring that he had never said or meant any such thing. But the defence of the Western Territory was to require six thousand men; and these, with the ten thousand to be raised by this bill, would amount, in the whole, to sixteen thousand men.]

No such thing (said Mr. D.) was to be found in it, and he called upon gentlemen to show upon what such an assertion was founded. He, for one, was of opinion that the interests and safety of the United States might be materially promoted by our vesting the PRESIDENT with the power to raise these men, if war should break out in the recess of Congress. Who did not believe that such an event was not only possible, but in some degree probable? Who would say that, if war should be forced upon us, this would not be considered as a most valuable provision, because we might have this respectable body of troops engaged, equipped, and prepared to act the moment that hostilities should be declared by the constituted authority? He would address himself to the feelings and interests of the member who spoke last, and those similarly circumstanced. They resided in the interior parts of the country, and hence it was that they did not seem to experience such lively sensations at the approach of danger on the eastern frontiers--the sea. What (he asked) was their situation, and what had they to fear in case of an open rupture with Great Britain? It was easy to foresee that they would be vigorously pressed, not only by those Indians which are at present hostile, and by the regular troops in that quarter, but by all the neighboring nations of savages over whom British threats or bribes could have influence. A part of the Six Nations, too, would probably join the confederacy, and the frontier settlers of Virginia, Pennsylvania, and New York, would certainly be driven in. With such a corps as the one proposed, an early check might be given to their irruptions, and the war be carried to their towns.

On the other hand, what would be the consequence, if, after the PRESIDENT perceives a war inevitable, he is not permitted to make the smallest preparation until he can convene Congress? Two months must be lost in convening them, owing to the extreme distances of their residence, all which time would be employed by our enemies in increasing their forces, in strengthening their posts, and establishing new ones, and in invading our country. Let this discretionary power be given to the PRESIDENT, (with whom much greater had repeatedly been lodged, and had never in any instance been improperly exercised,) and the men might be engaged while the members were collecting, and a small army in readiness to act as Congress should by law direct and authorize. No danger could arise from it, because the enlistments of those who might be engaged would be void, unless the Legislature, immediately upon their meeting, should confirm them. It had been said, that our reliance should be upon the militia. He had, Mr. D. said, as high an opinion of militia as any member in that House, for he had witnessed their exertions and importance in the late war; but could it be said that it would be very convenient or agreeable to them, to be drawn a distance from their own homes, to be employed in taking and garrisoning posts, if it should be deemed advisable to direct operations of that kind? He concluded, with wishing that the bill might be allowed to have a second reading, as constructions had been imputed to it which it certainly would not bear.

Mr. MADISON did not accede to the principle of the bill. He did not see any such immediate prospect of a war, as could induce the House to violate the constitution. He thought that it was a wise principle in the constitution, to make one branch of Government raise an army, and another conduct it. If the Legislature had the power to conduct an army, they might embody it for that end. On the other hand, if the PRESIDENT was empowered to raise an army, as he is to direct its motions when raised, he might wish to assemble it for the sake of the influence to be acquired by the command. The constitution had wisely guarded against that danger on either side. He could not, in the present case, consent to the breaking down of this barrier of public safety. He saw no necessity for it; nor any violent probability, that this country will be speedily invaded by any force, to which the present military establishment cannot make an adequate resistance. Let us hear from the Minister whom we have just sent to Britain, before we take such abrupt and expensive measures. We shall certainly hear from him, at least, before we are invaded. Now, if we enter into a calculation of the time requisite for his arrival in Britain, for commencing his business, and for sending back an account of what kind of reception he has met with, we shall find that by this period, Congress will have met again; or at least, the interval will be so small as to make it not worth while to embrace any measure of this kind.

Upon the whole, he could not venture to give his consent for violating so salutary a principle of the constitution as that upon which this bill encroached.

Mr. SEDGWICK differed from Mr. MADISON. He did not think that, in certain contingencies, war was so distant a prospect. Simcoe is going to erect a fort in our territories, and the PRESIDENT has declared that he will repel the attempt. We all know the waste of time and property in the last war, at its commencement, by trying to do the business with militia. The proposal met his approbation, as did the resolution of the PRESIDENT to repel force by force.

Mr. FINDLAY spoke against the bill.

The question was then stated, to wit: "Shall the said bill be rejected?" and, after debate thereon, the question being taken, it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 50, nays 32.

Advance of Money to France.

Mr. PARKER then moved that the House take into consideration the bill for the payment of a certain sum of money to the French Republic.

The House resolved itself into a committee on this bill, Mr. PARKER in the chair.

Several amendments were proposed, and several members spoke.

Mr. GILES knew that Mr. Fauchet was anxious for this money, and spoke of it as necessary for his operations. He did not know whether to-day, to-morrow, or at what time in particular; but in fact the money was needed. He had another remark to make. This loan of three millions of florins had come upon all parts of the House alike unexpectedly. Before it was known, we heard of no particular complaints from the Treasury, for want of money to raise the fortifications. But now, when the loan was come, the tone was altered, and there was a loud cry of emptiness in the Treasury.

Mr. GILLON said, that gentlemen talked of giving this money, as if we were doing a favor to France. Is this so? We are sending a new ambassador to that country. A very pretty introduction truly he would have at Paris, with our credentials in one hand, and a refusal to pay the debts due to the Republic in the other. We have been in need of her assistance before, and we may want it again.

The committee made some amendments; the Chairman reported them, and the bill finally passed the House.

FRIDAY, June 5.

Protection of South-western Frontier.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to the bill, entitled "An act for the more effectual protection of the South-western frontier settlers."

Mr. GILES expressed the utmost surprise at such a proposal. First, it had been projected to raise a standing army of fifteen thousand men, then twenty-five thousand, then ten thousand; and now, when all these schemes had been put to an end, this regiment of eleven hundred and forty men has appeared. Proteus never assumed a greater number of shapes than this attempt has done. His jealousy was highly excited by such a steady adherence to an idea so extremely offensive. The people of the United States did not wish to be trodden down by a Continental army. How this amendment might sit on the stomachs of some people, he could not say; but, if he were one of the gentlemen who represented the people from whom the requisition for defence had come, the amendment of the Senate would sit very badly indeed upon his stomach.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, that a bill had been wanted to protect the frontiers, but, by this amendment, the bill would scourge them. He wondered at the pertinacity of some people, in adhering to the idea of a standing army. Mr. N. enlarged considerably on the question before the House.

Mr. MCDOWELL had lived long on the frontiers, and he believed that he understood, from personal experience, what was the proper mode of defending them, as well as perhaps any gentleman on that floor. He was against the amendment, because he knew, from repeated experiments, that regular troops were, in this kind of service, altogether useless. The militia of the frontiers, who knew the country, and whose habits of life made them perfectly acquainted with the character of the enemy whom they had to encounter, were the only proper forces to oppose the Indians with success. But why Government should burden itself with a useless expense, or the people with a kind of defence which they disliked, Mr. McD. did not know. Perhaps there was no part of the Union that had behaved so prudently and so pacifically as the citizens on the South-western frontiers. Yet Indian treaties were constantly broken by the savages themselves. Gentlemen who had never been witnesses to the scene, did not feel it, with adequate comprehension or sensibility. A man went to his corn-field, along with his son, who was shot dead by his side. He came home, and found his wife and the rest of his family murdered. Circumstances of this kind, and of which Mr. McD. drew an affecting picture, were too dreadful for human patience to support.

Mr. BOUDINOT thought that the militia could not be kept together for six months, and that it was better to have regular troops.

Mr. AMES replied to Mr. GILES. It was wrong to say that this was part of a system, and that the twenty-five thousand men had been part of it. He saw no such thing. We have one Indian war already, which is enough at a time. Those whom we are now to quarrel with, are three times more numerous than those to the North-west. The Creeks, Cherokees, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, were, as Mr. A. had been informed, fifteen thousand fighting men. He did not think that there were too many Indians on the frontier, any more than too many wild beasts. The one might, by skilful management, be rendered as harmless as the other. Even the success of an Indian war, by extending our frontier, augments the number of our enemies; so that the task is hopeless, and has no end. Distance from the seat of Government would increase, and with it the charges of defence. He was not one of those who wished to exterminate these poor creatures. He recommended a system of restraint on both sides. He could wish for something as strong as the Chinese wall to separate them. When an exasperated militia went out, what were we to expect, but that the first man with a red skin whom they met would be shot? Presently you discover that you have been shooting an Indian of the wrong nation, while, in the mean time, this whole nation rises and attacks you. The Continental troops, as being less exasperated, were less apt to fall into mistakes of this kind. He did not wish the militia to be called out in such numbers as were proposed by the bill when sent up to the Senate. He wished, if possible, for a restraint on both parties. He was for the amendment.

Mr. MURRAY was of the same opinion. It was not once in ten times that, when an Indian was killed by a white man, the murderer could be convicted. As to the standing army being an object of alarm, he ridiculed that idea. But, at any rate, it was possible to limit the operations of this regiment of eleven hundred and forty men to the South-western frontier, if gentlemen were afraid of their being marched up and down the country.

Mr. GILLON said, that there was something in this question, just like that some days since, about the galleys. If you do not want them, they shall not be forced upon you. He could not see their use in South Carolina. It was a body of militia that was wanted. There are no tumults in South Carolina to be repressed by a standing army. The expedition against Spain is knocked up. What occasion, then, can there be for them? He feared that this corps was only a part of the old leaven, the gilding of a bad pill He liked this proposal better than the others of the same sort, only because, as the numbers are inferior, the evils are less. Mr. G. had no idea of hiring other people to do for us what we can do for ourselves. He had voted against the twenty-five thousand men, and the ten thousand, and he should also vote against the present number.

Mr. MADISON said, that he would not enter at large into this subject, but there was one circumstance in the business which struck him as very strange. It was proposed to raise a new corps, at a bounty of twenty dollars. The present army wanted more than the whole number of this corps to fill up its deficiencies, and yet the proposal for completing them had been rejected. Thus are we to be at the expense of supporting the skeleton of an army. Was it not better to fill up the old corps, than to put ourselves to the inconvenience of raising a new one?

Mr. MCDOWELL rose to correct what had fallen from Mr. AMES, as to the strength of the Indian nations on the South-western frontier. The Choctaws and Chickasaws are, and always have been, friends to the white people, and ready to fight for them. The Creeks and Cherokees do not, at the most, extend to more than seven or eight thousand men.

Mr. CARNES.--The only use that Continental troops can be of is to defend posts; and it has been found, by the experience of several years, that posts do more mischief than service. They are established at a distance of fifteen or twenty miles from each other. The Indian parties slip in between them; and the frontier settlers, depending on the protection of the regulars, are not, as they otherwise would be, upon their guard against the savages. The consequence is, that they are frequently murdered; while the only service performed by the Continentals is, that when the militia pursue the Indians, they are prevented by the former from crossing what is called the line. That is the whole service which they have performed in Georgia. In short, against the Creeks, they are good for nothing. Mr. C. wished that gentlemen would frankly say, once for all, that the Georgians did not deserve protection, and then the State would know what was to be done. He insisted on it, that, in Georgia, there were improper leanings in favor of the Indians. He referred to some persons in office, whom he specified. He believed sincerely that the Senate imagined themselves to be acting for the best; but they could not be such competent judges as persons on the spot. Within the last seven years, there has not been a single instance of an Indian killed by a white man, unless when the Indians themselves began the quarrel. During the last ten or twelve years, there had been stolen from Georgia, horses to the amount of a hundred thousand dollars. These were often the chief property of poor people, who had nothing else to depend on for supporting their families. Gentlemen say that we have one Indian war already. But if you have two hands, both in the fire at once, will you pull out one before the other? The Creeks are a savage and faithless tribe. Some years ago, a treaty was made with them at New York; and this treaty cost, in presents, sixty-one thousand dollars. Well, before the chiefs got home, a fresh set of murders were committed. A set of commissioners were next sent, and this embassy cost perhaps a hundred and fifty thousand dollars more. Gentlemen might talk as they thought fit about Indians; for his own part, he would not give the life of one white man for those of fifty Indians. The militia had been always successful against them, and the regulars had always been beaten; this showed the futility of the present amendment from the Senate. Of the successes of the militia, he gave some striking instances, where they had defeated three or four times their own number. As an evidence of the improper leaning on behalf of the Indians, Mr. C. adverted to what had just happened in Georgia. A gang of savages stole some horses. Lieutenant Hay, with a party of dragoons, pursued them, and fell into an ambuscade, where Mr. Hay and two men were killed. This was the way that the Creeks kept a peace. Soon after, an Indian, being found in the State, was wounded; and in the correspondence read the other day to the House, it was so stated, as if the white people were to blame. It made every drop of blood in his heart boil, to hear what he heard in this city as to the character and conduct of his constituents. As a Representative of Georgia, he demanded effectual aid for that State. If the House did not choose to grant it, he warned them that the Georgians would take measures for themselves. It was needless to speak of economy, after squandering such vast sums as he had mentioned, in the purchase of treaties that were never kept. He was against the amendment of the Senate.

Mr. DAYTON rose to contradict one assertion, which had fallen from the gentleman, viz: that the regulars were always beaten by the Indians. If gentlemen exercised their memories, or attended to historical facts, they would see the contrary. General Sullivan had entered the country of the Six Nations, had defeated them, and destroyed their towns, and since that time they had been looked upon as a subdued people. Mr. D. was himself in the army on that expedition, and a witness to the success of the regulars. He was for the amendment.

The question was put that the House do concur with the Senate in the said amendment, and passed in the negative--yeas 26, nays 42, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Jonathan Dayton, George Dent, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, James Gordon, William Hindman, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and John Watts.

NAYS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac Coles, William J. Dawson, Henry Dearborn, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Alexander Gillon, Nicholas Gilman, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Joseph Neville, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Jeremiah Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Benjamin Williams, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.

Ordered, That the further consideration of the said amendments be put off till to-morrow.

SATURDAY, June 7.

Mr. THATCHER moved that such members as had received their pay up to Monday next, and then absented themselves, should be ordered next session to return as much as they had received for the days when absent. The motion was ordered to lie on the table.

MONDAY, June 9.

LEMUEL BENTON (from South Carolina) appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to him by Mr. SPEAKER, according to law.

Mr. BENTON (from South Carolina) informed the SPEAKER, that he had been prevented by indisposition in his family, and a long voyage, from attending his duty sooner in that House. This was the day of adjournment, and he wished to inform the House, that he should decline receiving pay for his travelling expenses, or attendance. He was not willing to qualify himself this day, unless it could be noted on the journals that he had refused any compensation. He took the oath.

A message from the Senate informed the House, that the Senate having completed the Legislative business before them, are now about to adjourn until the first Monday in November next: Whereupon, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House until the first Monday in November next.[51]

THIRD CONGRESS.--SECOND SESSION.

HELD IN THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, NOVEMBER 3, 1794.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.

MONDAY, November 3, 1794.

The following Senators appeared, and took their seats:

RALPH IZARD, President pro tem., from South Carolina.

JOHN LANGDON and SAMUEL LIVERMORE, from New Hampshire.

GEORGE CABOT, from Massachusetts.

OLIVER ELLSWORTH, from Connecticut.

THEODORE FOSTER, from Rhode Island.

MOSES ROBINSON, from Vermont.

RUFUS KING, from New York.

ROBERT MORRIS, from Pennsylvania.

JOHN BROWN, from Kentucky.

BENJAMIN HAWKINS, from North Carolina.

The number assembled not being sufficient to constitute a quorum to do business, the Senate adjourned to 11 o'clock to-morrow morning.

TUESDAY, November 4.

The Senate assembled: present as yesterday. JOHN VINING, from the State of Delaware, attended.

MONDAY, November 10.

The Senate assembled: present as on the 7th; and

JOHN ADAMS, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate, attended.

ALEXANDER MARTIN, from the State of North Carolina, and JAMES JACKSON, from the State of Georgia, severally attended.

The number assembled not being sufficient to constitute a quorum to do business, the Senate adjourned to 11 o'clock to-morrow morning.

TUESDAY, November 11.

The Senate assembled: present as yesterday; and WILLIAM BRADFORD, from the State of Rhode Island, attended.

MONDAY, November 17.

The Senate assembled: present as on Friday.

The number assembled not being sufficient to form a quorum, the VICE PRESIDENT was requested by the Senators present, to write a letter to each of the absent Senators, stating that a fortnight has already elapsed without the formation of a Senate, and urging their immediate attendance as necessary to enable Congress to commence the business of the session.

The Senate adjourned to 11 o'clock to-morrow morning.

TUESDAY, November 18.

AARON BURR, from New York, appeared to-day, which formed a quorum, and enabled the Senate to proceed to business.

Messages were accordingly exchanged between the two Houses, and a joint committee was appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, to inform him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and are ready to receive any communications that he may be pleased to make to them.

Mr. IZARD, from the joint committee appointed for the purpose, reported that the PRESIDENT would meet the two Houses in the Representatives' Chamber at 12 o'clock to-morrow.

WEDNESDAY, November 19.

JOHN EDWARDS, from Kentucky, this day attended.

The Senate agreeably to appointment attended in the House of Representatives, in order to receive the PRESIDENT's communications; and, on their return, the PRESIDENT's Speech was read, as follows:

Fellow-Citizens of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:

When we call to mind the gracious indulgence of Heaven, by which the American people became a nation; when we survey the general prosperity of our country, and look forward to the riches, power, and happiness, to which it seems destined; with the deepest regret do I announce to you, that, during your recess, some of the citizens of the United States have been found capable of an insurrection. It is due, however, to the character of our Government, and to its stability, which cannot be shaken by the enemies of order, freely to unfold the course of this event.

During the session of the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety, it was expedient to exercise the Legislative power, granted by the Constitution of the United States, "to lay and collect excises." In a majority of the States, scarcely an objection was heard to this mode of taxation. In some, indeed, alarms were at first conceived, until they were banished by reason and patriotism. In the four western counties of Pennsylvania, a prejudice, fostered and embittered by the artifice of men, who labored for an ascendency over the will of others, by the guidance of their passions, produced symptoms of riot and violence. It is well known, that Congress did not hesitate to examine the complaints which were presented; and to relieve them, as far as justice dictated, or general convenience would permit. But the impression which this moderation made on the discontented, did not correspond with what it deserved. The arts of delusion were no longer confined to the efforts of designing individuals. The very forbearance to press prosecutions was misinterpreted into a fear of urging the execution of the laws; and associations of men began to denounce threats against the officers employed. From a belief, that, by a more formal concert, their operation might be defeated, certain self-created societies assumed the tone of condemnation. Hence, while the greater part of Pennsylvania itself were conforming themselves to the acts of excise, a few counties were resolved to frustrate them. It was now perceived, that every expectation from the tenderness which had been hitherto pursued was unavailing, and that further delay could only create an opinion of impotency or irresolution in the Government. Legal process was therefore delivered to the Marshal against the rioters and delinquent distillers.

No sooner was he understood to be engaged in this duty, than the vengeance of armed men was aimed at his person, and the person and property of the Inspector of the Revenue. They fired upon the Marshal, arrested him, and detained him, for some time as a prisoner. He was obliged, by the jeopardy of his life, to renounce the service of other process, on the west side of the Alleghany Mountain; and a deputation was afterwards sent to him to demand a surrender of that which he had served. A numerous body repeatedly attacked the house of the Inspector, seized his papers of office, and finally destroyed by fire his buildings and whatsoever they contained. Both of these officers, from a just regard to their safety, fled to the seat of Government; it being avowed, that the motives to such outrages were to compel the resignation of the Inspector; to withstand by force of arms the authority of the United States; and thereby to extort a repeal of the laws of excise, and an alteration in the conduct of Government.

Upon the testimony of these facts, an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States notified to me that "in the counties of Washington and Alleghany, in Pennsylvania, laws of the United States were opposed, and the execution thereof obstructed, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the Marshal of that district." On this call, momentous in the extreme, I sought and weighed what might best subdue the crisis. On the one hand, the Judiciary was pronounced to be stripped of its capacity to enforce the laws; crimes, which reached the very existence of social order, were perpetrated without control; the friends of government were insulted, abused, and overawed into silence, or an apparent acquiescence; and, to yield to the treasonable fury of so small a portion of the United States would be to violate the fundamental principle of our constitution, which enjoins that the will of the majority shall prevail. On the other, to array citizen against citizen, to publish the dishonor of such excesses, to encounter the expense, and other embarrassments, of so distant an expedition, were steps too delicate, too closely interwoven with many affecting considerations, to be lightly adopted. I postponed, therefore, the summoning the militia immediately into the field; but, I required them to be held in readiness, that, if my anxious endeavors to reclaim the deluded, and to convince the malignant of their danger, should be fruitless, military force might be prepared to act, before the season should be too far advanced.

My Proclamation of the 7th of August last was accordingly issued, and accompanied by the appointment of commissioners, who were charged to repair to the scene of insurrection. They were authorized to confer with any bodies of men or individuals. They were instructed to be candid and explicit in stating the sensations which had been excited in the Executive, and his earnest wish to avoid a resort to coercion; to represent, however, that, without submission, coercion must be the resort; but to invite them, at the same time, to return to the demeanor of faithful citizens, by such accommodations as lay within the sphere of Executive power. Pardon, too, was tendered to them by the Government of the United States, and that of Pennsylvania, upon no other condition than a satisfactory assurance of obedience to the laws.

Although the report of the commissioners marks their firmness and abilities, and must unite all virtuous men, by showing that the means of conciliation have been exhausted, all of those who had committed or abetted the tumults did not subscribe the mild form which was proposed as the atonement; and the indications of a peaceable temper were neither sufficiently general nor conclusive to recommend or warrant the further suspension of the march of the militia.

Thus, the painful alternative could not be discarded. I ordered the militia to march--after once more admonishing the insurgents, in my Proclamation of the 25th of September last.

It was a task too difficult to ascertain with precision the lowest degree of force competent to the quelling of the insurrection. From a respect, indeed, to economy, and the ease of my fellow-citizens belonging to the militia, it would have gratified me to accomplish such an estimate. My very reluctance to ascribe too much importance to the opposition, had its extent been accurately seen, would have been a decided inducement to the smallest efficient numbers. In this uncertainty, therefore, I put into motion fifteen thousand men, as being an army which, according to all human calculation, would be prompt and adequate in every view, and might, perhaps, by rendering resistance desperate, prevent the effusion of blood. Quotas had been assigned to the States of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia; the Governor of Pennsylvania having declared, on this occasion, an opinion which justified a requisition to the other States.

Among the discussions which may arise from this aspect of our affairs, and from the documents which will be submitted to Congress, it will not escape their observation, that not only the Inspector of the Revenue, but other officers of the United States in Pennsylvania, have, from their fidelity in the discharge of their functions, sustained material injuries to their property. The obligation and policy of indemnifying them are strong and obvious. It may also merit attention, whether policy will not enlarge this provision to the retribution of other citizens, who, though not under the ties of office, may have suffered damage by their generous exertions for upholding the constitution and the laws. The amount, even if all the injured were included, would not be great; and, on future emergencies, the Government would be amply repaid by the influence of an example, that he who incurs a loss in its defence, shall find a recompense in its liberality.

While there is cause to lament that occurrences of this nature should have disgraced the name, or interrupted the tranquillity of any part of our community, or should have diverted, to a new application, any portion of the public resources, there are not wanting in real and substantial consolations for the misfortune. It has demonstrated, that our prosperity rests on solid foundations; by furnishing an additional proof, that my fellow-citizens understand the true principles of government and liberty; that they feel their inseparable union; that notwithstanding all the devices which have been used to sway them from their interest and duty, they are now as ready to maintain the authority of the laws against licentious invasions, as they were to defend their rights against usurpation. It has been a spectacle, displaying to the highest advantage the value of Republican government, to behold the most and the least wealthy of our citizens standing in the same ranks, as private soldiers, pre-eminently distinguished by being the army of the constitution; undeterred by a march of three hundred miles over rugged mountains, by the approach of an inclement season, or by any other discouragement. Nor ought I to omit to acknowledge the efficacious and patriotic co-operation which I have experienced from the Chief Magistrates of the States to which my requisitions have been addressed.

To every description of citizens, indeed, let praise be given. But let them persevere in their affectionate vigilance over that precious depository of American happiness, the Constitution of the United States. Let them cherish it, too, for the sake of those who, from every clime are daily seeking a dwelling in our land. And when, in the calm moments of reflection, they shall have retraced the origin and progress of the insurrection, let them determine whether it has not been fomented by combinations of men, who, careless of consequences, and disregarding the unerring truth that those who rouse cannot always appease a civil convulsion, have disseminated, from an ignorance or perversion of facts, suspicions, jealousies, and accusations, of the whole Government.

The intelligence from the army under the command of General Wayne is a happy presage to our military operations against the hostile Indians north of the Ohio. From the advices which have been forwarded, the advance which he has made must have damped the ardor of the savages, and weakened their obstinacy in waging war against the United States. And yet, even at this late hour, when our power to punish them cannot be questioned, we shall not be unwilling to cement a lasting peace, upon terms of candor, equity, and good neighborhood.

Towards none of the Indian tribes have overtures of friendship been spared. The Creeks, in particular, are covered from encroachment by the interposition of the General Government, and that of Georgia. From a desire, also, to remove the discontents of the Six Nations, a settlement meditated at Presqu'isle, on Lake Erie, has been suspended; and an agent is now endeavoring to rectify any misconception into which they may have fallen. But I cannot refrain from again pressing upon your deliberations the plan which I recommended at the last session, for the improvement of harmony with all the Indians within our limits, by the fixing and conducting of trading houses upon the principles then expressed.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

The time which has elapsed since the commencement of our fiscal measures has developed our pecuniary resources, so as to open the way for a definitive plan for the redemption of the public debt. It is believed that the result is such as to encourage Congress to consummate this work without delay. Nothing can more promote the permanent welfare of the nation, and nothing would be more grateful to our constituents. Indeed, whatsoever is unfinished of our system of public credit, cannot be benefited by procrastination; and, as far as may be practicable, we ought to place that credit on grounds which cannot be disturbed, and to prevent that progressive accumulation of debt, which must ultimately endanger all governments.

An estimate of the necessary appropriations, including the expenditures into which we have been driven by the insurrection, will be submitted to Congress.

G. WASHINGTON.

UNITED STATES, November 19, 1794.

Ordered, That Messrs. KING, ELLSWORTH, and IZARD, be a committee to report the draft of an Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech this day to both Houses of Congress.

THURSDAY, November 20.

Mr. KING, from the committee, reported an Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in reply to his Speech of the 19th to both Houses of Congress, which was read.

Ordered, That to-morrow be assigned to take this report into consideration.

FRIDAY, November 21.

The Senate took into consideration the report of the committee, in reply to the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to both Houses of Congress at the opening of the session; and it was agreed to consider the report in paragraphs.

On motion of Mr. BURR, seconded by Mr. JACKSON, to expunge these words:

"Our anxiety, arising from the licentious and open resistance to the laws in the western counties of Pennsylvania, has been increased by the proceedings of certain self-created societies, relative to the laws and administration of the Government; proceedings, in our apprehension, founded in political error, calculated, if not intended, to disorganize our Government, and which, by inspiring delusive hopes of support, have been influential in misleading our fellow-citizens in the scene of insurrection:"

It passed in the negative.

On motion to amend the paragraph respecting the army, under the command of General Wayne, to be read as follows:

"The pleasure with which we learn the success of the Western Army under the command of General Wayne, is enhanced by the hope, that their victories will lay the foundation of a just and durable peace with the Indian tribes:"

It passed in the negative.

On motion to strike out of the paragraph respecting the Western Army, the words, "General and," it passed in the negative.

And the several paragraphs reported by the committee being agreed to, the report was adopted, as follows:

SIR: We receive with pleasure your Speech to the two Houses of Congress. In it we perceive renewed proofs of that vigilant and paternal concern for the prosperity, honor, and happiness of our country, which has uniformly distinguished your past administration.

Our anxiety arising from the licentious and open resistance to the laws in the western counties of Pennsylvania, has been increased by the proceedings of certain self-created societies, relative to the laws and administration of the Government; proceedings, in our apprehension, founded in political error, calculated, if not intended, to disorganize our Government, and which, by inspiring delusive hopes of support, have been influential in misleading our fellow-citizens in the scene of insurrection.

In a situation so delicate and important, the lenient and persuasive measures which you adopted merit and receive our affectionate approbation. These failing to produce their proper effect, and coercion having become inevitable, we have derived the highest satisfaction from the enlightened patriotism and animating zeal with which the citizens of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia, have rallied around the standard of Government, in opposition to anarchy and insurrection.

Our warm and cordial acknowledgments are due to you, sir, for the wisdom and decision with which you arrayed the militia, to execute the public will; and to them, for the disinterestedness and alacrity with which they obeyed your summons.

The example is precious to the theory of our Government, and confers the brightest honor upon the patriots who have given it.

We shall readily concur in such farther provisions for the security of internal peace and a due obedience to the laws, as the occasion manifestly requires.

The effectual organization of the militia, and a prudent attention to the fortifications of our ports and harbors, are subjects of great national importance, and together with the other measures you have been pleased to recommend, will receive our deliberate consideration.

The success of the troops under the command of General Wayne cannot fail to produce essential advantages. The pleasure with which we acknowledge the merits of that gallant General and army, is enhanced by the hope that their victories will lay the foundation of a just and durable peace with the Indian tribes.

At a period so momentous in the affairs of nations, the temperate, just, and firm policy that you have pursued, in respect to foreign powers, has been eminently calculated to promote the great and essential interest of our country, and has created the fairest title to the public gratitude and thanks.

JOHN ADAMS,

_Vice President of the United States, and President of the Senate_.

Ordered, That the committee who prepared the Address wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and desire him to acquaint the Senate at what time and place it will be most convenient for him that it should be presented.

Mr. KING reported, from the committee, that they had waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and that he would receive the Address of the Senate to-morrow at 12 o'clock, at his own house.

SATURDAY, November 22.

The Senate waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and the VICE PRESIDENT, in their name, presented the Address agreed to on the 21st instant.

To which the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES was pleased to make the following reply:

Gentlemen:

Among the occasions which have been afforded for expressing my sense of the zealous and steadfast co-operation of the Senate, in the maintenance of Government, none has yet occurred more forcibly demanding my unqualified acknowledgments than the present.

Next to the consciousness of upright intentions, it is the highest pleasure to be approved by the enlightened Representatives of a free nation. With the satisfaction, therefore, which arises from an unalterable attachment to public order, do I learn, that the Senate discountenance those proceedings, which would arrogate the direction of our affairs, without any degree of authority derived from the people.

It has been more than once the lot of our Government to be thrown into new and delicate situations; and of these, the insurrection has not been the least important. Having been compelled at length to lay aside my repugnance to resort to arms, I derive much happiness from being confirmed by your judgment in the necessity of decisive measures, and from the support of my fellow-citizens of the militia, who were the patriotic instruments of that necessity.

With such demonstrations of affection for our constitution; with an adequate organization of the militia; with the establishment of necessary fortifications; with a continuance of those judicious and spirited exertions which have brought victory to our Western Army; with a due attention to public credit and an unsullied honor towards all nations; we may meet, under every assurance of success, our enemies from within and from without.

G. WASHINGTON.

The Senate returned to their own Chamber, and then adjourned.

MONDAY, November 24.

JOHN RUTHERFORD, from New Jersey, attended.

WEDNESDAY, November 26.

JOHN HENRY, from Maryland, and JAMES ROSS, from Pennsylvania, severally attended.

FRIDAY, November 28.

STEPHEN R. BRADLEY, from Vermont, and CALEB STRONG, from Massachusetts, severally attended.

TUESDAY, December 9.

RICHARD POTTS, from Maryland, attended to-day.

THURSDAY, December 11.

FREDERICK FRELINGHUYSEN, from New Jersey, attended.

MONDAY, December 15.

STEPHEN MIX MITCHELL, from Connecticut, attended to-day.

MONDAY, December 29.

HENRY TAZEWELL, appointed a Senator by the State of Virginia, in the place of JOHN TAYLOR, resigned, produced his credentials, which were read, and the VICE PRESIDENT administered to him the oath required by law, and he took his seat in the Senate.

FRIDAY, February 20.

The VICE PRESIDENT being absent, the Senate proceeded to the election of a PRESIDENT pro tempore, as the constitution provides, and SAMUEL LIVERMORE was duly elected; who, declining the appointment,

The Senate proceeded to the election of HENRY TAZEWELL to that office.

Ordered, That the Secretary wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him of the election of Mr. TAZEWELL to be PRESIDENT of the Senate pro tempore.

SATURDAY, February 28.

HENRY LATIMER, from the State of Delaware, in place of GEORGE READ, resigned, attended, and produced his credentials, which were read; and, the oath prescribed by law being administered, he took his seat in the Senate.

JAMES GUNN, from Georgia, attended.

TUESDAY, March 3.

Mr. BURR laid before the Senate a motion, as follows:

"Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, two-thirds of both Houses concurring, That the following article be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of the said Legislatures, shall be valid as part of the said constitution, to wit:

"That the term for which the members of the Senate and House of Representatives of the next Congress are or shall be chosen shall expire on the first day of June next following the third day of March, on which it would have expired if this amendment to the constitution had not been adopted."

Ordered, That this motion lie for consideration.

TUESDAY EVENING, March 3.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House, having finished the business of the session, are about to adjourn.

Ordered, That Messrs. IZARD and MORRIS be a committee, jointly, with such committee as the House of Representatives may appoint on their part, to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and inform him that Congress is ready to adjourn without day, unless he may have any further communications to make.

Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives therewith, and desire the appointment of a committee on their part.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House have appointed a joint committee on their part to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and inform him that Congress is ready to adjourn.

Mr. IZARD reported, from the joint committee, that they had waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, who informed them that he had no further communications to make to Congress during this session. Whereupon, it was

Resolved, That the Senate adjourn without day.

EXECUTIVE JOURNAL.

THE TENTH SESSION OF THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES, CONVENED ON

MONDAY, JUNE 8, 1795.

MONDAY, June 8, 1795.

Pursuant to a call from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in a circular addressed to the several Senators, informing each that "certain matters touching the public good required that the Senate should be convened on the above day, at the Senate Chamber, in Philadelphia, then and there to receive and deliberate on such communications as he shall then make to them:" the Senate assembled accordingly.

PRESENT. JOHN ADAMS, Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate.

From New Hampshire.--JOHN LANGDON and SAMUEL LIVERMORE.

From Massachusetts.--CALEB STRONG and GEORGE CABOT.

From Vermont.--MOSES ROBINSON.

From Connecticut.--OLIVER ELLSWORTH and JONATHAN TRUMBULL.

From Rhode Island.--THEODORE FOSTER and WILLIAM BRADFORD.

From New York.--RUFUS KING and ARRON BURR.

From New Jersey.--JOHN RUTHERFORD.

From Pennsylvania.--JAMES ROSS and WILLIAM BINGHAM.

From Delaware.--HENRY LATIMER.

From Maryland.--RICHARD POTTS.

From Virginia.--HENRY TAZEWELL and STEVENS THOMSON MASON.

From Kentucky.--JOHN BROWN and HUMPHREY MARSHALL.

From North Carolina.--ALEXANDER MARTIN and TIMOTHY BLOODWORTH.

From South Carolina.--JACOB READ.

From Georgia.--JAMES JACKSON.

Ordered, That Mr. STRONG and Mr. LANGDON be a committee to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may be pleased to make.

Mr. STRONG reported, from the committee, that they had waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and that he informed them he would make some communications to the Senate immediately.

TUESDAY, June 9.

PIERCE BUTLER, from the State of South Carolina, and FREDERICK FRELINGHUYSEN, from the State of New Jersey, severally attended.

JAMES GUNN, from the State of Georgia, produced his credentials, and, the usual oath being administered, took his seat in the Senate.

FRIDAY, June 12.

JOHN HENRY, from the State of Maryland, produced his credentials, and, the usual oath being administered, he took his seat in the Senate.

SATURDAY, June 13.

ELIJAH PAINE, from the State of Vermont, produced his credentials, and the usual oath being administered, he took his seat in the Senate.

MONDAY, June 15.

JOHN VINING, from the State of Delaware, attended.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the Treaty, communicated by the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, with his Message of the 8th instant: and, after progress, the Senate adjourned.

WEDNESDAY, June 17.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the Treaty, communicated with the Message of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, of the 8th instant, and after discussion on the remaining articles, a motion was made and seconded, that it he

"Resolved, (two-thirds of the Senate concurring therein,) That they do consent to, and advise the President of the United States, to ratify the Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, between His Britannic Majesty and the United States of America, concluded at London, the 19th day of November, 1794, on condition that there be added to the said Treaty an article whereby it shall be agreed to suspend the operation of so much of the 12th article as respects the trade which his said Majesty thereby consents may be carried on between the United States and his Islands in the West Indies, in the manner, and on the terms and conditions therein specified.

"And the Senate recommend to the President, to proceed, without delay, to further friendly negotiations with His Majesty, on the subject of the said trade, and of the terms and conditions in question."

On motion, it was agreed, that this motion lie for consideration until to-morrow.[52]

MONDAY, June 22.

The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a letter from the Secretary for the Department of State, with a "list of the negroes, to which the correspondence between the Commander-in-chief of the American Army and Sir Guy Carleton relates;" which was read, and, with the document referred to, ordered to lie on the table.

WEDNESDAY, June 24.

Deported Slaves of the Revolution.

A motion was made by Mr. GUNN, seconded by Mr. READ, as follows:

"Whereas it is alleged by divers American citizens, that negroes, and other property, to a considerable amount, were carried away, in contravention of the seventh article of the Treaty of Peace between the United States and His Britannic Majesty:

"Resolved, That the Senate recommend to the President of the United States, to renew, by friendly negotiation with his said Majesty, the claims of the American citizens, to compensation for the negroes and other property, so alleged to have been carried away; and in case the disagreement that has hitherto existed, relative to the construction in this behalf of the said article, cannot be removed by candid and amicable discussions, that it be proposed, as a measure calculated to cherish and confirm the good understanding and friendship which it is desired may prevail between the two countries, that commissioners be appointed, in the manner directed by the sixth article of the Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, lately concluded between the United States and his said Majesty, with authority to ascertain and decide, as well the interpretation of the said seventh article in this respect, as likewise the amount of the losses sustained by the alleged violation of the same.

"But the Senate are of opinion that the negotiation on this subject should be distinct from, and subsequent to that recommended by their act of the 24th instant, respecting the trade and intercourse between the United States and his said Majesty's islands in the West Indies."

And, after debate, it was agreed that this motion lie until to-morrow for consideration.

THURSDAY, June 25.

The motion made by Mr. GUNN, as last recited, and yesterday referred to this day for consideration, was resumed.

On motion to divide this motion, and to agree to all that is contained from the word "whereas," to the word "same," at the end of the first paragraph of the resolution inclusive, it passed in the affirmative--yeas 27, nay 1, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bloodworth, Bradford, Brown, Burr, Butler, Cabot, Ellsworth, Foster, Frelinghuysen, Gunn, Jackson, King, Langdon, Latimer, Livermore, Marshall, Martin, Paine, Potts, Read, Robinson, Boss, Rutherford, Strong, Trumbull, and Vining.

Mr. Tazewell voted in the negative.[53]

The yeas and nays were required by one-fifth of the Senators present.

Those who voted in the affirmative, are--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Butler, Cabot, Ellsworth, Foster, Frelinghuysen, Gunn, King, Latimer, Livermore, Paine, Potts, Read, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, Trumbull, and Vining.

These who voted in the negative, are--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Jackson, Langdon, Marshall, Martin, Mason, Robinson, and Tazewell.

Yeas 19, nays 10. So the question of reconsideration was lost, there not being two-thirds of the Senators present in the affirmative.

On motion, by Mr. RUTHERFORD, for the question on the resolution as amended, to wit:

"Whereas, it is alleged by divers American citizens, that negroes and other property, to a considerable amount, were carried away in contravention of the 7th article of the Treaty of Peace between the United States and His Britannic Majesty:

"Resolved, That the Senate recommend to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to renew, by friendly negotiation with his said Majesty, the claims of the American citizens to compensation for the negroes and other property so alleged to have been carried away; and in case the disagreement, that has hitherto existed relative to the construction in this behalf of the said article, cannot be removed by candid and amicable discussions, that it be proposed, as a measure calculated to cherish and confirm the good understanding and friendship which it is desired may prevail between the two countries, that commissioners be appointed in the manner directed by the 6th article of the Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation lately concluded between the United States and his said Majesty, with authority to ascertain and decide, as well the interpretation of the said 7th article, in this respect, as likewise the amount of the losses sustained by the alleged violation of the same."

It passed in the negative--yeas 14, nays 15, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Butler, Burr, Gunn, Jackson, Langdon, Marshall, Martin, Mason, Paine, Read, Robinson, and Tazewell.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Ellsworth, Foster, Frelinghuysen, King, Latimer, Livermore, Potts, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, Trumbull, and Vining.

FRIDAY, June 26.

Mr. CABOT reported that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES had no further communications to make to the Senate, than his hearty wishes that, in a speedy meeting with their friends, they may enjoy every felicity.

On motion,

Ordered, That there be paid by the Secretary of the Senate, out of the moneys appropriated for the contingent expenses of the Senate, to James Mathers, Doorkeeper, three dollars per day, and to Cornelius Maxwell, assistant Doorkeeper, two dollars per day, as compensation for their respective attendance during this special session of the Senate, over and above their stated allowance.

On motion, the Senate adjourned without day.

Attest:

SAM. A. OTIS, Secretary.

THIRD CONGRESS.--SECOND SESSION.

PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

IN

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

MONDAY, November 3, 1794.

The following members appeared, and took their seats, to wit:

From New Hampshire.--NICHOLAS GILMAN, JEREMIAH SMITH, and PAINE WINGATE.

From Massachusetts.--FISHER AMES, DAVID COBB, HENRY DEARBORN, DWIGHT FOSTER, BENJAMIN GOODHUE, SAMUEL HOLTEN, GEORGE THATCHER, PELEG WADSWORTH, and ARTEMAS WARD.

From Connecticut.--JOSHUA COIT, AMASA LEARNED, ZEPHANIAH SWIFT, URIAH TRACY, and JONATHAN TRUMBULL.

From Vermont.--ISRAEL SMITH.

From New York.--THEODORUS BAILEY, PHILIP VAN CORTLANDT, and JOHN WATTS.

From New Jersey.--JOHN BEATTY and ELIAS BOUDINOT.

From Pennsylvania.--THOMAS HARTLEY, JOHN WILKES KITTERA, FREDERICK A. MUHLENBERG, (Speaker,) and PETER MUHLENBERG.

From Maryland.--GABRIEL CHRISTIE and GEORGE DENT.

From Virginia.--ISAAC COLES, SAMUEL GRIFFIN, JOHN HEATH, JOSEPH NEVILLE, ANTHONY NEW, JOSIAH PARKER, and ROBERT RUTHERFORD.

From Kentucky.--CHRISTOPHER GREENUP.

From North Carolina.--THOMAS BLOUNT, WILLIAM JOHNSTON DAWSON, NATHANIEL MACON, and ALEXANDER MEBANE.

From South Carolina.--WILLIAM SMITH.

From Georgia.--ABRAHAM BALDWIN.

A quorum of the whole number not being present, the House adjourned until to-morrow.

TUESDAY, November 4.

Several other members, to wit: from Rhode Island, FRANCIS MALBONE; from New York, HENRY GLENN, JAMES GORDON, and JOHN E. VAN ALLEN; from New Jersey, JONATHAN DAYTON; from Pennsylvania, THOMAS FITZSIMONS; from Delaware, HENRY LATIMER; from Maryland, WILLIAM VANS MURRAY; from Virginia, GEORGE HANCOCK, RICHARD BLAND LEE, JAMES MADISON, ANDREW MOORE, FRANCIS PRESTON, and FRANCIS WALKER; and from North Carolina, MATTHEW LOCKE, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

And a quorum, consisting of a majority of the whole number, being present,

Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate, to inform them that a quorum of this House is assembled, and ready to proceed to business; and that the Clerk of this House do go with said message.

WEDNESDAY, November 5.

Several other members, to wit: from New Hampshire, JOHN S. SHERBURNE; from Massachusetts, WILLIAM LYMAN; from Connecticut, JAMES HILLHOUSE; from Vermont, NATHANIEL NILES; from New York, EZEKIEL GILBERT; from Maryland, WILLIAM HINDMAN; from Virginia, THOMAS CLAIBORNE; and from Georgia, THOMAS P. CARNES, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Notice was received that the Senate had not yet been able to form a quorum.

Upon this, Mr. DAYTON moved that a committee shall be appointed to examine the business left unfinished last session, and report to the House. He saw no reason for losing time by waiting for the Senate.

Mr. GOODHUE objected to the motion as improper.

Mr. DAYTON challenged the gentleman to point out wherein the impropriety consisted. For two or three weeks the House of Representatives would have full employment, while the Senate, in reality, had none. He was positive as to the legality and expediency of proceeding.

The SPEAKER put the question, and the ayes and noes were equal, each being twenty-five.

The SPEAKER then informed the House that, as a quorum of their number was not present, it would be requisite to adjourn.

The House rose immediately, after adjourning till to-morrow.

THURSDAY, November 6.

Two other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, PELEG COFFIN, and from Virginia, JOHN NICHOLAS, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

FRIDAY, November 7.

Several other members, to wit: from Pennsylvania, JAMES ARMSTRONG and WILLIAM MONTGOMERY; from Virginia, WILLIAM B. GILES; from North Carolina, JOSEPH WINSTON; and from South Carolina, JOHN HUNTER, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

On motion,

Resolved, That a Standing Committee of Elections be appointed, whose duty it shall be to examine and report upon the certificates of election, or other credentials of the members returned to serve in this House, and to take into their consideration all such matters as shall or may come in question, and be referred to them by the House, touching returns and elections, and to report their proceedings with their opinion thereupon, to the House.

And a committee was appointed of Mr. DAYTON, Mr. HILLHOUSE, Mr. SHERBURNE, Mr. DENT, Mr. LEE, Mr. MACON, and Mr. HUNTER.

Ordered, That the letter from the Governor of Maryland, together with the return of the election of Gabriel Duvall, to serve as one of the members of this House for the said State, in the room of JOHN FRANCIS MERCER, who has resigned his seat, which was laid before the House at the last session, be referred to the said Committee of Elections.

MONDAY, November 10.

