Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16) (part 5 of 10)
Mr. MADISON observed, that the present is a question which ought to be conducted with moderation and candor; and, therefore, there is no occasion to have recourse to those tragic representations which have been adduced. Warmth and passion should be excluded from the discussion of a subject which ought to depend on the cool dictates of reason for its decision.
Adverting to the observation of Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina,) "that it would be a deplorable thing for the Senate of the United States to have fallen on a decision which violates the constitution," he inquired, What does the reasoning of the gentleman tend to show but this, that from respect to the Senate this House ought to sanction their decisions? And from hence it will follow, that the President of the United States ought, out of respect to both, to sanction their joint proceedings; but he could remind the gentleman of his holding different sentiments on another occasion.
Mr. M. then enlarged on the exact balance or equipoise contemplated by the constitution, to be observed and maintained between the several branches of Government; and showed, that except this idea was preserved, the advantages of different independent branches would be lost, and their separate deliberations and determinations be entirely useless.
In describing a corporation, he observed, that the powers proposed to be given are such as do not exist antecedent to the existence of the corporation; these powers are very extensive in their nature, and to which a principle of perpetuity may be annexed.
He waived a reply to Mr. VINING's observations on the common law, [in which that gentleman had been lengthy and minute, in order to invalidate Mr. MADISON's objections to the power proposed to be given to the Bank, to make rules and regulations, not contrary to law.] Mr. M. said the question would involve a very lengthy discussion; and other objects more intimately connected with the subject remained to be considered.
The power of granting charters, he observed, is a great and important power, and ought not to be exercised unless we find ourselves expressly authorized to grant them. Here he dilated on the great and extensive influence that incorporated societies had on public affairs in Europe. They are powerful machines, which have always been found competent to effect objects on principles in a great measure independent of the people.
He argued against the influence of the precedent to be established by the bill; for though it has been said, that the charter is to be granted only for a term of years, yet he contended, that granting the powers on any principle is granting them in perpetuum; and assuming this right on the part of the Government involves the assumption of every power whatever.
Noticing the arguments in favor of the bill, he said, it had been observed that "Government necessarily possesses every power." However true this idea may be in the theory, he denied that it applied to the Government of the United States.
Here he read the restrictive clause in the constitution; and then observed, that he saw no pass over this limit.
The preamble to the constitution, said he, has produced a new mine of power; but this is the first instance he had heard of, in which the preamble has been adduced for such a purpose. In his opinion, the preamble only states the objects of the Confederation, and the subsequent clauses designate the express powers by which those objects are to be obtained; and a mean is proposed through which to acquire those that may be found still requisite, more fully to effect the purposes of the Confederation.
It is said, "there is a field of legislation yet unexplored." He had often heard this language; but he confessed he did not understand it. Is there a single blade of grass--is there any property in existence in the United States, which is not a subject of legislation, either of the particular States, or of the United States? He contended that the exercise of this power, on the part of the United States, involves, to all intents and purposes, every power which an individual State may exercise. On this principle, he denied the right of Congress to make use of a bank to facilitate the collection of taxes. He did not, however, admit the idea, that the institution would conduce to that object. The bank notes are to be equal to gold and silver, and consequently will be as difficult to obtain as the specie. By means of the objects of trade on which gold and silver are employed, there will be an influx of those articles; but paper being substituted, will fill those channels which would otherwise be occupied by the precious metals. This, experience shows, is the uniform effect of such a substitution.
The right of Congress to regulate trade is adduced as an argument in favor of this of creating a corporation; but what has this bill to do with trade? Would any plain man suppose that this bill had any thing to do with trade?
He noticed the observation respecting the utility of banks to aid the Government with loans. He denied the necessity of the institution to aid the Government in this respect. Great Britain, he observed, did not depend on such institutions; she borrows from various sources.
Banks, it is said, are necessary to pay the interest of the public debt. Then they ought to be established in the places where that interest is paid; but can any man say, that the bank notes will circulate at par in Georgia? From the example in Scotland, we know that they cannot be made equal to specie, remote from the place where they can be immediately converted into coin; they must depreciate in case of a demand for specie; and if there is no moral certainty that the interest can be paid by these bank bills, will the Government be justified in depriving itself of the power of establishing banks in different parts of the Union?
We reason, and often with advantage, from British models; but in the present instance there is a great dissimilarity of circumstances. The bank notes of Great Britain do not circulate universally. To make the circumstances parallel, it ought to have been assumed as a fact, that banks are established in various parts of Great Britain, at which the interest of the national debt is paid; but the fact is, it is only paid in one place.
The clause of the constitution which has been so often recurred to, and which empowers Congress to dispose of its property, he supposed referred only to the property left at the conclusion of the war, and has no reference to the moneyed property of the United States.
The clause which empowers Congress to pass all laws necessary, &c., has been brought forward repeatedly by the advocates of the bill; he noticed the several constructions of this clause which had been offered. The conclusion which he drew from the commentary of the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. GERRY,) was, that Congress may do what they please; and recurring to the opinion of that gentleman in 1787, he said the powers of the constitution were then dark, inexplicable, and dangerous; but now, perhaps, as the result of experience, they are clear and luminous!
The constructions of the constitution, he asserted, which have been maintained on this occasion, go to the subversion of every power whatever in the several States; but we are told, for our comfort, that the judges will rectify our mistakes. How are the judges to determine in the case; are they to be guided in their decisions by the rules of expediency?
It has been asked, that if those minute powers of the constitution were thought to be necessary, is it supposable that the great and important power on the table was not intended to be given? Mr. M. interpreted this circumstance in a quite different way, viz: if it was thought necessary to specify in the constitution those minute powers, it would follow that more important powers would have been explicitly granted, had they been contemplated.
The Western Territory business, he observed, was a case sui generis, and therefore cannot be cited with propriety. West Point, so often mentioned, he said, was purchased by the United States, pursuant to law, and the consent of the State of New York is supposed, if it has not been expressly granted; but, on any occasion, does it follow that one violation of the constitution is to be justified by another?
The permanent residence bill, he conceived, was entirely irrelative to the subject; but he conceived it might be justified on truly constitutional principles.
The act vesting in the President of the United States the power of removability has been quoted; he recapitulated, in a few words, his reasons for being in favor of that bill.
The Bank of North America he had opposed, as he considered the institution as a violation of the Confederation. The State of Massachusetts, he recollected, voted with him on that occasion. The Bank of North America was, however, the child of necessity; as soon as the war was over, it ceased to operate as to Continental purposes. But, asked he, are precedents in war to justify violations of private and State rights in a time of peace? And did the United States pass laws to punish the counterfeiting the notes of that bank? They did not, being convinced of the invalidity of any such law; the bank, therefore, took shelter under the authority of the State.
The energetic administration of this Government is said to be connected with this institution. Mr. M. here stated the principles on which he conceived this Government ought to be administered; and added, other gentlemen may have had other ideas on the subject, and may have consented to the ratification of the constitution on different principles and expectations; but he considered the enlightened opinion and affection of the people the only solid basis for the support of this Government.
Mr. M. then stated his objections to the several parts of the bill. The first article he objected to was the duration. A period of twenty years was, to this country, as a period of a century in the history of other countries; there was no calculating for the events which might take place. He urged the ill policy of granting so long a term, from the experience of the Government in respect to some treaties, which, though found inconvenient, could not now be altered.
The different classes of the public creditors, he observed, were not all put on an equal footing by this bill; but in the bill for the disposal of the Western Territory this had been thought essential. The holders of six per cent. securities will derive undue advantages. Creditors at a distance, and the holders of three per cent. securities, ought to be considered, as the public good is most essentially promoted by an equal attention to the interest of all.
I admit, said he, that the Government ought to consider itself as the trustee of the public on this occasion, and therefore should avail itself of the best disposition of the public property.
In this view of the subject, he objected to the bill, as the public, he thought, ought to derive greater advantages from the institution than those proposed. In case of a universal circulation of the notes of the proposed bank, the profits will be so great that the Government ought to receive a very considerable sum for granting the charter.
There are other defects in the bill, which render it proper and necessary, in my opinion, that it should undergo a revision and amendment before it passes into a law. The power vested by the bill in the Executive to borrow of the bank, he thought was objectionable; and the right to establish subordinate banks ought not to be delegated to any set of men under Heaven.
The public opinion has been mentioned. If the appeal to the public opinion is suggested with sincerity, we ought to let our constituents have an opportunity to form an opinion on the subject.
He concluded by saying, he should move for the previous question.
The previous question, "Shall the main question now be put?" being determined in the affirmative,
Mr. GERRY rose to reply to Mr. MADISON; but the House discovering an impatience to have the main question put, after a few remarks, he waived any further observations.
The yeas and nays were then taken as follows, on the passage of the bill:
YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Bourne, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, P. Muhlenberg, Partridge, Rensselaer, Schureman, Scott, Sedgwick, Seney, Sevier, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Steele, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, and Wynkoop--39.
NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Contee, Gale, Grout, Giles, Jackson, Lee, Madison. Mathews, Moore, Parker, Stone, Tucker, White, and Williamson--20.
MONDAY, February 14.
Commerce with England.
The following Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:
Gentlemen of the Senate, and House of Representatives:
Soon after I was called to the administration of the Government, I found it important to come to an understanding with the Court of London, on several points interesting to the United States; and particularly to know whether they were disposed to enter into arrangements, by mutual consent, which might fix the commerce between the two nations on principles of reciprocal advantage. For this purpose, I authorized informal conferences with their Ministers; and from these, I do not infer any disposition, on their part, to enter into any arrangements merely commercial. I have thought it proper to give you this information, as it might, at some time, have influence on matters under your consideration.
GEO. WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, February 14, 1791.
THURSDAY, March 3.
Jails of the States.
On motion that the House do come to the following resolution:
Whereas Congress did, by a resolution of the 23d of September, 1789, recommend to the several States to pass laws making it expressly the duty of the keepers of their jails to receive, and safely keep therein, all prisoners committed under authority of the United States: In order, therefore, to ensure the administration of justice:
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That, in case any State shall not have complied with the said recommendation, the Marshal in such State, under the direction of the Judge of the District, be authorized to hire a convenient place to serve as a temporary jail, and to make the necessary provision for the safe-keeping of prisoners committed under the authority of the United States, until permanent provision shall be made by law for that purpose; and the said Marshal shall be allowed his reasonable expenses incurred for the above purposes, to be paid out of the Treasury of the United States.
It was resolved in the affirmative.
Session Closed.
The business of the session being gone through, on motion,
Resolved, That the thanks of the House of Representatives of the United States be presented to Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, in testimony of their approbation of his conduct in the chair, and in the execution of the difficult and important trust reposed in him as Speaker of the said House.
It was resolved, unanimously: whereupon
Mr. SPEAKER made his acknowledgments to the House, in manner following:
Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:
This unexpected mark of your approbation of my conduct has made so deep an impression on my mind, that I cannot find words to express the high sense of gratitude I entertain on this occasion.
I have not vanity sufficient to suppose that my feeble, though well-meant, endeavors merit so great a reward; for it was your kind indulgence and support alone which enabled me to go through the duties of the station which you were pleased to assign me; but I shall ever consider this distinguished and honorable testimony as the most fortunate circumstance in my life.
Gentlemen, I most sincerely thank you. May every possible happiness attend you and every individual of this body, and may your zealous endeavors to promote the welfare of our beloved country, which I have so long and so often been a witness to, be crowned with unbounded success.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate, to inform them that this House, having completed the business before them, are now about to adjourn without day, and that the Clerk of this House do go with the said message.
The Clerk accordingly went with the said message, and being returned,
A message was received from the Senate, notifying that the Senate, having completed the legislative business before them, are now about to adjourn; whereupon,
Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without day.
SECOND CONGRESS.--FIRST SESSION.
HELD AT THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, OCTOBER 24, 1791, TO MAY 8, 1792.
LIST OF MEMBERS.
SENATORS.
New Hampshire.--John Langdon, Paine Wingate.
Vermont.--S. R. Bradley, Moses Robinson.
Massachusetts.--George Cabot, Caleb Strong.
Rhode Island.--Theodore Foster, Joseph Stanton.
Connecticut.--Oliver Ellsworth, Roger Sherman.
New York.--Aaron Burr, Rufus King.
New Jersey.--Philemon Dickinson, John Rutherford.
Pennsylvania.--Robert Morris, James Ross.
Delaware.--Richard Bassett, George Read.
Maryland.--Charles Carroll, John Henry.
Virginia.--Richard H. Lee, James Monroe.
North Carolina.--Benjamin Hawkins, Samuel Johnston.
South Carolina.--Pierce Butler, Ralph Izard.
Georgia.--William Few, James Gunn.
REPRESENTATIVES.
New Hampshire.--Nicholas Gilman, S. Livermore, Jeremiah Smith.
Vermont.--Nathaniel Niles, Israel Smith.
Massachusetts.--Fisher Ames, S. Bourne, Elbridge Gerry, Benjamin Goodhue, George Leonard, T. Sedgwick, George Thatcher, Artemas Ward.
Rhode Island.--Benjamin Bourne.
Connecticut.--James Hillhouse, Amasa Learned, Jonathan Sturges, Jonathan Trumbull, Jeremiah Wadsworth.
New York.--Egbert Benson, James Gordon, John Laurance, C. C. Schoonmaker, Peter Sylvester, T. Tredwell.
New Jersey.--Elias Boudinot, Jonathan Dayton, Aaron Kitchell.
Pennsylvania.--William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, Israel Jacobs, John W. Kittera, Frederick A. Muhlenberg.
Delaware.--John Vining.
Maryland.--Philip Key, William Pinkney, Joshua Seney, Updine Sheredine, Samuel Sterrett, William Vans Murray.
Virginia.--John Browne, William B. Giles, Samuel Griffin, Richard Bland Lee, James Madison, Andrew Moore, John Page, Josiah Parker, A. B. Venable, Alexander White.
North Carolina.--John B. Ashe, Timothy Bloodworth, William B. Grove, Nathaniel Macon, John Sevier, John Steele, Hugh Williamson.
South Carolina.--Robert Barnwell, Daniel Huger, William Smith, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tudor Tucker.
Georgia.--Abraham Baldwin, Anthony Wayne, Francis Willis.
PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.
MONDAY, October 24, 1791.
This being the day fixed by law for the annual meeting of Congress, at the first session of the second Congress, the following members of the Senate appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats:
JOHN ADAMS, Vice President and President of the Senate.
JOHN LANGDON and PAINE WINGATE, from New Hampshire.
CALEB STRONG and GEORGE CABOT, from Massachusetts.
THEODORE FOSTER and JOSEPH STANTON, jr., from Rhode Island.
ROGER SHERMAN, from Connecticut, in the place of WILLIAM S. JOHNSON, resigned.
AARON BURR, from New York.
PHILEMON DICKINSON and JOHN RUTHERFORD, from New Jersey.
ROBERT MORRIS, from Pennsylvania.
GEORGE READ, from Delaware.
SAMUEL JOHNSTON and BENJAMIN HAWKINS, from North Carolina.
PIERCE BUTLER and RALPH IZARD, from South Carolina; and
WILLIAM FEW, from Georgia.
Ordered, That Messrs. Butler, Morris, and Dickinson, be a committee to wait on the President of the United States, and inform him that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and ready to receive any communication he may be pleased to make to them.
Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives that a quorum of the Senate is assembled and ready to proceed to business; and that they have notified the President of the United States that they are ready to receive such communications as he may be pleased to make to them.
Mr. IZARD, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States, agreeably to the resolution of the two Houses, of this day, reported that they had executed the business, and that the President of the United States proposed to-morrow, at 12 o'clock, to meet the two Houses of Congress in the Senate Chamber.
TUESDAY, October 25.
Ordered, That the Secretary inform the House of Representatives that the Senate are ready to meet them in the Senate Chamber, to receive any communications the President of the United States may be pleased to make to the two Houses of Congress; and that the usual seats will be assigned them.
The House of Representatives having accordingly taken their seats, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES came into the Senate Chamber, and addressed both Houses of Congress as followeth:[39]
Fellow-Citizens of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:
I meet you upon the present occasion with the feelings which are naturally inspired by a strong impression of the prosperous situation of our common country, and by a persuasion, equally strong, that the labors of the session which has just commenced will, under the guidance of a spirit no less prudent than patriotic, issue in measures conducive to the stability and increase of national prosperity.
Numerous as are the Providential blessings which demand our grateful acknowledgments, the abundance with which another year has again rewarded the industry of the husbandman is too important to escape recollection.
Your own observations in your respective situations will have satisfied you of the progressive state of agriculture, manufactures, commerce, and navigation. In tracing their causes, you will have remarked, with particular pleasure, the happy effects of that revival of confidence, public as well as private, to which the Constitution and laws of the United States have so eminently contributed; and you will have observed, with no less interest, new and decisive proofs of the increasing reputation and credit of the nation. But you, nevertheless, cannot fail to derive satisfaction from the confirmation of these circumstances, which will be disclosed in the several official communications that will be made to you in the course of your deliberations.
The rapid subscriptions to the Bank of the United States, which completed the sum allowed to be subscribed in a single day, is among the striking and pleasing evidences which present themselves, not only of confidence in the Government, but of resource in the community.
In the interval of your recess, due attention has been paid to the execution of the different objects which were specially provided for by the laws and resolutions of the last session.
Among the most important of these, is the defence and security of the Western frontiers. To accomplish it on the most humane principles was a primary wish.
Accordingly, at the same time that treaties have been provisionally concluded, and other proper means used to attach the wavering, and to confirm in their friendship the well-disposed tribes of Indians, effectual measures have been adopted to make those of a hostile description sensible that a pacification was desired upon terms of moderation and justice.
These measures having proved unsuccessful, it became necessary to convince the refractory of the power of the United States to punish their depredations. Offensive operations have therefore been directed, to be conducted, however, as consistently as possible with the dictates of humanity. Some of these have been crowned with full success, and others are yet depending. The expeditions which have been completed were carried on under the authority, and at the expense, of the United States, by the militia of Kentucky; whose enterprise, intrepidity, and good conduct are entitled to peculiar commendation.
Overtures of peace are still continued to the deluded tribes, and considerable numbers of individuals belonging to them have lately renounced all further opposition, removed from their former situations, and placed themselves under the immediate protection of the United States.
It is sincerely to be desired, that all need of coercion in future may cease; and that an intimate intercourse may succeed, calculated to advance the happiness of the Indians, and to attach them firmly to the United States.
In order to this, it seems necessary--
That they should experience the benefits of an impartial dispensation of justice.
That the mode of alienating their lands, the main source of discontent and war, should be so defined and regulated as to obviate imposition, and, as far as may be practicable, controversy concerning the reality and extent of the alienations which are made.
That commerce with them should be promoted under regulations tending to secure an equitable deportment towards them, and that such rational experiments should be made, for imparting to them the blessings of civilization, as may from time to time suit their condition.
That the Executive of the United States should be enabled to employ the means to which the Indians have been long accustomed for uniting their immediate interests with the preservation of peace.
And that efficacious provision should be made for inflicting adequate penalties upon all those who, by violating their rights, shall infringe the treaties, and endanger the peace of the Union.
A system corresponding with the mild principles of religion and philanthropy towards an unenlightened race of men, whose happiness materially depends on the conduct of the United States, would be as honorable to the national character as conformable to the dictates of sound policy.
Pursuant to the authority contained in the several acts on that subject, a district of ten miles square, for the permanent seat of the Government of the United States, has been fixed, and announced by proclamation; which district will comprehend lands on both sides of the river Potomac, and the towns of Alexandria and Georgetown. A city has also been laid out, agreeably to a plan which will be placed before Congress. And, as there is a prospect, favored by the rate of sales which have already taken place, of ample funds for carrying on the necessary public buildings, there is every expectation of their due progress.
The completion of the census of the inhabitants, for which provision was made by law, has been duly notified, (excepting one instance in which the return has been informal; and another, in which it has been omitted or miscarried,) and the returns of the officers who were charged with this duty, which will be laid before you, will give you the pleasing assurance, that the present population of the United States borders on four millions of persons.
Gentlemen of the Senate:
Two treaties which have been provisionally concluded with the Cherokees and Six Nations of Indians, will be laid before you for your consideration and ratification.
Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:
In entering upon the discharge of your legislative trust, you must anticipate, with pleasure, that many of the difficulties, necessarily incident to the first arrangements of a new Government, for an extensive country, have been happily surmounted by the zealous and judicious exertions of your predecessors, in co-operation with the other branch of the Legislature. The important objects which remain to be accomplished, will, I am persuaded, be conducted upon principles equally comprehensive, and equally well calculated for the advancement of the general weal.
It is particularly pleasing to me to be able to announce to you that the revenues which have been established promise to be adequate to their objects, and maybe permitted, if no unforeseen exigency occurs, to supersede, for the present, the necessity of any new burdens upon our constituents.[40]
An object which will claim your early attention is a provision for the current service of the ensuing year, together with such ascertained demands upon the Treasury as require to be immediately discharged, and such casualties as may have arisen in the execution of the public business, for which no specific appropriation may have yet been made; of all which a proper estimate will be laid before you.
_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_
I shall content myself with a general reference to former communications for several objects, upon which the urgency of other affairs has hitherto postponed any definitive resolution. Their importance will recall them to your attention; and, I trust that the progress already made in the most arduous arrangements of the Government will afford you leisure to resume them with advantage.
There are, however, some of them of which I cannot forbear a more particular mention. These are: the Militia, the Post Office and Post Roads, the Mint, Weights and Measures, and a provision for the sale of the vacant lands of the United States.
The disorders in the existing currency, and especially the scarcity of small change, a scarcity so peculiarly distressing to the poorer classes, strongly recommend the carrying into immediate effect the resolution already entered into concerning the establishment of a Mint. Measures have been taken pursuant to that resolution for procuring some of the most necessary artists, together with the requisite apparatus.
A provision for the sale of the vacant lands of the United States is particularly urged, among other reasons, by the important considerations, that they are pledged as a fund for reimbursing the public debt; that, if timely and judiciously applied, they may save the necessity of burthening our citizens with new taxes for the extinguishment of the principal; and that, being free to discharge the principal but in a limited proportion, no opportunity ought to be lost for availing the public of its right.
G. WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, October 25, 1791.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES having retired, and the two Houses being separated,
Ordered, That Messrs. BURR, CABOT, and JOHNSTON, be a committee to prepare and report the draft of an Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech delivered this day to both Houses of Congress.
Ordered, That the Speech of the President of the United States, delivered this day, be printed for the use of the Senate.
WEDNESDAY, October 26.
RUFUS KING, from the State of New York, and JOHN HENRY, from the State of Maryland, attended.
THURSDAY, October 27.
The following message was received from the President of the United States:
_Gentlemen of the Senate and of the House of Representatives:_
I lay before you a copy of a letter, and of sundry documents, which I have received from the Governor of Pennsylvania, respecting certain persons who are said to have fled from justice out of the State of Pennsylvania, into that of Virginia; together with a report of the Attorney General of the United States upon the same subject.
I have received from the Governor of North Carolina a copy of an Act of the General Assembly of that State, authorizing him to convey to the United States the right and jurisdiction of the said State over one acre of land in Ocracock Island, and ten acres on the Cape Island, within the said State, for the purpose of erecting light-houses thereon, together with the deed of the Governor, in pursuance thereof, and the original conveyances made to the State by the individual proprietors, which original conveyances contain conditions that the light-house on Ocracock shall be built before the first day of January, 1801, and that on the Cape Island, before the eighth day of October, 1800. And I have caused these several papers to be deposited in the office of the Secretary of State.
A statement of the Returns of the Enumeration of the Inhabitants of the United States, which have been received, will at this time be laid before you.
G. WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, October 27, 1791.
Mr. BURR reported, from the committee appointed to prepare an Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both. Houses of Congress at the opening of the session.
Ordered, That to-morrow be assigned to take the report into consideration.
FRIDAY, October 28.
Agreeably to the order of the day, the Senate proceeded to take into consideration the Address reported by the committee, in answer to the Speech of the President of the United States, on the 24th instant, to both Houses of Congress; which report was agreed to, as follows:
To the President of the United States:
SIR: The Senate of the United States have received with the highest satisfaction the assurances of public prosperity contained in your Speech to both Houses. The multiplied blessings of Providence have not escaped our notice, or failed to excite our gratitude.
The benefits which flow from the restoration of public and private confidence are conspicuous and important; and the pleasure with which we contemplate them is heightened by your assurance of those further communications which shall confirm their existence and indicate their source.
While we rejoice in the success of those military operations which have been directed against the hostile Indians, we lament with you the necessity that has produced them; and we participate the hope that the present prospect of a general peace, on terms of moderation and justice, may be wrought into complete and permanent effect; and that the measures of Government may equally embrace the security of our frontiers and the general interests of humanity. Our solicitude to obtain which, will insure our zealous attention to an object so warmly espoused by the principles of benevolence, and so highly interesting to the honor and welfare of the nation.
The several subjects which you have particularly recommended, and those which remain of former sessions, will engage our early consideration. We are encouraged to prosecute them with alacrity and steadiness, by the belief that they will interest no passion but that for the general welfare; by the assurance of concert, and by a view of those arduous and important arrangements which have been already accomplished.
We observe, sir, the constancy and activity of your zeal for the public good. The example will animate our efforts to promote the happiness of our country.
Ordered, That the Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech, be presented by the Vice President, attended by the Senate; and that the committee which reported the Address wait on the President of the United States, and desire to be informed at what time and place he will receive the same.
MONDAY, October 31.
JAMES MONROE, from the State of Virginia, attended, and took his seat.
MOSES ROBINSON, from the State of Vermont, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the Senate.
Mr. BURR, from the committee appointed on the 28th to wait on the President of the United States, reported, that it would be agreeable to the President of the United States to receive the Address of the Senate, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, on Monday next at 12 o'clock.
Whereupon, the Senate waited on the President of the United States at his own house, and the VICE PRESIDENT, in their name, communicated to him the Address agreed to on the 28th instant, to which the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES was pleased to make the following reply:
GENTLEMEN: This manifestation of your zeal for the honor and the happiness of our country derives its full value from the share which your deliberations have already had in promoting both.
I thank you for the favorable sentiments with which you view the part I have borne in the arduous trust committed to the Government of the United States; and desire you to be assured that all my zeal will continue to second those further efforts for the public good which are ensured by the spirit in which you are entering on the present session.
G. WASHINGTON.
The Senate returned to the Senate Chamber.
FRIDAY, November 4.
STEPHEN R. BRADLEY, from the State of Vermont, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat.
WEDNESDAY, November 9.
OLIVER ELLSWORTH, from the State of Connecticut, attended, and took his seat.
THURSDAY, November 10.
JAMES GUNN, from the State of Georgia, attended, and took his seat.
FRIDAY, January 6.
CHARLES CARROLL, from the State of Maryland, attended, and took his seat.
MONDAY, January 9.
RICHARD BASSETT, from the State of Delaware, attended, and took his seat.
MONDAY, March 5.
The following Message was received from the President of the United States:
_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_
Knowing the friendly interest you take in whatever may promote the happiness and prosperity of the French nation, it is with pleasure that I lay before you the translation of a letter which I have received from his Most Christian Majesty, announcing to the United States of America his acceptance of the constitution presented to him in the name of his nation.
G. WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, March 5, 1792.
[Translation.]
Very dear, Great Friends and Allies:
We make it our duty to inform you that we have accepted the constitution which has been presented to us in the name of the nation, and according to which France will be henceforth governed.
We do not doubt that you take an interest in an event so important to our kingdom, and to us; and that it is with real pleasure we take this occasion to renew to you assurances of the sincere friendship we bear you. Whereupon, we pray God to have you, very dear, great friends and allies, in his just and holy keeping.
Written at Paris, the 19th of September, 1791.
Your good friend and ally,
LOUIS.
MONTMORIN.
THE UNITED STATES OF NORTH AMERICA.
TUESDAY, March 13.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the motion made yesterday on the Message from the President of the United States, transmitting a copy of a letter from his Most Christian Majesty to the United States of America.
A motion was made and seconded to postpone this motion, in order to take up the following:
"Resolved, That the President of the United States be informed that the Senate have received with satisfaction the official intelligence that the King of the French has accepted the constitution presented to him by the National Assembly, and are highly gratified by every event that promotes the freedom and prosperity of the French nation and the happiness and glory of their King."
It passed in the negative; yeas 6, nays 21--as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Bassett, Cabot, Ellsworth, King, Strong, and Wingate.
NAYS.--Messrs. Bradley, Burr, Butler, Carroll, Dickinson, Few, Foster, Gunn, Hawkins, Henry, Johnston, Izard, Langdon, Lee, Monroe, Morris, Read, Robinson, Rutherford, Stanton, and Sherman.
The original motion, being amended, was agreed to. Whereupon, it was
Resolved, That the President be requested to make known to the King of the French, that the Senate of the United States have received with the highest satisfaction the official communication of his acceptance of the constitution which, it is their earnest wish, may establish, on a solid basis, the freedom and prosperity of the French nation, and the happiness and glory of the Monarch presiding over it.
WEDNESDAY, March 14.
Ordered, That the resolution of the Senate, on the Message of the President of the United States, enclosing the letter from his Most Christian Majesty, be signed by the Vice President, and laid before the President of the United States, by the Secretary.
MONDAY, March 26.
A motion was made by Mr. MONROE, seconded by Mr. LEE, as follows:
"Resolved, That it be a standing rule, that the doors of the Senate Chamber remain open whilst the Senate shall be sitting in their Legislative capacity, except on such occasions as in their judgment may require secrecy; and that this rule shall commence and be in force on the first day of the next session of Congress;" and it passed in the negative--yeas 8, nays 17, as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Butler, Carroll, Foster, Hawkins, Johnston, King, Lee, and Monroe.
NAYS.--Messrs. Bassett, Bradley, Cabot, Dickinson, Ellsworth, Few, Gunn, Henry, Izard, Langdon, Read, Robinson, Rutherford, Sherman, Stanton, Strong, and Wingate.
WEDNESDAY, April 18.
The VICE PRESIDENT being absent, the Senate proceeded to the election of a President pro tempore as the constitution provides, and the Hon. RICHARD HENRY LEE was duly elected.
Ordered, That the Secretary wait on the President of the United States, and lay before him an attested copy of this proceeding, and that he notify the House of Representatives of the election of a President pro tempore.
THURSDAY, April 19.
Resolved, That the President pro tempore of the Senate, as a member, retain his right to vote upon all questions.
TUESDAY EVENING, May 8.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House of Representatives, having completed the business before them, are about to adjourn.
In conformity to the resolution of the 4th instant, the President pro tempore adjourned the Senate to the first Monday in November next, being the time appointed by law for the next annual meeting of Congress.
SECOND CONGRESS.--FIRST SESSION.
PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES
IN
THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
MONDAY, October 24, 1791.
This being the day appointed by law for the meeting of the present Congress, the following members appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats:
From New Hampshire, NICHOLAS GILMAN, SAMUEL LIVERMORE, and JEREMIAH SMITH.
From Massachusetts, FISHER AMES, SHEARJASHUB BOURNE, ELBRIDGE GERRY, BENJAMIN GOODHUE, GEORGE THATCHER, and ARTEMAS WARD.
From Rhode Island, BENJAMIN BOURNE.
From Connecticut, JAMES HILLHOUSE, JONATHAN STURGES, JONATHAN TRUMBULL, JEREMIAH WADSWORTH, and AMASA LEARNED.
From New York, JAMES GORDON, JOHN LAURANCE, PETER SYLVESTER, and THOMAS TREDWELL.
From New Jersey, ELIAS BOUDINOT.
From Pennsylvania, THOMAS FITZSIMONS, DANIEL HEISTER, and FREDERICK AUGUSTUS MUHLENBERG.
From Delaware, JOHN VINING.
From Maryland, JOSHUA SENEY, and SAMUEL STERRETT.
From Virginia, JOHN BROWN, WILLIAM B. GILES, SAMUEL GRIFFIN, JAMES MADISON, ANDREW MOORE, and ALEXANDER WHITE.
From North Carolina, JOHN STEELE, and HUGH WILLIAMSON.
From South Carolina, DANIEL HUGER, WILLIAM SMITH, and THOMAS TUDOR TUCKER.
From Georgia, FRANCIS WILLIS.
A quorum of the members being present, the House proceeded to ballot for Speaker, when it appeared that JONATHAN TRUMBULL, from Connecticut, was elected.
On being conducted to the chair, Mr. TRUMBULL addressed the House as follows:
GENTLEMEN: I find myself unable to express to you the full sense I have of the distinguished honor you have done me in the choice of your Speaker.
The diffidence I feel in my abilities to discharge, with propriety, the duties of the chair, is almost insuperable in my own mind. But, encouraged by the known candor of this honorable body, and depending, as I think I may confidently do, on the kind assistance of each individual in it, I shall enter on its duties, with full assurances to you, gentlemen, that I shall endeavor to conduct myself with that impartiality, integrity, and assiduity, which become the conspicuous station in which you have been pleased to place me.
The House then proceeded to ballot for a Clerk, when there appeared a unanimous vote for JOHN BECKLEY.
The oath to support the constitution was then administered to the members present, and the oath of office to the Speaker and Clerk.
Ordered, That the Speaker appoint committees until the House shall otherwise determine.
A message was received from the Senate, informing the House that a quorum of that body is assembled and ready to proceed to business; and that the Senate have informed the President of the United States that they are ready to receive any communications he may be pleased to make to them.
Resolved, That Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina, Mr. LAURANCE, and Mr. WHITE, be a committee on the part of this House, to act jointly with the committee from the Senate, to wait on the President.
Ordered, That a committee be appointed to prepare and report Standing Rules and Orders of proceeding for the House. Messrs. MUHLENBERG, TUCKER, WILLIAMSON, AMES, and SMITH, of New Hampshire, were named.
JOSEPH WHEATON was appointed Sergeant-at-Arms; and GIFFORD DALLEY, Doorkeeper, and THOMAS CLAXTON, assistant Doorkeeper.
Resolved, That two Chaplains, of different denominations, be appointed to Congress for the present session, to interchange weekly.
Mr. SMITH, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States, reported that the President would make a communication to both Houses to-morrow at twelve o'clock, in the Senate Chamber.
A message from the Senate announced the agreement of that body to the resolution of this House for the appointment of two Chaplains, and had elected the Right Reverend Bishop WHITE, on their part.
TUESDAY, October 25.
The following members appeared, presented their credentials, and took their seats: ABRAHAM CLARK, JONATHAN DAYTON, and AARON KITCHELL, from New Jersey; and ISRAEL JACOBS, from Pennsylvania.
The House proceeded to ballot for a Chaplain, when a majority of the votes were found in favor of the Rev. Mr. BLAIR.
A message being received from the Senate, stating that they were ready to receive the communication from the President of the United States, the Speaker, attended by the members of the House, withdrew to the Senate Chamber for the purpose of receiving the same.
On the return of the members, the Speaker laid before the House a copy of the Speech delivered by the President, (which will be found in the proceedings of the Senate.)
The Speech was committed to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.
WEDNESDAY, October 26.
President's Speech.
The House then went into Committee of the Whole, on the President's Speech, Mr. MUHLENBERG in the chair.
The Speech being read, Mr. VINING moved a resolution, of which the following is the purport:
"Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee that an Address should be presented to the President of the United States by the House of Representatives, in answer to his Speech, to congratulate him on the prosperous situation of the United States, expressive of the approbation of the House of the wise and prudent measures he has pursued during their recess, in the execution of the duties committed to his charge: promising speedy attention to the important and momentous objects recommended to their consideration, and expressing their approbation of the humane and effectual steps taken, under his direction, for the defence of the Western frontiers."
This resolution was objected to by Messrs. LAURANCE, SEDGWICK, SMITH, (of South Carolina,) and LIVERMORE, upon the principle, that it expressed the sense of the House upon points which required further information and investigation before the House could, with propriety, determine. It was difficult to say, before proper documents were laid before the House, whether the measures adopted for the defence of the Western frontiers were the most prudent that could be adopted. It was impossible positively to assert, that the President, in the execution of the duties assigned him in carrying into effect the excise act, had done all for the best. Every member that spoke agreed in expressing his individual opinion, that no doubt the President had acted with his wonted prudence and wisdom in the execution of the trusts reposed in him; but also agreed that it was improper, indeed, it was no compliment paid to the President, to approve, before a formal examination.
In answer to these objections it was observed, that so far as circumstances had been made known to the members, relative to the steps taken by the President during the recess of the Federal Legislature, so far they claimed the approbation of the House; and that the opinion of the House was only meant to be given as far as they were informed. It was urged, that the answer of the House should be a candid expression of their feelings; feelings which the prosperous situation of the country undoubtedly called forth, and which the issue of the measures adopted could not fail to excite.
Several modifications were proposed to the resolution, which was finally agreed to, as follows:
"Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee that a respectful Address ought to be presented by the House of Representatives to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress at the commencement of this session, containing assurances that this House will take into consideration the various and important matters recommended to their attention."
Mr. MADISON, Mr. LAURANCE, and Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina,) were appointed a committee to prepare an Address, pursuant to the resolution.
THURSDAY, October 27.
Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed, reported an Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; which was read, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House immediately.
Address to the President.
The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the said Address; and, after some time spent therein, Mr. MUHLENBERG reported that the committee had had the said Address under consideration, and made no amendment thereto. Whereupon, it was
Resolved, unanimously, That this House doth agree to the said Address, in the words following:
SIR: In receiving your Address, at the opening of the present session, the House of Representatives have taken an ample share in the feelings inspired by the actual prosperity and flattering prospects of our country; and whilst, with becoming gratitude to Heaven, we ascribe this happiness to the true source from which it flows, we behold with an animating pleasure the degree in which the Constitution and laws of the United States have been instrumental in dispensing it.
It yields us particular satisfaction to learn the success with which the different important measures of the Government have proceeded; as well those specially provided for the last session, as those of preceding date. The safety of our Western frontier, in which the lives and repose of so many of our fellow-citizens are involved, being peculiarly interesting, your communications on that subject are proportionally grateful to us. The gallantry and good conduct of the militia, whose services were called for, is an honorable confirmation of the efficacy of that precious resource of a free State. And we anxiously wish that the consequences of their successful enterprises, and of the other proceedings to which you have referred, may leave the United States free to pursue the most benevolent policy towards the unhappy and deluded race of people in our neighborhood.
The amount of the population of the United States, determined by the returns of the census, is a source of the most pleasing reflections, whether it be viewed in relation to our national safety and respectability, or as a proof of that felicity in the situation of our country, which favors so unexampled a rapidity in its growth. Nor ought any to be insensible to the additional motive suggested by this important fact to perpetuate the free Government established with a wise administration of it, to a portion of the earth which promises such an increase of the number which is to enjoy those blessings within the limits of the United States.
We shall proceed with all the respect due to your patriotic recommendations, and with a deep sense of the trust committed to us by our fellow-citizens, to take into consideration the various and important matters falling within the present session; and, in discussing and deciding each, we shall feel every disposition, whilst we are pursuing the public welfare, which must be the supreme object with all our constituents, to accommodate, as far as possible, the means of attaining it to the sentiments and wishes of every part of them.
Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, reported that the committee had waited on the President, who signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive the said Address at twelve o'clock to-morrow, at his own house.
FRIDAY, October 28.
The SPEAKER, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the President of the United States, and there presented to him the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to which the President made the following reply:
Gentlemen:
The pleasure I derive from an assurance of your attention to the objects I have recommended to you is doubled by your concurrence in the testimony I have borne to the prosperous condition of our public affairs.
Relying on the sanctions of your enlightened judgment, and on your patriotic aid, I shall be the more encouraged in all my endeavors for the public weal, and particularly in those which may be required on my part for executing the salutary measures I anticipate from your present deliberations.
G. WASHINGTON.
MONDAY, October 31.
Several other members, to wit: from Vermont, NATHANIEL NILES and ISRAEL SMITH; from Maryland, UPTON SHERIDINE; from North Carolina, WILLIAM BARRY GROVE; and from South Carolina, ROBERT BARNWELL; appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.
TUESDAY, November 1.
ANTHONY WAYNE, member from Georgia, and JOSIAH PARKER, from Virginia, took their seats this day.
THURSDAY, November 3.
Two other members, to wit, RICHARD BLAND LEE and JOHN PAGE, from Virginia, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.
FRIDAY, November 4.
Another member, to wit, EGBERT BENSON, from New York, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.
MONDAY, November 7.
Several other members, to wit: from Pennsylvania, WILLIAM FINDLAY; from North Carolina, JOHN BAPTIST ASHE; and from Georgia, ABRAHAM BALDWIN; appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.
TUESDAY, November 8.
Another member, to wit, ANDREW GREGG, from Pennsylvania, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.
John Torrey.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Report of the Secretary of War on the petition of John Torrey, administrator of Major Joseph Torrey, deceased.
Mr. AMES objected to the motion for accepting the Report of the Secretary of War. He said, it must be apparent that he was placed by accident in a relation to the subject in debate, which he should not have adopted of choice. With very little knowledge of the parties and their connections, and the interests that would be involved by the decision, he seemed to be considered as standing sponsor for the petitioner. He might justify this active support of the petition, by assigning motives which were common to other gentlemen; but as they have continued silent, I will assign a reason for speaking, which is peculiar to myself. Nothing excites a person to a more fervid defence of his opinions, than the supposed discovery that they are misunderstood, and the force of the reasons on which he had formed them unduly estimated.
Congress promised half-pay to the officers who should continue in service to the end of the war. This was afterwards made a commutation for half-pay. Major Torrey continued in service till September, 1783, when he died. The question is, did he continue in service to the end of the war? The provisional articles of peace were signed on the 30th November, 1782; but they were to remain without force till terms of peace should be agreed upon between Great Britain and France. This took place on the 30th January, 1783, and the ratifications were exchanged on the 3d February, 1783, at Paris. The provisional treaty between Great Britain and America was then a treaty of peace, and according to the words of that treaty was concluded. Accordingly, on the 11th April, 1783, Congress by a proclamation made known those facts, and the stipulations made, in regard to the periods when hostilities should cease, by the contracting parties to the treaty. Hostilities did cease, and before the end of April, 1783, all America was in perfect peace. The late hostile nations shook hands, our vessels sailed in safety, and by sea and land reconciliation succeeded to hostility.
But did all this put an end to the war? The children in the street would answer this question: they would say, it is peace when it is not war. Of all facts, the most notorious seems to be the state of war; and it is the fact that the war was at an end, (and not any after resolve of Congress,) that the commutation of Major Torrey was made to hinge upon. When the meaning of a bargain is disputed, it is usual to search out the intention of the contracting parties when it was made. Supposing, instead of interpreting a resolve of Congress, any twelve of this body had to try a case between two private persons; suppose that a man had given his note of hand for a sum to be paid at the end of the war. Would twelve of this House, or would any jury in the country say that the war continued longer than hostilities? In private life, a man would think it touched his character to refuse paying his note in such case. Surely a government ought to perform its promise with as much delicacy and exactness. Congress did not promise the half-pay, and afterward the commutation, on the condition that a man should serve till they should think proper to say the war was at an end. He depended on the stubborn fact that it did end, which no resolution of Congress could change; and not on the refining opinion when the officers might safely be discharged--for that we see might be differently formed, according to the different views of policy and safety at the time. An officer having this promise of Congress, has a right to this commutation on the cessation of hostilities, in pursuance of the treaty. If this is disputed, the meaning of the words, "the end of the war," should be decided as it was understood at the time of the promise. Will any one believe that the 3d November, 1783, was the term, after the state of war and all the treaties which put an end to it, had been long passed? If any doubt still remains, writers on the law of nations should be consulted. For the officer may justly claim an execution of the promise according to law; that is the umpire between Government and the people. On appealing to the law of nations, we find that war is defined to be "the state in which a nation prosecutes its right by force." "Peace is opposed to the state of war--an accommodation is proposed and conditions agreed on, and thus peace puts an end to war." "When the powers at war agree to lay down their arms, the agreement is the treaty of peace." "The general and necessary effects of peace, are the reconciliation of enemies and the cessation of hostilities; it restores the two nations to their natural state." Would any jury in this country say, that the matter of fact and the principles of law were not in favor of the petition? Apply these maxims of law to the case. The provisional articles of November, 1782, were of themselves nothing, it is true, but they were to constitute the treaty of peace, whenever Great Britain and France had agreed on the terms of peace. As these two powers did agree on the 30th January, and ratified the terms on the 3d February, 1783, then the provisional articles, to use the very words of the preamble, did constitute the treaty of peace; it was then a concluded thing; and peace in fact took place in the several parts of the world on the appointed days.
It has been said, that the preliminaries were no more than a suspension of arms--that the state of war still continues, until a definitive treaty. To this it is answered, that preliminaries bind the national faith; if violated, the perjured faithless nation would kindle a new war. By the law of nations there is not such a distinction as that which is alleged, between preliminary and definitive treaties. Let the authorities for such a distinction be produced by those who make it. But they do not exist--a truce does not put an end to a war--a truce is, however, a suspension of war for a specified term. At the end of this term, the war begins again, of course, without any fresh declaration. But a suspension of hostilities for an indefinite period, is not a truce, but a peace; especially if it is added, that it is agreed upon by the belligerent nations in consequence of a settlement of their disputes, and if it happens in fact that the war is not revived. Those who make so much of a definitive treaty, and so light of preliminaries, should consider that, on their own system, the former is a kind of defeasance which annuls the latter. But when the definitive treaty is signed, the preliminaries, which before were liable to be annulled, now become of force, and the treaty, now become indefeasible, takes its date from the preliminaries. Though this mode of reasoning has not much weight on my mind, it ought to have some with those who have set up the distinction which it is adduced to overthrow.
These are the reasons on which I have formed my opinion that the war ended in fact in April, 1783, when hostilities ceased by mutual agreement of the powers at war. My opinion is supported by authority much more reputable than any I can give to it. The law courts in this country have decided it judicially; cases of captured vessels, and the question of interest on British debts, have produced decisions in every State of the Union, unless I am misinformed, that the war ended in March or April, 1783. The courts in England, and in every country where the war spread, on trials of property, have made similar decisions. Major Torrey died in September, 1783; shall this body decide against the settled rule of all the law courts?
It remains to remove some objections:
It is alleged, that Congress have by various resolves fixed the period of the war, and have declared that the 3d November, 1783, is the term. If they had declared that it should be computed from the end of the world, it would not alter the truth of the fact. After declarations ought not to be received to change their own promises. But a declaration, or a dozen of them, made for another purpose, and not to declare the meaning of the contract, cannot on any principle be received to interpret it. It is not necessary, however, to contend against those resolves of Congress. They are irreconcilable with the former engagement to Major Torrey. In undertaking to reconcile them, I feel that I impose a task on myself, which is made heavy by the prepossessions of many of my friends; I believe the minds of gentlemen are perfectly fair, and well-disposed to doing the petitioner justice. But I hope I shall not be thought to intend any offence, when I remark that certain ideas, such as that this claim is cut off by resolves of Congress, and that on allowing it, confusion would take place in the business of the public offices, were started with the discussion, and they have remained so woven into the texture of the debate, that I think it hard to unravel them. It was soon manifested that there was a general disposition to vote against the petition. This opportunity for debate seems to have been accorded as of grace, rather than as a means of removing any existing doubts of their own. Having adopted these opinions, this is rather a form of refusal than a mode of inquiring; and it seems to have been chosen with every circumstance of decency, and with all possible steadfastness of purpose. Yet I will proceed to state, that the point whether the war was at an end when hostilities ended in April, 1783, being already considered fully, we are to look for other reasons than such as relate to the commutation, to explain the resolves of Congress which continued the service of the officers beyond the end of the war, and as late as November, 1783. A mistake seems to have crept in here. It seems to be supposed that the officers were engaged to serve to the end of the war, just long enough to secure their commutation. But the commutation depended on one thing--the term of their service on another. The former was their right at the end of the war; but they were to remain in service till dismissed, unless they should think fit sooner to resign. They held their commissions during the pleasure of Congress. Though when the war ended they had a right to the commutation, they had no right to say their service was at an end. They did not choose to resign: Congress, for wise reasons, did not choose to dismiss them. A foreign army was still in New York. They were sent home on furlough, but drawing pay, and liable to be called into the field. Congress, in their resolves, did not say that it was not peace, but in effect that it was unsafe to disarm. Gentlemen are not well agreed among themselves as to the end of the war. Some fix it at the definitive treaty of September 3, 1783; others at November 3. Their conclusions agree as illy with their principles; for if the definitive treaty put an end to the war, how can the same gentlemen say that the war was kept alive, on the journals of Congress, till November, 1783? Here, then, were Peace and War subsisting quietly together during two months.
The fears of making confusion by opening a door to many applications, seem to be groundless. A man must have died between the end of hostilities and November, 1783, to place a claim on the like footing. The living have had their commutations; they cannot come: and no other officer died in that period, as far as I can learn. I have inquired, and cannot find at the office of the Secretary of War any precedent which militates with this claim, or any reason to suppose that any similar one will be offered. The case is a new one; it stands alone, and probably ever will, and it must be decided on its own merits. Believing the fact to be indisputable that Major Torrey served to the end of the war, confiding in the principles of the law of nations, and the settled decisions of the Judicial Courts, I have endeavored to explain my ideas with perspicuity, and to impress them with force. I have said more than questions touching an individual will often be found to merit; but when public principles are construed to the prejudice of private rights, the debate cannot be treated too seriously.
Mr. BOUDINOT said, he differed in opinion from the gentleman in his construction of the business. He did not coincide in the idea that the decision of the present question should be on a strictly judicial principle. The petition is founded on certain resolutions and laws of Congress; and as there are certain established rules which have been observed in settling with every other officer similarly circumstanced, Congress cannot now with propriety break through those rules; to these they ought to adhere, till by the decision of some judicial court it shall appear that they are contrary to the rules of justice. [Here Mr. AMES requested Mr. BOUDINOT to point out the rules to which he referred.] Mr. B. referred to the report now under consideration, which was founded on a resolution of Congress, that the time for which the army was engaged should expire in November, 1783. This has been made a rule in all the settlements with the officers of the army.
The terms of the contract, between the officers and the United States, depended, he said, on the decision of the sovereign power; that was authorized alone to determine when the war should cease. That power was vested in the then existing Congress, who, although they entered into provisional articles in November, 1783, did not, however, think proper immediately to disband their armies or put an end to the war, as it was yet uncertain whether those provisional articles would be ratified by Great Britain, or a treaty of peace concluded between Great Britain and France; a circumstance which was necessary before those articles could be definitively binding. It was only when the definitive treaty was made, that Congress determined the period of the war. The army, when finally disbanded and paid up to that day, acknowledged, by accepting their pay, that it was then only the war ended; and, as far as was in their power, assented to the principle which he maintained, that the provisional articles had not before put an end to the war. Suppose that, on the arrival of the definitive treaty, Congress had not agreed to the terms, would the war have then been considered as at an end? Would not Congress have been in the same situation as before the signing of the provisional articles? It was necessary that Congress should, by a definitive act, determine when the war ceased. Congress had passed such an act; and the House at present cannot with propriety enter into a resolution to alter the period. The argument of inconvenience ought also to have some weight with the House; for if any alteration were now to be made in the law, it must have a retrospect to all the widows and children of deceased officers, who have received half pay for years past. Besides, many officers who have not hitherto considered themselves as entitled to half pay, would, in consequence of such an alteration, have a right to apply for it.
Mr. LAURANCE said, he doubted not the gentleman who supported the petition was fully satisfied as to the justice of the claim which he advocated with so much ardor; he begged leave to state his opinion, however, on the subject, in which he should differ from that gentleman.
The contract with the officers of the late army was, that those should be entitled to certain benefits who served to the end of the war. But Major Torrey was not thus circumstanced, as he died previous to the period when the war ceased, and left neither widow nor orphan to receive the benefit of the provisions allowed by law; his case is not contemplated by any existing resolution of Congress.
It is well known that hostilities ceased at the time of publishing the provisional articles which formed the basis for the treaty of peace; but can any man say that every soldier had a right on that event to demand a discharge? Surely not. The provisional articles had the peace in contemplation, but the army was not to be discharged till the articles of the definitive treaty were ratified by the belligerent powers. The army of the United States was, therefore, only furloughed, and Congress retained the power of recalling them into service; and had the officers and soldiers been recalled from their furloughs to take the field, it would have been a continuance of the same war; but if the definitive treaty had been signed, and hostilities had commenced the very next day, it would have been a new war, and would have been prosecuted on entirely new principles. The second article of the provisional treaty looks forward to a future period for a conclusion of the war; and he inferred, that the definitive articles being ratified, and the ratifications exchanged, alone constituted a termination of the war. Mr. L. added some observations on the legal ideas of Mr. Ames, in which he also differed from that gentleman; and concluded by expressing his approbation of the Report of the Secretary of War.
Mr. AMES's remarks were further combated by Mr. WILLIAMSON, Mr. DAYTON, Mr. HILLHOUSE, Mr. WADSWORTH, Mr. CLARK, and Mr. WHITE.
Mr. WAYNE was opposed to the report, and stated certain particulars to show that the army was not furloughed by Congress because it was apprehended there would be any further demand for their services, but because it was inconvenient to give them an absolute discharge at that period.
The motion for accepting the Secretary's Report was carried by a large majority.
WEDNESDAY, November 9.
Two other members, to wit: from Maryland, WILLIAM VANS MURRAY; and from South Carolina, THOMAS SUMTER; appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.
The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Governor of Maryland, enclosing a letter to him from WILLIAM PINKNEY, a member returned to serve in this House for the said State, containing his resignation of that appointment; also a return of JOHN FRANCIS MERCER, elected a member to serve in this House, in the room of the said WILLIAM PINKNEY: which were read, and ordered to be referred to the standing Committee of Elections.
THURSDAY, November 10.
The Census.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Schedule of the Enumeration of the Inhabitants of the United States.
Mr. LAURANCE had previously moved, that until the next enumeration the number of Representatives should be one for every thirty thousand persons.
Mr. DAYTON moved to strike out "thirty," before "thousand." This amendment was under consideration.
Mr. GERRY observed, that in all the decisions of the Legislature, we ought to follow as far as possible the opinion of the great body of the people. If this opinion should be found to be against the ratio of thirty thousand, the amendment ought to be adopted; but if we refer to the amendments, proposed by the Conventions to the constitution, we shall find that five States are in favor of one Representative to every thirty thousand persons, till the number should amount to two hundred. None of the propositions now moved as amendments to the motion of the gentleman from New York, amount to that number. Several others of the Conventions were of opinion that the representation was too small to secure the liberties of this country. This Government, said he, is a Government of representation; the people may control their Representatives, but their influence is small in respect to the Senate and the Executive, and still less over the officers of Government. On what then do the people depend for checking encroachments, or preventing abuses? On their Representatives? If these should be too few, or if they should fail them, they never can redress their grievances without having recourse to violence. If the number is small, a majority may be the more easily corrupted. On the other hand, too large a number will be attended with difficulties; a medium then is most eligible. An adequate number is absolutely necessary; and to show that one to thirty thousand would not produce more than an adequate number, he referred to the ratio of representation in England and France, in which there was a greater proportion of Representatives than in the Legislature of the United States.
He then adverted to the objection arising from the additional expense; but, he observed, after Congress shall have passed a few more of the most important acts, it is not probable that the public business will in future require that the sessions should be for more than four months annually; this would reduce the expense greatly, in the first instance; and, agreeably to a calculation, an addition of forty-seven members to the present number, would make the aggregate expense but about one-eighteenth part more than at present, supposing the sessions to be four months long. But he considered the objection on account of the expense as merely speculative.
Although Congress is not positively bound by the constitution to give one member for every thirty thousand inhabitants, yet he would ask, whether the citizens of the United States did not expect that this ratio would be adopted? and whether they would not consider it as an abuse of power, if Congress, instead of one to thirty thousand, should settle the representation at one to forty thousand? Eight States have already adopted the first article of the proposed amendments to the constitution: and if the House should either settle the number of the Representative body, as it now stands, or reduce it, or establish it at one hundred, perhaps they might, before the end of the session, be obliged to repeal their act--as they would be bound by the amendment, as soon as it is ratified by a sufficient number of States. If gentlemen thought it probable that the proposed amendment would be ratified by the several States, they ought already to consider it as a rule for their conduct, and be restrained by it, from giving less than one Representative for thirty thousand inhabitants. After the representation amounts to one hundred, Congress will, no doubt, have a right to fix it there, until it is increased by the ratio of one to forty thousand: but that is a power which, he presumed, Congress will not exercise; but that they then will establish some ratio, by which the increase of representation shall keep pace with the increase of population, until the House consists of two hundred members.
Mr. BOUDINOT was convinced of the propriety of striking out the word "thirty." The House ought to consider what would be an adequate number for doing the business of the Union; and that number ought not to be exceeded, except to answer some very valuable purpose. Business would proceed with difficulty, if the representation was so numerous as it would become by the ratio of one to thirty thousand. The present representation of the United States is in a ratio very different from that of one to thirty thousand; and yet he thought it fully adequate. From a rough calculation, the ratio of thirty thousand would produce one hundred and thirteen members; thirty-five thousand would give ninety-seven; and forty thousand would produce eighty-one. If the number once settled was to rest there, he would not be over anxious to oppose the increase; but if gentlemen would take into view the increase consequent on the next enumeration, they would find that the number will by far exceed the due bounds.
He thought the people of the United States would be duly represented, and to their entire satisfaction, if the ratio was set higher than thirty thousand; nor could he imagine that such an exact proportion, between the Representatives and the represented, was at all requisite to secure their liberties, or to do the necessary business of Government. This indeed might be the case, if the power vested in Congress was proportionate to their number; but, since the House would possess the same powers, whether it consisted of a greater or a smaller number, he thought the people equally secure in either case. The ratio of thirty-five thousand, which would produce ninety-seven members, would, in his opinion, be a very proper one. If, however, the people should think otherwise, they had it in their power to correct the mistake, by ratifying the proposed amendment. Their not having as yet ratified it, was to him an argument that they thought the ratio too low; or, at least, that they considered the question as doubtful. Some of the States, he observed, have postponed the consideration of the amendment; and eight only have as yet agreed to it. On the whole, the House might safely adopt the ratio of one to thirty-five thousand; for that the increasing population of the United States would ever supply a representation sufficiently numerous to answer every good purpose.
Mr. CLARK observed, that his objection was not merely on account of the pay of the members, but an increase in the representation would bring an additional expense on the people, by increasing the number of public officers; as almost every man would wish to see his friend provided for. The liberties of America could be in no danger from the present ratio of representation. The doors of the House are open, and the people know what their Representatives are doing.
Mr. STEELE was in favor of the motion for striking out thirty. In discussing the important subject before the committee, he observed that there were two inquiries to be attended to: What is the proper number to constitute a Representative body for the United States, and what ratio will leave the fewest fractions in the respective States? One member to thirty thousand, he conceived, would give too numerous a representation. According to the present number of inhabitants, it will almost double the present number; it will divide and diminish the responsibility, make the House too unwieldy, retard public business, and increase the public expenses unnecessarily. An adequate representation, he thought, would be comprised within a much smaller number.
Gentlemen have called our attention to the House of Commons of Great Britain, and the National Assembly of France; but God forbid that we should draw our precedents from such examples as may be cited from European representation.
He was opposed to thirty thousand as the ratio: it would, in fractions, throughout the United States, leave above three hundred and sixty-nine thousand citizens unrepresented. Thirty-five thousand he thought the most eligible number, as it would leave the fewest fractions.
Mr. LAURANCE agreed that an adequate number was the great object to be attended to; but he contended that the original motion would give this number more completely than a larger ratio: and it ought to be considered, that, before the next enumeration, it will not be probably more than one to fifty thousand. As to the increase of expense, he observed that the great objects being accomplished, the future sessions will be short; besides which, the compensation of the members may be diminished. But he considered a necessary increase in the expense to be fully counterbalanced by affording greater security to the liberties of the people. The firmness of a government depends on a strong Executive; but this Executive should be founded on a broad bottom; and the broader the basis, the more secure is the public freedom under a vigorous Executive.
The existence of the Union may depend on the fullness of the representation. The inequality in the proportional increase of the number of inhabitants in different States, ought also to be taken into consideration; for it is very probable that in a short time, while some of the smaller States had a Representative for every thirty thousand, others would not have one to forty thousand. He was governed by general principles, and not by any calculations of fractional numbers: the constitution contemplates the ratio he had proposed, and therefore he hoped the motion for striking out would not obtain.
Mr. GOODHUE observed, that the situation and circumstances of the Government of the United States are so different from those of France or Great Britain, that no parallel could be drawn respecting them. Nor is there an absolute similarity between this Government and those of the State Governments. The objects of legislation which come under the cognizance of Congress, are but few compared with those which engage the British House of Commons and the National Assembly of France. A much larger representation for them, and in our State Legislatures, is therefore more proper, than is necessary for us in the General Government. He doubted the opinion that a large representation was less liable to corruption than a small one: some facts appear to confirm the former sentiment. He did not consider the expense as a material objection, if an increase of the number be necessary to doing more ample justice, or for the greater security of the liberties of the people; but, as he thought this was by no means the case, he was in favor of striking out "thirty," in order to insert a larger number.
Mr. BARNWELL agreed with the gentleman last up. He should vote for striking out "thirty," in order to substitute the largest number that had been mentioned. Mr. B. entered into an abstract and philosophical discussion of the principle of representation in Government. The leading sentiment was, that a large proportion of Representatives is not necessary to obtain the best objects of legislation, in expressing the will of the people, or to secure the liberties of the constituent body. The great point, he observed, was, to combine the greatest portion of honesty with a due degree of activity. That number which would comprise a due proportion of these, would be competent to all the purposes of legislation, whether the number for which it legislates is ten thousand, or five hundred thousand. On this principle, he was decidedly against a large number, and in favor of a small one. Adverting to the British House of Commons and the National Assembly of France, with respect to the former, he said, their corruption is, in a great degree, owing to their numbers: as to the latter, he observed, that the National Assembly had acted, in his opinion, politically and wisely. They set out with a large representation, in conformity to the sentiments of the people at the moment; but, on experience, finding the number too great, they have reduced it from twelve hundred to about two hundred and fifty. He believed that the general sense of the people was against a large representation in Congress; the inconveniences experienced from numerous bodies in the State Legislatures have led several of the States to lessen the number. He instanced Georgia, South Carolina, and Pennsylvania.
Mr. BALDWIN was opposed to the motion. One Representative for thirty thousand appeared to him by no means a great representation. The opinion that, of late, had been so often advanced from the press, and in public discussion, for reducing the Representative branch in Government to a small number, he held to be full of dangerous error. He was sensible that the terms great and small were so merely relative in their signification, that it was difficult precisely to understand each other in the use of them. Perhaps they may most properly, both of them, be considered as extremes. No doubt representation, which of late seems to be used as the character of Republican Government, is a great improvement upon Democracy, or legislation by the whole body of the people. He could conceive that a representation might be so large as to partake of the evils of assembling the whole body of the people; but it was a very improbable and not a dangerous extreme: the other extreme was full of danger. These observations acquire much force, when applied particularly to the Governments of this country: enfeeble the representative part of them, and you sap the very principles of life. They stand on a different basis from the Governments which have gone before them, and may justly be said to be new experiments in government; time, as yet, has scarcely given room to judge of the probable issue; but this we may pronounce with much certainty--Let the principles of representation languish, and they have no chance of success.
It had not been found practicable to ground representation in the Federal Constitution upon any other principle than that of numbers; but extent of territory is unquestionably one of the natural principles on which it rests, and should if possible be regarded. One for thirty-four or thirty-five thousand may be deemed a proper representation in the Kingdom of France, or of Great Britain. The four millions which compose the United States, compactly settled where there was great sameness in the country, and pretty equally distant from a common centre, would be properly represented by a smaller number than in their present sparse settlement. But still further: the settlement of the United States is a fillet stretched along the sea-coast for seventeen hundred miles, comprehending as great a variety of climate and interests as one of the other quarters of the globe. It is difficult to conceive of a situation which calls for a greater extension of the principle of representation.
It has been said, that one for thirty thousand will make too large and unwieldy a body. He was sensible that was a point that did not admit of being determined by any conclusive reasoning; it was a mere matter of opinion; sound judgment only is to be used, time and experience will come on and confirm or correct the opinion. In such a case, it is wise to inquire how this has been judged of by others who have had a Representative body. In France, one thousand two hundred was not thought too great a representation in forming their National Assembly; and the number established by their new constitution for their stated Legislature was not two hundred and fifty, as the member last up had stated, but, if he had not been misinformed by the publications in this country, it was nearly seven hundred and fifty.
In the Kingdom of Great Britain, five hundred is not thought too great a representation: and can one hundred and thirteen, which is the greatest number contended for, be considered in this country as a huge and impracticable mass of representation?
It had ever appeared to him to be among the strongest marks of our youth and inexperience, that we grow wise too suddenly. He was afraid this instantaneous wisdom which sprung up so at once, and set at nought, or removed to the extreme of absurdity and folly, the deliberate and tried opinions of the most profound and enlightened among men, in circumstances peculiarly favorable to honest decision, will itself be left by time on that extreme.
The Federal Government, it must be admitted, is in fact pretty highly seasoned with prerogative; practice has already evinced the necessity, in many instances, of increasing it, by devolving much of the Legislative power upon the Executive Department, arising from the difficulty of making particular provisions and details in our laws, and accommodating them to the various interests of so extensive a country.
The other branch of the Legislature has many traits of a perpetual--at least of a very solid constituent part of the Government. He did not mention these as imperfections in the Government; they are perfections, if the other parts can be in due proportion: but it is surely a sound reason against taking positive measures at this time to diminish the Representative branch. For his own part, he was not well satisfied as to the intention. If there is any reason to apprehend that the Government will depart from the point on which it was first placed, he could scarcely suppose that any one could be honestly alarmed with the fear that the departure would be towards Democracy. He concluded, by expressing his hopes that the representation to the next Congress would be fixed at one for thirty thousand, as it had hitherto been, and that the motion for striking out would not prevail.
FRIDAY, November 11.
JOHN W. KITTERA, from Pennsylvania, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House to-day.
MONDAY, November 14.
A petition of James Jackson, of the State of Georgia, was presented to the House and read, complaining of the undue election and return of ANTHONY WAYNE, one of the members returned to serve in this House for the said State.
Ratio of Representation.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Schedule of the Enumeration of the Inhabitants of the United States.
Mr. FINDLAY declared himself to be in favor of one Representative for every thirty thousand persons. The opinion of the people should be the guide of the committee; that opinion, he conceived, to be in favor of the ratio he had mentioned.
The representation ought as nearly as possible to express not only the will, but to participate in the wishes and interests of the people. A large representation embraces these interests more fully, and is more competent to giving and receiving information. The objects of legislation are such as come home to the doors, to the feelings of every man; the Government ought therefore to secure the confidence of the people by a large representation. The expense he considered as trifling compared to the benefits--and the people expect and are willing to pay for being well governed, and having their liberties secured. An increased representation is an additional security against corruption. As to delays occasioned by a numerous body, he observed that the Representatives were chosen to deliberate and to mature every subject before decision; he instanced the advantages derived from the numerous representations in France and in Ireland; the former had framed a constitution in two years for twenty-six millions of citizens, and provided for securing the liberties of their country--and the latter had proved a successful barrier against the encroachments of the arbitrary power of England. He concluded, by asserting that the voice of the people was in favor of the amendment proposed to the constitution, which would give one Representative to every thirty thousand persons.
Mr. GILES said this subject had struck him in two points of view: whether Congress are not precluded from exercising any discretion on the subject? and whether, if they are not, it is expedient for them to exercise this discretion at this time? The ratio of representation is a constitutional, and not a Legislative act. He referred to the constitution, in which it is said that there shall be one Representative to every State; and, secondly, that until the enumeration, the number should be as therein appointed to each State. After the enumeration, the number is mentioned below which it shall not be placed; but there is a negative power to increase the ratio, and from this negative power, a positive discretionary power is inferred. But, he observed that Congress had precluded itself from a right to exercise this discretionary power, by sending out to the several State Legislatures an amendment on this very subject. This amendment he considered in a serious point of view; and had this idea been attended to at the commencement of the discussion, he conceived that it would have prevented the opinion from being brought forward whether it was expedient that any change in the ratio of the representation should take place. The idea of one to thirty thousand, he considered as fully settled in the minds of the people; and a change on the part of the Government would indicate a changeable disposition, and a mutability of counsels, which is but another name for weakness.
Mr. G. then took a view of the objects of legislation to the State Assemblies, and of those of the General Government. In the former, above one thousand persons are employed, though their attention is confined to their internal police. Those of the General Government, on the other hand, are on the great objects of the whole finance of the Union, a sum of more than eighty millions of dollars, &c., &c.
It is said that we shall want abilities, but I should be sorry if a representation of ten times the present number of this House should comprise the abilities of a single State.
He assigned different causes than numbers, for the corruption in the British House of Commons; among these were the frequent mortgages of the funds, and the immense appropriations at the disposal of the Executive, the mode of their elections, &c. A large number is not so easily corrupted as a small body.
An inequality of circumstances, he then observed, produces revolutions in Government, from Democracy to Aristocracy and Monarchy. Great wealth produces a desire of distinctions, rank, and titles. The revolutions in property in this country have created a prodigious inequality of circumstances. Government has contributed to this inequality; the Bank of the United States is a most important machine in promoting the objects of this moneyed interest. This bank will be the most powerful engine to corrupt this House. Some of the members are directors of this institution; and it will only be by increasing the representation that an adequate barrier can be opposed to this moneyed interest. He next adverted to certain ideas which he said had been disseminated through the United States; and here he took occasion to observe, that the Legislature ought to express some public disapprobation of these opinions. The strong Executive of this Government ought to be balanced by a full representation in this House. He hoped the motion to strike out thirty thousand would not obtain.
Mr. BOUDINOT closed the debate of this day by a few remarks, reinforcing his former observations in favor of an increased ratio.
TUESDAY, November 15.
Ratio of Representation.
The House again resolved itself into a committee of the whole House on the Schedule of the Enumeration of the Inhabitants of the United States.
Mr. PAGE addressed the Chair as follows:
Mr. CHAIRMAN: I can no longer refrain from expressing my sentiments respecting the question before the committee; not only because I wish if possible to remove the error which I think several members, for whom I have the highest respect, have fallen into, but because I feel myself more interested in the question than I ever was in any one I have had to decide on.
Sir, it gave me pain to find those worthy members calculating and coldly applying the rules of arithmetic to a subject beyond the power of numbers to express the degree of its importance to their fellow-citizens. I was distressed, sir, to find that, in their honest zeal for securing order, despatch of business, and dignity in respectability of members in the General Legislature, they used arguments which have been applied in other countries to the establishment of insolent aristocracies--in some, tyrannical despotisms--and in others, kings; those countries which were most on their guard with a semblance of a free Government.
Sir, the errors I wish to correct are these. They think that because it is proposed, by a proposed amendment to the constitution, to authorize them to interfere in the business of ascertaining and fixing the ratio of representation to the population of the States, that Congress ought, without any hesitation, to enter on that business; but I humbly conceive that Congress, as this is a delicate question in which their own weight and importance must unite with the weight and substantial interest of their constituents, ought to listen to the suggestions of delicacy, and leave its discussion to a disinterested convention of the States. I say it appears to me no small error to quit the plain path of legislation, marked out for us by the constitution, needlessly to wander into the field of political speculation respecting its supposed defects.
Let me, therefore, advise to leave the restriction of the numbers of members of this House to the people, or to some future Congress, which can see more plainly than can now be descried, the evils of a too numerous representation. By so doing, we shall avoid, if not an improper measure, at least a rash step--at least we shall stand clear of a charge of indelicacy, and deprive our enemies of the triumph they expected in the completion of their predictions, that Congress would never propose any amendments to the constitution but such as would be subservient to their own views and aggrandizement. Let us not give the enemies of our new Government cause to exult, and its friends to sigh and mourn. Let us not give our friends occasion to repeat what many have said, that so many of our citizens have been led away by theoretical writers on government, as to render it problematical whether the American States are not at this time as much indebted to the National Assembly for its remains of Republican principles, as France was to Congress, in 1776, for their first ideas of that liberty which they now enjoy. Let us not, in this moment of general exultation of the friends to the rights of man, take a step which may damp their joy, and lead them to fear that Americans, who were foremost in the glorious career of liberty, have stopped short.
But, not to take up the precious time of this House with relations of facts to show what was and is the opinion of our fellow-citizens on this interesting subject, I will only state a few arguments which have weight with me as being in themselves evident truths, viz: Our constitution being framed by the people, and introduced to us in their name, and Congress being the creatures of their will, spoken into existence by the word of their power, for Congress to lessen their weight, to diminish their importance, and to exclude them from as full a share in their own Government as can be consistent with the nature of it, and indeed from that share which they claim, must be impolitic and dangerous.
But, granting that the people wished not a greater share in the General Government than is proposed by the amendment, as it is impossible, in a country like the United States, that one man can be sufficiently informed of the opinions, wishes, and real interests of thirty-five thousand of his fellow-citizens, and therefore laws might be enacted contrary to the opinions, wishes, and interests of the people, in which they might nevertheless acquiesce, sacrificing their interests for the sake of peace and quiet to the wills of their Representatives, one thirty-five-thousandth part of their own number, what friend to his country would wish to see such a dangerous influence on the one hand, and such a blind submission on the other? How long could an enlightened people remain in such a state of insensibility and torpor? And what might not be the consequence of their awakening from their lethargy? If not an expensive revolution, an expensive repeal of laws. And here I will remark, that the smallest number of Legislators, and they, too, well selected for their wisdom and respectability, if unacquainted with their constituents, might pass well-framed laws, founded on the wisdom of other countries, and yet find them disagreeable to their constituents, and be under a necessity of repealing them; but this could not be the case, if the people had in that Legislature a sufficient number of Representatives on whose fidelity, attachment, and disinterestedness they could rely. This, sir, is a truth worthy of our attention--an ignorance of which, or inattention thereto, I suspect has been the occasion of much political evil in the world. Happily for France, the people had such a number of Representatives in the National Assembly as could engage their feeling, inform their judgment, attach their interest, and establish their confidence in their fidelity and disinterestedness; had that number been much smaller, it is probable France would never have been delivered from oppression by their exertions.
I know, sir, that many friends of our constitution thought that the convention did not pay a sufficient attention to the interests of their constituents, when they restrained them from having more than one Representative for every thirty thousand citizens. I know that there is a report that the people are indebted to their President, even for this share in their Government; and I believe, sir, if this report be true, that whatever has been so justly said of him, as compared to Fabius, to Hannibal, to Alexander, may be forgotten, when this instance of his wisdom, disinterestedness, and attachment to the interests of his fellow-citizens, will be more and more known and applauded, and be for ever engraved on the hearts of their posterity. Shall we, then, Mr. Chairman, the direct Representatives of the people, be less attentive to their interest, and that too respecting their share in the deliberations of their own House of Representatives, than the President of their convention was? I trust not.
I will not pretend to say, however, whether in an Assembly where attempts are frequently made to carry into effect the projects of monarchical or aristocratical juntos, the virtuous struggles of patriotic members may not produce mob-like disorders; but in an Assembly like Congress, where I should suppose no such question can be agitated; none which may not be discussed with temper and decency, such disorder need not be apprehended. I should suppose there would be less clanger of animosities and disorderly debates in Congress, amongst twelve hundred members, than in the British Parliament, if it consisted but of one hundred. Where we have all but one and the same great object in view, the happiness of our country, (not the interests of a particular body of men born with privileges insulting to the feelings and rights of freemen, nor the whims of an individual, born to trample on his fellow-creatures,) we can have no cause to be dissatisfied with one another.
Surely, sir, unless these gentlemen suppose the members of Congress void of sense, or of every idea of decency and propriety, they cannot suppose that even five hundred members would not be easily restrained within the bounds of order.
Mr. CLARK said, he did not rise to trouble the House with a lengthy discourse, for he had always believed that long speeches answer no valuable purpose. He meant only to offer a few remarks on what had been said in opposition to his former observations, and he hoped that, although the gentlemen contend for the ratio of 30,000 as the only basis whereon to found the liberties of the people, he should not be stigmatized with the name of an aristocrat for voting in favor of a large ratio. Hitherto he had not borne that character, and he could not suppose himself yet infected, unless he had caught the disorder since he became a member of the present House. Much has been said about the influence of the bank, and that bank directors are members of the House of Representatives. The bank (said he) is public property, and therefore he could not see the force of the gentleman's arguments respecting the dangerous influence of that institution, unless it was that he was displeased at the distribution of the shares, so much of the stock being held at New York and to the eastward, and so little at Conococheague. In the same predicament he viewed the other objections respecting the influence of speculators; for he did not know that any members of the House were speculators, neither could he see any danger from bribery.
In reply to Mr. FINDLAY'S observation, that more wisdom would be brought into the House by increasing the ratio, he asked whether this would not also bring in more folly? For the probability is, that the ratio of both wisdom and folly will increase with the increase of numbers, and likewise of honesty and dishonesty; and with respect to the smallness of the district, or that it was safer for a small number to send a member than a greater, he was of a different opinion, as he believed that if ever the practice of bribery should come into play in America, it would be easier for a Representative to purchase a small district than a large one. If ever the liberties of the people are endangered, it will not be by the smallness of the representation, but by the corruption of electors and elections. This is the door which Congress should guard in the strictest manner, and that will secure the people against corruption in the House.
A gentleman from Georgia has observed, that the disposition of a great many millions of dollars has been in the hands of a quorum of this House, of whom it requires only seventeen to form a majority. On this Mr. C. observed, that the old Congress, which was composed of a much smaller number, were intrusted with the disposal of larger sums, although there were sometimes only two members from the largest State, Virginia, and no complaints were heard of their conduct.
But there is an argument which ought to have weight in the present question. The Senate, although a much smaller body than this House, are fully competent to judge of our proceedings, and of the safety of the country. Indeed, (said Mr. C.,) it appears very evident to me that we are not in want of a larger number in the House of Representatives to debate any question, if it be considered how much has already been said on the subject now before us.
Mr. VINING expressed much surprise that the subject, which to him appeared perfectly definable, should have occasioned the debate to travel so widely from the line marked out by the constitution. The pendulum seems to vibrate between the numbers 81, 96, and 113; and should that pendulum rest on any one of them in preference to the others, he could not suppose that it would affect the liberties of America. Why, therefore, all this extraneous argument about a point of so easy decision? We are sent here to administer the Government, the first principles of which are already fixed, so that neither branch can encroach on the other. The Senate, the House of Representatives, the President, have each defined powers; and whilst those remain, I shall always believe the liberties of America are invulnerable.
Under this impression, Mr. Chairman, I shall vote for striking out 30,000, in order to accommodate the question to a medium. But I shall do this on different principles from some other gentlemen; notwithstanding, I at the same time confess that the ratification of the first amendment to the constitution ought to govern us in deciding this question. The spirit of the amendment appears to me clearly to imply that we should not suffer the number of Representatives to exceed one for 30,000. I am here, not as a person who shall exercise discretionary opinions, but judge by the letter of the constitution. And in this case we may increase the number, but we cannot make it less after the enumeration. In the mean time, until that enumeration is complete, the representation remains as it has been hitherto, which I believe may be about one member to every 40,000 or 41,000.
If we go upon theory only, I would enlarge the representation to its greatest extent, and hand down the principle to futurity, in letters of gold, that a very great representation--that Democracy is the very best Government that can possibly be devised, provided it were practicable to give it stability. Next to a government as free as theory could extend, we have the freest in the world--a Government of representation, which will increase with the population of the country, and the ten new States will always preserve an equilibrium; but if you increase it to an extreme, you may render it tumultuous, although it may be safe.
I cannot, however, see the propriety of comparing this to the Government of Great Britain, although that is called a Government of Representation, consisting of two Houses of Parliament, one of which is elective, the Lords are hereditary, and the King can do no wrong; and it has hitherto been, I believe, the next best Government, after our own, in the world. And yet we know with how much reluctance Ireland obtained a participation of the trade and commerce of Great Britain; although a FLOOD bellowed forth with the voice of liberty like a Demosthenes, still nothing could induce the British Ministry to give way, until the volunteers effected it. And have we not the volunteers, sir, in this country to protect our rights? Yes, sir, the American volunteers are perfectly competent to this service.
I am under no apprehensions from the stockholders of the bank, or the speculators in the funds; for it is their interest to have a wise and good representation. The people who are employed in the more simple path of agriculture, removed at a great distance, are not more interested in the security of the Government than the more informed stockholder. As an example of the discernment of the great commercial people of London and Bristol, I need only mention their choice of a FOX and a BURKE, for until a late day Mr. Burke was the champion of the people and the friend of liberty.
If our Senate should take any unwarrantable stride towards aristocracy, have we not the power to check them? No President can very well attempt it at any time hereafter; and we are perfectly secure in the present time from all suspicion of corruption.
Mr. HILLHOUSE said he had ever been a friend to a Republican form of Government, and God forbid, that he should ever give his vote for any measure that should endanger the liberties of his country. He was in favor of an energetic government, as that alone can secure the blessings of liberty. As to the dread of corruption in this House, which some gentlemen appeared to entertain, he thought there was no foundation for such an apprehension; at least as the idea refers to one or two hundred Representatives--two hundred he contended, were as easily corrupted as one. But the corruption contemplated was a mere matter of opinion; no facts, he presumed, existed in this country to justify a positive assertion; and as to foreign countries, it seems to be conceded that a larger number than any that has been mentioned is susceptible of undue influence. He then adverted to the restrictions on the President of the United States, and the Senate, in respect to the means of corrupting the Legislature. The constitution has also made provision to secure the independence of the members, &c. He then urged some difficulties which would be occasioned by a small ratio. He observed that the population of some of the States is nearly stationary: if a small ratio is now established, the consequence will be, when it is augmented, that the representation of those States must be diminished. This would be a measure that would be greatly disliked. With respect to the proposed amendment, he thought it was entirely out of the question, till it was ratified by three-fourths of the States. A very numerous representation would tend to weaken, if not destroy the State Governments, and, in the issue, would destroy the General Government. For, said he, they mutually depend on each other for support.
Mr. KITCHELL was in favor of a numerous representation. He thought the amendment proposed to the constitution ought to be the guide to the House on this occasion. He did not draw his ideas of what should constitute a proper representation, from the examples cited from foreign countries; nor was he actuated by an apprehension of corruption, as more applicable to a small number than to a large one; but when he considered the various objects, views, denominations, professions, callings and interests of the citizens of the United States, he was fully convinced that a large representation was necessary to embrace the wishes and answer the expectations of the people. He should, therefore, vote against the motion for striking out thirty thousand.
Mr. GERRY took a general survey of the arguments against the proposed ratio of one to thirty thousand. In noticing the objection from the instability of the State Legislatures, he said it was not owing to their numbers, but to the mode in which they are elected. Were the Senates and Executives of the several States chosen as those of the General Government, there would have been as much stability and consistency in their transactions, as in those of the Government of the Union. A gentleman had said that the proposed amendments to the constitution had been adopted with reluctance by some of the States which had accepted them. He called on the gentleman to produce his authorities for this assertion. A relative proportion between the members of the House and the Senate had been suggested; this idea had no foundation in the constitution. And he further observed, that the constitution has so completely guarded and secured the rights and independence of the Senate, that he could not conceive of the apprehensions of gentlemen, who appear to think that an increase of the members of this House will overwhelm that branch of the Legislature. In all events, the privileges of that body will remain the same. The States, it is said, have reduced their Representative Assemblies. This, so far from being an argument against the proposed ratio, was directly in favor of it. The diminution of the State Legislatures has been occasioned by the idea which the people entertain of the increasing importance of the General Government. The objects of legislation to both Governments are nearly similar; they relate to those important concerns which interest the feelings of every citizen of the United States; all the difference lies in the magnitude of their respective spheres of action. Hence, it must evidently be the wish and expectation of the people, that their interests in every point of view, should be fully and adequately represented in this House.
The resolution being again read, in the following words:
"Resolved, That the number of Representatives shall, until the next enumeration, be one for thirty thousand."
The question was taken thereupon and agreed to by the House; yeas 35, nays 23, as follows:
YEAS.--Abraham Baldwin, Egbert Benson, John Brown, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, William B. Giles, James Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, Daniel Heister, Daniel Huger, Israel Jacobs, Aaron Kitchell, John W. Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, James Madison, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Page, Josiah Parker, Joshua Seney, Upton Sheridine, Thomas Sumter, Peter Sylvester, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Anthony Wayne, Alexander White, and Francis Willis.
NAYS.--Fisher Ames, John Baptist Ashe, Robert Barnwell, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, William Barry Grove, James Hillhouse, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Macon, Nathaniel Niles, Theodore Sedgwick, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, John Steele, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, John Vining, and Artemas Ward.
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolution; and that Mr. PAGE, Mr. MURRAY, and Mr. MACON do prepare and bring in the same.
TUESDAY, November 22.
A memorial of the committee of the counties of Washington, Westmoreland, Fayette, and Alleghany, in the State of Pennsylvania, was presented to the House and read, stating their objections to an act, passed at the last session, imposing a duty on spirits distilled within the United States, and praying that the same may be repealed. Referred to the Secretary of the Treasury for his information.
Representative from Maryland.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the report of the standing Committee of Elections, to whom was referred the Letter from the Executive of the State of Maryland, containing the resignation of WILLIAM PINKNEY, a member returned to serve in this House for the said State; and also a certificate of the election of JOHN FRANCIS MERCER, in the room of the said WILLIAM PINKNEY.
The law of the State of Maryland regulating elections being called for, was produced and read; by which it appeared that the Governor and Council of that State were authorized to fill up vacancies in the representation of that State in Congress.
Some objections having been offered against accepting the report,
Mr. SENEY observed, that the case appeared to him to be so plain that he was surprised to find gentlemen objecting to an acceptation of the report of the committee. He then stated the whole process of the business, in the resignation of Mr. PINKNEY and the election of Mr. MERCER, in which the law of the State had been strictly adhered to. He concluded by saying, that two cases in point had already occurred in the State of Connecticut, and no difficulty respecting them had taken place in the House.
Mr. GILES said, that he was a member of the select committee which had made the report; and from an accurate attention to all the circumstances of the case, he was led to think the report a very improper one. From recurring to the constitution, he was of opinion that a resignation did not constitute a vacancy. The constitution speaks only of vacancies in general, and does not contemplate one as resulting from a resignation. Adverting to the British House of Commons, he observed that in that body there could be no resignation. This is an established principle. The people having once chosen their representatives, their power ceases, and consequently the body to which the resignation ought to be made no longer exists. From the experience of the British Government in this respect, he argued against a deviation from this rule. He showed from the constitution, that the Executives of the States who are empowered to fill vacancies, are not at all authorized to declare the existence of such vacancies; for, if they are to judge in the case, the whole power is invested in them of determining the whole business of vacancies--an idea that materially and essentially affects the privileges of the members of the House. He remarked that, even by the law of Maryland, the requisite steps had not been pursued by the Executive of that State. He concluded by saying that, if the principles he had advanced were just, he hoped the report would not be accepted.
Mr. SMITH (S. C.) had had his doubts on the report; but on more mature consideration he was convinced that on account of the inconvenience which would result from rejecting it, and from other considerations, it was proper to adopt it, but not without a full discussion. He then stated some particulars to show that the vacancy which had occurred on this occasion could not properly be called a resignation. Mr. PINKNEY had never taken his seat, nor the requisite oath. He said that there was no analogy between the Parliament of Great Britain and this House; the mode of issuing the writs originally, and of filling up vacancies, is essentially different. No part of the constitution prohibits a member from resigning, and for convenience it ought to be concluded that he may resign. The public interest may suffer extremely in cases of sickness or embarrassments, which may prevent a member from attending. This argument from the body's not existing to whom the resignation ought to be made, will apply to the President of the United States, whose resignation is expressly mentioned in the constitution. The objection urged from the Executives of the States judging of vacancies, he conceived had no great force, for Congress would finally judge in every case of election. It is uncertain how the practice of the British Parliament originated. Blackstone says nothing of resignations. When a member wants to resign in that Legislature, he gets appointed to some fictitious office which disqualifies him from sitting in the House. He thought it best to establish some precedent, rather than oblige members who may wish to resign to have recourse to some familiar method, by accepting of some appointment in the State which is incompatible with a seat.
Mr. MURRAY said he was in favor of accepting the report, both on account of propriety and conveniency. Vacancies may happen from various causes--by resignation, by death, or by expulsion--the Executive of the State is the proper judge in the first case. He stated certain differences between a resignation after a person has taken his seat, and a resignation before that event. In the former case Congress will of course give notice to the Executive of the State; in the latter, the Executive alone can take cognizance of the resignation. He stated the extreme inconveniency which would result from the ideas of the gentleman from Virginia, as it would respect the State of Georgia. He then stated several particulars to show that Mr. PINKNEY was not a member of the House agreeably to the constitution, and therefore the House cannot proceed with him as one. He said that we ought to be willing to derive information from the experience of every country; but he conceived that no precedents could be drawn that would apply in the present case from a country which had none, to one which had a constitution that so clearly defined and guarded the rights of the citizens. The custom which had been mentioned as obtaining in that country, arose from a wish to prevent a frequency of elections. From what had been offered by the gentleman from South Carolina, and the ideas he had suggested, he hoped the committee would be induced to accept the report.
Mr. WILLIAMSON said, that it appeared to him that the constitution contemplates that a member may resign. He read the clause, which says that no member of the Legislature shall accept of an office made during the time for which he was chosen--from hence he inferred that resignations were clearly contemplated.
Mr. GERRY said that he had heard nothing to show that Mr. PINKNEY had ever accepted of his appointment, and therefore it ought to have been expressed that he had declined; but, granting he had resigned after accepting his appointment, he asserted that nothing had been offered to prove that resignations might not take place in one House as well as in the other; and the constitution plainly expresses that a Senator may resign. The House of Commons originated with the Kings, who formed that body to control the Lords; and hence arose the prohibition against resignations, as they would weaken the body, and the expense of a new election would fall on the King. With respect to the Executive declaring improper vacancies, he observed that Congress was invested with full power to control the Executives of the States in respect to such declarations.