Several other members, to wit: from New York, THOMAS TREDWELL; from New Jersey, LAMBERT CADWALADER; from Pennsylvania, JOHN SMILIE; from North Carolina, WILLIAM BARRY GROVE and JOSEPH MCDOWELL; and from South Carolina, RICHARD WINN, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

The SPEAKER informed the House that the Senate had not yet been able to make a quorum. Fifteen members only appeared. One more was necessary.

TUESDAY, November 11.

Two other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, SHEARJASHUB BOURNE, and from New York, PETER VAN GAASBECK, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

The SPEAKER informed the House that one Senator was yet wanting to the making of a quorum. [The Senate consists of thirty members, of whom only fifteen have yet (Tuesday) made their appearance; of consequence, a majority is wanting. The VICE PRESIDENT has, it is true, arrived, but he is not, strictly speaking, a Senator. He does not give a vote in questions that come before the Senate, unless the voices on a division are equal.]

The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from James White, enclosing the credentials of his appointment as a Representative of the territory of the United States, south of the river Ohio, in the Congress of the United States, according to the ordinance of Congress of the thirteenth of July, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven; which were read, and ordered to be referred to Mr. BALDWIN, Mr. GILBERT, Mr. WALKER, Mr. SWIFT, and Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH, with instructions to examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.

WEDNESDAY, November 12.

Another member, to wit, CARTER B. HARRISON, from Virginia, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

THURSDAY, November 13.

Two other members, to wit: ANDREW GREGG and DANIEL HEISTER, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

FRIDAY, November 14.

Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, SAMUEL DEXTER; from Virginia, ABRAHAM VENABLE; and from Kentucky, ALEXANDER D. ORR, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

MONDAY, November 17.

Two other members, to wit: from Rhode Island, BENJAMIN BOURNE, and from South Carolina, ANDREW PICKENS, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Delegate south of the Ohio.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the report of the committee to whom was referred the letter from JAMES WHITE, together with the credentials of his appointment as a Representative of the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio.

Mr. SWIFT objected to complying with the report of the committee. He thought that it could not be carried into execution, because it involved inconsistencies. If the object of the law referred to, was to admit this person to debate, and not to vote, that was unconstitutional. He was, by that law, to be a member of Congress; but the House of Representatives are not Congress, and, therefore, this person may equally vote in the House of Representatives and in the Senate; while, at the same time, he may interrupt the PRESIDENT consenting to a bill, by giving his advice. The constitution has made no provision for such a member as this person is intended to be. If we can admit a delegate to Congress or a member of the House of Representatives, we may with equal propriety admit a stranger from any quarter of the world. We may as well admit the gallery, or a foreign Minister, as this person from the territory south-west of the Ohio. At this rate, we may very soon overturn the constitution. If this person has any proper title to a seat, it must be in the Senate; it could not be in the House of Representatives, who were not delegates. The Senate, perhaps, might be called such. His election was nearer the mode of theirs, than that of this House.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) had no difficulty in declaring that the gentleman was fully qualified to take a seat in that House, by the terms of an express compact with the people. He was convinced that the Representatives have a right to admit those whom they regard as lawfully entitled to a seat in the House, for the purpose of debating. They may admit the Secretary of State, if they consider it as expedient. If this gentleman had applied to the Senate, that body also were authorized to admit him, if they thought it lawful. Under the old constitution, he would have been a member sui generis. He does not claim a right of voting, but of speaking only; and when the affairs of the South-western Territory were agitated in the Senate, he had a right, in his (Mr. S.'s) judgment, to speak and debate in that House also. Mr. S. wished that there had been previously settled another part of this business, viz: by whom the delegate was to be paid for his attendance. It may be a future question, also, whether he is to be dismissed when the galleries are cleared?

Mr. GILES was not prepared to speak on the subject. On the score of expediency, his present opinion was, that the delegate from the south-west of the Ohio should be admitted. He had no objection to the motion of the member from Maryland, (Mr. MURRAY,) for the committee rising, but he would never consent to it for the sake of consulting the Senate. He would agree to it, for the sake of further deliberation among themselves. If the House chose to consult the gallery--a resource for information that he should never wish to see adopted--they had a right to consult it, or to ask advice from any other quarter, notwithstanding the assertion of the gentleman from Connecticut.

Mr. DEXTER said, he thought the obstacle should be got over by a formal act of the Legislature. He was clear that the House had a right to consult or admit to the privilege of debating, any individual whom they thought proper. They might, for instance, admit an advocate to plead; in a particular case; but that was entirely a different matter from allowing him to give a vote on the question before the House. Mr. D. declared that he would vote against the report, as it now stands, not because he thought the gentleman from the South-western Territory unentitled to a seat, but because he regarded an act of the whole Legislature as a requisite for his introduction.

It was now moved that the committee should rise, and report the resolution of the select committee.

Mr. W. SMITH differed from Mr. DEXTER. He thought the House of Representatives was, in itself, perfectly competent to settle the point. He was determined that they ought not to consult the Senate upon the matter. It would be extremely improper to let the Senate interfere. He again adverted to his former position, that the House may, if it sees proper, introduce the Secretary of State to a privilege of being consulted, or any other person who may be thought suitable. But he would never submit to yield the privileges of the House to the Executive. They ought to decide their elections on their own authority, and on no occasion send to inquire of the Senate if such an amendment ought to be admitted. Mr. S. considered the gentleman (Mr. WHITE) as expressly within the present constitution. He trusted that the committee would not rise, under any such idea as consulting the Senate; but, if they at present rise, that it would be merely for the sake of obtaining further information.

Mr. MURRAY.--If we could have foreseen this case, I am sure that we should have had a joint committee of privileges from both Houses, as judges. The situation of the gentleman refers to both, and therefore the Senate ought to be consulted on this head. Perhaps he is entitled to a seat in both Houses.

Mr. MCDOWELL objected, that an act of the Legislature would never, practically, answer the purpose. The session would be next to ending, before such a law would be passed. In the mean time, the interest of the people south-west of the Ohio is agitated in a question, and their delegate is condemned to silence. The members generally admit, in substance, that he ought to be received into this House. He wished, therefore, that they would take a vote on the resolution of the select committee. He would object altogether to the proposal of the member from Maryland, for an act of the Legislature, or any consultation with, the Senate. Mr. MCD. was for admitting the member to his seat.

Mr. BOUDINOT observed, that it was universally agreed that the old law for accepting such a member as a delegate of Congress, cannot be executed in its full sense. The gentleman ought, in his opinion, to go where members elected by Legislatures went, that is to say, to the Senate. There was no pretence for his admission among the Representatives of the people. If he had any right, it must be in the other House. He thought this a very important question, and that it deserved more consideration than it had yet received. Mr. B. was not prepared to vote; but, if he was forced to give his voice at present, he should be for remitting the gentleman to the Senate. He thought that there should be an act of the whole Legislature. He should vote for the committee rising.

Mr. DAYTON said, that he should vote against the motion of the Maryland member, for the rising of the committee. He was against the object of this motion. He agreed entirely with the report of the select committee for receiving the south-western member immediately, as he had a right to a seat, founded on an original compact, which gave it to him. He objected to any concurrence of the Senate being asked. As to consulting persons out of doors, the House had a right to call Heads of Departments to give their opinions on any particular subject, if they thought proper. Mr. D. mentioned some cases of this nature, where such an expedient had been used.

Mr. GILES mentioned one reason against the committee rising, which was, that the House had no other business before it. He then read an amendment to the resolution of the select committee, as a middle course, that would embrace the ideas of all parties.

Mr. DEXTER repeated some of his former reasons for preferring an act of the Legislature.

The question was called for, and put by the Chairman, Shall the committee now rise, and report progress? It was decided in the negative--yeas 38, nays 39.

The question was then put on the resolution, as given by the committee. Mr. GILES again proposed his amendment. This was, that after the word "debating," in the resolution, there should be added, "upon any question touching the rights and interests of people in the territory of the United States south-west of the Ohio." The object was to narrow the power of the delegate.

Mr. SMILIE was for his being admitted to deliberate on every subject, or none at all.

Mr. GILES declared that he was very well pleased with the resolution, as it originally stood. He had only suggested this amendment that he might get the resolution through the House. He therefore withdrew his motion.

Mr. BALDWIN did not see that the question was of much importance. When a member was permitted to speak, but forbidden to vote, his situation was, no doubt, infinitely higher than that of strangers in the gallery, that of an advocate allowed to plead at the bar of the House, or that of a printer who came only to take notes; but still it was extremely short of the situation of a member of Congress. This would be more especially the case, if his right of debating was restricted to the affairs of the North-west and South-west Territory. Mr. B. could see nothing in the new constitution that made an exclusion of the delegate from the south-west of the Ohio. This privilege had been solemnly promised to those people, upon three different occasions. When they belonged to the State of South Carolina, they sent a Representative, Mr. SEVIER, to Congress; and they separated into a new State, under the promise of this privilege. But now, we have made a discovery, that these laws cannot be put into execution. It is a great pity that we had not made this discovery sooner. Mr. B. rejected all idea of referring this matter to the Senate. When the latter had any question of that kind, that concerned themselves, they would, no doubt, judge for themselves, and that just as properly as the House of Representatives. As to the pay of this gentleman, that might be an after question. He was clear that there at present existed no law which could make out that. The House may hereafter, if they see fit, pass a law respecting it. But, in the mean time, Mr. B. was satisfied that these people had a claim for a delegate, which could not be got rid of by the House.

Mr. SWIFT thought that it would be better to erect these people into a new State, and then the privilege would be of some real use to them. He was still of opinion that the constitution admits of no such delegate as this person is intended to be. He is a new kind of character, unknown to it. This person is sui generis. If the constitution knows any thing about him, then take him; if not, reject him. As to taking advice from the gallery, Mr. S. seemed to think he had been misunderstood. To admit a person within the bar for the purpose of consulting him, was a quite different thing from permitting the gallery, like this person, to come and take a permanent seat among the members, for the purpose of regularly debating. Mr. S. never meant to debar the House from taking information wherever they could find it.

Mr. MURRAY was concerned that he found himself obliged to vote against the resolution of the Committee of the Whole. He still hoped that the gentleman would have a seat, but that the Senate would first be consulted.

Mr. WINGATE moved an amendment to take the resolution, by adopting these words, "to a seat in Congress, as a delegate to Congress."

Mr. MADISON said, that the resolution, as passed by the select committee, was so properly expressed, that he did not believe it could admit of any amendment or alteration whatever.

The Committee of the whole House then divided on the resolution, when there appeared a very large majority in favor of reporting it as it first stood, and consequently for admitting Mr. WHITE as a delegate. The committee then rose.

TUESDAY, November 18.

Another member, to wit, THEODORE SEDGWICK, from Massachusetts, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Delegate south of the Ohio.

The House proceeded to consider the report of the committee on the letter from JAMES WHITE, enclosing the credentials of his appointment as a Representative of the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio; to which the Committee of the whole House reported no amendment. Whereupon, the said report being again read at the Clerk's table, was, on the question put thereupon, agreed to by the House, as follows:

"That, by the ordinance for the government of the territory of the United States north-west of the river Ohio, section nine, it is provided, "that, so soon as there shall be five thousand free male inhabitants of full age in the district, upon giving proof thereof to the Governor, they shall receive authority to elect Representatives to represent them in a General Assembly;" and by the 12th section of the Ordinance, "as soon as a Legislature shall be formed in the District, the Council and House, assembled in one room, shall have authority, by joint ballot, to elect a delegate to Congress, who shall have a seat in Congress, with a right of debating but not of voting, during this temporary government." Full effect is given to this Ordinance by act of Congress, August 7, 1789.

"That, by the Deed of Cession of the territory south of the river Ohio, to the United States, in the fourth article, it is also provided 'that the inhabitants of the said territory shall enjoy all the privileges, benefits, and advantages, set forth in the Ordinance of the late Congress for the government of the Western Territory; that is to say, Congress shall assume the government of the said territory, which they shall execute in a manner similar to that which they support in the territory west of the Ohio, and shall never bar or deprive them of any privilege which the people in the territory west of the Ohio enjoy.'

"The cession, on these conditions, was accepted by act of Congress, on the 2d of April, 1790.

"By an act passed the 26th of May, 1790, for the government of the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio, it is enacted, 'that the inhabitants shall enjoy all the privileges, benefits, and advantages, set forth in the Ordinance of the late Congress for the government of the territory of the United States north-west of the river Ohio. And the government of the said territory south of the river Ohio, shall be similar to that which is now exercised in the territory north-west of the river Ohio; except so far as is otherwise provided in the conditions expressed in an act of Congress of the present session, entitled 'An act to accept a cession of the claim of the State of North Carolina to a certain district of Western Territory.' The committee are of opinion that James White has been duly elected as delegate from the territory of the United States south of the Ohio, on the terms of the foregoing acts; they therefore submit the following resolution:

"Resolved, that James White be admitted to a seat in this House as a delegate from the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio, with a right of debating but not of voting."

Mr. MADISON said, that in new cases there often arose a difficulty by applying old names to new things. The proper definition of Mr. WHITE is to be found in the laws and rules of the constitution. He is not a member of Congress, therefore, and so cannot be directed to take an oath, unless he chooses to do it voluntarily.

Mr. MURRAY moved that Mr. WHITE should be required to take the oath.

Mr. W. SMITH observed, that the constitution only required members and the Clerk to take the oath. The gentleman was not a member. It does not even appear for what number of years he is elected. In fact he is no more than an envoy to Congress. Instead of being called delegate to Congress, had he been plainly called an envoy, the difficulty would have vanished. He is not a Representative from, but an officer deputed by the people of the Western Territory. It is very improper to call on this gentleman to take such an oath, any more than any civil officer in the State of Pennsylvania. Mr. S. did not consider him as coming even within the Post Office law, (viz: for franking letters.) He is not entitled to pay, unless a law shall be passed for that end.

Mr. GILES agreed with the gentleman who spoke last as to the impropriety of demanding an oath.

Mr. LYMAN was for it.

Mr. DAYTON was against the oath. Call him what you will, a member, a delegate, or, if you please, a nondescript. It would be wrong to accept his oath, even if he should offer it. He is not a member. He cannot vote, which is the essential part. It is said that he can argue, and by that means influence the votes of the House. But so also a printer may be said to argue and influence, when he comes to this House, takes notes, and prints them in the newspapers.

Mr. BOUDINOT.--As the House had set out on a wrong principle, it was natural that, in their subsequent progress they should wander further and further from the point. But, as the House had now given their decision, he acquiesced in it. It was, however, a strange kind of thing to have a gentleman here arguing, who was not bound by an oath. He never could reconcile it.

Several other members spoke.

The House divided on the question, "Shall the delegate take an oath as a member?" Ayes 32, noes 42--majority against the motion, 10.

Ordered, That a committee be appointed to bring in a bill extending the privilege of franking to JAMES WHITE, the delegate from the South-western Territory, and making provision for his compensation; and that Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, Mr. THATCHER, and Mr. MACON, be the said committee.

WEDNESDAY, November 19.

Another member, to wit, THOMAS SCOTT, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate to inform them that this House is now ready to attend them in receiving the communication from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, agreeably to his notification to both Houses yesterday; and that the Clerk of this House do go with the said message.

The Senate attended and took seats in the House; when, both Houses being assembled, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES came into the Representatives' Chamber, and delivered his Address to them. (For which see Proceedings of the Senate.)

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES then withdrew and the two Houses separated.

Ordered, that the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to both Houses be committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

THURSDAY, November 20.

Another member, to wit, WILLIAM FINDLAY, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

MONDAY, November 24.

Answer to the President's Speech.[54]

Mr. NICHOLAS then rose in defence of Mr. MADISON's amendment. He thought the House should not bow so much to the Executive as to approve of his proceedings without knowing what they are. Gentlemen say that they do not mean an implicit approbation. Why, then, hazard words that infer it? He would go as far in thanking the PRESIDENT as any person with propriety could go.

Mr. SEDGWICK insisted that the amendment of the member from Connecticut (Mr. HILLHOUSE) was preferable to the other. The PRESIDENT has said that his policy in regard to foreign nations is founded on justice. We approve of that. He recites his motives. They are also approved. Where, then, is the danger of expressing a general approbation? Would it be proper to give an approbation that cannot be appropriate, and that has no definite meaning? Mr. S. was far from designing to approve, explicitly or implicitly, what the House were not acquainted with. He only intended to convey a general sentiment of approbation; and he saw nothing more than this in the amendment of the gentleman from Connecticut.

Mr. HILLHOUSE never designed indiscriminate approbation; nor had he any secret meaning couched under the words of his amendment. When he had any thing to say to the House, he came honestly and told them in plain words what he would be at. He meant to express his applause of pacific and equitable measures. As to the question so often referred to, (the embassy of Mr. Jay,) he solemnly declared that it never was in his mind to express any thing about it. It would come before another body.

Mr. MADISON imagined that, in his motion as now worded, every person might see substantial approbation.

Mr. AMES.--Jealousy may become habitual as well as confidence. Nothing but a habit of jealousy could have found any thing of a secret in this verbal distinction of your policy instead of a policy. The distinction was trifling, but, if there must be one, he preferred the amendment of Mr. HILLHOUSE. His reasons for this preference were so minute that they, perhaps, had little more value than what his imagination chose to give them. In the mean time, nobody will suppose that we do not approve of the policy of the PRESIDENT in preferring pacific measures, because the system of peace is now preferred all over the Continent of America.

Mr. DAYTON rose to make a reply to "remarks so illiberal."

Mr. AMES here rose again and said that the gentleman certainly could not mean him.

I mean that gentleman, Mr. SPEAKER, said Mr. DAYTON, pointing to Mr. AMES. He has accused me of "habits of jealousy." To this charge Mr. D. rejoined with some warmth. He again declared that he never would pledge himself to approve of the mission of Mr. Jay, till he should learn what were that gentleman's instructions. He meant to draw this line of distinction, to give approbation of general principles, but not of particular measures. The former he considered as implied in the amendment of Mr. MADISON, the latter in that of Mr. HILLHOUSE.

Mr. VANS MURRAY considered the dispute as resting on the words a policy and your policy. He would not give explicit approbation to particular measures, but he approved the general principles on which the PRESIDENT preferred a pacific system.

Mr. GILES.--It is admitted on all sides of the House, that we approve the general principles, but will not pledge ourselves to approve the particular means. It is best, then, to adopt the least equivocal words. Mr. G. allowed that there was but little difference, yet he should vote for the amendment of Mr. MADISON as it stood.

Mr. DEXTER, in opposition to the sentiments of the gentleman who had last sat down, would vote for "your policy," instead of "a policy." The latter made the sentence an abstract proposition. The words "your policy," made it a personal application. The omission of the word your tended to an implication of censure. If an abstract proposition was the whole meaning intended to be expressed, that meaning might as well be put into any other place as into an Address to the PRESIDENT. He did not see the use of it. Praise (said Mr. D.) is the only reward which a person receives in a Republican Government; or at least, it is the greatest reward; and if withheld where due, the effect must be pernicious. Here it would be of more particular impropriety to withhold praise, when all our constituents approve the pacific policy of the PRESIDENT. It would have been a matter of little consequence at first, whether "a policy" or "your policy" had been adopted, for every reader would have understood it as an approbation of the PRESIDENT. But now, after such a debate, if we scruple at the word your, all the world will conclude that we mean an implied censure.

Mr. BOUDINOT said that he adopted the word your as unequivocal. He had no meaning but what was open and candid. By adopting the amendment the House would make that language explicit, which was at present, at least in some degree, ambiguous.

Mr. TRACY pronounced an elegant panegyric on the character and conduct of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, whom no man admired more sincerely than he did, though he could not speak thus from the honor of enjoying a personal acquaintance. He recommended to Mr. MADISON rather to withdraw his motion of amendment altogether than bring it forward at such an expense of the good temper of the House. The present session had commenced with good auspices, and much cordiality, and he would be extremely sorry to disturb its tranquillity.

Mr. MADISON said that he felt sensibly the force of the remarks made by the gentleman who was last up. In consequence of these remarks, he should be happy to withdraw his amendment. This was accordingly done.

It was then proposed that the Committee of the whole House should rise, and report the draft of the Address as originally given in by the special committee, with the additional amendment that had been proposed by Mr. DAYTON, and adopted.

Mr. FITZSIMONS then rose and said, that it would seem somewhat incongruous for the House to present an Address to the PRESIDENT which omitted all notice of so very important an article in his Speech as that referring to the self-created societies. Mr. F. then read an amendment, which gave rise to a very interesting debate. The amendment was in these words:

"As part of this subject, we cannot withhold our reprobation of the self-created societies, which have risen up in some parts of the Union, misrepresenting the conduct of the Government, and disturbing the operation of the laws, and which, by deceiving and inflaming the ignorant and the weak, may naturally be supposed to have stimulated and urged the insurrection."

These are "institutions, not strictly unlawful, yet not less fatal to good order and true liberty; and reprehensible in the degree that our system of government approaches to perfect political freedom."

Mr. GILES stated at large his sentiments as to this expression in the Speech of the PRESIDENT about self-created societies. The tone of that passage in the Speech had made a great deal of noise without doors, and it was likely to produce a considerable agitation within doors. [Here a motion was made for the rising of the committee.] Mr. G. did not wish to press himself upon the attention of the committee, but if they were disposed to hear him, he was prepared to proceed.

Mr. SEDGWICK objected to the rising of the committee. The House had been often entertained and informed by the ingenuity of that gentleman, who was now prepared to address them.

Mr. W. SMITH considered it as opposite to the practice of the House for a member to move that a committee should rise, at the very time when gentlemen had declared themselves ready to deliver their sentiments.

[It was repeatedly inquired from the Chair, by whom this motion was made. No answer was given and it seemed to be the unanimous wish of the House that Mr. GILES should proceed, which he did.] Mr. G. began by declaring that, when he saw, or thought he saw, the House of Representatives about to erect itself into an office of censorship, he could not sit silent. He did not rise with the hope of making proselytes, but he trusted that the fiat of no person in America should ever be taken for truth, implicitly, and without evidence.

Mr. GILES next entered into an encomium of some length on the public services and personal character of the PRESIDENT. He vindicated himself from any want of respect or esteem towards him. He then entered into an examination of the propriety of the expression employed by the PRESIDENT, with regard to self-created societies. Mr. G. said, that there was not an individual in America, who might not come under the charge of being a member of some one or other self-created society. Associations of this kind, religious, political, and philosophical, were to be found in every quarter of the Continent. The Baptists and Methodists, for example, might be termed self-created societies. The people called the Friends, were of the same kind. Every pulpit in the United States might be included in this vote of censure, since, from every one of them, upon occasion, instructions had been delivered, not only for the eternal welfare, but likewise for the temporal happiness of the people. There had been other societies in Pennsylvania for several purposes. The venerable Franklin had been at the head of one, entitled a society for political information. They had criminated the conduct of the Governor of this State and of the Governors of other States, yet they were not prosecuted or disturbed. There was, if he mistook not, once a society in this State, for the purpose of opposing or subverting the existing constitution. They also were unmolested. If the House are to censure the Democratic societies, they might do the same by the Cincinnati Society. It is out of the way of the Legislature to attempt checking or restraining public opinion. If the self-created societies act contrary to law, they are unprotected, and let the law pursue them. That a man is a member of one of these societies will not protect him from an accusation for treason, if the charge is well founded. If the charge is not well founded, if the societies, in their proceedings, keep within the verge of the law, Mr. G. would be glad to learn what was to be the sequel? If the House undertake to censure particular classes of men, who can tell where they will stop? Perhaps it may be advisable to commence moral philosophers, and compose a new system of ethics for the citizens of America. In that case, there would be many other subjects for censure, as well as the self-created societies. Land-jobbing, for example, has been in various instances brought to such a pass that it might be defined swindling on a broad scale. Paper money, also, would be a subject of very tolerable fertility for the censure of a moralist. Mr. G. proceeded to enumerate other particulars on this head, and again insisted on the sufficiency of the existing laws for the punishment of every existing abuse. He observed, that gentlemen were sent to this House, not for the purpose of passing indiscriminate votes of censure, but to legislate only. By adopting the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS, the House would only produce recrimination on the part of the societies, and raise them into much more importance than they possibly could have acquired if they had not been distinguished by a vote of censure from that House. Gentlemen were interfering with a delicate right, and they would be much wiser to let the Democratic societies alone. Did the House imagine that their censure, like the wand of a magician, would lay a spell on these people? It would be quite the contrary, and the recrimination of the societies would develope the propriety of having meddled with them at all. One thing ought never to be forgotten, that if these people acted wrong, the law was open to punish them; and if they did not, they would care very little for a vote of that House. Why all this particular deviation from the common line of business to pass random votes of censure? The American mind was too enlightened to bear the interposition of this House, to assist either in their contemplations or conclusions on this subject. Members are not sent here to deal out applauses or censures in this way. Mr. G. rejected all aiming at a restraint on the opinions of private persons. As to the societies themselves, Mr. G. personally had nothing to do with them, nor was he acquainted with any of the persons concerned in their original organization.

Mr. LYMAN hoped that the member from Pennsylvania would, upon reflection, withdraw his amendment. Mr. L. considered it to be as improper to pass a vote of censure, as it would be to pass a vote of approbation. He did not wish to give printers an opportunity of publishing debates that had better be suppressed. Besides, where will this business of censorship end? It would be much better not to meddle with the Democratic societies at all. Some of them were perfectly sensible that they had gone too far. He should, therefore, move that this committee do now rise, and that the Chairman report the Address as it now stands.

Mr. THATCHER hoped that his colleague would not insist on taking that question just now, before other gentlemen had an opportunity of delivering their sentiments.

Mr. LYMAN, in reply, said that gentlemen were at liberty, in discussing his motion, to tell their minds as to the self-created societies.

Mr. SEDGWICK requested that Mr. LYMAN would take this motion out of the way. Mr. L. withdrew it.

Mr. W. SMITH then rose, and entered at large into the subject. He said, that if the committee withheld an expression of their sentiments in regard to the societies pointed out by the PRESIDENT, their silence would be an avowed desertion of the Executive. He had no scruple to declare that the conduct of these people had tended to blow up the insurrection. Adverting to Mr. GILES, he thought the assertion of that gentleman too broad, when he spoke of not meddling with the opinions of other than political societies.

He considered the dissemination of improper sentiments as a suitable object for the public reprobation of that House. Suppose an agricultural society were to establish itself, and under that title to disseminate opinions subversive of good order; the difference of a name should not make Mr. S. think them exempted from becoming objects of justice. Would any man say that the sole object of self-created societies has been the publication of political doctrines? The whole of their proceedings has been a chain of censures on the conduct of Government. If we do not support the PRESIDENT, the silence of the House will be interpreted into an implied disapprobation of that part of his Speech. He will be left in a dilemma. It will be said that he has committed himself.

Mr. S. declared that he was a friend to the freedom of the press; but would any one compare a regular town-meeting where deliberations were cool and unruffled, to these societies, to the nocturnal meetings of individuals, after they have dined, where they shut their doors, pass votes in secret, and admit no members into their societies, but those of their own choosing? Mr. S., by way of illustration, observed, that this House had never done much business after dinner. In objection to this amendment it had been stated, that the self-created societies would acquire importance from a vote of censure passed on them. They were, for his part, welcome to the whole importance that such a vote could give them. He complained, in strong terms, of the calumnies and slanders which they had propagated against Government. Every gentleman who thought that these clubs had done mischief, was by this amendment called upon to avow his opinion. This was the whole. Mr. S. begged the House to take notice, and he repeated his words once or twice, that he did not mean to go into the constitution of these societies, or to say that they were illegal. The question before the House was not whether these societies were illegal or not, but whether they have been mischievous in their consequences.

Mr. MCDOWELL was of opinion that the term self-created societies, was too indefinite. He professed the highest respect for the character of the PRESIDENT; but he did not think that the proposed vote of censure would be any eligible proof of it. The House of Representatives were assembled not to volunteer in passing votes of reprobation on societies, or individuals, but to legislate. He wished that gentlemen, instead of losing their time on such frivolous and inflammatory amendments, would proceed to the proper business of the House. The gentleman from South Carolina seemed to be well acquainted with Democratic societies. It was very true that they had published resolutions reprobating the assumption business, and the system of funding; but the rest of the people, as well as Democratic societies, had very generally censured the assumption and the funding transactions. He thought that some laws had been passed which answered no good purpose, nor indeed any purpose, but that of irritating the public. The present amendment he considered as destructive not only to the intercourse of domestic society, but that it involved a prospect of throwing restraint upon the conduct of gentlemen in the House of Representatives. With the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. GILES,) he was satisfied that the amendment, if adopted, would have no weight whatever with the citizens of the United States; as they were too enlightened to accept of opinions from their Representatives.

Mr. TRACY had imagined that no man would have the hardihood to come forward in that House and vindicate these societies. He quoted from the remarks of Mr. MCDOWELL, the words, "your wanton laws, begotten in darkness, first raised insurrection;" and likewise some other words about the enormous expense of millions for the Western expedition. Mr. T., after reading these expressions from a memorandum, which he held in his hand, declared his surprise, that a gentleman, whom he knew to possess the candor and good sense of the member from North Carolina, could suffer such language to escape him. He was certain that the gentleman, if he had not been somewhat in a hurry, never would have permitted those words to pass from his lips.

Quitting this topic, Mr. T. said, that he would, for his own part, be disposed to let these societies alone, and leave them to the chastisement of their own consciences. If they were to say, "Gentlemen, you, as tyrants, make laws, and slaves obey them," I would answer, said Mr. T., "It is very rash. Think again before you say this again. We believe that, from inadvertency, some things have escaped from Democratic societies, which they had not well weighed, and which had a bad effect on weak and ignorant people in the western counties of Pennsylvania. You have seen the bad effects of your temerity. Take care before you publish any such thing again." Mr. T. said, this is all the length which we mean to go, and can any body object to this? The Democratic societies form but a very small portion of the people of America. Where is the harm in saying that one-hundredth, or, I believe I might say, not more than one-thousandth part of the citizens of the United States have been mistaken, and that they have been imprudent in printing certain indiscreet resolutions? Mr. T. declared that if the PRESIDENT had not spoke of the matter, he should have been willing to let it alone, because whenever a subject of that kind was touched, there were certain gentlemen in that House who shook their backs, like a sore-backed horse, and cried out, The Liberties of the people! Mr. T. wished only that the House, if their opinion of these societies corresponded with that of the PRESIDENT, should declare that they had such an opinion. This was quite different from attempting to legislate on the subject. Has not the Legislature done so before? Is there any impropriety in paying this mark of respect to a man to whom all America owes such indelible obligations? He thought that this declaration from the House of Representatives would tend to discourage Democratic societies, by uniting all men of sense against them. Mr. T. said, that perhaps the member who spoke last might be connected with some of these societies, of which he entertained so favorable an impression.

Mr. MCDOWELL said, that he wanted the House to avoid quarrels, and to mind their proper business of legislation. He declared that he was not a member of any such society. He did not know that he had ever been in the company of any person who was a member of any of them. He was even, he declared upon his honor, ignorant whether there were, or ever had been, any such societies in North Carolina. He adverted to the simile of the sore-backed horse, and said that he believed his back to have been rubbed harder in the last war, than that of the gentleman. He imagined that these societies had done both good and harm, and again declared, that he could not consent to a vote of indiscriminate reprobation.

Mr. DAYTON was heartily for the amendment. He observed that he wanted no evidence to satisfy him, as to the gentleman not being a member of any of these societies. If he had been connected with them, he would have known their principles better than he seems to do. Mr. D. said that many persons in New Jersey, who had been the most violent against the excise law were equally so against the insurgents; and though their opinion of the law itself was unaltered, which they made no scruple of openly declaring, yet they did not, on that account, hesitate about marching against the insurgents. They did not suppose that one obnoxious statute was any reason for overturning the Federal Constitution. The murmurs against the excise law in New Jersey had been converted into universal silence, because no man would venture to express his discontent, at the hazard of being suspected of being a friend to the insurgents. That the Democratic societies had produced the most mischievous effects in the western counties there could be no question. Letters had been received from officers in the army, who were the most respectable characters, and who, from authentic information, had affirmed the fact. It had been stated that these people would recriminate upon the House, and it had even been hinted that their recriminations might affect the PRESIDENT. That man, said Mr. D., is above their censure. He believed that if their censures had any effect at all, it would be to do the PRESIDENT honor.

Mr. NICHOLAS.--When we see an attempt made in this House to reprobate whole societies, on account of the conduct of individuals, it may truly be suspected that some of the members of this House have sore backs. The PRESIDENT has been apprised of the absurdity of making this a Legislative business. Here Mr. N. read a passage from the PRESIDENT's Speech, to show, that the notice taken of self-created societies was not intended for a topic of discussion in that House. The passage was expressly addressed to every description of citizens:

"And when in the calm moments of reflection, they shall have retraced the origin and progress of the insurrection, let them determine, whether it has been fomented by combinations of men, who, careless of consequences," &c.

Was this an address to the two Houses? Did this passage show that the PRESIDENT wanted them to intermeddle? Were they called upon to give an opinion? Where could be the pretence for any thing of this sort? The House have made acts. The Democratic societies reprobate them, and then the House reprobate the Democratic societies. When you first cut a man's throat, and thereafter call him a rascal, do you suppose that your accusation will affect the man's reputation? The House, by passing this vote of censure, would make themselves a party, and lose a title to unsuspected confidence. Mr. N. declared, that, for his own part, he never had any concern with these societies, nor ever to his knowledge had spent an hour with any person who was a member of them. He rather, if any thing, despised them. He had always thought them the very worst advocates for the cause which they espoused; but he had come two hundred miles to legislate, and not to reprobate private societies. He was not paid by his constituents for doing business of that sort. The PRESIDENT knew the business of the House better than to call for any such votes of censure. It was wrong to condemn societies for particular acts. That there never should be a Democratical society in America, said Mr. N., I would give my most hearty consent; but I cannot agree to persecution for the sake of opinions. With respect either to the propriety or the power of suppressing them, Mr. N. was in both cases equally of opinion that it was much better to let them alone. They must stand or fall by the general sentiments of the people of America. Is it possible that these societies can exist, for any length of time, when they are of no real use to the country? No. But this amendment will make the people at large imagine that they are of consequence.

Mr. DAYTON said, that these societies had produced the Western insurrection, and, therefore, the committee were just as well entitled to institute an inquiry in this case, as formerly regarding the failure of the expedition of General St. Clair.

The committee now rose, and reported progress, and had leave to sit again.

TUESDAY, November 25.

Another member, to wit, JAMES GILLESPIE, from North Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

The President's Speech.

The House again went into Committee of the Whole on the Address of the PRESIDENT and the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS, Mr. COBB in the chair.

Mr. MURRAY said, that he did not altogether like the wording of the amendment now before the House. He had hoped that some modification of it would have been prepared by some of its friends; but as none was offered, and there was a call for the question, he would vote for it rather than against it. He said, that he had not been personally attacked by any of the tribunals in question, and no further injured by their machinations than as he was a citizen of a free Republic in whose prosperity he felt the closest possible union, and in whose calamities he of course felt great sympathy. Among the various sources of the late calamity, the PRESIDENT had traced and designated certain self-created societies, who had arrogated the management of public opinions and affairs, and whom he had declared to have been, in his opinion, instrumental in fomenting the late insurrection. Mr. M. confessed that he had feared, last winter, lest the disorganizing spirit which had gone abroad in the shape of resolutions from these societies, would have produced the effect ascribed to them by the PRESIDENT. The conduct of the Democratic clubs, or those of them with which he had most acquaintance, appeared to him to have been instrumental to an event which threatened destruction to legitimate government. If we believe this to be the case, Mr. M. knew no motive, duty, or policy, which ought to restrain us at this period from saying that we believe it, and from lamenting it. Our declaration will rather hold out a caution to the thoughtless, than inflict legal penalties upon their follies. It will present to our fellow-citizens a memorable example of one source of error and political misfortune, by showing them the danger, which has already cost above twelve hundred thousand dollars. He could not see any evil that was to result from an expression of the opinion of the House, by the proposed amendment. It had not the quality of law; for, if a law were proposed for the abolition of these societies, he would oppose it. This amendment to the Address would operate as an advice. It curtails not the right of a free press, which Mr. M. held to be the luminary of the public mind. It would tend to excite a judicious and salutary inquiry among many respecting the just and true limits within which a virtuous and enlightened well-wisher to our country would think it safe to exercise this right. Of the inutility and danger of such societies in this country, he had little doubt. The scene of their birthplace was well adapted to the wholesome display of their powers. In France, where a despotism, impregnable to public opinion, had reigned--where no channel opened a sympathy by representation with the great body of the nation--those societies were admirably adapted to break down and subvert the old bulwark of habitual authority. But in America the case was widely different. Look at the immense body of public functionaries, who in this country are elected immediately by the people, or by their electors, in a constitutional mode, and say whether they are not adequate as functionaries to the public purposes of the country. Including every description of Legislators, Councils, Governors, Courts, Jurors, and Sheriffs, there are above twelve thousand. Of these, more than eleven hundred are actual Legislators, besides the hundred in this House, and those above stairs. These all act in the States, counties, townships, and hundreds, in separate but relative circles, so as to preclude a partial attention to any one scene, to the exclusion of another. The whole country is full of well-constituted organs of the people's will. Many of these Legislatures are in session twice a year, and all of them annually. We might be confused by their immense number, were they not so admirably dispersed over the Continent, and did they not move under the guidance of the laws, with the harmony of the spheres. It would not be easy to organize the nation into a more multifarious shape.

The case maintained by Mr. DAYTON yesterday appeared to be strong. He said that we had inquired into the defeat of St. Clair's army, and so we might into the causes of the insurrection. To point it out to a people so enlightened, will be to prevent it in future. If the House agree in opinion with the PRESIDENT, they will speak their opinion, and do their duty. This declaration goes to the constituent body, through the Executive; and, while it gratifies their inquiries in a point of so much solicitude, it erects a warning beacon. It shows to them the stormy breakers which lately threatened the public peace with shipwreck, and invites them to adhere to pilots of their own choosing, and to charts with which they are acquainted.

If the PRESIDENT had not thought some of the societies instrumental in producing the late calamity, they would not have attracted his notice, nor that of the House. It is because they are believed to have assisted and fomented the insurrection, that our constituents ought to be warned against them; and that another necessity for exerting their patriotism may be saved to those brave men who are at present encountering every difficulty in the West. These societies are not attended to, because, however offensive some of their proceedings and doctrines may have been, yet the rights of the press ought not to be freely handled.

Mr. FITZSIMONS had no violent predilection for any performance of his own. He had, therefore, to prevent so much disputing, prepared to withdraw his motion, provided the committee be willing that he should do so, and, in the room of this motion, he would read another, for which he was indebted to a gentleman at his right hand, (Mr. B. BOURNE.)

The committee consented. The former motion was withdrawn, and the other was read. This was an echo of that part of the speech of the PRESIDENT which mentions self-created societies.

Mr. CHRISTIE then rose. He was sorry to differ from his worthy colleague (Mr. MURRAY) on the question then before the committee; and he was doubly sorry to hear that gentleman labor so strenuously to saddle a public odium on some of the best citizens of the State which he represented. Mr. C. should not have risen on the present occasion, although he thought it an important one, had it not been to endeavor to rescue from public censure a society of gentlemen, who were described in the present amendment before the committee, as objects of public opprobrium. Mr. C. alluded to the Republican Society of the town of Baltimore. If the present amendment took place, that society would be involved in general and undeserved censure. He would, therefore, inform the House of what description of men the Republican Society of Baltimore consisted; and then the committee would be the best judges whether they ought to be rewarded in the manner in which the present amendment proposes. They are a society of gentlemen associated together for the purpose of diffusing political knowledge throughout the State of Maryland, and to instruct their Representatives in Congress, and the Legislature of the State, in any point that they think necessary, and not for the purpose of sowing dissension among the citizens of America, or of cultivating dislike to the Union, or to the laws. This society consists of men whose characters are superior to any censure that might be thrown against them, by the mover of the amendment. But when Congress are about to cast an odium on a particular society, the members of which have every respect for that body, and have always inculcated obedience to the laws of the United States, Mr. C. left it to the committee to determine whether, if they were themselves in the place of the Baltimore Society, they would not feel their sensibility materially wounded? Was not this returning good for evil? He again reminded the committee that the Republican Society at Baltimore was composed of a band of patriots, not the fair-weather patriots of the present day, but the patriots of seventy-five, the men who were not afraid to rally around the American standard, when that station was almost concluded to be a forlorn hope. They were men who, with their persons and properties, had assisted to drive from the soil of America the present lawless disturbers of the world. Are these the men, asked Mr. C., who ought to have all this mass of Congressional odium cast upon them? I trust not, sir. I trust, that if particular gentlemen are illiberal enough to censure them, yet that this House will never agree to such iniquitous measures. What was the conduct of this society when the first news of the late insurrection reached them? Did they not, in the most pointed manner, discountenance any such proceeding? Did they not refuse to correspond with any society that aided, or in any manner abetted, the insurrection? They did more. They offered their personal services to go and help to crush this commotion in the bud. Mr. C. subjoined that he would venture to say, and at the same time he spoke within bounds, that nine-tenths of this society actually took up their muskets and marched into the field for the above laudable purpose, and that numbers of them still continue there, and are the friends of peace and order, and not the disorganizers that the present amendment would make them. Mr. C. appealed to the candor of the committee to say, whether the Baltimore self-created Republican Society were the description of men whom the PRESIDENT, in his Speech, meant to describe. He was sure it was not. Therefore, why involve in this indiscriminate censure men who have deserved so well of their country? men who, instead of having odium cast upon them, merit every praise which the Federal Government can bestow. For these, and some other reasons, Mr. C. declared that he should vote against the amendment, and he trusted that he should vote in the majority.

Mr. MURRAY rose to explain. He did not mean this society. It was the Philadelphia and Pittsburg societies. Mr. M. was acquainted with this society, and had the greatest respect for them. As for the members of the other societies, he was for gibbeting their principles only.

Mr. RUTHERFORD.--This alarm is owing to an overgrown moneyed system, with which the people are not entirely satisfied. But the moneyholders need not be afraid. The people will pay the public debt. Then why disturb the tranquillity of the people? The PRESIDENT, in his Speech, points only at combinations over the mountains. As to the character of the PRESIDENT himself, to praise him was like holding up a rush candle to let us see the sun. I have known that man, said Mr. R., for these forty years. I have had the honor of serving under him in the last war, and of frequently executing his wise and noble orders. The member declared that this amendment could answer no purpose but that of disturbing the public peace. He himself represented as respectable a district as any in Virginia, and he had as good opportunities as any gentleman in that House to know the temper of Americans. They were firmly attached to the present Government, and the holders of paper need not be so much afraid of Democratic societies, for the people, to preserve the tranquillity, were determined to discharge the public debt, no matter how it was contracted, and, therefore, it would be much better not to harass the public mind with amendments like that on the table.

Mr. GILES said, that he had an amendment to propose that would, he hoped, meet with the approbation of a certain description of gentlemen in that committee. His amendment was to strike out the words "self-created societies," from the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS, and insert "the Democratic societies of Philadelphia, New York, and Pittsburg." Gentlemen could then have some specific object at which they could say that their vote of censure was levelled; for the general expression of self-created, comprehended every society of any kind in the Union. For his own part, he was very far from wanting to censure any set of men for their political opinions.

Mr. PARKER seconded the motion for striking out, but he would not consent to the insertion proposed by Mr. GILES.

Mr. SEDGWICK thought that the amendment stands better as it is at present.

Mr. VENABLE said, that there was a paper on that table (he referred to the letter from Mr. HAMILTON to the PRESIDENT) which showed that the combinations in the western counties began their existence at the very same time with the Excise law itself. It was, therefore, entirely improper to ascribe them to Democratic societies. Should Government, said Mr. V., come forward and show their imbecility by censuring what we cannot punish? The people have a right to think and a right to speak. I am not afraid to speak my sentiments. I am not afraid of being called a disorganizer. I am, as much as any gentleman in this committee, a friend to regular government.

Mr. DEXTER believed that such societies were, in themselves, wrong, but he was still not for making laws against them. He had, however, numerous objections to their conduct. One of these was, that they erected themselves into a model for the rest of their fellow-citizens to copy. The great principle of Republicanism was, that the minority should submit to the will of the majority. But these people have elevated themselves into tyrants. Such societies are proper in a country where government is despotic, but it is improper that such societies should exist in a free country like the United States, and hence, Mr. D. was a friend to the amendment proposed by Mr. FITZSIMONS. It had been said, that it was unusual to give opinions of this kind, but, in reality, the House were in the practice of expressing their sentiments on matters of that sort, in such addresses as the one now before them. Mr. D. was decidedly against the amendment of the amendment proposed by Mr. GILES.

Mr. NICHOLAS.--Gentlemen have brought us into a discussion, and then say we must decide as they please, in deference to the PRESIDENT. This is the real ground and foundation of their arguments. But who started this question? If the gentlemen have brought themselves into a difficulty with regard to the PRESIDENT, by their participation in proposing votes of censure which they cannot carry through, they have only to blame themselves. Is it expected, said Mr. N., that I am to abandon my independence for the sake of the PRESIDENT? He never intended that we should take any such notice of his reference to these societies; but if the popularity of the PRESIDENT has, in the present case, been committed, let those who have hatched this thing, and who have brought it forward, answer for the consequences. This whole question turns upon a matter of fact, which ought to be proved, viz: Have the Democratic societies been one of the principal causes of the Western insurrection? This is a matter of fact, or otherwise, and it depends upon direct evidence. But how do gentlemen handle this question? They digress into abstract propositions, a thing never heard of before, where a matter of fact was to be proved. I say, where direct proof is wanted, we see gentlemen standing on the floor for half an hour together, without attempting to advance a single fact in support of their assertions; yet this is the only admissible kind of evidence that the societies are from their nature unfriendly to the Federal Government.

Mr. N. then adverted to a remark which had been made, that libels were daily prosecuted in this country, from which it was inferred that calumnious attacks on Government were the just objects of reprehension. Mr. N. said, that the comparison was not fair, because in a case of libel, the parties accused have a proper opportunity to defend themselves. Have these people here (the Democratic societies) any such opportunity? It has been alleged, as a crime against them, that they have never once published any approbation of any measure of Government. Mr. N. argued that this arose from the very nature of their institution, which was to watch the errors of the Legislature and Executive, and point out to the public what they considered to be mistakes. Faults were the only kind of facts which they were in quest of. Here Mr. N. drew a material distinction. If these societies had censured every proceeding of Government, there would have been the greatest reason for taking some measures. But what was the case? As to an immense number of the proceedings of the Executive and Legislature, they had taken no notice whatever.