Mr. SENEY observed upon a distinction made by Mr. GILES between a resignation on the part of a Senator and a Member of the House, he supposed a resignation in either would equally vacate a seat, and that no difference did really exist.
Mr. SEDGWICK observed that, if a power of adjudication was vested in the Executives of the States to determine on a vacancy in cases of resignation, it would involve this consequence, that a power of judging of vacancies in all possible cases would be the necessary result. He thought the proposition involved the most serious effects with respect to the privileges and independency of this House.
This subject was further discussed the next day, and ended in an acceptation of the report of the committee, which was in favor of Mr. MERCER's election.
MONDAY, December 5.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill making appropriations for the support of Government, for the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-two; and, after some time spent therein,
Ordered, That the said bill, with amendments, be recommitted to Mr. LAURANCE, Mr. BALDWIN, and Mr. ASHE.
The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, accompanying his report on the subject of manufactures, made pursuant to an order of the House of the fifteenth of January, one thousand seven hundred and ninety; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Treasury of the United States, accompanying his account of receipts and expenditures of the public moneys between the first of July, and the thirtieth of September, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-one; which were read and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BENSON laid on the table a resolution for the appointment of a committee to join a committee of the Senate, to consider and report the most eligible manner of carrying into effect a former resolution of Congress respecting the erection of an Equestrian Statue, in honor of General WASHINGTON.
Appropriation Bill.
The House then, pursuant to the order of the day, resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, and resumed the consideration of the appropriation bill, Mr. MUHLENBERG in the chair.
In proceeding through the bill, the several items were separately considered and agreed to. Some occasional remarks were made; but no material debate took place. One amendment was proposed, by which the bill is made to express the several purposes for which the moneys are appropriated, instead of appropriating sums in gross, with a reference to the Secretary's estimate, for particulars.
The committee having reported the bill and the amendment, the House adopted the same, and recommitted the bill to the select committee, who had originally framed it, with instructions to new-model it pursuant to the sense of the House.
Mr. GERRY presented a resolution in lieu of one which he laid on the table on Friday last, making it the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to report to the House, on the third Monday of every session, an account of the receipts and expenditures of the public money appropriated during the preceding session, so far as he shall then have it in his power to state particulars; and if he be unable to give an accurate statement of the whole, at the time appointed, he is to complete it as soon afterwards as may be.
TUESDAY, December 6.
Resolved, That Mr. BENSON, Mr. GERRY, and Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina,) be appointed a committee on the part of this House, jointly, with such committee as shall be appointed on the part of the Senate, to consider and report to Congress the most eligible manner for carrying into effect the resolution of the United States in Congress assembled, of the seventh of August, 1783, directing that an Equestrian Statue of General WASHINGTON should be erected.
MONDAY, December 12.
The following Message was received from the President of the United States.
_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_
It is with great concern that I communicate to you the information received from Major General St. Clair, of the misfortune which has befallen the troops under his command.
Although the national loss is considerable, according to the scale of the event, yet it may be repaired without great difficulty, excepting as to the brave men who have fallen on the occasion, and who are a subject of public as well as private regret.
A farther communication will shortly be made of all such matters as shall be necessary to enable the Legislature to judge of the future measures which it may be proper to pursue.
GEORGE WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, December 12, 1791.
FRIDAY, December 16.
The Post Office Bill.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill "for establishing the Post Office and Post Roads within the United States."
[The following is a condensed view of the arguments made on striking out the section which gives to members the privilege of franking.]
When the bill under consideration is once passed into a law, it is presumable that no gentleman will ever ask a member to frank for him, as he cannot grant the request consistently with his honor; the apprehension entertained of the existence of abuses, and of their increasing with the increase of numbers, would be an argument equally valid against every law; for no law can be framed, as that the people will not find means to evade it. But still the Legislature will have the power of correcting the abuses, as soon as discovered, by passing new laws to check them. The committee who drafted the bill, had before them all the acts of the British Legislature, respecting the post office; they saw the abuses and how they had been remedied; and with such light to guide their steps, they had proceeded in the execution of their task. The privilege of franking they had introduced into the bill, upon mature considerations; to take it away would be leveling a deadly stroke at the liberty of the press; the information conveyed by franks, may be considered as the vital juices, and the channels of the post office as the veins; and if these are stopped, the body must be destroyed; it is treading on dangerous ground, to take any measures that may stop the channels of public information, especially of that which relates to matters in which the people are interested; to check the circulation even of foreign intelligence may be dangerous; but it is highly so, to deprive the people of information respecting the measures of the General Government; nor ought the members to complain of being obliged to read so many letters and petitions as come to their hands in consequence of the exemption from postage. If any gentleman thought this a heavy task, he ought to remember that it was only his duty, and a task which every member had undertaken when he accepted a seat in the House.
The privilege of franking was granted to the members, not as a personal advantage, (for in fact it proved rather a burden), but as a benefit to their constituents, who, by means of it, derive information from those who are best qualified to give it, as they are the persons chosen to administer the General Government. The members also receive useful information through the same channel. When the impost law and the excise law were under consideration, many persons who were better acquainted with the operation of such laws, transmitted to the House much valuable information on those subjects; and to such information the House ought ever to be open; as, on the other hand, the motives for adopting certain measures, ought always to be explained to influential characters in the different parts of the Union. Such conduct will produce the most salutary effects in reconciling the people to the measures of Government, when the principles upon which every law is framed, are explained to them, as well by the correspondence of the members, as by their debates, published in the newspapers. It is the duty of the members to disperse the newspapers among those people who cannot, perhaps, otherwise obtain them, under the protection of franks. Even along the post roads, the common packets of newspapers are not safe from depredation; but when once they get into the interior parts of the country, there is hardly any chance of their escaping; whereas, under the cover of a frank, they are sure to reach their destination in safety.
If the privilege were confined, during the session, to letters sent from and received at the seat of Government, and the members limited to their own letters, and obliged to write the whole superscription, the increase of the apprehended abuses would be prevented; if it were further restricted, by limiting to those letters only what are sent to or come from the State to which the member belongs, this would convince the people, that the privilege was intended for the benefit, not of the members, but of their constituents.
Further, it was observed, that every argument, which might be adduced in favor of withdrawing the privilege from the members of Congress, might be used with equal force in the cases of President, Vice President, and every other public officer, mentioned in the same section. If the allowance of six dollars per day was a reason for subjecting the members to the payment of postage, every public officer ought also, on the same principle, to pay for his letters, as they were all compensated with equal liberality. If abuses were apprehended from the members, others were as likely to introduce them as they; if an increase of revenue was contemplated, the postage of all letters to and from the President, the Vice President, the Secretaries of State, of the Treasury, of the Department of War, &c., would contribute to that increase; but, on the other hand, those gentlemen must have their compensations increased, if their letters were to be taxed; for they could not be expected to pay for them at their own expense. If the privilege can be guarded against abuse, with respect to those officers, it can also be guarded in the case of members of Congress.
The establishment of the post office is agreed to be for no other purpose than the conveyance of information into every part of the Union; and a greater portion of that had been conveyed into many of the interior parts of the country, by the newspapers sent by the members of the House, than could be conveyed by other means, excepting on the main roads on which stages go. That information had proved highly serviceable to the present Government; for wherever the newspapers had extended, or even the correspondence of the members, no opposition has been made to the laws; whereas, the contrary was experienced in those parts to which the information had not penetrated; and even there, the opposition ceased, as soon as the principles on which the laws had been passed, were made known to the people.
As long as the privilege can be thus used for the general advantages of the citizens, it ought not to be relinquished by the members merely through fear of its being thought a personal privilege; it might be confined to members actually attending the session; they might be obliged to write the whole superscription, and even to add the date. In short, the wisdom of the House, it was hoped, would prevent all the evils apprehended from it, and retain the advantages.
The question being taken on the motion, for withdrawing the privilege from the members, it passed in the negative; yeas 21, nays 35.
TUESDAY, December 20.
Post Office Bill.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for establishing the Post Office and Post Roads within the United States.
Mr. WADSWORTH moved an amendment, to withdraw the privilege of franking from the members of both Houses of Congress.
In support of this motion, it was said, that the grand security which the people of the United States have in their Representatives is, that those Representatives are subject to the same regulations as their constituents. In the article of postage, this was not the case. Congress, in this case, assume to themselves a privilege, which they refuse to the people; they took money from their constituents, and paid none themselves. The people viewed this privilege with a jealous eye, and could not be pleased to see it enjoyed by Congress, whilst neither the members of the State Assemblies, nor even the Governors were indulged in it. Congress enjoys only chartered rights; and all rights not expressly mentioned in the charter, are of course excluded. The constitution is their charter; the Convention, who framed it, had, no doubt, well considered the whole subject of privileges and accurately defined all such as they wished the Legislative body should enjoy distinct from their constituents. In the enumeration of those privileges, there is not a syllable tending to exonerate them from their share of the common burden of postage; they have no constitutional claim to such an immunity, and if they assumed it they would increase the burden on their constituents. The post office, if unable to maintain itself, must derive its support from other sources of revenue. Already the members of both Houses send and receive, during their session, as many letters through the General Post Office as all the other inhabitants of Philadelphia; those letters, if paid at the usual rates, would amount to half the postage of the United States. The number and bulk of the franked letters and packets excluded the newspapers from the mail, and thus prevented the circulation of intelligence; if the evil increased (and there was no probability of its being diminished, except by the utter abolition of the privilege) it would eventually prove the ruin of the post office. The example of Britain showed to what an enormous height the abuse of such a privilege may be carried; and though similar abuses may not as yet have taken place here, yet it could hardly be doubted that many unnecessary letters were daily sent by the post, which never would have been written if subject to postage; those letters are not only unproductive, but an actual expense to the post office, as the postmaster receives a certain percentage on these, as well as upon other letters. The privilege of franking is moreover unequal in its operation; while some members use it only for the purpose of transmitting political information to their constituents, others, absent perhaps during the whole session, use it for very different purposes: to men in trade it was a considerable advantage, amounting probably, in some instances, to a hundred dollars a year. It would be better to take away the privilege entirely, and reduce the general rates of postage one-half, or to allow the members, at the close of each session, to make a charge for all letters on public business, from their constituents, or to make them an allowance in gross to defray the expense of postage; better, even, if necessary, to make an addition to the compensation which the members receive for their services, if the present one be found incompetent to their honorable support.
On the other hand, it was observed, that the privilege of franking was not assumed by the members for their own private accommodation, but for the benefit of their constituents, to transmit to them every necessary information respecting the operations of the General Government, and to receive from them such information as they might have to communicate. Petitions are frequently enclosed to members; and if these were to be subject to the payment of postage, the privilege of petitioning the House, would be in a great measure destroyed. The diminution of revenue which the post office might in some instances suffer from the privilege of franking, ought not to be deemed a sufficient reason for abolishing that privilege; since it is allowed, that the object contemplated in the establishment was the general convenience, and an easy and speedy mode of disseminating public and private intelligence. Revenue was but a secondary consideration. Although the citizens who live at the seat of Government, and have daily opportunities of learning from the newspapers what public measures are going forward, may not be materially affected by the abrogation of the privilege, yet the case would be widely different with those who live at a distance, especially when fiscal operations were on foot; those who are informed, will make a prey of those who are ignorant, and destructive speculation will enrich the few, at the expense of the many. In a government of opinion (which is the Government of America) much greater reliance is to be placed on the confidence of the people than upon any other circumstance: that confidence can only be the result of the fullest information; but if the privilege of franking were taken away, the avenues of information would be, in a great measure, closed, for the members could not undertake, at their own private expense, to transmit intelligence to every part of the Union; yet the citizens have a right to expect information, not only of the acts of Government, but also the principles upon which they were grounded. The abuses of the privilege, that have prevailed in England, do not prevail here; and its abolition would give general dissatisfaction, particularly in the more distant parts of the Union, where information would be subject to a very high tax, if circulated through the post office, at the ordinary rates of postage. Of those bundles of letters received and dispatched by members of Congress, many (though far from being unnecessary, as had been said) would perhaps never be written, if they were not to pass free of postage; and thus that free communication of sentiment between the Representative and constituent, which is so essential in a Government like this, would be in a great measure cut off; and the post office would gain little or nothing by it, as those packets of newspapers, bills, reports, &c., would either be sent by private hand, or not sent at all; even here an inequality would prevail, as the people who live near the seat of Government, and all along the main road, could, from the greater frequency of opportunities, receive such packets with more ease and regularity, whilst those in more remote situations could seldom or never receive them, unless by the mail. The expense arising from the percentage to the postmaster on the free letters, is but trifling, as in such cases he receives no more for a packet of two ounces than for a single letter; and as to the idea of allowing the members to make a charge for their letters, this would be no better than receiving with one hand and paying away with the other. If, however, it were found absolutely necessary to take precautions against the abuses that were apprehended, this might be done by limiting the number or weight of letters that should go free by any one post, without entirely preventing the interchange of sentiments between the Representative and his constituents.
The committee then rose, without taking the question on the amendment.
THURSDAY, December 22.
Election of President, &c.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act relative to the election of a President and Vice President of the United States, and declaring the officer who shall act as President, in case of vacancies in the offices both of President and Vice President."
The bill was read by the Clerk. The first section being again read by the Chairman,
Mr. TUCKER moved to amend this clause by striking out these words, "except in cases in which an extraordinary election of President and Vice President shall take place, as hereinafter specified." This motion was agreed to.
Mr. SEDGWICK made some general observations on the great objects of the bill, and adverting to the term proposed for the choice of Electors of President and Vice President, observed that he had his doubts whether it would not be best to give a longer time. He enlarged on the disagreeable consequences which would probably ensue, in case there should not be a choice by the Electors; as the matter must then be determined by the House, voting according to the constitution, by States. He descanted on the pernicious consequences which might result from the collision of parties, and the working of passions in the breasts of men whose ardor would probably be excited to the greatest degree on such an occasion; every reasonable measure should be adopted to prevent the evils which he deprecated; he therefore moved that the words "thirty days" should be struck out, in order to give the people a longer time to give in their votes for Electors.
Mr. WHITE objected to the motion. He conceived it was calculated to produce the very mischiefs the gentleman appeared to deprecate. If it had been possible, he could have wished that the Electors should meet and give in their votes on the very day of their being chosen; he wished as much as the gentleman to adopt measures to prevent the evils he mentioned; but did not think the motion would conduce to that object; he thought the time should rather be contracted than extended.
Mr. DAYTON also objected to the motion; he thought fourteen days would be a more proper time; it was the design of the constitution, though it is not expressed, that the President should not know the characters to whom he is indebted for his election.
Mr. SEDGWICK observed, that the objections would be very proper was it certainly known that the Electors would always agree in a choice; but this he conceived, it was hardly possible should always be the case; and what will then take place? The election devolves on this House, and the Electors will then be known, and liable to all that intrigue and cabal which has prevailed in other countries. He left it to the consideration of the committee to determine on the immense importance of providing in season against the evils of a contested election, in the case now before them.
Mr. BALDWIN objected to the motion; but said if it was struck out, he should then move to insert a clause which should assign different periods according to the circumstances of the several States, so that the Electors should meet as nearly as possible at the same time in all the States.
Mr. NILES objected to the motion; and the question being put it was negatived.
The clause which makes it the duty of the Executive of the several States to cause the names of the Electors to be certified, was objected to.
Mr. NILES observed that no person could be called upon to discharge any duty on behalf of the United States, who had not accepted of an appointment under their authority. He thought that this was opening the door too wide, and involves a blending of the respective powers and duties of each, which is not warranted by the constitution; and he observed that he should be sorry that the Government of the United States should attempt to exercise a power which they are not competent to carry into execution. He moved that the clause should be struck out.
Mr. SEDGWICK observed that if Congress were not authorized to call on the Executives of the several States, he could not conceive what description of persons they were empowered to call upon.
Mr. NILES said he considered this section as degrading to the Executive of the several States; and inquired, what is to be done in case those Executives should refuse to comply with the requisition?
Mr. CLARK said, it appeared to him that the committee was creating difficulties where none before existed. He observed that the choosing these Electors was a privilege conferred on the people, and that this was merely pointing out the mode of exercising this privilege; he thought the clause stood very well and would create no uneasiness whatever.
Mr. HILLHOUSE said, he considered the provision improper. It imposed a duty on the Supreme Executives of the several States, which they might or might not execute; and thus the necessary certificates may not be made. He seconded the motion to strike out the clause, and proposed a substitute making it the duty of the Electors to procure for themselves the necessary certificates.
Mr. LIVERMORE spoke in favor of the clause; he did not consider it either as an undue assumption of power, or degrading to the Executives of the respective States.
Mr. BARNWELL said, a small addition to the clause would in his opinion obviate every difficulty; the words he proposed to insert were--"or such person as the Executive may appoint."
Mr. STURGES moved to strike out "Executive," and insert "the Legislature."
Mr. J. SMITH said, it appeared to him that the proposed alteration would amount to exactly the same thing; for the duty of giving the certificate would eventually devolve on the Executive.
The motion for striking out the clause was negatived.
The ninth section provides, that in case of vacancies in the offices of President and Vice President, the President of the Senate pro tem., or the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall act as President.
Mr. WHITE moved the section should be struck out. He said the House had formerly discussed the subject and could not agree; the first part of the bill is necessary; this is not of immediate importance to be attended to.
Mr. FITZSIMONS said, he supposed the question must be determined some time or other, and he knew of no reason why it should not be decided at this time; to strike out the clause would, in effect, be to declare that the House could not agree.
Mr. WILLIAMSON was in favor of striking out.
Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the motion; he said no two subjects could possibly be more intimately connected; and the provisions of the bill are such as to render the intermission, during which this regency was to take place, as short as possible; he hoped the clause would not be stricken out.
Mr. WHITE added some further objections to the section; he said it was distinct from the bill, and though a majority of the committee were in favor of the characters nominated, yet he thought it would be best to make it the object of another bill, and of an independent discussion.
Mr. SEDGWICK said, he hoped the section would not be struck out, especially if there is a majority of the committee in favor of it. He observed, that last session there was no decision in the case; he conceived it necessary that the business should be now decided on; and adverting to the particular characters named, he said they were as far removed from any influence of the Executive as any persons that could be possibly pointed out.
Mr. BARNWELL was in favor of going into a discussion of the subject at this time. He said there was a large number of the present House who had not heard the observations offered in the last Congress; he supposed the present as proper a time to consider the subject as any that could occur. If gentlemen who are opposed to the section will offer their objections, he should be glad to hear them; if they were conclusive, he should vote to strike out the section. If nothing was offered, he should vote against the motion.
Mr. STURGES mentioned several objections to the section, which in his opinion rendered it unconstitutional; he could not find that the Speaker of the House, or President of the Senate pro tem. were officers of the Government in the sense contemplated by the constitution. The compensations of the President and Vice President are settled by the House; the Speaker would have to decide on those compensations; this he said rendered him evidently improper. He further observed that the consequence would be caballing and electioneering in the choice of Speaker.
Mr. WHITE said, the Speaker was not a permanent officer, if he could be considered as one in any point of view; but he was of opinion, that he was no more an officer of the Government than every other member of the House.
The question for striking out the section was negatived.
Mr. STURGES then moved to strike out the words, "the President of the Senate pro tempore, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives."
Mr. GILES stated the reasons which he conceived fully proved the unconstitutionality of the clause. The characters referred to he did not think were officers. If they had been considered as such, it is probable they would have been designated in the constitution; the constitution refers to some permanent officer to be created pursuant to the provisions therein contained. These persons are not permanent; a permanent officer was contemplated; the subject was not to be left to any casuality, if it could possibly be prevented.
Mr. SEDGWICK said, he did not know what officer could with propriety be said to be permanent; offices are held during good behavior in some instances, and in others during pleasure; but it will be impossible to say that any officer is a permanent officer, for the expression is very extensive. He was surprised to hear the idea controverted, that the Speaker of the House, or the President of the Senate pro tem., is not an officer. In common parlance he was sure there was no difficulty in the matter.
Mr. GERRY observed, that some gentleman had said the Speaker is not an officer; but if he is not an officer, what is he? He then read a clause from the constitution, which says that the House shall choose their Speaker and other officers. He hoped, however, that the Speaker of the House of Representatives would be struck out, in order to avoid blending the Legislative and Executive branches together. He considered this measure as a political stroke of the Senate; but he hoped that the House would never consent to making their Speaker an amphibious animal. He moved therefore that the words "Speaker of the House of Representatives" should be struck out.
Mr. HILLHOUSE objected to any officer appointed by the Executive being inserted. He said, if that should be the case, the appointments would in most cases be made with reference to that object; and hence important offices would often be filled with improper and incompetent persons. Besides, it was taking away the choice from the people, and thus violating the first principle of a free elective Government. The Senate are appointed by the people, or their Representatives, and hence, in his opinion, filling the vacancy would devolve with the greatest propriety on that body.
Mr. WILLIAMSON was in favor of the motion for striking out both the characters. He observed, that this extensive construction of the meaning of the word officer, would render it proper to point out any person in the United States, whether connected with the Government or not, as a proper person to fill the vacancy contemplated.
Before taking the question upon the amendment, the committee rose.
TUESDAY, January 10.
A memorial of George Turner, one of the Judges in and over the territory of the United States north-west of the Ohio, was presented to the House and read, praying a revision of the ordinance for the government of the said territory, and also an increase of compensation to the Judges thereof. Referred to Mr. LIVERMORE, Mr. LAURANCE, Mr. WHITE, Mr. WILLIAMSON, and Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina); that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.
On a motion made and seconded,
"That the Secretary of War be instructed to lay before this House an accurate statement of all ascertained balances of pay, which appear by the books of the United States to be due to the officers and soldiers of the late Army of the United States, and which still remain either unclaimed, or claimed and unpaid, together with the reasons for withholding payment from those who may have respectively entered claims therefor;"
Ordered, That the said motion be referred to Mr. WADSWORTH, Mr. GILES, and Mr. SMITH, (of New Hampshire;) that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.
The House proceeded to fill up the remaining blanks in the bill to establish the Post Office and Post Roads of the United States; which was then read a third time and passed.
Petition of Catharine Greene.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of Catharine Greene, relict of the late General Greene.
The object of the petition is to obtain an indemnification from the United States against certain engagements which were entered into by her husband, the deceased Major General Nathaniel Greene, while commanding officer in the Southern department; and for the circumstances on which it is founded, refers to a representation of the 22d August, 1785, which was then made by the said General Greene to Congress.
The petition is accompanied by a number of vouchers, arranged in alphabetical order by the Secretary of the Treasury in his Report; from all which he draws the following conclusion:
"That strong and extraordinary motives of national gratitude for the very signal and important services rendered by General Greene to his country, must serve to give a keener sting to the regret, which ought ever to attend the necessity of a strict adherence to claims of public policy, in opposition to claims founded on useful acts of zeal for the public service, if no means of protecting from indigence and penury the family of that most meritorious officer shall, upon examination, be found admissible."
Mr. WAYNE rose and gave his reasons for supporting the petition, as follows:
Mr. Chairman: It may not be improper to mention the motives that impel me to wish a fortunate issue to the claim now under consideration of this committee, which I must also offer as an apology for the part I have taken, or that I may eventually take, in support of the claim. From my first interview with General Greene until the moment of his dissolution, we always lived in the strictest habits of friendship and confidence. He was an officer with whom I had participated in almost every vicissitude of fortune, (in many a well-tried field,) from the frozen waters of the North to the burning sands of the South. He was a man whose virtues and talents I knew and revered; his noble soul would have revolted at the idea of imposition. He never would have offered in a claim to Congress, but upon the purest principles of honor and justice. I was a witness to the pressing necessity that compelled him to become the surety, for which indemnity is now claimed. He did what I would have done, (as second in command,) had he been absent at that trying crisis. The claim I know to be just, and I am decidedly of opinion that he was drawn into that security from the situation in which he was placed by Congress, as Commander-in chief of the Southern Department. Under these impressions, I beg leave to submit to the consideration of this committee the resolutions now in my hand, and doubt not of their concurrent support.
"Resolved, as the opinion of this Committee, That the estate of the late Major General Nathaniel Greene ought to be indemnified for and on account of the engagements entered into by that General with certain persons in the State of South Carolina, for the purpose of obtaining supplies for the American Army, in the year 1783, and that ---- be granted to the Executors of the estate of the late Major General Nathaniel Greene, for that purpose.
"Resolved, That a committee be appointed to bring in a bill in conformity to the foregoing resolution."
Mr. BOUDINOT said, there was no greater friend to the memory of General Greene than he was, nor any person more anxious to have justice done to his widow and family; but he was apprehensive that the resolution proposed by the worthy gentleman who had first brought forward this subject was not drawn up in such a manner as to ensure it a passage through both Houses of Congress. He wished, therefore, that it should be so expressed as to prevent any tedious discussion, and at the same time do ample justice. The Report of the Secretary of the Treasury puts the subject on the best footing. The motives which led him to make the contract were, first, the public good; and perhaps, secondly, to serve his friend, Mr. Burnett, because he was his aide-de-camp, and he wished to put him in the way of being established in business after the war; but Mr. Burnett was never in any other way connected with General Greene than as a young man brought up in the family, whom he wished to patronize.
After a few other observations, Mr. BOUDINOT moved to strike out the preamble of the resolution proposed by Mr. WAYNE, and to adopt words nearly in substance as follows:
"Resolved, That it is becoming the dignity of Congress to make compensation for the widow and orphans of the late Major General Greene, who so gloriously served his country; and that they be indemnified for the loss which his estate is likely to sustain by his having entered into certain bonds for supplying the Southern army with rations and clothing, at a time when they were threatening to disperse."
Mr. FINDLAY observed, that on the question as it is now stated, the committee have a choice of three alternatives; the claim may be rejected, a pension or gratuity may be granted to the amount, or the claim of the petition may be granted as a matter of right, upon the footing of its own merits by a special law, as all authorized claims which Congress grant are given. Claims for which the standing laws are competent, do not come before us. I am in favor of the last alternative. I am against rejecting the petition; because, as the facts are stated in the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury, General Greene putting himself in this situation of risk was from the most public-spirited motive; it was to support the public interest at a most important crisis, when the well-being, if not the existence of the Southern army was at stake, as well as the security of the inhabitants. If a commander-in-chief of an army may be ruined in his private affairs by making an unauthorized exertion to save his army or his country, the precedent may be dangerous; it may teach commanders lessons of prudence, which may have ruinous effects. It is true the necessity of the case must be such as will justify the unauthorized measure: from the Report, this appears to have been the case in the subject of the present debate. From the whole state of the facts before us, General Greene appears not to have had his own interest in view in this transaction, if the proof of this only lay between Banks and him. The established character of General Greene, not only as an officer, but as a man of integrity and public spirit, certainly cannot sink when laid in the balance with the secret insinuation of an unprincipled speculator. Such has been my own opinion of General Greene's character, that I would certainly require other proofs than this before I would even indulge suspicions: but it does not rest upon this. We have Banks's own testimony to the contrary, and his partner, and we know it would have been the interest of Banks & Co. to have made the contrary appear: nay, we have such a cloud of witnesses, all concurring to the same point, as appears sufficient to remove doubts from the most scrupulous mind. Unauthorized accounts are admitted in settlements between the United States and the individual States, upon the principles of equity. I consider this as a case of the same nature, and will vote for it agreeably to this precedent. I consider granting the prayer of the petition in this manner, as an act of justice, not only to his estate, but to the memory of his character. But I object to granting the relief in the indirect way of a pension; it is not so safe to the public, nor so honorable to the heirs of General Greene. To the public it is highly dangerous as a precedent; it will operate as an opening wedge to other claims without limitation. Few indeed can have an unauthorized though just claim as commanders-in-chief of an army reduced to such a dilemma as originated the present question; but merit and distress are not confined to commanders alone; they are to be found in every rank of citizens. The struggles during the late revolution produced abundance of merit; we cannot look around in this House, nor in any large collection of citizens, but our eye meets with those who have claims of merit. We can scarcely be acquainted in any neighborhood, but we must be acquainted with such as have been reduced to distress by their meritorious exertions, either in the camp, in the cabinet, or by granting supplies. How many who have aided the public with their substance, have been obliged to part with the evidences of their meritorious claims for a temporary relief. Many of the aged, many widows and orphans, to my knowledge, labor in penury, and mourn in secret, on the account of such meritorious aids not being recompensed when they ought to have been; though this was owing to the public misfortune, yet the merit and sufferings were not the less. I am very sensible of the great merit of General Greene; it is so well known, and so generally acknowledged, on all hands, as to render it improper for me to enlarge thereon. But, superior as his merit was, if we grant a pension or relief not founded on a just claim, merit of a lower order must be also admitted: there is no distinguishing the shades. I have heard of claims on the footing of merit brought before Congress, supported by such arguments as would induce a stranger to think that nearly all the merit of accomplishing the revolution was centred in the claimant. If merit is to be rewarded by pensions, we shall soon have claimants in abundance. In the exercise of supreme command, difficulties often arise which render exertions necessary for which general rules cannot be provided; these have been generally treated as objects of indemnification. Many claims are now before Congress; they are various in their nature, and no doubt a number of them will be admitted; but from every view I have taken of the claim before us, I think the present as strongly addresses our justice and sympathy as any of them.
Mr. WAYNE thought it necessary to make some observations on what had fallen from the gentleman on his right, (Mr. BOUDINOT.) In order to place this subject in a proper point of view, he begged leave to mention certain circumstances previous to the evacuation of Charleston. Some of the first characters in South Carolina obtained a flag from General Greene, to meet a deputation of merchants and others under a flag from the British lines. Those merchants were anxious to remain after the army, for the purpose of disposing of their stock in trade, and wished for a reasonable time to transact that business; this indulgence was readily granted, for it was thought an object of consequence to retain supplies for the use of the country as well as for the army; and they were permitted to continue in the place for the space of twelve months after the abandonment should take effect. Assurances were also given them for the inviolable protection of their persons and property for that period. Thus sanctioned, they were probably induced to speculate upon such stores as the British army could spare, (for that army was redundantly supplied,) whilst the Americans were experiencing almost every possible distress for want of the common necessaries of life. About this time hopes were entertained of the speedy appearance of a superior marine force from the French West Indies, to that of the British; and the operating army under my command was advanced to the quarter-house, in a position to prevent the enemy from embarking with impunity, and to protect the town and its inhabitants from depredation and insult. This manoeuvre had the desired effect; it created a jealousy in the British General for the safety of his rear, and General Leslie was, in a manner, compelled to come into a convention, more resembling a capitulation than an abandonment, for he was under the necessity to "agree not to commit any insult upon the inhabitants, or depredation upon their property, or damage to the city, at or after his embarkation." The word after caused some demur; but it was insisted upon and complied with, in consequence of the orders I had previously received from General Greene; a measure which at once afforded security to the inhabitants, and a flattering prospect of full supplies, as well for the citizens as for the army.
The gentleman (Mr. BOUDINOT) says--How are we to distinguish between the articles and necessaries that were actually made use of by the army, and of the other goods purchased of the British merchants? This may be fully answered and explained by mentioning this fact: that those merchants took advantage of their situation, and would not dispose of any article suitable for the army unless their whole stock were purchased together; having but twelve months to dispose of their goods and collect their debts. Nor could the necessary articles be obtained at the point of the bayonet, as the merchants were protected by a compact made under the sanction of a flag. Nor would they trust the contractor Banks with their property, unless General Greene became his security; by which act, in their opinion, the United States would be bound in honor to fulfil a contract made by their commanding officer; nor did General Greene come into the measure until compelled by dire necessity, to prevent a mutiny and dissolution of the army. And such was the exhausted situation of the country in the vicinity of Charleston, that the Executive and the Legislature found it expedient to send a distance into the country to obtain supplies for themselves and the refugee families who were returning to the city after the evacuation: in fact, we were under the necessity of taking part of these very provisions, to prevent an instantaneous revolt.
But the gentleman (Mr. BOUDINOT) says that General Greene's private friendship for Major Burnett, who had been his aide-de-camp, was a peculiar inducement for his entering into that security, and that Major Burnett had mortgaged an island to General Greene as a collateral security. This, indeed, was an act of private friendship; but it was a subsequent transaction, and noways connected with the former, nor is it amongst the charges. This was a private purchase by Major Burnett from Mr. John M'Queen, a gentleman well known in South Carolina; and it was thought to be a very advantageous purchase for Major Burnett at the time it was made, (although it has turned out otherwise,) but it was necessary for him to obtain security, previous to receiving titles. He applied to General Greene to become his security upon that occasion, which was complied with; and in that act he certainly displayed a superior degree of private friendship, and such as has already been found extremely injurious to his family; but it is by no means connected with the claim now under consideration.
The danger of establishing a precedent in future, unsupported by previous authority obtained from Congress, is also mentioned as an objection. Mr. Chairman, there never can be any danger of drawing this circumstance into precedent; for the page of history never did before, nor I believe ever will again, produce a similar precedent, i. e. an army facing and surmounting every difficulty and danger through a long and bloody contest, badly clothed and worse paid, and frequently destitute of the common necessaries of life. Sir, it is for the honor of General Greene that we contend; and I am warranted in asserting, that he was not interested in the contract of Mr. Banks, otherwise than from the pure and virtuous motives of serving and saving his country. I therefore feel myself interested, and bound in honor to support and defend the character of my departed friend, and to demand this claim as a matter of right, and not of grace; and I have a confidence that the candor and justice of this committee will induce them to adopt the principles of the resolutions submitted to their consideration.
Mr. SUMTER.--With respect to the resolution as it now stands, I feel myself obliged to oppose it. Nothing that has fallen from the gentleman over the way (Mr. WAYNE) has convinced me that the measure is proper or just. It is necessary to be cautious in the manner of discussing a matter of so much delicacy. I rise, not to make any pointed objections that can in any degree injure the reputation of the officer, whose abilities I respect, or to hurt the feelings of his family or connections. I suppose that no gentleman will decide in favor of the resolution without examining the merits of the case. The committee will have that information which they shall deem to be requisite on the occasion. I am sorry to differ in opinion with the gentleman from Georgia, and am therefore disposed to make sacrifices of my own feelings of past injuries, and will not suffer them to warp my judgment, but will endeavor to decide in conformity with the opinions of the people of the State of South Carolina, and in particular of the district which I have the honor to represent. In going into the investigation of this matter, I will give my reasons why I do not think the country, although in extreme distress, was in that deplorable situation which has been represented; neither was its credit reduced so low but that relief might have been obtained, and that so small an army might have been accommodated, had a proper application been made in time to the Government. The gentleman must therefore be mistaken in stating those circumstances; for if the proper documents be examined, it will appear that the army received very ample supplies from the same source, some months previous to the contract made by Mr. Banks, which must have been in November, or early in December, and previous to the evacuation of Charleston. Whether it was better to adopt the means used by General Greene, or those within the power of the Government, I shall not pretend to determine; but I have no doubt that the Government possessed both the means and the inclination to find supplies. The contract was first made by Banks in November or December, and General Greene did not become the guarantee until the April following; whether there were any reasons for preferring this mode to that of an application to Government, will perhaps appear in the course of the investigation.
Mr. Chairman, this contract has been considered to have operated rather as a misfortune, although it may have afforded a temporary relief; it was the occasion of much complaint, vexation, and distrust, rather than of conciliation; and that this discontent ran through the army is within the knowledge of several officers whose names could be mentioned. It is therefore necessary to bring the matter into the full view of the committee, and to have recourse to the files of the public offices, before we agree to the resolution on the table. At the same time, it is my sincere wish to render justice to the family of the deceased in every reasonable accommodation; but it does not appear to me that the family is reduced to that disagreeable situation which has been represented. The large grants that have been made by the States of Georgia, North and South Carolina, are still in the possession of the heirs of the deceased, and I have been informed that a gentleman offered $30,000 for that granted by North Carolina, so late as last summer; neither have I heard that any distress has been levied upon any of these estates, or that they are so much affected, in reality, but that the claims made against them are rather of a nominal and visionary nature. But admitting that General Greene was security for the United States, and that the operation had been beneficial, (which I deny;) does it appear that executions have been levied to any considerable amount, or to such an extent as to justify the present application? To me it does not appear this has been the case, neither do I believe that the estate has been reduced in the manner represented; and, whilst I say it, I honestly and sincerely hope it; under which impression, I can never accede to the resolution on the table.
Mr. WADSWORTH.--The gentleman last up has said many things to me utterly unintelligible, and others which directly militate with what has been said by the gentleman from Georgia. He has, however, declared that no real or supposed personal injury shall influence him in giving his opinion or vote. I hope, sir, he will not now feel or resent those real or supposed injuries. I do believe they are not real; and from my long and intimate acquaintance with General Greene, I had good opportunity to know him; a better man I never did know. That he had enemies is not to be wondered at; the nature of his command to the southward was important, critical, and difficult, and he might be constrained to do things that necessity only would justify. If he has injured any man, he has atoned for it; neither the tongue nor pen of malice have been able to affix a stigma on his character. If I ever knew a man whose heart was pure and without guile, it was General Greene. Yet he had enemies; no man deserved them so little. More honest fame is due to no man. And if his fortune is to be sacrificed, and his family beggared, it is a consolation that his good name will last for ever. Being one of his executors, I know something of his affairs; but it was with reluctance I rose, as my attachments to him and concern for his family render it extremely difficult for me to enter on the subject. The gentleman from South Carolina has told us he is acquainted with the affairs of the estates in the Carolinas, and has said they are without any executions against them, the bonds on good credit, and the family in no danger of poverty, &c. I can hardly allow, sir, that he is acquainted with the affairs of General Greene, even in South Carolina and Georgia; but if he is, I will ask him if he does not know that all the negroes from the South Carolina estate are sold, and that the land is totally unproductive? that Mr. Rutledge has prevented executions from taking the Georgia estate by his personal interference? that all the estates in Rhode Island and New Jersey are sold? and that the hope of the justice we now ask for has delayed the sale of all the rest, to satisfy his creditors--his Southern creditors?
The proofs and documents alluded to by the gentleman (Mr. SUMTER) have been before Congress for several years, and the friends and executors of General Greene have challenged his enemies, in every part of the Union, to disprove them; and I hope no delay will now take place. The subject is fully before Congress. I hope justice will be done to the widow and orphans of the late General Greene, and that the investigation will now be finished, his honest fame vindicated and established, and his family saved from the ruin that awaits them.
Mr. HARTLEY, in support of Mr. WAYNE's motion, observed, that he had paid some attention to the report and the documents referred to in it, as well as the objections made to the resolutions under consideration. Many of the objections, said he, have been answered by gentlemen who were nearer to the scene of action than myself; I shall strive to obviate others. The mode of conducting our affairs in South Carolina does not seem to have been agreeable to the gentleman opposite to me from that State, (Mr. SUMTER,) and he expresses his high disapprobation of many parts of it. When I disagree with that gentleman, I do it with great reluctance; for no one on this floor has a greater respect for him than myself. In a hazardous and difficult situation, or in carrying on war, or even in great political questions, the best friends may differ in the mode of conducting them; and it has too frequently happened, that such difference has tended to lessen the friendship which formerly existed. Upon the whole, our arms to the southward were crowned with success; we must presume the means generally used were right. If supplies could have been furnished by the State of South Carolina, it is a pity they were not granted. I say, it is possible General Greene might have pursued a different mode to obtain clothing and provisions. He did not. He was of opinion no other plans could have been successfully followed but those which were adopted. The idea of his being a partner with Banks & Co., seems to be given up by the opposition. The mere insinuation of Mr. Banks and some others can have no influence against such a cloud of evidence and documents. These are so strong for the General, that they would work conviction on the greatest infidel. I shall barely advert to a part of them, as mentioned in the report, and on this head give a few observations of my own. And, first, the application to the Legislature of South Carolina, in order to create a competition: Had he been concerned as a partner, or intended to be so, no competition through that channel would have been proposed. If he was to be a partner, the more secret the transaction, the higher the advantage. The bond of indemnity to General Greene, oaths of Banks and Hunter, certificate from Major Forsyth, Nathaniel Pendleton's oath, Charles C. Pinckney's oath, (now Governor of South Carolina,) and the certificates of the two Chancellors of South Carolina, who were both high in the Executive, when these transactions should have happened. Besides, sir, if we consider how many partners there were concerned with Banks in the different transactions, had General Greene been one of the company, it must long since have been manifested to the world. The secret could not have been kept; nor can we possibly think that General Greene, who was undoubtedly a man of understanding, would have expressed himself in the manner he has done, in the close of his letter from Newport, dated the 24th of August, 1785, had he been a partner. He says there, "Thus have I given your Excellency a short narration of the origin and situation of this matter, and have only to add on this subject, that I never held any commercial connection with the company, other than what concerned the public, either directly or indirectly, or ever received one farthing profit or emolument, or the promise of any one from them; and my bond of indemnity expressly declares that I have no interest, connection, or concern, in the debts for which I became bound, all which I am willing to verify on oath." Would he have pledged his honor, his reputation, had he been interested? No, it is impossible! He would have been silent had he been a culprit, and not have challenged the world, as the power of detection would have laid with so many, and the shaft of envy always ready. I hope every man must be satisfied that the General was no partner.
The great points of contest before the committee seem now to be--
1st. Did the General enter into these engagements out of personal regard to individuals, without a view to the public interest?
2dly. Was not the good of the public his principal object?
3dly. Under all circumstances, should not his estate be indemnified?
As to the first, I cannot think that the General, out of mere personal regard to individuals, without a view to the public good, would have been bail. He had been esteemed a man of prudence, and was not a person of large fortune. How would he embarrass his family and property in such engagements? Who, under mere motives of friendship, would have done so? The sum was too large; he had no interest. He got no goods or money for himself. He might have had a favorable opinion of some of the company, but his responsibility was become necessary with a view to the public good.
As to the second, public good must have been his principal object. The contracts before made would not have been carried into execution, without the aid of the contract, for which the indemnity was made in April, 1783. A great many articles were absolutely necessary to the army; they were connected with others; the necessaries could not at that critical period, or for the moment, be obtained elsewhere. The merchants, as I understand, insisted upon two conditions before they would deliver the goods: 1st, that all the goods should go together; 2d, that the commanding officer should become security. There was a necessity for an additional capital to furnish the means for supporting the army; and as most of the goods were useful and necessary, the residue might be disposed of to the best advantage, and the money arising from them be applied to the payment of the debt. Public necessity and the state of things would oblige the General to agree to the first condition. The compliance with the second condition became a necessary consequence. The General's letter from Newport, and General Wayne's oath, Nathaniel Pendleton's oath, and other evidence, prove the situation of the army. As to the third point, should not his estate be indemnified? Through his zeal for the public good, he has unfortunately involved his estate in difficulty. Whatever the conduct of the company might be, the creditors were not to be affected either by the fraud or failure of Banks and the purchasers. General Greene was liable. The General, when he hears of misconduct, does all he can to save and indemnify himself, and through him the United States. Securities were taken in as ample a manner as they could he obtained from the delinquents; and General Greene never wished to call upon the public, until every other means failed. So late as the year 1785 he had still hopes there would be no loss; but when he found the danger, a sense of duty obliged him to come forward to save himself and family, to ask the protection of the public to indemnify him from a debt that he had contracted to save an army from mutiny and disbanding; to protect a country which otherwise would have been exposed. Many exertions had he to make to feed the hungry and cover the naked; were not these for the public good, and shall his private property suffer? Shall his family be reduced to beggary, be stripped of their all, to discharge what the United States are in honor and in justice bound to pay?
Retrospective laws, to affect rights attacked, ought never to pass; but laws have frequently been enacted to indemnify persons for a conduct, though not strictly legal, yet founded on the special circumstances of the case--the safety or honor of a nation or army, where the constitutional authority could not come forward in time. Such was the treaty or system formed by the Duke of Marlborough and the great De Witt. The Dutch, instead of punishing their minister, approved the measure; it eventually tended to the safety and honor of the allies. The individual who undertakes risks for his country's good, a magnanimous Government will always sanctify. We should consider the case upon substantial principles, not according to the letter, not act as the Lacedæmonians did to one of their leaders; they fined him for the infringement of the letter of the law, yet for the same act rewarded the hero with a garland. The fine here ruins the General's estate, and the garland alone, I fear, in this country, will not give his children bread or a becoming education.
In our late contest, the common maxims of old nations could not always be adhered to. We were obliged to act according to emergencies. In the case of General Greene, he seems to have intended for the best. He helped to serve and save a country. His merit stands high indeed. I need not repeat the number of his great and glorious actions, which mark him the General and the hero. His name will be handed down with honor to succeeding ages.
Under all circumstances, I think his estate should be indemnified. If the committee do not like the whole of the resolution, let there be a division, as proposed by one of the gentlemen from South Carolina; though I should think we might safely vote for the whole of the resolution, and let the bill make any other provisions which it may be thought necessary.