Mr. SEDGWICK thought that the PRESIDENT would have been defective in his duty, had he omitted to mention what he religiously believed to be true, viz: that the Democratic societies had in a great measure originated the late disturbances. It was the indispensable duty of the PRESIDENT to speak as he had spoken. The present amendment (of Mr. FITZSIMONS) would have a tendency to plunge these societies into contempt, and to sink them still farther into abhorrence and detestation. He pronounced them to be illicit combinations. One gentleman (Mr. NICHOLAS) tells you, that he despises them most heartily. Another (Mr. LYMAN) says that they begin to repent. Will the American people perversely propose to shoulder and bolster up these despised and repenting societies, which are now tumbling into dust and contempt? Their conduct differed as far from a fair and honorable investigation, as Christ and Belial. They were men prowling in the dark. God is my judge, said Mr. S., that I would not wish to check a fair discussion.

One gentleman (Mr. MCDOWELL) had told the committee, that the Assumption and Funding transactions were a cause of public discontent. It has been the trick of these people to make this assertion. They have said that the Funding System is a mass of favoritism, for the purpose of erecting an oppressive aristocracy, and a paper nobility. There is not a man among them, who is able to write, and who does not know that these assertions are false. As to the assumption of the debts of individual States, it has been said that this measure was undertaken for the purpose of making up a large debt. There was no such thing. Before the adoption of the new constitution, of which Mr. S. considered the Funding and Assumption Systems to be essential preliminaries, the credit and commerce of America were declining or gone. The States were disagreeing at home, and the American name was disgraced abroad. It was not to be supposed that every one of the measures of the new Government could please every body. Among the rest, excise was objected to in both Houses of Congress; but at last the good sense of the people acquiesced. At this crisis, a foreign agent (Genet) landed at Charleston. On his way to this city, he was attended by the hosannas of all the disaffected. He did the utmost mischief that was in his power; and in consequence of his efforts, Democratic societies sprung up. Mr. S. here gave a particular account of some proceedings of a society in Virginia, of more than usual boldness. He quoted some of their expressions relative to a very illustrious character, the PRESIDENT, and added that perhaps the individuals who composed this society were in themselves too despicable to deserve any notice in this place. He did not know whether they were or not. [Mr. S. was here interrupted by a member from Virginia, and an explanation ensued.]

Mr. MCDOWELL rose to make an apology for some words which had escaped him the day before. He did not expect to have been so smartly handled. He had been forcibly struck at the time, and had spoken from a momentary impulse. In substance, however, he adhered to all his former allegations. He still persisted in believing that the excise laws were shapen in darkness. He apologized for some part of his heat, from having seen and suffered so much by despotic government during the last war in which this gentleman supported the character of a brave and able officer.

Mr. HILLHOUSE approved of the amendment; as proposed by Mr. FITZSIMONS. Constituents made no scruple to tell Representatives of their faults, and he saw no reason why Representatives might not tell constituents of theirs? The resolutions of Democratic societies printed in newspapers, had spirited up the people in the Western counties to resistance. They had weakly fancied that the American nation would not stand by their constitution and their PRESIDENT. But for the publication of these resolutions, there would have been no insurrection. This was a piece of information which the people of the United States had a right to know. It was the duty of that House to let them know it. The PRESIDENT had done his duty. Mr. H. did not consider the amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS as an indiscriminate censure levelled at these societies; he thought it only a suitable answer to a part of the PRESIDENT's Speech.

Mr. PARKER concluded this long debate by the following remarks. He did not think that Democratic societies were so far to blame as had been imagined. He suspected that the PRESIDENT himself, for whose character and services he felt as much respect and gratitude as any man in America, had been misinformed on this point. It would be absurd to say, that the Western disturbances originated from the publications of Democratic societies, if it could be proved to the satisfaction of the committee, that such disturbances had begun long before any of the associations alluded to had a being. To prove this position, Mr. P. desired that the Clerk might read a passage from the letter on that affair, written by Mr. Hamilton, and which has already been published in all the newspapers. The Clerk accordingly read a part of the letter, from which Mr. P. inferred that his inference was incontestable, and he then stated the absurdity of making the Democratic publications the origin of a discontent, which existed before them. He was satisfied that the PRESIDENT did not wish this thing echoed; and that he would entirely disapprove of the proposed persecution. Mr. P. said, that he had the honor of being an honorary member of a Democratic society. Personally he knew nothing of the gentlemen, but he understood that they were respectable characters; and that they were friends to good order and the Federal Government, there could be no question, for when the Embargo was laid last spring, and some vessels had been attempting to get off, these vigilant citizens armed and embodied themselves, and prevented the execution of the design. With all his respect for the PRESIDENT, he was not to give up his opinions for the sake of any man. He was convinced that all this violent declamation and irritation in the House would do a great deal of mischief, and would have an effect exactly the reverse of what was designed by the amendment as it first stood. A gentleman (Mr. DEXTER) had spoken of town meetings, as the proper vehicles for the communication of political ideas, and had drawn a comparison between these and Democratic societies. Mr. P. requested that it might be noticed, that in the Southern States there neither were nor could be such things as town meetings, because the population was too thin and too widely scattered. They were therefore to make the best of it which they could, and meet and deliberate, no matter where, whenever they found a convenient opportunity. Mr. P. expressed, in strong terms the aversion that his constituents would feel to this species of censorship. He concluded with these words: "They love your Government much, but they love their independence more."

The question was then called for on striking out the word "self-created" from the new amendment of Mr. FITZSIMONS. For the amendment of Mr. GILES, ayes 47, noes 45. This amendment was therefore adopted.

Mr. GILES then proposed an amendment, after the words "combination of men," by adding, "in the four Western counties of Pennsylvania."

Mr. HARTLEY said, that the gentleman should have added, "and a county in Virginia." This amendment of Mr. GILES was rejected.

The committee now rose, and reported the amendments to the House.

WEDNESDAY, November 26.

[The committee having risen, and the question having been taken in the House, the yeas and nays on the motion to reinstate the obnoxious words, were:]

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, William J. Dawson, Jonathan Dayton, Samuel Baxter, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Wilkes Kittera, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Thomas Scott, Theodore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Artemas Ward, John Watts, and Paine Wingate.

NAYS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac Coles, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Gabriel Duvall, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison, John Heath, Daniel Heister, John Hunter, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Andrew Pickens, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, John Smilie, Israel Smith, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, and Joseph Winston.

And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said clause, amended to read as followeth:

"In tracing the origin and progress of the insurrection, we can entertain no doubt that certain self-created societies and combinations of men in the four Western counties of Pennsylvania, and parts adjacent, careless of consequences, and disregarding the truth, by disseminating suspicions, jealousies, and accusations of the Government, have had all the agency you ascribe to them, in fomenting this daring outrage against social order and the authority of the laws:"

It passed in the negative, nineteen members only rising in the affirmative.

FRIDAY, November 28.

Answer to the Address.

The Answer, as amended, was then read throughout at the Clerk's table as follows:

SIR: The House of Representatives, calling to mind the blessings enjoyed by the people of the United States, and especially the happiness of living under constitutions and laws which rest on their authority alone, could not learn, with other emotions than those you have expressed, that any part of our fellow-citizens should have shown themselves capable of an insurrection. And we learn, with the greatest concern, that any misrepresentations whatever, of the Government and its proceedings, either by individuals or combinations of men, should have been made, and so far credited as to foment the flagrant outrage which has been committed on the laws. We feel, with you, the deepest regret at so painful an occurrence in the annals of our country. As men regardful of the tender interests of humanity, we look with grief at scenes which might have stained our land with civil blood. As lovers of public order, we lament that it has suffered so flagrant a violation: as zealous friends of Republican Government, we deplore every occasion which, in the hands of its enemies, may be turned into a calumny against it.

This aspect of the crisis, however, is happily not the only one which it presents. There is another, which yields all the consolations which you have drawn from it. It has demonstrated to the candid world, as well as to the American people themselves, that the great body of them, every where, are equally attached to the luminous and vital principle of our constitution, which enjoins that the will of the majority shall prevail; that they understand the indissoluble union between true liberty and regular government; that they feel their duties no less than they are watchful over their rights; that they will be as ready, at all times, to crush licentiousness, as they have been to defeat usurpation: in a word, that they are capable of carrying into execution that noble plan of self-government which they have chosen as the guarantee of their own happiness, and the asylum for that of all, from every clime, who may wish to unite their destiny with ours.

These are the just inferences flowing from the promptitude with which the summons to the standard of the laws has been obeyed; and from the sentiments which have been witnessed, in every description of citizens, in every quarter of the Union. The spectacle, therefore, when viewed in its true light, may well be affirmed to display, in equal lustre, the virtues of the American character, and the value of Republican Government. All must particularly acknowledge and applaud the patriotism of that portion of citizens who have freely sacrificed every thing less dear than the love of their country, to the meritorious task of defending its happiness.

In the part which you have yourself borne through this delicate and distressing period, we trace the additional proofs it has afforded of your solicitude for the public good. Your laudable and successful endeavors to render lenity in executing the laws conducive to their real energy, and to convert tumult into order, without the effusion of blood, form a particular title to the confidence and praise of your constituents. In all that may be found necessary, on our part, to complete this benevolent purpose, and to secure the ministers and friends of the laws against the remains of danger, our due co-operation will be afforded.

The other subjects which you have recommended, or communicated, and of which several are peculiarly interesting, will all receive the attention which they demand. We are deeply impressed with the importance of an effectual organization of the militia. We rejoice at the intelligence of the advance and success of the army under the command of General Wayne, whether we regard it as a proof of the perseverance, prowess, and superiority of our troops, or as a happy presage to our military operations against the hostile Indians, and as a probable prelude to the establishment of a lasting peace, upon terms of candor, equity, and good neighborhood. We receive it with the greater pleasure, as it increases the probability of sooner restoring a part of the public resources to the desirable object of reducing the public debt.

We shall, on this, as on all occasions, be disposed to adopt any measure which may advance the safety and prosperity of our country. In nothing can we more cordially unite with you, than in imploring the Supreme Ruler of Nations to multiply His blessings on these United States; to guard our free and happy constitution against every machination and danger; and to make it the best source of public happiness, by verifying its character of being the best safeguard of human rights.

Resolved, That Mr. SPEAKER, attended by the House, do present the said address; and that Mr. MADISON, Mr. SEDGWICK, and Mr. SCOTT, be a committee to wait on the PRESIDENT, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the same.

Mr. GILES, from the committee appointed, presented a bill to regulate the pay of the non-commissioned officers, musicians, and privates, of the militia of the United States, when called into actual service, and for other purposes; which was read twice and committed.

The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Treasurer of the United States, accompanying his account of receipts and expenditures of public moneys, from the 1st of April to the 30th of June, 1794; also, his account of payments and receipts for the War Department, from the 1st of July to the 30th of September, 1794, inclusive; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, reported that the committee had waited on the PRESIDENT, who signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive the said Address at twelve o'clock to-morrow, at his own house.

SATURDAY, November 29.

The SPEAKER, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and there presented to him the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to which the PRESIDENT made the following reply:

Gentlemen: I anticipated, with confidence, the concurrence of the House of Representatives in the regret produced by the insurrection. Every effort ought to be used to discountenance what has contributed to foment it; and thus discourage a repetition of like attempts. For, notwithstanding the consolations which may be drawn from the issue of this event, it is far better that the artful approaches to such a situation of things should be checked by the vigilant and duly admonished patriotism of our fellow-citizens, than that the evil should increase until it becomes necessary to crush it by the strength of their arms.

I am happy that the part which I have myself borne on this occasion receives the approbation of your House. For the discharge of a constitutional duty, it is a sufficient reward to me to be assured that you will unite in consummating what remains to be done.

I feel, also, great satisfaction in learning that the other subjects which I have communicated or recommended, will meet with due attention; that you are deeply impressed with the importance of an effectual organization of the militia; and that the advance and success of the army under the command of General Wayne is regarded by you, no less than myself, as a proof of the perseverance, prowess, and superiority of our troops. G. WASHINGTON.

TUESDAY, December 2.

The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, stating his intention of resigning his office on the last day of January next, and which he now communicates, in order that an opportunity may be given, previous to that event, to institute any further proceedings which may be contemplated, if any there be, in consequence of the inquiry during the last session, into the state of the Treasury Department; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.[55]

THURSDAY, December 4.

Thanks to General Wayne.

Mr. W. SMITH wished to make his promised motion, which he prefaced by observing that he had varied it at the request of several gentlemen. In the original motion, he had particularly noticed the diligence of the General in disciplining his army to the nature of the service in which they were engaged, and his fortitude and perseverance in encountering the difficulties which opposed his march through a wilderness.

Though he and many others were ready to acknowledge in the fullest manner the merits of the General in those important particulars, yet as they were not matters of general notoriety, and as unanimity on an occasion like the present was extremely desirable, he had now confined the motion to the brilliant action of the 20th August.

Mr. SMITH concluded with saying, that as he had no doubt the services of the army had made the same impression on the House as they had on him, he trusted the motion he was about to make would be honored with a unanimous vote. He then moved the three resolutions, as follow:

Resolved, That the thanks of this House he given to Major General Wayne for the good conduct and bravery displayed by him in the action of the 20th August last with the Indians.

Resolved, unanimously, That the thanks of this House be given to the brave officers and soldiers of the legion under the orders of Major General Wayne, for their patience, fortitude, and bravery.

Resolved, That the thanks of this House be given to Major General Scott, and to the gallant mounted volunteers from the State of Kentucky, who have served their country in the field during the late campaign, under the orders of Major General Wayne, for their zeal, bravery, and good conduct.

Mr. GILES foresaw many bad consequences that might ensue from the practice of giving opinions of men. One part of the House might be for a vote of thanks, and the other against it. He should vote for the proposition, but wished that some mode might be adopted for expressing the general opinion of the House against the practice.

Mr. KITTERA was for restoring the clause respecting the vigilance of General Wayne in attending to the discipline of his troops.

Mr. HILLHOUSE hoped that the resolutions would not be adopted. He should go farther than the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. GILES) and vote against them. The House in their answer to the PRESIDENT, had expressed their approbation, and that was enough. It was not the business of that House, but of the Executive, to express such things. Mr. H. had voted most cordially for that part of the Address respecting the Western army. The Answer to the Speech of the PRESIDENT would always afford a good opportunity of conveying these kind of matters. It would immediately become necessary to give thanks in every case; and not to give them will be regarded as an implied censure. He trusted that the gentleman would withdraw his motion, and that the House in this way would get rid of it. He had, and he repeated it again, a high sense of the merit of the officers and soldiers of the army under General Wayne, but he had said so already in the Address to the PRESIDENT. It had been urged, as a precedent for this measure, that it was usual to thank the Speaker. This was a mere ceremony. He wished that it had never come into practice, but since it had been so, he should always agree to the vote of thanks.

Mr. MURRAY thought that we might trust that the House would always have too much prudence to abuse their thanks, by giving them improperly. By way of precedent Mr. M. read a vote of the State of Virginia, thanking Governor Lee for his conduct in the Western insurrection.

Mr. NICHOLAS approved highly of the conduct of the troops, but it was only an act of duty. If we send soldiers against the Indians, it is supposed that they will stand to their posts, otherwise the Government cannot be supported even for a month.

Mr. HILLHOUSE saw no business which the House had with the proceedings in the State of Virginia. It had been hinted that the army under General Wayne might feel disagreeably, if the resolution should be rejected. With that Mr. H. had no business. He acted on principles without regarding the feelings of individuals.

Mr. W. SMITH agreed with gentlemen that the principal object of the House was to legislate; but it did not follow that they were to be confined merely to legislation. Every Legislative body exercised the right of opinion in cases where no act was to follow. This House has frequently exercised it: the answers to the PRESIDENT's Speech; the answer to the King of the French on his acceptance of the Constitution of ninety-one; the opinion of the House on the merits of that constitution; the vote respecting Benjamin Franklin; the vote of last session in reply to a letter from the Committee of Public Safety of France; the votes of thanks to the Speakers, were precedents on the journals which refuted a contrary doctrine. It had been said that the latter case was a mere matter of form. Mr. S. thought differently, and if ever he was in that House when a vote of thanks should be proposed to a Speaker who had no claim to it, he should feel it his duty to oppose it. Gentlemen apprehended that this practice might lead to innumerable difficulties hereafter. But every House would exercise its judgment and discretion. Members would not be so rash as to propose the thanks of the House where serious opposition was expected, nor would the thanks be voted unless well merited. He was unwilling as any member to make the thanks of the House too cheap; but all must confess that if ever there was an occasion where they were properly called for, this was one. To deny the right or expediency of the practice was in fact to strip the House of one of its most agreeable functions, that of expressing its gratitude.

It had been advanced as an objection, that the two Houses might differ; one might vote thanks and the other censure, in the same case; but that might happen in other cases where the propriety of expressing an opinion was admitted; in answering the PRESIDENT's Speech in the State Legislatures, where thanks were frequently voted, the two branches might differ; that was never deemed an objection to the practice; each House expressed its individual opinion.

Mr. SMITH said, if the House had been sitting in September last when the account arrived of this victory, would the members have then felt as coldly as they now do? No: he was convinced that in the moment of joy and gratitude, they would have unanimously voted thanks to the army without the least hesitation; but they have since had time to cool, and the impression is worn away.

Gentlemen should consider the hard services of that army; how badly paid they were; the nature of the country they were in; and then determine whether the brilliant action of the 20th August is to go unrewarded? To appreciate truly the merits of that army in obtaining so signal a victory, let the House reflect on the consequences of a defeat: the army disbanded and broken up; the frontiers exposed to the ferocious savages; the combination of the tribes more cemented and formidable; an expensive, long, and bloody war. What is now our prospect? The frontiers protected; the combination of the tribes dissolved, and peace with them all a probable event.

Before, therefore, the motion which he had made could be got rid of, it was incumbent on the gentlemen on the other side to show, either that it was improper in any case whatever to pass a vote of thanks, or that this was not a case entitled to them; to do the first they must establish, in the face of precedents innumerable, a doctrine destructive of one of the most amiable privileges of the House; to do the last, they must express a sentiment which would, he was persuaded, be repugnant to the sentiments of all their constituents, for throughout the United States there was but one opinion on this subject, and that was in unison with the motion. Having made the motion after due deliberation, he certainly should not withdraw it; but would submit it to the good sense of the House.

Mr. COIT moved the previous question. He thought the practice of dangerous consequence. It might produce much uncomfortable proceeding in that House. He was seconded by a number of members.

Mr. PARKER felt the highest esteem for the services of the Western army. He was intimate both with General Wayne and General Scott; but he disapproved of the practice upon principle. It was wrong in Mr. MURRAY to quote the proceedings in the Legislature of Virginia, where the Governor was in authority a mere cipher, because the two cases did not apply. The Federal Government was on a quite different footing, a mixture of monarchy, of aristocracy, and of democracy. The PRESIDENT represented the monarchical part. It was his business to give thanks, if requisite. If he himself was an officer in that army, Mr. P. said that he should be satisfied by the first thanks, those in the answer to the PRESIDENT. He would be hurt by the second as unconstitutional. What if, in the mean time, General Wayne and his army may have committed some error that requires an inquiry, and the House are to go into it with this vote of thanks staring them in their face! It had been said by Mr. SMITH, that if we had been sitting in September, when this news arrived, a vote of thanks would have been passed immediately and unanimously. I believe no such thing (said Mr. P.) We should have recommended such a step to the PRESIDENT.

Mr. GILES said, that if there ever could have been any doubt as to the impropriety of the resolution, that was now removed, (alluding to the speech of Mr. PARKER.) He thought that the gentleman (Mr. COIT) who moved the previous question had acted from the best motives. Two gentlemen (Mr. GILES referred to Mr. SEDGWICK and Mr. AMES) had recommended an appeal to feeling. We are sent here to reason. A gentleman (Mr. SEDGWICK) says that he has feelings which he cannot express. Let him strive to express them. It is not expected that a member is to express all that he may feel on every subject.

Mr. MURRAY said he thought the present resolution proper, unexceptionable, and as the fate of this question would have an effect on the motion for thanks to the militia, which he brought forward yesterday, he hoped it would succeed, and that its mover (Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina) would not withdraw it. Gentlemen who are against the vote have talked of precedent. If example would serve their feelings with a stimulus, he would take the liberty of calling their attention to a page he had in his hand, in which they would find that some of our constituents have got the start of us, for the House of Delegates of Virginia had very properly considered the conduct of their Governor (Mr. LEE) in a light which merited their thanks for his acceptance of the command of his fellow-citizens against the insurgents. Mr. M. read the vote from a newspaper, which was a unanimous one. He said he considered this circumstance as extremely auspicious to both votes.

He said he had no objection to consider the practice as founded in principles which would bear examination. He thought it more necessary in the administration of our Government--the great basis of which was public opinion--than in that of any other which he had read or heard of. Here our theories have made a bold appeal to the reason and feelings of our fellow-citizens. Neither titles, nor hereditary honors, nor crosses, nor ribbons, nor stars, nor garters, are permitted or endurable. Neither would they be accepted here were they offered. We had but two ways, as far as his knowledge then served him, of rewarding or acknowledging great displays of public virtue. One way is by pay in money; the other by thanks expressed by vote, or presented and perpetuated in some memorial, as in a medal. The first is unequal; as the fortunes of men differ, so would such reward not be equally valuable to all its objects; and were it practicable to apportion this reward agreeably to the fortunes of men, there is a something ill-assorted in it with the idea of honorable ambition; nor did he think there was any good man who had a spark of what is called sentiment in his bosom, who would not say the reward was not only lame for want of uniformity, but defective in point of taste in its species. He believed much in the sense of duty as a motive to good and reasonable services, and that an enlightened mind would feel the close alliance between interest and duty; but he held reward to be essential, politically considered, to the practice of great virtue, taking men as you find them. Not that money can be an adequate reward; it was therefore that he wished to see a style of acknowledgment derived both from the genius of the Government and congenial with the passions which work on the side of virtue--a mode as far removed from mere avarice as it was nearly associated to the movements of the most elevated minds. He readily yielded his belief that the gentlemen who were unwilling to adopt the practice fully admitted the merits to which they did not think it expedient to give a vote of thanks; but the precedent, founded expressly on the principle, that in no case of the greatest events are we to give thanks to the agents in them, will absolutely strip the Government of the only power its constitution admits of conferring deserved distinction. He thought that public gratitude was a great fund, which if judiciously and delicately economized, might be rendered a source of great and good actions. It is an honor both to the nation that can feel and express it, and to those who receive it. He did not think it ought to be lightly drawn on, and hoped a line which it was more easy to conceive than draw, would be adopted by the House to save the Legislature from those perilous occasions which would lessen its value, and that no member would ever move a vote of thanks but upon the happening of some event so strikingly great and useful as to carry but one opinion. The two events designated at present (for he saw both votes were to have one fate) were great, highly interesting, and carried but one opinion. The army under General Wayne had gained a brilliant victory. It was, he believed, the first great victory that had attended the arms of the United States since the adoption of the constitution. That army merited the thanks of their country, and we may say so. They had not only gained victory and fame, but had earned them in a solitude where the voice of fame could not be heard; in a profound wilderness, where neither the soothings of just ambition can reach them, nor the smiles of social and civilized life can comfort them after their severe labors.

The militia, both officers and men, in "quelling the insurrection," had displayed the wisdom and virtue which the constitution had anticipated; had eminently deserved the most public testimony to their good conduct. Shall we, as we certainly feel this to be true, be deterred from expressing what we feel, because the folly of a future moment may possibly betray us into an undue multiplication of thanks, or because we may be harassed by a fatiguing succession of calls upon our gratitude? There could be little fear that great events would crowd too fast upon our feelings, and take up our time by applause, and he believed his constituents would readily admit the importance of two such events as some excuse for the time we consume in celebrating them.

In favor of the principle, we are supported by the example of the old Congress, by the practice of all nations, and by the known character of human nature in all cases and everywhere. The ancients and the moderns, by a variety of inventions and of policy, analogous to our object, endeavored to enlist all the passions in the public service. The old Congress understood the springs that work in great events, and though there was in the glorious revolution which they guided, an ardor in the public mind that needed little aid, they did not disdain an appeal to the just pride and ambition of the individual; that the motives to public virtue might be multiplied, they in many instances took care that great events and services should be attended by some small but inestimable memorial.

Mr. AMES.--The apprehensions of the House have been attempted to be alarmed, as if they were pushed to adopt hastily and unguardedly some dangerous new principle. The practice of all public bodies, without exception, has been to express their approbation of distinguished public services. Instead of establishing a new principle, the attempt is now made to induce us to depart from an old one. Nay, the objection taken altogether is still more inconsistent and singular, for it is urged, the answer of the House to the PRESIDENT's Speech has already expressed our approbation of the conduct of General Wayne and his army. It is, say they, superfluous to express it again. The argument opposed to the vote of thanks stands thus: It is a dangerous new principle, without a precedent, and without any just authority from the constitution, to thank the army; for, the objectors add, we have in the answer to the Speech expressed all that is contained in the motion. It is unusual to quote precedent, and our own recent conduct, to prove a motion unprecedented, and to prove a measure new and dangerous because it has been adopted without question or apprehension heretofore.

It is simply a question of mere propriety; and is it a novelty, is it any thing to alarm the caution of the House, that such questions are always to be decided by feeling? What but the sense of propriety induces me to perform to others the nameless and arbitrary duties, and to receive from others the rights which the civilities and refinements of life have erected into laws? In cases of a more serious kind, is not sentiment the only prompt and enlightened guide of our conduct? If I receive a favor, what but the sentiment of gratitude ought to direct me in my acknowledgments? Shall I go to my benefactor and say, Sir, I act coolly and carefully; I will examine all the circumstances of this transaction, and if upon the whole I find some cause of gratitude, I will thank you. Is this gratitude or insult? The man who affects to hold his feelings, and his best feelings back for this cold-blooded process of reasoning, has none. He deceives himself, and attempts to deceive others, if he pretends to reason up or to reason down the impressions which actions worthy of gratitude and admiration make upon his heart. Was it necessary to wait for the joy and exultation which the news of the victory of General Wayne instantly inspired, till we could proceed with all due phlegm and caution to analyze it? The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. NICHOLAS) has not even yet received the impressions which are so natural and so nearly universal; for he has insisted that the army has only done its duty, and therefore it is improper to express our thanks. Indeed, it has done its duty, but in a manner the most splendid, the most worthy of admiration and thanks. That gentleman has also expressed his doubts of the very important nature of the victory, and one would suppose it was thought by many a very trivial advantage that is gained. It is such an one, however, as has humbled a victorious foe; as has avenged the slaughter of two armies; as gives us the reasonable prospect of a speedy peace. Can we desire any thing more ardently than a termination of the Indian war?

A soldier, of all men, looks to this kind of recompense for his services; and surely, to look to the approbation and applause of his country is one means of keeping alive the sentiments of citizenship, which ought not to be suffered to expire even in a camp. Shall we make it an excuse for refusing to pass this vote, that we establish the principle of thanking nobody? Is not this, as a principle, as novel, as improper, as that which alarms our opponents? And shall we establish it as a principle against the known practice of other assemblies and of this, and against the intrinsic propriety of the case, merely because we think our discretion will not be firm enough in future to prevent the abuse of the practice? Scarcely any abuse could have a worse influence than the refusal to adopt this vote, because, should the negative prevail, what would the army believe? Would they not say, a vote of thanks has been rejected? It is said we have not done much, and what we have done is merely our duty, for which we receive wages?

The debate has taken such a turn, that I confess I could have wished the motion had not been made. For the most awkward and ridiculous thing in the world is to express our gratitude lothly. But at least it offers to those who fear that votes of thanks will be too frequent, some security against their apprehensions. Would any man risk the feelings and character of his friend by an attempt to force a vote of thanks by a bare majority through the House? No, an ingenuous mind will shrink from this gross reward. If there is any force in the precedent it is feared we are now making, it will operate more to deter from than to invite the repetition.

Mr. DEARBORN was in favor of the original motion. In addition to some remarks relative to the Republicanism of the idea of the Representatives of the people thanking the armies of the people for their prowess and victories, he compared the argument against the resolutions on the score of abuse to a miser's excusing himself from the practice of charity, lest he should bestow it on unworthy objects.

Mr. RUTHERFORD was opposed to the previous question. He hoped the resolution of thanks would pass without a dissenting voice.

The previous question was now called for, by five members, viz: "Shall the main question to agree to the said resolution, be now put?" And

On the previous question, "Shall the said main question be now put?" it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 52, nays 36.

And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said resolution, it was

Resolved, unanimously, That the thanks of this House be given to the brave officers and soldiers of the legion under the orders of Major General Wayne, for their patience, fortitude, and bravery.

Resolved, unanimously, That the thanks of this House be given to Major General Scott, and to the gallant mounted volunteers from the State of Kentucky, who have served their country in the field, during the late campaign, under the orders of Major General Wayne, for their zeal, bravery, and good conduct.

Resolved, That the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES be requested to transmit the foregoing resolutions; and that Mr. WILLIAM SMITH and Mr. MURRAY be appointed a committee to wait on the PRESIDENT therewith.

On motion of Mr. MURRAY,

Resolved, unanimously, That the thanks of this House be given to the gallant officers and privates of the militia of the States of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia, who, on the late call of the PRESIDENT, rallied round the standard of the laws, and, in the prompt and severe services which they encountered, bore the most illustrious testimony to the value of the constitution, and the blessings of internal peace and order; and that the PRESIDENT be requested to communicate the above vote of thanks in such manner as he may judge most acceptable to the patriotic citizens who are its objects.

Ordered, That Mr. WILLIAM SMITH and Mr. MURRAY be appointed a committee to wait on the PRESIDENT with the foregoing resolution.

TUESDAY, December 9.

The Mint.

The House then took up the motion of Mr. COIT, relative to the Mint. The letter of Mr. Rittenhouse, referred to yesterday, was again read.

Mr. BOUDINOT drew the attention of the House for some time, by a series of the most interesting observations. He went to the Bank of the United States to inquire for cents. He was told that there were none to be had, because the Bank could not get them from the Mint. He then went to the Mint, where he was informed that cents were not coined faster because the officers of the Mint did not know where to get them vented! He said that this Mint cost twenty-four thousand dollars per annum, and every cent coined there cost the public several cents, though he could not exactly tell how many. In New Jersey far more cents had been coined in a few months than had ever been coined altogether at the Mint of the United States, and this had been done at one-fortieth part of the expense which the Mint of the United States has cost.

Several other members adverted to the prodigious inconvenience which is felt all over the Union for want of copper coin; and it appeared to excite some curiosity, on what foundation the officers of the Mint said that they could not get their cents vented. It was remarked by Mr. W. SMITH that, except as to Philadelphia, the Mint is of little or no use whatever. The cents given out never go farther than the city.

A committee of three members were appointed to examine and report on the state of the Mint, and what means may be used to render the institution more beneficial to the United States.

WEDNESDAY, December 10.

An engrossed bill making appropriations for the support of Government, for the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-five, was read the third time, and passed.

MONDAY, December 15.

Two other members, to wit: from Virginia, JOHN PAGE; and from North Carolina, BENJAMIN WILLIAMS, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

TUESDAY, December 16.

Pennsylvania Insurgents.

It was then moved and seconded that the House should go into a committee, on the report of the select committee, on that part of the PRESIDENT's Speech which recommended compensation to the sufferers by the insurgents in the Western counties. The House accordingly went into a committee, Mr. COBB in the chair, and the report was read.

In the clause for making compensation to officers of Government, and other citizens, Mr. NICHOLAS was for striking out the three last words, and restricting indemnification to the officers of Government, as the additional words would make room for a set of claims which never could be satisfied or put to an end. It is now ascertained that the majority of the people of the four western counties have always been in favor of Government; but, since it is so, they ought to have suppressed the insurrection, and saved the expense of sending an army into that country. But as they did not do so, Mr. N. did not see what claim they had for compensation any more than the sufferers in the war with Britain.

Mr. FINDLAY thought that sound policy required an indemnification to the sufferers.

Mr. HILLHOUSE was in favor of the report of the committee as it stood. The whole affair was but a trifle. He understood that the damages done by the rioters did not altogether exceed twenty thousand dollars; and that three-fourths of this sum was for losses sustained by officers of the revenue. The rest of the account was for persons who had fought in defence of the officers or who had lodged and protected them. He observed that the whole of the select committee were of one mind upon the subject, and agreed in considering the other citizens as equally entitled to indemnification with the officers themselves.

Mr. NICHOLAS was still against the resolutions as originally worded. He did not see any proof of extraordinary attachment on the part of the claimants, nor any peculiar call on the justice of the House in this particular case.

Mr. W. SMITH said, that one man had his whole property burned for having, at the hazard of his life, assisted in attempting to defend the house of the Inspector General. A second received the same treatment for having lodged an excise officer; and a third, because he had antecedently been one himself, though he had quitted his employment before the riots began. Mr. S. urged that these were certainly peculiar and pressing cases, and that it would be highly impolitic not to protect such people.

Mr. GILBERT hoped that there would be no discrimination, but that all the sufferers would be alike reimbursed.

Mr. BOUDINOT proposed a kind of compromise between the original resolution and the amendment by Mr. NICHOLAS. He proposed that the clause should read thus: "officers of the revenue, and other citizens aiding and assisting them." He was willing to indemnify persons who had actually suffered in defence of Government, but not other persons who might accidentally have been injured by the rioters.

Mr. DAYTON was of opinion that some restriction of this sort was necessary. Citizens were in duty bound to support Government, but the latter was not in all cases bound to indemnify their losses. Let any person go through any part of the country wherever British soldiers had marched, and he would find thousands and tens of thousands of people whose property had been utterly destroyed by the wanton barbarity of these troops. Go to another part of the country and you will find people who suffered very considerably by the American soldiers, when Government did not give them an ounce of bread for pounds that they should have had. It was not possible to make satisfaction to all these people.

Mr. SEDGWICK said it was extremely disagreeable to attempt detaining the committee with this subject, to which they discovered such general inattention, that he did not know if it had ever been equalled in any popular assembly before. He again adverted to an argument which he had used on a former day, viz: that when a private person, at the risk of his property and his life, comes forward to support the execution of the laws, his service was much more meritorious, and demonstrated a much greater degree of patriotism than that of a revenue officer who was paid for his share of the business. He inferred that the sufferers by the Western rioters should all be equally indemnified.

Mr. HILLHOUSE repeated some of his former reasons for wishing to discharge the whole claims. He was therefore against the qualified amendment of Mr. BOUDINOT.

Mr. SWIFT was against the amendment of Mr. BOUDINOT, because he was against giving, at present, any thing at all. He would suffer the persons who have sustained injury from these rioters and trespassers to prosecute them at law. If they cannot get any retribution in that way, then, and not sooner, you may begin to consider upon the propriety of giving any compensation; but till the parties aggrieved have done their utmost in that way, he would have no steps whatever taken of the nature proposed. It had been alleged that the House might advance money in the mean time to the sufferers, and leave them to their actions against the rioters. But if you pay a man for his damages, what security is there that he will follow up his suit; or, is it not evident that such previous compensation will greatly damp his ardor? Mr. S. said, that if previous notice were given of Government being ready to pay the damages, in case they could not be recovered before a court of law, there certainly never would be found a jury to bring a verdict against a private person. For this reason Mr. S. was entirely against the resolution at this time. What he might do hereafter, he would not say. There was only one case wherein he could be induced to advance money. If any of these persons could prove that they had been reduced by the rioters to such poverty that they were unable to prosecute their claims in a court of law, it might then perhaps be expedient to advance for them the expenses of the suit. But the interposition of the House at this period would affect the claims very greatly, and thus confer on the rioters themselves a favor which Mr. S. was very unwilling to bestow, as he would wish them prosecuted to the utmost. Before the meeting of next Congress, it might be ascertained what could be made of these prosecutions, and then, and not till then, Mr. S. would think it proper to enter on the discussion suggested by the report of the select committee.

Mr. DEXTER drew a distinction between persons suffering by an open enemy, whose approaches they could not avoid, and those who suffer voluntarily. The claim for compensation was complete, and we should do the parties injustice if they did not receive full satisfaction.

Mr. BOUDINOT withdrew his amendment, under the idea that the particular cases would hereafter come before the House. The question therefore reverted to its former shape, shall the words "and other citizens" be struck out.

Mr. DAYTON, in opposition to Mr. DEXTER, considered the Government of the United States as more justly bound to make reparation to the people who suffered by the robberies and conflagrations perpetrated by British soldiers than to compensate the sufferers in the four Western counties; for those whose houses were burned, and whose property was destroyed by the British, had no quarter to which they could look for relief except to their own Government. The people to the Westward, on the contrary, had it in their power to prosecute the rioters, who were well able to pay them. Mr. DEXTER had said that the losses of the persons ruined by the British were upon record. Perhaps, said Mr. DAYTON, they will always be on record; but nobody supposes that we shall ever indemnify these losses. He thought it prudent for the present to restrict relief to the officers of Government alone.

The question was about to be put, on the amendment proposed by Mr. NICHOLAS to the first resolution in the report of the select committee, when Mr. SCOTT rose. He said, that if there had been a proposal devised to weaken the hands of Government in the four Western counties, there was no one thing which could have effected that point so completely as the striking out of these three words, "and other citizens." If gentlemen would only reflect for a moment, he would ask them how they thought it possible that any civil officer, after the adoption of such an amendment, would ever be able to raise a posse in that part of the country? Who would hereafter venture to defend the life of an excise officer, when the world has been told, that individuals do it at their own hazard, and cannot look to Government for any compensation? Who will hereafter admit an excise officer into his house, if that house may, with impunity, be burned about his ears? As soon as this amendment has gone abroad, every body, instead of assisting the officers of the revenue, will strive to keep out of their way, and have nothing to do with them. If there never had been any thing said about making a compensation to other citizens, perhaps there might have been little harm, or at least there would have been much less harm by forbearing to give them relief. But when the subject has been fairly brought forward by the PRESIDENT in his Speech, and when it had been debated at full length in this House, when so much notice had been attracted, and so many hopes have been thrown out, to give, in the face of all this, a direct negative, would be the most impolitic step that could possibly be thought of.

The committee then agreed to reject the amendment, and divided on the first resolution as it originally stood in the report of the select committee--yeas 46, nays 37.

The second resolution was then put for enabling the PRESIDENT to draw the sum of ---- dollars for the relief of the sufferers--yeas 41, nays 37.

Mr. SMITH then said, that seventeen thousand dollars had been mentioned in the committee as sufficient to pay the whole damages. He proposed to fill up the blank with eight or ten thousand dollars, on account, till they should see what was to be the final amount of the claims.

Mr. HILLHOUSE and Mr. KITTERA both objected to this proposal. The committee rose. The Chairman reported that the committee had agreed to the report of the select committee without any amendment. The House were about to take up the report, when Mr. SEDGWICK said, that he was really concerned at thinking that there could have been any division at all about such a thing. He still hoped that a measure might be adopted which would produce unanimity on the subject, and would have a much better effect than such a division.

The bill appropriating one million one hundred and twenty-two thousand five hundred and sixty-nine dollars and one cent for the expenses of the militia in the Western expedition, was read a first and second time, and referred to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.

WEDNESDAY, December 17.

Pennsylvania Insurgents.

The House resumed the consideration of the report of the select committee on that part of the PRESIDENT's Speech respecting compensation to the sufferers by insurgents in the Western counties in Pennsylvania. When the first of the two resolutions in the report was read, Mr. SWIFT objected to the granting of immediate indemnification, on much the same ground as he adopted yesterday in the Committee of the Whole. He inquired how a person, with a compensation from that House in his pocket, could appear in a Court of Justice to prosecute a rioter for damages, when the Judge, the jurors, and every one in Court knew he had been indemnified? He enlarged, at some length, on the great pity that it would be to let those rioters and rebels escape so; and, after they had cost Government above a million of dollars, that they should not be obliged to pay these sixteen or twenty thousand.

Mr. LYMAN hoped that the House would give the money, and have done with the business.

Mr. NICHOLAS.--The more he considered this question, he was the more convinced that the House are involving themselves in embarrassment. Are you not told (said he, alluding to what had been urged by Mr. SWIFT) that, by paying these claims in the first instance, you are cutting the sinews of civil process? In any future commotion of this kind a person who has lodged an exciseman may have his house burnt from private spite against him, and not because he interfered in favor of a revenue officer. Then you are bound, by this precedent, to indemnify him; and how can you distinguish what was the real motive to that outrage? He believed it impossible ever to bring Government to such a state of perfection as that all losses suffered in defence of it should be indemnified at its charge. Where is the difference between this case and that of indemnifying the losses at sea by the British? Yet that proposal was rejected. Where is the gentleman who will say that he believes people will put themselves to the trouble of prosecuting, when they know that the money, if recovered, must go into your pockets again? Let us put the case, that a jury in the Western counties, where these points must be tried, shall find any of these people entitled to less than what you have bestowed upon them? Can you then recover the money back again? It is said that this resolution embraces but a few instances, and these of the most meritorious kind; but, in reality, it includes all citizens who have suffered. What will this comprehend, or, rather, what will it not comprehend? He supposed that the design was that the commissioners appointed by the PRESIDENT for that effect should be sent into the Western counties to ascertain the damages. Mr. N. concluded by declaring that nothing which he had heard could induce him to go to the extent proposed; and, by giving money at present, the prosecutions would all come to nothing.

Mr. MURRAY hoped the first resolution would succeed. He really thought that the reasoning of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. NICHOLAS) would extend to the exclusion of General Neville.

Mr. MADISON remarked, that great respect was due to this proposition, both on account of the interesting occasion that produced it, and of the quarter from whence it came. But the more he revolved the subject in his mind, the more he was convinced that great circumspection was requisite, and that the House, for many reasons, ought to take as much time in deliberating upon what they ought to do as the nature of the subject will admit. He recommended the proposal of some gentlemen to let the affair lie over to next session.

It is no doubt proper to encourage a spirit for suppressing insurrections, and this measure is certainly calculated to promote that spirit. But, in his judgment, Mr. M. feared that it would likewise encourage insurrections. A great body of people were commonly engaged in such disturbances who were not worth hanging, and to whom an established Government usually held out an amnesty. By this means great multitudes came in, and received pardon before the operations of chastisement began. The mob, therefore, would in this case reason thus: As a crowd, we have a good chance to escape the gallows. Let us then plunder as fast as possible, because Government will disburse the loss, and we shall not be forced to disgorge our booty. Mr. M. thought that speculations of this kind might be entertained by future insurgents, if the House were instantly to vote a complete indemnification to the sufferers. Mr. M. held the highest respect for the arguments and feelings of gentlemen who espoused the other side of the question. What he himself had just now suggested, he did not regard as decisive considerations, but yet as considerations of weight. His own impression was to let the matter lie over till the next session, and then those who had done their best in prosecuting would come forward to that House to claim compensation under the most auspicious circumstances, and all which they shall have recovered will be saved to the State.

Mr. BOUDINOT differed in some degree from the gentleman who spoke last. He was for doing something at present, though not so much as was implied in the first resolution. He recapitulated the danger that would arise from slackening the efforts of people to prosecute the rioters. He entirely dissented from the principle laid down by some gentlemen, that Government was in all cases bound to indemnify the losses sustained by its citizens from foreign or domestic outrage. In the war with Britain there were great numbers of people who chose rather to fight it out to the last, and permit their houses to be burnt by the British troops, than accept of terms which they might have obtained. Mr. B. again proposed the amendment which he laid yesterday before the committee, viz: that after the words "and other citizens," there should be inserted, "personally aiding and assisting them." This he thought sufficient in the mean time.

Mr. HEATH declared himself against the resolution as unsound policy. He feared that it may be an encouragement to future mischief. When an officer of the revenue finds that he is to be so easily paid--to be paid a double value for the burning of his house--will not this slacken his ardor in defence of it? Who has not heard of the rebellion of Shays, where a great deal of property was destroyed? People there began at the right end of the business. Lawsuits were commenced against the rebels, and damages were recovered. Pray, would it not be a proper bar to the recovery of damages in a court of law to say Government has paid you? Will not these people who suffered by the Tories in the last war come next, with open mouths, and demand indemnity? We shall next have those citizens who lately suffered by the pirates of Britain hastening to demand compensation. Mr. H. considered this as the most important question which had come before Congress during the present session. He concluded by saying that he would bear his testimony against this resolution.

Mr. CARNES was of the same opinion. Mr. MURRAY had said that it would be impossible to find a jury in the Western counties who would give honest damages against the rioters, because almost every body was on their side, and there would be no possibility of finding a jury who would pass an equitable verdict, unless recourse was had to the odious and execrable practice of packing juries. This remedy was worse than the disease; and from this Mr. MURRAY inferred the futility of compelling the sufferers to wait for the result of hopeless prosecutions, and the propriety of immediately paying the damages. Mr. CARNES asked the gentleman whether his knowledge as a lawyer did not inform him that an upright jury might be selected without having recourse to the infamous expedient of packing? When a jury were chosen, the prosecutors would be at liberty to except against them; and if they were either men of bad characters, or in any shape connected with the rioters, these exceptions would be admitted, and this process would go on till a respectable jury could be chosen. This was quite distinct from any thing like packing. He considered this explanation as a satisfactory answer to the arguments advanced by the member from Maryland; and he entertained a better opinion than that gentleman seemed to possess of the jurymen in the Western counties. Mr. C. foresaw many bad consequences that might possibly flow from this alacrity in discharging damages. What if there should be a collusive insurrection between two parties, and then, instead of twenty thousand dollars, we shall have to discharge a bill of perhaps an hundred thousand, or twice that sum? He considered it as good a plea in bar of prosecutions to say, Government has paid you. But if we are so fond of indemnifying people who suffer losses, the House may begin by satisfying the settlers in the back part of Georgia, where the Creeks within the last ten months only have done mischief to the extent of five or six hundred thousand dollars. He should be glad to hear the House disposed to indemnify these people, but it was what he did not expect. He could not see why these sufferers were not as much entitled to compensation as the others in the four Western counties. As to the Creeks, the State of Georgia was neither at war nor peace with them. Peace it was called, but in the mean time the savages were committing incessant murders. Reverting to the question before the House, Mr. C. said, that it would be most impolitic to proceed at present in the payment of these losses; and he was convinced that the PRESIDENT himself, when he made the reference in his Speech, did not intend that the thing should be acted on immediately. Mr. C. hoped that there would be a delay for the present session. The best way to ascertain the real extent of the damages was to leave the matter to the decision of a jury. When juries have determined this point, then, if the rebels cannot pay, give satisfaction to the sufferers in terms of the verdicts. The member from Maryland had said, that damages could not be accurately specified by a jury. Yes. If you pay nothing at present, but, if you pay at present, the action is barred. Mr. C. had not entirely formed his opinion on the question of compensation, but he was satisfied that it was better to make a delay.

Mr. DEXTER, in reply to the supposition that this compensation would encourage future insurrections, gave it as his opinion that it would be the means of preventing them. An insurgent would say to himself, "I might escape from the prosecution of my neighbor, but, when the United States assist him, I cannot stand against both." Mr. D. conceived that the meaning of the resolution had been mistaken, and he placed the question in a light entirely new and unnoticed by any former speaker. Gentlemen had spoken as if the resolution went to the immediate and complete discharge of the whole damages, and upon this many arguments had been founded. This idea was an entire mistake, for the first resolution went only to ascertain the real extent of the damages, and did not pledge the House to pay the total amount of them. He considered this as a very material distinction, and which, in a great measure, obviated many arguments on the opposite side of the question. Mr. D. did not think, with the member from Georgia, that the same rule applied to the south-western settlers of that State and to parties in the present resolution. The people on the frontiers have "placed themselves in a place of danger knowingly." The Creeks were an open enemy, but the insurgents were an unexpected one. Mr. D. proceeded at great length to make a distinction between the two cases, and concluded by saying that the second resolution, which, as well as the first, he hoped would pass, went only to a temporary relief.

Mr. HARTLEY also placed a part of the question in quite a different light from any former gentleman. Since he had been a member of that House he had found occasion to read a good deal of law, and, from that knowledge of law, he had, yesterday, in the committee, informed the House that neither General Neville nor any body else could obtain damages against the rioters in a civil action. All the arguments, therefore, which had been advanced as to whether equitable damages could be recovered before a jury, proceeded upon an error, because no civil process whatever would lie in the case. If the House were disposed to doubt his own opinion, Mr. H. could now give them that of the first law officer in Pennsylvania. Since yesterday Mr. H. had consulted that gentleman, who gave it as his express opinion that the greater crime absorbs the lesser; that a case of this kind is only a criminal action, and that no penal damages can be recovered. The crime is liable to a capital punishment; he did not mean to death; but to such a degree of punishment as the offence should be found to deserve. Mr. H. added, that if people had known that they were to be indemnified for their losses by the United States, a much greater number would have stood by the law than did so. It was not the fear of personal danger which prevented people from resisting the insurgents; it was apprehension of having their barns burned down in the night time.

Mr. DEXTER interrupted Mr. HARTLEY to inquire whether, by the laws of this State, the property of an insurgent is forfeited for his crime? Mr. HARTLEY replied that it was not. Mr. DEXTER then remarked, that it was very absurd to say to a man, "You are an insurgent; you have committed a great deal of mischief, but you are so very deep an offender that I cannot recover damages." Mr. HARTLEY rose again to give some further explanation, when the SPEAKER announced that he had something to communicate to the House. Mr. HARTLEY sat down, and the SPEAKER said, that he had received from the PRESIDENT some important and confidential communications, which it was requisite to read in the House this day. It did not appear that they would decide on the first resolution at present, and there was not now more time left before the common hour of rising than would be necessary for reading the communications from the PRESIDENT. The debate was instantly deferred, and the galleries cleared.

FRIDAY, December 19.

WILLIAM IRVINE, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Pennsylvania Insurgents.

The House resumed the consideration of the resolutions reported on Wednesday last, from the Committee of the whole House, on the report of the committee to whom was referred that part of the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES which relates to the policy of indemnifying the sufferers by the depredations of the insurgents in the Western counties of Pennsylvania. Whereupon,

The first resolution being under consideration, in the following words, to wit:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to cause an ascertainment to be made of the losses sustained by the officers of Government and other citizens, in their property, (in consequence of their exertions in support of the laws,) by the insurgents in the Western counties of Pennsylvania."

The amendment of Mr. BOUDINOT, on which the House had been debating on Wednesday, was read. It was for the insertion, after the words "and other citizens," of the following addition: "personally aiding and assisting them."

Mr. HARTLEY then rose, and spoke as follows: I have no great encouragement to speak, when I find that my expressions and language have been totally mistaken, both by gentlemen in this House and by the person who frequently reports the debates. On Tuesday, I had ventured to say, that I thought no great reliance could be had upon the individuals injured obtaining satisfaction by personal actions against the insurgents; that I imagined the civil remedy was merged in the offence of arson against the State, or perhaps a higher offence; that, from the state of things, we could not promise ourselves that the sufferers would be compensated by civil suits.

On Wednesday, I mentioned to the House, that, though there had been much discussion, yet, as I considered part of the House to labor under what I held to be a mistake with respect to the lex loci, or law of the State, which we were obliged to take into view, I held it my duty to observe, that, the day before, I had said that I thought the smaller offence, that is, the civil injury, had been merged in the greater against society; that the offence, so far as related to the State, would be arson, which had been a capital offence, punishable with death, that the punishment had been mitigated by the alteration of the penal code, but still it was a felony. I noticed that I had formerly read law a good deal with considerable attention, but since I had been in Congress, I had not been able to bestow much time upon it. I said that formerly certain principles or maxims had made impression upon my mind; that, among others, was the one under consideration, that, in arson, the injury to the individual was merged in that against society, or, at least, must give way to the other; and public justice must be done in the first place. I mentioned that I had consulted one of the first law officers of the State, which is true, and he agreed with me in opinion. Indeed, he added, that no reliance should be had upon the personal remedy, but that compensation ought to be made to the sufferers.

I have no reason to change my former opinion. Really, when I consider the conduct of the commissioners to those who made their submissions, I should imagine it was the intention of the parties that there was to be an oblivion as well of the civil as the criminal offences to those who submitted; and, as the Legislature has the power to construe the agreement, it becomes her rather to do it with magnanimity than otherwise.

Your officers, and those aiding and assisting them, ought to be protected and supported. I will now say, as I did the other day, that the fear of having their houses or barns burned, terrified many a man in the Western country from joining the standard of the law, and forced him to temporize with rebellion. When the officers know that they are to be protected in their persons and property--when the posse comitatus are informed that they are to be regarded in like manner--we may expect energy in the execution of the laws. The law of Pennsylvania is defective, or at least doubtful; and, if the present punishment for arson continues, the Legislature of that State will, I dare say, point out a decided remedy for the party injured against the offender. It becomes the honor and justice of the Legislature to protect and support the officers, and those aiding them. I shall, therefore, vote for the amendment.

Mr. VENABLE differed entirely from the gentleman who spoke last. He understood that pardons extended only to the offences against Government. It would, for that reason, be no hardship against the people who had received pardons to prosecute them for civil damages; and, by the statement of the member himself, actions would lie where no public prosecutions had been made.

Mr. SWIFT was of opinion that the member from Pennsylvania (Mr. HARTLEY) was most certainly mistaken in point of law, when he imagined that the pardon granted by the commissioners extended, or might be construed to a remission of civil offences. He did not believe it to be in the power of Government to pardon these rioters and trespassers to that length. He did not expect that the gentleman from Pennsylvania would have stood up in the House to recommend an unqualified pardon. When a million of dollars had been expended, were the House to give them fifteen or twenty thousand dollars more? He did not come there prepared to hear of a premium for insurrection. He rejected all idea of so much tenderness for rioters and rebels.

Mr. BOUDINOT rejected all idea of the rioters being exempted from civil suits. There was but one exception, where they were executed for their crimes. He had no other view of the matter, but as a question of policy--whether it was expedient, or the contrary, to prosecute these people. He believed that, before the new constitution, the law stood as the member from Pennsylvania represented it. But all this was much from the purpose. By far the greater number of the rioters have accepted the amnesty. Nobody imagines them exempted from prosecution. To prevent any misconception of this nature, the commissioners, in the terms of pardon which they held out, expressly warned the people that they were to be liable to civil actions for the damages committed. It was needless, then, to embarrass the question with more difficulties than naturally belonged to it. He was satisfied that this was a mere question of policy, whether it was better to pay off these people at once, or let them first try the effects of civil actions.

Mr. DAYTON rose and asked, "Who shall decide, when doctors disagree?" Who shall declare what is the law, when the learned gentlemen of the bar are so directly opposed to each other? The House (Mr. D. observed) had, by some means, imperceptibly, and, he thought, unnecessarily, been drawn into the discussion of a common law question. Law had been aptly compared to a bottomless pit, and the sooner, therefore, that they extricated themselves from it, the better. Very fortunately, (he said,) there existed no necessity for determining, in the present cases, upon any intricate point of law, as the proposals of amnesty, in their very terms, as well as in their nature, left each individual trespasser liable to suits at law on the part of the friends of good order, for the damages sustained by the one and done by the other. Mr. D. was for allowing those prosecutions to go forward, and was well informed, not only that there was far more than sufficient of the property of the insurgents to make compensation, but that it was probable they would agree together, and make up the whole among themselves, rather than be vexed by lawsuits. He could not agree with those gentlemen who expressed a wish to vote for the whole amount of damages, immediately to be paid from the Treasury. He did not believe with them, that such a measure would promote the dignity, or manifest the justice, of the Government. This would be to enter into an improper compromise with guilt. It would be to make peace with sedition, in a way that might tend to encourage rather than, to discourage it in future. We were obligated, upon principle and precedent, to ensure indemnity to those officers of Government, who, in consequence of a prompt and steady discharge of their duty, had suffered in their property from the resentment of the insurgents. But he wished not to do more, until the result of actions at law could be ascertained. Although the Government may offer a pardon for offences against the public, yet nothing was more clear than that the general amnesty did not, and could not, exempt the seditious offenders from answering to private persons for injuries done to them in their property.

Mr. HARTLEY rose to explain. The gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. SWIFT) had mistaken his meaning. He was going on, when

Mr. DAYTON rose, and declared that he had never put any such construction on the words of the gentleman, who certainly must have misapprehended him.

I did not mean you, sir, (said Mr. HARTLEY,) I said the gentleman from Connecticut. You made a mistake of the same kind with me last session.

The amendment of Mr. BOUDINOT was, on a division, lost--only twenty-six gentlemen rising when the question was called for.

The question on the first resolution was then called for; when it was moved to take the previous question, that is to say, "Shall the main question be now put?"

Mr. FITZSIMONS rose. He thought that this discussion comprehended a principle of the most important nature. He trusted that it would not be got rid of in this way. He was not of opinion with those gentlemen who were disposed to waive the question just now, under the notion that they should have an opportunity of voting for it at another time. He believed that the true design of moving the previous question was to lay it aside altogether. This expedient should not answer the end; for, if he had only one other gentleman in the House to second him, he would stand by the matter until he obtained an explicit answer.

Mr. MCDOWELL vindicated the propriety of taking the previous question.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, that when the British carried on a most unjust war against this country, the Ministry who began it were in time turned out. Their successors had always reprobated the war, but, after the peace, they, notwithstanding, had expended several millions to support the loyalists. While the British had acted with so much liberality, did it become Americans to stick at the paltry sum of seventeen thousand dollars? The House had wrangled so long about this matter, that the very wages which they received for the time spent in this discussion would about have discharged the whole sum in dispute. When a wild, unprincipled, mad attempt had been made to destroy this noble constitution, were the Representatives of this people to make it a doubt whether those who saved it from, perhaps, destruction, were to be indemnified? Mr. S. declared that he felt more unpleasant sensations than he remembered ever to have experienced since he became a member of this House. Gentlemen might argue and argue about this drop in the bucket compared with the ocean. They might go into metaphysical deductions about whether the men who saved this constitution were, some of them, to be reduced to beggary and misery, as the price of having done so. He would bring up the question again and again, until he had the sense of the House again. Mr. S. repeated the following argument, which he, on a former day, had pressed. He asked whether persons who, from the pure, conscious dignity of the republican character, stepped forward to support the Government, did not deserve better of it than excise officers, who were bound to and paid for their services? He was even of opinion that the conduct of the private soldiers in this case was more meritorious than that of the officers. He might be mistaken, but his opinion was so. From this language it is not to be inferred that Mr. S. undervalued the exertions of the officers of the army, or of the excise. He only meant that the less interest or emolument which an individual has at stake in the success of an affair, the greater is his merit in performing it. He asked what better time there was than the present for settling the amount of these claims?

Mr. HEATH was for the previous question. He thought the resolution unseasonable at this time. However little the gentleman chose to think of seventeen thousand dollars, they might grow into a precedent for seventeen hundred thousand dollars.

Mr. BOUDINOT thought that the seventeen thousand dollars were not the whole of the damages that might be claimed. When commissioners were sent to the Westward, the demand might rise to seventy thousand. Numerous other requisitions might start up. He was for taking the previous question.

Mr. DEXTER regretted his necessity to differ from a gentleman (Mr. BOUDINOT) for whose opinions he was in the habit of entertaining the highest respect. He was against the previous question, because he disliked obliquity. Whether he was against or for the first resolution in the report of the select committee, he would give the resolution itself a fair meeting. He then inquired what better time there could be for learning the number and extent of the losses than the present? He again explained, as on Wednesday, that the House appeared to mistake the extent of the resolution, which did not imply any complete indemnification, nor even assure any relief at all. The whole amounted only to the taking of measures for obtaining information. He would not have voted for it, if he had thought that it promised complete indemnification. He thought that no future time could be so proper as the present for deciding.

Mr. SWIFT, Mr. KITTERA, and Mr. GILBERT, also spoke.

Mr. HILLHOUSE went on the same ground with Mr. DEXTER. He was one of the committee who drew up the resolutions. They never understood that the resolution implied an assurance of complete indemnity to the sufferers.

The previous question was called for by five members, to wit: "Shall the main question, to agree to the said resolution, be now put?"

And on the previous question, "Shall the said main question be now put?" it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 52, nays 31, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, James Armstrong, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Jonathan Dayton, Henry Dearborn, Samuel Dexter, Gabriel Duvall, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Wilkes Kittera, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, William Lyman, Francis Malbone, William Montgomery, Peter Muhlenberg, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, Andrew Pickens, Thomas Scott, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, Philip Van Cortlandt, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, John Watts, Benjamin Williams, and Richard Winn.

NAYS.--Theodorus Bailey, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Joshua Coit, George Dent, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison, John Heath, John Hunter, Richard Bland Lee, Matthew Locke, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John Nichols, Nathaniel Niles, Robert Rutherford, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Thomas Tredwell, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Paine Wingate, and Joseph Winston.

Mr. GILBERT then moved a resolution, the substance of which was understood to be to ascertain whether the losses in the Western counties were incurred in defence of Government, and how far the sufferers were capable to carry on the lawsuits themselves against the rioters.

Mr. GILES, was against the amendment, the resolution itself, and the whole mode of conducting the business. He had listened to many long speeches, and been surprised that no gentleman had made the observation which he was now going to submit to the House.

[The noise had by this time become so intense, that the SPEAKER rose and reminded the members of a rule that there must be no private conversation while a member addresses the Chair.]

Mr. G. then proceeded to declare that he disliked the form rather than the substance of the resolution. If people in the Western counties had suffered injuries, why should not they, as well as every other class of citizens, come to the bar of that House and petition? An inquest was, he imagined, intended, which would unite all the back country in one common interest against the Treasury of the United States. The mode proposed by the report of the select committee was the most exceptionable of all that could have been devised. It was said that this was only an affair of seventeen thousand dollars. What evidence have we that the demand will stop there? Sir, there is none. The mode is, besides, totally wrong. Let persons who have suffered come here in the usual manner. It is said that a gentleman has had his house burned. Let him come here and tell us so. Mr. G. entirely scouted the idea advanced by Mr. DEXTER, that we might inquire into the extent of the losses, without a design to discharge them. If you do not mean to indemnify, why inquire at all? He did not object to relieving the sufferers, but, to erect a board of inquest, under Presidential direction, was what he never would consent to. He again repeated, that he did not mean to dissent from the principle, but from this most exceptionable of all modes for putting it into practice. Let people lay memorials of their losses before the House, which would then see distinctly what it was doing, and examine the evidence on which the claim was founded. He wondered that none of all the speakers in the debate had adverted to this distinction.

Mr. HILLHOUSE differed in every particular from the gentleman who spoke last. If petitioners come from the Westward, they are referred to a select committee. They bring all the evidence which they can muster to swell their bill. The committee have no counter-evidence, as we in this House almost never hear more than one of the parties. It is much better to send persons to the spot who can examine the subject on both sides, which we cannot possibly do, and who will be responsible to this House for their conduct. The whole arguments and ideas of Mr. H. were in direct contradiction to every thing advanced by Mr. GILES. He (Mr. H.) was satisfied that, before we undertook to pay the losses of the Western people, it was better, in the first place, to know the extent of them. The resolution amounted to nothing more than the ascertaining of this loss, and Mr. H. could see many good reasons for deferring the payment of a bill until he knew the sum to which it amounted. He could also see reasons why the mode recommended in the resolution was much preferable to that of bringing people so far to the House. Commissioners going to the spot could make themselves perfectly masters of the subject; whereas, if the parties come here, the matter will be decided on ex parte evidence, as it always is.

Mr. BOUDINOT considered the resolution as too loosely worded. A gentleman who had been on the expedition, and who had heard or read the report, observed to him (Mr. B.) that he himself came within the resolution, as he had suffered considerably in his business by his absence.

Mr. HILLHOUSE explained, that the resolution extended only to actual destruction. The committee never meant to compensate people for the loss which they had suffered by being banished. He was ready, if the House liked it better, to insert in the first resolution the words "property actually destroyed." This would prevent the misapprehension of the gentleman mentioned by Mr. BOUDINOT.

The House divided on the amendment of Mr. GILBERT--ayes 39, noes 33.

Mr. HILLHOUSE then moved to strike out the word "in" from the first resolution, and put into its place, "by the actual destruction of" their property.

Mr. MADISON apprehended that this amendment left the resolution as bad as it was before, if not worse. A person in the Western counties had his horse stolen by the insurgents. But this did not imply the actual destruction or annihilation of the horse. The amendment meant either too much or too little. It certainly could be no improvement on the resolution.

After some further discussion, the amendment was agreed to.

And the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said resolution, amended to read as follows:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to cause an ascertainment to be made of the losses sustained by the officers of Government, and other citizens, by the actual destruction of their property (in consequence of their exertions in support of the laws) by insurgents in the Western counties of Pennsylvania; together with a report of the particular condition of the respective sufferers, in relation to their ability to prosecute their several claims, and recover, at law, satisfaction from the insurgent aggressors."

It was resolved in the affirmative.

The second resolution on the subject of indemnification was then taken up in the House.

Mr. BOUDINOT moved the following amendatory addition:

"To aid such of the sufferers as, in his (the President's) opinion, stand in need of immediate assistance, to be accounted for by them in such manner as may hereafter be directed by law."

The amendment was carried, forty-four gentlemen rising.

The resolution, as amended, is as follows:

"Resolved, That the President be authorized to draw out of the Treasury of the United States the sum of ---- dollars, to be applied by him to aid such of the said sufferers as, in his opinion, stand in need of immediate assistance, to be accounted for by them in such manner as may hereafter be directed by law."

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolutions; and that Mr. HILLHOUSE, Mr. FINDLAY, Mr. LYMAN, Mr. WATTS, and Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, do prepare and bring in the same.

FRIDAY, December 26.

Two other members, to wit: JEREMIAH WADSWORTH, from Connecticut; and SAMUEL SMITH, from Maryland, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Naturalization Bill.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill to amend the act, entitled "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

Mr. GILES proposed to amend the intended test of a citizen, by adding, after "two witnesses giving evidence as to his moral character," these words: "attached to a Republican form of Government." He thought this test proper, to prevent those poisonous communications from Europe, of which gentlemen were so much afraid.

Mr. DEXTER preferred saying, "attached to the Constitution of the United States."

To this amendment Mr. GILES had little or no objection.

Mr. BOUDINOT did not see the use of either amendment. It was only giving unnecessary trouble. The oath which the person himself must take, was sufficient for expressing his fidelity to the Government of this country.

Mr. NICHOLAS considered both the amendment, and the clause to which it was annexed, as unnecessary; and even if in themselves proper, they were misplaced. He thought both equally superfluous. They should have been inserted in the oath of allegiance of the man himself.

Mr. DAYTON hoped that the whole clause would be rejected. He should be against it, unless the nature of the evidence was referred to a Court of Justice. He foresaw many difficulties arising to poor men in attempting to get two such witnesses. It might suit extremely well with merchants and men of large capital, who had, he supposed, been alluded to the other day, under the title of meritorious emigrants. He was not so anxious for them as for useful laboring people, who, as he thought, would be more likely to do good. This class, however, had never, it was likely, troubled their heads about forms of Government. He further objected to the amendment of the gentleman from Virginia, that the word Republican was entirely equivocal. This title was assumed by many Governments in Europe, which were upon principles entirely different from ours. Some of them, such as Poland, had been Aristocracies of the most hideous form.

Mr. DEXTER hoped that the amendment of Mr. GILES would not pass, [Mr. GILES had, as before noticed, consented to withdraw it;] not so much for the sake of the principle, as of the language in which it was expressed. The word Republican implied so much, that nobody could tell where to limit it. Why use so hackneyed a word? Many call themselves Republicans, who, by this word, mean pulling down every establishment: they were mere Anarchists.

Mr. HILLHOUSE was equally against the clause and amendment. Mr. DEXTER and Mr. GILES previously declared themselves extremely doubtful whether they should even vote for the clause, when amended in their own way.

Mr. GILES felt himself extremely surprised to hear it asserted on the floor of Congress, that the words "Republican form of Government" meant any thing or nothing. He read a passage from the constitution, whereby a Republican form of Government is guaranteed to each of the United States composing the Union. He should, therefore, have imagined that the words were well understood from one end of the Continent to the other. He did not expect such criticism. He was not sure if he should vote for the clause at all; but if he did so, he should wish the best to be made of it. He then altered his amendment to these words: "attached to the principles of the Government of the United States."

Mr. DAYTON.--With all the ambition of that gentleman (Mr. GILES) to be called a Democrat, both he and Mr. D. would more properly be called Republicans. He again vindicated his assertion as to the equivocal meaning of the word. A Venetian or Genoese might come to this country, and take the oath as proposed, and then excuse himself by saying, "it was the Republican form of my own country which I had in view." One of the best writers on the British Constitution had called that also a Republic.

Mr. MADISON was of opinion that the word was well enough understood to signify a free Representative Government, deriving its authority from the people, and calculated for their benefit; and thus far the amendment of his colleague was sufficiently proper. Mr. M. doubted whether he himself should, however, vote for the clause, thus amended. It would, perhaps, be very difficult for many citizens to find two reputable witnesses, who could swear to the purity of their principles for three years back. Many useful and virtuous members of the community may be thrown into the greatest difficulties, by such a procedure. In three years time, a person may have shifted his residence from one end of the Continent to the other. How then was he to find evidence of his behavior during such a length of time? But he objected to both amendments on a different ground. It was hard to make a man swear that he preferred the Constitution of the United States, or to give any general opinion, because he may, in his own private judgment, think Monarchy or Aristocracy better, and yet be honestly determined to support this Government as he finds it.

Mr. HILLHOUSE then proposed as an amendment, to insert, that "evidence should be produced to the satisfaction of the Court."

Mr. DEXTER mentioned the abuses that have happened in the present form of admitting citizens. He did not comprehend the argument of Mr. DAYTON, that it would be more easy for a rich than for a poor man to get evidences to swear to his having resided in the country. If he had not, the fact was of a notorious nature. It would likewise be as easy for a poor man, as for a rich one, to get an attestation of his character. The point of residence was, in itself, but little. A man may have resided here for a long time, and defrauded the citizens, which would be no recommendation.

Several other gentlemen spoke. The resolution finally passed.

The second resolution produced a long conversation, in the course of which Mr. MURRAY declared that he was quite indifferent if not fifty emigrants came into this Continent in a year's time. It would be unjust to hinder them, but impolitic to encourage them. He was afraid that, coming from a quarter of the world so full of disorder and corruption, they might contaminate the purity and simplicity of the American character.

The committee now rose, and had leave to sit again.

MONDAY, December 29.

Naturalization Bill.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill to amend the act entitled, "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

The motion before the committee, made by Mr. VENABLE, when they broke off the last discussion, had been to strike the word "moral" out of this amendment: "good moral character." These three words, altogether, were an addition of what was to be attested by the witnesses for a candidate to admission as a citizen.

Mr. DEXTER opened the debate on the amendment of Mr. VENABLE to the amendment by saying, that he wished to hear the reasons for it.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, that he did not make the motion, but his colleague, who had made it, thought that the insertion of the word "moral" gave too strict an air to the sentence. This word might be hereafter implied to mean something relative to religious opinions.

Mr. SEDGWICK remarked, that if no better reason than that advanced by Mr. NICHOLAS could be given for striking out the word "moral," he could not agree to it. Moral is opposed to immoral, but has no particular reference whatever to religion, or whether a man believes any thing or nothing. It has no reference to religious opinions. We can every where tell, by the common voice of the world, whether a man is moral or not in his life, without difficulty. In some States of the Union, adultery is not punishable by law, yet it is every where said to be an immoral action. It is too nice to make a distinction between a good character and a good moral character. The word good itself is very equivocal in its meaning. It signifies any thing, every thing, or nothing. A good companion is one thing; a good man, as applied to wealth, conveys a different sense; and so on.

Mr. B. BOURNE considered the amendment itself and the motion of Mr. VENABLE to strike out the word "moral," as equally useless.

Mr. MURRAY hoped that the word would not be struck out. This would be the greatest slander ever cast upon the American character. It would excite the surprise of foreign nations.

Mr. VENABLE had thought the wording of the phrase too strict; but rather than have any further dispute, he withdrew his motion for striking out the word "moral."

The clause was then read as amended.

Mr. GILBERT thought that the term of residence, before admitting aliens, ought to be very much longer than mentioned in the bill. The Chairman informed him that the term in the bill was left blank.

Mr. SEDGWICK agreed to the idea of Mr. GILBERT. He wished that a method could be found of permitting aliens to possess and transmit property, without, at the same time, giving them a right to vote. He did not know if the constitution authorized such a thing.

After some further conversation, the clause passed. The third resolution in the report was then read; which was, that if an American citizen chose to expatriate himself, he should not be allowed to enter into the list of citizens again without a special act of Congress, and of the State from which he had gone.

Mr. MADISON did not think that Congress, by the constitution, had any authority to readmit American citizens at all. It was only granted to them to admit aliens.

Mr. SEDGWICK was very willing, for his part, that citizens who had once expatriated themselves should never be readmitted again.

The committee, on two successive motions to that effect, from Mr. Madison and Mr. GILES, rose. The Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again, which was granted.

WEDNESDAY, December 31.

LEMUEL BENTON, from South Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

THURSDAY, January 1, 1795.

Naturalization Bill.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments reported yesterday from the Committee of the whole House, to the bill to amend the act entitled, "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization."

The House went through the report of the committee, and agreed to the amendments.

Mr. GILES then rose to make his promised motion as to the exclusion of any foreign emigrant from citizenship who had borne a title of nobility in Europe till he had formally renounced it. He proceeded to observe that, agreeably to the spirit of the constitution, we ought to have the strongest possible evidence that people of this description have renounced all pretence to a right of this nature, before we admit them into the bosom of society. Moderation had been recommended. He requested gentlemen to observe that he conducted his motion on the strictest principles of moderation. He had, in a former part of this bill, voted for some clauses which were intended to guard the Government against any disturbance from the people called Jacobins, when their principles should run to a dangerous and seditious extreme. The same spirit of candor and moderation which had induced him to vote for a precaution against the attempts of the one party, now led him to propose a precaution against the prejudices of the aristocrats, which were, upon the whole, more hostile to the spirit of the American constitution than those of their antagonists. He also requested gentlemen to observe that his present motion went not to the invasion of any positive right. It left the individual exactly where it found him, unless he aspired to be an American citizen. Otherwise, he might retain his titles undisturbed as long as he pleased. But if he wanted any promotion of a civil nature in this country, he must rise to it by conforming exactly to the rules laid down by the constitution itself. That code had declared no titled character admissible to any civil rank. It was not to be supposed that people born and nurtured in the lap of aristocracy would heartily renounce their titles, and become all at once sincere Republicans. It was, therefore, highly improper that such people should be admitted. If we are allowed to anticipate probabilities, it seems highly probable that we shall soon have a great number of this kind of persons here. A revolution is now going onward, to which there is nothing similar in history. A large portion of Europe has already declared against titles, and where the innovations are to stop, no man can presume to guess. There is at present no law in the United States by which a foreigner can be hindered from voting at elections, or even from coming into this House; and if a great number of these fugitive nobility come over, they may soon acquire considerable influence. The tone of thinking may insensibly change in the course of a few years, and no person can say how far such a matter may spread. After these, and other prefatory remarks, Mr. G. read a resolution, which was in effect as follows:

"And in case any alien applying for admission to citizenship of the United States, shall have borne any title or order of nobility in any Kingdom or State from whence he may come, he must renounce all pretensions to his title before the court in which such application shall be made; and this renunciation must be registered in the said court."

Mr. G. observed, that previous to the late revolution, the French nobility were, by the lowest calculation, rated at twenty thousand; and as we may conclude on France being successful, a great proportion of these people may be finally expected here.

Mr. DEXTER declared that he was not very anxious against the resolution. He, however, opposed it. He imagined that, by the same mode of reasoning, we might hinder his Holiness the Pope from coming into this country. He entered at some length into the ridicule of certain tenets in the Roman Catholic religion, and said that priestcraft had done more mischief than aristocracy.

Mr. MADISON said that the question was not perhaps so important as some gentlemen supposed; nor of so little consequence as others seem to think it. It is very probable that the spirit of Republicanism will pervade a great part of Europe. It is hard to guess what numbers of titled characters may, by such an event, be thrown out of that part of the world. What can be more reasonable than that when crowds of them come here, they should be forced to renounce every thing contrary to the spirit of the constitution. He did not approve the ridicule attempted to be thrown out on the Roman Catholics. In their religion there was nothing inconsistent with the purest republicanism. In Switzerland, about one-half of the Cantons were of the Roman Catholic persuasion. Some of the most democratical Cantons were so; Cantons where every man gave his vote for a representative. Americans had no right to ridicule Catholics. They had, many of them, proved good citizens during the Revolution. As to hereditary titles, they were proscribed by the constitution. He would not wish to have a citizen, who refused such an oath.

Mr. PAGE was for the motion of his colleague. It did not become that House to be afraid of introducing democratical principles. Titles only gave a particular class of men a right to be insolent, and another class a pretence to be mean and cringing. The principle will come in by degrees, and produce mischievous effects here as well as elsewhere. If such men do come here, nothing can be more grateful to a Republican than to see them renounce their titles. This does not amount to any demand of making them renounce their principles. If they do not aspire to be citizens, they may assume as many titles as they think fit. Equality is the basis of good order and society, whereas titles turn every thing wrong. Mr. P. said that a scavenger was as necessary to the health of a city as any one of its magistrates. It was proper, therefore, not to lose sight of equality, and to prevent, as far as possible, any opportunities of being insolent. He did not want to see a duke come here and contest an election for Congress with a citizen.

Mr. SEDGWICK was really at a loss to see what end this motion could answer. He agreed with the arguments of Mr. GILES. But the point in view was explicitly provided for already. By taking an oath of citizenship, the individual not only renounces but solemnly abjures nobility. The title is destroyed when the allegiance is broken by his oath being taken to this Government. This abjuration has destroyed all connection with the old Government. Why then provide for it a second time?

Mr. GILES said, that by admitting a thing to have been once done, it was admitted that it might be done again. If it had been right to do it once, there could be no harm in repeating it. The member then quoted Mr. DEXTER, who rose and declared that the gentleman had misunderstood him. He spoke for some time, and when he sat down--

Mr. GILES declared himself incapable of comprehending whether Mr. DEXTER was for his motion or against it. He therefore proceeded to reply to Mr. SEDGWICK, whose chief argument had been that the thing was provided for already. He did not suppose that this gentleman would allege the matter to be explicitly provided for. It only could be so by implication; which was a very bad way of making a law, because it gave room for endless disputes. If the thing is in itself right, why refuse to vote directly for it? Why leave it only to be implied? He wished to let foreigners know expressly the ground upon which they stood. Why not tell them at once, and in plain English, you must renounce your titles before you can have the privileges of an American citizen? Mr. G. pressed home this idea more than once. He meant no act of inhospitality to these emigrants. He would deprive them of no right, nor do any thing unkind to them. But he was entitled, by the spirit of the constitution, to withhold this right from them till they renounced all hereditary titles. This was no incivility. He concluded by declaring that he would, if supported, call for the yeas and nays on this question. A number of members rose to support this proposal.

Mr. NICHOLAS had no objection to the motion, but that it did not go far enough. The emigrants ought to be obliged to swear not only that they abjured all titles hitherto received, but that they would never accept of any in future. He believed that this would hurt their feelings, and, sympathizing with them, he would not urge a proposal that might add to their distress, but should vote for the motion as it stood.

Mr. SCOTT was sorry that so much time had been spent on the motion. We are not by the constitution authorized to make titles; and he apprehended that if it was unlawful to manufacture a commodity at home, it was unlawful to import it from abroad. On this account he was for the resolution. If once we allow the thing to be manufactured at all, he had no doubt but titles would be as prevalent here as in Britain. He should think it very odd to see a man sitting opposite to him in that House, with a star and garter on his breast. The emigrant was as welcome to wear them as to wear his hat. Only let him wear them out of doors.

Mr. TRACY thought that more time had been spent upon the subject than it was worth. He mentioned the proceedings of the French Convention, who, some time before they cut off the head of the Duke of Orleans, debated four days upon what name they should give him, and at last called him Egalité. He feared that calling for the yeas and nays thus early would look like party, as if intended to cast an odium on gentlemen who should vote against the motion.

Mr. DEXTER would vote for the resolution, if the gentleman would agree to an amendment; which was, that he renounced all possession of slaves.

Mr. THATCHER moved as a second amendment, "and that he never will possess them."

The words of Mr. DEXTER's amendment were nearly these: "And also, in case any such alien shall hold any person in slavery, he shall renounce it, and declare that he holds all men free and equal."

Mr. GILES said, that he should begin to think his motion of very peculiar importance, if such extraordinary resources were adopted to disappoint it. He was sorry to see slavery made a jest of in that House. He understood this to be intended as a hint against members from the Southern States. It had no proper connection with the subject before the House. He had therefore no scruple in voting against it. It was calculated to injure the property of gentlemen. As to slavery, he lamented and detested it; but, from the existing state of the country, it was impossible at present to help it. He himself owned slaves. He regretted that he did so, and if any member could point out a way in which he could be properly freed from that situation, he should rejoice in it. The thing was reducing as fast as could prudently be done. He believed that slavery was infinitely more deprecated in countries where it actually existed, and consequently where its evils were known, than in other countries where it was only an object of conversation. Gentlemen had objected to calling for the yeas and nays. Have not the public a right to know the sentiments of the House on every question? Was it any unusual thing to call for the yeas and nays? Or was there any use for it but that the sentiments of every member might be known?

Mr. MADISON mentioned regulations adopted in Virginia for gradually reducing the number of slaves. None were allowed to be imported into the State. The operation of reducing the number of slaves was going on as quickly as possible. The mention of such a thing in the House had in the mean time a very bad effect on that species of property, otherwise he did not know but what he should have voted for the amendment of Mr. DEXTER. It had a dangerous tendency on the minds of these unfortunate people.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, that Mr. DEXTER had more than on one occasion hinted his opinion that possessors of slaves were unfit to hold any Legislative trust in a Republican Government. He was solicitous that before Mr. D. spoke on a subject, he would make himself in some degree acquainted with it. He ought to acquire some information as to the state of the country, otherwise his opinion would fall into contempt with those who knew it. Mr. N. said, that gentlemen who possessed a thousand slaves in Virginia had no more influence on their neighbor who had not one than that neighbor had on them.

Mr. DEXTER complained of the attempt to take the yeas and nays, as a design to hold up certain people to public odium. He would withdraw his amendment if the gentleman would withdraw his motion.

Mr. SEDGWICK rose in some warmth. He said that there was no design in calling for the yeas and nays but to fix a stigma upon gentlemen in that House as friends to a nobility, when they were no such thing, and to raise a popular odium against them. To propose an abolition of slavery in this country would be the height of madness. Here the slaves are, and here they must remain.

A question of adjournment was now carried by 43 against 29. So the motion of Mr. GILES stands over till to-morrow.

FRIDAY, January 2.

Naturalization Bill.

The House resumed the consideration of the amendments reported on Wednesday last from the Committee of the whole House to the bill to amend the act entitled "An act to establish a uniform rule of naturalization." Whereupon,

The amendment moved yesterday to the said bill being under consideration, in the words following, to wit:

"And in case any such alien applying for admission to become a citizen of the United States, shall have borne any hereditary title, or been of any of the orders of nobility in the kingdom or state from which he came, in addition to the requisites of this, and the before recited act, he shall make an express renunciation of his title, or order of nobility, in the Court to which his application shall be made, before he shall be entitled to such admission; which renunciation shall be recorded in the said Court."

A motion was made and seconded to amend the said amendment, by adding to the end thereof the words following, to wit:

"And, also, in case such alien shall, at the time of his application, hold any person in slavery, he shall in the same manner renounce all right and claim to hold such person in slavery."

On the question that the House do agree to the said amendment to the amendment,

Mr. BOURNE said he was against both amendments. He saw no use either for the one or the other. He recapitulated the numerous checks which the constitution had framed against nobility getting into it. He, therefore, with all these checks, could see no danger from it. So much for the expediency of the proposal. He next considered it in a different point of view. A foreigner comes, perhaps with a title, which he has derived from a long train of ancestors, and, with a very pardonable infirmity, he is fond, he is perhaps proud, of his badge of nobility. Is it polite, is it generous, to force him to renounce it? If it is an hereditary title, he can renounce only for himself. His children shall inherit the right. Mr. B. wished both amendments withdrawn.

Mr. RUTHERFORD said, the people of America had an exceeding aversion to the bubble of nobility. He had so much confidence in the wisdom, good sense, and public spirit, of the gentlemen in this House, that he was sure the amendment would be carried by a very great majority. He was equally certain that the amendment of the other gentleman (Mr. DEXTER) would be rejected. It went to wound the feelings and alienate the affections of six or eight States in the Union. He was against the yeas and nays. He wished for a silent vote.

Mr. MCDOWELL.--When the gentleman from Massachusetts first brought forward the motion on the table, Mr. McD. could not think he was sincere, from the idea which he had formed of the candor and good sense of that gentleman. But, much to his surprise, Mr. D. persisted in supporting the propriety of his motion, which is not only an indirect attack on the State Governments, but even on the constitution of the United States, and on the members of this House who represent the Southern States. This amendment not only tends to irritate the minds of members, but of thousands of the good citizens in the Southern States, as it affects the property which they have acquired by their industry. Thus it cools their affections towards the Government, as they will find that one part of the Government is about to operate on their property in an indirect way. The gentleman dare not come directly forward, and tell the House, that men who possess slaves are unfit for holding an office under a Republican Government. Mr. McD. recalled to the mind of the House the conduct of the people that compose the Southern States, during the late war, and their struggle for American Independence. He then bade the House review the behavior of their Representatives, under the present Government, and say whether they do not partake more of the Republican spirit than the members from the Eastern States. The latter, also, no doubt had members who did honor to the States which they represented, and to the United States. He thought the amendment of Mr. DEXTER partook more of monarchical or despotic principles than any thing which he had seen for some time. What right had the House to say to a particular class of people, you shall not have that kind of property which other people have? This was the language of the motion, and he considered it as highly unjust. Mr. McD. wished the gentleman to consider what might be the consequence of his motion, at this time, when the West Indies are transformed into an immense scene of slaughter. When thousands of people had been massacred, and thousands had fled for refuge to this country, when the proprietors of slaves in this country could only keep them in peace with the utmost difficulty, was this a time for such inflammatory motions? He was amazed that a gentleman of whom he had so high an opinion, could, for a moment, embrace an idea which was, in all points of view, so extremely improper and dangerous.

Mr. DEXTER chiefly excused his motion because the other gentlemen had been for taking the yeas and nays. The tenor of his argument seemed to be this: You want to hold us up to the public as aristocrats. I, as a retaliation, will hold you up to the same public as dealers in slaves. Mr. D., however, did not wish to irritate. He, for that reason, withdrew his motion, under the hope that the yeas and nays would not be taken.

Mr. GILES said, that no person could be more anxious than himself to conciliate. But he could not submit to purchase conciliation by sacrificing his opinion, or betraying his duty. He should, on that account, stand by his amendment. It had been said that he called for the yeas and nays for the purpose of holding up to popular detestation a certain party in that House. Such an idea had never entered into his mind. He then commenced a vindication of the propriety of his amendment against the observations of Mr. BOURNE, who had, among other things, alleged that it had no proper relation to the spirit of the Naturalization Bill. After defending it, on this quarter, Mr. G. proceeded to answer something that had been alleged yesterday against his amendment. This was that it had been calculated to hold up an idea to the world, that there was a party in that House in favor of Aristocracy. If there is no such party, a general vote for the amendment will prove that this report is without foundation. In reality there is no connection between the amendment and any such scheme. The idea must have been in the head of the member himself. It is not the amendment, but the use which the gentleman makes of it, that can have any tendency that way. Mr. G. never could have thought of such a way of holding up a party. As to the amendment of Mr. DEXTER, he, Mr. G., held property sacred, and never could have consented to prohibit the emigrant nobility from having slaves any more than other people. But as for titles of nobility, they were quite a different thing. They were but a name, and people were not obliged even to give them up, unless they wanted to become American citizens. As the call of yeas and nays had given such uncommon uneasiness, he, for his own part, should give it up. He was careless how the vote was taken. The other gentlemen who supported his call might act for themselves.

Mr. LEE said, he hoped that to-day the question would have been taken without further debate; he had no disposition to say any thing more on it, and should have remained silent if his colleague (Mr. GILES) had not made some strictures on the observations which fell from him on the preceding day.

Mr. L. always thought the Eastern and Southern States were well situated to unite on terms of the greatest reciprocal benefit. That, for the good of his own country, he valued such a union above all things. He knew, in particular, that it was highly important to the interests of the people whom he represented, to conciliate the cordial and affectionate esteem of their Eastern brethren. That this was not only important to his constituents, but to the whole State, and all the Southern country; as on it must materially depend the preservation of our Union, which Mr. L. feared was more necessary to our safety and prosperity than to theirs. Mr. L. said, he never saw any reason to suspect the Eastern people of anti-Republican principles; that there was no just ground to accuse them of such principles in any manner. Mr. L. had always thought that the Southern country had no right to claim a superiority over their Eastern brethren in Republican virtue. Mr. L. always lamented that his country was not, in some points, so fortunately situated as the Eastern States; but still, he rejoiced to find just ideas of liberty, and a proper respect to the rights of men, animating all the citizens of it; and in public virtue they had a right to rank with their brethren to the North and East of them. Mr. L. thought that his colleague's strongest argument was the corrupting relation which existed in Europe between noblemen and their dependants. Mr. L. feared that this argument might too readily be extended to the situation of this country, and conclusions very disparaging to their Republican virtue drawn from it, from which he had felt it his duty to vindicate them.

Mr. L. believed that the people throughout America were all animated by an equal zeal for the liberty and happiness of their country. As a person, therefore, anxious to preserve our harmony and union, he always felt pain at any question, which was, in any degree, calculated to excite suspicions of each other, and produce enmity, when concord was so much the interest of all. This proposition had, to his mind, a very denunciating aspect; and, as such, he felt it his duty to discountenance it, and every thing of the same sort, without presuming to ascertain or question the motives or designs of the mover. Mr. L. could not help viewing the motion as capable of guarding us from no one danger, but as well fitted to produce unnecessary alarm and irritation.

Mr. L. was indifferent how the question was decided; but, being a friend to harmony and union, he could by no means countenance by his vote any thing that might be construed to denounce a most respectable and patriotic part of this House.

Mr. HILLHOUSE observed, that when the amendment was first introduced, he considered it as altogether harmless and unnecessary; but, being friendly to what appeared to be the object of the mover, that is, keeping out privileged orders from among us, he was inclined to vote for it. Yet, upon more mature reflection, he was of opinion that if the provision contained in the amendment had any effect at all, it would be a directly contrary one from what was intended, and would indirectly establish the principle that privileged orders might be introduced and exist among us, a principle which he wholly rejected and reprobated; and, as he did not doubt that the views of the gentleman who moved the amendment were similar to his own on that subject, he hoped that, upon further consideration, he (Mr. GILES) would withdraw it. It was his opinion that the ground upon which foreigners should be admitted to a share in the administration of our Government ought to be narrowed in every possible way, and if the gentleman would so modify the amendment as wholly to exclude that class of foreigners, or any other, from ever becoming citizens, so far as to elect or to be elected to any office, he would most heartily join in giving his vote for it. In those nations where privileged orders are admitted, the benefits and advantages arising from it have been considered as merely local, so that, if a nobleman removes from one nation to another, he is not considered as carrying with him the privileges of his order; as, for instance, if a nobleman from any other nation removes to England, where an hereditary nobility is established by law, and even becomes naturalized, he is not a peer of England; he is no more than a private subject, and can claim nothing on account of his former rank. The Convention who formed our constitution undoubtedly viewed the subject in that light, or they would have been equally anxious to have provided against the importation as of the creation of nobility; but, passing this amendment will, as far as the influence of a law and the opinion of Congress can go, be putting a different and wrong construction upon the constitution, and will be admitting that there may be some other mode of introducing a privileged order or a nobility among us, than the one guarded against in the constitution; for, if a law is passed requiring a person, before he shall be admitted to a certain privilege, to renounce some other privilege, it is clearly admitting that such person does or may possess such privilege, otherwise the law is futile, requiring a person to renounce what he does not or cannot possess.