Mr. LEE, Mr. BARNWELL, Mr. WAYNE, and Mr. BOURNE, R. I., spoke in favor of agreeing to the resolutions, and Mr. MACON and Mr. STURGES against the motion. Mr. SUMTER closed the debate in sundry remarks on extracts from letters wrote by General Greene during the late war, inserted in Gordon's History of the American Revolution, which extracts contain unfavorable reflections on the militia of South Carolina, and the patriotism of the inhabitants of that State. These reflections, Mr. SUMTER said, were gross calumnies on, and misrepresentations of the character of that people, which he said were invalidated by facts that at that time took place, and by the general tenor of the conduct of South Carolina throughout the whole course of the war.
MONDAY, January 23.
Petition of Catharine Greene.
The order of the day being called for, on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of Catharine Greene, several members objected to taking up this subject, being of a private nature, while matters of the greatest public importance demand the immediate attention of Congress. The question being taken, the motion for going into Committee of the Whole was carried, 21 to 16; and Mr. LIVERMORE took the chair.
After considerable debate, the question was put for agreeing to the first resolution, in the following words:
Resolved, as the opinion of this committee, That the estate of the late Major General Greene ought to be indemnified for the engagements entered into by that General, with certain persons in the State of South Carolina, for the purpose of obtaining supplies for the Army of the United States, under his command, in the year 1783.
Which was negatived, 28 to 25.
The committee then rose, and the Chairman reported that the Committee of the whole House had had under consideration a report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of Catharine Greene, and had come to no resolution thereon.
Mr. MACON then moved that the Committee of the Whole should be discharged from any further proceedings on the subject; which motion was agreed to.
Mr. BOURNE then laid on the table a resolution for referring the Secretary's Report, together with Mrs. Greene's petition, and the vouchers accompanying it, to a select committee, with instruction to inquire into the facts which rendered it necessary for General Greene to become security to Banks & Co., and the nature, circumstances, and amount of the original debt, and the obligation entered into by General Greene for payment thereof; with an account of the moneys or collateral security received by the obligees, or by General Greene in his lifetime, or his representatives since his death, in part thereof; and the eventual loss which his estate will sustain in consequence of the said securities; and after examining all the circumstances and such further evidence as may be offered relative to the transaction, to report their opinion thereon to the House.
THURSDAY, January 26.
An engrossed bill to ascertain and regulate the claims to half-pay and to invalid pensions was read the third time and passed.
Protection of the Frontiers.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for making further and more effectual provision for the Protection of the Frontiers of the United States.
A motion being made to strike out the second section of the bill, which contemplates the raising of three additional regiments of infantry and a squadron of light dragoons, amounting in all to three thousand and forty men, exclusive of commissioned officers--
It was urged in favor of the motion, that the Indian war, in which the United States are at present involved, was, in its origin, as unjustly undertaken as it has since been unwisely and unsuccessfully conducted; that depredations had been committed by the whites as well as by the Indians; and the whites were most probably the aggressors, as they frequently made encroachments on the Indian lands, whereas the Indians showed no inclination to obtain possession of our territory, or even to make temporary invasions, until urged to it by a sense of their wrongs. A proof of this unencroaching disposition on their part plainly appeared in their conduct, after the victory they lately obtained over our troops; for, when flushed with success, they might have swept the country before them, and penetrated as far as Pittsburg, they contented themselves with the advantage they had gained over their invaders, and did not attempt to invade our territories in return, although there was nowhere at hand a sufficient force to check their career.
The mode of treating the Indians in general was reprobated as unwise and impolitic. The Indians are with difficulty to be reduced by the sword, but may easily be gained by justice and moderation;[41] and, although their cruelties are alleged as reasons for a different conduct, and the sufferings of the white people pathetically deplored, these narratives, it was said, are at best but ex parte evidence--we hear nothing of the sufferings of the Indians--but if Cornplanter's speech were read, it would set the matter in a very different point of view, and furnish a complete answer to all the charges of their accusers.
Peace, it was said, may be obtained from the Indian tribes at a much less expense than would be necessary for the support of the war. To persevere in hostilities would be wasting the public money to a very bad purpose indeed; for, supposing our arms crowned with victory, what are the advantages we may expect to reap from our success? We can only gain possession of their lands--a possession that must long continue unproductive of the smallest benefit, as we already possess land sufficient--more, in fact, than we will be able to cultivate for a century to come.
Instead of being ambitious to extend our boundaries, it would answer a much better national purpose to check the roving disposition of the frontier settlers, and prevent them from too suddenly extending themselves to the Western waters. If kept closer together, and more nearly connected with the old settlements, they would be more useful to the community at large, and would not so frequently involve us in unnecessary and expensive wars with the Indians; but if permitted to rove at pleasure, they will keep the nation embroiled in perpetual warfare as long as the Indians have a single acre of ground to rest upon.
If the citizens of the United States were recalled within their proper boundaries, there they might, for years to come, cultivate the soil in peace, neither invaded nor invading. As the country progresses in population, and our limits are found too narrow, it will then be soon enough to contemplate a gradual extension of our frontier; but, in the mean time, it is an idle profusion of blood and treasure to carry war beyond our present line of forts. It is only exposing our arms to disgrace, betraying our own weakness, and lessening the public confidence in the General Government, to send forth armies to be butchered in the forests, while we suffer the British to keep possession of the posts within our territory.
As long as Britain is suffered to retain these posts, we can never hope to succeed against the Indians; nor ought we to trace our late misfortune to any other source than her still holding them in her possession. Were they in our hands, the Indians could not carry on their operations against us with the same degree of vigor as they now do; for it is from those forts that they obtain their supplies of arms and ammunition, with which they can be at all times plentifully furnished, as long as things continue on their present footing.
Until those posts are in our possession, it will be in vain to send our armies into the wilderness. A body of five thousand men, sent out against the Indians, under the present circumstances, would be as effectually defeated as the smaller ones have already been. In those wilds, our troops have no friend at hand to furnish them with supplies, or to give them intelligence of the approach and operations of the enemy; whereas, the Indians, receiving both aid and information from their friendly neighbors, can preconcert their plans, and choose, according to their own convenience, the place and the hour of attack, as they did before.
It was here observed, by an honorable gentleman on the other side of the question, that we ought undoubtedly to get possession of those posts; and that we might have long since obtained it, if we had only laid a seasonable embargo on all the British shipping in our ports; though he doubted whether it would at present be worth while to take such a step, as the English have lost so great a portion of our carrying trade, in consequence of the additional tonnage laid on their vessels.
In favor of the motion, it was further urged, that, supposing even the war to have been originally undertaken with justice on our side--supposing, also, that the national honor and interest called for a continuance of hostilities--yet, as it was by no means either necessary or prudent to invade the Indian territory, as this had been attempted in two successive campaigns, and the event had, in both instances, been such as to afford no very flattering prospect from a third expedition of the same kind, it was thought much more advisable to content ourselves with defending the frontier; and this might be done without making so great an augmentation in the military establishment.
The only use of regular troops on the frontier is to garrison the forts, and to have a standing force in the neighborhood to form a station, to which the militia may resort either for protection or supplies; but as to active service, the frontier militia and rangers were pronounced to be by far preferable to the regular troops, as being more expert woodsmen, and better habituated to the Indian mode of fighting. To defend the forts, a small number of regulars would be sufficient. The present establishment of two regiments would, if completed, be amply adequate to the purpose, and, when assisted by such forces as might at all times be collected on the frontier, would be able to repel every inroad of the enemy.
Experience has proved that the sudden and desultory attacks of the frontier militia and rangers are ever attended with better success than the methodical operations of a regular force. The former are better calculated for expedition and surprise, making unexpected sallies, scouring the country in small bodies, harassing the Indians, and intercepting their straggling parties, by whom their motions are unobserved; whereas, when a body of regulars take the field, encumbered with baggage and heavy artillery, the unavoidable slowness of their movements affords the enemy an opportunity of watching all their operations, collecting their whole force, and skulking in the woods around them till they can seize the favorable moment to strike a sudden blow, which they generally do with success, but which they could never attempt if exposed every hour to the unforeseen attacks of our woodsmen, who would keep their attention constantly engaged in all quarters, and thus prevent them from uniting in large bodies.
It was further observed by some gentlemen, who even admitted the propriety of invading the Indian territory, that, to effect this with success, it was by no means necessary to make such an increase in the military establishment as that contemplated in the bill. The miscarriage of the former expeditions could not (they said) be alleged as a sufficient reason; for it is well known that the former establishment was far from being complete. The regulars intended for the service of the last campaign were to have been above two thousand two hundred; the President was, besides, empowered to raise two thousand five hundred levies, in addition to the regulars; and these would, together, have constituted an army of about four thousand seven hundred men. Had such a body been employed, we might reasonably have expected much better success against the Indians, whose numbers were so far inferior; the whole force of the Wabash tribes not amounting to above eleven or twelve hundred warriors, who never could keep the field for any length of time, but must be soon obliged to disperse, without venturing an attack upon an army of such superior strength.
Instead of this, our army consisted of only about twelve hundred men, and of these not above four or five hundred were regular troops; besides, had even this force been sufficient, if employed in season, the delays that had taken place in the execution of the plan would alone have been sufficient to defeat the intended purpose. During the winter, the law was passed for raising the additional troops for carrying on the war with greater vigor. The whole summer was spent in the business, and the few men that we did enlist were not raised till late in the fall. Collected at length at the head of the Ohio, they fruitlessly loitered away their time, till they finally erected a monument to our eternal disgrace and infamy.
Whatever troops are to be employed, ought to be raised with diligence and despatch, if we wish to avoid a similar miscarriage in our next attempt. The army ought not to enter the Indian country till their whole force is complete. Difficulties, however, and delay, equal to those of last year, may be expected in enlisting the men; and we shall have the officers in pay a considerable time without any soldiers. Perhaps the former pay of the troops was too low, and proper effective men were unwilling to accept of it; if so, let it be raised, let the men be well clothed and fed, and they will more readily engage in the service. Probably, also, the term of three years was an objection with many, who would otherwise have joined our standard. If enlisted only for six months, the ranks will be sooner filled; and this ought to have considerable weight with those who advocate the augmentation of the military establishment, as they cannot but know that, if we set about enlisting the number of men contemplated in the bill, and in the manner there prescribed, they cannot be raised time enough to render any service in the next campaign.
The information contained in the report on the table was not, it was said, to be implicitly relied on. That report was made by a man who had not personally visited the frontier. Others, who had been on the spot, were of opinion that, if two thousand levies had been raised last year, they would have been sufficient, not only for the defence of the frontier, but even for any offensive operations that might have been thought necessary. Such troops, collected in the vicinity, are more competent to the undertaking than the troops now in contemplation. No complaint had been made of their conduct. Whenever they were tried, they behaved as well as the regulars, and, in the action under General St. Clair, they gave equal proofs of their valor.
It was further urged, that the frontier militia are not only equal, but infinitely superior to any regular troops whatever, for the defence of the borders, and that they are, in fact, the only force that can be effectually employed in expeditions against the hostile Indians, whose mode of fighting is familiar to them, and does not strike them with that degree of terror with which it inspires those men who enlist on the regular establishment. These latter being collected in the heart of populous cities, where the face of an Indian is seldom seen, hardly know whether the Indian and his horse are not the same animal. And when they approach the enemy, at the very first shout, even before he is in view, they are terrified at the idea of savage barbarity, which they have ever been taught to reflect on with horror, and, being incapable of resistance, they commit their safety to flight. To prove the superiority of the militia, gentlemen need only contrast the despatch and success of the expedition conducted by General Scott, with the delays, disgrace, and mortification, which attended that under General St. Clair, and consider the difference of the expense on those two occasions.
The expense of such an army as the bill contemplates is an object well worthy of serious consideration, especially at the present moment, when there is scarcely a dollar in the Treasury. Gentlemen would also do well to advert to the progress of this business, and consider where they were likely to stop, if they went on at the present rate. At first, only a single regiment had been raised, and the expense was about $100,000; a second was afterwards added, which swelled the expense to about $300,000; and now a standing force of 5,168 men is contemplated, at an annual expense of above a million and a quarter of dollars. Can this be justified in the present state of our finances, when it is well known that the Secretary of the Treasury, having been requested by the members from a particular State to build a light-house on a part of their coast, declined the undertaking, and alleged the want of funds as the reason?
Our resources, however, might be made to answer for the support of such a force as that which was intended for the service of the preceding year, and there would be little complaint or dissatisfaction among the people. Very few murmurings were heard against the former establishment; but such a one as is now contemplated will be thought extravagant, will breed discontent among the citizens of the United States, and perhaps afford our neighbors in Canada an opportunity to take advantage of our divided situation, and involve us in a war more dangerous than the former which separated us from Great Britain.
Apprehensions, it is said, are entertained that the object contemplated in raising these additional troops is not so much to punish and coerce the Indians, as to have a standing regular force equal to what the British have on this continent. This is said to amount to about six thousand men, including those in Canada. But it is to be remarked, that the British nation has not above one thousand men within the limits of the United States; and yet, with this handful of troops, they not only keep the Indians in awe, but even, in opposition to the wishes of the United States, retain possession of those posts which should have been ceded to us pursuant to the terms of the treaty. Why, then, is it necessary, for the purpose of establishing posts and garrisoning them, to increase the standing force to so large a number as that contemplated in the clause under consideration? During our late arduous struggle for liberty, when we had to cope with the most powerful nation under heaven, the commander-in-chief had never at any one time above ten thousand men under his own immediate command; and if, with so small a force, we were able to effect so glorious a revolution, there can be no necessity of going such lengths at present, for the sake of establishing a military character. It is strange policy, indeed, to raise five or six thousand men to oppose a handful of Indian banditti, whose utmost amount does not, from the documents on the table, appear to exceed twelve hundred.
We are preparing to squander away money by millions; and no one, except those who are in the secrets of the Cabinet, knows for what reason the war has been thus carried on for three years. But what funds are to defray the increased expense of maintaining such a force as is now contemplated? The excise is both unpopular and unproductive. The impost duties have been raised as high as is consistent with prudence. To increase them, would be but to open a door for smuggling, and thus diminish their productiveness. And if those sources of revenue fail--if our finances be thus exhausted in unnecessary wars--we shall be unable to satisfy, the public creditors, unless recourse be had to new taxes, the consequence of which may, with just reason, be deplored; whereas, if we but keep our expenses within bounds--if we nurse our finances--we shall be respectable among the nations of the earth, nor will any nation dare to insult us, or be able to do it with impunity.
During the course of these observations, an honorable gentleman asked, whether this was a day set apart for rhetorical flourishes, as the galleries were open, and he saw the short-hand writers stationed at their different posts?
At an early stage of the debate, an honorable gentleman had suggested, that, instead of passing a law for raising at all events the additional regiments, which, for his part, he did not think necessary, the House, if they finally determined the present establishment to be insufficient, would perhaps do better to appropriate a certain sum of money, to enable the Executive to call in such additional aid as circumstances may require.
To this it was objected, that it is the duty of the Representatives of the people, in all appropriations of the public money, to make them for certain specific purposes. To act otherwise on the present occasion would be setting a precedent that might, in its consequences, prove highly injurious; for, although the greatest confidence may safely be reposed in the virtue and integrity of him who now fills the Presidential chair, it is impossible to foresee what use may hereafter be made of the precedent by his successors, or how far it may be carried.
Against the motion for striking out, and in favor of the proposed augmentation of the military establishment, it was urged: That, as to the justice of the war carried on against the Indian tribes, that was a question which could not admit of a doubt in the mind of any man who would allow that self-preservation and indispensable necessity are sufficient causes to justify a nation in taking up arms. If the present war be not in every respect justifiable, then there never was, nor ever will be, a just war. It was originally undertaken, and since carried on, not for the sake of conquest, but to defend our fellow-citizens, our friends, our dearest connections, who are daily exposed, in the frontier settlements, to all the rage of savage barbarity, to which they, with their wives and children, must soon fall victims, unless we speedily fly to their assistance; and, although there are some people who utterly deny the justice of any war whatever, this doctrine, however fine in theory, will hardly ever obtain in practice; for, is it to be imagined, that any set of men are of such a passive disposition as calmly to look on whilst their friends and relations are butchered before their eyes, and to refuse giving them every assistance in their power?
The murders and depredations which have for years past been repeatedly committed by the savages, loudly call for redress. From various documents of unquestionable authority, now in the hands of the Secretary of War, signed and attested by the Executive and Legislature of Kentucky, by the District Judge, and the Captains of the militia, it appears, that, from the year 1783 to 1790, there have been, of the inhabitants of that District, or of emigrants on their way thither, no less than fifteen hundred persons either massacred by the savages, or dragged into captivity, two thousand horses taken away, and other property plundered or destroyed to the amount of fifty thousand dollars. And there is good reason to suppose that on the other frontiers of Virginia and Pennsylvania the number of persons murdered or taken prisoners during the above-mentioned period would furnish a list of one thousand or fifteen hundred more.
The white people, it is true, have sometimes committed depredations on the Indians; but the instances have been rare (the honorable gentleman who spoke did not recollect above one or two) of their making unjust attacks upon the savages; nor did they, on those occasions, commence hostilities against them till exasperated by the strongest provocations that could possibly stimulate the human heart. This circumstance may be justly allowed as some palliation of the offence. Even in these instances, however, a few individuals only were concerned; and, when the affair came to the knowledge of the State, ample reparation was made to the injured party. The General Government, too, had shown an equal disposition to do justice to the Indian tribes. Witness the affair of the Cherokees; for, as soon as Congress had heard their complaints of an encroachment made on them by some of the people from the frontier of the Carolinas, immediate orders were issued for obliging the intruders to evacuate the Indian territory.
But, notwithstanding the disposition that prevails, as well in the Legislatures of those States whose frontiers are most exposed, as in the General Government, to cultivate peace and amity with the neighboring Indians, that desirable object is become utterly unattainable in the present posture of affairs. The frontier Indians have killed a number of whites; the whites, in their turn, have made retaliation. Both parties are in the highest degree exasperated against each other, and likely to continue so, in spite of every endeavor that can be made to effect a reconciliation. With minds thus irritated, it is vain to hope for peace, as long as they continue in each other's neighborhood. It is therefore necessary to form a strong barrier, to keep them asunder, unless, indeed, the advocates for a cessation of hostilities would oblige the frontier settlers to abandon their lands. But by what new-invented rule of right should the inhabitants of Kentucky, and the other frontier settlers, be laid under a greater obligation than any other citizens of the United States to relinquish a property legally acquired by their purchase? Were it even proposed to pacify the savages, by purchasing the lands anew, such a measure would answer no other purpose than that of procuring a temporary peace, which would soon again be interrupted by a war that would reproduce the necessity of again having recourse to the same expedient. We should have to purchase the lands again and again, without end. By thus squandering the public money, year after year, we should swell the national debt to an amount that we cannot possibly foresee. Better at once to make a vigorous effort, to act in a manner becoming the national dignity, and to maintain our ground by war, since we cannot obtain a durable or an honorable peace.
Attempts have, at various times, been made to effect treaties of peace with the Indian tribes with whom we are now at war; and, although these efforts have constantly proved ineffectual, they yet show, that neither the United States nor the State of Virginia were backward on their part to adopt conciliatory measures, and to do away that animosity which had commenced on the part of the savages at an early period of the late war with Great Britain, and had continued to break out at intervals ever since. In the years, 1783, '84, '85, '87, '88, and '90, offers of peace were made to them. On the last-mentioned occasion, when a treaty was proposed at the Miami village, the Indians at first refused to treat. They next required thirty days to deliberate; and, in the interim, the inhabitants of Kentucky were expressly prohibited by the President of the United States from carrying on any offensive operations against them; yet, notwithstanding this forbearance on the part of the whites, no less than one hundred and twenty persons were killed or captured by the savages, and several prisoners roasted alive, during that short period, at the expiration of which, the Indians refused to give any answer at all.
On another occasion, the Indians, not content with rejecting our offers of peace, proceeded even so far as to insult us, by telling us we have lands within the British posts, and asking us why we did not go and take possession of them? Will it be said that we are unable to do it? Is this language to be used within the United States? No! We are able, abundantly able to do it, whenever we please; and if we would but retrench our expenses in some instances, which might well admit of a reduction, our ability would still increase; our finances are not quite so insufficient as some gentlemen seem to imagine, nor so easily deranged. We are still able to prove that the boasted efficiency of the General Government is something more than an empty name--we can yet raise both men and money sufficient to defend the nation from either injury or insult.
It is now too late to inquire whether the war was originally undertaken on the principles of justice or not. We are actually involved in it, and cannot recede, without exposing numbers of innocent persons to be butchered by the enemy; for, though we should determine to discontinue the war, can it he said that the savages will also agree to a cessation of hostilities? It is well known that they are averse to peace; and even the warmest advocate of pacific measures must therefore allow that the war is a war of necessity, and must be supported. We cannot, without impeachment both to our justice and our humanity, abandon our fellow-citizens on the frontier to the rage of their savage enemies. And although the excise may be somewhat unpopular, although money may still be wanted; what is the excise? what is money, when put in competition with the lives of our friends and brethren?
A sufficient force must be raised for their defence; and the only question now to be considered is, what that force shall be? Experience has proved, that the force employed in the last campaign was inadequate. It is true the establishment was not complete; but who will venture to assert that, if it had been complete, it would have been sufficient for the intended purpose? Are gentlemen who assert this so well acquainted with the circumstances of the enemy, as to be able to give an accurate statement of the amount of their forces on the frontier? There are stronger opinions in favor of an augmentation of the army than can be adduced against it--opinions given by men of judgment and experience, who have themselves been on the spot, and are well acquainted with the situation of affairs in that quarter. These gentlemen, who must be allowed to be competent judges, are decidedly of opinion that the present establishment, though completed to the last man, will not furnish an adequate force to carry on the war with effect; and that it will be a hopeless attempt to open another campaign, with less than about five thousand regular troops, the number contemplated in the bill.
Nor ought that number to be deemed extravagant, under an idea that we have only a contemptible handful of banditti to contend with. Their numbers were, last year, from authentic documents, stated at about twelve hundred warriors, from twenty-three different tribes: such was the opposition then contemplated; but it is impossible to ascertain what accessions of strength they have since received, or even what force they had engaged in the late unfortunate action, as the very men who were in the engagement do not pretend to form any just or accurate estimate of the number of their assailants; but there is good reason to suppose that they had previously entered into an association with various tribes, that have not as yet come within our knowledge. The bows and arrows used against our troops on that occasion, afford a convincing proof that they had foes to encounter from distant nations, as yet unacquainted with the use of fire-arms. Nor does the account of the bows and arrows depend, for its authenticity, on newspaper evidence alone; gentlemen of unquestionable veracity, who were personally engaged in the action, have declared that they had themselves noticed the arrows flying.
When we consider the warlike disposition of the Indians in general, and the alacrity with which the victors are ever sure to be joined by numerous allies, we have every reason to expect a much more formidable opposition in the next campaign. It is well known that the savages place all their glory in deeds of war; and that, among them, a young man cannot make his appearance in company till he has signalized his valor by some martial achievement. When, to this powerful incentive, a new stimulus is added by the trophies obtained in the late action, it is presumable that numbers will crowd to their standard; and it strongly behooves us to prepare in time for a much more vigorous effort than any we have yet made against them.
The objections drawn from the increased expense, must entirely vanish from before the eyes of any man who looks forward to the consequences of one more unsuccessful campaign. Such a disaster would eventually involve the nation in much greater expense than that which is now made the ground of opposition. Better, therefore, at once to make a vigorous and effectual exertion to bring the matter to a final issue, than to continue gradually draining the Treasury, by dragging on the war, and renewing hostilities from year to year.
If we wish to bring the war to a speedy and a happy conclusion, and to secure a permanent peace to the inhabitants on the frontier, we must employ such troops and adopt such measures as appear best calculated to ensure success. If we delay our determination until the force of the enemy be ascertained, we can make no provision at all; for the nature and circumstances of the case preclude us from the very possibility of obtaining a knowledge of their strength and numbers. And are we, meanwhile, to remain inactive and irresolute, and make no efforts to repel their intended attacks? No! Whatever their numbers may be, prudence calls aloud for provision of some kind. And if experience is to have any weight with us, the example of the French and of the British points out the true mode of securing our frontier, and rendering it invulnerable to an Indian foe. Let us occupy posts in the vicinity of the enemy, let them be properly garrisoned and well provided, and the business is done.
These will afford an opportunity of trading with the friendly tribes, and will prevent all intercourse between the whites and the Indians, except under proper regulations. Should hostilities be meditated by any tribes who are not in amity with us, early intelligence of their movements can be obtained; their marauding parties may either be beaten off on their approach, or intercepted on their return; opportunities may be taken of separately attacking the hostile tribes; their old men, their squaws, their children, will be exposed a great part of the year, whilst the others are out hunting. In short, if fear, hope, interest, can be supposed to have any influence on the Indians, this mode of defence must be allowed to be preferable to any other, as giving the fullest scope to the operation of all those motives.
A different mode has long been pursued in Virginia, and adopted by the inhabitants of Kentucky, but its success has not been such as to offer any inducement to the General Government to follow the same plan. Rangers have there been employed for a number of years to scour the frontiers; and those rangers, too, were expert woodsmen, perfectly inured to the Indian mode of warfare; yet, notwithstanding their utmost vigilance, these savages still found means to commit all the murders and depredations already enumerated. It is true, however, that a frontier militia man, trained up in the woods, may be, in many respects, preferable to a regular soldier, who has not the same knowledge of the country, and of the mode of fighting; but with equal experience, (and proper men possessed of that experience, may be enlisted on the establishment,) regular troops will be found infinitely superior to any militia upon earth.
Every man who has ever seen militia in the field, cannot but know that a very trifling disaster, or a slight cause of discontent, is sufficient to make them disband, and forget all subordination, so far as even to neglect the means of self-defence; whereas regular troops, under proper discipline, and acting with greater steadiness and concert, are much more to be depended on, especially when the object of attack is distant, and great fatigue is to be undergone. The militia, in whatever mode they may be called out, will hardly furnish men of the proper description; if large pay be offered, the temptation will equally prevail upon those who are unfit for the service as it will upon good, effective men; besides, some of the States have no militia laws; and, even in those States which have such laws, they are gone into disuse; no dependence can therefore be placed on militia under any laws now existing. There is, indeed, a general militia law now before the House: but if it ever passes, it certainly cannot be passed in due season to answer the purpose of providing for the immediate defence of the frontier. Regular troops must be raised, or nothing effectual can be done; and if to avoid the expense we refuse the only aid that may prove of any real service, we render ourselves responsible for the consequences of this parsimonious policy, which may be attended with the ruin and destruction of our fellow-citizens in the Western country.
The Cornplanter's speech was again mentioned and called for; but, as it had been confidentially communicated by the President, an objection was made to having it read, without clearing the galleries. Whereupon,
An honorable member rose, and mentioned his having read it in one of the public newspapers in the State of New Jersey.
To this it was answered, that if any gentleman had the newspaper to produce, the speech might be publicly read from that; otherwise, although it might be very proper that the speech itself should be read, yet, as it had been confidentially received from the Executive, there would be a manifest trespass on propriety and decorum in having it read with open galleries; it was therefore wished that the galleries might be cleared.
The Parliamentary etiquette requiring that this should be done by the House, and not by a committee, the committee rose for the purpose; and,
The Speaker having resumed the chair, the motion for clearing the galleries was renewed.
An objection was here started by an honorable gentleman in favor of the augmentation, who said that, as some gentlemen had spoken on the popular side of the question, whilst the galleries had been open, it was unfair to preclude those of opposite sentiments from an opportunity of answering their arguments in the same public manner, and proving to the people the justice and necessity of the war.
The motion, however, was persisted in, and the galleries were cleared.[42]
[The speakers in this day's debate were Messrs. WAYNE, GOODHUE, BOUDINOT, LIVERMORE, STEELE, PARKER, BOURNE, (Rhode Island,) WHITE, and MOORE. Mr. WHITE and Mr. MOORE opposed the motion; they were in favor of the augmentation proposed in the bill. The other gentlemen were in favor of striking out the clause.]
FRIDAY, January 27.
Protection of the Frontiers.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for making further and more effectual provision for the protection of the frontiers of the United States.
Mr. MERCER rose and addressed the Chair as follows:
Mr. Chairman: I originally opposed the reference of this subject to the Secretary of the Treasury, on principles supported by the constitution, by the theory of free government, and from practical observation on the progress of our own, and I believe the result now before us will fully exemplify every evil predicted.
Let any man examine this bill, and compare it with the terms of the original reference. Let it then be asked, whether the submission to devise ways and means to provide for the defence of the Western frontier, authorized the plans proposed by the Treasury Department, that we are now giving sanction to? Did it authorize a perpetual tax, irrepealable by the whole Legislature, without a breach of faith, according to received doctrine? At least, so far placing the purse-strings in the hands of the Executive, who may refuse an assent to the repeal; in the power of the Senate also, and consequently beyond the reach of the Representatives of the people, who alone are deputized by, and may be recalled by the great mass of society, and to whom the constitution expressly confines the power of originating money bills. Have we, in truth, originated this money bill? Do we ever originate any money bill? If a reference, such as made to the Secretary, was proposed to the Senate, who are a branch of the Legislature, nearly of equal importance with ourselves, would it not be held a breach of the constitution? Were they to propose such a plan as this to us, would it not be received with indignation? Why so little jealousy of the Executive Department, separated by the constitution with so much care from us? Of the Treasury Department, too, which is considered in other countries as possessing and exercising the means of corruption? It is in my judgment a direct infraction of the letter and spirit of the constitution, of the principles of free government, and I have heard no attempt to defend it, but on the ground of pitiful evasion, more dishonorable to ourselves and dangerous to the public, than an open violation, that would rouse their resentment and ensure opposition.
But did the submission of a provision to defend the frontier authorize a system for the encouragement of manufactures, thereby placing the occupations and productive labor of our citizens under the direction of Government, and rendering the living of the artist and subsistence of the farmer, so far equally dependent on and subservient to the views of Administration? Did it authorize an entire provision for the public debt, past, present, and to come? Did it authorize a plan for supplying former deficiencies, which it is admitted do not exist? Lastly, did it authorize an extensive increase of the Sinking Fund, which we are informed is one of the principal objects? It would be an affront to common sense to answer one of these queries in the affirmative--it authorized none of them. And yet these are all its offspring; these are the great objects it produced. It is true there are in the bill two or three little clauses that were authorized, and which relate to the submission, and which might well have escaped my attention, and would probably never attract the observation of the public, but for the title--a bill for the protection of the frontiers. By these clauses five hundred and twenty-three thousand dollars of the whole moneys to be for ever raised from its perpetual revenue, are appropriated for this year's campaign. After that sum is expended, we must, even the next year, look out for new taxes, and upon the same principles, as long as the Indian war continues (and by the enlistments it is not contemplated to be of very short duration) new taxes must be provided, for the residue of these taxes are by this bill appropriated to other purposes, for ever, after five hundred and twenty-three thousand dollars are paid. This appropriation is unalterable even by the whole Legislature, unless by a breach of public faith, or providing other equal revenue. Should every year's Indian war, and every national disaster excuse Government for laying a perpetual tax, equal to the increased annual demand, it will be selling us defeats at a very high price; and if Government are paid so well, they may be tempted to repeat the tragical representation.
But what is the reflection that naturally arises from a contemplation of this bill. That Administration will not even permit us to defend the helpless women and children of the frontier from the brutal ferocity of a savage foe, but on condition that the Representatives surrender up for ever the sacred trust of the constitution, and place in the power and under the control of the Executive and Senate, a perpetual tax. Unless they throw the power of regulating the labor and industry of their fellow-citizens into the hands of Government, and into a mean dependence on Administration; and unless they furnish a large sum of money, under the denomination of a Sinking Fund, for the purposes of speculation, in order to raise and lower the price of stocks at pleasure, or as may suit the views and interest of the band of favorites that are in the secret.
Hard and oppressive conditions! Was this the object of the reference to the Secretary? It was not the avowed one, nor could it have been suspected, from a simple proposition to devise ways and means to defend the frontier. A mighty fabric has been erected on this slight foundation, to hurry us into its adoption. We have been officially, I suppose, informed that the money for the War Department is almost expended; that the preparations for the Western expedition must stop, unless we pass the bill immediately; and thus, with the tomahawk suspended over our heads, we must give up to Administration the dearest interests of the people, and sacrifice the most sacred rights of the constitution.
MONDAY, January 30.
Protection of the Frontiers.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill making farther and more effectual provision for the protection of the frontiers of the United States; and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had again had the said bill under consideration, and made several amendments thereto; when the same being read, some were agreed to, and others disagreed to.
And then the said bill being before the House, a motion was made, and the question being put to amend the same, by striking out the second section thereof, in the words following:
"And be it further enacted, That there shall be raised three additional regiments of infantry, each of which, exclusively of the commissioned officers, shall consist of nine hundred and twelve non-commissioned officers, privates, and musicians:"
It passed in the negative--yeas 18, nays 34, as follows:
YEAS.--John Baptist Ashe, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, William Barry Grove, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Macon, Nathaniel Niles, Josiah Parker, Israel Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumter, George Thatcher, Artemas Ward, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.
NAYS.--Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, John Brown, Jonathan Dayton, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, William B. Giles, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Huger, Philip Key, Aaron Kitchell, John W. Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, James Madison, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Page, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Joshua Seney, William Smith, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, Peter Sylvester, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Anthony Wayne, and Alexander White.
The farther consideration of the said bill was then postponed until to-morrow.
TUESDAY, January 31.
The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, covering his report on the petitions of James Swaine, Abraham Springer, Timothy Mountford, sundry seamen, Samuel Wail, for himself and servant, John Carnaghan, James Shields, Henry Skinner, and William Loring; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Protection of the Frontiers.
The House resumed the consideration of the bill for making farther and more effectual provision for the protection of the frontiers of the United States; and the same being further amended, was
Ordered, To be engrossed, and read the third time to-morrow.
WEDNESDAY, February 1.
Mr. PAGE, from the committee to whom was referred the petition of John Churchman, made a report; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Protection of the Frontiers.
An engrossed bill for making farther and more effectual provision for the protection of the frontiers of the United States, was read the third time, and the blanks therein filled up; and on the question that the said bill do pass,
It was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 29, nays 19.
FRIDAY, February 3.
A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate recede from their amendments, disagreed to by this House, to the bill to establish Post Offices and Post Roads within the United States, and do agree to the amendments proposed by the House to their amendment to the said bill.
The Cod Fisheries.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled, "An act for the encouragement of the Bank and other Cod Fisheries, and for the regulation and government of the fishermen employed therein."
The first section being read as follows:
"Be it enacted, &c., That the bounty, now allowed upon the exportation of dried fish of the fisheries of the United States, shall cease on all dried fish exported after the tenth day of June next; and in lieu thereof, and for the more immediate encouragement of the said fisheries, there shall be afterwards paid, on the last day of December annually, to the owner of every vessel or his agent, by the collector of the district where such vessel may belong, that shall be qualified agreeably to law, for carrying on the Bank and other cod fisheries, and that shall actually have been employed therein at sea, for the term of four months at least, of the fishing season next preceding (which season is accounted to be from the last day of February, to the last day of November in every year) for each and every ton of such vessel's burden, according to her admeasurement, as licensed or enrolled; if of twenty tons and not exceeding thirty tons, one and a half dollars, and if above thirty tons, two and a half dollars, of which bounty three-eighth parts shall accrue and belong to the owner of such fishing vessel, and the other five-eighths thereof shall be divided by him, his agent or lawful representative, to and among the several fishermen who shall have been employed in such vessel, during the season aforesaid, or a part thereof, as the case may be, in such proportions as the fish they shall respectively have taken may bear to the whole quantity of fish taken on board such vessel during such season. Provided, That the bounty, to be allowed, and paid on any vessel for one season, shall not exceed one hundred and seventy dollars."
Mr. GILES expressed some doubt respecting the principle of the bill; and for the purpose of collecting the sense of the committee on the subject, he thought the most effectual means would be a motion to amend the bill, by striking out the whole section. He accordingly made the motion, observing at the same time, that he could not positively assert, whether the reasons which determined him against the principle of the bill, were well founded or not; that, in matters where a local preference is given, it is necessary to accommodate; and he would be happy if his objections could be removed. The present section of the bill appears to contain a direct bounty on occupations; and if that be its object, it is the first attempt as yet made by this Government to exercise such authority; and its constitutionality struck him in a doubtful point of view; for in no part of the constitution could he, in express terms, find a power given to Congress to grant bounties on occupations: the power is neither directly granted, nor (by any reasonable construction that he could give) annexed to any other power specified in the constitution. It might perhaps be brought in under a mode of construction already adopted by the House, viz: that of "ways and ends," by which any power whatever might be equally implied; but he wished ever to see some connection between a specified power, and the means adopted for carrying it into execution. There is a great difference between giving encouragement, and granting a direct bounty. Congress have a right to regulate commerce; and any advantage thereby resulting to a particular occupation connected with commerce, comes within that authority; but when a bounty is proposed to a particular employment or occupation, this is stepping beyond the circle of commerce; and such a measure will affect the whole manufacturing and agricultural system. In all cases, the revenue, to be employed in this bounty, is drawn from all the sources of revenue in the United States, and confined to a particular object. He was averse to bounties in almost every shape, as derogations from the common right; and he thought there would be no great difficulty in proving, that a government is both unjust and oppressive in establishing exclusive rights, monopolies, &c., without some very substantial merit in the persons to whom they are granted; although even in that case, the propriety of such grants is still questionable. Under a just and equal government, every individual is entitled to protection in the enjoyment of the whole product of his labor, except such portion of it as is necessary to enable Government to protect the rest; this is given only in consideration of the protection offered. In every bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a regulation, the product of one man's labor is transferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The exercise of such a right on the part of Government can be justified on no other principle, than that the whole product of the labor of every individual is the real property of Government, and may be distributed among the several parts of the community by governmental discretion; such a supposition would directly involve the idea that every individual in the community is merely a slave and bondman to Government, who, although he may labor, is not to expect protection in the product of his labor. An authority given to any government to exercise such a principle, would lead to a complete system of tyranny.
He entertained fewer doubts, respecting the principle, as it regards political economy. All occupations that stand in need of bounties, instead of increasing the real wealth of a country, rather tend to lessen it; the real wealth of every country consisting in the active product of useful labor employed in it. It is therefore bad policy to encourage any occupation that would diminish, instead of increasing the aggregate wealth of the community; and if an occupation is really productive, and augments the general wealth, bounties are unnecessary for its support; for when it reimburses the capital employed, and yields a profit besides, it may be said to support itself. When it fails in these points, any forced advantage that is given to it by the Government, only tends to decrease the wealth of the country. The subject, however, might be considered in a more favorable point of view: and that is, whether the provision be essential to the defence of the United States, and whether the bounties proposed in the bill were more than equivalent to the portion of defence that would be procured by them. The bill does not (in his opinion) contain that kind of encouragement, which is essential to the national defence. Any man who takes a view of this country, must be convinced that its real support rises from the land, and not from the sea; and the opposite mistake must have arisen merely from a servile imitation of the conduct of Great Britain: the inhabitants of this country heretofore thought favorably of her Government, and the Revolution has not yet altered their former ideas respecting it. But the circumstances of the two countries will, on examination, be found widely different; Britain, surrounded by the sea on every side, finds a navy necessary to support her commerce; whilst America, possessed of an immense territory, and having yet ample room to cultivate that territory, has no occasion to contend by sea with any European power: her strength and her resources are all to be found within the United States; and if she but attends to her internal resources, the object of national defence will be much better answered.
Mr. G. next proceeded to consider whether that portion of the national defence which might be derived from the fisheries, would not be purchased at too high a price. Although the apparent intention of the bill is only to convert the present existing drawbacks into a bounty; yet the drawbacks being allowed only to the actual exportation of the fish, and the bounty being granted on the tonnage of the fishing vessels, there can be no comparative value between the drawback and the bounty; they have no necessary relation to each other, and the latter may exceed the former, or the former exceed the latter. He had made a calculation, and upon the most favorable principles, grounded on the Reports of the Secretary of the Treasury and the Secretary of State. Here he produced a calculation, tending to show that the proposed bounty on the tonnage of the fishing vessels, would considerably exceed the amount of the present drawbacks. From a comparison between the bounty, and the number of sailors employed in the fisheries, he showed what an expense each man would be to the United States; and, after other remarks, observed, that even Great Britain, whose whole national support and defence depends on her navy, had found, that the men employed in the fisheries, though so necessary for that defence, had cost her too much; that America, whose consequence, as a nation, does not depend on a navy, ought to take a lesson from the experience of Britain: that he did not wish to enter into a competition with Britain and France, in supplying the different markets with fish; that, as those nations are able to hold out greater encouragement to their fishermen, than we can to ours, we would, by such a competition, only exhaust the Treasury of the United States to no purpose; and upon this principle alone, he thought there was some reason to doubt the policy of the measure proposed in the section under consideration, which therefore he hoped the committee would agree to strike out, unless his objection could be obviated.
Mr. MURRAY observed, that in order to demonstrate the propriety of the measure, it would be incumbent on the friends of the bill, first, to prove that the fishery trade is in a state of decay, that the stock employed in it does not yield the ordinary profits, so as to justify the merchants in embarking their capital in this branch of trade: that there is a system of defence in contemplation, which the circumstances of the country call for, and which this trade is calculated to furnish; that other branches of trade, which do not stand in need of encouragement, are not equally capable of furnishing seamen for the purpose: that this particular object so peculiarly claims the attention and encouragement of the United States, as to leave far behind every consideration of the manufacturing interest, the agricultural, &c. All this he thought necessary for gentlemen to prove, and to show some very strong necessity for encouraging one particular class of men, in preference to all others.
Mr. GOODHUE.--It happens that the fisheries of the United States are almost entirely confined to the State of Massachusetts; and they furnish a considerable, a principal portion of our export trade. As we are a part of the United States, the United States in general are interested in the prosperity of that branch of business, so far at least as it contributes to the national defence: it furnishes a copious nursery of hardy seamen, and offers a never-failing source of protection to the commerce of the United States. If we engage in a war with any European power, those seamen will be excluded from their ordinary employment, and must have recourse to privateering. During the late war with Great Britain, we annoyed the enemy more in that line than in all others; and had it not been for privateering, it would often have been impossible to keep together our armies, who frequently, in the hour of need, were supplied by the privateers with ammunition and clothing, of which they were wholly destitute. All that we wish to obtain by this bill is, that we may not be burdened with duties. An opinion has been entertained, that no drawbacks ought to be allowed on the re-exportation of articles imported from foreign countries; but if this opinion were to obtain in practice, and no drawbacks were to be admitted, we must confine our importation to articles for our own consumption. The drawback allowed by the existing law, on the exportation of salt fish, was calculated to be only equal to the duty beforehand paid on the quantity of salt used in curing the fish; but the fishermen complain that, as the act now stands, they are wholly excluded from any participation in the benefit, which centres entirely in the coffers of the merchants. The object of the present bill is, only to repay the same money into the hands of those persons who are immediately concerned in catching the fish; and there can no reasonable objection be made to such a transfer of the drawback, as Government will not lose a single dollar by the change. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. GILES) talks of the unconstitutionality of granting bounties; but no bounty is required. We only ask, in another mode, the usual drawback for the salt used on the fish. If we can make it appear that the bill does not contemplate any greater sums to be drawn from the Treasury, than are already allowed, it is to be hoped that no further opposition will be made to the measure; and that this is really the case, can be proved by documents from the Treasury office. Here he read a statement and calculation to prove his assertion; and to show that the United States will probably pay one thousand dollars per annum less in the proposed bounties on the tonnage of the fishing vessels, than they would in the drawbacks on the exportation of the fish. The fishermen, he continued, are now under no control; and in consequence of this want of a proper restraint, they often take whims into their heads and quit the vessels during the fishing season. To prevent the inconveniences of this practice, the bill contemplates their exclusion from the bounty, unless they enter into such contracts and regulations, as may be found necessary for the proper and successful conducting of the business, which, from our advantageous situation, would be entirely in our hands, if we did not meet with such opposition and discouragement from foreign nations, whose bounties to their own fishermen, together with the duties laid upon our fish, would, to persons less advantageously situated than us, amount almost to a total prohibition.
In the Report from the Secretary of State, a drawback is contemplated of the duties on all foreign articles, used by the seamen employed in the fishing trade, such as coffee, rum, &c.; but we ask it on the salt alone; nor is it asked as a bounty, but merely as a transfer from the hand of the merchant to that of the fishermen.
Mr. WHITE had no objection to give the trade a proper degree of encouragement; but he did not relish the idea of granting bounties; if any gentleman would prepare an amendment, so as to make them drawbacks in fact, as well as in words, he would consent to the measure.
Mr. AMES, after some introductory observations, adverted to the necessity of fixing some point in which both sides would agree. Disputes, he said, could not be terminated--or, more properly, they could not be managed at all, if some first principles were not conceded. The parties would want weapons for the controversy.