Mr. J. WADSWORTH rose next. He had been up four times before, but, other gentlemen always rising along with him, he had sat down again. Mr. W. said, that a rage against nobility and privileged orders now pervades the whole world. He really did not see the use of this amendment. It put him in mind of an old law which, within his memory, had been in use. When a man had shot himself, his neighbors were not contented with the certainty of his being dead in this world, and damned in the next, but, besides all this, they drove a stake through his body. Mr. W. regarded nobility as in a similar situation with such a man, for nobility appeared to him in the certain road to instant destruction; and this amendment of Mr. GILES, he thought, was like driving in the stake. The latter practice had been laid aside, and he thought that the amendment deserved the same fate. He reminded the House that the time had been when America was very much indebted to nobility, and very glad to see them fight her battles. We might now be taxed with ingratitude on that head, for some of those identical French noblemen, who, during the late war, had rendered us essential service, were now in this country in a state of beggary, subsisting on the charity of their friends. Others of the same noblemen were in dungeons, and some again had got their heads chopped off. He was warranted to say that many of those noblemen, when here, during the war, and long before a French revolution had been talked of, were, in their hearts, as good Republicans as any Americans whatever. We had seen, some time ago, a party spirit rising in the United States. He had observed that the thing was dying away, but the present amendment would afford a new theme. The newspapers are extremely numerous, and he doubted not that the writers in them would embrace so notable an opportunity for exercising their talents. As to the notion that there was a danger of nobility being introduced into this country, the thing was held in such detestation in America, that he had no more apprehension of its obtaining a footing here than he had that there would arise a new race of men without heads, or with their heads placed below their shoulders, or any other unnatural production. In short, he did not know a thing so impossible as the establishment of an American nobility. Knowing this, he regarded the amendment as entirely useless. As to the call for the yeas and nays having an impression on his vote, that was out of the question. He knew his constituents, and they knew him; and they were both too well acquainted with each other for a trifle of this nature to have any influence. To him the call was a matter of the utmost indifference, and he took this opportunity to declare frankly that he should vote against the amendment, whether the yeas and nays were called or not.

Mr. NICHOLAS could not consent to abandon the proposition. It might be said that he did so in terror of the amendment of Mr. DEXTER, which he thoroughly despised.

Mr. BOUDINOT had not designed to speak on this question, but there was one objection to the amendment, which occurred to him, and which had not been noticed by any gentleman. This was, that it would be an act of injustice to make a man do an act in this country which might affect his own interest, and that of his family in another. This case might very possibly happen. A person, by renouncing nobility here, might he debarred from claiming its privileges in another place, when it would, perhaps, be for his advantage.

Mr. AMES observed, that too much attention had been given to the amendment as an abstract question. Nothing tended more to bewilder and confuse a debate than such a departure from the subject into abstractions and refinements; for, although by this means we found that plain principles were rendered obscure, and reasonable doctrines carried to excess, yet we did not seem to reflect that nothing is more opposite to just principles than the extremes of those principles. For instance, it would not be safe or proper indiscriminately to admit aliens to become citizens, yet a scrutiny into their political orthodoxy might be carried to a very absurd extreme. The merit of the amendment depends on its adaptedness to the end proposed by the bill, and what is that? To make a rule of naturalization for the admission of aliens to become citizens, on such terms as may consist with our tranquillity and safety. Now, said he, do we think of refusing this privilege to all heretics in respect to political doctrines? Even that strictness would not hasten the millennium. For our own citizens freely propagate a great variety of opinions hostile to each other, and therefore, many of them deviate widely from the intended standard of right thinking; good and bad, fools and wise men, the philosopher and the dupes of prejudice, we find could live very peaceably together, because there was a sufficient coincidence of common interest. If we depend on this strong tie, if we oblige foreigners to wait seven years, till they have formed it, till their habits as well as interests become assimilated with our own, we may leave them to cherish or to renounce their imported prejudices and follies as they may choose. The danger of their diffusing them among our own citizens, is to be prevented by public opinion, if we may leave error and prejudice to stand or fall before truth and freedom of inquiry.

Can the advocates of the amendment even affect apprehensions that there is any intention to introduce a foreign nobility as a privileged order? If they can, such diseases of the brain were not bred by reasoning and cannot be cured by it. Still less should we give effect by law to chimerical whimsies. For what is the tendency of this counterfeit alarm? Is it to rouse again the sleeping apparitions which have disturbed the back country? Is it to show that the mock dangers which they have pretended to dread are real? Or, is it to mark a line of separation between those who have the merit of maintaining the extremes of political opinions, and those whom this vote would denounce as stopping at what they deem a wise moderation? If that is the case, it seems that the amendment is intended rather to publish a creed than to settle a rule of naturalization. Yet it should be noticed that those who would go to extremes are less entitled to the praise of Republicanism than those who would not.

Mr. SAMUEL SMITH was sorry for the turn which the debate had taken; though at first it bore a trifling appearance, it had since called up all the warmth of the House. The gentlemen from the Eastern States, who knew the Republican character of their constituents, and how independent every man there was, both in his temper and his circumstances, had slighted the amendment as unnecessary. Gentlemen from the Southern States, on the other hand, say that they have some reason to be apprehensive. Why, said Mr. S., will not the Eastern members indulge us in this trifle? It is owned by the one party, that it can have no bad tendency; and the other imagine that it must have a good one. Then why not, for the sake of conciliation, grant it?

Mr. MURRAY was sorry that the House had begun the new year with such a discussion. He had seen with much pleasure the appearances of conciliation and unanimity at the outset of the session. He should vote for the amendment, and he hoped that those members who were against it would come round and vote for it. They would thus put an end to this motion, so wasteful of time. Of nobility, however, the gentleman had no alarming apprehensions. There had once been in this House a baronet. He was there for two years before it was known, and it was then discovered that a baronet was a thing perfectly harmless. As for titles of nobility, he believed that all the wholesome and sensible part of the community looked upon the whole as stuff. When Mr. M. contemplated this subject, it reminded him of Holbein's Dance of Death.[56] He saw nothing in this country but the ghosts of nobility. In Europe, indeed, it was a matter of importance. It established the etiquette of precedence among the ladies in leading down a country dance. The amendment was not worth much either one way or the other. But he wished it to be granted for the reasons assigned by his colleague from Maryland, who had spoke just before him.

Mr. MADISON. When the amendment was first suggested, he had considered it as highly proper, and naturally connected with the subject. No man can say how far the Republican revolution that is now proceeding in Europe will go. If a revolution was to take place in Britain, which for his part he expected and believed would be the case, the peerage of that country would be thronging to the United States. He should be ready to receive them with all that hospitality, tenderness, and respect to which misfortune is entitled. He should sympathize with them, and be as ready to afford them whatever friendly offices lay in his power as any man. But this was entirely distinct from admitting them as citizens of America before they were constitutionally qualified to become so. In reply to the remark of Mr. BOUDINOT, that a renunciation of their titles might injure their families, Mr. M. observed, that if a British revolution took place, these fugitives would, as aliens, be incapacitated from holding real estates. In discussing this question, we had been reminded of the Marquis de Lafayette. He had the greatest respect for that character; but if he were to come to this country, this very gentleman would be the first to recommend and acquiesce in the amendment on the table. He had urged the necessity of utterly abolishing nobility in France, even at a time when he thought it necessary for the safety of the state that the king should possess a considerable portion of power; and Mr. M. believed, that if he were now at freedom, he was as completely stripped of every thing relative to nobility, as it was possible he could be. It had been said, that it was needless to make emigrants renounce their rank, and that oaths were no security. He was ready to allow, that oaths were, in any case, but a very poor security, but they had been adopted in other parts of the bill, and the same reason which recommended them on former occasions might recommend them now.

Mr. W. SMITH was convinced that the amendment was wholly incompetent to the end which it professed to have in view. You may force a man to renounce his title, but what does that signify, when you cannot hinder his neighbors from calling both him, his wife, and family by the title? He replied to the argument of Mr. S. SMITH, as to the Eastern members giving up the point for the sake of conciliation with the Southern members.

He did not understand that his own constituents had any such panic about them, or that they would thank the Eastern members very ardently for such a concession. They were not afraid of aristocracy. You cannot abolish the practice; and even supposing a nobleman had made his renunciation, perhaps the very person who administered the oath, may, the next moment, say, "My Lord, I wish you a good morning!" and you cannot punish the individual who says so. As to not allowing of titles to wives and daughters, this renunciation will not prevent their being given. But in some parts of the country we have titles already. Mr. S. had often heard an old lady called "the Duchess." He could see no good consequence from the motion. There was indeed one obvious effect. The ignorant part of the American citizens--who, he hoped, were but few--would imagine that those who voted for the amendment were against the introduction of nobility into America, and that those against the amendment were for that introduction. This frivolous kind of legislation had disgraced the proceedings of another nation. They had begun to change the names of their towns and harbors, such as Conde, Dunkirk, Toulon, Havre de Grace, and Lyons. One of these they had named Havre de Marat, and so on. But now they were coming back to their sober judgment, and were repealing these edicts. Lyons was restored to its old name. The pillar erected to announce its rebellion and annihilation had been taken down. The Convention had formerly passed a law for demolishing houses inhabited by aristocrats, but now they began to think it was better to let the houses stand. Would any body say that French liberty was better secured by naming a harbor Havre de Marat? Had this done any good to the cause? But if people who were so much afraid of the introduction of nobility would look around them, they might already find in this country alarming marks of attachment to royalty. When Mr. SMITH was lately at New Haven, in Connecticut, he had observed on the top of the State House the figure of a Crown, which had stood there undisturbed since long before the beginning of the Revolution. He went into the State House, and found the people as good Republicans as could be, notwithstanding this crown. Again, at Middletown, in the same State, he went into a church, and on the top of the organ there was another Crown, which might also be interpreted as a proof of monarchical principles. Reverting to the subject of changing names, Mr. S. said, that the people in the State of New York had for a long time enjoyed as much liberty as the other States. At last, however, it was recollected that one of the streets of the city of New York was called King's street; but this was changed to Liberty street, which was, to be sure, a very momentous alteration. If Congress descend to legislate in such littlenesses, they may forbid the title of Worshipful. They may abolish the order of Freemasons, which he thought that they had just as much right to do as to make the foreign nobility renounce their titles before they should be accepted as American citizens. The Congress may, among other objects of legislation, forbid any member to come into that House with an aristocratical cloak--one with gold lace, for example. He asked more than once this question: What peculiar privileges has a foreign nobleman, coming into this country, which he possessed more than all other citizens? He considered the whole amendment as totally trifling. He was content that the yeas and nays should be taken. His sentiments were known already. His name should stand among the noes.

Mr. GILES said, that there had been an echo from one end to the other of the House that his amendment was trifling. Was it consistent for the gentleman, who had been up for half an hour, to spend so much time upon a question, and then conclude by telling the House that it was nothing; that he had been talking for so long a time upon a subject that did not merit their attention? What kind of reasoning was this, or how did the gentleman propose to reconcile it? Was it consistent with the warmth which had been discovered, to say that all this discussion, all this length of time, had been consumed upon nothing? But this kind of language had something more serious in it, for this prohibition of nobility formed one of the pillars of the constitution; so that to call a principle recognized and affirmed by the constitution a trifle, or nothing, and so on, was a very unguarded proceeding. Another notable argument against agreeing to his amendment had been, that the people already detested nobility so thoroughly that it was not worth while to pass this amendment, as their hatred of it would put an end to it without a law. It was enough that the two principal reasons against his amendment, were, first, that it was authorized by the constitution, and secondly, that it would be agreeable to the people. It is strange, that the will of the people, who send us here, is to have no influence in this House, but is to be turned into an argument against passing a law! Mr. G. would adhere to his amendment, because, as the law now stands, there is nothing to hinder a foreigner with a title to become an American citizen, and obtain a seat in this House, and hold both his office and his title. Mr. G. next answered a part of the argument of Mr. W. SMITH, that making people renounce their titles would only rivet their attachment to them, and make them, perhaps, think of these things, when otherwise they would have been forgotten. Mr. G. said, it was quite a new kind of argument, that to renounce a thing, was the way to give it existence. If this rule were to hold, he believed that some members of the House would renounce things which they very much wanted. For example, he himself should possibly renounce a hundred thousand dollars. As to the call for yeas and nays, he had some time ago informed the House that he gave up this point. The thing could not affect him, either one way or another, because his sentiments were already known.

Mr. TRACY regretted that so much time should be lost on trifling subjects. We had seen the National Convention of France diminish their dignity, by spending three or four days on the business of giving a name to the late Duke of Orleans, and hardly had they finished, by giving him the name of Egalité, before in substance he became so bad that they cut his head off. What good did his renunciation of title do, excepting that it afforded him a short opportunity of deceiving his fellow-citizens? Mr. T. said he was fully convinced, and had been so from the beginning of the debate on the Naturalization bill, that a length of time was the only valuable probation of an alien, and the only successful mode of discerning his principles, and the justice and propriety of his claim to be naturalized. He thought the sentiments of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Giles) were highly commendable, when he said we ought to avoid extremes in politics, and adopt a sober medium of political reasoning, suited to the steady and rational temper of Americans, equally removed, on the one hand, from tyranny, and on the other from anarchy. And he would ask, whether a solemn abjuration of all foreign allegiance, with proofs of a good moral character, and attachment to the principles of our Government, would not secure us, as to the principles of the heart, as thoroughly, without the farce of renouncing his title, as with it? He considered titles, in this country, as very empty, unmeaning things; and they would go into disuse of themselves, having no solid support, either in the habits or constitution of this country. But, by the Constitution of the United States, any citizen might receive and enjoy a title from a foreign prince or sovereignty, and Congress could not prevent it. The words of the constitution are:

"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States; and no person holding any office of profit or trust, under them, shall, without the consent of Congress, accept any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."

Mr. T. supposed it was clear that Congress had no power respecting this matter, but what was expressly delegated by the constitution, and that had given them a check only on officers of their own appointment, leaving every other citizen, not an officer of Government, at liberty to retain a foreign title if he pleased. And an alien might, even if this amendment should pass, renounce his title, become naturalized, and in an hour accept of the same title, or another, from any foreign Prince, and Congress can make no laws to prevent it. If it be a fault that our citizens can receive and enjoy titles, it is a constitutional one; Congress are not blamable for it, but they would be blamable were they to arrogate powers not given them, upon this or any other subject. Mr. T. repeated, that there could be no danger in this country from titles; they were universally considered as trifles, and it would be dignifying them too much to legislate about them. He asked the gentleman who brought forward this motion, whether it was not, in a measure, a departure from his former declaration, of sober, rational temper, in politics, to insist so much upon its importance as he did? He was sorry the yeas and nays were insisted upon with so much spirit; it looked like party, in a very unimportant matter: he did not mean to accuse any man, or men, and mentioned it with diffidence, but it really struck his mind in this way. Much had been said about adhering to the constitution strictly, on former occasions; but, from many things said now, it seemed as though there was no safety for the people, unless the House of Representatives absorbed the whole governmental power. Mr. T. said, if that House should become political cannibals, and attempt to devour both the other branches of the Legislature, he would oppose it, whether it was popular or not, for he considered the constitutional checks of the branches of this Government, upon one another, as containing the most complete security for liberty that any people could enjoy. If his construction was a just one, Mr. T. thought the amendment could do no good; it formed a test which might make hypocrites, but not proselytes: it stripped an alien for a moment of a trifle, which in the next he might resume and wear for ever.

Mr. SEDGWICK.--Has it not been said that there was a party in the United States, not only for aristocracy, but even for monarchy? Is not the present a most favorable opportunity for holding up these people to popular resentment? He was convinced that the gentleman who moved this amendment had no design of doing any such thing, but that did not lessen the reality. He said that Mr. GILES had brought gentlemen into a dilemma, which he did not, or would not see. They had at first opposed the motion, as trifling, and this they had a right to do. The member (Mr. GILES) then moved his call for the yeas and nays; and if gentlemen who had already spoken against the amendment, were now to draw back, and vote for it, they would betray a disgraceful poverty of spirit. Their constituents would say that their votes had been given in terrorem of the yeas and nays. The motives for pushing this call could be nothing else but to stigmatize members of that House, as wanting to introduce a nobility, whereas they opposed the amendment on no such account, but merely because it was not worth their taking up. As to himself, he did not care. He could not wish to stand better with his constituents than he actually did. He was well known to them. But, in other quarters of the continent, it might be said that the Eastern States were represented by aristocrats. If this be a desirable object, said Mr. S., in God's name, let gentlemen persist in calling for the yeas and nays. It will be said, "There go the Eastern aristocrats! They want to import nobility here, when it can no longer exist in Europe!" Mr. S. said, that, at first, he gave but little opposition to the amendment, thinking it frivolous. He repeatedly declared, upon his honor, that he firmly believed it to be so, and that he had no other reason for opposing it. If he had been, upon this occasion, warmer than usual, he was sorry for it; but the mischievous and unconciliating consequences of this call for the yeas and nays, had hurt him exceedingly.

Mr. MADISON denied the assertion of Mr. SEDGWICK, that the amendment was trifling; and the member himself seemed to betray, by his behavior, a consciousness that he had not promoted conciliation. An abolition of titles was essential to a Republican revolution, and therefore such an abolition had been highly proper in France. The sons of the Cincinnati could not have inherited their honors, and yet the minds of the Americans were universally disgusted with the institution, and in particular, in South Carolina; yet a member from that State (Mr. W. SMITH) has told the House that his constituents were under no fears of aristocracy, and that they could hear titles without emotion. Even the Chief Magistrate of South Carolina had told the Cincinnati that these distinctions ought to be laid aside.

Mr. HILLHOUSE thought it quite frivolous to spend time upon the motion. That was all his objection. It had been said that, allowing the amendment to be trifling, yet it was no harm to make an idle law, and that therefore it should be agreed to for the sake of conciliation. Supposing a man to make a will, bequeathing a hundred thousand guineas, when he was not worth a shilling, there would be one serious effect at least, for it would make the testator ridiculous. To legislate for the sake of expressing a sentiment, was very silly, and what he never should agree to. If Mr. GILES would make an amendment incapacitating all foreigners whatever from holding, upon any account, a civil office in America, Mr. H. would agree with him, because he did not want to see any of them in such offices, and conceived that Americans could legislate for themselves much better without any such assistance.

Mr. LYMAN said, that whenever a member of that House called for the yeas and nays, it was a rule with him to rise and second the motion, because the people had, upon all occasions, a right to know their votes; and even if only one member desires the yeas and nays to be taken, Mr. L. conceived that it ought to be done, as the thing was in itself so highly proper. Since he had the honor of a seat in that House, therefore, he had always seconded every call for yeas and nays, that the public might understand, as fully as possible, what they were about, and how their votes went. He said that it was extremely improper to ascribe wrong motives, when gentlemen supported a call for yeas and nays. It was sacrificing the dignity of the House to cast out such insinuations. When the call had once been made and agreed to, it would be very mean to retract it, to gratify any member. The public had always, and without any exception, a right to know what their Representatives were doing, and how they were voting, and he, for one, should adhere to the call.

Mr. W. SMITH said, that he had already put a question which nobody had answered, and on that account he should now rise and put it again. What are the emigrant nobility to renounce? When they come into this country, they possess not one privilege which is not possessed by every body else. He had expected that the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. GILES,) when last up, would have explained this matter, but he had not done it. The great bugbear was, lest a ci-devant Lord may get a seat here, and that somebody may call him My Lord. But, even after you have got his renunciation of nobility, if other people choose to give him his titles, you can neither hinder nor punish them; so that the amendment is, to all practical intents and purposes, absolutely useless and nugatory. Some members of this House belong to the order of Cincinnati. If they come here with badges at their button-holes, can you forbid them? He wished that gentlemen would show what was to be renounced. There was nothing at all to renounce. The whole amendment is totally futile.

Mr. DEXTER then rose, but the House had become so impatient for the question, that he was heard with difficulty. He only wanted to ask whether the call for yeas and nays was withdrawn or not?

Mr. MCDOWELL said that he had already informed the House that he should insist on the call.

Mr. AMES then asked, whether it was not competent to put the previous question, viz: Shall this call be now taken?

The SPEAKER, in reply, said, that according to his judgment, the previous question could have been regularly taken upon any topic whatever, which produced a debate; but the House, by a recent decision, had determined that the previous question could not be regularly taken upon an amendment.

He was then asked, whether the call of yesterday was valid to-day, or if it was necessary for the members to rise over again? Mr. SEDGWICK was clearly of this opinion; in which the SPEAKER, after some consideration, concurred, as some gentlemen had deserted the call, and he, in reality, did not know whether a fifth part of the members would support a call or not.

It was then suggested, that there could not be a second call, if the first was disappointed; and some gentleman said, that he hoped no member would insist on a thing so extremely distressing to the feelings of many members. Several gentlemen had now attempted to speak at the same time, and the mischievous and unconciliating effects of the call were enumerated with much emphasis.

Mr. NEW at last came forward, and declared that he moved for a call. Mr. MCDOWELL said the same.

Mr. SEDGWICK then rose again. He appealed to the House, that, since he had a seat in Congress, he had never troubled them with a call more than a very few times; and he affirmed, upon his honor, that he never had moved for the yeas and nays at all, unless he was uncertain how the votes of the House would go. But the gentlemen who now moved for the call had not this excuse. They knew very well that they would carry their point, and that by a large majority; so that the insisting for the yeas and nays could arise only from a design that gentlemen who voted against the amendment should be held out to the public as wanting to introduce a nobility. He owed little to Mr. GILES for having withdrawn his motion, when others were so ready to renew it.

Mr. NEW, on hearing these remarks, declared that he should withdraw his motion, since so much had been said about it.

Mr. BLOUNT then rose, and said that it was needless to waste time, for the yeas and nays must and should be taken.

Twenty-three members seconded his motion, and the SPEAKER declared that the point was now determined.

Mr. DEXTER next rose, and observed that he had withdrawn his amendment, under a hope of conciliation, and that the yeas and nays would not be taken. But since this request had been refused, he should move it again, and have the yeas and nays upon that likewise, and before the other. He went over the beaten ground of the bad consequences of holding members up to popular resentment.

Mr. VENABLE said, that if the gentleman were so disposed, he should willingly try the question at once on this motion, without farther investigation about it.

On calling over the names, there were, on the amendment of Mr. DEXTER--yeas 28, nays 63.

The amendment of Mr. GILES was then taken up, and determined in the affirmative--yeas 59, nays 32.

Ordered, That the said bill, with the amendments agreed to, be recommitted to Mr. MADISON, Mr. DEXTER, and Mr. CARNES.

MONDAY, January 5,

THOMAS SPRIGG, from Maryland, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

MONDAY, January 12.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill from the Senate, entitled "An act to authorize the settlement of the claim of Samuel Prioleau;" and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose and reported progress.

Defence of the Frontiers.

A Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, laying before Congress, for their consideration, the copy of a letter from the Secretary of War,[57] accompanied by an extract from a memorandum of James Seagrove, Agent of Indian Affairs. The Message and papers were read:

Mr. MURRAY then moved that the Message should be referred to the same Committee of the whole House, to which had been referred the memorial from the inhabitants of the South-western Territory.

Mr. NICHOLAS objected strongly to this motion, as showing too much deference to the Heads of the Departments. The paper in question ought not to have been sent to the House at all.

Mr. MURRAY defended his motion. He inquired how the gentleman proposed to get information? Was he to manufacture it himself, or in what way could he better obtain it than from the Heads of the Departments? He had not, for his own part, that species of jealousy of them which the gentleman last up had.

Mr. NICHOLAS repeated his arguments with some warmth. He said that the letter from the late Secretary at War was not official, but officious. It had a particular aspect which should forbid its getting any such mark of attention. It was neither more nor less than a commentary on some of the proceedings of the last session of Congress. If this was received, we might expect the table to be heaped with such things.

Mr. SEDGWICK could really see no reason to reject the motion. The PRESIDENT had undoubtedly a right to send the communication. The subject was confessedly of the utmost importance. The member asked, if the House were to close their understandings, and refuse all information from that quarter? He repeated that he could see no ground of any sort for refusing consent to the motion.

Mr. GILES was equally dissatisfied with the matter of this letter, and with the manner in which it had been introduced into the House. They were both equally exceptionable. The letter had come without any call. It was an Executive comment on a Legislative proceeding. It was a defence of a measure adopted by the Senate, and it condemned by implication another of that House. To Mr. G. it was a very extraordinary paper. The PRESIDENT was not to be supposed, however, answerable for the propriety of its contents. He should be very unwilling to take any notice of this paper at all. It had been justly remarked that it was a comment on transactions of the last session. A section of a bill passed in the Senate last session, and rejected by the House of Representatives, was inserted in it, and recommended. This paper might operate very materially on the deliberations of the House. This was a very bad precedent. The Executive had nothing to do with any question depending before the Legislature, and consequently had no occasion to send such a thing.

Mr. HOLTEN imagined that the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. MURRAY) had extended his motion too far. It ought to have comprehended only the taking into consideration the Message of the PRESIDENT.

Mr. MURRAY complained of the asperity of expression employed by a gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. NICHOLAS.) Not official but officious, and the intelligence artificial, were phrases to which he objected. The gentleman might have higher sources of information than he had. Mr. M. was willing to take up with information wherever he could get it, and he could have it nowhere with more propriety than from the national servants. It was no good reason to reject information merely because we had not asked for it. Mr. GILES had given a piece of intelligence which Mr. M. said was to him entirely new, viz.: that when the House wanted information, it was one of their rules not to refer for it to the Heads of Departments. The topic was great and important, and the House, before they rise, must examine in general into the situation of the South-western frontier, and our terms with the Indians. Mr. M. said, that the delegate from the South-western territory (Mr. WHITE) would certainly be glad to obtain the information conveyed in this paper. If any gentleman would point out any other way by which the House could, without absurdity, get from the PRESIDENT the information contained in this letter, Mr. M. should be willing to adopt it.

Mr. BOUDINOT was entirely satisfied both as to the propriety of the matter contained in the letter of the Secretary, and as to the manner in which it had been introduced into that House. That the PRESIDENT had a right to consult the Heads of Departments, there could be no kind of doubt. Mr. BOUDINOT then read the following passage from the constitution: "The PRESIDENT shall be Commander-in-chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States. He may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the Executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices." Mr. B. defended the Message in all its circumstances, and in the most pointed terms. It was perfectly proper, and peculiarly so at this time. By the constitution, and by the rules and practice of the House, the PRESIDENT had a right to offer his advice regarding Legislative acts.

Mr. W. SMITH had seen much needless jealousy in the House towards Heads of Departments; and the present he thought a refinement on that side. There had been two objections to the communication from the Secretary of War, the one as to the matter, and the other as to the manner in which it was introduced to the House; as to the latter, it was said to have been obtruded unasked. In this last objection Mr. S. saw nothing. He read a precedent from the Journals, which he insisted to be exactly similar, and where Mr. NICHOLAS himself had been one of a committee appointed to examine and report. As to the matter, we might as reasonably object to the Speeches of the PRESIDENT, reminding the House of business which had been before them, or recommending subjects to their notice. He considered the objections of both sorts as entirely unfounded.

Mr. MADISON recommended the alteration suggested by Mr. HOLTEN, for restricting the motion of commitment to the Message of the PRESIDENT, and not to take any notice of the letter from the Secretary, which he considered as, in itself, extremely improper. It could not be meant as information, and the House had no occasion to take advice from the Secretary. The letter itself looked more like a forced thing, than any which he recollected to have seen since the establishment of the constitution. The subject, however, was delicate. The PRESIDENT had an undoubted right to give advice or information in any way which he thought best. It was totally ill-judged in the Secretary to have conveyed his opinion in the very words of a clause in a bill that had passed through the Senate last session, and been rejected in that House. The communication translated into plain language amounted to this: "The Senate last session had more wisdom than this House, and it is proper for this House to reconsider its proceedings, and improve by the superior wisdom of the Senate." Due respect should, however, be paid to the Message of the PRESIDENT. It ought to be taken into consideration, and Mr. M. was not willing to cast obstructions in its way, or to make needless objections.

Mr. DAYTON said, that he was for referring the Report of the Secretary at War, with the PRESIDENT's Message, to the Committee of the Whole, and that consequently he was against striking out the words which expressed that intention. If, by omitting to take any notice of the Report of the Secretary, it was meant to reject the information on account of the source from which it came, it argued such a degree of jealousy and distrust as appeared both unreasonable and unconstitutional. If, on the contrary, the object was not so much to reject it, as, by the manner of referring the Message, to convey any reproof or disrespect towards the late Secretary of War, Mr. D. should be still more decidedly averse to the modification proposed. He lamented it as an unhappy circumstance for this country, that the gentleman who was lately the Head of the War Department had thought proper to resign. That gentleman had executed the complicated and important duties of his office with zeal, fidelity, and ability, and ought to be protected from any proposition or remark which glanced unfavorably at him, or might wound his feelings at the moment of his leaving us. Mr. D. then adduced the Report of the Secretary of War in 1790, to the PRESIDENT, on the subject of the militia system, as a striking precedent. The Secretary there informed the PRESIDENT, that he had submitted to him a plan for the arrangement of the militia. The PRESIDENT sent a Message with the plan to the House of Representatives. What were the steps then taken in that parallel case? Was the Message then alone referred as it is now proposed by some gentlemen? The journals, on the contrary, prove, that the Message and plan were referred to the Committee of the Whole. It was possible, Mr. D. added, that the present Congress might deem themselves wiser than their predecessors. It was possible that many might think it safest to shut their ears against all kinds of information from the Heads of Departments, or even from the PRESIDENT himself. There might be some who would be willing to free the House of Representatives from certain obligations, or shackles under which the constitution placed them, by tearing out a leaf from that instrument, but he ventured to say that it was too soon yet to attempt it.

Mr. SMILIE complained of the style of the memorial from the Secretary of War, and, as a specimen, he read the following passage:

"It is a melancholy reflection that our modes of population have been more destructive to the Indian natives than the conduct of the conquerors of Mexico and Peru. The evidence of this is the utter extirpation of nearly all the Indians in the most populous parts of the Union. A future historian may mark the causes of this destruction of the human race in sable colors. Although the present Government of the United States cannot with propriety be involved in the opprobrium, yet it seems necessary however, in order to render their attention upon this subject strongly characteristic of their justice, that some powerful attempts should be made to tranquillize the frontiers, particularly those south of the Ohio."

In reading the above extract, Mr. M. went no farther than to the words sable colors. Mr. S. SMITH desired that he should read on, that the House might hear that no insinuation was intended, as if the present Government of the United States had countenanced such ravages. Mr. SMILIE said, that he knew what came after, but who would compare the first settlers of North America to the Spaniards, who destroyed in their mines thousands and millions of the Indians, and whose memory had been consigned to the execration of centuries?

Mr. AMES rose. Just when he had begun speaking, there came in a message from the PRESIDENT by his Secretary. On this, Mr. A. observed, that, perhaps, while gentlemen were now speaking there might have arisen a new subject of dispute. Perhaps by the new doctrine, we should reject all communications from that quarter. The message having been delivered, Mr. A. went on to remark, that turning loose the American militia to guard the South-western frontier, was a system of slaughter, of desolation. It was to make a Potter's field a hundred thousand miles in extent! It was a system to waste the blood of the white man, and to extirpate the Indians. The militia were not the people to prevent those kind of injuries against the Indians which were the cause of hostilities. But gentlemen who were now so delicate as to the style of memorials, would do well, if they extended that delicacy to other memorials which had been presented to that House, and referred by the consent of those very members to select committees. Papers had been offered to that House, wherein its conduct had been criminated and reprobated in the most unqualified language of detestation. Yet gentlemen, on some of these occasions, showed no resentment. Mr. A. ridiculed the idea of the present motion as introducing a new and dangerous precedent. The opposition to it came exactly under that description, for it was a direct attack upon the principles of the constitution.

Mr. FITZSIMONS approved of the motion. It had been asked if the PRESIDENT was responsible for the contents of this Report from the Secretary of War? Mr. F. did not think so; but if he had not communicated it, the member would have thought him responsible for the omission. The PRESIDENT had a right to ask advice from the Heads of the Departments. Mr. F. never knew a message from the PRESIDENT which required a reference, that had been refused it. As a matter of course, as a matter of right, it ought to be referred.

Mr. MURRAY rose and read that passage in the Report of the Secretary, which Mr. S. Smith had desired Mr. SMILIE to read, and which he had not read. [They are inserted both together at full length as above.]

Mr. NICHOLAS moved an amendment, and which was seconded, for striking out the latter part of the resolution proposed by Mr. MURRAY. This made it merely a reference of the Message from the PRESIDENT to the Committee of the Whole, and omitted all notice whatever of the Report from the Secretary of War.

Mr. SEDGWICK really thought this a squeamishness for which he saw no manner of foundation.

Mr. GILES arose. He said that a gentleman from Massachusetts had asserted that some members considered the whole constitution as entirely in this House. This imputation was a thing of so serious a nature, that Mr. G. wished the gentleman to point out the person to whom he alluded. If it respected Mr. G. himself, the assertion was unfounded. It was not true. He had the highest respect for every branch of the constitution. This was a charge frequently made by one side of the House. Gentlemen had called the contents of this paper information. He saw in it nothing but what the House knew without the assistance of the Secretary. He considered the report as an effort upon the opinion of this House, as an attack upon its independence, and that in a very indelicate way. He thought the report in all respects unworthy of the notice of the House. He hoped that this paper would not be committed, but that the Message of the PRESIDENT would be so.

[The passage in the report repeatedly referred to as having been borrowed from a bill passed in the Senate, last session, is in these words:

"That all persons who shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory south of the Ohio, for the purpose of warring against the Indians, or committing depredations upon any Indian town, or persons, or property, shall thereby become liable and subject to the rules and articles of war, which are or shall be established for the government of the troops of the United States."

This was a section of a bill which the Senate passed the last session, entitled "An act for the more effectual protection of the South-western frontiers," but it was disagreed to by the House.]

Mr. KITTERA considered this as entirely a dispute about words, or plainly about nothing at all. Gentlemen from Virginia were more jealous of the Executive than even the constitution itself. Mr. K. was satisfied that the PRESIDENT had a right to interfere in the Legislative proceedings with his opinion and advice. There was neither principle nor precedent for the amendment of Mr. NICHOLAS. The dispute was merely about words, because if the Message of the PRESIDENT was referred to a Committee of the Whole, the report in question would, in any case, be referred along with it.

Mr. AMES rose again to make some remarks on the danger of extending too far the privileges of the House of Representatives over the other House. The moment that this House is turned into a Convention, there is an end of liberty. As to impropriety and indelicacy of style, he could wish that the cognizance of members might extend to memorials addressed to the House, that we may not have addresses disrespectful to it. He entirely vindicated the conduct of the PRESIDENT as to this matter, and saw a peculiar propriety in his having made the communication at present on the table.

The question was loudly called for; but Mr. NICHOLAS rose in reply to Mr. AMES. Would any man call this a communication from the Executive? Mr. AMES spoke a few words in a low tone of voice. Mr. N. proceeded, "The gentleman prevaricates." "I prevaricate, sir!" rejoined Mr. A. Mr. N said, that at best he went off from the point. As to the precedent produced by Mr. W. SMITH, it was quite inapplicable. It bore no resemblance or connection to the one before the House. The other adduced by Mr. DAYTON was, he admitted, in point. But that gentleman would admit that it occurred in the infancy of the constitution, which was an excuse for it. He hoped that the amendment would go through.

Mr. TRACY quoted something which Mr. NICHOLAS had said. That gentleman immediately answered, that he had been misquoted. I know, said Mr. TRACY, as well as that gentleman, what he said. Mr. NICHOLAS got up a second time, and repeated what he affirmed were the words which he had really spoken. He did not say so before, said Mr. TRACY, but I am content that he should say so now. I only beg that he may not interrupt me. As to the motion for striking out one-half of the resolution, Mr. TRACY looked upon it as out of all propriety. The PRESIDENT had sent a letter of two lines, enclosing a report from the Secretary of War. To refer the former without the latter, would be like referring to any person the superscription of a letter, but adding, at the same time, you must not look at the inside of it. Mr. T. did not care from whom the report came. If it contained useful information, that was all he wanted to know. And, supposing it had been sent from a Democratic society, that of itself would with Mr. T. be no reason to refuse it a reference. He then observed how much more deference had been paid by that House to Democratic societies than was now paid by some gentlemen to the PRESIDENT. Much care had been taken that a vote of censure should not be passed on them. It looked as if gentlemen wanted to grasp all power within this body. The amendment was wrong in point both of principle and practice. To refer a mere superscription, (for the letter of the PRESIDENT was nothing more,) would look strange enough. The resolution, as amended, was in a state of hostility with common sense.

Mr. LYMAN was in favor of the amendment for striking out the words in the latter part of the motion. He thought it improper to refer to a Committee of the whole House the report of the late Secretary of War, because it was of an amphibious nature. It was not a mere official statement of supposed facts, but the reasoning on these facts. He was sensible that precedents could be found on the journals, which sanctioned a commitment of similar reports; but, for his part, he had ever thought the practice improper, and he must meet the question as it appeared to him. He said, that the constitution authorized the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, nay, it made it a duty incumbent on him, to give information, from time to time, of the state of the Union. He was also equally required to suggest, for the consideration of the House, whatever he thought expedient; but there was a most material difference between communicating information, and argument or inferences deduced from it. The official information would always, without doubt, be reports from the different departments, and, therefore, would have the credit and weight which was due to it; but whenever plans or arguments were communicated, they should have the responsibility attached to the signature of the PRESIDENT. What was the case in the present instance? Had the Executive avowed the plan of the Secretary of War, or his reasoning? He was persuaded, from the communication itself, that the PRESIDENT did not at all espouse the report as his own wishes or opinion; for there was nothing in the Message implying that the report had been officially required, or that any one sentiment was from the high authority of the Executive. As to the Secretary of War, Mr. L. had a respect for him, and believed that he had discharged the duties of his office with ability and fidelity, but it implied no censure to decline hearing his arguments. All that the House wanted was facts and information. They were fully competent to the suitable deductions. As to the observation of his colleague, that the House were abridging the powers of the Executive, it was so far from being the case, they were only reclaiming what had been remitted and disused; and he had no fears that they would abuse it.

Mr. HILLHOUSE thought that gentlemen were spending time in a very trifling way. It is the duty of the House to hear information from every quarter. He was against the amendment.

Mr. J. WADSWORTH said, that some gentlemen had been offended at the comparison in the report between the North American settlers and the Spaniards. Mr. W. remarked, that if gentlemen would look into two historians, the one of Virginia and the other of New England, they would see bad enough work. If the Spaniards, or any other nation in history, had acted worse, he was much at a loss to comprehend what their proceedings could have been. As to Pennsylvania, much had been said of the purchases from the Indians of their lands; but where was the difference between shooting an Indian and catching him in a trap? And, as to the conduct of the Pennsylvanians, when they drove the Indians back to Pittsburg, that was sufficiently cruel. We have murdered them from the beginning, said Mr. W. As to the question on the amendment, he knew perfectly well that the PRESIDENT had acted exactly conformable both to the constitution and the practice of the House. To refuse committing the report of the Secretary along with the Message, would be an affront, not to the Secretary, but to the PRESIDENT.

Mr. MADISON looked upon the expression, as to the Spaniards, as being extremely exceptionable. It had escaped, perhaps, inadvertently. The Secretary would not have used it in a report to the House, nor would the PRESIDENT have employed it, as from himself, in any Message to the House. Mr. M. was for the amendment. It was natural enough that the Secretary, when communicating his sentiments in a private manner, should make use of illustrations for enforcing his opinion that he would not have adopted in an official paper.

Mr. PAGE was persuaded that the Report from the Secretary of War contained nothing new, or, if new, nothing which may not as well be used when in the hands of members, as when in those of a Committee of the Whole. If the amendment had been to throw the Message under the table, more warmth could not have been shown, in charging the opposers of the motion for reference to a Committee of the Whole with indecency to the PRESIDENT, and with a design at usurpation of his power, &c. It is said, that a jealousy has been betrayed by some members of an encroachment on the privileges of this House. Surely, a most unnecessary and unreasonable suspicion has also been betrayed by others, of a design in the gentlemen who supported the motion of Mr. NICHOLAS, to encroach on the powers of the Executive. Expressions have been used not consistent with decency and order. Gentlemen have been charged with a factious spirit, favoring indecent remonstrances, and with slighting and treating contemptuously the Message from the PRESIDENT. Some members have, at another time, been charged with speaking, not to the House, but to their constituents, in order to gain their votes at an approaching election. Mr. P. said, that his respect for the Government, and for the PRESIDENT, was equal to that of any man in the House. He was far from wishing to reflect on the late Secretary of War. Mr. P. had never, by any vote, censured his conduct, and he entertained no wish for his resignation. But he was at liberty to think the report given to the PRESIDENT wrong, the communication of it to the House as unnecessary, and even if necessary, as sufficiently acted upon when printed and put into the hands of the members. He might have no doubt respecting the constitutionality of the Message from the PRESIDENT, or of the report of the Secretary to him. He might require no precedents from the Journals to prove that the motion for referring that Message was perfectly in order. But he might doubt whether the substance of the report was of such a nature as to require the consideration of the Committee of the Whole. He might also doubt whether the report was of sufficient importance to require the most mature consideration. There might be circumstances attending the manner of its introduction, as some members allege that there were, which render the report improper to be referred to a Committee of the Whole. It would be a precedent for referring every Message, and that would be attended with unnecessary delay. It will be paying a superfluous compliment. If the information came from the poorest citizen, and was sufficiently important, he would refer it, but though it came from the PRESIDENT or Senate, and contained nothing which, in his opinion, required a commitment, he should vote against it. Mr. P. was for the amendment of Mr. NICHOLAS.

Mr. S. SMITH remarked, that the principal objection made by the gentleman who spoke last, (Mr. PAGE,) to the commitment of the report was, that it contains nothing new. The observation will apply with equal justness to a great part of what has been said on the subject before the House. He wished, therefore, that the question might be immediately taken.

The amendment was negatived without a division, but by a very great majority. The motion, as it originally stood, was then put and carried.

TUESDAY, January 27.

Reduction of Salaries.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the motion of the twenty-third instant, "that a committee be appointed to bring in a bill or bills to amend the act entitled 'An act for establishing the salaries of the Executive Officers of Government, with their assistants and clerks;' and an act 'for allowing compensation to the members of the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States, and to the officers of both Houses;' and to reduce all such salaries as, in the opinion of the said committee, after having made due inquiry, ought to be reduced."

Mr. CLAIBORNE said: A worthy gentleman from Maryland, the other day, suggested an amendment to the proposition now before you, which I understood to contemplate the increase of some salaries; and, if that gentleman can reconcile it to himself and his constituents, let him move and carry it, if he can. For my part, I am pleased with the proposition as it is, and yet it may have great imperfections. It is very common for fond parents to be blind to the imperfections of their own offspring; and, as this is a production of my own, it is probable that I may be under the same delusive prejudices, but I hope that cheerful acquiescence which I have always shown to the majority, has sufficiently evinced that I am no bigot to my own opinions. I said, the other day, that I was determined, if the proposition must die, it should be by assassination; but as, in this, a degree of guilt is implied, and might be attended with serious consequences to those concerned in it, I should be satisfied to give it a fair trial, and, if it must die, that it may be by legal and fair adjudication, or, in other words, after full and fair discussion of its merits.

We now have fairly before us a proposition that contemplates a redress of these grievances, which, since the adoption of the present form of Government, have been a subject of grievous complaint and heartburning amongst citizens of the United States. Many of them, and, I believe, a very great majority, conceive that the exorbitant salaries established to the Legislative, Executive, Judiciary, and their assistants, are not consistent with, or can possibly contribute to the existence or well-being of a Republican Government, which, in its nature, holds out the idea of equality and justice, but which, in the present mode of administration, cannot fail to have a direct opposite tendency, inasmuch as the very profuse salaries that all who have the good fortune to get places under the pay and influence of the present Administration, if they make a prudent use of them, must ultimately enrich and place them in a situation so far above the vast bulk of the citizens, whose industrious fingers are not permitted a single dip into those very coffers which have been swelled by filching a little from that hard-gotten pittance already far inadequate to the necessary but very ordinary subsistence of their families, as at last to endanger the very existence or shadow of this glorious and dear-bought Government, that has already raised the drooping and once-dejected heads of the poor American citizens, who now glory more in having thrown off that subordination that was assumed and exercised over them under the late detestable Monarchical Government, by their rulers, or public officers, than even in their lives and fortunes. Men begin to know the inherent rights of human nature. They have dipped into and tasted a little of the sweets of political regeneration, and, amongst all classes of your citizens, you may discover a zeal that amounts to enthusiasm, that lives and burns and grows almost to a prodigy. Instances are not wanting, sir, to evince that thousands of those who were not fond of this Government at its adoption, are now, on all occasions, ready to step forth in its support, and the laws that are passed consistent therewith. But this does, by no means, argue that they will submit for ever to repeated abuses of the Government, which may ultimately tend to its overthrow; and exorbitant salaries, with other profuse appropriations of the public money, at a time when the nation is groaning under an immense weight of foreign and domestic debt, which (calculating upon the blessings of peace, and of course, a very increasing revenue, not reasonably to be calculated on so long a time,) it is agreed on all hands will take a term not less than thirty-two years to extinguish. Here I shall again be told, that the price of house-rent, and every other necessary of life, has increased, and may continue to increase, so as to drive all your officers out of your service. To this I beg leave to answer, that, if you continue such high salaries, or increase them, as in some instances it is asked, and because of the present enhanced price of the necessaries of life, I think the evil will increase in proportion to the immense sum of money that you throw into circulation, for a redundancy of that, or any thing else, will always diminish the value; and, if the present custom of disbursing the public money is persisted in, the whole wealth of the United States must shortly centre in and about Philadelphia! But, sir, by the adoption of public economy, we may shortly become able to obviate this great evil, and make our disbursements more diffusive, by paying out money to those who have demands upon your justice, distributed over the United States, if any but those who reside around the seat of Government have any demand upon your justice or goodness. I am apprised that the proposition is a very unpopular one here, and that many will perhaps knit their brows at me; but, sir, when I entered into public life, it was without any cringing views. I meant not to court smiles, or fear frowns, and I had no doubt but I should meet my share of both. When I gain the former by proper conduct, I have pleasure in it; when the latter by improper conduct, I am sorry for it. But it will be much to be lamented if ever we see the day when the people shall be suffered to complain from year to year of any grievance, and their Representatives shall be ashamed, or afraid, to make those grievances known, or ask redress, lest they be laughed out of countenance, or lose favor at Court. But so hardy am I, if you prefer that expression, that, while I have the honor of a seat in this House, none of those considerations shall ever deter me from stepping forth in their behalf; but, be the result of this proposition what it may, I now warn you against evils that may come, as you have been heretofore warned of evils that have come, for the obligations of power and submission are reciprocal. It is as much your duty to pass wholesome laws, as it is the duty of the people to obey them. And now, having done my duty, I shall take my seat, content to abide the result, but hope a committee will be appointed.