Law is in some countries the yoke of government, which bends or breaks the necks of the people; but, thank Heaven, in this country, it is a man's shield--his coat of mail--his castle of safety. It is more than his defence: it is his weapon to punish those who invade his rights--it is the instrument which assists--it is the price that rewards his industry.
If I say that fishermen have equal rights with other men, every gentleman feels in his own bosom a principle of assent. If I say that no man shall pay a tax on sending his property out of the country, the constitution will confirm it; for the constitution says, no duty shall be laid on exports. If I say, that on exporting dried fish, the exporter is entitled to drawback the duty paid on the salt, I say no more than the law of the land has confirmed. Plain and short as these principles are, they include the whole controversy. For I consider the law allowing the drawback as the right of the fishery, the defects of that law as the wrong suffered, and the bill before us as the remedy. The defects of the law are many and grievous. Supposing 340,000 quintals exported----
The salt duty is $42,744 The drawback is only 34,000 -------- Loss to the fishery 8,744
Whereas Government pays $45,900, at 13-1/2 cents, including charges, which are 3-1/2 cents on a quintal: which is beyond what the fishery receives 11,900 -------- Being a clear loss to the Government of 3,156
So that, though the whole is intended for the benefit of the fishery, about one-fourth of what is paid is not so applied: there is a heavy loss both to Government and the fishery. Even what is paid on the export is nearly lost money; the bounty is not paid till the exportation, nor then, till six months have elapsed; whereas the duty on salt is paid before the fish is taken: it is paid to the exporter, not to the fisherman. The bounty is so indirect, that the poor fisherman loses sight of it. It is paid to such persons, in such places, and at such periods, as to disappoint its good effects; passing through so many hands, and paying so many profits to each, it is almost absorbed. The encouragement, too, is greatest in successful years, when least needed; and is least in bad fishing seasons, when it is most needed. It is a very perplexed, embarrassing regulation to the officers of Government and to the exporter; hence the great charge: and, with all this charge and trouble, it is liable to many frauds. Four hundred miles of coast, little towns, no officer. All these defects the bill remedies; and, besides, gives the money on condition that certain regulations are submitted to, which are worth almost as much as the money.
The bill is defended on three grounds. First, it will promote the national wealth; second, the national safety; third, justice requires it: the last is fully relied on.
To show that the fishery will increase the wealth of the nation, it cannot be improper to mention its great value. The export before the war brought more than a million of dollars into this country; probably it is not less at present, and no small part in gold and silver. It is computed that thirty thousand persons, including four thousand seamen, subsist by it. Many say, very composedly, if it will not maintain itself, let it fall. But we should not only lose the annual million of dollars which it brings us; an immense capital would be lost. The fishing towns are built on the naked rocks, or barren sands, on the side of the sea. Those spots, however, where trade would sicken and die--which husbandry scorns to till--and which nature seems to have devoted to eternal barrenness, are selected by industry to work miracles on. Houses, stores, and wharves, are erected, and a vast property created, all depending on this business. Before you think it a light thing to consign them to ruin, see if you can compute what they cost; if they outrun your figures, then confess that it would be bad economy, as well as bad policy, to suffer rival nations to ruin our fishery. The regulations of foreign nations tend to bring this ruin about. France and England equally endeavor, in the language of the Secretary of State, to mount their marine on the destruction of our fishery. The fishers at Newfoundland are allowed liberal bounties by the English Government; and, in the French West Indies, we meet bounties on their fish and duties on our own, and these amount to the price of the fish. From the English islands we are quite shut out; yet such is the force of our natural advantages, that we have not yielded to these rivals. The Secretary of State has made these statements in his Report.
The more fish we catch, the cheaper; the English fish will need a greater bounty: whereas if we should yield, the English would probably need no bounty at all; they would have the monopoly. For example; suppose the English can fish at two dollars the quintal--we catch so much that we sell at one dollar and two-thirds: the loss to them is one-third of a dollar on each quintal. They must have that sum as a bounty. Whereas, if we increase our fishery, a greater and a greater bounty is needed by foreign nations. The contest so painfully sustained by them must be yielded at last, and we shall enjoy alone an immense fund of wealth to the nation, which nature has made ours; and though foreigners disturb the possession, we shall finally enjoy it peaceably and exclusively. If the lands of Kentucky are invaded, you drive off the invader; and so you ought. Why not protect this property as well? These opinions are supported by no common authority. The State of Massachusetts having represented the discouragements of the fishery, the subject has received the sanction of the Secretary of State; he confirms the facts stated in the petition; he says it is too poor a business to pay any thing to Government.
Yet, instead of asking bounties, or a remission of the duties on the articles consumed, we ask nothing but to give us our own money back, which you received under an engagement to pay it back, in case the article should be exported. If nothing was in view, therefore, but to promote national wealth, it seems plain that this branch ought to be protected and preserved; because, under all the discouragements it suffers, it increases, and every year more and more enriches the country, and promises to become an inexhaustible fund of wealth.
Another view has been taken of the subject, which is drawn from the naval protection afforded, in time of war, by a fishery. Our coasting and foreign trade are increasing rapidly; but the richer our trade becomes, the better prize to the enemy: so far from protecting us, it would be the very thing that would tempt him to go to war with us. As the rice and the tobacco planter cheerfully pay for armies, and turn out in the militia to protect their property on shore, they cannot be so much deceived as to wish to have it left unprotected when it is afloat; especially when it is known that this protection, though more effectual than the whole revenue expended on a navy could procure, will not cost a farthing; on the contrary, it will enrich while it protects the nation. The coasters and other seamen, in the event of a war, would be doubly in demand, and could neither protect themselves nor annoy the enemy to any considerable degree; but the fishermen, thrown out of business by a war, would be instantly in action. They would, as they formerly did, embark in privateers; having nothing to lose, and every thing to hope, they would not dishonor their former fame. Their mode of life makes them expert and hardy seamen. Nothing can be more adventurous. They cast anchor on the banks, three hundred leagues from land, and with a great length of cable ride out the storms of winter. If the gale proves too strong they often sink at their anchors, and are food for fish which they came to take: for ever wet, the sea almost becomes their element. Cold and labor in that region of frost, brace their bodies, and they become as hardy as the bears on the islands of ice: their skill and spirit are not inferior: familiar with danger, they despise it. If I were to recite their exploits, the theme would find every American heart already glowing with the recollection of them; it would kindle more enthusiasm than the subject has need of. My view is only to appeal to facts, to evince the importance of the fishery as a means of naval protection. It is proper to pass over Bunker's Hill, though memorable by the valor of a regiment of fishermen; nor is it necessary to mention, further, that five hundred fishermen fought at Trenton.
It is known, that the privateers manned by fishermen, in want of every thing, not excepting arms, which they depended on taking from their enemies, brought into port warlike stores of every kind, as well as every kind of merchandise sufficient for the army and country: the war could not have been carried on without them. Among other exploits almost beyond belief, one instance is worth relating: these people, in a privateer of sixteen guns, and one hundred and fifty men, in one cruise took more than twenty ships, with upwards of two hundred guns, and nearly four hundred men. The privateers from a single district of Massachusetts, where the fishery is chiefly seated, took more than two thousand vessels, being one third of the British merchant vessels, and brought in near one thousand two hundred. A hundred sail of privateers, manned by fishermen, would scour every sea in case of a war.
The first question is, how much does Government receive by the duty on the salt used in curing the fish which is exported? The quantity of fish must be known. Several ways of information are to be explored. The Secretary of State supposes the fish of 1790 to be 354,276 quintals. A Treasury return of fish exported from August 20, 1789, to September 30, 1790, which is thirteen and one-third months, is 378,721 quintals. For a year, equal to 340,849 quintals.
Foreign dried fish imported from August 15, 1789, to August, 1790, 3,701 quintals; five per cent. drawback thereon is only three hundred and ten dollars, at one dollar and sixty-six cents per quintal. Mr. GILES is mistaken in supposing that foreign fish deducts $16,000 from our estimate. Return of fish in seven months, from May 30, to December, 1790, exported, all fish of the United States, 197,278 quintals: which, for a year, is 338,184 quintals. The medium may be fairly taken for the time past at 340,000 quintals a year.
Six gentlemen of Marblehead certify, that 5,043 hogsheads, or 40,344 bushels of salt, were used on 38,497-1/2 quintals; which, for 340,000 quintals, gives 356,200 bushels. The duty, at twelve cents, is $42,744, which Government receives. But the charge to the United States, is, at thirteen and a half cents per quintal
$45,900 Whereof the fishery receives ten cents on each quintal exported 34,000 ------ Charges as the law stands 11,900
Further, this is but an estimate made up from what the last year proved. The next may be very different, and probably it will be. If more money should be demanded than $44,000, we must not be accused of misleading Congress. But in that case an increase would be made by law; for the more fish is exported, the more thirteen and a half cents must be paid; so that the bill creates no burden in that way. But the increase of the export of fish will probably operate in favor of Government. For it is known that the economy, skill, and activity of the fishery are making progress. Its success has progressed. The more fish to a vessel, the cheaper the allowance on the tonnage. Therefore, the tonnage of vessels will not increase in a ratio with the increase of the fish.
The very objections prove this. For they deem the encouragement too great. But any encouragement must have the effect.
The difference of the agreements for distributing the fish according to the present practice, or by this bill, makes a great one in the quantity taken. The bill reforms the practice in this point. Marblehead vessels take less than those from Beverly. The former throw the fish into a common stock, which is afterwards divided upon a plan very unfriendly to exertion. A man works for the whole--perhaps twelve hours, and they take about eight hundred quintals to a vessel. But in Beverly, the exertion is as great as can be made; eighteen hours a day, because each man has what he catches, and they catch eleven hundred quintals.
Marblehead seamen sailing from other towns, and dividing as last mentioned, which the bill establishes, seldom fail to catch two or three hundred quintals more than vessels and men from Marblehead on the first plan. Accordingly, I assert on good authority, that the increase in Marblehead only may be computed at fifteen thousand quintals, merely in consequence of the reform by the bill. The best informed persons whom I have consulted, entertain no doubt that the export, in case the bill should pass, would not be less than four hundred thousand quintals, probably more; but at four hundred thousand quintals, it would add seven thousand two hundred dollars more to the salt duty; a sum more than equal to any estimate of the actual tonnage, or any probable increase of it
$42,744 7,200 ------ Salt duty on 400,000 quintals 49,944
Other facts confirm the theory, that skill and exertion are increasing in this business.
In 1775, 25,000 tons, 4,405 seaman. Fish sold for $1,071,000. In 1790, three-fourths of the seamen and three-fourths of the tonnage take as much fish. It is owing to this that our fishery stood the competition with foreign nations.
Finally, the average in future may be relied on not to be less than 350,000 quintals.
Salt duty on which $43,944 Bounties 44,000 ------ Wanted 56
The calculations first made will answer the purpose,
340,000 quintals pay salt duty $42,744 Tonnage bounty 44,000 ------ Wanted 1,256
This is the mighty defect. Observe the authentic return of the export of fish may be, and we can almost prove it to be, below the future export. Whereas, to banish all doubt, we go to the top of the scale for the tonnage, we take what we know to be the utmost. This we might have represented more favorably if we had chosen to conceal any thing. But even this will answer our purpose.
For two hundred tons are wanting in the estimate of the bounties, being nineteen thousand eight hundred, not twenty thousand, which will take off one-third of the deficient sum.
The tonnage over sixty-eight, which receives nothing, is not mentioned; and which probably is not less than another third.
The boats under five tons, though trifling, are to be noticed--they receive nothing.
But, above all, the chances of non-compliance with the regulations are in favor of the remainder of the twelve hundred and fifty-six dollars being stopped. Boats may not get twelve quintals to the ton, or vessels may have their voyages broken up, and not stay four months on the fishing ground; in either case they would receive nothing. Take all these together, is it not to be doubted that twelve hundred and fifty-six dollars will remain of the forty-four thousand in the Treasury?
But these are trifles which I cannot believe gentlemen are anxious about.
For the event cannot be reduced to a certainty. What quantity of fish will be exported, no man can tell now. But as Government may receive more than it will pay, the chance may turn the other way, and it may have to pay a few hundred dollars more than it will have received. We have seen that the chance is most in favor of Government. But one chance must balance the other. This answer is sincerely relied on as a good one.
I barely mention that the wear of cordage, cables, sails, and anchors, is very great. These articles, on being imported, pay duties. So that it is probable the extra duty paid by the fishery on their extra consumption, will overbalance any little sums supposed to exceed in the bounty.
It has been asked, as if some cunning was detected, why if the money received in the Treasury to pay the drawbacks is equal to the proposed bounties, a further appropriation should be made? This cunning question admits of several very simple answers.
The bill being for seven years, the average product is the proper sum to be calculated. But the three first years may fall short of the bounties, say two thousand dollars a year, which is six thousand dollars.
The four last may exceed two thousand dollars, say eight thousand dollars.
Shall a poor fisherman wait for the whole, or if he takes his part according to the money in the Treasury--for a twenty-fourth part of the bounty on his vessel, from 1792 to 1795?
2d. This delay would happen after a bad year, the very time when he would most need prompt pay.
3d. But fish taken this year will not be exported till December next. Therefore the money will not be stopped by the drawback as the law stands, till six months after.
A substitute has been proposed for the clause, to appropriate the drawback only.
This is absolutely improper. For the ten cents allowed as drawback is but a part of the duty paid on salt. It is not easy to see any reason why a part stopped at the Treasury should be equal to the whole paid there long before. The drawback falls near nine thousand dollars short of the salt duty received by the Government. The expense of the drawback would be very heavy and useless.
Nor may gentlemen apprehend that Government, by paying next December, will advance money to the fishery. The salt duty will have been paid, and Government will have the use of the money many months before the fishermen will have a right to call for the bounties.
It is left to the candor of the gentlemen who have urged this objection, whether a better or further answer is desired.
After having laboriously gone through the estimate of the probable export of fish, it will not be necessary to be equally minute as to the quantity or kind of vessels which are to receive the bounty.
The estimate we believe to be very high. That it is high enough, we suppose very probable from the estimate of the Secretary of State, which is only nineteen thousand one hundred and eighty-five tons.
This mode of paying the bounty on the tonnage is very simple and safe. The measurement is already made and costs nothing; and as it was made to pay a duty on tonnage, we are very sure that Government will not be cheated by an over-measure. The mode of paying the drawback, as the law now stands, is expensive, perplexed and embarrassing; liable to frauds and delays.
This intricate and disgusting detail of calculations was necessary to satisfy the committee that each of the three grounds of defence on which the bill rests, is tenable.
Instead of impoverishing the nation by scattering the treasures of the whole to benefit a part, it appears that we are preserving a mine of treasure. In point of naval protection, we can scarcely estimate the fishery too highly. It is always ready, always equal to the object; it is almost the only sufficient source of security by sea. Our navigation is certainly a precious interest of the country. But no part of our navigation can vie with the fishery in respect to the protection it affords. There is no point which regards our national wealth or national safety, in respect to which it seems practicable to do so much with so little.
We rely on the evidence before you, that the public will not sustain the charge of a dollar. Those ought not to doubt the evidence who cannot invalidate it. If then the fishermen ask you to restore only their own money, will you deny them? Will you return to every other person exporting dutied goods the money he has paid, and will you refuse the poor fisherman?
If there must be an instance of the kind, will you single out for this oppressive partiality, that branch which is described by the Secretary of State as too poor even to bear its own part of the common burden; that branch which nevertheless has borne the neglect of our nation, and the persecution of foreign prohibitions and duties; a branch which, though we have received much and expect more, both of money and services, urges no claims but such as common justice has sanctioned?
Mr. GERRY having moved to strike out the words "bounty allowed" in order to insert allowance made, by way of accommodation,
Mr. MURRAY observed, that the question was, whether a bounty should be given for the encouragement of the fishery: the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. GERRY) did not alter the principle--it was still "the old cocked hat" on the one hand, and on the other, "the cocked old hat:" the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. FITZSIMONS) had asserted, that Congress have a right to alter the drawbacks, and allow them in any other mode, by which the citizens may receive back their own money; but this is not a case of that nature; for the bill says, "in case the moneys appropriated (for the payment of the duties) shall be inadequate, the deficiency shall be supplied from the Treasury;" here the Treasury is pledged for the payment of the bounties; and the question is, not on the principle of changing the drawback, but the giving encouragement to a particular branch, at the expense of the community at large.
Mr. BARNWELL observed, that those who are best acquainted with the fisheries, look on the proposed mode of encouragement as the best; and that they ought to be allowed to use the gifts of the public in the most advantageous manner: that, if he were himself concerned in the cultivation of any particular commodity, for the encouragement of which a sum were granted, he would be much surprised to meet a refusal, in case he should come forward and propose some more effectual mode of applying that grant: that even if the bounties should happen to exceed the drawbacks, by eight or ten thousand dollars, the number of seamen to be maintained would be well worth that sum: that whenever the two Houses of Congress and the President of the United States are of opinion that the general welfare will be promoted by raising any sum of money, they have undoubted right to raise it, provided that the taxes be uniform; that although it may not at present be an object of great consequence to America to become a maritime power, yet it is of some importance to have constantly at hand a nursery of seamen, to furnish our merchants with the means of transporting their commodities across the sea; that, whatever allowance or bounty is granted upon any particular commodity, must ever be paid by the whole, for the advantage of a part, whether it be upon cotton to the Southward, upon fish to the Eastward, or upon other commodities to the Middle States; that if the people cannot have so much confidence in their Representatives, as to trust them with the power of granting bounties, the Government must be a very paltry one indeed. The object of the bill was only to allow to the fishermen, in the manner that would be most beneficial to them, the same sum that would otherwise be allowed. If, however, from time and experience, it should appear that this bounty proved an imposition on Government, he would not hesitate to revoke it.
Mr. GERRY.--The State of Massachusetts asks nothing more than equal justice. We do not come forward to request favors from the United States, we only wish that the same system which is applied to other parts of the Union, may be applied to us. But, in examining this question, we wish that gentlemen would not make distinctions which will not admit of a difference.
The proposed allowance has been called a bounty on occupation, and is said to be very different from that encouragement, which is the incidental result of a general commercial system; but in reality it is no bounty: a bounty is a grant, made without any consideration whatever, as an equivalent; and I have no idea of a bounty, which admits of receiving from the person, on whom it is conferred, the amount of what is granted. We have imposed a duty on salt, and thereby draw a certain sum of money from the fishermen; the drawback is, in all instances, the amount of the money received; this is all we ask; and we ask it for a set of men who are as well entitled to the regard of Government as any other class of citizens.
It has been supposed, that the allowance made to the fishermen, will amount to a greater sum than the drawback on the exportation of the fish; but I think it has been clearly shown that this will not be the case: on the contrary, it is presumable, that the drawback on the fish would on the whole exceed the sum which is proposed to be allowed to the fishermen; sometimes it might be more, sometimes less. The calculation is made on general principles; and it is impossible to calculate to a single cent: the quantity of salt to be expended on the fish, cannot be minutely ascertained; but this was not heretofore considered as a sufficient reason why Congress should refuse to allow the drawback; they allowed it, though in a different shape. It is now proposed to make a further commutation: gentlemen call this a bounty on occupation; but is there any proposition made for paying to the fishermen, or other persons concerned in the fishery, any sums which we have not previously received from them? If this were the case, it would indeed be a bounty; but if we beforehand receive from them as much as the allowance amounts to, there is no bounty granted at all.
If, however, it really was a bounty on occupation, it would after all be only an indulgence similar to what has been granted to the landed and agricultural interest. We have laid on hemp a duty of fifty-four cents per hundredweight; and on beer, ale, and porter, five cents per gallon. Now, I ask gentlemen, whether the professed design of those duties was to raise a revenue, or to prevent the importation of those articles? They were laid for no other purpose, than to prevent foreigners from importing them, and thereby to encourage our own manufactures; and was not that encouragement a bounty to the persons concerned in producing such articles in this country? If the duties had not been laid, the importer could sell much cheaper than he now can; and the landed interest would be under a necessity of selling cheaper in proportion. If those prohibitory duties operate as a bounty in favor of raising hemp, and of brewing beer, ale, and porter, I ask, whether, if a bounty were proposed on every quintal of fish, it might not, with the same propriety, be granted? If we have not a right to grant a bounty in the one case, we have as little right to grant it in the other.
A calculation has been offered to show that the proposed allowance will exceed the amount of the present drawbacks, by ten thousand dollars a year; but that calculation has been proved to be erroneous. Suppose, however, that this was the fact, what comparison is there between such a tax on the citizens of the United States, and the tax borne by the citizens of Massachusetts, for the defence of the Western frontier? A commercial war is waged against the American fisheries, by foreign nations, who lay heavy duties on the American fish, and apply the produce of those duties in bounties to their own fishermen; and their fisheries being less extensive than ours, the duty thus imposed on our fish, and bestowed in bounties to their vessels, operate in a twofold proportion to the discouragement of our fishermen, and the encouragement of theirs.
I wish to know on what principle gentlemen can expect, that the citizens of Massachusetts should contribute two hundred thousand dollars, or perhaps a greater sum, for the protection of the Western frontier against the Indians, when no contribution is made to support the commerce of Massachusetts, which, without this support, will be as effectually ruined, as if their vessels were captured by an enemy. The principle is carried farther with respect to the protection of the frontier: we have voted large sums as presents to the savages, to keep them friends to the frontier settlers; there is, however, no clause in the constitution that will authorize a measure of this kind: it is true, indeed, we have a power to regulate trade and commerce with the Indian tribes; but does that give us a power to render the United States tributary to the savages? and if we make them such grants every year, do we not in fact become tributary to them?
The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. GILES) says that although this plan of encouraging the fisheries may be wise policy in Britain, as being on all sides surrounded by the sea, yet the United States will not equally find their account in pursuing the same plan. The State of Virginia is, in point of exposure from the sea, very differently circumstanced from the State of Massachusetts: we have a vast extent of country four hundred and fifty miles of sea-coast, exposed; the citizens of all the towns along the coast are obliged to pursue marine occupations and I hope the gentleman does not wish that the country should be depopulated, and the inhabitants driven off to settle the Western territory.
The State of Virginia is very happily circumstanced with respect to a marine war: should such an event take place, that State is pretty secure from depredations; but when we consider how much the inhabitants of Massachusetts are exposed in a case of that kind, we ought to look forward, and make some provision for their defence: they have as good a right to expect that Government will make some arrangements for their protection, as that they shall be obliged to contribute for the defence of the Western frontier.
But their commerce, it seems, must not be supported! Taxes however must be laid; and those taxes applied to encourage the former, and to bribe the Indians into peace! Is this fair? Is this pursuing a liberal system of politics? Will this reconcile the minds of our people to the General Government? If so reasonable a proposition be neglected by the House, it will convince the citizens of that State, that it is the object of Government to destroy their commerce, and to make them entirely dependent on the agricultural interest.
Here Mr. GERRY read a statement, to show the diminution of the revenue in consequence of the failure of the fisheries; and added,
To support the fisheries, is to support the revenue: by that staple, the citizens of Massachusetts are enabled to pay the revenue that is expected from them; and, by an attempt to save ten thousand dollars, Government will probably sacrifice a hundred thousand; and besides, lose the confidence of the citizens of that State.
The only question now is, whether this be a direct bounty, or simply a commutation of the allowance already granted by Congress? If the latter be the case, I can see no reason why we should refuse our assent to a proposition, which is only calculated to do justice to the people concerned, and to give encouragement to a very important branch in the United States; especially as the proposition will even have a tendency to increase the revenue.
Mr. WILLIAMSON.--It has been urged with great propriety, in favor of the bill now submitted to our consideration, that the operation of our laws should in all cases tend to encourage useful industry; that while we are giving back the duties on all other foreign goods which are exported, it would be unjust and cruel to refuse a full drawback of the duties on salt which may be exported, especially when the circumstances of its exportation are attended with an increase of riches and strength to the nation. Impressed as I am with the force of these arguments, and desirous as I am to protect and encourage the native seamen of America, by all prudent, practicable, and constitutional means, I shall nevertheless find it my duty to vote for striking out the first section of the bill, because it proposes to give a bounty for the encouragement of the vessels employed in the fisheries.
We have been told that the name is improper; that it is simply a drawback of the duty upon salt; and gentlemen have produced a very ingenious calculation, by which they attempt to prove, that in some years it may happen that the whole duty on the salt will not be repaid; but they admit that in some years the drawback or bounty will exceed the duty. It is certainly their opinion--and in this we are perfectly agreed--that the money to be paid will be more than that received, else there had been no use for so large an appropriation. We shall not trouble the committee with calculations on this subject. It is conceded, that the encouragement to be given, probably will exceed the full drawback of the duty on salt. In other words, a douceur or a proper bounty is to be given: let us call it one thousand dollars per annum. Is it within the powers of this Congress to grant bounties? I think not; and on this single position I would rest the argument.
In the constitution of this Government there are two or three remarkable provisions, which seem to be in point. It is provided, that direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers. It is also provided, that all duties, imposts, and excises, shall be uniform throughout the United States; and it is provided, that no preference shall be given, by any regulation of commerce or revenue, to the ports of one State over those of another. The clear and obvious intention of the articles mentioned was, that Congress might not have the power of imposing unequal burdens; that it might not be in their power to gratify one part of the Union by oppressing another. It appeared possible, and not very improbable, that the time might come, when, by greater cohesion, by more unanimity, by more address, the Representatives of one part of the Union might attempt to impose unequal taxes, or to relieve their constituents at the expense of other people. To prevent the possibility of such a combination, the articles that I have mentioned were inserted in the constitution. Suppose a poll-tax should be attempted; suppose it should be enacted that every poll in the Eastern States shall pay a tax of half a dollar, and every poll in the Southern States should pay a tax of one dollar. Do you think we should pay the tax? No certainly. We should plead the constitution, and tell you that the law was impotent and void.
But we have been told, that Congress may give bounties for useful purposes; that is to say, they may give bounties for all imaginable purposes; because the same majority that votes the bounty will not fail to call the purpose a good one. Establish the doctrine of bounties, and let us see what may follow. Uniform taxes are laid to raise money, and that money is distributed--not uniformly; the whole of it may be given to the people in one end of the Union. Could we say, in such a case, that the tax had been uniform? I think not. There is certainly a majority in this House who think that the nation would be stronger and more independent, if all our labor was performed by free men. This object might be promoted by a bounty. Let a poll-tax be laid, according to the constitution, of one dollar per poll: in this case, sixty cents must be paid for each slave; and the number of slaves being 680,186, their tax would amount to $334,911. To encourage the labor of citizens, let Congress then give an annual bounty of one dollar to every free man who is a mechanic, or who labors in the field. We might be told that the bounty was small, and the object was good; but the measure would be most oppressive, for it would be a clear tax of rather more than three hundred thousand dollars on the Southern States.
Perhaps the case I have put is too strong--Congress can never do a thing that is so palpably unjust--but this, sir, is the very mark at which the theory of bounties seems to point. The certain operation of that measure is the oppression of the Southern States, by superior numbers in the Northern interest. This was to be feared at the formation of this Government, and you find many articles in the constitution, besides those I have quoted, which were certainly intended to guard us against the dangerous bias of interest, and the power of numbers. Wherefore was it provided that no duty should be laid on exports? Was it not to defend the great staples of the Southern States--tobacco, rice, and indigo--from the operation of unequal regulations of commerce, or unequal indirect taxes, as another article had defended us from unequal direct taxes?
I do not hazard much in saying, that the present constitution had never been adopted without those preliminary guards in it. Establish the general doctrine of bounties, and all the provisions I have mentioned become useless. They vanish into air, and like the baseless fabric of a vision, leave not a trace behind. The common defence and general welfare, in the hands of a good politician, may supersede every part of our constitution, and leave us in the hands of time and chance. Manufactures, in general, are useful to the nation; they promote the public good and general welfare. How many of them are springing up in the Northern States? Let them be properly supported by bounties, and you will find no occasion for unequal taxes. The tax may be equal in the beginning--it will be sufficiently unequal in the end.
We are told, that a nursery of seamen may be of great use to the nation, and the bounty proposed is a very small one. These, sir, are the reasons why I have marked this as a dangerous bill; the most dangerous innovations are made under these circumstances. To begin with a great bounty would be imprudent, and to give a small bounty for a doubtful purpose, might deserve a worse epithet. Half a million of dollars per annum would have been too much for a beginning, and perhaps a bounty on the use of sleighs, though they are convenient for travelling in winter; or a bounty on stone fences, though they are durable, would not at this time be prudent. The object of the bounty, and the amount of it, are equally to be disregarded in the present case; we are simply to consider whether bounties may safely be given under the present constitution. For myself, I would rather begin with a bounty of one million per annum than one thousand. I wish that my constituents may know whether they are to put any confidence in that paper called the constitution.
You will suffer me to say, that the Southern States have much to fear from the progress of this Government, unless your strength is governed by prudence. The operation of the funding system has translated at least two millions of dollars from the Southern States, that is to say, from Georgia, the Carolinas, and Virginia, to the Northern States. The interest of that sum, when it shall be six per cent., will be $120,000; but the quota of those States is at least one-third of the whole; whence it follows, that they must pay forty thousand dollars every year, in the form of interest to the Northern States. This, it seems, is not sufficient, and other measures are to be adopted for draining the Southern States. Bounties to promote the general welfare are already brought forward. We shall not hear of a bounty for raising rice, or preparing naval stores. If that was the question, the general welfare would not have such prominent features. Unless the Southern States are protected by the constitution, their valuable staples, and their visionary wealth, must occasion their destruction. Three short years has this Government existed--it is not three years--but we have already given serious alarms to many of our fellow-citizens. Establish the doctrine of bounties, set aside that part of the constitution which requires equal taxes and demands similar distributions, destroy this barrier, and it is not a few fishermen that will enter, claiming ten or twelve thousand dollars, but all manner of persons--people of every trade and occupation--may enter at the breach, until they have eaten up the bread of our children.
Perhaps I have viewed this project in too serious a light; but if I am particularly solicitous on the subject of finance, that we do not even seem to depart from the spirit of the constitution, it is because I wish that the Union may be perpetual. The several States are now pretty well relieved from their debts, and our fellow-citizens in the Southern States have very little interest in the national funds; press them a little with unequal taxes, and the remedy is plain.
While I would shun bounties, as leading to dangerous measures, I am not inattentive to every argument that has been advanced by the honorable member who first rose in defence of the bill. That gentleman tells us, that more than a bushel of salt is used in curing a quintal of fish. If this fact be established, the former act should be amended, by giving a greater drawback. He says the drawback, as it is now paid to the merchant, does not operate so as to encourage the seamen, who have most need of such assistance. This is very probable, and the parties may be relieved by dividing the drawback in the very manner that is proposed by the bill. If it is true that the proposed bounties will not exceed the average of the drawback that should be paid on salt, why do they contend about names, unless they are solicitous about the precedent? If our object is to encourage industry, and to increase our commerce, by sending fish to a foreign market, we must adhere to the drawback; for, according to the terms of the bill, the bounty is to be paid, though every fish that is caught should be consumed in the country; in which case we should be paying a visionary drawback, when nothing was exported. According to the terms of the bill, there is no proportion between the labor and the reward, so far as the bank fishery is concerned; the bounty in all cases being the same.
Having exercised your patience in objecting to this new system of bounties, and having hinted on some objections to the general operations of the bill, so far as industry and enterprise may be desired, I shall, in a few words, submit the outline of a plan that seems to comprehend all the useful parts of the bill, without any speculation upon bounties.
If the drawback on dried fish exported, is not equal to the duty on the salt used in curing such fish, let the drawback be increased to eleven cents or twelve cents, as the case may be. Let us suppose that the drawback for the next year will be equal to the drawback on the last year; and let that sum of money, being the expected drawback, be divided between the seamen and owners, according to the terms of the bill. The accounts must be made up annually. If the drawback exceeds the allowance that had been made, the difference will be considered as advanced to the fishery, and the allowance for the next year must be somewhat reduced, according to the actual amount of the drawback. If the fishermen are more fortunate or more active, and the exports are increased, the allowance for the next year must be raised. The rule being fixed by law, all that remains, being pure calculation, may be done from year to year by the Executive. Every important object of this bill, that has been presented to our view, may be obtained by safe and constitutional steps. Why should a man take a dangerous and a doubtful path, when a safe one presents itself? If nothing more is desired than to regulate and protect the fishery, the bill may be altered and accommodated to that purpose. If the theory of bounties is to be established, by which the Southern States must suffer while others gain, the bill informs us what we are to expect.
The committee now rose, without taking any question.
MONDAY, February 6.
A member from Maryland, to wit, JOHN FRANCIS MERCER, returned to serve in the room of WILLIAM PINKNEY, resigned, appeared, and took his seat in the House.
A petition of the tanners of the town of Newark, in the State of New Jersey, was presented to the House and read, stating the inconveniences they suffer from the erection of mills for the purpose of grinding tanners' bark for exportation, and praying that Congress will adopt such measures for their relief as may appear just and right. Ordered to lie on the table.
The Cod Fisheries.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act for the encouragement of the Bank and other Cod Fisheries, and for the regulation and government of the fishermen employed therein."
Mr. GOODHUE.--The gentleman last up (Mr. WILLIAMSON) says, that an appropriation of money being made by the bill now before us, and the Treasury standing pledged for the payment, therefore a direct bounty is granted. At present, we pay in drawbacks about $45,000; but we cannot say that this sum will be adequate to the payment of the drawbacks next year; for, if a greater quantity of fish be taken, a greater sum, of course, must be allowed; and, as the sum depends entirely on the quantity of fish, it is impossible to ascertain beforehand the precise amount. There is not, however, in the whole bill, any thing of a bounty except the bare name. The gentleman allows that we may commute the present drawbacks, and give them to the fisherman instead of the merchant; but it is impossible to do this with safety in any other mode than that pointed out in the bill. Shall we leave it to the fisherman, to be determined by his oath? This would not be advisable.
The plan proposed is a much less exceptionable one. It is founded on a calculation that a certain quantity of tonnage is employed in taking a certain quantity of fish. On this calculation the allowance is apportioned to the tonnage. If gentlemen think the allowance too high, let the sum be reduced; but let it not be stigmatized as a bounty. It is no such thing. The word "bounty" is an unfortunate expression, and I wish it were entirely out of the bill.
Mr. LIVERMORE.--The bill now under consideration has two important objects in view. The one is, to give encouragement to our fishermen, and, by that encouragement, to increase their numbers; the other is to govern those fishermen by certain laws, by which they will be kept under due restraint. Both these objects are of great importance to such persons as choose to employ their capitals in the fishery business. And I believe it will not be disputed that the business itself is of considerable importance to the United States, insomuch as it affords a certain proportion of remittance or exportation to foreign countries, and does not impoverish the country, but enriches it by the addition of so much wealth drawn from the sea.
It is the object of those gentlemen who favor the bill that the fishermen should have some encouragement, not given to them at the expense of the United States, but directed to them out of what was in the former law called a drawback of the duty on salt. The calculation, as I understand it, has been made as nearly as possible to give that drawback, not to the merchants who export the fish, but to the fishermen who take it, in order to increase that description of men, without whose assistance it is vain to expect any benefit from the fisheries; for, if the merchants at present engaged in that branch possessed the whole capital of the United States, yet, if they cannot get fishermen, they cannot carry on the fishery. This is done by a particular class of men, who must be not only expert seamen, but also accustomed to taking the fish and curing it. If these men cannot be had, the capital cannot be employed, and those who undertake the business cannot carry it on, or reap any profit from it.
Whilst the drawback is payable only to the merchant who exports the fish, it is impossible to convince the fishermen that they reap from it any advantage whatever; or, if the more discerning among them do perceive any advantage in it, the others who are not so clear-sighted cannot discern it, and are therefore not disposed to undertake the business. It is, however, of considerable importance to the merchants that the fisherman should receive a proper encouragement, even if they were obliged to allow him a bounty out of their own pocket.
The government of the fishermen, after their engagement in this business, is also necessary to be provided for; otherwise, frequent instances may occur among that class of men of quitting one vessel to embark on board another, or of shipping themselves for a foreign voyage, before the expiration of the fishing season. In the latter case, the vessel lies useless on the owner's hands, and he, together with the whole expense of the outfit, loses all his prospects of future gain.
The two objects here mentioned are fully provided for in the bill. Still, however, it is objected to. But what is the objection? It is, that the word "bounty" is twice used in this clause. Let us now see what advantage will result from striking out this obnoxious "bounty." None at all. The bill says it shall cease; and have gentlemen any objection to the bounty's ceasing? Since the bounty is to cease by this bill, what advantage in striking it out? The sense would still remain the same; and I do not know why we should make a law expressly to strike out the word "bounty," but to strike out the bounty itself.
It is strange to me that any gentleman, whether he is for giving a great bounty or no bounty at all, should quarrel with this unfortunate word. There is, indeed, one part of the section which I will readily consent to strike out, and I believe every other gentleman who is in favor of the bill will consent to it likewise; and that is the clause which provides that the bounty to be allowed and paid on every vessel for one season, shall not exceed one hundred and seventy dollars. If, when the vote is taken on the section, there does not appear a majority of the House in favor of striking out the whole, we may then move for striking out the proviso, if it be offensive to any gentleman. If it be not offensive, it may remain.
If gentlemen are disputing only because the word "bounty" is in the bill, they may be perfectly relieved from their uneasiness on that score; for the bill expressly says, "that the bounty now allowed upon the exportation of dried fish of the fisheries of the United States shall cease, and in lieu thereof," a different kind of encouragement is to be given. Here is no reason to dispute about a word. If gentlemen are disposed to consent to the principle of the bill, that the drawback of the duties on salt shall be commuted for a certain sum, to encourage the fishermen, they will vote in favor of the bill; if not, they will vote against it. But it is impossible for me to conceive why any gentleman under heaven should be against it. It is only fixing, for the merchants engaged in this branch, a clear and equitable ratio for distributing among the fishermen that encouragement which they think necessary in order to attach those people to the business, and to prevent them from going to other occupations on land. The bill is an important one, and will increase that branch of business, which is very useful to the community. It does not lay a farthing of bounty or duty on any other persons than those who are immediately concerned in it. It will serve them, and will not injure any body.
Mr. LAURANCE said, from examining the section, he conceived it contemplated no more than what the merchant is entitled to by existing laws. The merchant is now entitled to the drawback; but it is found by experience that the effect has not been to produce that encouragement to the fishermen which was expected; and he presumed the way was perfectly clear to give a new direction to the drawback, and this is all that is aimed at in the bill. He supposed that the clause had no necessary connection with the question which had been started respecting the right of the Government to grant bounties; but, since the question has been brought forward, it may be proper to consider it. In discussing the question, he inquired, What has Congress already done? Have we not laid extra duties on various articles, expressly for the purpose of encouraging various branches of our own manufactures? These duties are bounties to all intents and purposes, and are founded on the idea only of their conducing to the general interest. Similar objections to those now advanced were not made to these duties. They were advocated, some of them, by gentlemen from the Southward. He traced the effects of these duties, and showed that they operated fully as indirect bounties.
Mr. L. then adverted particularly to the constitution, and observed that it contains general principles and powers only. These powers depend on particular laws for their operation; and on this idea, he contended that the powers of the Government must, in various circumstances, extend to the granting bounties. He instanced, in case of a war with a foreign power, will any gentleman say that the General Government has not a power to grant a bounty on arms, ammunition, &c., should the general welfare require it? The general welfare is inseparably connected with any object or pursuit which in its effects adds to the riches of the country. He conceived that the argument was given up by gentlemen in opposition to the bill, when they admit of encouragement to the fishermen in any possible modification of it. He then adverted particularly to the fisheries, stated the number of men employed, the tons of shipping necessary to export the fish taken, and inferred the sound policy of encouraging so important a branch of business.
Gentlemen say that we do not want a navy. Grant it; but can they say that we shall never have a war with any European power? May not the time arrive when the protection to the commerce of this country, derived from this source, may be of the utmost necessity to its existence? Adverting to Mr. WILLIAMSON's objection from the unequal operation of bounties, and who had referred to the article of the constitution which says that taxes shall be equal in all the States, Mr. L. observed, that this article in the constitution could only respect the rates of the duties, and that the same duties should be paid in Virginia that are paid in New York--at the Northward as at the Southward. It surely could not mean that every individual should pay exactly the same sum in every part of the Union. This was a provision that no law could possible contemplate.
He concluded by a summary recapitulation of his arguments, and saying he hoped the section would be retained.
Mr. MADISON.--In the conflict I feel between my disposition on one hand to afford every constitutional encouragement to the fisheries, and my dislike, on the other, of the consequences apprehended from some clauses of the bill, I should have forborne to enter into this discussion, if I had not found, that over and above such arguments as appear to be natural and pertinent to the subject, others have been introduced which are, in my judgment, contrary to the true meaning, and even strike at the characteristic principles of the existing constitution. Let me premise, however, to the remarks which I shall briefly offer, on the doctrine maintained by these gentlemen, that I make a material distinction, in the present case, between an allowance as a mere commutation and modification of a drawback, and an allowance in the nature of a real and positive bounty. I make a distinction also, as a subject of fair consideration at least, between a bounty granted under the particular terms in the constitution, "a power to regulate trade," and one granted under the indefinite terms which have been cited as authority on this occasion. I think, however, that the term "bounty," is in every point of view improper as it is here applied, not only because it may be offensive to some, and in the opinion of others carries a dangerous implication, but also because it does not express the true intention of the bill, as avowed and advocated by its patrons themselves. For if, in the allowance, nothing more is proposed than a mere reimbursement of the sum advanced, it is only paying a debt; and when we pay a debt, we ought not to claim the merit of granting a bounty.
It is supposed by some gentlemen, that Congress have authority not only to grant bounties in the sense here used, merely as a commutation for drawbacks, but even to grant them under a power by virtue of which they may do any thing which they may think conducive to the "general welfare." This, sir, in my mind, raises the important and fundamental question, whether the general terms which had been cited, are to be considered as a sort of caption or general description of the specified powers, and as having no further meaning, and giving no further power than what is found in that specification; or as an abstract and indefinite delegation of power extending to all cases whatever; to all such, at least, as will admit the application of money, which is giving as much latitude as any government could well desire.
I, sir, have always conceived--I believe those who proposed the constitution conceived, and it is still more fully known, and more material to observe that those who ratified the constitution conceived--that this is not an indefinite Government, deriving its powers from the general terms prefixed to the specified powers, but a limited Government, tied down to the specified powers which explain and define the general terms. The gentlemen who contend for a contrary doctrine are surely not aware of the consequences which flow from it, and which they must either admit or give up their doctrine.
It will follow, in the first place, that if the terms be taken in the broad sense they maintain, the particular powers afterwards so carefully and distinctly enumerated would be without any meaning, and must go for nothing. It would be absurd to say, first, that Congress may do what they please, and then that they may do this or that particular thing; after giving Congress power to raise money, and apply it to all purposes which they may pronounce necessary to the general welfare, it would be absurd, to say the least, to superadd a power to raise armies, to provide fleets, &c. In fact, the meaning of the general terms in question must either be sought in the subsequent enumeration which limits and details them, or they convert the Government from one limited, as hitherto supposed, to the enumerated powers, into a Government without any limits at all.
It is to be recollected, that the terms "common defence and general welfare," as here used, are not novel terms, first introduced into this constitution. They are terms familiar in their construction, and well known to the people of America. They are repeatedly found in the old Articles of Confederation, where, although they are susceptible of as great latitude as can be given them by the context here, it was never supposed or pretended that they conveyed any such power as is now assigned to them. On the contrary, it was always considered as clear and certain, that the old Congress was limited to the enumerated powers, and that the enumeration limited and explained the general terms. I ask the gentlemen themselves, whether it ever was supposed or suspected that the old Congress could give away the moneys of the States in bounties, to encourage agriculture, or for any other purpose they pleased? If such a power had been possessed by that body, it would have been much less impotent, or have borne a very different character from that universally ascribed to it.
The novel idea now annexed to these terms, and never before entertained by the friends or enemies of the Government, will have a further consequence, which cannot have been taken into the view of the gentlemen. Their construction would not only give Congress the complete Legislative power I have stated--it would do more--it would supersede all the restrictions understood at present to lie on their power with respect to the Judiciary. It would put it in the power of Congress to establish courts throughout the United States, with cognizance of suits between citizen and citizen, and in all cases whatsoever. This, sir, seems to be demonstrable; for if the clause in question really authorizes Congress to do whatever they think fit, provided it be for the general welfare, of which they are to judge, and money can be applied to it, Congress must have power to create and support a Judiciary Establishment, with a jurisdiction extending to all cases favorable, in their opinion, to the general welfare, in the same manner as they have power to pass laws and apply money, providing in any other way for the general welfare. I shall be reminded, perhaps, that according to the terms of the constitution, the Judicial Power is to extend to certain cases only, not to all cases. But this circumstance can have no effect in the argument, it being presupposed by the gentlemen that the specification of certain objects does not limit the import of general terms. Taking these terms as an abstract and indefinite grant of power, they comprise all the objects of Legislative regulation, as well such as fall under the Judiciary article in the constitution, as those falling immediately under the Legislative article; and if the partial enumeration of objects in the Legislative article does not, as these gentlemen contend, limit the general power, neither will it be limited by the partial enumeration of objects in the Judiciary article.