Mr. NICHOLAS declared that he would be very willing to vote for the appointment of such a committee, if he could see any good purpose to be derived from it, or if the gentleman who laid the resolution on the table could give him any information that tended to prove its expediency. For his own part he had but a small family, and of that he had left one-half behind him in Virginia, yet he found that his allowance as a member of the Legislature was barely sufficient for supporting this half of his family, though he lived with as much economy as he ever had done in his life. He was certain that he should not take one shilling of public money home with him to Virginia. He requested gentlemen to remember that it was not the present Congress who had given six dollars per day to themselves, but that it had been fixed by their predecessors, and fixed at a time when living was fifty per cent. cheaper than it is now.

Mr. BOUDINOT observed, that he should not have troubled the committee on this question, had it not been for several considerations particularly applicable to himself. He was as impartial on the present debate as any member on the floor. After the close of this session of Congress, he never expected to receive a farthing of public money again, and therefore no interest of his own could sway his judgment improperly to object against the resolution on the table. He had been among the number of those members who originally were for fixing the compensation of members of Congress at a less sum than six dollars; not because he thought it beyond the amount of their expenses, but, from an idea of the then deranged state of the finances, and that, if sacrifices were to be made, they should begin with this House. He appealed to his uniform conduct for six years past, to prove that he had always opposed an increase of salaries or other public expenses, when the interest of the Union did not require it. He did not doubt that the gentleman who brought forward this resolution thought he was doing his duty in advocating it; and Mr. B. thought it was equally the duty of the committee to be convinced that they were not wasting their time in unnecessarily proceeding in business, without having some foundation for rational inquiry.

Mr. B. did not doubt but there were uninformed individuals, who might object to six dollars per day; but he was confident that the well-informed among the citizens of the United States, and those who reflected on the subject, would think (at the present day at least) it was not more than would barely pay the reasonable expenses of gentlemen who attended to their duty here in a proper manner. Almost every article of consumption was from twenty to thirty per cent. higher now than it was at the commencement of the Government.

The Constitution of the United States, as the act of the people and the public voice, contemplated a compensation to the members of Congress. Did not this mean something more than the bare discharge of their expenses? Yet Congress had not gone beyond it.

When Congress sat at New York, Mr. B. said that he was in a situation more favorable in point of expense than any gentleman on the floor, who did not reside in that city. He boarded with a near relation, and was in a manner in his own family; and, although he paid the usual price of boarding as at other places, yet there were a thousand nameless small articles which saved him many advances. He was within sixteen miles of his own family, from whence he received many things that prevented his laying out money. During three sessions, he kept an exact and faithful account of his expenditures, and, at the end of that time, the balance was but 43s. 4d.; but on which side of the question his memory did not allow him to say. At present, he was also under very peculiar advantages, yet he was confident that, at the end of the session, he should not have any balance in his favor from his compensation as a member. Mr. B. appealed to every gentleman's own knowledge, and particularly to the gentleman who made the motion, if he thought that what he received would more than pay his expenses.

Gentlemen were often crying out against an Aristocracy in this country; yet measures of this kind tended to establish one, by reducing the compensation of members, so that no citizen but the rich and affluent could attend as a Representative in Congress. This certainly was the most effectual way of bringing about a dangerous Aristocracy in the United States. Should not men of abilities, though in the middle walks of life, be encouraged to come forward and yield their services to their country, without being dependent on any person or set of men whatever? Is it not sufficient that their time and talents are given to the public? Must they pay their expenses too?

Mr. B. was aware that the resolution proposed related to the officers of Government as well as members of Congress, but he had confined his remarks to the last, as the part of the subject he was best acquainted with. He begged gentlemen to look around and point out the public officer who received more than a reasonable reward for his services. Professional men, of the first abilities, were absolutely necessary to carry on the public business; and could any one, fit for his office, be shown who could not do full as well, if not much better, in the exercise of his profession in private life than he did in the public service, if pecuniary matters were his only object? In short, (Mr. B. said,) this House was placed between Scylla and Charybdis. The public officers were complaining, and even resigning, for want of sufficient compensation for their services; on the other hand, an attempt was now made to reduce their salaries still lower, on the supposed clamors of the people. Mr. B. did not believe they could be denominated those of the people; neither did he see any evidence of the fact. He did not consider the complaints of a few individuals as the public voice. Ought not the gentlemen to come forward with some kind of calculations or estimates to have shown that certain salaries were too high, or more than the services performed were entitled to? This had not been done; but the committee were urged, at this important moment, to proceed to an inquiry, which every gentleman on the floor already knew as well as he could do by the most labored investigation. He therefore concluded that, to agree to the resolution, would be a waste of the short time that yet remained of the session, and an unwise measure. Mr. B. would have contented himself with joining the committee in a silent vote on this subject, but he thought the observations made in support of the measure ought to receive some answer, if not to convince the committee, yet to satisfy their constituents that there could exist no necessity for a present inquiry of this nature.

Mr. W. SMITH said, that the resolution was, in its present shape, so extremely vague, that one did not know how to give it a definition or a vote. Different objects were lumped together. If, by an inquiry, the gentleman meant to examine into the wages of members of this House, it was quite needless to appoint a committee, because every member can at this moment speak for himself. But Mr. S. did not consider the present time as the most proper for beginning to reduce salaries, when, within the last twelve months, there had been three resignations, viz: the Secretary of State, the Secretary of War, and the Secretary of the Treasury, and all chiefly for one reason, the smallness of the salary. I have no doubt (said Mr. S.) of there being complaints, and, if the salary was reduced to three dollars per day, there would be still complaints, as we see is the case with the members of the Legislature of Pennsylvania. He only wished that the committee would rise, and he should then vote in the House that they might not have leave to sit again. The mover of this resolution had mentioned the danger of meeting with reproaches from the people, who thought their salaries too high. Mr. S. saw very little in this matter, because the people who railed at the salary of six dollars per day, were only anxious to get in themselves, and embraced this topic as an expedient of ousting those members whom they wanted to succeed.

Mr. GOODHUE wished to ask Mr. CLAIBORNE one question, "Whether he found himself growing rich?"

Mr. SEDGWICK saw no occasion for rising, because the committee were perfectly competent at this moment to determine the question.

Mr. RUTHERFORD was for reducing the salaries by one dollar per day, and one dollar every twenty-five miles that the members had to travel. This would be a reduction of one hundred dollars per day, which would be much better bestowed upon the innocent widow of the veteran, who had fallen in the service of his country.

Mr. PAGE said, that he did not think the resolution, as it was worded, was a proper subject for discussion in that place; for the House, and not a committee, could properly resolve that committees should be appointed. However, as the resolution had been submitted by the House to the consideration of the Committee of the Whole, it must be examined; but, as to the object of it, that he thought was more properly before the committee, as proposed by the resolution; for, as I have remarked on other occasions, if, instead of discussing a question fully, and collecting the sense of all the members in a Committee of the Whole, it be referred to a committee of one member from each State, that committee might be unanimous in favor of a resolution, against which, eighteen members for Virginia, and a proportionate number from other States, might vote; or, by the weight of that committee, the resolution might be carried, which could not have passed had it been fully and freely discussed in the House. Here, then, my colleague's question should be examined, as I cannot say (as has been said by one of them) that I had no hand in fixing the salaries and pay of the officers of Government and members of Congress, having actually voted at New York for them as they now stand. I think I may, with propriety, give my opinion respecting it. And I am clearly of opinion, sir, that the question arises from a misapprehension of the subject to which it is applied; for there cannot be a greater mistake than to suppose that parsimony in a Republic is necessary to its support. A certain degree of economy is so; but parsimony, applied to the salaries of public officers, and the Representatives in particular, may be ruinous to the interests of a Republic. Should the salaries be so low that men of small fortunes cannot afford to serve their country, it must be deprived of their assistance, and we must accept of the services of the rich, who, to have their wills, though low, will serve even without pay; or, the State will be served by artful demagogues, by ready, designing men, who may, in pursuit of profit as well as popularity, cut out places for themselves and friends, producing at length confusion and anarchy, or, at least, such a bungling system of legislation as will cost more time and money to rectify their blunders than the most extravagant salaries could amount to. What true Republican could wish to exclude from a seat in Congress a physician, lawyer, merchant, farmer, or any other person possessed of such well-known abilities and virtues as to attract the attention and respect of a district which might wish to intrust its interests to him as a Representative? Or, rather, who ought not to desire that, as all offices are open to all, that the son of the poorest citizen might be enabled, if qualified to fill a seat here or elsewhere, to do it without sacrificing his private interest? Is it reasonable to expect that men should sacrifice domestic ease and the interests of their families to serve their country? It is not just to require it. Human nature, except on great and trying occasions, cannot obey such a requisition. My colleague says that he is not a man of fortune; but, has he not a profession by which he can make more than by his attendance on this House? If not, he has not a right to require such a sacrifice of any other person's time and talents. The constitution, far from requiring any thing like it, demands that compensation shall be made for all services; and who will desire less for services than a mere subsistence for a person whilst actually employed in such service? I am sure that less than the present pay of members of Congress would not, in their present situation, be a subsistence. I recollect that, when the House of Representatives were debating, in the first session, at New York, whether their daily pay should be four, five, or six dollars, I affirmed that the expenses of the members where I boarded required that it should be six, that the State of Virginia having once allowed her delegates to Congress eight dollars, and never less than six, when she bore the whole expense, could not object to her Representatives receiving that sum, when divided, as it was, amongst the States, and spread out over the various duties and taxes of the United States. I asked those, as I might ask my colleague now, who of our constituents could calculate what he would save by any proposed reduction of our pay? I have long suspected, sir, that Republics have lost more by parsimony than they were aware of, and that a misapprehension of some practices in ancient Republics has been artfully kept up, so as to favor Aristocracy and Monarchy. The British Parliament has now no pay; but have they been as independent as their countrymen wished them under the British Government?

In reply to the member who had objected to the pay of the SPEAKER, and the difference between the pay of members of the two Houses, Mr. P. said, that whoever would consider the duty of the SPEAKER; his long confinement to the chair; his painful attention to every word spoken in the House, and his responsibility for the correctness of the journals--an examination of which must take up much of his time--would surely not think his pay too great. As to the difference between the pay of a Senator and Representative, he had voted for it, from a belief that a Senator having more services to perform than a Representative, had a right to more pay. The Senate not only have to originate bills as this House has, and to revise and amend bills sent from hence, and often to correct the careless errors they contain, but to make themselves acquainted with the law of nations, and to be prepared to judge of treaties; and also of offences brought before them by impeachments. When the Senators may have gone through the labors of a long session, and the Representatives are returning home, they may be called upon to consider certain nominations to offices, or certain treaties; and at another time to try certain impeachments. Besides all this, the age of a Senator must be such, by the constitution, that it is probable that his family is larger, and his pursuits in life more fixed and profitable than those of a Representative, who may be elected when only twenty-five, and therefore his services must require higher compensation. As to the PRESIDENT and VICE-PRESIDENT's salaries, I voted for a larger sum than was allowed to either, and thought that the disproportion between them was too great. With respect to the judges, I still think their salaries too small, and so should every one think who will consider the vast importance of their office; the labor of both mind and body which it requires; the laborious course of study through which a man must have gone to be qualified for it, and the lucrative employment such a one must have given up to undertake it. In short, I do not recollect a salary which I think too high. And I must repeat it, that I do not think that large salaries in a Republic can injure it; but that small, inadequate salaries may overturn a Republic.

I am sorry that the question has been brought before us respecting our own pay this session, because the elections in Virginia are not over; it would become us much better another session, if re-elected, to reduce it, than to do so when we may be left out. Besides, if I vote for a reduction, I may be suspected of courting popularity; and, if against it, of despising the opinions of my constituents, if they have adopted those which some members tell us prevail amongst their constituents. I do not like to be in such a dilemma, nor to have my independence unnecessarily tried. I wish, as the question is before us, that it may be fully debated here, and even referred to the further consideration of a select committee; because I think the opinions even of a single member and his district should be treated with respect; and that when they have been fairly proved to be founded in error, there will be an end of complaints, and an acquiescence in the decision of this House.

Mr. GILLESPIE proposed an amendment, the scope of which was, that a committee should be appointed to examine and report whether any and what alterations were necessary in the act fixing salaries to the officers under Government. He suggested this amendment from no motive whatever but what was fair. There had been, and there still was, a degree of clamor upon the subject, and it was the duty of the House to pay attention to the voice of the public, whether right or wrong. If, upon investigation, it should appear that the salaries were not higher than they ought to be, then the report of the committee would be the best method for stopping the public clamor.

Mr. CLAIBORNE hoped that the committee would not rise, but decide the point. He trusted that no gentleman would again point at him, and say that the motion came out of his brain. There was not one officer under Government whom he would point out and say, that such an officer had too high a salary. He had expectations that this discussion, by bringing forward the observations of several gentlemen, would in some degree satisfy the people, and that there would be no more pointing out with a finger and saying, "There goes a six-dollars-a-day man."

Another member observed, that it was the duty of the House to attend to the voice of their constituents, and for this reason, he should vote for a committee. He would mention what he had always considered as a most odious distinction, the additional dollar per day, which is to be paid to the Senate from and after the 4th of March next. [The reader will observe, that by the act, members of the Senate were to have seven dollars per day, but the additional dollar was not to commence till the lapse of six years,[58] when all the Senators of the first Congress had gone out.] There was another thing for which he never could see any reason, and that was the giving of the twelve dollars per day to the SPEAKER.

Mr. GILES was perfectly convinced that the allowance to the members is small enough already. The saving of a dollar per day suggested by Mr. RUTHERFORD, would be but little, and it was beginning at the worst of resources. The pay ought to be such as would bring persons of middling circumstances into the House; persons neither too high in life nor too low. If the pay was greatly reduced, none but very rich people could afford to give their attendance, and if too high, a seat in the House might be an object to persons of an opposite description. Formerly the State of Virginia allowed eight dollars per day to the members of its Legislature. This sum had since been reduced to six dollars. Mr. G. mentioned this to show that in the practice of individual States, there might be found a precedent for the allowance to members of Congress. He was for voting directly. Mr. G. said, that there was a country from which America had copied a great deal, and very often too much; a country which still had a very pernicious influence in the United States. The members of the British House of Commons received no wages, while the officers of State had immense salaries. It was however understood, that the British House of Commons were very well paid for the trouble of their attendance. Mr. G. did not wish to see scenes of that kind in this country.

Mr. HILLHOUSE hoped that the House would have done with this thing immediately, as it had now answered all the purposes expected from it, and he trusted that all motions of that sort which had an eye to certain operations out of the House, would meet with the same fate.

The motion was negatived by a very great majority.

[Before the adjournment, the SPEAKER suggested to the House a considerable inconvenience, occasioned by gentlemen being introduced, and occupying such parts of the House without the bar as were particularly allotted for the use of the House, and of which several members complained. There was often so great a crowd that members could scarce walk round when they had papers to present to the Chair. The passage was often obstructed when messages were to be delivered, and frequently there was no room left for the members when they wished to confer privately with each other. As he did not conceive himself authorized to give special directions without orders from the House, he would take the liberty to suggest to the members of the House, when introducing their friends, the propriety of placing them under the galleries to the left of the Chair, and reserving the space to the right of the Chair for the members of both branches of the Legislature, the diplomatic gentlemen, judges, and other officers of Government; which was generally acquiesced in.]

THURSDAY, January 29.

AARON KITCHELL, returned to serve in this House, as a member for the State of New Jersey, in the room of Abraham Clark, deceased, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to him by Mr. SPEAKER, according to law.

Thomas Person and others.[59]

The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. COBB in the chair, to resume the consideration of the claims of Thomas Person and others, to certain lands lying on the frontier of the State of North Carolina, and ceded by the Commissioners of the United States to the Indians.

Mr. GILLESPIE took up the subject in the same stage in which it stood before he spoke the preceding day. He said, let us examine the conduct of other States. Did not New York dispose of lands within her chartered limits, and from the sales become wealthy, as she has large sums in the funds? The State of Virginia took advantage of the purchase of Henderson and Company, for that part now called Kentucky, although they now exclaim that the purchase was unlawful; yet, unlawful as it was, it has extinguished the Indian title to those lands. Now, if the purchase of Henderson and Company had this effect on the north-east side of Walker's line, which divides Kentucky from the South-west Territory, is it not just that it should have the same effect on the south-west side, when made by the same persons, on the self-same day? And surely the rights of North Carolina must be at least equal to those of Kentucky, in every thing except that of power. But is Congress going to legislate by strength of arm? I hope not. It has been admitted, by some who have spoken on the subject, that the citizens of North Carolina have a right of redress by law, and by others, against her own Legislature. To the first of these I ask, against whom is the suit to commence? Are our citizens, thus bereft of their property, to be compelled to litigate suits at law for property taken for public use, and for which they have a just claim against the United States; or have they not an equal right to compensation for that which the United States, by their agent, took from them, as other citizens are entitled to, for property piratically taken on the high seas, by the robbers of Britain? And do we, in the last case, say to these unfortunate sufferers, commence suits against those who have injured you? No. Government has taken the litigation in hand, at her own cost. Let her do so with the citizens of North Carolina. Or, will the Government of the United States support the claim of the injured against her own Executive? Will they do it against the State of North Carolina? They cannot; and from what has been said in this matter, it is plain that, as the Government of the United States has converted the property of the citizens of North Carolina to the uses of her Government, compensation ought to be made out of the public purse, as the contrary would, on her part, destroy that bond of union between her, as the sovereign power of the United States, and her citizens, and as not only bound to govern with justice, but also to protect them from all manner of injury, as well domestic as foreign. Mr. G. apologized, that he was without authority in the House, but would pledge his reputation that what he should advance, if not verbatim, should be in substance with the author quoted:

"It is admitted by many, that the sovereign authority possesses a power, under the laws of eminent domain, to alienate the property of the subject, for the benefit of the Commonwealth, by impending public necessity against private injury." But, without doubt, they "that have lost or sacrificed their property to the public safety in such extremity, ought to have satisfaction made, as far as possible, by the Commonwealth. Any thing short of this would destroy the reciprocity between the sovereign and subject."--Puffendorf, b. 8, c. 5, § 7.

But can public necessity be urged in the present case to justify this kind of political robbery? I answer, no. If the Indians are to be kept in peace by bribes, why not, in this, as in other similar cases, by presents and pecuniary rewards? Is it not an indignity to the United States to purchase peace from an Indian nation, at the expense of a part of her citizens, whose resources at best were scanty, and are, by this and other speculations, almost annihilated? Surely it is. And, let me add, is it not an invariable axiom with all authors on Government,

"That all sacrifices of property made by individuals for the public benefit or accommodation, should or ought to be paid out of the public revenue, and that one should not bear more of the burden than another."--Burlamaqui, b. 8, c. 5, § 27, 28.

Is it not, then, obvious to all, who will reflect on this subject, that compensation is due to these individuals, whose property has been wrested from them for Government purposes? The same author observes, in the 38th section of the same chapter:

"That as no subject can assume any part of the sovereign power without the consent of the whole, neither can any sovereign authority deprive the subject of his right and property, nor substitute another sovereign over him without his consent."

The public is in nothing more essentially interested than in the protection of every individual's private rights, as modelled by the municipal law in this and similar cases. The Legislature can, and frequently does interpose, and compel the individual to acquiesce. But how does it interpose and compel? Not by stripping the individual of his property in an arbitrary manner. No. But by giving him full and ample indemnification for the injury sustained; for there must be an end of all social commerce between man and man, unless private possessions be secured from unjust invasions. Thus, the protection of a State, in every precedent to be found in books that treat of the fundamental laws of civil society, or in the resolutions and acts of the British Parliament, means restitution, indemnity, or compensation. Grotius, when treating of the right of the sovereign authority to give up or take the property of the subject, calls it "restitution, satisfaction;" Burlamaqui, "indemnity, and indemnifying the subject for the injury sustained;" and Vattel, "recompense out of the public money." It is farther observed, that cases of this kind operate, like property thrown into the sea to save the ship, by making an estimate of the loss, and causing an equal average on the property saved, which each owner is bound to pay. So that, from the fullest conviction, I am of opinion the citizens of North Carolina are entitled to the relief reported by the select committee, and that strict justice requires we should comply with it; for, as I have said, in nothing is the Government of the United States more concerned, in a superlative degree, than in doing strict justice to her citizens, as of the last importance in preserving the affections of the people to the Government. Vacancies in our departments, civil, judicial, or military, may be supplied as well, but to restore the confidence of a people borne down with oppression, exceeds comprehension. It is like attempting to return from the grave--is without precedent, and is vain labor indeed. At different epochs it has shook the foundations of monarchies, and caused tyrants to tremble and atone for their crimes with their lives; and, as I said at an early stage of the debate, if usurpers, tyrants, and despots have been compelled to do justice by this undeniable law of nature, shall the Government of the United States, founded on the pure principles of Democracy, be less just? Surely not. Have we received a power to exercise in wantonly oppressing those who gave it? God forbid! Therefore, let it ever be impressed on our minds, that justice exalteth a nation. The House, I hope, will pardon my detaining them, at a time when every moment is precious. But the duty I owe to my injured constituents forbids silence, and will, I hope, be a sufficient apology. I shall, therefore, submit to the judgment of the House, not doubting but justice will be done.

Mr. NICHOLAS was satisfied that the purchasers of the lands had a claim either against the United States or the State of North Carolina. Much had been said about the Indian right; but the Indians never had been fit to occupy these lands. It could never have been the design of nature that these people should be termed the possessors of land which they were incapable to enjoy. He was, upon the whole, on the side of the claimants, though he enumerated some of the difficulties that would attend an attempt to please all parties.

Mr. W. SMITH had found much difficulty in forming his opinion upon this question. He had at first been somewhat disposed against the claimants, but at last, after full deliberation, he was convinced of the justice of giving them redress. He requested the particular attention and candor of the House. The United States were, in this case, made a judge in their own cause, and therefore it became more their duty to examine every part of the subject with the more accuracy. Mr. S. then began a distinct detail of the circumstances in the present dispute. Previous to the year 1776, North Carolina was a British Colony, and the British Crown considered itself as entitled to bestow grants of territory. In that year, North Carolina became a sovereign State, and consequently she conceived herself as succeeding to the right of the British Crown, and as having a right to bestow grants in the same way as the Kings of Great Britain had done. This claim was asserted in her general Declaration of Rights, and it was incorporated into her constitution. When North Carolina entered into the Union, all the Legislative rights of the State were preserved, and, by a necessary inference, her title to the lands comprehended in her original charter. In 1783, the State opened an office to sell the absolute right of such lands as had not been disposed of. In 1789, North Carolina ceded the right of jurisdiction to the United States, but she reserved her own Legislative rights, and consequently her right to sell the lands within her own territory; and in disposing of the lands in question, the State did not intend merely to sell the right of pre-emption from the Indians, but the absolute title to the lands. Mr. S. read a part of the constitution of North Carolina, in order to explain what degree of legislation the State had conceded to the Federal Government, and what part she reserved to herself; and he was clearly of opinion, that the disposal of the lands had been reserved. In 1783 the State offered these lands for sale. In 1786, the Commissioners of the United States assigned a great part of them to the Indians. In 1788, the Legislature of North Carolina declared that they would support the purchasers. The grand question now is, did the State, by acceding to the confederation, give up her right of legislation? She gave up her right to make Indian treaties, but reserved that of legislation, because, as above observed, it formed a part of her constitution, which was understood to continue unviolated. These lands were bought with certificates, which it was alleged, on the other side, would purchase nothing else. If the certificates would purchase nothing else, it was proper at least that they should have been restored to their first owners, who might have subscribed them to a part of the public debt of the United States. They were certainly entitled either to their land or their certificates. These certificates, which were paid into the Treasury of North Carolina, were those of the United States. If the owners had only a pre-emption right, Mr. S. insisted that the certificates should be returned.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, that this was quite a new fact to him, and if it was as stated, there was no necessity for Legislative interference at all. The State of North Carolina had only to come forward and subscribe them to the Treasury.

Mr. W. SMITH explained, that when delivered into the Treasury of North Carolina, they had been cancelled. After this they were again ordered to be made current by the subscriptions of the officers of the State, and in that shape they were offered to the Commissioners of Loans, who refused to accept them. The exact amount of the certificates could still be ascertained, as well as the names of the persons to whom they belonged. They had been cancelled, but not destroyed.

Mr. BOUDINOT imagined that Mr. SMITH had furnished a new and forcible argument against his own cause. This claim of North Carolina to sell the lands was wrong, and this doctrine had been the cause of all the disputes in which the Federal Government has been engaged. The Crown of Britain had never pretended to any right of this kind, nor ever thought it had a title to any lands till they were first purchased from the Indians. The question before the committee was, have the United States taken away any claim which the purchasers of these lands had? And the answer is, that the United States have not. The State of North Carolina only had a right to sell the privilege of pre-emption. This was the only right which the purchasers obtained, and this right they still possess. As to the certificates, they were not those of the United States, but those of North Carolina. They were not Continental certificates, and for that reason Continental officers would not accept them; but North Carolina has since brought these certificates into her account against the General Government. The commissioners, in 1786, had done a very great service to North Carolina, by settling a line of boundary, and putting an end to the Indian war. He thought that the best way would be for the claimants to apply to the Executive, and agree among themselves to extinguish, by an interference of that kind, the Indian right. This would be much better than for the House to involve itself in the purchase of an immense tract of land, at an expense of seven or eight hundred thousand dollars, (or how much more, Mr. B. could not tell,) when there was so much occasion for the money to pay the national debt. He again declared that he should think it the best way to obtain the good offices of the Executive in extinguishing the Indian right. The Six Nations possessed part of the territory of Pennsylvania. This State also may apply to the General Government for redress, if North Carolina were to get payment for these lands. The State of New York may do so, for the same reasons as North Carolina. This would be involving the Government in an endless labyrinth. He was as unwilling as any gentleman in the House to interfere with the rights of the Legislature of North Carolina. But he did not wish to see the House going blindfold into the business. The United States have too much land already.

Mr. KITTERA.--The certificates must have been given in by North Carolina to the United States. She denied the right of the commissioners, in 1786, to make Indian treaties, but now that right is given up. He agreed with Mr. BOUDINOT as to his observations on Pennsylvania. Georgia also, he said, had about sixty millions of acres within her chartered limits. The business would never have an end, if the General Government was to interfere in all these cases.

Mr. SCOTT.--Has not this Government a right to restrain every wild-goose excursion into the woods? If it has not, the Union must fall prostrate at the feet of every wild speculator. Pennsylvania, at a great expense, made preparations for an establishment at Presqu'Isle. The ground had been bought at a great expense from the United States. Yet for the sake of general peace, the settlement had been stopped.

Mr. MCDOWELL denied that the two cases corresponded, for the lands at Presqu'Isle had not been given to the Six Nations.

Mr. BOUDINOT differed from the last speaker. He did not think that any thing farther had been done against the interest of North Carolina than against that of Pennsylvania.

Mr. BLOUNT denied that the Indians ever occupied the lands in question, or were fit to occupy them, in any proper sense of the word. To walk across a country, and to shoot in it, was different from an occupation. But, besides, the Creeks and Cherokees were not the only tribes who had hunted there. It had been said yesterday that these lands gave rise to speculation. Mr. B. wished that it had done so, for in that case the certificates would all have been paid by this time. There was no difficulty in funding Southern certificates, when once they got into the hands of Northern speculators. Mr. B. thought himself entitled to receive back from the United States the money which he had paid into the Treasury of North Carolina for these lands.

Mr. MURRAY requested the favor of any gentleman to inform him, whether the lands in question were possessed and occupied, in the more civilized sense of the terms, by the white people? He believed they were not. Had they been in peaceable possession, living on, and cultivating the lands, that circumstance would form a very interesting motive in his mind in favor of the indemnity that was asked. But, in fact, they never were possessed of any right but that which North Carolina could give them--the pre-emption right; that right they now possessed as fully as they did at the time of the cession to the United States. [Mr. CARNES rose, and informed him, that many white people who had begun farms were driven off their lands, and reduced to great distress by the proceedings of the commissioners.] Mr. M. said, an argument struck him of some weight--that if the claim be gratified, the claimants will be in a better situation now than they would have been if the cession had not been made; for North Carolina could not have given them absolute possession but by force of arms. This she would not have a right to do, under this Confederation, nor under the constitution, as no one State can make war. But the claimants can ask nothing more of the United States than they could have had accomplished for them by the State of North Carolina. A new doctrine, resulting from the Revolution, must be admitted as a ground of reasoning, when Indian, unconquered territory, is before us. The Provinces had power, as individual bodies--which States, as such, have not--the right of making war, and gaining possession of Indian territory by conquest. So it was, that a province could, from its own separate resources, make war on Indians, and pay individually the expense. But when the great contest for independence came on, all the States were, in fact, principal confederated bodies, long before they signed the paper of confederation. The doctrine, which suited such a body of States, was, that whatever might be gained by the joint efforts and expense of all, should be the property of all, jointly; and he thought that every principle of sound justice warranted him in applying the doctrine, so far as to say, that whatever might be the chartered limits of each province, while dependent, yet the moment of the joint contest was that in which the true limits of a State were, as far as property in land went, confined to that boundary which was really located, occupied, and peaceably holden within the limits. To say that the State had a right more positive than the pre-emptive one, to lands actually occupied and defended by hostile tribes of Indians within the chartered limits, admits a principle, that, if put into action, tended necessarily to violate the great principle of the Confederation, and of the present constitution, which divests the individual States of the right to make war; as the State to make good any sales she might make within the hostile territory, would be obliged to make war on the tribes to dispossess them. The lands in question were in this situation. They were occupied by Indian tribes, and were never in possession of North Carolina. The gentleman from that State seems to doubt the occupancy of the tribes. Mr. M. believed we would violate principles of justice were we to borrow the principle of occupancy from books, and apply it to Indian society. The Indian tribes held certain tracts of land. As to the mode in which they thought it most rational to use the land, it was nothing against their right to say its exercise differed from our mode. He understood they made a hunting ground of the land in dispute. They had a right to use it as such, and their mode of use was no argument against their right. All that could be, or was proved to belong to North Carolina, was the colonial right to qualified sovereignty, called the pre-emption right. This was all she could grant, and this was all that the claimants could take from her. They had that now; and as he could not see the propriety of making their situation better than if the cession had not been made, so he could not agree to the resolution for giving them indemnity. Perhaps his ideas on the subject might be fashioned by local circumstances, belonging as he did to a State which had no share in those rich funds which the large frontier States possessed, he thought, very unjustly, in immense tracts of back lands. He felt it a duty to narrow all claims like the present as much as possible. Connecticut, Rhode Island, Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, were all in the same situation. They had no back lands, and were divested of the share they were justly entitled to in the back lands, which now bring immense funds of wealth into the land offices of those States which possess them.

Mr. HEISTER wished to have that part of the law read which relates to the species of certificates referred to in the debate; this was accordingly done. Mr. H. said that he had not enough of evidence before him to give a vote. He therefore wished that the committee might rise.

Mr. MACON said, that, according to Mr. BOUDINOT, it was the doctrine of North Carolina in 1783, that the State possessed aright to the unappropriated lands. If that was their doctrine then, nothing had since happened which could make it cease to be so now. The Crown of Britain had transferred the absolute property of lands, without inquiring for permission from the Indians. This evidence went strongly to prove that North Carolina had the same title. The case of Presqu'Isle did not apply, for Pennsylvania was raising troops to make that settlement, and no State can, by the constitution, raise troops of itself. He wished the committee not to rise till they had determined the question.

Mr. CARNES had foreseen that the claim before the committee would be opposed upon various grounds: but he considered none of them as well founded. Grants were first made by North Carolina to individuals, of lands within her chartered boundary. The cession made to, and accepted by the United States, conditioned to secure the interest of individuals. A treaty was thereafter ordered to be held by the United States with the Indians, and by that treaty, lands formerly granted, were relinquished to them. The commissioners of North Carolina protested in form. The people turned out, had paid ten pounds the hundred acres, for their lands, and they were entitled to compensation from North Carolina, or from the United States. It had been said that North Carolina had no right but that of pre-emption. This Mr. C. denied. North Carolina had a right to all the lands within her boundary; and there was an express agreement reserving those lands to individuals. Why did the United States contract with the State, if she had no right? The Indians never could have been considered an independent nation, else there would be compensation in imperio. He mentioned the case of the Tallissee Country containing four million of acres. By a treaty made in 1785, between the State of Georgia and the Creeks, this land was ceded to Georgia. By a second treaty at New York, this very country was relinquished to the Indians, and of course the bona fide right of the State wrested from them. If a decision could be had on this case before a judicial tribunal, it would not require a moment's hesitation to determine in favor of the State, and that the treaty was a nullity. It had been alleged that the right of pre-emption was the only right in possession of the States, that is, a title to purchase of the holders of the property, in exclusion of all other States, or individuals thereof or the particular State. Mr. C. contended that the fee-simple of all the soil within the chartered limits belonged to the State. As to the boundaries, the definitive treaty of peace settles them beyond contradiction. As to the proprietors of these lands being in no worse condition now than before the cession back to the Indians, the people were ploughing the lands, when driven from them, and will any gentleman say that this is not injuring people? As to the State of North Carolina having no particular claim to the land now beyond the Indian line, he would put a case within the chapter of possibilities. Suppose that all the Indians were driven over the Mississippi to-morrow, to whom would the lands which they now possess belong? The particular States to be sure, within whose range they lay. The gentlemen who advocate for morality, and who talk of treating the Indians with humanity, are the very men who have uniformly countenanced the raising of troops, and augmenting the force on our north-western frontiers. How can they reconcile their conduct? The Indians to the South are to be treated with humanity, and those to the North are to be butchered, that the United States may enjoy their property.

Mr. BOUDINOT said, that the charter from Britain extended to the South Sea, but such a stretch of territory was not really claimed by Britain. He read several of the old laws of North Carolina, to prove that the Indian right of soil had always been acknowledged.

Mr. BLOUNT had never thought of quoting this book, which he now did, to show that the British Government had authorized conquest. He did not know of one purchase made in Carolina. It was all conquest, and so were nine-tenths of all the lands held by the white people in America.

Mr. MCDOWELL.--Those lands which are the subject of debate, and which a number of gentlemen have contended, that North Carolina had not a right to grant to her citizens, have been proved to be within the chartered limits as granted by Charles II., and which limits, sovereignty and jurisdiction were guaranteed to the State by the Articles of Confederation.

After this, and within the year 1783, the Legislature passed a law for opening an office to receive entries of lands in the district of country now called the territory south of the Ohio, for the redemption of special and other certificates; and after a number of the surveys were made, and the grants issued, the Government of the United States ordered a treaty to be held with the Cherokee Indians at Holston, in the year 1785, and the commissioners agreed to give up a large quantity of lands before stated to the Indians; but, previous to articles being signed, Colonel Blount, who was the agent for North Carolina, entered his protest in behalf of the State, that some of the articles about to be entered into between the commissioners, on the part of the United States, and the Cherokee Indians, would infringe on the Legislative rights of the State of North Carolina, and the Legislature of the State also protested against the proceedings.

I must here remark, that the then Government of the United States, agreeably to the Articles of Confederation, could not legally make use of the property of the State for any purpose without their consent.

This continued to be the situation of this business, till after Congress requested a cession of those lands, with the sovereignty thereof, which now form the territory south of the Ohio, which was complied with under certain reservations, to continue claims, and the situations of the claimants as good as though this cession had not been made, which was a complete acknowledgment of the right of North Carolina, on the part of the United States, but in my opinion placed them in the same situation that the State would have been in, had the cession not taken place.

Since the adoption of the present Government, another treaty was ordered to be held with the Indians, and the lands were given up to the Indians. Here the Executive right to make such treaty may be questioned, and I believe rightly too; for it would be an extraordinary power for them to make use of the property of individuals, without their consent, or making any compensation, and apply it to national purposes. Great difficulties would be involved were a remedy to be attempted in a judicial way against the Government. I do therefore think either that policy or interest, on the part of the United States, would point out a compliance, in part, with the report on the table, for it will not place the United States in any worse situation than they would have been in, had the lands not been entered. Had that been the case, those certificates would have been in the hands of individuals, a debt against the Government, but on their being subscribed now, to the amount actually paid on their relinquishing their claim, you would then have the land, which will be valuable at a period far distant.

Some gentlemen appear to be alarmed at the sum; but if the principle is a just or fair one, the sum ought not to be an objection. I will here state further, to remove the alarms of those gentlemen, that the sum will fall far short of the statement made by Mr. Jefferson, as a great deduction is to be taken from that; but I can further assert, that a great number of the claimants would not relinquish their claim to said lands to subscribe; it would generally be such as are in indigent circumstances. And here I cannot help making some reply to the objections stated by several members, who have alleged that North Carolina had acted wrong in selling these lands before they had extinguished the Indian claim, and that the claimants were in no worse situation than they would have been had the cession not have taken place. I am not a little surprised to find, that gentlemen cannot see the distinction, for had the cession and treaty at Holston taken place, they were at liberty to settle the lands, and North Carolina was bound to protect them; but since the treaty had been made, the land is not only given up as stated, but it is made criminal to cross the boundary. Mr. DEXTER has stated that North Carolina has acted unjustly and wrong in making sale of those lands before she had extinguished the Indian claims.

Here I shall repeat what I stated before in answer to what the gentleman has said: That the Indian claims to said lands were, in part, extinguished by Henderson's purchase, and part by conquest, and that a considerable part of the lands, that no nation of Indians could establish a claim to, had been claimed by different tribes as territory grounds, but had not been inhabited by any tribe within the memory, or any account that can be traced, and for as great a length of time the different tribes had been at war with each other about the right of hunting on said land. But so far as it relates to the right of North Carolina, I believe no member has a right to call it in question at this time. The gentleman's arguments would have been more applicable at the time the cession act was under consideration; and as to what the member said about the principle and precedent it would fix, I will only call the attention of that gentleman and the committee, to the conduct of the Government of the United States. Have they not pushed conquests into the Indian country north-west of the Ohio? Are they not continuing to do so, and is it not in contemplation to sell large quantities of lands in that country, that have never been purchased? If so, the precedent which the gentleman fears so much is already established. But here I beg leave to call the attention of the committee, in the most serious manner, to the number of citizens concerned, perhaps near twenty thousand. A great number of them are men who turned out in support of the American Independence, who fought, who bled, and furnished their property freely to the support of the cause. For this service they received certificates, which they wished to realize by entering said lands, and flattered themselves with sitting down on those lands, and in the latter part of life making themselves and families happy. Their hopes were soon blasted. After the act of last session, the Treaty of Holston took place, which gave their property to a savage and cruel enemy, to quiet the minds of an enemy who not only were opposed to us through the war with Britain, but ever since have been imbruing their hands in the blood of innocent women and children. What will be the feelings of the claimants, who have acted as I have stated, when they find that their request, which to be sure is a modest one, and which is only to be reimbursed for sums actually paid, is refused? Should this be the decision, I leave you to draw the conclusion. Should they proceed to settle those lands in opposition to the treaty, I should not be much surprised. But the report on your table goes too far, as to damage and a future preference, which I am not in favor of; therefore the resolutions in the latter part of the report I hope will be stricken out.

On the same question, Mr. GILLESPIE made the subsequent remarks: he observed a disposition in the House to call the question; he then said that the situation in which he stood required that he should say something in support of the resolution under consideration, as it had been stated as a new and singular case, from which he took the liberty to dissent, as every writer on the law and usage of nations, held it as an invariable axiom, that all sacrifices of property made by individuals for public uses, ought to be paid out of the public purse. He stated the treaty between England, France, and Spain, in 1763, and the case of the loyalists in 1783, and as the hour of adjournment had arrived, concluded with a motion for the committee to rise and report progress.

The question was then put, Shall the committee now rise and report progress? This was negatived. The resolutions in the report were successively put, and lost.

The committee then rose; the Chairman reported progress, and the House adjourned.

FRIDAY, January 30.

The House proceeded to consider the report of the committee to whom was referred the Message from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, of the thirtieth of January, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-four, enclosing the copy of a letter from the Governor of North Carolina, covering a resolution of the Legislature of that State; as, also, the petitions of Thomas Person and others, proprietors of lands in the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio, and of the Trustees of the University of North Carolina, to which the Committee of the whole House had, yesterday, reported their disagreement: Whereupon,

The first resolution reported by the committee, being again read, in the words following, to wit:

"Resolved, That it shall be lawful for the Executive of the State of North Carolina to subscribe, by way of loan to the United States, the amount of all such certificates as have been deposited in payment for any lands, (reserved by the act of cession aforesaid,) in payment for any lands which may have been relinquished to the Indians by the treaty aforesaid, in trust for the persons by whom they were so deposited, according to their respective rights and interests:"

The question was taken, that the House do agree with the Committee of the whole House in their disagreement to the said first resolution, and it was resolved in the affirmative.

The second resolution reported by the committee, being again read, in the words following, to wit:

"Resolved, That the United States ought to reimburse the said persons the money which they have expended in having entries and surveys made, and in obtaining grants, and any other incidental charges which they have necessarily incurred, with interest; and that they should moreover make a reasonable allowance for the loss and damage which the petitioners have sustained, by having possession of the said land withheld from them:"

The question was taken, that the House do agree with the Committee of the whole House in their disagreement to the said second resolution, and resolved in the affirmative.

The third resolution reported by the committee, being again read, in the words following, to wit:

"And whereas, the grants to the aforesaid lands, made by virtue of an act of the Legislature of North Carolina, are valid to all intents and purposes, as coming fully within the purview of a condition contained in the act of session from the said State to the United States: therefore,

"Resolved, That, whenever the United States shall think proper to extinguish the Indian claim to the said lands, by purchase or otherwise, it will be just and reasonable that the several persons who have obtained grants or made surveys or entries, should have such rights confirmed and established, and their titles perfected, in preference to any other persons, on repaying to the Treasury of the United States, the amount of what they may now receive, as a compensation for their disbursements and losses, in case such persons shall think proper to make such repayment within a certain time, to be limited by Congress for that purpose:"

The question was taken that the House do agree with the Committee of the whole House, in their disagreement to the said third resolution, and resolved in the affirmative.

A motion was then made, and the question being put, that the House do agree to the following resolution:

"Resolved, That such persons as have entered lands agreeably to the laws of North Carolina, in the territory ceded by that State to the United States, and on the Indian side of the line established by the Treaty of Holston, ought to be reimbursed by the United States the amount of the purchase-money actually paid for the same, and the necessary expense of locating and surveying, where the survey has been made; such persons first relinquishing their right thereto, to the United States:"

It passed in the negative--yeas 14, nays 56, as follows:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, Thomas Blount, William B. Grove, George Hancock, Matthew Locke, Nathaniel Macon, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, John Page, Robert Rutherford, William Smith, Benjamin Wiliams, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.

NAYS.--Fisher Ames, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, Thomas Claiborne, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Jonathan Dayton, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Gabriel Duvall, Benjamin Edwards, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, John Heath, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Hunter, William Irvine, Aaron Kitchell; Amasa Learned, William Lyman, James Madison, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Andrew Pickens, Francis Preston, Thomas Scott, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Samuel Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Artemas Ward, and Paine Wingate.

Another motion was then made and seconded, that the House do come to the following resolution:

"RESOLVED, That the President of the United States be requested to cause a treaty to be entered into with any Indian tribes who may claim, hold, possess, or be entitled, to any lands within the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States; and to endeavor to obtain, by such treaty, an extinguishment of the Indian claims to all lands, the pre-emptive right to which has been sold by the said State, in pursuance of the act of one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three, opening an office for the sale of the said lands."

Ordered, That the said motion be committed to Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, Mr. DAYTON, Mr. SWIFT, Mr. MCDOWELL, and Mr. PAGE.

MONDAY, February 9.

ROBERT GOODLOE HARPER, returned to serve in this House as a member for the State of South Carolina, in the room of ALEXANDER GILLON, deceased, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

FRIDAY, February 13.

Heirs of Count de Grasse.

A memorial of Amelie, Adelaide, Melanie, and Silvie de Grasse, four daughters of the late Count de Grasse, now residing at Salem in the State of Massachusetts, was presented to the House and read, praying a loan of money for their present subsistence; the effects which they brought from France being exhausted, and having no other means of support, but in property in the Island of St. Domingo, from which, under present circumstances, no supplies can be drawn.

Ordered, That the said memorial be referred to Mr. AMES, Mr. MADISON, and Mr. GILMAN, with instruction to examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.

WEDNESDAY, February 18.

Count de Grasses Heirs.

The House then went into a committee on a memorial from the four daughters of the late Admiral Count de Grasse. It was read with the report from a select committee, which proposed to give each of these ladies, who are now residing in Boston, and in indigent circumstances, a thousand dollars, in consideration of the important services rendered by their father to the United States. To this proposal the committee agreed, and the Chairman reported the resolution.

The House then took up the report.

Mr. MACON objected that though the claims of the petitioners were strong, yet they were not more so than those of multitudes of others. On the very day when we have come to a resolution to receive no more petitions from our fellow-citizens, we are going to give so large a sum at once to foreigners. He was aware that the Count de Grasse had done eminent services to America, and he felt them as much as any person, but he still saw no reason for preferring these petitioners, when there were likely a hundred of the officers of De Grasse, or of Rochambeau's army, that were in this country, and in want.

Mr. DEXTER said, that if ever there was a case where it would be proper to act first, and thereafter try to find reasons for what had been done, this was such a case.

The report was, on a division, agreed to by a great majority--sixty-one gentlemen rising in the affirmative. The resolution is in the following words:

Resolved, That, in consideration of the extraordinary services rendered the United States by the late Count de Grasse in the year one thousand seven hundred and eighty-one, on the urgent request of the Commander-in-chief of the American forces, beyond the term limited for his co-operation with the troops of the United States, there be allowed and paid to Amelie, Adelaide, Melanie, and Silvie de Grasse, daughters of the late Count de Grasse, respectively the sum of one thousand dollars each.

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in, pursuant to the said resolution, and that Mr. AMES, Mr. MADISON, and Mr. GILMAN, do prepare and bring in the same.

SATURDAY, February 21.

An engrossed bill authorizing the payment of four thousand dollars for the use of the daughters of the late Count de Grasse, was read the third time and passed.

TUESDAY, February 24.

Case of Thomas Person and others.

It was moved that the House should go into consideration of the report of the select committee to whom had been referred a resolution of the House in relation to the back lands of North Carolina. The following is the resolution of the select committee:

"Resolved, That in case the President of the United States shall think proper to enter into a treaty or treaties with all or any of the Indian tribes claiming lands within the territory south of the river Ohio, for the extinguishment of their claims to all or any of the said lands, the sum of ---- dollars be, and the same is hereby, appropriated to the purpose of defraying the expenses of any such treaty or treaties."

Mr. GOODHUE did not see that the United States had any concern to interfere in such a purchase: it was private property.

Mr. DAYTON explained that the petition of Thomas Person and others comprehended only two millions of acres. The resolution contemplated twenty millions. It will, when completed, enable the United States to protect the Choctaws and Chickasaws from the Creeks and Cherokees, if the latter should happen to attack them; and that they will attack the Chickasaws is not improbable, from assistance which the latter have given to the white people. Besides, the frontier will be capable of defence, at a much cheaper rate, in this way than at present it can be. It is now an irregular line. A peculiar circumstance, besides, will make the lands easy to be purchased. No Indian tribes reside on them. When the gentleman from Massachusetts considers these things, he will not object, since the United States will gain eighteen millions of acres by the transaction.

Mr. GOODHUE admitted the reasoning as to the eighteen millions, but still scrupled as to the rest.

Mr. SWIFT recommended that the Indian claim should in the mean time be extinguished.

Mr. MCDOWELL, in reply to Mr. GOODHUE, said that if the gentleman had attended to the reasonings formerly used on this subject, and which had occupied considerable time of the House during the present session, he could have been at no loss for understanding the propriety of this purchase being made by the United States.

A committee were named to bring in a bill, in terms of the resolution recommended by the select committee.

WEDNESDAY, February 25.

Indian Lands in Georgia.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the report of the committee to whom was referred so much of the message from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, of the seventeenth instant, as relates to the disposition of Indian lands by the Legislature of the State of Georgia.

Mr. AMES said, that during the time when the National Debt bill was under discussion, he had attempted to get something introduced in favor of the new emission money creditors, but gentlemen always rose en masse against any proposal that would tend to obstruct the progress of the bill. He now again urged that this affair might be taken into consideration. He knew he should be told of a standing rule of the House that the unfinished business must first be taken up. These creditors had waited for four years without redress, and the rules of the House ought to give way to common feeling and common sense. He therefore moved that the rule in question should be suspended.

The motion was negatived, and the House then went into a committee upon the second and remaining resolutions in the report of the select committee on the Message of the PRESIDENT.

The following is a copy of the third and fourth resolutions in this report:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be authorized, whenever claims under prior contracts may cease to exist, to obtain a cession of the State of Georgia, of their claim to the whole or any part of the land within the present Indian boundaries; and that ---- dollars ought to be appropriated to enable him to effect the same.

"Resolved, That all persons who shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory south of the river Ohio, for the purpose of warring against the Indians, or committing depredations upon any Indian town, or persons, or property, shall thereby become liable and subject to the rules and articles of war, which are, or shall be established for the government of the troops of the United States."

After some discussion, the committee rose; the Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. This was negatived--yeas 33, nays 35.

The House then took up the resolutions. Various amendments were proposed; and the last resolution, in particular, was objected to, as subjecting people to martial law.

Mr. WADSWORTH said, that from a trial by jury he had no hopes. There never had been one instance of a white man condemned and hanged by white men, on the frontier, for the murder of an Indian, since the first landing in America. There might be such a thing for the murder of an Indian, when they lived among the whites. That there ever had been such a thing he did not know. He had been told by judges, upon the frontier, that it was no matter what evidence of a murder of an Indian was brought. No jury would bring the criminal in guilty. It was but very lately that a cool and unprovoked murder had been committed on the borders of this State upon an Indian. The evidence was clear. Nobody pretended to doubt it. The judge gave an earnest charge to the jury; but all to no purpose; they found "not guilty."

Mr. SEDGWICK proposed an amendment to the last resolution, as follows:

"Resolved, That all persons who shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory south of the river Ohio, for the purpose of warring against the Indians, or of committing depredations against any Indian town, or persons, or property, shall thereby become liable and subject to be taken and confined by the military force of the United States, in such manner as to be made amenable to, and triable by law."

Ordered, That the said motion be committed to Mr. SEDGWICK, Mr. MADISON, and Mr. HILLHOUSE.

FRIDAY, February 27.

Indian Lands in Georgia.

The House then went into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. SHERBURNE in the chair, on the report of the select committee to whom had been referred the motion of the 25th instant, respecting such persons as shall be assembled, or embodied in arms, on any lands belonging to Indians, out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio. The resolutions are as follow:

"Resolved, That all persons who, unauthorized by law, may be found in arms on any lands westward of the lines established by treaties with the Indian tribes, shall, on conviction thereof, forfeit a sum not exceeding ---- dollars, and be imprisoned not exceeding ---- months.

"Resolved, That it shall be lawful for the military force of the United States to apprehend every person or persons found in arms, as aforesaid, and him or them to convey to the civil authority of the United States, within some of the States, who shall, by such authority, be secured, to be tried in manner hereafter expressed.

"Resolved, That every person apprehended, as aforesaid, shall be tried in manner and form as is expressed in and by the act, entitled, 'An act to regulate trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes.'"

Several amendments were proposed and agreed to. At last Mr. VENABLE proposed one, which was, in substance, that persons should not be liable to the operation of the law who were in pursuit of Indians that had committed actual hostilities on the frontier.

Mr. SEDGWICK paid many compliments to Mr. VENABLE, as a sound lawyer, who certainly knew that, by the inherent rights of nature, every man was to pursue and punish those who had robbed him. This was implied in the bill, and was a part of the law of nature, so that there could be no use for its insertion.

Mr. VENABLE, in reply, declared that he was not so sound a lawyer as the gentleman supposed him to be. He was not so sound a lawyer as to discover that there was any such implication in the bill as the gentleman stated. Neither was he a sound enough lawyer to see, that, if his amendment was really implied in the bill, there could be any harm in having it expressed. At present he could discover no such implication. On the contrary, he saw very plainly, that, by the resolution as it now stood, a man whose family had been murdered or carried off by the savages, might, while pursuing them, be stopped and sent to jail. Mr. V., from the admission of Mr. SEDGWICK himself, insisted on the propriety of adopting his amendment.

Mr. HILLHOUSE objected to the permission of armed individuals crossing the line, upon any pretence whatever. What use was there for expending millions every year in defence of the frontier people, if they were to be at liberty to cross the Indian line as often as they pleased, and to do what was to all intents and purposes carrying on war? If they will fight, let us recall our forces and leave them to fight for themselves. Are they, for the stealing of a horse, or some such thing, to cross the line in armed bodies, and act just as they please? Mr. H. utterly denied the doctrine admitted by Mr. SEDGWICK, that a man was authorized to chastise by his own hand those who had injured him. Was he to be both judge and executioner in his own case? No such thing.

Mr. GREENUP said, that, in coming to Congress every year, he was obliged to pass over territories belonging to Indians, and he always thought it necessary to carry a gun. He did not see, by the resolution as it stood, why the military officers of the United States might not stop him, as well as other people.

Mr. MOORE objected to the clause altogether. It is usual for people on the frontiers to send out parties over the line to watch the Indians, and when they are coming to give notice, that the country may be prepared for their reception. Now, these people may be seized by your officers.

Mr. FINDLAY imagined it would be the best way to declare that there shall be no frontier. It had been said by Mr. HILLHOUSE that the United States might withdraw their forces, and leave the frontier settlers to defend themselves. Did he imagine that, as it is, they are not kept in a perpetual state of alarm, of exertion, and of danger? There has not been a harvest for many years past where the people have not been called off from their labors, and, to their very great loss, to protect the frontier. This resolution not to allow pursuit, would be inviting the Indians with a witness.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, that this amendment, in reality, destroyed all that had been done or intended. No military officer, after such an amendment, will run the risk of taking a man up. The prisoner has only to say, "I am in pursuit of Indians," and then he must be set at liberty; for, in the wilderness, no evidence can be had to contradict him. The amendment, therefore, was a coup de grace to the whole affair. Mr. S. said he was personally extremely hurt at the constant complaints of the inefficiency of the defence afforded on the frontier, which cost annually so much to Government.

Mr. BLOUNT thought that the best way would be, to let it be known that the whites were authorized to pursue the Indians into their own country, and then they would stand more in awe. He mentioned a circumstance that happened within memory, to prove how much the Indians feared a serious attack, and how well they remembered a serious chastisement. Mr. B. stated that some Indians had made an incursion, and were stealing cattle belonging to the army, at a block-house. One of them was most deservedly shot, and the soldier had his pay stopped.

Mr. HILLHOUSE said, the more that he thought of this amendment, the more he saw its mischievous consequences. It went to invert all the laws that had been made for the protection of the Indians; and, instead of being a bill to protect them from the whites, the resolutions would produce a bill to protect the whites from them.

Mr. SMILIE objected to Mr. SEDGWICK's having threatened that the army of the United States should be withdrawn from the frontiers. [He had made some other advances against that gentleman, to which Mr. SEDGWICK answered not loud enough to be heard; but at this last, he arose, and said that he would not sit still to hear himself thus quoted for affirmations of which he had never uttered a single word.]

Mr. FITZSIMONS really hoped that the House would not agree to this amendment. It would totally defeat all the effects proposed by the bill. It had been said, that if a man had his family murdered, and he was in pursuit of the murderers, he might be stopped by a military officer, and sent to jail. The answer was, that if the officer refused to join him in the pursuit, he would lose his commission. He should be sorry if those resolutions, which had cost so much time and labor to the House, were thus to be thrown away.

The amendment was, on a division, carried--yeas 36, nays 28. The committee then rose.

SATURDAY, February 28.

Indian Trading Houses.

It was moved that the House should resolve itself into a committee on the bill for establishing trading houses for the purpose of supplying the Indian nations within the territory of the United States. This was done accordingly, Mr. SHERBURNE in the chair.

Mr. GILES then moved to strike out the first section.

Mr. GOODHUE wished to move that the committee rise; to which Mr. GILES agreed. Mr. GOODHUE then said, that his reason for this motion was, the inattention of members to the business before them. To attempt going through the bill at present was a perfect farce. He was satisfied that the bill would never go through this session. He did not, for his own part, yet know whether it was proper or not.

Mr. PARKER said, that the bill had been long enough before the House for the gentleman from Massachusetts to have made himself acquainted with its contents and its merits. He vindicated the principle of the bill, as tending to conciliate the affections of a distressed and unhappy people, and as it might likewise prevent the expenses of a war with them. France, Britain, and Spain, had adopted this policy, and found the good effects of it. He considered the bill as of the utmost consequence, and, thinking so, he should use his utmost influence to get it passed. The expense proposed was not great, as the affair was only experimental.

Mr. MONTGOMERY was of the same opinion with the gentleman who spoke last. He thought that the Indians had common sense enough not to quit allies who supplied them with articles which they wanted, till we also made some effectual establishment of that kind. The member went on the same ground with the gentleman who spoke last.

Mr. BOUDINOT thought that the reason given by Mr. GOODHUE for moving that the committee should rise, viz: that gentlemen would not attend to their duty, was the worst imaginable. What did the House meet for at all? It was the duty of the Chair to compel them to mind their business. Mr. B. then referred to something which had been said by Mr. SWIFT, who had been up just before Mr. BOUDINOT. Mr. B. in reply to this gentleman, said, that he would not wish to press the bill this session if members did not think it proper. He was willing, if agreeable, to refer the matter for one year to the PRESIDENT. But there never would nor could be a complete peace till something of this kind was done. The PRESIDENT himself had told us as much.

Mr. GILES said, that the bill could not be got through this session. He was willing to take the question either in the first way that he had moved it, or in any other. This was a most improper time of the session to bring it in.

Mr. MURRAY hoped that the committee would seriously attend to the first clause in the bill, and would not rise. He felt the shortness of the time, but he was willing to devote to-morrow (Sunday) to this subject, and he trusted that the importance of it would give the employment a solemnity not inconsistent with the day. Without a bill to establish a well-guarded intercourse with the Indians, the frontier policy will be unsystematic and despicable. To complete the system, it appeared to him that three great objects are to be embraced: 1st. Force to protect the frontier from Indian invasion--for this the Military Establishment is made. 2d. A regulation, by law, that shall restrain the frontier people from predatory invasion into the Indian country, carrying law and settlement hand in hand. 3d. The establishment of trading houses under the influence of the two first parts of the system, for the purpose of conciliating the Indians by supplying their wants, and detaching their habits of trade and their affections from a foreign nation. With these three points embraced in one system, he had no doubt but their co-operation would produce the great object, peace on the frontier. Without the last, the other parts of the system would be totally inefficient.

Mr. HILLHOUSE said, that the House ought to begin at the right end of the subject, by reversing the vote which the committee passed yesterday, authorizing the frontier people to pass the line in pursuit of the Indians as often as they pleased. If this was allowed, it would be impossible ever to keep peace.

On a division, shall the committee now rise? it was determined in the affirmative--yeas 35, nays 31.

The question was then put by the SPEAKER, Shall the committee have leave to sit again? It passed in the affirmative--yeas 34, nays 33.

But it was presently remarked, that some gentlemen had risen both in the yeas and nays; others had been without the bar. The question was, therefore, taken over again, and determined in the negative--yeas 36, nays 41. The bill is, therefore, thrown out.

Indian Lands in Georgia.

The House proceeded to consider the resolution and amendments thereto, reported yesterday from the Committee of the whole House on the report of the committee to whom was referred a motion of the 25th instant, respecting such persons as shall be assembled or embodied in arms on any lands belonging to Indians out of the ordinary jurisdiction of any State, or of the territory of the United States south of the river Ohio: Whereupon,

The first resolution being read, in the words following, to wit:

"Resolved, That all persons who, unauthorized by law, and with hostile intent, may be found in arms on any lands allotted or secured to the Indians by treaties between the United States and any Indian tribes, shall, on conviction thereof, forfeit a sum not exceeding ---- dollars, and be imprisoned not exceeding ---- months."

And the amendment thereto, reported by the Committee of the whole House, to add to the end thereof the words, "unless it shall be in immediate pursuit of Indians, who shall have recently committed hostilities."

When the question was about to be taken on it, Mr. VENABLE rose and pointed out the difference of opinion between two gentlemen who were both opposed to his amendment. One of them (Mr. SEDGWICK) had maintained that, when individual Indians, unauthorized by the rest of their tribe, crossed the line and committed depredations, a settler was, by the law of nations, authorized to pursue them across the line and to retaliate, and that this was implied in the bill. Mr. HILLHOUSE had materially differed from him, and agreed with Mr. VENABLE, in supposing that the person so pursuing across the line was punishable by the resolution as it stood, without the amendment. He then reminded the House that this frontier line was, perhaps, fifteen hundred miles long. The Indians may come over any part of it, while the citizens of the United States are not to be allowed to cross it one mile in pursuit. Even a man in pursuit of savages who may have carried off his wife and children, may be stopped. The amendment he regarded as essential. Military officers may judge on the spot whether such persons whom they meet beyond the line, in pursuit of Indians, are within the sense of the act or not.

Mr. AMES denied that the resolution as it first stood took away the right of a man to pursue the Indians, in order to recover his wife and children. But the amendment of Mr. VENABLE went to legalize all those acts of violence and revenge, that, for a century past, have deluged the frontier with blood.

Mr. LYMAN vindicated the inhabitants of the frontier. If the Indians are so unfortunate as to be the dupes of other nations, (viz: the Spaniards and British,) that is not our fault. The frontier people, from time to time, have done every thing in their power to keep them in peace.

Mr. HILLHOUSE opposed the amendment.

Mr. MCDOWELL said, that weekly and daily murders were committed by the Creeks in the district of Mero and in the South-western Territory. Do the United States avenge these murders? No. Do they demand back the property carried off? No. Instead of any satisfaction to the people, their characters are abused on this floor. The frontier people know that their happiness consists in peace, and, therefore, cultivate it as much as they can. He took a general view of the subject, and explained the insignificance of the posts as at present held by the troops of the United States for any purpose of protection. He noticed the inveterate hatred of the Indians against the whites, and their innate thirst of blood.

Mr. MOORE went on the same grounds.

Mr. GILES did not like the harsh style assumed by some gentlemen in speaking of the frontier settlers. A hundred years hence these people would preponderate over this part of the Continent. He represented an Atlantic part of the Union, but, at the same time, he would carefully avoid any thing that might offend the Western people. The first settlers in this country were, when they first landed, frontier settlers. For his own part, he believed that the war between the whites and the Indians would be eternal. He said, that, from some intelligence received this day, there was reason to believe that a war with the Creeks might soon be expected.

Mr. WADSWORTH.--Gentlemen have a great disposition to husband our little time, and I need not mention their manner of doing it. He said that he was willing to grant protection to the frontiers, but not to give leave, as by the amendment proposed, for an eternal war. He thought it calculated to drive the gentlemen on each side of this question into such opposite extremes, that they would never meet again upon the subject. He was willing to grant any degree of protection, but nothing for conquest. He said that the ancestors of the people now in the Atlantic part of the country were once frontier people, and he believed them to have been neither worse nor better than the present settlers, who are in the same situation. We are told of murders and robberies committed by the Indians; but the accounts of some of the officers employed by Government vary a little from this, and give room to suspect that there may be some error on both sides. He did not believe that this amendment would pass; but, if it should do so, it would widen the difference of opinion in the House.

Mr. PAGE was for the amendment.

Mr. CARNES could not conceive the reason why all regulations made in this House were for Indians only, as if the whites were constantly the aggressors. He asked if the Creeks performed a single tittle of the treaty of New York, about which there had been so much parade? No. The only design of Indians in making a peace is to get presents, for these they always get. As soon as these are spent they commit a new set of murders, in the hopes of another treaty. Thus they always have gone on, and always will go on, from murders to treaties, and from treaties to murders. Mr. C. complained that a gentleman from Maryland (Mr. MURRAY) had some days ago called the frontier people semi-savages. He hoped that such an expression would never again be used in that House. As to the treaty of New York, he might be told that the Creeks restored a number of women and children. He knew that; but he also knew that, before they did so, the relations of those people were obliged to put their hands in their pockets and pay large sums for their redemption, as the prisoners would not have been delivered up in consequence of the treaty of New York. This bill, without the amendment of Mr. VENABLE, would be an encouragement to the savages to come over the line and murder with impunity.

Mr. SCOTT was entirely in favor of the amendment. If the resolution passes without the amendment houses will soon be smoking and blood running. He believed that the subject in question was beyond the reach of human wisdom to regulate. He thought that striking out the amendment would only encourage the Indians to come in a body across the line. This they were never afraid of doing. The only thing which they feared was a pursuit, and this was to be effectually prevented by striking out the amendment. Was there ever such a thing heard of before as that, when the savages have carried off a man's wife and children, he must not be at liberty to pursue them? It would be the most frightful thing imaginable for the House to pass a law declaring such a pursuit criminal. Mr. S. could figure a case where the farm of a settler might come close to the Indian line, and the Indian might stand on the other side of the line and shoot him, and his neighbors would not be at liberty to pursue the murderer. Mr. S. said, that in that part of the country where he resided (Washington county) nothing of this kind was to be feared, as the line was at a sufficient distance from the cultivated lands, but there were other places on the frontier of the United States where this might happen. He said that no Christian nation had a right to ask better terms than this amendment offered to the savages. Stay upon your own side of the line and you are safe, but, if you cross over to us, we shall cross over in pursuit of you. This was fair play. If the resolution passed without the amendment, Mr. S. said that the Indians would immediately encamp close on their side of the line, and lie in watch there for whole months together, till they found a safe opportunity of crossing.

Mr. MURRAY said, he would make a remark or two on the criticism of the gentleman from Georgia, who had felt affected by an expression of his a few days since, when he called some of the people of the frontier "semi-savages." He did so, and he felt the expression not inapplicable. He confined the import of this expression exclusively to those upon the frontier who lead an unstationary life--who press forward into the deeper wilderness, by the new waves of advancing population, and live the life of savages without their virtues. He begged leave to call the gentleman's attention to a declaration of his own, last session, to justify this expression, which he used more to designate a peculiar than a general character of the people in the region to which he applied it. The gentleman said, he did not value the lives of one hundred Indians as much as the life of one white man, or words to that extent. [This was in a debate just before the close of the last session. The words of Mr. CARNES were, "I would not give the life of one white man for that of fifty Indians."] Mr. MURRAY said, he had two points always in his view when the frontier was a subject in that House--protection to the frontier against the hostility of the Indians, and restraint upon the whites to prevent the occasions of war against the savages. He had given every testimony to the first by supporting every measure for their defence; that he represented a district perfectly beyond the danger of the Indians, was proof that he was actuated in his votes for appropriation and force by no other motive than that which belonged to every man there who supported the great principle of Government, that the whole must protect the parts. He wished to see such a system established, combining these two points, as would give complete protection against the Indians, and yet restrain the whites from violating peace. He wished to see the day when the arms of the Government might, without a crime, strike a whole tribe, if that tribe or its members waged war on the frontiers. But, to do this, it was necessary to place our relative situation so as that justice might be secured. He wished to adopt a regulation like the present, to prevent our fellow-citizens from the gratification of private revenge, the source from whence so much blood is shed. In order to justify exemplary punishment on Indian tribes, you must first be in a situation to restrain the whites from doing injustice to them. You must do what all nations have done, when, from the general or local state of civilization, private war disturbs public tranquillity--you must restrain the right of private war, by placing the power of vengeance out of the reach of individuals, and in the hands of Government. Nor did this idea go at all to restrain that inalienable right of resistance against imminent danger, which was sanctioned by the law of nature. The picture drawn by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. SCOTT,) with his accustomed ability and force, was certainly an interesting one--were an encampment of Indians to be heard in the woods near a settlement, after any evidence of hostility, he did not doubt but the neighbors would be perfectly justifiable in changing the scene of blood from the cottage to the camp--if the amendment which actually arms all the passions of revenge with the rights of law, be rejected, you will attain one of the great objects of frontier policy--the ability to restrain the right of private war, from which public war arises as a consequence. The Government will, when this ability to restrain is complete, become responsible for the protection of the whites against the savages. Until that is accomplished, he did not believe Government could, either in justice or policy, expend treasure or use force, when uncertain of the justice of the cause. He therefore hoped that the amendment would be rejected.

Mr. FINDLAY was for the amendment, and mentioned several examples to prove the cruelty and perfidy of the Indians.

The amendment itself was in these words: "Unless it shall be in immediate pursuit of the Indians who have recently committed hostilities."

Mr. MADISON did not think the question explicit; he therefore proposed another, which was to prevent the pursuers from coming within a certain number of miles of an Indian town. He was extremely doubtful whether his amendment or any other would effectually answer the end proposed. He was convinced that no law of any kind would be able to hinder people from crossing the line in pursuit of Indians, who might have carried off their families.

Mr. HARPER said, that however little time the House had to spare, and however long the discussion might have been, he could not help trespassing on their patience for a short time to deliver his sentiments, as he thought himself tolerably acquainted with the subject. He expressly denied that the Indians ever committed any murder without previous provocation. The process is shortly this: An Indian crosses the line and steals a horse. And as long as Indians exist they will always steal horses. The man to whom the horse belonged collects as many of his neighbors as he thinks sufficient, pursues the Indian, and, not contented with recovering his horse, he kills the thief. The Indians, who have no such sacred ideas of property, immediately come over the line, and in revenge murder a number of innocent people. Indian murders are not unprovoked. They are not of that stamp. Mr. H. considered the amendment of Mr. VENABLE as a source of endless confusion. Any man, if it passed, might cross the Indian line as often as he thought proper, and say that he was in pursuit of Indians with prisoners. I undertake, (said he,) if you will give me a hundred dollars, to go to the frontier and get a witness who will come into a Court of Justice and swear that on such a day ten Indians came over the line in arms. Mr. H. said he was personally acquainted with the frontiers. He had a high respect for the inhabitants, there were many very worthy people among them; but likewise many others of a very different kind. This amendment will set open a door to all sorts of fraud and mischief. Mr. H. honored the sentiments of patriotism that gave rise to it, but he could not possibly agree to the propriety of its insertion.

Mr. WHITE, the member from the South-western Territory, said, that he had to complain of the slaughter of near four hundred citizens under the auspices of your Government. He felt himself much affected, and as to the doctrine of Indian killing, only in retaliation, he denied it altogether. The love of blood was hereditary in them. When the gentleman says that with a hundred dollars in his pocket, he can find ten men on the frontiers--[Mr. HARPER explained, that he only said he could find a witness.] Well, (said Mr. W.) if the gentleman did not mean a reflection on the frontiers, he meant nothing at all. I know not how well the gentleman may be practised in the arts of subornation, but I myself know of no such man. [Mr. HARPER.--I expected the gentleman would confine himself to a decent answer.] Mr. W. proceeded to observe that no man acquainted with the frontiers would have made any such assertion as the gentleman had done. He was likewise extremely surprised at the gentleman from Maryland, for having persisted in affirming that many of the frontier people were semi-savages.

The yeas and nays were now taken on the amendment, which was lost by a majority of 7--yeas 39, nays 46, as follows:

YEAS.--James Armstrong, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, William J. Dawson, George Dent, Samuel Dexter, Gabriel Duvall, Benjamin Edwards, William Findlay, Christopher Greenup, William B. Grove, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison, John Heath, William Irvine, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, Joseph Mcdowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Peter Muhlenberg, Joseph Neville, Anthony New, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Thomas Sprigg, Thos. Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.

NAYS.--Fisher Ames, John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Lambert Cadwalader, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Henry Dearborn, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Robert Goodloe Harper, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Samuel Holten, John Hunter, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, Amasa Learned, James Madison, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, Andrew Pickens, Theodore Sedgwick, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, Wm. Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, John Watts, Benjamin Williams, and Paine Wingate.

Mr. GILES, who had been in the House during the whole debate, had gone out just before the question was put, and returning immediately after the names had been called, asked leave to vote. The rule of the House was read by the SPEAKER, which is that no member shall vote who was not present at putting of the question. Mr. G., on this account, was not allowed a vote.

Mr. CARNES then moved to amend the said resolution by adding to the end thereof the following words:

"Unless it shall be in continuation of a pursuit to a distance not exceeding ---- miles beyond the line of the particular Indians who shall have recently committed murder, or may be carrying off captives or plunder."

It was resolved in the affirmative.

The said resolution, as amended, was then again read, and agreed to by the House, as follows:

Resolved, That all persons who, unauthorized by law, and with hostile intent, may be found in arms on any lands allotted or secured to the Indians by treaties between the United States and any Indian tribes, shall, on conviction thereof, forfeit a sum not exceeding ---- dollars, and be imprisoned not exceeding ---- months, unless it shall be in continuation of a pursuit to a distance not exceeding ---- miles beyond the line of the particular Indians who shall have recently committed murder, or may be carrying off captives or plunder.

The second resolution being again read, and amended, was, on the question put thereupon, agreed to by the House, as follows:

Resolved, That it shall be lawful for the military force of the United States to apprehend every person or persons found in arms as aforesaid, and him or them to convey to the civil authority of the United States, within some one of the States, who shall, by such authority, be secured to be tried in manner and form as is provided in and by the act entitled, "An act to regulate trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes:" Provided, that no person shall be confined after his arrest, and before his removal, more than ---- days.

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolutions, and that Mr. SEDGWICK, Mr. MADISON, and Mr. HILLHOUSE, do prepare, and bring in the same.

TUESDAY, March 3.

Adjournment.

Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate to inform them that this House, having completed the business before them, are now about to adjourn without day; and that the Clerk of this House do go with the said message.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have appointed a committee, on their part, jointly, with such committee as may be appointed on the part of this House, to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and inform him that Congress is ready to adjourn without day, unless he may have any further communications to make to them.

The House proceeded to consider the said message: Whereupon,

Resolved, That this House doth agree to the resolution of the Senate for the appointment of a joint committee of the two Houses, to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and inform him of the intended recess of Congress; and that Mr. BOUDINOT, Mr. SEDGWICK, and Mr. TRUMBULL, be of the committee appointed on the part of this House.

On a motion made and seconded,

"That the thanks of this House be presented to Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, in testimony of their approbation of his conduct in discharging the arduous and important duties assigned him while in the chair:"

It was resolved unanimously: Whereupon, Mr. SPEAKER made his acknowledgments to the House in manner following:

"GENTLEMEN: I feel myself highly honored by this distinguished mark of your approbation of my conduct in the station you were pleased to assign unto me; and although I am conscious that my feeble efforts do not merit so precious a reward, yet permit me to assure you that it has made a lasting impression on my mind, and I shall ever esteem it with the most unfeigned satisfaction.

"Gentlemen, I sincerely thank you; may every happiness attend you; may you long continue to enjoy the confidence of your fellow-citizens; and may you meet with their just applause of having deserved well of your country."

Mr. BOUDINOT, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and inform him of the intended recess of Congress, reported that the committee had performed that service, and that the PRESIDENT signified to them that he had no further communication to make during the present session: Whereupon, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House sine die.

FOURTH CONGRESS.--FIRST SESSION.

HELD IN THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, DECEMBER 7, 1795.

LIST OF MEMBERS.

SENATORS.

New Hampshire.--John Langdon, S. Livermore.

Vermont.--Elijah Paine, Moses Robinson.

Massachusetts.--George Cabot, Caleb Strong.

Rhode Island.--William Bradford, Theodore Foster.

Connecticut.--Oliver Ellsworth, Jonathan Trumbull.

New York.--Aaron Burr, Rufus King.

New Jersey.--F. Frelinghuysen, John Rutherford.

Pennsylvania.--William Bingham, James Ross.

Delaware.--Henry Latimer, John Vining.

Maryland.--John Henry, Richard Potts.

Virginia.--Stevens T. Mason, Henry Tazewell.

North Carolina.--Timothy Bloodworth, Alexander Martin.

South Carolina.--Pierce Butler, Jacob Read.

Georgia.--James Gunn, George Walton.

Kentucky.--John Brown, Humphrey Marshall.

REPRESENTATIVES.

New Hampshire.--Abiel Foster, Nicholas Gilman, J. S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, Paine Wingate.

Vermont.--Daniel Buck, Israel Smith.

Massachusetts.--Fisher Ames, Theop. Bradbury, Henry Dearborn, Dwight Foster, Nathaniel Freeman, Benjamin Goodhue, George Leonard, Samuel Lyman, William Lyman, John Read, T. Sedgwick, George Thatcher, Joseph B. Varnum, P. Wadsworth.

Rhode Island.--Benjamin Bourne, Francis Malbone.

Connecticut.--Joshua Coit, C. Goodrich, Roger Griswold, James Hillhouse, Nathaniel Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Uriah Tracy.

New York.--Theodorus Bailey, William Cooper, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, John Hathorn, J. N. Havens, E. Livingston, John E. Van Allen, Philip Van Cortlandt, John Williams.

New Jersey.--Jonathan Dayton, Thomas Henderson, Aaron Kitchell, Isaac Smith, Mark Thompson.

Pennsylvania.--David Bard, George Ege, William Findlay, Albert Gallatin, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, John W. Kittera, Samuel Maclay, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, John Richards, Samuel Sitgreaves, John Swanwick, Richard Thomas.

Delaware.--John Paton.

Maryland.--Gabriel Christie, Jeremiah Crabb, George Dent, Gabriel Duvall, William Hindman, Samuel Smith, Thomas Sprigg, William Vans Murray.

Virginia.--Richard Brent, Samuel J. Cabell, Thomas Claiborne, John Clopton, Isaac Coles, William B. Giles, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison, John Heath, John George Jackson, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John Nicholas, John Page, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, A. B. Venable.

North Carolina.--Thomas Blount, Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges, Jesse Franklin, James Gillespie, William B. Grove, James Holland, Matthew Locke, Nathaniel Macon, Absalom Tatom.

South Carolina.--Lemuel Benton, Samuel Earle, Wade Hampton, R. G. Harper, William Smith, Richard Winn.

Georgia.--A. Baldwin, John Milledge.

Tennessee.--Andrew Jackson.

Kentucky.--Christopher Greenup.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.

MONDAY, December 7, 1795.

The following Senators appeared, and took their seats:

JOHN LANGDON and SAMUEL LIVERMORE, from New Hampshire.

CALEB STRONG and GEORGE CABOT, from Massachusetts.

THEODORE FOSTER, from Rhode Island.

OLIVER ELLSWORTH and JONATHAN TRUMBULL, from Connecticut.

MOSES ROBINSON, from Vermont.

RUFUS KING, from New York.

JAMES ROSS and WILLIAM BINGHAM, from Pennsylvania.

HENRY LATIMER, from Delaware.

HENRY TAZEWELL and STEVENS T. MASON, from Virginia.

ALEXANDER MARTIN and TIMOTHY BLOODWORTH, from North Carolina.

PIERCE BUTLER and JACOB READ, from South Carolina.

The VICE PRESIDENT being absent, the Senate proceeded to the election of a PRESIDENT pro tempore, as the constitution provides, and HENRY TAZEWELL was duly elected.

Ordered, That the Secretary wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and acquaint him that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and that, in the absence of the VICE PRESIDENT, they have elected HENRY TAZEWELL President pro tempore.

Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and ready to proceed to business; and that, in the absence of the VICE PRESIDENT, they have elected HENRY TAZEWELL President pro tempore.

Ordered, That Messrs. READ and CABOT be a joint committee on the part of the Senate, together with such committee as the House of Representatives may appoint on their part, to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications that he may be pleased to make to them.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that a quorum of the House is assembled; that they have elected JONATHAN DAYTON their Speaker; and that they have concurred in the appointment of a joint committee to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and acquaint him that the two Houses of Congress are assembled, and are ready to receive any communications that he may be pleased to lay before them.

Mr. READ, from the joint committee appointed for that purpose, reported that they had waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and had notified him that a quorum of the two Houses of Congress were assembled; and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES acquainted the committee that he would meet the two Houses in the Representatives' Chamber at 12 o'clock to-morrow.

TUESDAY, December 8.

HUMPHREY MARSHALL, from the State of Kentucky, attended.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House are now ready to meet the Senate in the Chamber of that House, to receive such communications as the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES shall be pleased to make to them.

Whereupon, the Senate repaired to the Chamber of the House of Representatives for the purpose above expressed.

The Senate then returned to their own Chamber, and a copy of the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to both Houses of Congress was read, as follows:

Fellow-Citizens of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:

I trust I do not deceive myself, while I indulge the persuasion that I have never met you at any period, when, more than at the present, the situation of our public affairs has afforded just cause for mutual congratulation, and for inviting you to join with me in profound gratitude to the Author of all good for the numerous and extraordinary blessings we enjoy.

The termination of the long, expensive, and distressing war in which we have been engaged with certain Indians north-west of the Ohio, is placed in the option of the United States, by a treaty which the commander of our army has concluded, provisionally, with the hostile tribes in that region.

In the adjustment of the terms, the satisfaction of the Indians was deemed an object worthy no less of the policy than of the liberality of the United States, as the necessary basis of durable tranquillity. The object, it is believed, has been fully attained. The articles agreed upon will immediately be laid before the Senate, for their consideration.

Contemplating the internal situation, as well as the external relations, of the United States, we discover equal cause for contentment and satisfaction. While many of the nations of Europe, with their American dependencies, have been involved in a contest unusually bloody, exhausting, and calamitous; in which the evils of foreign war have been aggravated by domestic convulsions and insurrection; in which many of the arts most useful to society have been exposed to discouragement and decay; in which scarcity of subsistence has embittered other sufferings; while even the anticipations of a return of the blessings of peace and repose are alloyed by the sense of heavy and accumulating burdens which press upon all the departments of industry, and threaten to clog the future springs of Government; our favored country, happy in a striking contrast, has enjoyed general tranquillity--a tranquillity the more satisfactory, because maintained at the expense of no duty. Faithful to ourselves, we have violated no obligation to others. Our agriculture, commerce, and manufactures, prosper beyond former example; the molestations of our trade (to prevent a continuance of which, however, very pointed remonstrances have been made) being overbalanced by the aggregate benefits which it derives from a neutral position. Our population advances with a celerity which, exceeding the most sanguine calculations, proportionally augments our strength and resources, and guarantees our future security. Every part of the Union displays indications of rapid and various improvement; and with burdens so light as scarcely to be perceived; with resources fully adequate to our present exigencies; with Governments founded on the genuine principles of rational liberty; and with mild and wholesome laws--is it too much to say, that our country exhibits a spectacle of national happiness never surpassed, if ever before equalled?

Gentlemen:

Among the objects which will claim your attention in the course of the session, a review of our Military Establishment is not the least important. It is called for by the events which have changed, and may be expected still further to change, the relative situation of our frontiers. In this review, you will doubtless allow due weight to the considerations that the questions between us and certain foreign powers are not yet finally adjusted; that the war in Europe is not yet terminated; and that our Western posts, when recovered, will demand provision for garrisoning and securing them. A statement of our present military force will be laid before you by the Department of War.

With the review of our army establishment is naturally connected that of the militia. It will merit inquiry, what imperfections in the existing plan further experience may have unfolded. The subject is of so much moment, in my estimation, as to excite a constant solicitude that the consideration of it may be renewed until the greatest attainable perfection shall be accomplished. Time is wearing away some advantages for forwarding the object, while none better deserves the persevering attention of the public councils.

While we indulge the satisfaction which the actual condition of our Western borders so well authorizes, it is necessary that we should not lose sight of an important truth, which continually receives new confirmations, namely: that the provisions heretofore made with a view to the protection of the Indians from the violences of the lawless part of our frontier inhabitants are insufficient. It is demonstrated that these violences can now be perpetrated with impunity; and it can need no argument to prove, that, unless the murdering of Indians can be restrained by bringing the murderers to condign punishment, all the exertions of the Government to prevent destructive retaliations by the Indians will prove fruitless, and all our present agreeable prospects illusory. The frequent destruction of innocent women and children, who are chiefly the victims of retaliation, must continue to shock humanity, and an enormous expense to drain the Treasury of the Union.

To enforce upon the Indians the observance of justice, it is indispensable that there shall be competent means of rendering justice to them. If these means can be devised by the wisdom of Congress, and especially if there can be added an adequate provision for supplying the necessities of the Indians, on reasonable terms--a measure, the mention of which I the more readily repeat, as in all the conferences with them they urge it with solicitude--I should not hesitate to entertain a strong hope of rendering our tranquillity permanent. I add, with pleasure, that the probability even of their civilization is not diminished by the experiments which have been thus far made under the auspices of Government. The accomplishment of this work, if practicable, will reflect undecaying lustre on our national character, and administer the most grateful consolations that virtuous minds can know.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

The state of our revenue, with the sums which have been borrowed and reimbursed pursuant to different acts of Congress, will be submitted from the proper Department, together with an estimate of the appropriations necessary to be made for the service of the ensuing year.

Whether measures may not be advisable to re-enforce the provision for the redemption of the public debt, will naturally engage your examination. Congress have demonstrated their sense to be, and it were superfluous to repeat mine, that whatsoever will tend to accelerate the honorable extinction of our public debt, accords as much with the true interest of our country as with the general sense of our constituents.

_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_

The statements which will be laid before you relative to the Mint will show the situation of that institution, and the necessity of some further Legislative provisions for carrying the business of it more completely into effect, and for checking abuses which appear to be arising in particular quarters.

The progress of providing materials for the frigates, and in building them; the state of the fortifications of our harbors; the measures which have been pursued for obtaining proper sites for arsenals, and for replenishing our magazines with military stores; and the steps which have been taken towards the execution of the law for opening a trade with the Indians--will likewise be presented for the information of Congress.

Temperate discussion of the important subjects which may arise in the course of the session, and mutual forbearance where there is a difference of opinion, are too obvious and necessary for the peace, happiness, and welfare of our country, to need any recommendation of mine.

G. WASHINGTON.

UNITED STATES, December 8, 1795.

Ordered, That Messrs. KING, ELLSWORTH, and CABOT, be a committee to report the draft of an Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech this day to both Houses of Congress.

WEDNESDAY, December 9.

The VICE PRESIDENT of the United States attended.

The following motion was made by Mr. MARTIN:

"Resolved, That, in conformity to a resolution of the Senate of the United States, passed the 20th day of February, 1794, the gallery of the Senate Chamber be permitted to be opened every morning, subject to the restrictions therein mentioned, a suitable gallery having been erected and provided in the Senate Chamber, in the late recess of Congress, for that purpose."

And, the motion being amended, it was

Resolved, That, in conformity to a resolution of the Senate of the United States, passed the 20th day of February, 1794, the gallery of the Senate Chamber be permitted to be opened every morning, subject to the restrictions in said resolution mentioned.

THURSDAY, December 10.

JOHN BROWN, from the State of Kentucky, and FREDERICK FRELINGHUYSEN, from the State of New Jersey, severally attended.

Mr. KING, from the committee appointed for that purpose, reported the draft of an Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, at the opening of the session, which was read, and ordered to lie for consideration until to-morrow.

FRIDAY, December 11.

ELIJAH PAINE, from the State of Vermont, attended.

Address to the President.

The Senate took into consideration the report made by the committee, of an Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, at the opening of the session, which is as follows:

SIR: It is with peculiar satisfaction that we are informed by your Speech to the two Houses of Congress, that the long and expensive war in which we have been engaged with the Indians north-west of the Ohio is in a situation to be finally terminated; and, though we view with concern the danger of an interruption of the peace so recently confirmed with the Creeks, we indulge the hope, that the measures that you have adopted to prevent the same, if followed by those Legislative provisions that justice and humanity equally demand, will succeed in laying the foundation of a lasting peace with the Indian tribes on the Southern as well as on the Western frontiers.

The confirmation of our Treaty with Morocco, and the adjustment of a Treaty of Peace with Algiers, in consequence of which our captive fellow-citizens shall be delivered from slavery, are events that will prove no less interesting to the public humanity than they will be important in extending and securing the navigation and commerce of our country.

As a just and equitable conclusion of our depending negotiations with Spain will essentially advance the interest of both nations, and thereby cherish and confirm the good understanding and friendship which we have at all times desired to maintain, it will afford us real pleasure to receive an early confirmation of our expectations on this subject.

The interesting prospect of our affairs, with regard to the foreign powers between whom and the United States controversies have subsisted, is not more satisfactory than the review of our internal situation: if from the former we derive an expectation of the extinguishment of all the causes of external discord that have heretofore endangered our tranquillity, and on terms consistent with our national honor and safety, in the latter we discover those numerous and wide-spread tokens of prosperity which, in so peculiar a manner, distinguish our happy country.

Circumstances thus every way auspicious demand our gratitude, and sincere acknowledgments to Almighty God, and require that we should unite our efforts in imitation of your enlightened, firm, and persevering example, to establish and preserve the peace, freedom, and prosperity of our country.

The objects which you have recommended to the notice of the Legislature will, in the course of the session, receive our careful attention, and, with a true zeal for the public welfare, we shall cheerfully co-operate in every measure that shall appear to us best calculated to promote the same.

JOHN ADAMS,

_Vice President of the United States, and President of the Senate._

The Address was taken up by paragraphs.

The fourth and fifth paragraphs were moved to be struck out by Mr. MASON.[60]

Mr. MASON observed, that he had hoped nothing contained in the Address reported as an answer to the PRESIDENT's Speech, would have been such as to force the Senate to precipitate decisions. The two clauses he objected to disappointed him in that hope. They were calculated to bring again into view the important subject which occupied the Senate during their June session. This he conceived could answer no good purpose; the minority on that occasion were not now to be expected to recede from the opinions they then held, and they could not therefore join in the indirect self-approbation which the majority appeared to wish for, and which was most certainly involved in the two clauses which he should hope would be struck out. If his motion were agreed to, the remainder of the Address would, in his opinion, stand unexceptionable. He did not see, for his part, that our situation was every way auspicious. Notwithstanding the treaty, our trade is grievously molested.

Mr. KING observed, that the principal features observable in the answer reported to the PRESIDENT's Address, were to keep up that harmony of intercourse which ought to subsist between the Legislature and the PRESIDENT, and to express confidence in the undiminished firmness and love of country which always characterize our chief Executive Magistrate. He objected to striking out especially the first clause, because founded on undeniable truth. It only declares that our prospects, as to our external relations, are not more satisfactory than a review of our internal situation would prove. Was not this representation true, he asked; could it be controverted? This clause, he contended, contained nothing reasonably objectionable; it did not say as much as the second, to which only most of the objections of the member up before him applied, an answer to which he should defer, expecting that a question would be put on each in order.

The Chair requested that the motion should be reduced to writing. Mr. MASON accordingly reduced it to writing, and it went to striking out both clauses at once.

Mr. MASON agreed most cordially that the situation of our external relations were not more a cause of joy than our situation at home. But the obvious meaning of the clause, he conceived, was an indirect approval of our situation relative to external concerns; and to this he could not give his assent, as he did not consider their aspect as prosperous or auspicious.

Mr. BUTLER said, that when the committee was appointed to draft an answer, he hoped they would have used such general terms as to have secured a unanimous vote. He was willing to give the Chief Magistrate such an answer as respect to his station entitled him to, but not such a one as would do violence to his regard for the constitution and his duty to his constituents. He could not approve of long and detailed answers, however unexceptionable the Speech might be in matter, and however respectable the character might be from whom it came. He had hoped, from the peculiar situation of the country, and of the Senate, that nothing would have been brought forward in the answer, on the subject which agitated the June Executive session, calculated to wound the feelings of members. He had been disappointed; it was evident that some members of the Senate could not give their voice in favor of the Address in its present shape, without involving themselves in the most palpable inconsistency.

He had long since, for his own part, declared himself against every article of the treaty, because in no instance is it bottomed on reciprocity, the only honorable basis. After this declaration, how could he, or those who coincided in opinion with him, agree to the present Address without involving themselves in the most palpable inconsistency?

The sentence objected to, notwithstanding the explanation of the gentleman from New York, appeared to him so worded as to lead the citizens at large to believe that the spoliations on our commerce were drawing to a fortunate close. This was not, he conceived, warranted by the existing state of things. Indeed, he protested, he knew no more of the actual situation of the treaty negotiation than the remotest farmer in the Union; could he then declare, he asked, that it was drawing to a happy close? Indeed, from the latest information received, far from our situation having been ameliorated by the negotiations of our Executive, he conceived our trade as much in jeopardy as ever.

As to the internal prosperity, he owned there was some cause for congratulation; but even in this his conviction could not carry him as far as the clauses in the Address seemed to go. In a pecuniary point of view, the country had made a visible progress; but he saw in it no basis of permanent prosperity. There were no circumstances attendant on it that gave a fair hope that the prosperity would be permanent. The chief cause of our temporary pecuniary prosperity is the war in Europe, which occasions the high prices our produce at present commands; when that is terminated, those advantageous prices will of course fall.