There are consequences, sir, still more extensive, which, as they follow clearly from the doctrine combated, must either be admitted, or the doctrine must be given up. If Congress can apply money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may establish teachers in every State, county, and parish, and pay them out of the public Treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may undertake the regulation of all roads, other than post roads. In short, every thing, from the highest object of State legislation, down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress; for every object I have mentioned would admit the application of money, and might be called, if Congress pleased, provisions for the general welfare.
The language held in various discussions of this House, is a proof that the doctrine in question was never entertained by this body. Arguments, wherever the subject would permit, have constantly been drawn from the peculiar nature of this Government, as limited to certain enumerated powers, instead of extending, like other Governments, to all cases not particularly excepted. In a very late instance--I mean the debate on the Representation bill--it must be remembered, that an argument much urged, particularly by a gentleman from Massachusetts, against the ratio of one for thirty thousand, was, that this Government was unlike the State Governments, which had an indefinite variety of objects within their power; that it had a small number of objects only to attend to, and therefore that a smaller number of Representatives would be sufficient to administer it.
Several arguments have been advanced to show, that because, in the regulation of trade, indirect and eventual encouragement is given to manufactures, therefore Congress have power to give money in direct bounties, or to grant it in any other way that would answer the same purpose. But surely, sir, there is a great and obvious difference, which it cannot be necessary to enlarge upon. A duty laid on imported implements of husbandry, would, in its operation, be an indirect tax on exported produce; but will any one say, that by virtue of a mere power to lay duties on imports, Congress might go directly to the produce or implements of agriculture, or to the articles exported? It is true, duties on exports are expressly prohibited; but if there were no article forbidding them, a power directly to tax exports could never be deduced from a power to tax imports, although such a power might directly and incidentally affect exports.
In short, sir, without going further into the subject, which I should not have here touched on at all but for the reasons already mentioned, I venture to declare it as my opinion, that were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America; and what inferences might be drawn, or what consequences ensue from such a step, it is incumbent on us all well to consider.
With respect to the question before the House, for striking out the clause, it is immaterial whether it be struck out, or so amended as to rest on the avowed principle of a commutation for the drawback; but as a clause has been drawn up by my colleague, in order to be substituted, I shall concur in a vote for striking out, reserving to myself a freedom to be governed in my final vote by the modification which may prevail.
Mr. BOURNE, of Massachusetts--
Mr. Chairman: I think little can be added after so full a discussion of the subject before you. The object of the first section in this bill is intended for the relief of the fishermen and their owners. They complain that the law now in force was meant for their benefit, by granting a drawback on the fish exported; this they find by experience is not the case, for they say, that neither the fishermen who catch the fish, nor the importer of the salt, receive the drawback; and I rather suppose, sir, it is the case. The owners of the greater part of the fishing vessels are not merchants, neither do they import the salt they consume; but when the fish they take are cured for market, they are sold at the market price; and it frequently happens that those persons who purchase the fish are not the exporters of them, or the importers of the salt, but a third person, who purchases with a prospect of selling them at a profit, is the exporter; and when it so happens, neither the fisherman who catches the fish, nor the importer of the salt, receives any benefit from the drawback, unless the purchaser (the third person) give a greater price in contemplation of the drawback, which I think is not to be supposed.
Is it worthy the attention of Government that the cod fishery should be preserved? It appears to me that it is. When we consider the labor and assiduity bestowed on this object by our Ministers, at the settlement of peace between us and Great Britain, and the care then taken to secure this privilege, as appears by the treaty--[here Mr. B. read that part of the treaty which secures to us the fishery, he then proceeded]--and consider the struggle made to deprive us of this inestimable branch of commerce, I cannot suppose that any one would, at this day, voluntarily relinquish it, and suffer Great Britain to monopolize this branch, and supply the Mediterranean, French, and other markets. Great Britain, at present, enjoys a sufficient portion of this commerce, while France is confined to the narrow limits of St. Peters and Miquelon. If we relinquish this branch of the cod fishery, what is left us? Our whale fishery is nearly at an end, and unless Government speedily interpose, by granting relief, we shall totally lose it. Does not the British Government wish to deprive us of this branch also? Have not letters of agents been sent to the island of Nantucket, as well as New Bedford, where this branch of business is principally prosecuted, inviting the whale fishermen to remove, and offering them permanent settlements at Milford-Haven, at the expense of their Government? This must be viewed as a great encouragement, in addition to their bounties on oil, to a class of poor men employed in that business. If the cod fishery is relinquished, the fishermen have only to remove to the opposite shore of Nova Scotia, where they will find encouragement fully adequate to their services--of all which they are not unapprised. By encouraging this class of men, your revenue will be increased; for in return for the fish exported, you will receive sugar, coffee, cocoa, indigo, molasses, pimento, cotton, dye-woods, rum, wine, salt, fruit, and other articles subject to duty, and consumed in the country. And again, your Treasury will receive an excess by the provision in this bill; for I presume the greater proportion of vessels employed in this business are from twenty to forty tons; the town of Marblehead, perhaps, has principally large ones. Suppose, then, a vessel of thirty tons obtains, in a season, six hundred quintals of fish? (a very moderate voyage indeed,) her tonnage is seventy-five dollars; the drawback on exportation would be seventy-eight dollars; so that your Treasury retains three dollars gain by this bill, which would be a loss on the drawback.
Mr. Chairman, I think, upon the whole, that granting the encouragement to the fishermen and their owners, held out in the bill, would prove very beneficial to the United States; I hope, therefore, the section before you will not be struck out.
At this point, the committee rose, and had leave to sit again.
TUESDAY, February 7.
Ordered, That the petitions of the tanners of the town of Newark, in the State of New Jersey, which was presented yesterday, be referred to Mr. BOUDINOT, Mr. WHITE, Mr. THATCHER, Mr. BOURNE, of Rhode Island, and Mr. NILES; that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.
Mr. BENSON, from the committee appointed, presented a bill for an apportionment of Representatives among the several States, according to the first enumeration, and making provision for another enumeration, and apportionment of Representatives thereon, to compose the House of Representatives after the third day of March, 1797; which was received and read the first time.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, accompanying his report stating the amount of the subscriptions to the loans proposed by the act making provision for the public debt, as well in the debts of the respective States as in the domestic debt of the United States, and of the parts which remain unsubscribed, together with such measures as are, in his opinion, expedient to be taken on the subject, pursuant to an order of this House of the 1st of November last; which were read, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House on Monday next.
The Fishery Bill
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act for the encouragement of the Bank and other Cod Fisheries, and for the regulation and government of the fishermen employed therein."
Mr. PAGE said no man in this House was more heartily disposed to encourage the fisheries of the United States than he was; nor could any one more sincerely wish to encourage the bold, active, and enterprising adventurers in that branch of our commerce to persevere in it, than he did; being sensible of the importance of their traffic in peace, and of their defence of their country and annoyance of their enemies in war. But, sir, (said Mr. P.,) I much doubt whether Congress can give that encouragement to the fisheries to which they are entitled, and which policy would lead the General Government to give, were it not restricted by the constitution. I consider, sir, the constitution as intended to remedy the defects of the Confederation to a certain degree; so far only as would secure the independence and general welfare of the Confederated States, without endangering the sovereignty and independence of the individual States. Congress, therefore, was authorized to pay the debts of the Union, and to regulate commerce, partly for that purpose, and partly to prevent improper and dangerous commercial combinations, jealousies, and altercations between the States. But Congress was not intrusted with any regulation of exports which could admit of an interposition which might be dictated by partiality; nor was Congress permitted to lay any tax which could by any possibility operate unequally on the States in general. It is said, indeed, that, if a drawback be not allowed on the salt used in salting fish, there will be, in fact, a duty on the exportation of the fish. But to this I think it may be replied, that the constitution guards the exports of each State against the possibility of a partial restriction by Congress, or even by the States themselves; that Congress cannot lay a duty on the exportation of rice, indigo, tobacco, &c., or any other article exported from any State, because this might be done to the injury of the State where such duty would operate, and to the advantage and aggrandizement of some particular States, its competitors more favored by the General Government, or possessing more influence in the debates of Congress; and that the States are also individually restrained from laying such duties without the consent of Congress, to prevent acts which might produce jealousies, commercial combinations, and, perhaps, at length, civil dissensions. That this restriction, if it be intended to prevent partiality, therefore, cannot extend to authorize drawbacks, which may be productive of partial preferences and their consequent jealousies; that if drawbacks be granted at all, they ought to be universally extended to every article which is or can be exported from any of the States, having in its composition a dutiable ingredient; that hence, ships and other vessels, &c., should have drawbacks on the sails, cordage, iron, &c.; but it may also be said that, as to the duty on salt, that is amply repaid to the merchant by the price annexed to his fish; the sums laid out in salt and fish together form a capital on which he takes care to have a sufficient profit. Those merchants employed in this traffic, if allowed a drawback, would have a preference to other merchants, who import largely, pay heavy duties, and have no other advantage than the usual advance on their goods. The exporter of any article, with a drawback, must have an advantage over his fellow-citizens, who purchase through necessity many dutiable articles, and are obliged to consume them, without any other benefit than the use of them. I mention this because it has been said (by Mr. AMES) that, having made the men of Marblehead pay for salt, they have a right to demand the money expended in that salt on the exportation of their fish; for it would be as reasonable for the man who had ate his fish on which his salt was expended, or who had used any other article for which he had paid a duty, to claim of Congress a return of his money expended therein, as the exporter of fish. The only difference is, that, if both were paid the exact sum so expended by them, the exporter of fish would get twice paid. The purchaser or consumer of his fish would pay him for his salt therein, as if it were substantial fish, and the State for it as mere salt. Here, then, is a field for partiality, discontent, and complaints, which the constitution wisely guards against. It cannot, therefore, be to any purpose to tell us that a bounty, or allowance, as it is now called, is preferable to a drawback, as there is not so great room for fraud in the one as in the other; nor can it be of importance to show that the fishermen have not the profits to which they are entitled. That their services in the last war deserve rewards, &c., their country shared with them the glory of their gallant behavior; but they alone received the rewards they aimed at. The twelve hundred ships they took were a compensation for services and a reward for those exploits. It is true, they annoyed the enemy; it is certain their prizes sometimes fed, armed, and clothed our armies; but it is not said that they did not receive payment for furnishing those things.
But here we are asked, Is it not of great consequence to the United States to employ those bold, skilful seamen in our service, that we may enjoy the commercial advantage they give us in peace, and their powerful assistance in war? To this I reply, that it ought first to be proved that Congress has the power and authority to give them the encouragement demanded; and even if Congress have that power, it ought to be shown that it can be extended to the benefit of the sailors of some of the States, and not to those of every State. It may be said that Congress may with as much propriety give bounties to our hunters in the Western country, to raise up a nursery of soldiers as a barrier against the Indians, and to promote the fur trade, as to give drawbacks and bounties to the fishermen of the Eastern States, with a view to encourage fisheries, and to raise a nursery of seamen for their defence against enemies who may invade our Eastern frontiers. Indeed, if defence be the object in view, we might as well give bounties to sturdy landsmen to be in readiness and constant training for war.
Indeed, sir, I confess I am not altogether convinced, that, if Congress have this power, it ought to be thus exerted; because it is not clear to me that those fishermen would not be more profitable to the United States, if they were cultivating the lands which now lie waste, and raising families, which would be of ten times more value than their fisheries. A nursery of virtuous families, which will produce soldiers, sailors, husbandmen, and statesmen, must be preferable to a mere nursery of sailors, who generally live single, and often perish at sea. I always look upon the loss of a crew to an infant Republic as the loss almost of a new State.
I speak of this question, however, as a citizen of the United States, as a member of this House. Were I to discuss it as a citizen of Massachusetts, and in their Legislature, I should say, as the State is nearly filled with inhabitants, and our fishermen increase our commerce in peace, protect us in war, and, indeed, even enrich us by their prizes, it is our interest to encourage them to the utmost, and to prevent their going into the service of other countries. I might, therefore, as a member of the Legislature of that State, do all in my power to procure bounties for them, and indeed for all the sailors belonging to that State; but I should not think of applying to Congress for their assistance; not only because I doubt their right to afford it, but because I should look upon it as in some degree derogatory to the sovereignty and independence of the State. I should look upon such an interference of Congress as a step towards swallowing up the powers of the State Governments, and as consolidating the different States into one Government, which the wise and virtuous in every State always protested against as dangerous to their liberties; the fear of which consolidation prevented many good men from voting for the adoption of the new Government.
The framers of the constitution guarded so much against a possibility of such partial preferences as might be given, if Congress had the right to grant them, that, even to encourage learning and useful arts, the granting of patents is the extent of their power. And surely nothing could be less dangerous to the sovereignty or interests of the individual States than the encouragement which might be given to ingenious inventors or promoters of valuable inventions in the arts and sciences. The encouragement which the General Government might give to the fine arts, to commerce, to manufactures, and agriculture, might, if judiciously applied, redound to the honor of Congress, and the splendor, magnificence, and real advantage of the United States; but the wise framers of our constitution saw that, if Congress had the power of exerting what has been called a royal munificence for these purposes, Congress might, like many royal benefactors, misplace their munificence; might elevate sycophants, and be inattentive to men unfriendly to the views of Government; might reward the ingenuity of the citizens of one State, and neglect a much greater genius of another. A citizen of a powerful State, it might be said, was attended to, whilst that of one of less weight in the Federal scale was totally neglected. It is not sufficient to remove these objections, to say, as some gentlemen have said, that Congress is incapable of partiality or absurdities, and that they are as far from committing them as my colleagues or myself. I tell them the constitution was formed on a supposition of human frailty, and to restrain abuses of mistaken powers. The constitution has been said by some one to be, like answers of the oracles of old, capable of various and opposite constructions; that it has been ingeniously contrived, like some of them, to suit two events--a republican or a monarchical issue. I will not pretend to say that this is not, in some instances, too just an observation; nor will I undertake to deny that it was not the intention of some of the Convention that such ambiguities might be in their constitution, to correspond with the critical and ambiguous state of the American mind respecting government; but I will boldly affirm, that, whatever the theories of that day might lead some to think respecting the application of monarchical principles to the Government of the United States, no one can, at this day, pretend that they are applicable to their circumstances, their dispositions, or interests, or even are agreeable to the wishes of the people. Even before the adoption of the constitution, when the rights of men had not been so thoroughly investigated as they since have been, it must be remembered that whole States, and large and respectable minorities in other States complained of and objected to the aristocratical and monarchical features of the new Government. In vain did the friends of the new Government--friends of order, of union, or of liberty--contend that the powers granted by the constitution which appeared so alarming were such as would never be exerted but when all good men would acknowledge the necessity of exercising them, and that, indeed, they would be explained or restrained by some future amendments. The sagacious and eloquent HENRY shook his head at such promises, sighed and submitted to the will of the majority--a small one indeed--but foretold, from his knowledge of the human heart, what would be done and said in justification of every measure which might extend the power of Congress.
Is it politic and wise, then, Mr. Chairman, to exert the power contended for, even if it be authorized by the constitution? May not the interferences of Congress in the business of regulating the trade of the Eastern States, excite, if not envy on account of a supposed partiality, a jealousy lest Congress undertake to intermeddle in the commercial regulations of other States? May not Congress with equal propriety, undertake to regulate the tobacco, the rice, and indigo trade, as well as that of the fisheries? If they intermeddle in the business of sailors, why not in that of manufacturers and farmers? Where, I may ask with my colleague, may they not go on in their zeal, and, I may add, in their laudable pursuit, of promoting the general welfare--and how totally may they be mistaken? If jealousy of rival States, instead of mutual satisfaction and pleasure--if distrust and suspicion of Congress, instead of confidence in their measures, be the consequence--how will the Union be promoted, or the General Government secured? However virtuously disposed the present members may be, (and I am ready to applaud their honest intentions,) let them consider, sir, that they had better suppress their patriotic emotions, than give a pretext for their successors to abuse the powers which they now wish to exert for the public good. I know they will quote the opinion of as wise and virtuous a citizen as is in the United States. I know his patriotism, and know well his true Republican principles; but, sir, with the freedom of a fellow-citizen, I take the liberty of saying, that his honest zeal, like that of the friends of the bill, has led him into a mistake.[43] That able statesman and virtuous citizen, like the eloquent advocates of the bill, has considered the acts now quoted as a full sanction for the one before the committee. But I am of opinion, that those acts had better be repealed than give a sanction to the enacting of a law which goes to the establishing of bounties, or drawbacks, or by whatever other name they are called, which may be used to the partial encouragement of any branch of trade or employment whatsoever. I shall therefore vote against the bill before us, and, to get rid of it shall vote for striking out of it the first section, according to the motion now before the committee. As a member of this House, I shall think it my duty to protect the fisheries, and every other branch of our commerce, the fisherman as well as every other citizen, as far as may be within my ability; but I am not permitted, as a member of Congress, I humbly conceive, to select the fisheries and fishermen as objects of more consequence than any other branches of trade, or persons employed in them, lest Congress should not only show a mistaken attachment, or, even if judiciously placed, excite jealousies and discontents between the States, and distrust, destructive of their weight and influence. My constant wish has been to see Congress confined to such acts as would form a more perfect union, promote the general welfare, ensure domestic tranquillity, and engage the confidence of our fellow-citizens.
My wish is, that the members of Congress would leave their respective States in the full enjoyment of every right and privilege they held before their adoption of the new constitution, which can be exercised without prejudice to the General Government. Let the Legislatures of the different States encourage, as far as in their power, the commerce, agriculture, or manufactures of their respective States? and let Congress, as far as can be consistent with the most steady impartiality, patronize their patriotic exertions, by wise regulations of their commerce with foreign nations, such as may open as full an intercourse with those nations as the States may desire. The emulation of the sister States in commerce, manufactures, or agriculture, would lead to the early establishment of that branch of either to which each State might be best adapted. This rivalship could produce no jealousy, no general national discontent in the States, no localities in Congress. Virginia would not attempt to rival Massachusetts in her fisheries or carrying business, nor will South Carolina and Georgia rival the manufactories of New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Each State may rejoice to see its sister States enjoying the advantages with which Heaven has blessed them; and Congress, if confined to subjects which admit not of local considerations, may debate with temper and decide with unbiased judgment. I confess I have wished that Congress possessed the power that the friends of the bill tell us we do possess, and tell us we have exerted; but, on examining the constitution with a view to my wish, I found reason to think, not only that Congress has not that power, but that it ought not to possess it, unless the constitution was intended to establish a consolidated Government on the ruin of the State Legislatures; but this, I conceive, cannot be the case, because the constitution guarantees to the States their respective Republican Governments. The general powers of Congress, no doubt, ought to be (as they are) adequate to the purpose of forming a more perfect union than subsisted under the Confederation, to establish justice, &c.; but, as they are bound to guarantee to the States their respective Republican forms of Government, I cannot conceive how any of these powers can be employed, consistently with the ends for which they were given, in diminishing the power and sovereignty of the State Legislatures. How Congress can interfere in the regulations respecting the merchants and their sailors at Marblehead with more propriety than with those at Philadelphia, Norfolk, or Charleston, I cannot conceive; nor how this interference could take place without alarming those States, I know not. Viewing the bill before us in this light, Mr. Chairman, I shall vote against it, and, as I said before, to get rid of it, shall vote to strike out the first section, according to the motion now before the committee.
The question on striking out the first section was taken, and negatived--32 to 26.
WEDNESDAY, February 8.
A message was received from the President of the United States, together with a statement of certain articles of expense, which have occurred in the Department of Foreign Affairs, and for which no provision is made by law. [The expense alluded to was incurred for the relief of a number of American sailors, impressed in England to serve on board the British navy.] The message and accompanying papers were referred to a select committee, to examine and report.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, accompanying certain communications with the Executive of Virginia relative to the existing temporary defensive protection of the exposed frontiers of that State, pursuant to the orders of the President of the United States; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. WHITE, from the committee appointed, presented a bill providing for the settlement of the claims of persons under particular circumstances barred by the limitations heretofore established; which was read twice and committed.
Mr. BENSON, from the committee to whom was referred the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of Comfort Sands, and others, made a report; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
The Cod Fisheries.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act for the encouragement of the Bank and other Cod Fisheries, and for the regulation and government of the fishermen employed therein."
On a motion to strike out the words "bounty now allowed," and insert allowance now made, &c.--
Mr. GILES observed, that he conceived the vote of yesterday against striking out the first section, was a decision in favor of the policy of granting Governmental aid to the fisheries; the inquiry of to-day will be on what terms this aid shall be granted? He felt but little regret at the decision of yesterday, because he had himself previously contemplated some reasons, not unimportant, to justify that decision, and others had been suggested by several gentlemen in the course of the debate. The principles of this policy, he thought, however, might be combated by reasons of at least equal, and as far as he was able to judge, of paramount importance; but as he admitted considerable weight in the reasons on each side of the question, he was not particularly tenacious of the preference which his own opinion suggested. When he first mentioned his doubts respecting the principle of the bill, it was with diffidence, and those doubts in some measure arose from an idea that the bill contained a direct bounty upon occupation; upon a more minute examination, he thought the term bounty unnecessarily introduced into the bill, and that the object of it could be answered without the use of terms, which might hereafter be deemed to contain a decision upon the general principle of the constitutional right to grant bounties; it was to avoid any thing which might wear the appearance of such a decision, that induced him to make the present motion.
He proceeded to remark, that as great a difference of opinion often existed respecting the precise meaning of the terms used, as the consequences which flow from them after attaining such precision of meaning; and it is of importance to the present discussion that an accurate definition of the terms used in the bill, and those proposed to be used, should be had. The avowed object of the bill is not to increase, but to transmute the sum, or a portion thereof, now allowed to the fisheries in lieu of the drawback upon salt, from the merchant who is now supposed to receive the sole benefit, to the fishermen really employed in the fishing vessels. This is a mere chimerical project, but if it be admitted that this is the object to be effected by the bill, the term bounty is improperly applied.
A gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. AMES,) who rests the defence of this bill almost solely upon this position, that those who receive the benefit intended by it, are of right entitled to such benefit in consideration of a previous advancement in value, and that this bill contains a mere permission to them to retain their own, has at the same time declared, that he thought the term bounty the most proper and technical, to convey this idea. In this, the gentleman appears to have deviated from his usual accuracy. A bounty is the granting a benefit without a correspondent return in value; a drawback is the retaking of something in consideration of a previous advancement; this is always founded upon a consideration previously received--that is a grant of favor ex mero motu. But the great characteristic distinction between bounties and drawbacks as they essentially relate to the administration of this Government consists in the governmental objects to which they may severally be applied: drawbacks are necessarily confined to commercial regulations; bounties may be extended to every possible object of Government, and may pervade the whole minutiæ of police. They may not only be extended to commerce, but to learning, agriculture, manufactures, and even the sacredness of religion will be found too feeble to furnish complete protection from their influence. The people of the United States have always been scrupulously tenacious of a constitutional security for the most free and equal exercises of this right, but through the medium of bounties, even this right may be invaded, and the only security against such invasion must be governmental discretion. The same characteristic distinction will attend that species of bounty which may incidentally result from commercial regulations; and direct bounties upon occupation founded upon the broad basis of discretionary right. The specification in the constitution of the right to regulate commerce, may possibly in some cases give rise to this indirect species of bounty, not from any right in the constitution to grant bounties, but as the necessary result from the specified right to make commercial regulations; and this specification can be the only foundation of justification to this indirect species of bounty; but there is no specification in the constitution of a right to regulate learning, or agriculture, manufactures, or religion, and so far as the sense of the constitution can be collected, it rather forbids than authorizes the exercise of that right.
Arguments used to deduce any given authority from the term general welfare, abstractedly from the specification of some particular authority, are dangerous in the extreme to rights constitutionally reserved, and ought ever to be viewed with great caution and suspicion. They serve directly to show that this Government is not only consolidated in all its parts, but that it is a consolidated Government of unlimited discretion; that it contains no constitutional limitation or restriction. If any given authority be inferred from the term general welfare in the abstract, any other authority is equally deducible from it, because the term is applicable to every possible object of Government, and differs only in degree, as to the several Governmental objects.
He could not see the force of the novel and curious distinction taken by a gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. HILLHOUSE) between general welfare and particular welfare; for every particular welfare, however minute, may be in a degree for the general welfare, and if the decision respecting the existence of this distinction, have no other limitation than Congressional discretion, it is equally destructive of all constitutional restraint. Gentlemen who have advocated this principle of construction, appear startled at some consequences suggested to result from it, and have denied that they have made the admission of such consequences. This is true, nor have those in reply so asserted, but they have taken up the principles of construction furnished by its advocates, and made the application of it to the consequences which they themselves infer; and if the principle be admitted, it is undeniable that the conclusions drawn from it will necessarily follow in their utmost latitude.
A gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. BARNWELL) confidently spoke of the inherent rights of this Government; this is a new source of authority, and totally inapplicable to this Government. If there be inherent rights in governments at all, they must belong to governments growing out of a state of society, and not to a government deriving all its authorities by charter from previously existing governments, or the people of those governments. In such a government, the exercise of every authority not contained in the instrument, or deducible from it by a fair and candid construction, is an unjustifiable assumption and usurpation. He did not mean to analyze this subject further at this time, and had been led into these general remarks, because the impatience of the committee to have the question upon striking out the section had caused him to refrain from delivering these sentiments at that time.
He would remark further, that bounties in all countries and at all times, have been the effect of favoritism; they have only served to divert the current of industry from its natural channel, into one less advantageous or productive; and in fact, they are nothing more than governmental thefts committed upon the rights of one part of the community, and an unmerited governmental munificence to the other. In this country, and under this Government, they present an aspect peculiarly dreadful and deformed.
To contemplate the subjects upon which bounties are to operate in the United States, the nature of the Government to dispense them, the State preferences which now do and will for ever, more or less, continue to exist, the impossibility of an equal operation of bounties throughout the United States, upon any subject whatever, should be considered; and one of these two effects will necessarily follow the exercise of them; either the very existence of the Government will be destroyed, or its administration must be radically changed, it must be converted into the most complex system of tyranny and favoritism.
He observed, that it is not unfrequent at this time to hear of an Eastern and Southern interest, and he had for some time silently and indignantly seen, or thought he saw, attempts by this means to influence the deliberations of this House upon almost every important question. So far as he was the insulted object of these attempts, he felt that contempt for their authors, which appeared to him to be the correspondent tribute to the impurity of their designs; yet he thought that this had been the most formidable and effectual ministerial machine which had been yet used in the administration of Government. But one great mischief he apprehended from establishing the principle of the unrestrained right to grant bounties, will be, that it will make the difference of interest between Eastern and Southern, so far as they differ in their respective States of manufacture and agriculture, real, which is now only ideal. It will make that party real, which is now artificial. The jealousies and suspicions arising from party, will then have a substantial foundation, which now have no foundation in fact, but are ingeniously stimulated by a few, for the purpose of effecting particular objects; as long as the Government shall be administered liberally and impartially, as long as the principle of reciprocal demand and supply between East and South shall remain inviolate, so long there can exist no essential distinct interest between them; but the instant bounties or governmental preferences are granted to occupation, that instant is created a separate and distinct interest, not wholly between East and South, but between the manufacturer and the cultivator of the soil. There will still exist a community of agricultural interests throughout the United States, and he hoped the time was not far distant, when a common sympathy will be felt by the whole of that class of the community. For these reasons, he hoped the motion would prevail.
The bill having been gone through with, and amended, the committee rose and reported it with amendments which the House immediately took into consideration and adopted. The bill was then further amended and the House adjourned.
THURSDAY, February 9.
The Cod Fisheries.
The bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act for the encouragement of the Bank and other Cod Fisheries, and for the regulation and government of the fishermen employed therein," together with the amendments thereto, was read the third time; and the question being put that the same do pass, it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 38, nays 21, as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Jonathan Dayton, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, John W. Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Samuel Livermore, James Madison, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg Nathaniel Niles, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, Peter Sylvester, George Thatcher, Thomas Tredwell, John Vining, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward.
NAYS.--Messrs. John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, John Brown, William B. Giles, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, Philip Key, Nathaniel Macon, John Francis Mercer, Andrew Moore, William Vans Murray, John Page, Josiah Parker, Joshua Seney, John Steele, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.
Resolved, That the title of the said bill be, "An act concerning certain fisheries of the United States, and for the regulation and government of the fishermen employed therein."
Mr. LAURANCE presented a petition from the tanners and curriers of the city of New York, praying relief from the hardships they labor under, in consequence of the exportation of tanners' bark. Referred to a select committee.
WEDNESDAY, February 22.
Indemnity to Gen. Greene's Estate.
On a motion made and seconded, that the House do come to the following resolution:
"Whereas the late Major General Nathaniel Greene, on the eighth day of April, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three, the more effectually to procure rations, and supplies for the Southern Army of the United States, became bound as surety for John Banks & Company to Newcomen & Collet, merchants in Charleston, for the payment of eight thousand seven hundred and forty-three pounds fifteen shillings and sixpence, sterling money, being the condition of said bond:
"And whereas, on the first day of May, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-six, the balance of principal and interest of said bond, being then eight thousand six hundred and eighty-eight pounds six shillings sterling, was paid by the said General Greene: Therefore,
"Resolved, That the United States shall indemnify the estate of the said General Greene for the said sum last mentioned, and the interest thereof: Provided, The Executors of the said General Greene shall account for a sum, being about two thousand pounds, be the same more or less, received of John Ferrie, one of the partners of the said Banks & Company, to be in part of the indemnification aforesaid; and also shall make over, for the use of the United States, all mortgages, bonds, covenants, or other counter-securities whatsoever, now due, which were obtained by the said General Greene in his lifetime, from the said Banks & Company on account of his being surety for them as aforesaid, to be sued for in the name of the said executors, for the use of the United States:"
Ordered, That the said resolution be committed to a Committee of the whole House immediately.
The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the said resolution; and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose, reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.
SATURDAY, March 10.
Courtesies to France.
On a motion made and seconded, that the House do come to the following resolution:
"Resolved, That this House hath received, with sentiments of high satisfaction, the notification of the King of the French, of his acceptance of the constitution presented to him in the name of the Nation; and that the President of the United States be requested, in his answer to the said notification, to express the sincere participation of the House in the interests of the French Nation, on this great and important event; and their wish that the wisdom and magnanimity displayed in the formation and acceptance of the constitution, may be rewarded by the most perfect attainment of its object, the permanent happiness of so great a people."
It was moved and seconded that the said motion be committed. And on the question for commitment, it passed in the negative--yeas 17, nays 35.
And then debate arising on the said motion, a division thereof was called for. Whereupon,
The question being put, that the House do agree to the first part of the said motion, in the words following:
"Resolved, That this House has received, with sentiments of high satisfaction, the notification of the King of the French, of his acceptance of the constitution presented to him in the name of the Nation: And that the President of the United States be requested, in his answer to the said notification, to express the sincere participation of the House in the interests of the French Nation, on this great and important event:"
It was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 50, nays 2, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, William B. Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, Israel Jacobs, Philip Key, Aaron Kitchell, John W. Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, John Page, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Theodore Sedgwick, Joshua Seney, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, John Steele, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, Thomas Sumter, George Thatcher, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, John Vining, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Artemas Ward, Anthony Wayne, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.
NAYS.--Robert Barnwell and Egbert Benson.
On the question, that the House do agree to the second part of the said motion, in the words following:
"And their wish that the wisdom and magnanimity displayed in the formation and acceptance of the constitution, may be rewarded by the most perfect attainment of its object, the permanent happiness of so great a people:"
It was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 35, nays 16.
Ordered, That Mr. TUCKER, Mr. MADISON, Mr. MERCER, Mr. VINING, and Mr. PAGE, be appointed a committee to wait on the President of the United States, with the said resolution.
SATURDAY, March 24.
Establishment of a Mint.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled, "An act establishing a Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States." The following amendment being under consideration, viz:
"In the tenth section, strike out the words, 'Or representation of the head of the President of the United States for the time being, with an inscription, which shall express the initial or first letter of his Christian or first name, and his surname at length, the succession of the Presidency numerically,' and, in lieu thereof, insert, 'Emblematic of Liberty,' with an inscription of the word LIBERTY."
Mr. PAGE, in support of this motion said, that it had been a practice in monarchies to exhibit the figures or heads of their kings upon their coins, either to hand down, in the ignorant ages in which this practice was introduced, a kind of chronological account of their kings, or to show to whom the coin belonged. We have all read, that the Jews paid tribute to the Romans, by means of a coin on which was the head of their Cæsar. Now as we have no occasion for this aid to history, nor any pretence to call the money of the United States the money of our Presidents, there can be no sort of necessity for adopting the idea of the Senate. I second the motion, therefore, for the amendment proposed; and the more readily because I am certain it will be more agreeable to the citizens of the United States, to see the head of Liberty on their coin, than the heads of Presidents. However well pleased they might be with the head of the great man now their President, they may have no great reason to be pleased with some of his successors; as to him, they have his busts, his pictures every where; historians are daily celebrating his fame, and Congress have voted him a monument. A further compliment they need not pay him, especially when it may be said, that no Republic has paid such a compliment to its Chief Magistrate; and when indeed it would be viewed by the world as a stamp of royalty on our coins: would wound the feelings of many friends, and gratify our enemies.
Mr. WILLIAMSON seconded the motion also, and affirmed that the Romans did not put the heads of their Consuls on their money; that Julius Cæsar wished to have his on the Roman coin, but only ventured to cause the figure of an elephant to be impressed thereon; that by a pun on the Carthaginian name of that animal, which sounded like the name of Cæsar, he might be said to be on the coin. He thought the amendment consistent with Republican principles, and therefore approved of it.
Mr. LIVERMORE ridiculed, with an uncommon degree of humor, the idea that it could be of any consequence to the United States whether the head of Liberty were on their coins or not; the President was a very good emblem of Liberty; but what an emblematical figure might be, he could not tell. A ghost had been said to be in the shape of the sound of a drum, and so might Liberty for aught he knew; but how the President's head being on our coins could affect the liberty of the people, was incomprehensible to him. He hoped, therefore, that the amendment would be rejected.
Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina, agreed with Mr. LIVERMORE in opinion; adding, that the President representing the people of the United States, might with great propriety represent them on their coins. He denied that Republics did not place the images of their Chief Magistrates on their coins; and said, he was surprised that a member who so much admired the French and their new constitution, should be so averse to a practice they have established; the head of their King is by their constitution put upon their money. Besides, it was strange that for a circumstance so trivial we should lose time in debating, and risk the loss of an important bill.
The said amendment was again read, and a division of the question thereon called for: Whereupon,
The question being taken, that the House do agree to the first part of the said amendment, for striking out the words "or representation of the head of the President of the United States for the time being, with an inscription, which shall express the initial or first letter of his Christian or first name, and his surname at length, the succession of the Presidency numerically:"--it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 26, nays 22.
And then the question being taken that the House do agree to the second part of the said amendment, for inserting, in lieu of the words stricken out, the words, "Emblematic of liberty, with an inscription of the word Liberty:"--it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 42, nays 6.
MONDAY, March 26.
Establishment of a Mint.
A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate disagree to the amendment proposed by this House to the bill entitled "An act establishing a Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States;" and agree to the amendment proposed by this House to the bill entitled "An act supplemental to the act for making further and more effectual provision for the protection of the frontiers of the United States."
It was moved that the House should recede from their amendment to the bill entitled "An act establishing a Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States."
Mr. LIVERMORE supported the motion. He said, he did not conceive it possible that and friend to the President of the United States, the Chief Magistrate, that great and good man, would have refused to pay every tribute of respect which was justly due to him. We have now a favorable opportunity of complimenting him, without any shadow of flattery, and without any expense. But, instead of this, what is proposed? An emblematical figure of Liberty. But what is this liberty which some appear to be so fond of? He had no idea of such liberty as appears to possess the minds of some gentlemen. It is little better than the liberty of savages--a relinquishment of all law that contradicts or thwarts their passions or desires. His idea of liberty was that which arose from law and justice, which secured every man in his proper and social rights. Some gentlemen may think a bear broke loose from his chain a fit emblem of liberty; others may devise a different emblem; but he could not conceive that any of them would be applicable to the situation of the United States, which justly boasted of being always free. If any idea of an emblem is necessary, he thought it might be applied to the head of the President of the United States. The present occasion affords the best opportunity of doing honor to the man we love; instead of which, we offer him an affront. He could not reconcile this conduct to propriety or consistency; for, while it is proposed to raise a monument to the memory of the President, which will cost fifty thousand guineas, a proposition to honor him in a more effectual manner, and in a way which will be satisfactory to the people, without any expense, and with perfect security to their liberties, is objected to. He hoped the House would recede.
Mr. MERCER replied to Mr. LIVERMORE with some degree of asperity. He observed that there was a rule in the British House of Commons that the name of the King should never be mentioned in any debate. He thought some such rule might be introduced with advantage into this House. In the course of his remarks, to show that the circumstance of having the President's head stamped on the coin could not be justly considered as doing him an honor, he said, that persons of no better character than a Nero, a Caligula, or a Heliogabalus, may enjoy it as well as a Trajan, &c.
Mr. SENEY animadverted with severity on the remarks offered by Mr. LIVERMORE, and on the conduct of the Senate; particularly in returning the bill with a negative to the amendment of the House, within a period that left them no time to deliberate on the reasons which might have influenced the House.
Mr. GILES opposed the motion for receding. He adverted to the ideas which are connected with the subject in European countries. The President's head will not designate the Government. There is to be but one head; but does not our Government consist of three parts? Is there any other head proposed to be on the coin but the President's? He said this circumstance was of a piece with the first act of the Senate. It had a near affinity to titles, that darling child of the Senate, which has been put to nurse, with an intention that it shall be announced at some future period in due form.
Mr. BENSON said, he supposed he should be extremely disorderly were he to mention the motives which influenced the Senate in their discussions. He knew not what they were, nor was it of importance that he should. He then observed, that plain pieces of metal will not answer for money; some impression is necessary to guard against counterfeits. The Senate have determined what the device shall be; but the House, by their amendment, have left the matter entirely to the judgment of the artist, who may form such an emblem as suits his fancy. Mr. B. ridiculed the idea of the people's being enslaved by their Presidents, and much less by his image on their coin.
Mr. PAGE replied that he was sorry to find that some gentlemen endeavored to ridicule Republican cautions. He thought it both indelicate and inconsistent with their situations, as well as highly impolitic. He confessed that, as long as the people were sensible of the blessings of liberty, and had their eyes open to watch encroachments, they would not be enslaved; but if they should ever shut them, or become inattentive to their interests and the true principles of a free government, they, like other nations, might lose their liberties; that it was the duty of the members of that House to keep the eyes of their constituents open, and to watch over their liberties. It was therefore unbecoming a member to treat with levity and to ridicule any sentiment which had that tendency. For his part, he thought it the peculiar duty of the Representative of a free people to put them upon their guard against any thing which could possibly endanger their liberties. That with this view he warned his constituents of the danger, not merely of imitating the flattery and almost idolatrous practice of Monarchies with respect to the honor paid to their Kings, by impressing their images and names on their coins, but he wished to add as few incentives as possible to competitors for the President's place. He warned his country against the cabals, the corruption, and animosities, which might be excited by the intrigues of ambitious men, animated with the hope of handing their names down to the latest ages on the medals of their country. But this indiscriminate honor is unworthy of the President's acceptance. A Nero, a Caligula, a Heliogabalus, it has been observed, (by Mr. MERCER,) may enjoy it as well as a Trajan. To apply it to the present Chief Magistrate, alone, would be less exceptionable. But this would be highly improper; for, if he should pass an act for this purpose, it might blast his reputation. I am of opinion that the Senate knew his delicacy would not permit him to pass such a one. They have therefore extended the compliment to all his successors. We are under obligations to the great man now our President; but a lover of liberty and friend to the rights of man would be cautious how he showed his sense of that obligation. As a friend to the President, I am unwilling to offer him a compliment which, if accepted, might damn his reputation. Were I in his place, I would cut off my hand rather than it should sign the act as it now stands. Were I his greatest enemy, I should wish him to pass it as it was passed by the Senate. Sir, I am as much his friend as the member from New Hampshire, and have shown, at proper times and places, that I was so. I am too sensible of the honor our President has acquired to suppose that an unbecoming compliment can in any degree contribute to its increase. I hope, therefore, the amendment which the House has made will not be receded from.
The question being now put, that this House doth recede from the said amendment, it passed in the negative--yeas 24, nays 32, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Israel Jacobs, John W. Kittera, Amasa Learned, Samuel Livermore, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith, Jonathan Sturges, Peter Sylvester, George Thatcher, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward.
NAYS.--John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, John Brown, Abraham Clark, William B. Giles, James Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, Philip Key, Aaron Kitchell, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, Andrew Moore, William Vans Murray, Nathaniel Niles, John Page, Josiah Parker, Joshua Seney, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, John Vining, Alexander White, and Hugh Williamson.
Resolved, That this House doth adhere to the said amendment.
Ordered, That the Clerk of this House do acquaint the Senate therewith.
TUESDAY, March 27.
A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate recede from their disagreement to the amendment adhered to by this House to the bill entitled "An act establishing a Mint, and regulating the coins of the United States."
WEDNESDAY, April 4.
General Nathaniel Greene.
The House proceeded to consider the resolution reported from the Committee of the whole House on the 24th of February last, to indemnify the estate of the late General Nathaniel Greene for a certain suretyship entered into by the said Nathaniel Greene, in his lifetime, on the public behalf. Whereupon, the said resolution being read at the Clerk's table, as follows:
"Whereas, the late Major General Nathaniel Greene, on the 8th day of April, 1783, the more effectually to procure rations and supplies for the Southern Army of the United States, became bound as surety for John Banks & Co., to Newcomen & Collet, merchants in Charleston, for the payment of £8,743 15_s._ 6_d._, sterling money, being the condition of the said bond:
"And whereas, on the 1st of May, 1786, the balance of principal and interest of said bond, being then £8,688 6_s._ sterling, was paid by the said General Greene. Therefore,
"Resolved, That the United States shall indemnify the estate of the said General Greene for the said sum last mentioned, and the interest thereof, or for such sum as, upon due investigation by the officers of the Treasury of the transactions between John Banks & Co., with Messrs. Newcomen & Collet, in which General Greene was security for said Banks & Co., it shall appear that neither General Greene nor his executors shall have received any payment or compensation for: Provided, The executors of the said General Greene shall account for a sum being about £2,000, be the same more or less, recovered by John Ferrie, one of the partners of the said John Banks & Co., to be in part of the indemnification aforesaid; and also shall make over for the use of the United States, all mortgages, bonds, covenants, or other counter-securities whatsoever, now due, which were obtained by the said General Greene, in his lifetime, from the said Banks & Co., on account of his being surety for them as aforesaid, to be sued for in the name of the said executors, for the use of the United States."
The previous question thereon was called for by five members, to wit: "Shall the main question, to agree to the said resolution, be now put?" And on the previous question, "Shall the main question be now put?" it was resolved in the affirmative. And then the main question, "That the House do agree to the said resolution?" being put, it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 29, nays 26, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, Philip Key, John W. Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, Samuel Livermore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Page, Theodore Sedgwick, Upton Sheridine, William Smith, Samuel Sterrett, George Thatcher, John Vining, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Francis Willis.
NAYS.--John Baptist Ashe, Elias Boudinot, John Brown, Abraham Clark, William B. Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, William Barry Grove, James Hillhouse, Israel Jacobs, Aaron Kitchell, Nathaniel Macon, Andrew Moore, Nathaniel Niles, Joshua Seney, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, John Steele, Jonathan Sturges, Thomas Sumter, Peter Sylvester, Thomas Tredwell, Artemas Ward, Alexander White, and Hugh Williamson.
Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolution, and that Mr. LIVERMORE, Mr. PAGE, and Mr. BARNWELL, do prepare and bring in the same.
THURSDAY, April 5.
Apportionment Bill.
A message was received from the President of the United States returning to the House the bill passed by the two Houses entitled "An act for an Apportionment of Representatives among the several States according to the first Enumeration," and presented to the President for his approbation on Monday, the 26th of March; to which bill the President having made objections, the said objections were read, and ordered to be entered at large on the Journal, as follows:
"UNITED STATES, April 5, 1792."
Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:
"I have maturely considered the act passed by the two Houses entitled 'An act for an Apportionment of Representatives among the several States, according to the first Enumeration;' and I return it to your House, wherein it originated, with the following objections:
"First. The constitution has prescribed that Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers; and there is no one proportion or divisor which, applied to the respective numbers of the States, will yield the number and allotment of Representatives proposed by the bill.
"Second. The constitution has also provided that the number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand; which restriction is, by the context, and by fair and obvious construction, to be applied to the separate and respective numbers of the States; and the bill has allotted to eight of the States more than one for every thirty thousand.
"G. WASHINGTON."
Resolved, That to-morrow be assigned for the reconsideration of the said bill, in the mode prescribed by the Constitution of the United States.
FRIDAY, April 6.
Apportionment Bill.
The House proceeded to reconsider the bill passed by the two Houses entitled "An act for an Apportionment of Representatives among the several States, according to the first Enumeration," which was presented for approbation on Monday, the 26th of March, and returned by the President yesterday, with objections.
The said bill was read, and is as follows:
"An act for an Appointment of Representatives among the several States, according to the first Enumeration.
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That, from and after the 3d day of March, in the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-three, the House of Representatives shall be composed of one hundred and twenty members, elected within the several States, according to the following apportionment, that is to say: Within the State of New Hampshire, five; within the State of Massachusetts, sixteen; within the State of Vermont, three; within the State of Rhode Island, two; within the State of Connecticut, eight; within the State of New York, eleven: within the State of New Jersey, six; within the State of Pennsylvania, fourteen; within the State of Delaware, two; within the State of Maryland, nine; within the State of Virginia, twenty-one; within the State of Kentucky, two; within the State of North Carolina, twelve; within the State of South Carolina, seven; and within the State of Georgia, two.
"JONATHAN TRUMBULL,
"Speaker of the House of Representatives.
"JOHN ADAMS,
"Vice President U. S. and President of Senate."
The President's objections were also read; and, after debate on the subject-matter of the said bill, the question "That the House, on reconsideration, do agree to pass the bill," was determined in the mode prescribed by the Constitution of the United States, and passed in the negative--yeas 23, nays 33, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Egbert Benson, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Thomas Hartley, Israel Jacobs, Aaron Kitchell, John W. Kittera, John Laurance, Amasa Learned, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Niles, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Theodore Sedgwick, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, John Steele, George Thatcher, Thomas Tredwell, John Vining, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward.
NAYS.--John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, Robert Barnwell, John Brown, William Findlay, William B. Giles, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, Wm. Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Philip Key, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Page, Josiah Parker, Joshua Seney, Upton Sheridine, William Smith, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.
And so the bill was rejected, two-thirds of the House not agreeing to pass the same.
MONDAY, April 9.
Apportionment Bill.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for an Apportionment of Representatives among the several States, according to the first Enumeration; at the ratio of one for every ---- thousand persons, in the respective States.
Mr. GILES observed, that, although this subject has been heretofore thoroughly discussed, and the minds of gentlemen probably fatigued with the discussion, yet he could not help trespassing upon the patience of the committee, by mentioning some of the principal reasons which would influence his vote against the motion, and in favor of that ratio which will afford the greatest number of Representatives authorized by the constitution. He was induced to do this from an opinion that, in the usual course of things, arguments will have an effect upon the public mind in some measure proportioned to their own solidity, and the purity of the motives which actuate them. That the compound of these qualities form a common standard, by which all arguments would and ought to be measured by the great majority of the people; and he had no objections to submitting his reasons to the application of this common standard; he meant, however, to confine himself to general remarks, and not to fatigue the committee unnecessarily with minute exemplification of them.
He proceeded by observing, that the expression in the constitution induced and justified the general expectation among the people of the United States, that one Representative for every thirty thousand persons was secured to them by the constitution; that a definitive certainty in the number of Representatives, as well as the manner of procuring them, is, in its nature, of constitutional and not of legislative provision, and affords a reason against varying the ratio mentioned in the constitution, although that ratio be expressed in terms of latitude; that Congress had confirmed the general expectation in the public mind by the proposed amendments to the constitution, and had at least given a solemn opinion in favor of the ratio of one to thirty thousand, until the number of Representatives should amount to one hundred, after acquiring which number by that rule only, a qualified discretion is admitted; that the opinions of the great bulk of the people of America were in favor of an increased representation, at least as far as the utmost limits prescribed by the constitution; that this circumstance was evidenced by the conventions which adopted the constitution; that it was further evidenced by the several Legislatures which adopted the proposed amendments before alluded to; that it was still further evidenced by the number of Representatives in the respective State Legislatures; that this last circumstance is rendered peculiarly forcible by a comparative view of the objects of legislation chartered to the Government of the United States, and those retained to the State Governments. The objects of legislation chartered to the Government of the United States, are wholly national and important; the objects of legislation retained to the State Governments are comparatively local and subaltern: those peculiarly prompt temptation and invite corruption--these offer no inducements to either. In the Government of the United States, the constituents of the Representative body are complex and diversified; in the State Governments they are comparatively simple and assimilated. That a sympathy with the feelings of the people should characterize this branch of the Government; wisdom is the expected characteristic of the Senate; and despatch of the Executive.
To the inequality of representation relatively to States suggested to result from the application of this rule, Mr. G. replied that the inequality complained of is rather ideal than real; that to determine how far this consideration really ought to exist among States, it is right and proper to ascertain the whole comparative Government: and the issue of this inquiry will be, that those States in whose favor the rule is said to operate, possess the least governmental influence in the Senate, proportioned to numbers; and that the casual gain here is no equivalent for the certain loss there. As far, therefore, as the governmental influence of States in relation to numbers is to operate, it will furnish a motive of preferment for the rule he contended for.
It has been said (continued Mr. G.) that the representation of the States in the Senate is strictly defined by the constitution, and that therefore the consideration of the relative influence of the States, then, should not be resorted to as an argument in the apportionment of Representatives to this House. But, it should be observed, that the rule contended for, though not so strictly defined, is equally within the pale of the constitution; and the most extended use to be made of this consideration is, to manifest the impropriety of resorting to the pretended inequality among States, as a conclusive argument to vary that ratio of representation for this House which is admitted to be the most proper, upon its intrinsic merits, and when viewed without a reference to that consideration. This particular subject suggests a peculiar equity and propriety, in taking into consideration the comparative governmental influence of the States in the Senate, proportioned to numbers; because, it is in consequence of a representation by States, there, that they gain this unequal influence: and nothing more is contended for by this rule than a representation of the people through the medium of the several States, here. The rule of representation is not the cause of the present inequality, as far as it may appear to exist; it is a mere contingent circumstance, depending upon arbitrary facts and numbers, which cannot be rendered subservient to any general rule. It should also be remarked, that most of the States supposed to be favored by the operation of this rule, have, heretofore, been unequally represented in the extreme; and from the extent and rapid population of these States, it may be concluded, with certainty, that previously to the expiration of the present apportionment, the real inequality of representation in this House, as well as in the Senate, will continue to bear particularly hard upon them. Perfect equality is unattainable; and the proposed ratio is, in the principle, equally subject with any other to all the inconveniences which it is intended to remedy.
The inconveniences of the rule he contended for, in their utmost extent, can never be very great, because the same rule is applied in the same manner to the respective States; and the most extended scope for its unequal operation must be confined to the casual result of the fractional numbers within the several States. In reflecting upon this argument of inequality of representation in relation to States, an idea had presented itself to his mind which seemed to him both novel and important; and that is, that a quality exists in the Government, from its peculiar organization which enables a minority of constituents, through the medium of a majority of Representatives, to give law to a majority of constituents, absolutely against the will of their minority of Representatives. This quality of the Government arises from the State representations in the Senate; and it exists not merely in speculation or idea--it has been sensibly felt in practice, and there is a real tendency in the Government to make it still more so. The very bill now under consideration will probably furnish one strong evidence of its efficacy in practice; it would have passed very differently from the present proposition, if it had not met with this unnatural check; and I am concerned, said he, to remark, that almost in every important measure of the Government, the minority of the people of the Union had given law to the majority of the people, against their consent, as far as this can be evidenced through the medium of their Representatives. This, it is to be feared, is a radical evil in the Government, and its magnitude would be in a great measure proportioned to the extension of the objects of legislation by this Government. If the people be the only legal source of governmental authority, and this right of individuals be equal, this is certainly a heterodox principle in the Government. He would not pretend to say, however, that this was a cancer upon the body politic too inveterate and vital to admit of a cure; but he conceived it to be a sore of that sort which it would be unwise to irritate or tamper with: and he conceived, also, the present proposition not to be without its irritating qualities.
Mr. G. then proceeded to consider, upon general principles, of increasing the representation in this House to the full extent authorized by the constitution, and particularly with a view to the necessity of establishing, in this branch of the Government, a permanent sympathy with the landed interest. He observed, that all Representative Governments appeared to possess a natural tendency from Republicanism to Monarchy; that, great inequalities in the distribution of wealth among individuals, consequent upon the progress of all governments, appeared to be the cause of their political evolutions; that no competent remedy against this evil had been heretofore discovered, or at least practically applied by any Government; that perhaps this great political light may first shine forth through the medium of the American constitutions, and serve, as some others have previously done, to illumine not only the American, but the European world.
The peculiar circumstances of the United States, however, since the late Revolution, and in the infancy of the American Governments, favored extremely this natural principle of the growing inequality in the distribution of wealth amongst individuals. An extensive, unexhausted, fertile country furnished full scope for agriculture, the plenty and cheapness of provisions and rude materials for manufactures, and an unshackled commerce for the merchant; and to these were added the blessings of peace, and laws securing to the individual the exclusive possession of the fruits of his own industry, however abundant. There were intrinsic circumstances; there was a contingent one. A public debt--the price of the Revolution itself and its consequent blessings--had been incurred, and, from the imbecility of the then existing Confederacy, and other causes, was depreciated considerably below its nominal value; but it was then in small masses, and not very unequally spread amongst the individuals throughout the whole United States. The Government of the United States, instead of managing this contingent circumstance with caution, and declaring so in its ministration, seized upon it with its fiscal arrangement, and applied it as the most powerful machine to stimulate this growing inequality in the distribution of wealth--a principle perhaps too much favored by other existing causes. The Government, not satisfied with the debts contracted by the former Confederacy, assumed the payment of a great proportion of the debts contracted by the respective State Governments, and established funds for paying the interest of the whole. This measure produced two effects, not very desirable amongst individuals. It gathered these scattered debts, at a very inferior price, from the hands of the many, and placed them in the hands of the few; and it stimulates the value of them. Thus collected into greater masses, beyond all calculation, by the artificial application of fiscal mechanism, it produced a variety of serious effects with respect to the Government. In opposition to the agricultural or republican, it enlisted a great moneyed interest in the United States, who, having embarked their fortunes with the Government, would go all lengths with its Administration, whether right or wrong, virtuous or vicious, by rendering the debt but partially redeemable, passing perpetual tax laws, and mortgaging their products to the payment of the interest of this perpetually-existing debt. It gave the Executive a qualified control over the best moneyed resources of the United States, not contemplated by the constitution, nor founded in wisdom. It gave rise to an unauthorized incorporation of the moneyed interest, and placed it as far as possible from the reach of future Legislative influence. It established the doctrine that one systematic financier was better able to originate money bills and tax the people of the United States, than the whole collected wisdom of their Representatives, with the aid of a reciprocity of feeling. It gave rise to the idea of a Sinking Fund, without limitation as to amount, to be placed in the hands of a few trustees, and there to be protected from Legislative control by all the sanctions and securities annexed to private property. In short, it established the doctrine that all authority could be more safely intrusted to, and better executed by a few, than by many; and, in pursuance of this idea, made more continual drafts of authority from the Representative branch of the Government, and placed it in the hands of the Executive; lessening, by this mechanism of administration, the constitutional influence of the people in the Government, and fundamentally changing its native genius and original principle. He (Mr. G.) knew of no competent remedy against the abominable evils to be apprehended from the future operation of these unhallowed principles, but a permanent establishment of the candid or Republican interest in this House; and the best chance of effecting this great object he conceived to be a full representation of the people. His alarms respecting these fashionable, energetic principles were greatly increased by a perspective view of some of the proposed measures of Government. He saw systems introduced to carve out of the common rights of one part of the community privileges, monopolies, exclusive rights, &c., for the benefit of another, with no other view, in his opinion, but to create nurseries of immediate dependants upon the Government, whose interest will always stimulate them to support its measures, however iniquitous and tyrannical, and, indeed, the very emoluments which will compose the price of their attachment to the Government will grow out of a tyrannical violation of the rights of others. He would forbear to mention a variety of other circumstances, to prove that principles having a tendency to change the very nature of the Government, have pervaded even the minutest ramifications of its fiscal arrangements, nor would he dwell upon the undue influence to be apprehended from moneyed foreigners, who had become adventurers in the funds, nor the various avenues opened to facilitate the operation of corruption. He would merely remark, that, acting under impressions produced by these considerations, and strengthened by others not less pertinent and important, suggested by a number of gentlemen, in the course of the discussion of this subject, and believing that a full representation of the people will furnish the only chance of remedy for the existing, and a competent protection against future evils, he should feel himself criminal if by his vote he should give up a single Representative authorized by the constitution. The same impressions would have induced him to have voted for the proposition which gave one hundred and twenty members, had it not been for a conscientious and paramount regard for the preservation of the constitution. The difference of the position of the members throughout the United States, which would have been assumed by the difference in the manner of making the apportionment, never amounted to the minimum of a consideration with him against the proposition; for he felt a conviction that the agricultural or equalizing interest was nearly the same throughout all parts of the United States; and he hoped that the increased representation would furnish strong testimonies of the truth of the position. He would remark, generally, the Government of America was now in a state of puberty, that is, at this time. She is to assume a fixed character, and he thought it in some degree rested upon the vote now to be given, whether she would preserve the simplicity, chastity, and purity of her native representation and Republicanism, in which alone the true dignity and greatness of her character must consist; or whether she will, so early in youth, prostitute herself to the venal and borrowed artifices and corruptions of a stale and pampered Monarchy? Whatever his own opinions or suspicions may be respecting the tendency of the present Administration, and whatever may be the discussion of to-day, he should still preserve a hope that the increased representation, supported by the enlightened spirit of the people at large, will form an effectual resistance to the pressure of the whole vices of the Administration, and may yet establish the Government upon a broad, permanent, and Republican basis.
When Mr. GILES had concluded, the committee rose, and reported an amendment, viz: to fill up the blank with the word "thirty-three;" which was carried in the affirmative--yeas 34, nays 30, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Jonathan Dayton, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Israel Jacobs, Aaron Kitchell, John W. Kittera, Amasa Learned, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Niles, Theodore Sedgwick, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Jonathan Sturges, Peter Sylvester, George Thatcher, John Vining, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and Artemas Ward.
NAYS.--John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, John Brown, William Findlay, William B. Giles, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Philip Key, John Laurance, Richard Bland Lee, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Page, Josiah Parker, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Joshua Seney, Upton Sheridine, John Steele, Samuel Sterrett, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.
Ordered, That the said bill, together with the amendments, be engrossed and read the third time to-morrow.
FRIDAY, April 20.
Publication of the Debates.
Before the House proceeded to the order of the day--
Mr. GERRY said, that the circumstance of a publication which had made its appearance that morning induced him to rise for the purpose of bringing forward a proposition respecting a full and impartial publication of the debates of that House. Every gentleman, he believed, would agree with him that, from a publication of this kind, the citizens of the United States would derive such information respecting the proceedings of the Legislature, and the principles on which the laws are grounded, as must be productive of the most salutary effects, and attach the people more strongly to the General Government; but the ex parte publications can have no other tendency than to misrepresent their proceedings, and alienate the affections of the citizens. He therefore moved the following resolution:
"Whereas an impartial publication of the Debates of Congress stating accurately their Legislative measures, and the reasons urged for and against them, is a desirable object, inasmuch as it may aid the Executive in administering the Government, the Judiciary in expounding the laws, the Governments and citizens of the several States in forming a judgment of the conduct of their respective Representatives, and Congress themselves in revising and amending their Legislative proceedings: And whereas, from the want of proper arrangements, such publication has not been accomplished--
"Resolved, That ---- persons, of good reputation, and skilled in the art of stenography, be, at the next session, appointed by ballot, to take and publish, impartially and accurately, the Legislative subjects which may be submitted to the consideration of the House, and the debates thereon of the members respectively; that the persons so to be appointed be considered as officers of the House, and provided for accordingly; that they be severally qualified by oath to a faithful discharge of the trust; and that such regulations shall be prescribed, as may be necessary to protect them in attaining the salutary objects of their appointment."
This, Mr. G. said, was a subject which ought no longer to be overlooked. Whilst Congress sat at New York, great uneasiness had been occasioned in the House by the mode in which the debates were published. Sometimes members were introduced as uttering arguments directly the reverse of what they had advanced. At other times, the substance of the arguments, as published, wore an aspect widely different from what they had when offered in debate. In some instances, their arguments were so garbled that they themselves were unable to recognize them in print; in others, they were disfigured with grammatical errors, and rendered totally unintelligible; and on many occasions, the arguments on one side of the question only were published.
Such were the effects produced by this mode of publication that a gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. BURKE) brought forward a motion for correcting those evils, which was debated for some time. After the subject had been two or three times under discussion, the House was informed that there was a probability of care being taken in future to correct the errors; and thus the matter was passed over.
Mr. G. then mentioned a circumstance which he had learned from a gentleman who had declared he could prove it on oath before the House, if called upon, viz: that, having asked one of those persons who at that time published the debates, "how he could think of publishing them so inaccurately?" the answer was, "that he was under a necessity of obliging his employers." Hence, he concluded that there must have been a corrupt faction who influenced that short-hand writer.
When Congress first came to this city, the debates were published pretty accurately; and so they were this session, in some of the papers, but, in others, the case was otherwise; and he himself, as well as other gentlemen, had been under a necessity of publicly contradicting them in print. In some of the debates, the answer to an argument was published before the argument itself made its appearance; on other occasions, they were published very fully on one side of the question, whilst nothing appeared on the other. Every gentleman, he believed, would admit that this was a true state of the business; and it was well known that, on many important occasions, no debates had been published at all.
The want of regularity in the publication was, he supposed, owing, in some measure, to the want of proper encouragement, as the printers of newspapers would not probably find their account in allowing a sufficient compensation to induce short-hand writers to devote their whole time to the business.
Mr. G. then read from the American Daily Advertiser (of Friday last) the following passage:
"A warm debate hereupon took place, during the course of which one gentleman, who strenuously supported the motion, was several times interrupted. Apprehensions were expressed of dangerous consequences, in case his speech should appear in print; and an honorable member, who opposed the motion, (Mr. GERRY,) declared that the manner in which the Debates of Congress had been published, and the business conducted, during the present session, had a direct tendency to bring about a dissolution of the Union.
"As the honorable gentleman did not further explain himself, we are at a loss to determine whether he meant to tax the publishers of the debates with inaccuracy in stating them wrong,----or imprudence, in stating them right, and freely publishing whatever sentiments any member of that House may think proper to express, in the constitutional exercise of the freedom of debate. But, certain we are, that he could not mean to stigmatize them as actuated by partiality, undue influence, or sinister motives of any kind."
Here, said Mr. G., an idea was held up that the gentleman who had spoken first (Mr. MERCER) was interrupted. But it is not said that I was interrupted too. I was interrupted as often as he. The House can determine whether I have ever taken any measure to prevent a free and candid publication of the debates. On the contrary, I have always endeavored to obtain it; and I will still proceed to accomplish it as far as possible. I think neither this House nor any of its members ought to be subject to publications of this kind. If they are, they will be obliged either to enter into paper wars with printers, or to relinquish the public good. It is incumbent on the House to take measures to prevent misrepresentation. I therefore submit to the House the resolution which I have read; and I hope that, if the proposition itself appears worthy of their attention, they will take it into consideration; or, if it wants any amendment, they will refer it to a committee; for I think the subject ought not to be any longer neglected.
Mr. MERCER.--I second the motion; and I think the publication which the honorable gentleman has read to the House contains but a fair statement of facts. The gentleman, in the course of the former debate, made some very strange allusions to what was said by me, which were wholly unauthorized. I consider it as a primary object in this Government that we should on this floor be at all times free to express our sentiments of the Government, without involving the Government itself. I consider such a measure as is now contemplated to be well worthy the serious attention of the House. We are at a distance from our constituents; and it is a misfortune that we are withdrawn from their inspection, by being placed in a part of the Union where it is not easy to compare our circumstances and conduct in private life with the motives which may be supposed to influence our political conduct. Our constituents ought to be acquainted with our proceedings here; and it is only from a full and accurate publication of the debates of this House that they can obtain any satisfactory information on this subject.
Mr. GERRY said, that the paragraph he had read did not contain a full statement of facts, as the apprehensions he had expressed were only in case the arguments should go "unanswered."
Mr. GILES made, and Mr. W. SMITH seconded, a motion for referring the resolution to a select committee, to report such regulation as they may think necessary for the publication of the debates. An additional reason for the reference was, that some alteration in the wording appeared necessary, to (Mr. SMITH,) so far as respects the Judiciary, &c.
Mr. BOUDINOT objected to the commitment, as he thought it a subject of considerable consequence, and there would not be time to take it up during the present session, the House having already outsat the time which the other branch of the Legislature had proposed for the adjournment. This was his only objection; otherwise, he was far from being opposed to the measure.
Mr. GILES thought the consequence of letting the matter lie over till next session would be, that it would die away, and nothing would be done. Unless some steps be taken during the present session, no persons would come forward as candidates at the commencement of the next. But if a committee report on the subject, the House may determine what steps are to be taken, and the people will be prepared accordingly.
The question being taken on the commitment, it passed in the affirmative--yeas 27, nays, 22.
Ordered, That the said motion be committed to Mr. GERRY, Mr. MERCER, Mr. LEE, Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina,) and Mr. KITTERA.
TUESDAY, May 8.
A message was received from the Senate, notifying the House that the Senate, having completed the Legislative business before them, are now about to adjourn. Whereupon,
Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate to inform them that this House, having completed the business before them, are now about to adjourn until the first Monday in November next, and that the Clerk of this House do go with the said message.
The Clerk accordingly went with the said message; and, being returned,
The SPEAKER adjourned the House, to meet on the first Monday in November next.
SECOND CONGRESS.--SECOND SESSION.
BEGUN AT THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, NOVEMBER 5, 1792.
PROCEEDINGS OF THE SENATE.
MONDAY, November 5, 1792.
This being the day fixed by law for the annual meeting of the second session of the second Congress, the following Senators appeared, and took their seats:
JOHN LANGDON and PAINE WINGATE, from New Hampshire.
CALEB STRONG and GEORGE CABOT, from Massachusetts.
THEODORE FOSTER, from Rhode Island.
OLIVER ELLSWORTH and ROGER SHERMAN, from Connecticut.
STEPHEN R. BRADLEY and MOSES ROBINSON, from Vermont.
RUFUS KING, from New York.
PHILEMON DICKINSON and JOHN RUTHERFORD, from New Jersey.
GEORGE READ, from Delaware.
JAMES MONROE, from Virginia.
JOHN BROWN and JOHN EDWARDS, from Kentucky.
BENJAMIN HAWKINS, from North Carolina.
PIERCE BUTLER and RALPH IZARD, from South Carolina; and
WILLIAM FEW, from Georgia.
In the absence of the VICE PRESIDENT, and also of RICHARD HENRY LEE, elected President pro tempore at a former session, the Senate proceeded to the choice of a President pro tempore, as the constitution provides, and JOHN LANGDON was duly elected.
JOHN BROWN and JOHN EDWARDS, from the State of Kentucky, respectively, produced their credentials; and the oath required by law was, by the PRESIDENT pro tempore, administered to them.
Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives that a quorum of the Senate is assembled and ready to proceed on business.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that a quorum of the House of Representatives is assembled, and ready to proceed to business.
A second message informed the Senate that the House of Representatives have resolved that a committee be appointed, jointly with such committee as the Senate shall appoint, to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may please to make to them; in which resolution they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
Resolved, That the Senate concur in the appointment of a joint committee to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, agreeably to the resolution of the House of Representatives, and that Messrs. IZARD and STRONG be the committee on the part of the Senate.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House of Representatives have resolved that two Chaplains, of different denominations, be appointed to Congress, for the present session, one by each House, who shall interchange weekly; in which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Senate proceeded to consider the said resolution; and
Resolved, That they do concur therein, and that the Right Rev. Bishop WHITE be the Chaplain on the part of the Senate.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House of Representatives have proceeded to the election of a Chaplain to Congress for the present session, and have appointed the Rev. Doctor GREEN on their part.
Mr. IZARD, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, agreeably to the resolution of the two Houses of this day, reported,
That they had executed the business, and that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES proposed to meet the two Houses of Congress in the Senate Chamber to-morrow at 11 o'clock.
TUESDAY, November 6.
ROBERT MORRIS, from the State of Pennsylvania, attended, and took his seat.
Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives that the Senate are ready to meet them in the Senate Chamber, to receive any communications the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES may be pleased to make to the two Houses of Congress, and that the usual seats will be assigned to them.
The House of Representatives having accordingly taken their seats, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES came into the Senate Chamber, and addressed both Houses of Congress, as follows:
Fellow-Citizens of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:
It is some abatement of the satisfaction with which I meet you on the present occasion, that, in felicitating you on a continuance of the national prosperity, generally, I am not able to add to it information that the Indian hostilities, which have, for some time past, distressed our north-western frontier, have terminated.
You will, I am persuaded, learn with no less concern than I communicate it, that reiterated endeavors, towards effecting a pacification, have hitherto issued only in new and outrageous proofs of persevering hostility on the part of the tribes with whom we are in contest. An earnest desire to procure tranquillity to the frontier; to stop the further effusion of blood; to arrest the progress of expense; to forward the prevalent wish of the nation for peace, has led to strenuous efforts, through various channels, to accomplish these desirable purposes; in making which efforts, I consulted less my own anticipations of the event, or the scruples which some considerations were calculated to inspire, than the wish to find the object attainable; or, if not attainable, to ascertain unequivocally that such is the case.
A detail of the measures which have been pursued, and of their consequences, which will be laid before you, while it will confirm to you the want of success, thus far, will, I trust, evince that means as proper and as efficacious as could have been devised have been employed. The issue of some of them, indeed, is still depending; but a favorable one, though not to be despaired of, is not promised by any thing that has yet happened.
In the course of the attempts which have been made, some valuable citizens have fallen victims to their zeal for the public service. A sanction commonly respected even among savages has been found, in this instance, insufficient to protect from massacre the emissaries of peace: it will, I presume, be duly considered whether the occasion does not call for an exercise of liberality towards the families of the deceased.
It must add to your concern to be informed, that, besides the continuation of hostile appearances among the tribes north of the Ohio, some threatening symptoms have of late been revived among some of those south of it.
A part of the Cherokees, known by the name of Chickamagas, inhabiting five villages on the Tennessee River, have long been in the practice of committing depredations on the neighboring settlements.
It was hoped that the treaty of Holston, made with the Cherokee nation in July, 1791, would have prevented a repetition of such depredations. But the event has not answered this hope. The Chickamagas, aided by some banditti of another tribe, in their vicinity, have recently perpetrated wanton and unprovoked hostilities upon the citizens of the United States in that quarter. The information which has been received on this subject will be laid before you. Hitherto, defensive precautions only have been strictly enjoined and observed.
It is not understood that any breach of treaty, or aggression whatsoever, on the part of the United States, or their citizens, is even alleged as a pretext for the spirit of hostility in this quarter.
I have reason to believe that every practicable exertion has been made (pursuant to the provision by law for that purpose) to be prepared for the alternative of a prosecution of the war, in the event of a failure of pacific overtures. A large proportion of the troops authorized to be raised have been recruited, though the number is still incomplete. And pains have been taken to discipline and put them in condition for the particular kind of service to be performed. A delay of operations (besides being dictated by the measures which were pursuing towards a pacific termination of the war) has been in itself deemed preferable to immature efforts. A statement, from the proper Department, with regard to the number of troops raised, and some other points which have been suggested, will afford more precise information, as a guide to the Legislative consultations; and among other things, will enable Congress to judge whether some additional stimulus to the recruiting service may not be advisable.
In looking forward to the future expense of the operations which may be found inevitable, I derive consolation from the information I receive, that the product of the revenues for the present year is likely to supersede the necessity of additional burdens on the community for the service of the ensuing year. This, however, will be better ascertained in the course of the session; and it is proper to add, that the information alluded to proceeds upon the supposition of no material extension of the spirit of hostility.
I cannot dismiss the subject of Indian affairs without again recommending to your consideration the expediency of more adequate provision for giving energy to the laws throughout our interior frontier, and for restraining the commission of outrages upon the Indians; without which all pacific plans must prove nugatory. To enable, by competent rewards, the employment of qualified and trusty persons to reside among them as agents, would also contribute to the preservation of peace and good neighborhood. If, in addition to these expedients, an eligible plan could be devised for promoting civilization among the friendly tribes, and for carrying on trade with them, upon a scale equal to their wants, and under regulations calculated to protect them from imposition and extortion, its influence in cementing their interest with ours, could not but be considerable.
The prosperous state of our revenue has been intimated. This would be still more the case were it not for the impediments which, in some places, continue to embarrass the collection of the duties on spirits distilled within the United States. These impediments have lessened, and are lessening, in local extent; and, as applied to the community at large, the contentment with the law appears to be progressive.
But symptoms of increased opposition having lately manifested themselves in certain quarters, I judged a special interposition on my part proper and advisable; and, under this impression, have issued a Proclamation, warning against all unlawful combinations and proceedings, having for their object or tending to obstruct the law in question, and announcing that all lawful ways and means would be strictly put in execution for bringing to justice the infractors thereof, and securing obedience thereto.
Measures have also been taken for the prosecution of offenders; and Congress may be assured that nothing within constitutional and legal limits, which may depend upon me, shall be wanting to assert and maintain the just authority of the laws. In fulfilling this trust, I shall count entirely upon the full co-operation of the other Departments of the Government, and upon the zealous support of all good citizens.
I cannot forbear to bring again into the view of the Legislature the subject of a revision of the Judiciary system. A representation from the Judges of the Supreme Court, which will be laid before you, points out some of the inconveniences that are experienced. In the course of the execution of the laws, considerations arise out of the structure of that system, which, in some cases, tend to relax their efficacy. As connected with this subject, provisions to facilitate the taking of bail upon processes out of the Courts of the United States, and a supplementary definition of offences against the constitution and laws of the Union, and of the punishment for such offences, will, it is presumed, be found worthy of particular attention.
Observations on the value of peace with other nations are unnecessary. It would be wise, however, by timely provisions to guard against those acts of our own citizens, which might tend to disturb it, and to put ourselves in a condition to give that satisfaction to foreign nations which we may sometimes have occasion to require from them. I particularly recommend to your consideration the means of preventing those aggressions by our citizens on the territory of other nations, and other infractions of the law of nations which, furnishing just subject of complaint, might endanger our peace with them, and, in general, the maintenance of a friendly intercourse with foreign Powers, will be presented to your attention by the expiration of the law for that purpose, which takes place, if not renewed, at the close of the present session.
In execution of the authority given by the Legislature, measures have been taken for engaging some artists from abroad to aid in the establishment of our Mint: others have been employed at home. Provision has been made for the requisite buildings, and these are now putting into proper condition for the purposes of the establishment. There has also been a small beginning in the coinage of half-dimes; the want of small coins in circulation calling the first attention to them.
The regulation of foreign coins, in correspondency with the principles of our national coinage, as being essential to their due operation, and in order to our money concerns, will, I doubt not, be resumed and completed.
It is represented that some provisions in the law which establishes the Post Office, operate, in experiment, against the transmission of newspapers to distant parts of the country. Should this, upon due inquiry, be found to be the fact, a full conviction of the importance of facilitating the circulation of political intelligence and information will, I doubt not, lead to the application of a remedy.
The adoption of a constitution for the State of Kentucky has been notified to me. The Legislature will share with me in the satisfaction which arises from an event interesting to the happiness of the part of the nation to which it relates, and conducive to the general order.
It is proper likewise to inform you, that, since my last communication on the subject, and in further execution of the acts severally making provision for the Public Debt, and for the reduction thereof, three new loans have been effected, each for three millions of florins; one at Antwerp, at the annual interest of four and one-half per cent., with an allowance of four per cent., in lieu of all charges; and the other two at Amsterdam, at the annual interest of four per cent., with an allowance of five and one-half per cent. in one case, and of five per cent. in the other, in lieu of all charges. The rates of these loans, and the circumstances under which they have been made, are confirmations of the high state of our credit abroad.
Among the objects to which these funds have been directed to be applied, the payment of the debts due to certain foreign officers, according to the provision made during the last session, has been embraced.
Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:
I entertain a strong hope that the state of our national finances is now sufficiently matured to enable you to enter upon a systematic and effectual arrangement for the regular redemption and discharge of the Public Debt, according to the right which has been reserved to the Government; no measure can be more desirable, whether viewed with an eye to its intrinsic importance, or to the general sentiment and wish of the nation.
Provision is likewise requisite for the reimbursement of the loan which has been made of the Bank of the United States, pursuant to the eleventh section of the act by which it is incorporated; in fulfilling the public stipulations in this particular, it is expected a valuable saving will be made.
Appropriations for the current service of the ensuing year, and for such extraordinaries as may require provision, will demand, and I doubt not will engage, your early attention.
_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_
I content myself with recalling your attention, generally, to such objects, not particularized in my present, as have been suggested in my former communications to you.
Various temporary laws will expire during the present session. Among these, that which regulates trade and intercourse with the Indian tribes will merit particular attention.
The results of your common deliberations hitherto, will, I trust, be productive of solid and durable advantages to our constituents; such as, by conciliating more and more their ultimate suffrage, will tend to strengthen and confirm their attachment to that constitution of Government upon which, under Divine Providence, materially depend their Union, their safety, and their happiness.
Still further to promote and secure these inestimable ends, there is nothing which can have a more powerful tendency, than the careful cultivation of harmony, combined with a due regard to stability in the public councils.
G. WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, November 6, 1792.
The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES having retired, and the two Houses being separated,
Ordered, That Messrs. STRONG, KING, and RUTHERFORD, be a committee to prepare and report the draft of an Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech this day, to both Houses of Congress convened in the Senate Chamber.
Ordered, That the Speech of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, delivered this day, be printed for the use of the Senate.
THURSDAY, November 8.
JOHN HENRY, from the State of Maryland, attended, and took his seat.
Agreeably to the order of the day, the Senate took into consideration the Address reported by the committee to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; which, being recommitted and amendments reported, was agreed to, as amended.
Ordered, That the same committee wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and desire him to acquaint the Senate at what time and place it will be most convenient for him that it should be presented.
Mr. STRONG, from the above-mentioned committee, reported that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES proposed to receive the Address of the Senate at 11 o'clock to-morrow.
FRIDAY, November 9.
The Senate waited on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES at his own house, and the PRESIDENT pro tempore, in their name, communicated to him the Address agreed to on the 8th instant, which is as follows:
To the President of the United States:
Accept, sir, our grateful acknowledgments for your Address at the opening of the present session. We participate with you in the satisfaction arising from the continuance of the general prosperity of the nation, but it is not without the most sincere concern that we are informed that the reiterated efforts which have been made to establish peace with the hostile Indians, have hitherto failed to accomplish that desired object. Hoping that the measures still depending may prove more successful than those which have preceded them, we shall nevertheless concur in every necessary preparation for the alternative; and, should the Indians on either side of the Ohio persist in their hostilities, fidelity to the Union, as well as affection to our fellow-citizens on the frontiers, will ensure our decided co-operation in every measure which shall be deemed requisite for their protection and safety.
At the same time that we avow the obligation of the Government to afford its protection to every part of the Union, we cannot refrain from expressing our regret that even a small portion of our fellow-citizens in any quarter of it should have combined to oppose the operation of the law for the collection of duties on spirits distilled within the United States: a law repeatedly sanctioned by the authority of the nation, and, at this juncture, materially connected with the safety and protection of those who oppose it. Should the means already adopted fail in securing obedience to this law, such further measures as may be thought necessary to carry the same into complete operation cannot fail to receive the approbation of the Legislature, and the support of every patriotic citizen.
It yields us particular pleasure to learn, that the productiveness of the revenue of the present year will probably supersede the necessity of any additional tax for the service of the next.
The organization of the government of the State of Kentucky being an event peculiarly interesting to a part of our fellow-citizens, and conducive to the general order, affords us particular satisfaction.
We are happy to learn that the high state of our credit abroad has been evinced by the terms on which the new loans have been negotiated.
In the course of the session we shall proceed to take into consideration the several objects which you have been pleased to recommend to our attention; and, keeping in view the importance of union and stability in the public councils, we shall labor to render our decisions conducive to the safety and happiness of our country.
We repeat with pleasure our assurances of confidence in your Administration, and our ardent wish that your unabated zeal for the public good may be rewarded by the durable prosperity of the nation, and every ingredient of personal happiness.
JOHN LANGDON,
President pro tempore.
To this Address, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES was pleased to make the following reply:
I derive much pleasure, gentlemen, from your very satisfactory Address. The renewed assurances of your confidence in my Administration, and the expression of your wish for my personal happiness, claim and receive my particular acknowledgments. In my future endeavor for the public welfare, to which my duty may call me, I shall not cease to count upon the firm, enlightened, and patriotic support of the Senate.
G. WASHINGTON.
The Senate returned to their Chamber.
MONDAY, November 12.
SAMUEL JOHNSTON, from the State of North Carolina, and JOSEPH STANTON, from the State of Rhode Island, attended.
WEDNESDAY, November 14.
The petition of William Dunbar, executor of the last will and testament of George Galphin, deceased, late a Commissioner of Indian affairs, was presented and read, praying in behalf of the children of the said George Galphin, that the compensation allowed to the other Commissioners of Indian affairs may be extended to them, the legal representatives of their late father.
On motion that this petition be referred to a committee, it passed in the negative.
FRIDAY, November 23.
RICHARD BASSETT, from the State of Delaware, attended and took his seat.
THURSDAY, January 3, 1793.
A motion was made and seconded that the Senate adopt the following resolutions, to wit:
"Resolved, That the Senate of the United States are individually responsible for their conduct to their constituents, who are entitled to such information as will enable them to form a just estimate thereof.
"Resolved, That the journals are too voluminous and expensive to circulate generally; and, if it were otherwise, that the information they contain, as to the principles, motives, and designs of individual members, is inadequate.
"Resolved, That this information, defective as it is, becomes more nugatory and delusive, in proportion as the occasion for it increases, since the Senate make their own Journals.
"Resolved, That the conducting of the Legislative and Judicial powers of the Senate in public, and suffering an account of their measures and deliberations to be published in the newspapers, is the best means of diffusing general information concerning the principles, motives, and conduct of individual members; and that, by withholding this information, responsibility becomes unavailing, the influence of their constituents over one branch of the Legislature, in a great measure, annihilated, and the best security which experience has devised against the abuse of power and a maladministration abandoned.
"Resolved, therefore, That it be a standing rule that the doors of the Senate Chamber remain open whilst the Senate shall be sitting in a Legislative and Judicative capacity, except on such occasions as, in their judgment, may require secrecy; and that this rule shall commence and be in force on the first day of the next session of Congress.
"Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate request the Commissioners of the city and county of Philadelphia to cause a proper gallery to be erected for the accommodation of an audience."
On motion that the resolves now proposed be printed for the use of the Senate, it passed in the negative.
Ordered, That they lie on the table, and that the consideration thereof be the order of the day for the first Monday in February next.
FRIDAY, January 4.
The Senate resumed the second reading of the bill respecting fugitives from justice, and persons escaping from the service of their masters, and the report of the committee thereon; and, after debate, the consideration thereof was further postponed.
FRIDAY, January 18.
The bill respecting fugitives from justice and persons escaping from the service of their masters, was read the third time, and being further amended, on a motion to strike out "five hundred dollars," for the purpose of inserting a less sum in section 4th, the penalty on "any person who shall knowingly and willingly obstruct or hinder such claimant, his agent or attorney, in so seizing or arresting such fugitive from labor, or shall rescue such fugitive from such claimant, his agent, or attorney, when so arrested, pursuant to the authority herein given or declared, or shall harbor or conceal such person, after notice that he or she was a fugitive from labor as aforesaid;" it passed in the negative.
Resolved, that this bill pass, that it be engrossed, and that the title thereof be, "An act respecting fugitives from justice, and persons escaping from the service of their masters."
MONDAY, February 4.
RICHARD POTTS, from the State of Maryland, appointed in place of CHARLES CARROLL, resigned, produced his credentials, and took his seat.
Agreeably to the order of the day, the Senate proceeded to consider the motion made the 3d of January, 1793, "That the doors of the Senate Chamber remain open whilst the Senate shall be sitting in their Legislative and Judicative capacity."
On motion for the previous question, to wit: Shall the question be now put on the following preliminary resolutions?
"Resolved, That the Senate of the States are, individually, responsible for their conduct to their constituents, who are entitled to such information as will enable them to form a just estimate thereof:
"Resolved, That the journals are too voluminous and expensive to circulate generally; and, if it were otherwise, that the information they contain, as to the principles, motives, and designs, of individual members, is inadequate:
"Resolved, That this information, defective as it is, becomes more nugatory and delusive, in proportion as the occasion for it increases, since the Senate make their own journals:
"Resolved, That the conducting of the Legislative and Judicial powers of the Senate in public, and suffering an account of their measures and deliberations to be published in the newspapers, is the best means of diffusing general information concerning the principles, motives, and conduct, of individual members: and that, by withholding this information, responsibility becomes unavailing, the influence of their constituents over one branch of the Legislature in a great measure annihilated, and the best security which experience has devised against the abuse of power and a maladministration abandoned:"
It passed in the negative--yeas 7, nays 21, as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Burr, Butler, Edwards, Gunn, Monroe, Potts, and Taylor.
NAYS.--Messrs. Bassett, Bradley, Brown, Cabot, Dickinson, Ellsworth, Foster, Hawkins, Henry, Johnston, Izard, King, Langdon, Morris, Read, Robinson, Rutherford, Stanton, Sherman, Strong, and Wingate.
And on motion to agree to the main question, to wit:
"that the doors of the Senate Chamber remain open whilst the Senate shall be sitting in a Legislative and Judicative capacity, except on such occasions as, in their judgment, may require secrecy; and that this rule shall commence and be in force on the first day of the next session of Congress."
It passed in the negative--yeas 10, nays 18, as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Brown, Burr, Butler, Edwards, Gunn, Hawkins, King, Monroe, Potts, and Taylor.
NAYS.--Messrs. Bassett, Bradley, Cabot, Dickinson, Ellsworth, Foster, Henry, Johnston, Izard, Langdon, Morris, Read, Robinson, Rutherford, Sherman, Stanton, Strong, and Wingate.
On the question to agree to the last resolution moved for on this subject, it passed in the negative.
TUESDAY, February 5.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate, that the House of Representatives have resolved, that a committee be appointed to join such committee as may be appointed by the Senate to ascertain and report a mode of examining the votes for PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT, and of notifying the persons who shall be elected of their election; and for regulating the time, place, and manner, of administering the oath of office to the PRESIDENT; and have appointed a committee on their part.
This resolution of the House was read.
Ordered, That the consideration thereof be postponed until to-morrow.
The Senate proceeded to consider the amendment of the House of Representatives to the bill sent from the Senate for concurrence, entitled, "An act respecting fugitives from justice, and persons escaping from the service of their masters," and agreed to the amendment, to wit: To strike out the word "deemed," in section first.
Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives therewith.
WEDNESDAY, February 6.
The Senate proceeded to consider the resolution of the House of Representatives, that a committee be appointed, to join such committee as may be appointed by the Senate, to ascertain and report a mode of examining the votes for PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT, and of notifying the persons who shall be elected of their election, and for regulating the time, place and manner of administering the oath of office to the PRESIDENT.
Resolved, That the Senate concur in this resolution, and that Messrs. KING, IZARD, and STRONG be the committee on the part of the Senate.
MONDAY, February 11.
Mr. KING, from the joint committee, appointed the 6th February, instant, reported that the two Houses should assemble in the Senate Chamber on Wednesday next, at twelve o'clock; that one person be appointed a teller, on the part of the Senate, to make a list of the votes as they shall be declared; that the result shall be delivered to the PRESIDENT of the Senate, who shall announce the state of the vote, and the persons elected, to the two Houses assembled as aforesaid; which shall be deemed a declaration of the persons elected PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the journals of the two Houses, and the report was agreed to.
TUESDAY, February 12.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate, that the House of Representatives agree to the report of the joint committee appointed the 6th of February, instant, respecting the manner of counting the votes for PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
Ordered, That Mr. KING be appointed, on the part of the Senate, a teller of the votes for PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, conformably to the report of the joint committee, agreed to the 11th instant.
WEDNESDAY, February 13.
Ordered, That the Secretary notify the House of Representatives that the Senate are ready to meet them in the Senate Chamber, to attend the opening and counting the vote for PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, as the constitution provides.
The two Houses having accordingly assembled, the certificates of the Electors of the fifteen States in the Union, which came by express, were, by the VICE PRESIDENT, opened, read, and delivered to the tellers appointed for the purpose, who, having examined and ascertained the votes, presented a list of them to the VICE PRESIDENT; which list was read to the two Houses, and is as follows:
FOR GEORGE WASHINGTON.
New Hampshire, 6 Massachusetts, 16 Rhode Island, 4 Connecticut, 9 Vermont, 3 New York, 12 New Jersey, 7 Pennsylvania, 15 Delaware, 3 Maryland, 8 Virginia, 21 Kentucky, 4 North Carolina, 12 South Carolina, 8 Georgia, 4 --- 132
FOR JOHN ADAMS.