Mr. B. now came to speak of the second objectional clause. He regretted whenever a question was brought forward that involved personality in the most indirect manner. He wished always to speak to subjects unconnected with men; but the wording of the clause was unfortunately such as to render allusion to official character unavoidable. He objected principally to the epithet firm, introduced into the latter clause, as applied to the Supreme Executive. Why firmness? he asked. To what? or to whom? Is it the manly demand of restitution made of Great Britain for her accumulated injuries that called forth the praise? for his own part he could discern no firmness there. Is it for the undaunted and energetic countenance of the cause of France, in her struggle for freeing herself from despotic shackles? He saw no firmness displayed on that occasion. Where then is it to be found? Was it in the opposition to the minority of the Senate and the general voice of the people against the treaty that that firmness was displayed? If it is that firmness in opposing the will of the people, which is intended to be extolled, the vote shall never, said Mr. B., leave the walls of the Senate with my approbation.

Mr. READ said, he was not in the habit of giving a silent vote, and, as many of his constituents were adverse to the instrument to which he had given his assent, he thought this a fit opportunity to say something on the subject.

Gentlemen on the other side had spoken of their feelings; did they suppose, he asked, that those who were in the majority had not feelings? Also, gentlemen declared they would not recede from their former determinations; did they expect that the majority would recede?

He had, he said, taken the question of the treaty in all its aspects, and considered it maturely, and though he lamented that he differed in opinion on that subject with his colleague, and a portion of the people of his State, he nevertheless remained convinced that the ratification of it was advisable: it rescued the country from war and its desolating horrors.

After reading that part of the PRESIDENT's Speech to which the clauses objected to were an echo, he asked, whether any one could say, under the conviction that the measures of Government had prevented a war, that our view of foreign relations was not consolatory? On all hands, he observed, the idea of a war was deprecated; both sides of the House wished to avoid it; then is it not a consolatory reflection to all that its horrors have been averted? Is there a man who does not believe that, had the treaty not been ratified, we should have had war? If the country had been plunged into a war, would it be as flourishing as it is?

The trifling vexations our commerce has sustained are not to compare to the evils of hostility. What good end could have been answered by a war? The Address, in the part under discussion, says no more than that we rejoice at the prospect that the blessings of peace will be preserved; and does not this expectation exist?

Great Britain, in the plenitude of her power, had availed herself of the right she had under the law of nations, of seizing enemies' goods in neutral vessels; but has allowed compensation to some Americans, and a system of mild measures on our part is the best security for further.

But the Senate and the PRESIDENT are the constitutional treaty-making powers. If mistaken in their decisions, they cannot be accused of having been misled by sudden and immatured impressions. He should conceive himself unfit to fill a chair in the Senate, if he suffered himself to be carried away by such impressions. The people could not, in their town meetings, deprived of proper information, possibly form an opinion that deserved weight, and it was the duty of the Executive not to be shaken in their determination by tumultuous proceedings from without. Upon this ground he much approved the PRESIDENT's conduct, and thought it entitled to the epithet, firm.

In local questions, affecting none but the interest of his constituents, he should attend to their voice, but on great national points, he did not consider himself as a Representative from South Carolina, but as a Senator for the Union. In questions of this last kind, even if the wishes of his constituents were unequivocally made known to him, he should not conceive himself bound to sacrifice his opinions to theirs. He viewed the PRESIDENT as standing in this situation, and though he might hear the opinions of the people from every part of the United States, he should not sacrifice to them his own conviction; in this line of conduct he has shown his firmness, and deserves to be complimented for it by the Senate.

Mr. ELLSWORTH was opposed to striking out. The clause records a fact, and if struck out, the Senate deny it. The PRESIDENT asserts it; in the Address reported, the Senate assent; a motion is made to strike out; is it because the truth of it is doubted? It cannot be called an unimportant fact, therefore its omission will not be imputed to oversight. The latter part of the clause expresses our gratitude to Almighty God. Will the Senate refuse to make an acknowledgment of that kind? Do they not admit that He is the source of all good, and can they refuse to acknowledge it? And if so, is it possible that, in admitting the fact and expressing the sentiment, which so naturally flows from it, the Senate should wound the feelings of any friend to his country?

The truth of the fact is as clear as that the sun now shines; the sentiment is unexceptionable; he, therefore, recommended to his friend the mover, not to insist upon striking out merely, but that he should vary the motion, and propose a substitute.

To bring the mind to the point with precision, it was necessary to attend to the wording of the clause. He read it. As to the signification of that part which relates to our foreign concerns, he did not consider it as hypothetical, but a positive declaration of a conviction that their situation is satisfactory, and on that ground he wished to meet the question.

The clause objected to expresses an expectation that the causes of external disagreement which have unhappily existed, will be peaceably done away. He said he had that expectation; many have it not. Those who have it not will negative the clause; those who have it will vote in its favor; the result will be the sense of a majority; the Senate could not be expected, more than on other occasions, to be unanimous; if the declarations contained in those clauses are supported, they will be considered as the sense of the majority of the Senate; others may dissent; but because unanimity could not be obtained, it was no reason why the majority should give a virtual negative to the declaration which they conceived founded on truth.

Mr. TAZEWELL said, the discussion had taken a turn different from that which he expected when he heard the motion. He understood the motion at the time it was made, and still so understood it, as not intending to question the propriety of any thing which was contained in the PRESIDENT's communication to both Houses of Congress. But from what had been said, (by Mr. READ, of South Carolina,) that part of the answer to the PRESIDENT's communication which had given rise to the motion, was intended to have a further operation than he originally believed. He asked what had given rise to the practice of returning an answer of any kind to the PRESIDENT's communication to Congress in the form of an Address? There was nothing, he said, in the constitution, or in any of the fundamental rules of the Federal Government, which required that ceremony from either branch of the Congress. The practice was but an imitation of the ceremonies used upon like occasions in other countries, and was neither required by the constitution, nor authorized by the principles upon which our Government was erected. But having obtained, he did not intend now to disturb it. To allow the utmost latitude to the principle which had begotten the practice, it could only tolerate the ceremony as a compliment to the Chief Magistrate. It could not be permitted to arrest all opinions previous to regular discussions, nor to operate as a means of pledging members to the pursuit of a particular course, which subsequent and more full inquiries might show to be extremely improper. Every answer, therefore, to the PRESIDENT's communication ought to be drawn in terms extremely general, neither seducing the PRESIDENT into a belief that this House would pursue a general recommendation into points not at first contemplated by them, nor pledge themselves to the world that that state of things was just, which time had not permitted them thoroughly to examine. The clauses now under consideration had, at least in one instance, deviated from this principle. They declare to the world, "That the interesting prospect of our affairs with regard to the foreign powers, between whom and the United States controversies have subsisted, is not more satisfactory than the review of our internal situation." The communications from the PRESIDENT have not uttered so bold a sentiment, nor is there any thing in those communications that justifies the assertion of this fact. Placing the treaty with Great Britain out of the question, which seems to have been the uppermost consideration when this sentence was penned, the seizure of our provision vessels since the signature of that treaty, and the unwarrantable imprisonment of our seamen, are acts which cloud our prosperity and happiness. The minds of the Americans must be brought to consider these things as trivial incidents in our political affairs, before the sentence under consideration can be approved. He said he must, therefore, vote for the motion to strike out the two clauses of the answer, in order that some more fit expressions might then be introduced to succeed them. He hoped the answer might be couched in terms just and delicate towards the PRESIDENT, without wounding the feelings of any Senator; and he believed both might be done without any difficulty, after the two clauses were expunged.

After some further observations from Messrs. MASON, BUTLER, and BLOODWORTH, in which the latter expressed the opinion that he did conceive the terms of our peace with Great Britain consistent with the dignity and honor of the United States, the question was put, and decided for striking out--ayes 8, noes 14.

On a further attempt to amend one of the clauses some conversation took place more remarkable for ingenuity than interesting for solidity, being chiefly a debate upon words. The Senate divided on it--7 to 15.

On the question, of agreeing to the Address, it was carried--14 to 8, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bingham, Cabot, Ellsworth, Foster, Frelinghuysen, King, Latimer, Livermore, Marshall, Paine, Read, Ross, Strong, and Trumbull.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Butler, Langdon, Martin, Mason, Robinson, and Tazewell.

Ordered, That the committee who prepared the Address wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and desire him to acquaint the Senate at what time and place it will be most convenient for him that it should be presented.

Mr. KING reported, from the committee, that they had waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and that he would receive the Address of the Senate to-morrow at 12 o'clock. Whereupon, resolved, that the Senate will, to-morrow at 12 o'clock, wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES accordingly.

SATURDAY, December 12.

Agreeably to the resolution of yesterday, the Senate waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and the VICE PRESIDENT, in their name, presented the Address then agreed to.

To which the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES was pleased to make the following reply:

GENTLEMEN: With real pleasure I receive your Address, recognizing the prosperous situation of our public affairs, and giving assurances of your careful attention to the objects demanding Legislative consideration; and that, with a true zeal for the public welfare, you will cheerfully co-operate in every measure which shall appear to you best calculated to promote the same.

But I derive peculiar satisfaction from your concurrence with me in the expressions of gratitude to Almighty God, which a review of the auspicious circumstances that distinguish our happy country have excited; and I trust the sincerity of our acknowledgments will be evinced by a union of efforts to establish and preserve its peace, freedom, and prosperity.

G. WASHINGTON.

The Senate returned to their own Chamber, and soon after adjourned.

MONDAY, December 14.

JOHN RUTHERFORD, from New Jersey, attended.

TUESDAY, December 15.

AARON BURR, from New York, and JOHN VINING, from Delaware, severally attended.

WEDNESDAY, December 16.

WILLIAM BRADFORD, from Rhode Island, attended.

FRIDAY, December 18.

GEORGE WALTON, appointed a Senator of the United States by the Executive of the State of Georgia, in place of JAMES JACKSON, resigned, produced his credentials, and, the oath required by law being administered, he took his seat in the Senate.

MONDAY, January 4.

The following Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, by Mr. Dandridge, his Secretary. Captain Sedam, of the first Sub-legion, bearing the colors mentioned in the Message:

_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_

A Letter from the Minister Plenipotentiary of the French Republic, received on the 22d of the last month, covered an Address, dated the 21st of October, 1794, from the Committee of Public Safety to the Representatives of the United States in Congress; and also informed me that he was instructed by the Committee to present to the United States the Colors of France. I therefore proposed to receive them last Friday, the first day of the new year, a day of general joy and congratulation. On that day the Minister of the French Republic delivered the Colors with an Address, to which I returned an answer. By the latter, the Senate will see that I have informed the Minister that the Colors will be deposited with the archives of the United States. But it seemed to me proper previously to exhibit to the two Houses of Congress these evidences of the continued friendship of the French Republic, together with the sentiments expressed by me on the occasion in behalf of the United States. They are herewith communicated.

G. WASHINGTON

UNITED STATES, January 4, 1796.

The Message and papers were read; after which the colors were withdrawn, and the Message and papers ordered to lie for consideration.

TUESDAY, January 5.

Presentation of French Flag.

A motion was made by Mr. TAZEWELL, seconded by Mr. LANGDON, that it be--

"Resolved by the Senate of the United States in Congress assembled, That the President be informed the Senate have received, with the purest pleasure, the evidences of the continued friendship of the French Republic, which accompanied his Message of yesterday.

"That he be requested to assure that magnanimous nation, through the proper organ, that the Senate unite with him in all the feelings expressed to the Minister of France, on the presentation of the Colors of his nation, and devoutly wish that this symbol of the triumphs and enfranchisement of that great people, given as a pledge of faithful friendship, and placed among the evidences and memorials of the freedom and independence of the United States, may contribute to cherish and perpetuate the sincere affection by which the two Republics are so happily united."

Mr. ELLSWORTH moved that these resolutions should lie on the table until to-morrow, that members should have an opportunity of perusing attentively the papers accompanying the Message of the PRESIDENT.

Mr. BUTLER said, that he should very reluctantly, in general cases, oppose a motion of the kind now made; but, on the present occasion, he could not give it his assent. If the resolutions were intricate, or by the question the judgment of the Senate could be committed, he should accord in the wish expressed by the mover; but, as the resolutions go merely to an expression of the sentiments of the House respecting the French Republic, their feelings and judgment must be as ripe for such expression now as they can be at any future period. It was not like a law that was to affect the Senate hereafter; it had nothing to do with the internal situation of the country or municipal regulations; but they only went to express a sympathetic feeling for the French Republic, and a wish to see them enjoy every happiness under the form of government they have lately chosen.

This cannot commit the Senate, he conceived. If the motion for postponement prevailed, it might convey a distrust of the sense of the Senate respecting that Republic. He felt a lively sense towards that nation on account of the glorious cause in which they had embarked; of their gallantry and spirit in their arduous struggle to place men upon a footing they were entitled to, raising them from a state of the most abject and debasing slavery.

He declared himself always ready to express his feelings on the magnanimity of such a people. If other members of the Senate possessed not those feelings, they could now give the resolutions their negative. He did not wish for a postponement, as it might be viewed as in a manner slighting the Republic.

Mr. ELLSWORTH believed there was no real difference of opinion on the subject. All felt an ardent friendship for the French; but one mode of expressing it might be more proper than another. Besides, it might be a doubt whether an expression of the feelings of the Senate on this occasion was necessary--the Representatives had already spoken. He was not, as the member who spoke before him, ready on all occasions to express his sentiments; but only on fit occasions, and then he wished to do it in the most proper manner. The operations of his mind, he confessed, were slow. He wished more time for the perusal of the documents laid before the Senate by the President.

Mr. LIVERMORE was also in favor of postponement.

Mr. LANGDON observed, that since members did so earnestly require time, he should not urge an immediate decision; he should no longer object to a postponement till to-morrow. He was happy to hear gentlemen say there was no difference of sentiment upon the present occasion; he hoped that, upon subjects relative to France, this might always be the case, and that the Senate would not confine itself to empty professions of attachment, but would evince it by substantial deeds.

Mr. TAZEWELL did not wish to press the business to an immediate decision, since members desired time. He confessed he did not expect a motion for a postponement would be made, as the resolutions he offered contained nothing more than the PRESIDENT had expressed on the occasion. However, if it was wished that the Senate should express their sentiments in still stronger language than the PRESIDENT, he should not object.

The opposition to the motion for postponement being withdrawn, it was agreed to.

WEDNESDAY, January 6.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the motion made yesterday on the Message of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, of the 4th instant, and the presentation of the flag of the French Republic; and,

On motion of Mr. CABOT, seconded by Mr. ELLSWORTH, to expunge these words from the second paragraph of the motion: "that he be requested to assure that magnanimous nation, through the proper organ"--

Mr. STRONG was in favor of striking out. He observed that the communication made to the Senate by the PRESIDENT consisted of two distinct parts, the letter from the French Committee of Safety and the address accompanying the flag. In the letter not one word was said about the flag; it was written in October, '94, and there was probably then no idea of sending one. The letter and the flag only happened to be delivered at the same time; there was no other connection between them. The letter, he said, was in answer to one from this country, and was meant to close a complimentary correspondence. It required no answer; it would puzzle any one to make an answer to it. An attempt was made by the resolution offered, which proved it impossible to answer it. The resolution forsook the contents of the letter, which, he repeated, closed the correspondence. The United States had presented to the National Convention our flag; or rather our Minister (and he was unwilling to question the propriety of his so doing) presented it on behalf of this Government; a French flag was sent in return; then the propriety of an answer on this ground became the sole question. This flag had been delivered to the PRESIDENT, who made an answer on the presentation of it--a complete and perfect answer. He communicated his answer to the Senate. Then was it proper, he asked, that the Executive should be requested to make a second answer, and nearly in the same words? The PRESIDENT, in his answer, expressly says, that he speaks not only his own sentiments, but those of the citizens at large, including, no doubt, the Senate. In this situation of the transaction nothing can be proper to be done by the Senate but to express their opinion of the propriety of his answer; and this would be accomplished by adopting the substance of the resolution, after striking out the words proposed.

There could be (he concluded by observing) no difference of feeling in the Senate on the occasion. The only difference was in the mode of expressing it, and he inclined, for the reasons given, to that which was the object of the motion for striking out.

Mr. ELLSWORTH was also of opinion that the subject divided itself into two distinct parts. The first object was an expression of the pleasure of the Senate at this new evidence of the friendship of France, and joining with the PRESIDENT in all the feelings he had expressed on the occasion. This would be effectually done by entering on the journals the resolution as proposed to be amended. The PRESIDENT received the flag and answered, then communicated the transaction to the Senate.

It appeared, by the papers communicated, he contended, that there was no connection between the letter of the Committee of Public Safety and the flag. He would not say that both were not very important transactions, but they were disconnected. The letter was written much antecedent to the sending of the flag--it was written in '94, and was intended to close a correspondence. The correspondence began by an address from the Convention, while Robespierre was an active member of it. This address was to Congress: the PRESIDENT transmitted it to each House, and they sent it back to the Executive, requesting he would answer it, with expressions of the friendly dispositions of the United States towards France. The resolutions of the Houses and the letter of the Executive were transmitted through Mr. Monroe. The letter now in the view of the Senate is an answer to that, and closes the complimentary correspondence, if it ever can close. Propriety did not require another word from the Senate; indeed, decency did not admit it, for it could not be contended that the correspondence should be kept up ad infinitum.

As to the flag, how can it require an answer from the Senate? It was not presented to them by the French Minister, but to the PRESIDENT, who had answered, not only for himself, but for the citizens of the United States; and he imagined it would not be contended that the members of the Senate were not citizens.

It is not advanced, he said, that the PRESIDENT did not express the sentiments of the Senate in the answer to the Minister; on the contrary, his words are borrowed in this resolution. But it is wished he should answer again in the same strain, and this was, in his opinion, neither necessary nor even proper.

Mr. ELLSWORTH next combated the resolution as originally offered as unconstitutional. Nothing, he contended, could be found in the constitution to authorize either branch of the Legislature to keep up any kind of correspondence with a foreign nation. To Congress were given the powers of legislation and the right of declaring war. If authority beyond this is assumed, however trifling the encroachment at first, where will it stop? It might be said, that this was a mere matter of ceremony and form, and, therefore, could do no harm. A correspondence with foreign nations was a business of difficulty and delicacy--the peace and tranquillity of a country may hinge on it. Shall the Senate, because they may think it in one case trifling, or conceive the power ought to be placed in them, assume it? If it was not specially delegated by the constitution, the Senate might, perhaps, but it is positively placed in the hands of the Executive. The people who sent us here, (said Mr. E.) placed their confidence in the PRESIDENT in matters of this nature, and it does not belong to the Senate to assume it.

So forcibly, he said, were both Houses impressed with the impropriety of the Legislature corresponding with any foreign power, that, when it was announced to them that the unfortunate Louis XVI. had accepted the constitution of '89, the communication was sent back to the PRESIDENT, with a request that he would answer it on their behalf, with congratulations and best wishes.

But even this, he considered, they had not strictly a right to do. It was only saving appearances. Neither branch had a right to dictate to the PRESIDENT what he should answer. The constitution left the whole business in his breast. It was wrong to place him in the dilemma of disobliging the Legislature or sacrificing his own discretion. But if such practices had inadvertently been followed, it was full time to secede from them.

He recapitulated, in a few words, and concluded, by observing, that should the motion for striking out prevail, members would still be in order to amend the resolution, if they chose, by adding to the warmth of expression it already contained.

Mr. BUTLER considered the situation into which the member up before him seemed desirous that the Senate should be placed, as highly degrading; they were to be deprived of the right of expressing their own sentiments, they were to have no voice, no will, no opinion of their own, but such as it would please the Executive to express for them.

The only fault he found in the resolve was, that it was not full and expressive enough. He observed, that it appeared the studied desire of one part of the House to cut off all communication between the people of the United States and the people of the French Republic. Their representatives are now told, that they can have no will, no voice, but through the Executive. Their constituents never intended that they should be placed in this ridiculous point of view, and he declared he never could sit under it silently.

He turned to the journals of the Senate to show that in the proceedings in the case of the answer to the communication from Robespierre and others, there was a considerable division in the Senate, and the mode adopted was by a majority only; but did not meet the sense of the Senate very generally.

Upon the presentation of the flag to the PRESIDENT, the Minister particularly observes, that it is for the people of the United States. The PRESIDENT in his answer, speaks of himself and his own feelings. He read part of his answer--"Born in a land of Liberty," &c. He does intimate, he observed, in a cursory manner, that he trusts he speaks the sentiments of his fellow-citizens: but does not attempt to make any professions of either branch of the Legislature, thinking, no doubt, that when the subject came before them, they would speak for themselves.

Suppose, he asked, that the expression of friendship contained in the PRESIDENT's Address on the occasion, fell short of the feelings of the Senate, would they, he asked, adopt the expressions for their own? For his own part, he declared, he could not leave it to others to speak his sentiments, but chose to reserve that right to himself. Even if no communication had been received from the French Republic, no token of attachment, the present period in their affairs, the establishment of a new government, would warrant an address of congratulation. There could be no impropriety in it, unless there were objections to drawing nigher to the Republic. Besides, the address of the Committee of Safety was certainly intended for the Legislature, being directed to the Representatives, unless it could be denied that the Senate were Representatives of the people of the United States.

There was nothing in the constitution, he contended, that could prevent the Legislature from expressing their sentiments: it was not an Executive act, but a mere complimentary answer to a complimentary presentation. If this right was denied them, where would the principle stop? The Senate might be made in time mere automata. It was as proper, he contended, for the Senate to express an opinion on the occasion as for the PRESIDENT or the House of Representatives.

He concluded by observing, that the resolution as offered, said as little as could be said on the occasion, and he never could consent to the striking out, which would cause it to be entered only on the journal, and would be an indirect slight of the French Republic, as the sentiments of the Senate would not be communicated to them.

Mr. TAZEWELL was happy to find no difference in the Senate as to the substance of the resolution. As the form, however, had been made matter of debate, some importance had been given to it which its intrinsic consequence perhaps did not deserve, and it became the Senate to weigh well their decision. It certainly, he said, could not be unknown to the Senate, that unfavorable impressions have travelled abroad respecting their feelings and sentiments towards the French, and he suggested to their consideration whether if the present motion for striking out prevailed, even in the face of their own precedents, it would not give countenance to the surmise. On a former occasion, he stated, a communication was made to the Senate through the PRESIDENT, informing that the King of France had accepted the Crown under the constitution of 1789. The Senate were not content on that occasion with barely approving what the PRESIDENT had done, but requested the PRESIDENT to say in their behalf, that they were happy at the event, and to assure the king of their good will for the prosperity of the French nation and his own. What difference, he asked, was there on that occasion and the present, when the French just adopted and organized a new government? Will it not be said, he asked, that the robes of royalty have charms with the Senate, which the humble habiliments of Democracy do not possess in their eyes, if on the present occasion they should deviate from a precedent established before royalty was abolished? This would be naturally implied, and the Senate, he conceived, should avoid the imputation. There was no necessity pleaded in favor of striking out; if the motion was not insisted on, it would remove impressions which it was useful should be removed, and which he trusted would be removed.

He dwelt on the impropriety of the Senate's rejecting a form of proceeding in this case, not only sanctioned by their own precedent, but by the practice of both the PRESIDENT and Senate. Why, especially, he asked, should they give rise to invidious comparisons between themselves and the other branch? He hoped the motion for striking out would not prevail.

Mr. ELLSWORTH conceived there existed a material difference between the present case and that cited by the member last up. The communication was then to Congress, now to the PRESIDENT, who had only given an account of the transaction to the Senate. He added, however, that the line of conduct pursued by the Senate on the former occasion did not meet his approbation; they expressed hopes which he never thought could be realized, and in the event it proved so; for before the sentiments of the Senate could cross the Atlantic, the unfortunate king and constitution were both over-thrown. This, he argued, should make the Senate wary in their proceedings in analogous cases. Upon the communication from Robespierre, Barrere, and others, the Senate were more cautious, they said nothing about the constitution, but only requested the PRESIDENT to express in their behalf the sentiments of friendship, &c., which the Senate entertained for France. The Senate gave the PRESIDENT a short text on that occasion; and he wrote according to his own discretion, and perhaps expressed more than the Senate would have said. If a short text was given, this objection occurred; if the Senate amplified, then they dictated improperly to the PRESIDENT what he should write.

The example of the House of Representatives had been mentioned; he conceived it was no rule of proceeding for the Senate. The fact was, that the resolve carried in that House was upon a very slight view indeed of the papers communicated. Indeed, it would appear upon the face of it, that it was penned before the papers were read. This was, in his opinion, no example for imitation; the Senate ought to proceed with their usual deliberation.

It had been said that doubts had gone abroad, whether the Senate were friendly to France. Those doubts had been raised by writers among us, the same who also endeavor to convince the Americans that the friendship of France towards them was not cordial. This must appear unfounded from the proceeding now the object of debate, and the former suspicion must be removed by an insertion of the substance of the resolution now before the Senate on their journals.

Mr. TAZEWELL said a few words to show that there was no difference between the case he had already cited, the proceeding of the Senate, when they expressed their satisfaction at the manner in which the National Convention had honored the memory of BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, and the present case.

Mr. Ross differed. In the former instances, the PRESIDENT made the original communications to the Senate before he had answered them; now he has answered and only communicates an account of the transaction.

Mr. BURR was against striking out. The National Convention, he observed, might, when they received the answer to their first communication, have said, as is now said on the floor of the Senate, that the correspondence there ended, and that it was not necessary to make us a reply; but they acted differently, and he hoped the Senate would acknowledge the receipt of their pledge of friendship. Indeed he said, he could not see that any great harm would arise in the two branches of the Legislature interchanging even once a year a letter of friendship and good will with the Republic. It was objected that the present resolution was no answer to the letter. A few lines would make it so, and they might easily be added. The omission did not prove, as had been asserted by one member, that it was impossible to answer it. That it was not impossible was testified by the proceedings of the other branch. He did not intend to slight the dignity of the Senate, however, he said, by quoting the proceedings of the other House as a binding rule of proceeding for this; but their proceedings certainly proved the possibility of making an answer; and besides, there was full as much propriety in looking for precedents in their conduct, as in the proceedings of a British Parliament. Each, however, in their place might deserve weight, though not implicit reliance.

He advocated the rights of the Senate to answer for themselves, and the propriety of acknowledging the receipt of the Colors, which were not sent to the Executive exclusively.

He concluded by citing the Senate's own precedents in analogous cases, and he hoped that it would not be insisted that the practice of two or three successive years deserved to be laid to the charge of inadvertency.

After a few words more from Messrs. STRONG, BURR, READ, and BUTLER, the yeas and nays were called upon striking out, which were taken and stood--yeas 16, nays 8, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Cabot, Ellsworth, Foster, Gunn, Latimer, Livermore, Marshall, Paine, Read, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, Trumbull, and Walton.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butler, Langdon, Martin, Robinson, and Tazewell.

Whereupon it was

Resolved, unanimously, that the PRESIDENT be informed the Senate have received, with the purest pleasure, the evidences of the continued friendship of the French Republic, which accompanied his Message of the 4th inst.

That the Senate unite with him in all the feelings expressed to the Minister of France on the presentation of the Colors of his nation, and devoutly wish that this symbol of the triumphs and enfranchisement of that great people, given as a pledge of faithful friendship, and placed among the evidences and memorials of the freedom and independence of the United States, may contribute to cherish and perpetuate the sincere affection by which the two Republics are so happily united.

Ordered, That the Secretary lay this resolution before the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

MONDAY, May 9.

On motion, that a paper purporting to be the appointment of WILLIAM BLOUNT and WILLIAM COCKE, respectively, to seats in the Senate, should be read, it was agreed that the motion be postponed until to-morrow.

TUESDAY, May 10.

New State of Tennessee.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the report of the committee to whom was referred the Message of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, of the 8th of April last, respecting a new State south of the river Ohio; together with the motion for amendment, made on the 11th; and on the question to agree to the proposed amendment, it passed in the negative.

WEDNESDAY, May 23.

The Proposed State of Tennessee.

The Senate resumed the consideration, in paragraphs, of the bill laying out into one State the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States, and providing for an enumeration of the inhabitants thereof.

A letter, signed William Blount and William Cocke, was read, stating that they have been duly and legally elected Senators to represent the State of Tennessee in the Senate.

On motion,

"That Mr. Blount and Mr. Cocke, who claim to be Senators of the United States, be received as spectators, and that chairs be provided for that purpose until the final decision of the Senate shall be given on the bill proposing to admit the South-western Territory into the Union:"

A motion was made to refer the consideration thereof to a committee; and it passed in the negative.

On motion to agree to the original motion, it passed in the affirmative--yeas 12, nays 11, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butler, Foster, Henry, Langdon, Martin, Potts, Robinson, Tattnall, and Tazewell.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Gunn, Latimer, Livermore, Marshall, Read, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, and Trumbull.

After debate, the further consideration of the bill last mentioned was postponed until to-morrow.

A letter from RUFUS KING was read, stating that he had accepted the appointment of Minister Plenipotentiary at the Court of London, and resigning his seat in the Senate.

THURSDAY, May 26.

New State of Tennessee.

The bill laying out into one State the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States, and providing for an enumeration of the inhabitants thereof, was read the third time.

On motion, that the bill be amended, so that the State be called and known by the name of Tennessee, it passed in the negative.

And, after agreeing to sundry amendments, on motion, that the following be an additional section to the bill:

"And be it further enacted, That if on the returns by the Supervisor of the Revenue for the District of Tennessee, as directed by this act, it shall appear to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES that the territory by this act laid out, and formed into a State, doth contain sixty thousand free inhabitants, that then it shall be lawful for the President, by his Proclamation, to declare the same; and that, in that event, and on their forming a constitution consistent with the ordinance of Congress of the thirteenth day of July, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven, the said State, by the name and style of 'The State of Tennessee,' shall be received and admitted into the Union as a new and entire member of the United States of America. And, until an enumeration shall be made, under the authority of Congress, for the purpose of apportioning Representatives, the said State of Tennessee shall be entitled to choose one Representative:"

A motion was made to amend this motion, by striking out the following words:

"And on their forming a constitution consistent with the ordinance of Congress of the thirteenth day of July, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven:"

It passed in the negative--yeas 11, nays 12, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butler, Henry, Langdon, Livermore, Martin, Robinson, Tattnall, and Tazewell.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Foster, Gunn, Latimer, Marshall, Potts, Read, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, and Trumbull.

And, on the question to agree to the motion without amendment, it passed in the negative--yeas 10, nays 12, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Burr, Foster, Gunn, Henry, Latimer, Livermore, Martin, Potts, Tattnall, and Trumbull.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bloodworth, Bradford, Brown, Langdon, Marshall, Read, Robinson, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, and Tazewell.

On the question, that the bill pass, it was determined in the affirmative--yeas 15, nays 8, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Brown, Foster, Gunn, Latimer, Martin, Potts, Read, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, Tattnall, Tazewell, and Trumbull.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Burr, Butler, Henry, Langdon, Livermore, Marshall, and Robinson.

So it was resolved, that this bill pass; that it be engrossed; and that the title thereof be "An act laying out into one State the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States, and providing for an enumeration of the inhabitants thereof."

TUESDAY, May 31.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House have passed a bill, entitled "An act to alter the time of the next annual meeting of Congress;" in which they desire the concurrence of the Senate. They insist on their amendment, disagreed to by the Senate, to the bill, entitled "An act laying out into one State the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States, and providing for the enumeration of the inhabitants thereof;" ask a conference thereon, and have appointed managers at the same, on their part. They agree to all the amendments of the Senate to the bill, entitled, "An act regulating the grants of land appropriated for military services, and for the Society of United Brethren, for propagating the Gospel among the Heathen;" except to the last, to which they disagree.

New State of Tennessee.

The Senate proceeded to consider the resolution of the House of Representatives, desiring a conference on the bill, entitled, "An act laying out into one State the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States, and providing for an enumeration of the inhabitants thereof."

On motion, to postpone the further consideration thereof until the next session of Congress, it passed in the negative--yeas 10, nays 13, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Foster, Latimer, Potts, Read, Ross, Rutherford, Strong, and Trumbull.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butler, Gunn, Henry, Langdon, Livermore, Marshall, Martin, Robinson, Tattnall, and Tazewell.

Resolved, That the Senate agree to the proposed conference, and that Messrs. BURR and STRONG be managers at the same on their part.

Mr. BURR, from the joint committee of conference on the bill, entitled "An act laying out into one State the territory ceded by the State of North Carolina to the United States, and providing for an enumeration of the inhabitants thereof," reported, as the opinion of the majority of the joint committee, that the Senate recede from their disagreement to the amendment of the House of Representatives. Whereupon,

Resolved, That the Senate recede from their disagreement to the said amendment.

A motion was made by Mr. Burr, as follows:

"Resolved, That any enumeration of the inhabitants of any district under the temporary Government of the United States, for the purpose of furnishing evidence to Congress that such district contains the number which may entitle it to admission into the Union, shall have been taken and made, under a law to be made by the Legislature of the said district, of the free inhabitants only, and, in all other respects, pursuant to the provisions contained in the act, entitled "An act providing for the enumeration of the inhabitants of the United States:""

Which motion was read and ordered to lie until to-morrow for consideration.

WEDNESDAY EVENING, 5 o'clock, June 1.

New State of Tennessee.

On motion, by Mr. MARTIN, that it be

"Resolved, That the Honorable William Blount, and William Cocke, Esquires, who have produced credentials of being duly elected Senators for the State of Tennessee, be admitted to take the oath necessary for their qualification, and their seats accordingly;"

Ordered, That a paper, purporting to be the credentials of Mr. BLOUNT and Mr. COCKE, be read.

And, on the question to agree to the resolution, it passed in the negative--yeas 10, nays 11, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Bloodworth, Brown, Burr, Butler, Gunn, Langdon, Martin, Robinson, Tattnall, and Tazewell.

NAYS.--Messrs. Bingham, Bradford, Foster, Latimer, Livermore, Marshall, Potts, Read, Ross, Rutherford, and Trumbull.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate, that the House, having finished the business before them, are about to adjourn to the first Monday in December next.

Mr. BUTLER, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him that, unless he had any further communications to make to them, they were ready to adjourn, reported, that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES had no further communication to make, except the nomination of certain persons to execute the laws passed the present session.

After the consideration of the Executive business, the PRESIDENT adjourned the Senate to the first Monday in December next.

FOURTH CONGRESS.--FIRST SESSION.

PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

IN

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

MONDAY, December 7, 1795.

The following members appeared, and took their seats:

From New Hampshire.--ABIEL FOSTER, NICHOLAS GILMAN, JOHN S. SHERBURNE, and JEREMIAH SMITH.

From Massachusetts.--THEOPHILUS BRADBURY, HENRY DEARBORN, DWIGHT FOSTER, NATHANIEL FREEMAN, Jr., BENJAMIN GOODHUE, GEORGE LEONARD, SAMUEL LYMAN, WILLIAM LYMAN, JOHN READ, THEODORE SEDGWICK, GEORGE THATCHER, JOSEPH B. VARNUM, and PELEG WADSWORTH.

From Rhode Island.--BENJAMIN BOURNE, and FRANCIS MALBONE.

From Connecticut.--JOSHUA COIT, CHAUNCEY GOODRICH, ROGER GRISWOLD, ZEPHANIAH SWIFT, and URIAH TRACY.

From Vermont.--ISRAEL SMITH.

From New York.--THEODORUS BAILEY, WILLIAM COOPER, EZEKIEL GILBERT, HENRY GLENN, JONATHAN N. HAVENS, EDWARD LIVINGSTON, JOHN E. VAN ALLEN, PHILIP VAN CORTLANDT, and JOHN WILLIAMS.

From New Jersey.--JONATHAN DAYTON, AARON KITCHELL, ISAAC SMITH, and MARK THOMPSON.

From Pennsylvania.--DAVID BAIRD, ALBERT GALLATIN, DANIEL HEISTER, JOHN WILKES KITTERA, SAMUEL MACLAY, FREDERICK AUGUSTUS MUHLENBERG, SAMUEL SITGREAVES, JOHN SWANWICK, and RICHARD THOMAS.

From Delaware.--JOHN PATTEN.

From Maryland.--GABRIEL CHRISTIE, GEORGE DENT, GABRIEL DUVALL, WILLIAM HINDMAN, and WILLIAM VANS MURRAY.

From Virginia.--SAMUEL J. CABELL, JOHN CLOPTON, ISAAC COLES, WILLIAM B. GILES, GEORGE HANCOCK, CARTER B. HARRISON, JOHN HEATH, GEORGE JACKSON, JAMES MADISON, ANDREW MOORE, JOSIAH PARKER, ROBERT RUTHERFORD, and ABRAHAM VENABLE.

From North Carolina.--THOMAS BLOUNT, NATHAN BRYAN, DEMPSEY BURGES, JESSE FRANKLIN, WILLIAM B. GROVE, JAMES HOLLAND, MATTHEW LOCKE, NATHANIEL MACON, and ABSALOM TATOM.

From South Carolina.--SAMUEL EARLE, ROBERT GOODLOE HARPER, and WILLIAM SMITH.

From Georgia.--ABRAHAM BALDWIN.

And a quorum, consisting of a majority of the whole number being present,

The House proceeded by ballot, to the choice of a SPEAKER; and, upon examining the ballots, a majority of the votes of the whole House was found in favor of JONATHAN DAYTON, one of the Representatives for the State of New Jersey. Whereupon,

The said JONATHAN DAYTON was conducted to the chair, from whence he made his acknowledgments to the House, as follows:

GENTLEMEN: It is with real diffidence that I undertake the execution of the duties which you have done me the honor to assign to me.

In discharging them to the best of my abilities, I anticipate, on your part, a liberal and indulgent temper towards those decisions which may be required from the Chair, and flatter myself that I shall experience, upon all occasions, your co-operation and support.

The House proceeded, in the same manner, to the appointment of a Clerk; and, upon examining the ballots, a majority of the votes of the whole House was found in favor of JOHN BECKLEY.

The oath to support the Constitution of the United States, as prescribed by the act, entitled "An act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths," was then administered by ISAAC SMITH, one of the Representatives from the State of New Jersey, to the SPEAKER, and then by Mr. SPEAKER to all the members present.

The same oath, together with the oath of office prescribed by the said recited act, were also administered by Mr. SPEAKER to the Clerk.

A message was received from the Senate, informing the House that a quorum of members of that body is assembled, and the VICE PRESIDENT being absent, they have proceeded to the choice of a PRESIDENT pro tempore, and that HENRY TAZEWELL has been duly elected.

Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate to inform that body that a quorum of this House is assembled, and have elected JONATHAN DAYTON their SPEAKER; and that the Clerk of this House do go with the message.

Another message from the Senate was received, informing this House that they have appointed a committee on their part, to act jointly with such committee as may be appointed by this House, to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, to inform him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communication he may think proper to make to them.

Ordered, That Mr. MADISON, Mr. SEDGWICK, and Mr. SITGREAVES, be appointed a committee on the part of this House, for the purpose expressed in the message of the Senate.

Petitions from sundry persons, praying to be appointed to the offices of Sergeant-at-Arms and Doorkeeper, were presented to the House and read: Whereupon,

The House proceeded, by ballot, to the choice of a Sergeant-at-Arms, Doorkeeper, and Assistant Doorkeeper; and, upon examining the ballots, a majority of the votes of the whole House was found in favor of JOSEPH WHEATON, as Sergeant-at-Arms, THOMAS CLAXTON, as Doorkeeper, and THOMAS DUNN, as Assistant Doorkeeper.

Ordered, That the said JOSEPH WHEATON, THOMAS CLAXTON, and THOMAS DUNN, do severally give their attendance accordingly.

Mr. MADISON, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communication he may think proper to make to them, reported that the committee had, according to order, performed that service, and that the PRESIDENT signified to them that he would make a communication to both Houses of Congress to-morrow, at 12 o'clock, in the Representatives' Chamber.

TUESDAY, December 8.

Several other members, to wit: from Maryland, SAMUEL SMITH; from Virginia, RICHARD BRENT; and from Georgia, JOHN MILLEDGE, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to them by Mr. SPEAKER, according to law.

Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate to inform them that this House is now ready to attend them in receiving the communication from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, agreeably to his notification to both Houses yesterday; and that the Clerk of this House do go with the said message.

The Clerk accordingly went with the said message; and, being returned,

The Senate attended and took seats in the House; when, both Houses being assembled, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES came into the Representatives' Chamber, and delivered his Speech to the two Houses. [For a copy of this Speech, see the Proceedings of the Senate.]

The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES then withdrew, and the two Houses separated.

Ordered, That the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to both Houses be committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

WEDNESDAY, December 9.

JAMES HILLHOUSE, from Connecticut, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat.

Address to the President.

The House, according to the order of the day, resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to both Houses of Congress, Mr. MUHLENBERG in the chair; when, the Speech being read,

Mr. VANS MURRAY moved the following resolution:

"Resolved, That it is the opinion of the committee, that a respectful Address ought to be presented by the House of Representatives to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, at the commencement of this session, containing assurances that this House will take into consideration the various and important matters recommended to their attention:"

Mr. SEDGWICK seconded the motion.

Mr. PARKER offered an amendment, which was seconded by Mr. MACON.

The substance of this amendment was, to strike out all that part of the resolution which goes before the word assurances; in place of which, Mr. PARKER proposed to appoint a committee, who should personally wait on the PRESIDENT, and assure him of the attention of the House, &c., and concluding as above. Mr. P. had the highest respect for the PRESIDENT, but he had always disapproved of this practice of making out Addresses in answer to these Speeches, and of the House leaving their business to go in a body to present them. Last session, the framing of this Address had cost very long debates, and produced very great irritation. Some of the most disagreeable things that happened during the session occurred in these debates. He wished unanimity and the despatch of business, and so, could not consent that any Address should be drawn up, as he preferred ending the affair at once by sending a committee with a verbal answer.

Mr. MURRAY replied, that the practice of drawing up such an Address was coeval with the constitution. It was consistent with good sense; and he did not see that any argument had been employed by the gentleman who spoke last against it. It was true that the House might send a verbal answer, and it was likewise true that the PRESIDENT might have sent them his Speech by his Secretary, without coming near them at all. He had come to Congress, and Mr. M. could perceive no impropriety in Congress returning the compliment by waiting on him.

The committee divided on the amendment proposed by Mr. PARKER. Eighteen members rose in support of it: so it was lost. The committee then agreed to the resolution as offered by Mr. MURRAY. They rose, and the Chairman reported progress. The resolution was agreed to by the House. The next question was, of how many members the select committee should consist that were to be employed in framing a draft of the Address. The different numbers of five and three were proposed. A division took place on the former motion, when only thirty-one gentlemen rose in its favor. The motion for a committee of three members to report an Address was of course carried. Mr. MADISON, Mr. SEDGWICK, and Mr. SITGREAVES, were appointed.[61]

It was then moved that two Chaplains should be named, as usual; which was agreed to.

THURSDAY, December 10.

FRANCIS PRESTON, from Virginia, appeared, was qualified, and took his seat.

FRIDAY, December 11.

Several other members, to wit: from Vermont, DANIEL BUCK; from New Jersey, THOMAS HENDERSON; from Pennsylvania, WILLIAM FINDLAY; and from Virginia, JOHN NICHOLAS, appeared, produced their credentials, were qualified, and took their seats.

MONDAY, December 14.

Two other members, to wit: from Pennsylvania, THOMAS HARTLEY, and from Virginia, ANTHONY NEW, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats.

Address to the President.

Mr. MADISON, from the select committee appointed to draft an Address in answer to the Speech of the PRESIDENT, made a report, which was read by the Clerk.

Mr. GILES moved that the usual number of copies of the Address should be printed for the use of the members.

TUESDAY, December 15.

Address to the President.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. MUHLENBERG in the chair, on the draft of an answer to the PRESIDENT's Speech. The following sentence being under consideration:

"Contemplating that probably unequalled spectacle of national happiness, which our country exhibits, to the interesting summary which you, sir, have been pleased to make, in justice to our own feelings, permit us to add the benefits which are derived from your presiding in our councils, resulting as well from the undiminished confidence of your fellow-citizens, as from your zealous and successful labors in their service."

Mr. PARKER moved to strike out the words "probably unequalled," and from the word "councils," to the end. He owned that the United States owe much to the PRESIDENT for his services on most occasions; but he had sometimes erred as other men. He could not for his own part subscribe to the expressions contained in the words which he had moved to strike out; his confidence in the PRESIDENT was diminished in consequence of a late transaction.

Mr. SHERBURNE called for a division of the question; that a question should first be put upon the words "probably unequalled," and afterwards upon striking out the latter part of the clause.

The question was accordingly put upon the words "probably unequalled," and they were struck out, 43 to 39.

Mr. MURRAY rose to make a few observations on the motion for striking out from the word "councils." As a Representative from Maryland, he said, he could not on this occasion be contented to give a silent vote. The Legislature of that State had not long since declared, that their confidence in the PRESIDENT remains undiminished; and though his single sentiment might be deemed unimportant when viewed in connection with the unanimous vote of his State, yet he was free to declare, that his confidence in the Chief Magistrate had experienced no diminution. The Legislature of Maryland, he observed, had foreseen that attempts would be made, and saw that unjustifiable attempts were actually making to diminish the confidence of the people in the PRESIDENT; they therefore resolved to give the sanction of their unanimous vote to his character, declaring that the PRESIDENT retained their confidence, and that he had merited it. Though not bound by the opinion of the Legislature of that State, he conceived it his duty not to give a silent vote on the present occasion.

Mr. GILES had hoped that nothing would have been brought before the House calculated to disturb the harmony that ought to subsist, by involving the discussion of delicate points. He had as much zeal as any man for the preservation of the PRESIDENT's fame and reputation; but he could not go the length of the expressions in the clause objected to. He could not agree to it in its present shape, because the assertion in it does not correspond with the fact. After this remark, there could not, he conceived, be any inconsistency in voting against the word and still feeling a regard for the PRESIDENT. He hoped his fame and reputation might never receive a stain, but pass unimpaired to posterity. He should vote for striking out.

Mr. FREEMAN wished the motion might be so modified as to involve the striking out of the word "undiminished" only. Though he for himself, he observed, might say that his confidence in the PRESIDENT was undiminished, he could not utter the same sentiment in behalf of the people at large. In his opinion the confidence of a part (a very small one perhaps) of the people was diminished; though that of a majority might be unshaken.

Spotted a typo or a problem in this chapter? Tell us