New Hampshire, 6 Massachusetts, 16 Rhode Island, 4 Connecticut, 9 Vermont, 3 New Jersey, 7 Pennsylvania, 14 Delaware, 3 Maryland, 8 South Carolina, 7 -- 77 FOR GEORGE CLINTON.
New York, 12 Pennsylvania, 1 Virginia, 21 North Carolina, 12 Georgia, 4 -- 50
FOR THOMAS JEFFERSON.
Kentucky, 4
FOR AARON BURR.
South Carolina, 1
Whereupon the VICE PRESIDENT declared GEORGE WASHINGTON unanimously elected PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES, for the period of four years, to commence with the fourth day of March next; and JOHN ADAMS elected by a plurality of votes, VICE PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES, for the same period, to commence with the 4th day of March next.
After which, the VICE PRESIDENT delivered the duplicate certificates of the Electors of the several States, received by post, together with those which came by express to the Secretary of the Senate.
The two Houses then separated, and the Senate adjourned.
THURSDAY, February 14.
Mr. KING, from the committee appointed the 6th instant, to join the committee on the part of the House of Representatives, to report a mode of notifying the person who should be elected PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES of his election, submitted the following resolve:
Resolved, That a committee be appointed to join such committee as shall be appointed by the House of Representatives, to wait on the PRESIDENT and notify him of his unanimous re-election to the office of PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
And the report was adopted. Ordered, That Messrs. KING, IZARD, and STRONG, be the committee on the part of the Senate.
A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that the House of Representatives have adopted the report of the joint committee, appointed the 6th instant, to ascertain and report a mode of examining the votes for President and VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and for other purposes; and have appointed a joint committee on their part to wait on the PRESIDENT, and notify him of his unanimous re-election to the office of PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
FRIDAY, February 15.
Mr. KING, from the joint committee appointed for that purpose, reported:
"That pursuant to the resolutions of the 14th instant, the joint committee of the Senate and House of Representatives have this day waited on the PRESIDENT, and notified him of his unanimous re-election to the office of PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES."
MONDAY, February 18.
On motion to adopt the following resolution, to wit:
Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be instructed to revise the account of the pension granted by Congress for the education and board of Hugh Mercer, son of the late General Mercer, from its date to the present period, and correct any error that may have taken place therein, paying all arrearages, if any now due; and that he likewise pay hereafter without account, annually, and until his education shall be completed, for that purpose, to the guardian of the said Hugh, the sum of four hundred dollars.
It was agreed to postpone the consideration of this motion until to-morrow.
THURSDAY, February 28.
The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a certificate, purporting that the Legislature of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania have this day chosen ALBERT GALLATIN a Senator of the United States.
FRIDAY, March 1.
The PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a Letter from the Secretary of the Department of State, enclosing a triplicate certificate of the votes of the Electors of the State of Kentucky for PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, obtained by express, sent from the seat of Government, as the law provides.
SATURDAY, March 2.
Mr. KING, from the committee appointed this day on the communication of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, relative to his taking the oath of office, reported that the Secretary inform the House of Representatives that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES will, on Monday next, take the oath of office required by the constitution, in the Senate Chamber, at twelve o'clock; and that he inform the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES that the Senate will be in session at that time. And the report was adopted.
SPECIAL SESSION.
MONDAY, March 4.
In conformity to the summons from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, the Senate assembled in the Senate Chamber.
The Hon. JOHN LANGDON, President pro tempore, read the summons of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, as follows:
The President of the United States to the President of the Senate:
Certain matters, touching the public good, requiring that the Senate shall be convened on Monday the 4th instant, I have desired their attendance, as I do yours, by these presents, at the Senate Chamber, in Philadelphia, on that day; then and there to receive and deliberate on such communications as shall be made to you on my part.
G. WASHINGTON.
March 1, 1793.
The following Senators were present:
JOHN LANGDON, from New Hampshire. GEORGE CABOT, from Massachusetts. THEODORE FOSTER, from Rhode Island. OLIVER ELLSWORTH and ROGER SHERMAN, from Connecticut. RUFUS KING, from New York. JOHN RUTHERFORD, from New Jersey. ROBERT MORRIS, from Pennsylvania. GEORGE READ, from Delaware. JOHN HENRY and RICHARD POTTS, from Maryland. JAMES MONROE, from Virginia. JOHN BROWN and JOHN EDWARDS, from Kentucky. BENJAMIN HAWKINS, from North Carolina. RALPH IZARD, from South Carolina. JAMES GUNN, from Georgia.
SAMUEL LIVERMORE, from the State of New Hampshire, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the Senate; and the oath was administered to him by the PRESIDENT of the Senate, as the law provides.
Agreeably to notice given by the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, on the 2d instant, he came to the Senate Chamber and took his seat in the chair usually assigned the PRESIDENT of the Senate, who, on this occasion, was seated at the right, and in advance of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; a seat on the left, and also in advance, being provided for Judge Cushing, appointed to administer the oath: the doors of the Senate Chamber being open, the Heads of the Departments, Foreign Ministers, the late Speaker, and such members of the late House of Representatives as were in town, together with as many other spectators as could be accommodated, were present.
After a short pause, the PRESIDENT of the Senate arose, and addressed the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, as follows:
"SIR: One of the Judges of the Supreme Court of the United States is now present, and ready to administer to you the oath required by the constitution to be taken by the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES."
On which the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, rising from his seat, was pleased to address the audience as follows:
"FELLOW-CITIZENS: I am again called upon, by the voice of my country, to execute the functions of its Chief Magistrate. When the occasion proper for it shall arrive, I shall endeavor to express the high sense I entertain of this distinguished honor, and of the confidence which has been reposed in me by the people of United America.
"Previous to the execution of any official act of the PRESIDENT, the constitution requires an oath of office. This oath I am now about to take, and in your presence; that, if it shall be found, during my administration of the Government, I have, in any instance, violated, willingly or knowingly, the injunction thereof, I may (besides incurring constitutional punishment) be subject to the upbraidings of all who are now witnesses of the present solemn ceremony."
Judge CUSHING then administered the oath of office required by the constitution; after which, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES retired, and the spectators dispersed.
After acting upon several nominations received from the PRESIDENT, the Senate adjourned sine die.
SECOND CONGRESS.--SECOND SESSION.
PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
MONDAY, November 5, 1792.
This being the day appointed by law for the meeting of the present Congress, the following members appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats:
From New Hampshire, NICHOLAS GILMAN, SAMUEL LIVERMORE, and JEREMIAH SMITH.
From Massachusetts, FISHER AMES, SHEARJASHUR BOURNE, ELBRIDGE GERRY, BENJAMIN GOODHUE, GEORGE THATCHER, and ARTEMAS WARD.
From Rhode Island, GEORGE LEONARD, BENJAMIN BOURNE.
From Connecticut, AMASA LEARNED, JONATHAN STURGES, and JONATHAN TRUMBULL, (Speaker.)
From Vermont, NATHANIEL NILES and ISRAEL SMITH.
From New York, EGBERT BENSON, JOHN LAURANCE, and THOMAS TREDWELL.
From New Jersey, ELIAS BOUDINOT, ABRAHAM CLARK, and JONATHAN DAYTON.
From Pennsylvania, THOMAS FITZSIMONS and FREDERICK AUGUSTUS MUHLENBERG.
From Maryland, PHILIP KEY and WILLIAM VANS MURRAY.
From Virginia, WILLIAM B. GILES, JAMES MADISON, ANDREW MOORE, JOSIAH PARKER, ABRAHAM VENABLE, and ALEXANDER WHITE.
From North Carolina, NATHANIEL MACON, JOHN STEELE, and HUGH WILLIAMSON.
From South Carolina, WILLIAM SMITH, THOMAS SUMTER, and THOMAS TUDOR TUCKER.
From Georgia, ABRAHAM BALDWIN and FRANCIS WILLIS.
A quorum of members being present, a message was sent to the Senate to inform that body thereof. And a similar message was received by the House from the Senate; and that JOHN LANGDON had been chosen their President pro tempore.
A joint committee were then appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, to inform him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may think proper to make them.
Resolved, That two Chaplains, of different denominations, be appointed to Congress, one by each House, to interchange weekly.
The House then proceeded to appoint a Chaplain on their part, when a majority of votes appeared in favor of the Reverend ASHBEL GREEN.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Governor of Georgia, enclosing a proclamation and return of the election of JOHN MILLEDGE, to serve as one of the members of this House for the said State, in the room of ANTHONY WAYNE, whose seat was declared vacant; which was read and ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BOUDINOT, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled and ready to receive any communications he may be pleased to make to them, reported that the committee had performed that service, and that the PRESIDENT was pleased to say, that he would make a communication to both Houses of Congress to-morrow, at twelve o'clock in the Senate Chamber.
TUESDAY, November 6.
Several other members, viz: from New York, JAMES GORDON; from Pennsylvania, JOHN WILKES KITTERA; and from Virginia, SAMUEL GRIFFIN and JOHN PAGE, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate are now ready, in the Senate Chamber, to attend this House in receiving the communication from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, agreeably to his notification to both Houses yesterday.
The SPEAKER, attended by the members of this House, then withdrew to the Senate Chamber for the purpose expressed in the message from the Senate; and, being returned, the SPEAKER laid before the House a copy of the Speech delivered by the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to both Houses of Congress, in the Senate Chamber. [A copy of the Speech appears in the proceedings of the Senate.]
Ordered, That the said Speech be committed to the consideration of a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.
WEDNESDAY, November 7.
Defeat of General St. Clair.
Ordered, That the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the late expedition under Major General St. Clair, which was made on the 8th day of May last, be referred to the consideration of a Committee of the whole House on Wednesday next.
Answer to the President.
The order of the day being called for, (Mr. LAURANCE in the chair,) the Speech of the PRESIDENT, delivered yesterday to Congress, was taken up; and, on motion of Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina, the following resolve was agreed to: "That a committee be appointed to prepare and report a respectful Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech delivered to both Houses of Congress at the opening of the present session; with assurances, that they would take into consideration the important matters therein contained." An amendment was now moved, to strike out the word "important;" but it was negatived, as being a word of too much importance to be neglected. The resolution was carried, in substance, as above, and the committee rose and reported it. The House immediately agreed, and a committee of three--Messrs. MADISON, BENSON, and MURRAY--were appointed by the SPEAKER to prepare the answer in conformity with the said resolve.
The following Message was received from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:
_Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:_
I lay before you copies of certain papers relative to the Spanish interference in the execution of the treaty entered into in the year 1790, between the United States, and the Creek nation of Indians, together with a letter from the Secretary of State to the President of the United States, on the same subject.
G. WASHINGTON.
UNITED STATES, November 7, 1792.
The papers accompanying the said message were read and ordered to lie on the table.
The SPEAKER laid before the House two letters from Thomas Barclay, Consul of the United States at the Court of Morocco, one dated the 28th of May, the other the 17th of July, 1792, enclosing petitions from Richard O'Brien, in behalf of himself and other citizens of the United States, now in captivity at Algiers, stating the peculiar hardships they have undergone during the time they have been kept in slavery, and praying that Congress will consider their distressed situation, and take such measures for their releasement as to their wisdom shall seem meet.
Ordered, That the said letters and petitions be referred to the Secretary of State, for information.
THURSDAY, November 8.
Several other members, to wit: from Connecticut, JAMES HILLHOUSE; from Pennsylvania, WILLIAM FINDLAY and ISRAEL JACOBS; and from Kentucky, ALEXANDER D. ORR, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
SATURDAY, November 10.
Two other members, to wit: PETER SYLVESTER, from New York, and THOMAS HARTLEY, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
Address to the President.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; and, after some time spent therein, the SPEAKER resumed the chair, and Mr. LAURANCE reported that the committee had had the said Address under consideration, and made several amendments thereto; which were severally twice read, and agreed to by the House.
And then the said Address, as amended, being again read, was, on the question put thereon, agreed to by the House, as follows:
"SIR: The House of Representatives, who always feel a satisfaction in meeting you, are much concerned that the occasion for mutual felicitation afforded by the circumstances favorable to the national prosperity should be abated by a continuance of the hostile spirit of many of the Indian tribes, and, particularly, that the reiterated efforts for effecting a general pacification with them should have issued in new proofs of their persevering enmity, and the barbarous sacrifice of citizens, who, as the messengers of peace, were distinguishing themselves by their zeal for the public service. In our deliberations on this important department of our affairs, we shall be disposed to pursue every measure that may be dictated by the sincerest desire, on one hand, of cultivating peace, and manifesting, by every practicable regulation, our benevolent regard for the welfare of those misguided people; and by the duty we feel, on the other, to provide effectually for the safety and protection of our fellow-citizens.
"While with regret we learn that symptoms of opposition to the law imposing duties on spirits distilled within the United States, have manifested themselves, we reflect with consolation, that they are confined to a small portion of our fellow-citizens. It is not more essential to the preservation of true liberty, that a Government should be always ready to listen to the representations of its constituents, and to accommodate its measures to the sentiments and wishes of every part of them, as far as will consist with the good of the whole, than it is, that the just authority of the laws should be steadfastly maintained. Under this impression, every department of the Government, and all good citizens must approve the measures you have taken, and the purpose you have formed, to execute this part of your trust with firmness and energy; and be assured, sir, of every constitutional aid and co-operation, which may become requisite on our part. And we hope that, while the progress of contentment under the law in question, is as obvious as it is rational, no particular part of the community may be permitted to withdraw from the general burdens of the country, by a conduct as irreconcilable to national justice, as it is inconsistent with public decency.
"The productive state of the public revenue, and the confirmation of the credit of the United States abroad, evinced by the loans at Antwerp and Amsterdam, are communications the more gratifying, as they enforce the obligation to enter on systematic and effectual arrangements for discharging the public debt, as fast as the conditions of it will permit; and we take pleasure in the opportunity to assure you of our entire concurrence in the opinion, that no measure can be more desirable, whether viewed with an eye to the urgent wish of the community, or the intrinsic importance of promoting so happy a change in our situation.
"The adoption of a constitution for the State of Kentucky, is an event on which we join in all the satisfaction you have expressed. It may be considered as particularly interesting, since, besides the immediate benefits resulting from it, it is another auspicious demonstration of the facility and success with which an enlightened people is capable of providing, by free and deliberate plans of government, for their own safety and happiness.
"The operation of the law establishing the Post Office, as it relates to the transmission of newspapers, will merit our particular inquiry and attention, the circulation of political intelligence through these vehicles being justly reckoned among the surest means of preventing the degeneracy of a free government, as well as of recommending every salutary public measure to the confidence and co-operation of all virtuous citizens.
"The several other matters which you have communicated and recommended, will, in their order, receive the attention due to them, and our discussions will, in all cases, we trust, be guided by a proper respect for harmony and stability in the public Councils, and a desire to conciliate, more and more, the attachment of our constituents to the constitution, by measures accommodated to the true ends for which it was established."
Resolved, That the SPEAKER, attended by the House, do present the said Address, and that Mr. MADISON, Mr. BENSON, and Mr. MURRAY, be a committee to wait on the PRESIDENT, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the same.
Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, reported that the committee had waited on the PRESIDENT, who signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive the said Address at 12 o'clock on Monday next, at his own house.
MONDAY, November 12.
Another member, to wit, JOHN BAPTIST ASHE, from North Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.
Address to the President.
The SPEAKER, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and there presented to him the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to which the PRESIDENT made the following reply:
"GENTLEMEN: It gives me pleasure to express to you the satisfaction which your Address affords me. I feel, as I ought, the approbation you manifest of the measures I have taken, and the purpose I have formed, to maintain, pursuant to the trust reposed in me by the constitution, the respect which is due to the laws; and the assurance which you, at the same time, give me, of every constitutional aid and co-operation that may become requisite on your part.
"This is a new proof of that enlightened solicitude for the establishment and confirmation of public order, which, embracing a zealous regard for the principles of true liberty, has guided the deliberations of the House of Representatives; a perseverance in which can alone secure, under the Divine blessing, the real and permanent felicity of our common country.
"G. WASHINGTON."
The House having returned to their Chamber, resumed the reading of the papers communicated by the Secretary of War, on Wednesday last, relative to the Indians north-west and south of the river Ohio, and to the troops in the service of the United States, and made a farther progress therein.
TUESDAY, November 13.
Two other members, to wit: ROBERT BARNWELL and DANIEL HUGER, from South Carolina, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
Defeat of General St. Clair.
On a motion made and seconded, that the House do come to the following resolution:
"Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury and the Secretary of War be notified that this House intend, on Wednesday next, to take into consideration the Report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the late expedition under General St. Clair, to the end that they may attend the House, and furnish such information as may be conducive to the due investigation of the matters stated in the said report:"
Mr. WILLIAMSON moved to strike out the latter part of the resolution, which respected the attendance of the Secretaries on the House. This motion, if carried, leaves the resolution a simple proposition to inform those officers that the House were, on Wednesday, to take the report on the failure of General St. Clair's expedition into consideration.
Mr. VENABLE objected generally to the resolution, as inconsistent with the dignity of the House. He doubted the propriety of the measure altogether. The gentlemen are not impeached, and therefore the House has no right to cite them to make their appearance; and, with respect to information, the House can command such from the Heads of Departments as they may see proper to require. He was at a loss in attempting to investigate the object of the resolution. He could see no purpose that it would answer, which could not as well be obtained without it.
Mr. WHITE offered several objections to the resolution, of a similar import with the above.
Mr. DAYTON supported the motion by a few remarks, stating the importance of that information which those gentlemen alone could give. He adverted to the report of the committee, which he observed had exculpated the commanding General on that expedition, whereas he was of opinion that the failure was owing to the misconduct of that gentleman.
Mr. TUCKER objected to the resolution. He preferred the mode of requiring that information which the House might think necessary, in writing.
Mr. MADISON objected to the motion on constitutional grounds, and as being contrary to the practice of the House. He had not, he said, thoroughly revolved the matter in his own mind, and therefore was not prepared to state fully the effects which would result from the adoption of the resolution; but he would hazard thus much, that it would form an innovation in the mode of conducting the business of this House, and introduce a precedent which would lead to perplexing and embarrassing consequences; as it involved a conclusion, in respect to the principles of the Government, which at an earlier day would have been revolted from. He was decidedly in favor of written information.
Mr. CLARK was opposed to the resolution; as a member of the committee who made the report, he had no apprehension; with respect to information, the report and the vouchers are before the House; and such further inquiry may be made of the proper officers as the House may think necessary.
Mr. AMES supported the resolution. He noticed the impressions which the failure of the late expedition had made on the public mind. Characters had suffered in the general estimation. It was of the utmost importance that a thorough investigation should take place, that if the failure of the expedition was a mere casualty, and the fortune of war, it might be made to appear; or if it was owing to misconduct, the blame might fall on the proper subjects. The mode suggested to obtain information appeared to him the best that could be adopted--the most adequate to the object. It was due to justice, to truth, and to the national honor, to take effectual measures to investigate the business thoroughly. This inquiry appears to be the beginning of an arrangement preparatory to an impeachment; on whom this will fall, he should not presume to say; but still it places the subject in an important point of view, and shows in the strongest manner the necessity of adopting the best possible mode of ascertaining the real state of facts. This, he conceived, could not be done so effectually as by the mode proposed in the resolution.
Mr. GILES objected to the resolution. He preferred a thorough discussion of the report, in the first place, and a comparison of the vouchers with the report; and if, in the issue, it should appear necessary to call for information from these officers, it could then be done; but, in the present state of the business, to adopt the resolution would place the committee in a very disagreeable situation.
Mr. LAURANCE observed that the committee, in their report, say that, for want of time, they had not been able to complete it; it is, then, apparent from the report itself that it is immature. He stated several particulars in the report which were incomplete, and from hence inferred that there was material information to be received previous to being able to form a competent judgment on the matter. He observed that, as the information must be had, he saw no necessity of postponing the attendance of those officers in the first instance.
Mr. MADISON, in reply to Mr. AMES's remark, that the best possible mode ought to be adopted, observed, that there seemed to be different ideas entertained by the different advocates of the resolution; one seemed to implicate the officers alluded to as parties concerned; another appeared to consider them merely as witnesses. For his part, he thought there was no other way of proceeding, but that of adopting one or the other of these alternatives: either to take up the report and discuss its merits, or for the House to begin the inquiry themselves, de novo.
Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the resolution. He could not see any advantage which would result from adopting it. He thought the causes of the failure of the expedition were sufficiently obvious, without criminating any body. He adverted to these causes--they were, the rawness of the troops, and the superiority of the Indians as marksmen. On these points he could not see what information could be derived from the Secretary of the Treasury. He thought that the Legislature had gone too far already, and that no satisfaction would result from further proceedings, but that the subject would appear more and more involved.
Mr. BOUDINOT, after stating sundry particulars relative to the state of the public mind at the time of the report, adverted to several parts of it which appear to criminate particular persons, some of whom were absent at the time of the investigation on which the report is founded. He therefore urged the necessity of receiving from the Heads of the Departments that information which was requisite to throw light on several parts of the report, and that this ought to be done previous to taking the report into consideration.
Mr. FITZSIMONS said he should vote against the resolution. He did not think this the proper time to call for the information alluded to; nor the mode proposed a proper one. Some remarks have been made on the report, though it is not before the House; to these he should not particularly reply, but would only observe, that no person had applied to the House for redress of any supposed injury received by the report. It has been said that the inquiry ought to have been a military one; but it was well known that it was impossible to institute such an inquiry by reason of the want of officers. He then gave a sketch of the mode of proceeding adopted by the committee in conducting the inquiry, to show that they had availed themselves of every means of information within their power.
Mr. WILLIAMSON said he had moved to strike out the latter part of the resolution, but he was equally opposed to the whole of it; and since he had heard the remarks of several gentlemen, on both sides of the House, he was clearly of opinion that the best way was to dispose of it altogether, and let the subject proceed in the course which it had already taken.
Mr. GILES observed, that he thought there was less delicacy observed on this occasion, in respect to the committee, than was usual in this House. With respect to the report, the vouchers on which every assertion is founded are before the House. As to the incompleteness of the report, it is an immaterial object; the few blanks it contains are occasioned by the want of time to examine the voluminous papers necessary to be examined, in order to ascertain some of the facts--facts not in themselves of the first importance. He observed, that he had not the smallest objection to the fullest investigation of the subject; he was in favor of all the information that could be possibly obtained; he objected not only to the mode now contended for, which he thought not only liable to all the objections which had been made, but to many others which might be offered.
Mr. DAYTON observed that he was one of those who were not satisfied with the report; he did not think the conclusion which exculpated the commanding officer could be supported by the report itself. He adverted to several facts stated in it, which showed that the commander must have been highly culpable; he instanced the slowness of his movements, the dilatoriness in constructing forts, and his being surprised by the enemy. He thought that the remarks which had fallen from gentlemen, on what he had said, were illiberal, as they had virtually impeached his candor, when he was not conscious of deviating from its dictates. It was not his intention to have touched on the merits of the report, but he had been impelled to do it from the turn the debate had taken.
Mr. GERRY was in favor of the resolution. He enlarged on the magnitude of the object of investigation, and insisted that it was the indispensable duty of the House thoroughly to probe the subject to the bottom, that if any persons have been to blame they may suffer, or if the event which has taken place, by which the national character has suffered, and so severe and unproductive an expense has been incurred, amounting probably to one million dollars, has been owing to circumstances which could not be avoided or controlled, the public may receive satisfaction as to the whole matter.
Mr. PAGE objected to the resolution, particularly to the precedent it would establish; but, at the same time, he was in favor of the fullest inquiry the subject was susceptible of. He said, the mode proposed would operate to clog the freedom of inquiry, and the freedom of debate.
Mr. AMES, adverting to the spirit of the report, pointed out the peculiar situation of the two Secretaries, and that they did not stand on the same ground with other persons who are not so intimately implicated in the matter. He alluded to the various objections which had been urged from precedent, from the fulness of the investigation which the subject had undergone in the hands of the committee, and from the remark by Mr. LIVERMORE, that sufficient had already been done. To this last objection he particularly replied, by saying that the public wanted further satisfaction, and that the House could not justify themselves to their constituents without a stricter and fuller investigation, that the whole of the facts might be laid before them.
Mr. MADISON said, the mode now proposed involved a dereliction of the only practicable mode of transacting public business; and that, however imperfect that mode might be, still he believed that it was the only one that had received the sanction of experience and utility. He therefore hoped that the resolution would be rejected, and the mode already adopted persevered in, and the necessary information called for in writing, from every person in anywise interested or competent to give it.
Mr. W. SMITH supported the resolution. He showed by the report itself, and from the reasoning used by gentlemen in opposition to the resolution, that the two Secretaries were implicated in the causes of the failure of the expedition; from hence, he inferred the justice and propriety of giving them an opportunity of exculpating themselves.
Mr. GERRY expressed surprise at the apprehension which some gentlemen appear to entertain of the measure of introducing the Heads of Departments into the House; for his part he had no such apprehensions. The Secretary will attend at the orders of the House merely to give such information as may be required, and not as members or ministers to influence and govern the determinations of the House.
Mr. VENABLE objected further to the resolution; he urged the impropriety of any of the Heads of Departments coming forward, and attempting in any way to influence the deliberations of the Legislature.
Mr. LAURANCE replied to Mr. VENABLE; he observed that the gentleman appeared to mistake the object of the resolution; it was not contemplated that either of the Secretaries should appear on the floor of the House to influence, in any degree, its decisions; they are to be called on merely for information.
Mr. MURRAY objected to the resolution. The report, he observed, is made to the House; if in the course of its discussion any further light or information should be deemed necessary, it may then be called for, and in that mode which shall appear most eligible; at present the question appears to be premature. Mr. MURRAY added several other remarks, and then the question being put, Mr. WILLIAMSON's motion for striking out was carried.
And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said resolution as amended, it passed in the negative.
Resolved, That the Committee of the whole House, to whom is referred the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the expedition under Major General St. Clair, be empowered to send for persons, papers, and records, for their information.
WEDNESDAY, November 14.
Another member, to wit, WILLIAM BARRY GROVE, from North Carolina, appeared and took his seat in the House.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, together with a memorial of Samuel Hodgdon, late Quartermaster General to the Army, respectively praying that they may be heard, and permitted to give information and explanations as to the causes of the failure of the expedition under Major General St. Clair; which were read. The letter of the Secretary of War is as follows:
WAR DEPARTMENT, November 14, 1792.
SIR: After the close of the last session of Congress, I saw with much concern the report to the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the expedition, under Major General St. Clair, of the 8th of May, 1792; which, having been presented to the House in the last moments of the session, was ordered to be printed, and has since circulated in the public newspapers throughout the United States, containing suggestions, most of them founded upon ex parte investigation, which have been understood in a sense very injurious to my reputation.
Learning that the present day was appointed for taking into consideration the above-mentioned report, I have waited with anxious expectation for some act of the House enabling me to attend the progress of the examination upon which they are about to enter, for the purpose of furnishing such information and explanations as might conduce to a right understanding of facts, in which I am so materially implicated. The failure of a proposition, which I am informed was made to the House with that view, has added to my solicitude and regret.
Thus situated, I feel myself called upon to ask of the justice of the House that some mode may be devised, by which it will be put into my power to be present during the course of the intended inquiry, as well to hear the evidence on which the several allegations contained in the report are founded, as to offer the information and explanations to which I have alluded.
To this step I am impelled by a persuasion that an accurate and satisfactory investigation cannot otherwise be had with equal advantage, if at all. And my entire reliance upon the equity and impartiality of the House, will not permit a doubt to exist on my part that such an investigation will be exclusively the object of their desire and pursuit.
I have the honor to be, sir, with the highest respect, your most obedient humble servant,
H. KNOX.
The SPEAKER _of the honorable the House of Representatives of the U. S._
Defeat of General St. Clair.
And then the order of the day, that the House do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House on the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the expedition under Major General St. Clair, being taken up--
Mr. MADISON suggested that the most simple, most practicable and consistent plan would be, to recommit the report of the select committee, and refer the present applications[44] to the committee to whom the report shall be recommitted. He therefore moved that the Committee of the Whole should be discharged from considering the reports on the causes of the failure of the late expedition.
Mr. SMITH (S. C.) observed that several objections struck him in opposition to this motion. The House must at some period, said he, meet this case; if it is recommitted, there will be an impropriety in referring it to the same committee; if a new committee is appointed, they must begin the whole subject de novo; and, if their investigation should take up such a length of time as that of the former committee, the session will be expended, and at the close of it the business will recur on the House, and the same discussion will occur again that is now proposed. He hoped the House would therefore proceed in the consideration of the report, assign two or three days in the week for the purpose, and continue the investigation till the whole is finished.
Mr. GILES replied, that he had no doubt that the vouchers on which the committee had founded the report would appear sufficient to justify the decisions that they had made. He said that he did not suppose that the applicants would adduce any new information; one of them had been called on, he attended the committee, and he supposed that he had furnished all the information he was in possession of. He objected to a recommitment; as one of the committee, he was perfectly satisfied with the report; nor did he conceive there was any additional evidence to be produced, except it was of a recent date.
Mr. AMES said, he perceived such a disinclination to go into the subject as indicated a proper temper of mind in relation to the persons supposed to be in any ways interested in the ultimate decision of the House. He was opposed to a recommitment, as it would procrastinate instead of expediting the inquiry. He adverted to the report. Facts are stated; the public have been left to draw the inferences; the committee have not explicitly criminated any body; but they have determined, in several instances, who is not to blame. What is the situation of those who are implicated in the causes of the failure? Every citizen knows that, in consequence of the issue of the expedition, clamors against the War Department, in respect to Indian affairs, have rung through the Continent. Should public officers, who have been placed in situations of such importance, be silent, and submit calmly to such imputations, they would be unworthy of public confidence, unworthy to breathe the vital air. They now apply for an opportunity to be heard in their own vindication. Shall they be sent to a committee-room, and make their defence against the allegations brought forward to their disadvantage, which have been published to the world, in the hearing of perhaps ten or a dozen persons only? He hoped not--he thought justice to them and to the public required that they should be allowed to make their defence in the face of the world. Will not precluding them look like a wish to smother all further inquiry into the matter?
Mr. BALDWIN was in favor of recommitting; he said it was the most eligible mode, and was consonant to the practice of the House.
Mr. MADISON remarked that it had been said a disposition was discovered to smother inquiry. In reply he observed that, if he wished to prevent a thorough investigation, he should be in favor of the whole subject being undertaken by the House; because, he observed, that if a select committee of a few members took seven weeks to form an incomplete report, it must appear evident that so large a body as this House could never get through the matter. He further observed, that the same reason existed for referring the residue of the evidence to a select committee as induced the measure in the first instance.
Mr. FITZSIMONS said he was at first in favor of a recommitment, but on further consideration he was convinced the House would be able to get through the subject in a shorter time than a select committee. He added several other reasons which induced him to be in favor of the House proceeding with the report.
Mr. GERRY said it appeared to him that the only question seemed to be, whether the House or the select committee shall establish the facts. If these facts are established by the committee, would it give equal satisfaction as if they were established by the House? He conceived it would not; but, should the result be a conviction on the part of the House that some of the officers are culpable, will the House rest an impeachment on the report of the committee? He conceived the House ought to found their decisions on facts ascertained by themselves. It has been said there is no difference between the House and the committee. If this is the case, does it not imply a censure by the House on certain characters? He thought it did. It therefore becomes the House to discuss the report, that it may be determined on what footing it stands. If, in the case of a contested election, the House revolted from the idea of submitting their judgment to facts substantiated by a committee, the case before us is of unspeakably greater magnitude. For these, and several other reasons, he hoped the report would not be recommitted.
Mr. WILLIAMSON was in favor of the motion for recommitting; he supported his opinion by the uniform practice of the House, which in every case where new evidence was adduced, always provided that the new evidence should be examined by the same committee, who had originally brought in the report. He said if this mode was departed from, we should find no committee would bring forward a state of facts in future. He thought it was not treating the committee with proper candor to decide on their report in its present situation.
Mr. SYLVESTER observed, that the resolution of the House at the close of the last session, that they would take up the subject early in the present session, precluded a recommitment; he was therefore opposed to the motion.
Mr. BOUDINOT was in favor of a recommitment; he said, if there is new evidence to be brought, the House ought to wait till that is received and reported at the Clerk's table; and this he conceived ought to be done in the usual way, by a select committee; till the whole testimony is completed it appeared to him the House was not prepared to take one step in the matter.
Mr. MADISON replied to Mr. GERRY's allusion to the ease of the contested election. He inquired of him whether the House itself went into an investigation of facts in the first instance? He believed he would not say they did. With respect to the memorials, he inquired, whether, if they had been presented at the time of the investigation of the subject by the select committee, they would not have been referred to the committee? If they would then have been referred, the same reason exists for referring them to a select committee at the present time.
Mr. LAURANCE was of opinion that a recommitment would tend to a saving of time; the committee will not be obliged to go over the same ground again that has already been explored; all they will be obliged to do is, to investigate the new testimony which will be adduced. He hoped, therefore, that the motion would prevail.
Mr. GILES said, that the proceedings of the committee were public, and that the Secretaries could have attended all the time, had they seen proper. They attended but once, and then appeared extremely anxious to get away to attend to their offices. The committee would have been extremely glad to have had those gentlemen present oftener, and to receive all the information they could give, and supposed they had done it.
Mr. GERRY replied to Mr. MADISON. He said, if gentlemen would recur to the proceedings of the House on the contested election, they will find that the House expressly reserved to itself the right of substantiating the facts, which should appear from an examination of the depositions, taken in conformity to the resolutions of the House; and here he adverted to the mode pointed out by the House in taking those depositions. The adverse party was to be summoned to attend to the taking them; but in this report it appears that ex parte evidence has been admitted as the foundation on which some of the decisions have been made.
Mr. MURRAY supported the motion for a recommitment. He observed that the matter, in its present state, was so incomplete that he could not see how the House could proceed upon it. One part of the evidence only is finished, and the report is made on that evidence. Now, we are told new testimony is offered; let the whole be brought into view at once, and then the House will be in a situation to judge.
Mr. PAGE was in favor of a further commitment of the subject; but whether to the committee who made the report, or to a new committee, he should not take upon him to say. With respect to the admission of any head of a department to the bar of this House, except in case of an impeachment, he would never consent to it. It would be a precedent of a most dangerous nature, tending to a destruction of all freedom of inquiry by committees.
Mr. FINDLAY observed, that the committee wished that Mr. Hodgdon should have been present, but he did not make his appearance; the committee therefore proceeded on the testimony they had, and as there is now new evidence brought forward, he thought it was proper that the report should be recommitted. As one of the committee, he should have no objections to such alterations as might appear proper on further and more complete investigation of the matter.
Mr. STEELE called for the reading of a clause in the memorial of the Secretary of War, which states that the committee had drawn conclusions from ex parte evidence. This being read, Mr. STEELE remarked on the want of candor towards the committee, which had been shown by some of the members in the course of their observations. He then adverted to the above clause respecting ex parte evidence, and observed that, with respect to the Secretary of War, it was not true that the committee had proceeded on ex parte evidence; that officer, said he, was notified of the meetings of the committee; he attended those meetings; he furnished the committee with papers and documents, &c.; and further, he was requested to detain officers in town whose testimony was necessary in the matter, and that he complained of some of those officers being detained by the delays of the committee from the recruiting service. With respect to Mr. Hodgdon the same cannot be said, as he was not then in the country.
Mr. STEELE then concluded by some additional remarks on the indelicacy manifested by some gentlemen in their treatment of the committee, and observed that he did not apply it to himself personally, but as it respected the committee at large, he thought proper to express the contempt which he conceived it merited.
Mr. DAYTON replied to Mr. STEELE. He repeated the substance of his original remarks on the report, and added, that in the course of the discussion he should attempt to show that the deductions made in several parts of the report were false. Mr. D. added, that whatever the gentleman last speaking might say, as one of the committee who signed the report, he was certainly implicated in whatever censure it merited.
The question for a recommitment was then agreed to, 30 to 22. And it was accordingly
Resolved, That the Committee of the whole House, to whom was committed the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the failure of the expedition under Major General St. Clair, be discharged from the consideration thereof; and that the said report, together with the documents relating thereto, including the letter of the Secretary of War, and the memorial of Samuel Hodgdon, be recommitted to Mr. FITZSIMONS, Mr. GILES, Mr. STEELE, Mr. CLARK, and Mr. FINDLAY.
THURSDAY, November 15.
Another member, to wit, THEODORE SEDGWICK, from Massachusetts, appeared, and took his seat in the House.
MONDAY, November 19.
Another member, to wit: JOHN FRANCIS MERCER, from Maryland, appeared, and took his seat in the House.
Protection to American Commerce.
Mr. WILLIAMSON moved that a committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a bill or bills for promoting commerce, by the increase of American seamen. In moving the above, Mr. W. addressed the House as follows:
Measures have already been taken by Congress for increasing the number of our shipping; but no effectual and general measure has been adopted for increasing the number of native American seamen. Every gentleman in my hearing knows that there are always a considerable number of foreigners employed on board American vessels; but none of us could have expected, and some of us may not have heard of the injury and insults to which our commerce has been exposed, from having British seamen on board our ships.
A schooner called the David and George, belonging to Portsmouth, in Virginia, and commanded by Captain Goffigan, lately touched at Sierra Leone, on the coast of Africa; she was navigated by eleven persons. Three of that number who had been on shore, informed Captain Wickham who commanded an armed vessel, that they were British subjects. Captain Wickham went on board the American vessel and claimed the three seamen; he also claimed wages for them. Captain Goffigan refused to deliver the men, and declared with truth that nothing was due them. Captain Wickham took the men by force, and by the same regulation he went into the hold, and took as much of the cargo as he thought fit, under the cover of substitute for wages. Captain Goffigan complained of this violence and robbery to Mr. Clarkson, who is Governor of the Province. The Governor replied, that he should have done the same thing, and that he had orders from his superiors so to act in such cases.
The ship Illustrious President, belonging to Virginia, commanded by Captain Butler, touched some time ago at Madeira, on her passage to the East Indies. The British frigate Hyena, commanded by Captain Hargood, lay at that time in the road. Seven of Captain Butler's sailors being British subjects, Captain Hargood sent to take them by force from on board the American ship, and he would have done so, had not the Governor of the Island, remembering what he owed to the honor of his nation and to every ship under his protection, interrupted his authority.
The ship Fame belonging to Philadelphia, commanded by Walter Sims, on her way to the East Indies, lately touched at Table Bay, at the Cape of Good Hope. Captain Blith, who commanded a ship of twenty guns, then lay in the road. One of Captain Sims' sailors, a native of Scotland, offered his service to Captain Blith, calling himself a British subject. That very man in Philadelphia had taken the oath of allegiance to the United States; but the British claim was best, for Captain Blith's ship was strongest. He took the man, sent an officer on board the American ship, who took the liberty of opening the after hatch, searching the hold and looking out a chest and clothes. Captain Blith justified these acts of violence, by saying, that he had printed instructions to take all who called themselves British subjects.
These are a few out of the numberless cases in which our ships have been robbed of their seamen, and they are samples of the manner in which we shall be constantly treated, while we depend on foreigners to navigate our ships. If these cases had terminated in threats and abusive language, to which our flag is too much accustomed, it might have been questioned whether the nation of the offending party was to blame. When you are told by one officer and another, that he is instructed to distress our trade, we should, if possible, deprive them of the present excuse. Is it not our business to inquire into the cause of this strange conduct? By a vitiated passion for British goods, we are universally clothed in the manufactures of that nation. Our debts increase every year, and we labor to make her rich, while we are becoming poor. We pour our treasures into her lap more than any other nation under the sun. Observe the rewards! I say nothing about her measures on our Western Frontier; but our trading ships are boarded and plundered at discretion by her ships of war; and yet, Great Britain, whose commerce we cherish, is the only nation that treats us in this manner. Perhaps it is conjectured that Americans are of that species of animals whose favor is increased by rough treatment. Be this as it may, it is our duty to consider of the safest and surest mode of extending our commerce. After we have been told that an American vessel having sailors on board, who chance to have been born in the British dominion, is subject to be deprived of her hands, robbed of her property, and turned adrift without help, it can hardly be necessary to adduce other arguments in favor of native American seamen; but other strong and conclusive arguments in favor of the measure present themselves. The merchants' property in critical situations, or in distant or obscure parts of the world, is always most safe when a ship is navigated by men who uniformly strive to return to their native home, and whose hopes and happiness centre in that country to which their ship belongs. The crew of a French brig some weeks ago, murdered their captain and mate on our coast; that misfortune, in all probability, would not have happened, if the seamen had been natives of France. Two of them only were of that kingdom. Is it necessary to add, that a powerful body of seamen, at some future day, may save us from the vast expense and danger of a standing army? Upon this single argument of native seamen we might rest the question. It needs neither support nor illustration. I shall, therefore, presume, that it is our duty as soon as possible, to provide for the daily operations of pride or injustice, by furnishing the merchant with seamen, of whom he cannot be robbed, except by open declaration of war--with seamen in whom he can trust--with men, who, actuated by those passions which are inseparable from the human breast, the pride of nation and the love of country, may serve him in every part of the world,--to furnish the nation with a safe and strong bulwark against foreign tyranny and invasion.
I shall now take the liberty of moving that committees may be appointed to bring in bills for the purposes mentioned.
Mr. WILLIAMSON, Mr. LAURANCE, Mr. GOODHUE, Mr. BENJAMIN BOURNE, and Mr. BARNWELL, were appointed to prepare and bring in the same.
THURSDAY, November 22.
Another member, to wit, JOHN MILLEDGE, returned to serve in this House for the State of Georgia in the room of ANTHONY WAYNE, whose seat was declared vacant, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.
WEDNESDAY, November 28.
Warner Mifflin's Petition.
Mr. STEELE called the attention of the House to the memorial and representation of Warner Mifflin on the subject of Negro slavery. Mr. S. said that after what had passed at New York on this subject, he had hoped the House would have heard no more of it; but, to his surprise, he found the subject was started anew, and had been introduced by a fanatic, who, not content with keeping his own conscience, undertook to become the keeper of the consciences of other men, and in a manner which he deemed not very decent, had intruded his opinions into this House. Had an application been made to him to present such a petition, he thought he should have avoided a compliance with it. Gentlemen in the Northern States do not realize the mischievous consequences which have already resulted from measures of this kind, and if a stop were not put to such proceedings, the Southern States would be compelled to apply to the General Government for their interference. He concluded, by moving "that the paper purporting to be a petition from Warner Mifflin, be returned to him by the Clerk of the House; and that the entry of said petition be expunged from the Journal."
Mr. AMES rose to explain his motives in presenting the petition. He said it was his opinion, which he had expressed to the House long ago, that this Government could not, with propriety, take any steps in the matter referred to in this petition; but, on the general principle that every citizen has a right to petition the Legislature, and to apply to any member to present his request to the House, he had handed it in. The petitioner is a citizen of Delaware; and had the member from that State been in the House, he should not have thought himself obliged to have introduced it; but that gentleman being absent, the petitioner had a right to apply to a member from any other State. He had no idea of supporting the prayer of the petition, his mind having been long made up on the subject. He considered it as totally inexpedient to interfere with the subject, and had uniformly opposed the applications made at a former session of Congress.
Mr. LIVERMORE did not consider the motion in order, the subject not being properly before the House; nor did he believe there was any disposition to bring it forward.
Mr. W. SMITH said he had seconded the motion, with a view of putting it out of the power of any member to call it up when persons might be absent who would find it their duty to oppose it. Mr. S. said he admitted, in its full extent, the right of each citizen to petition for a redress of grievances, and the duty of the House to consider such petitions; but the paper in question is a mere rant and rhapsody of a meddling fanatic, interlarded with texts of Scripture, and concluded with no specific prayer. He observed it was the general practice of Legislative bodies for members presenting petitions to read them, in order to make known their objects, and to have them entered on the journal. In this particular instance the practice might be attended with danger. Citizens of the Southern States learning that papers of this kind meet with countenance here would be alarmed. The gentleman who presented this paper had not, on this occasion, shown his usual regard to Southern interests. Had he stated its dangerous object, the House would undoubtedly have refused its reception. After the proceedings at New York, when a similar application was made, his constituents had a right to expect that the subject would never be stirred again. He would assure the House, that while he continued a member of it, he should never fail to express his abhorrence against all such applications, as they could have none but a mischievous tendency. So far from being calculated to meliorate the condition of the race who were the object of them, they had a tendency to alienate their affections from their masters, and by exciting in them a spirit of restlessness, to render greater severity towards them necessary. He therefore earnestly called on the House to agree to the motion, and thereby convince this enthusiast, and others, that they can never meet countenance in the Legislature of the Union.
The part of the motion directing the petition to be returned by the Clerk was agreed to. The remainder was withdrawn by Mr. STEELE, the mover.
THURSDAY, December 13.
ANDREW GREGG, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took his seat in the House.
TUESDAY, December 18.
A memorial of the officers, now residing in the State of New York, of the late American Army, in behalf of themselves and their brethren, the soldiers of the said Army, was presented to the House and read, praying that the depreciation which accrued on the certificates of debt granted them in reward for their military services during the late war, may be made good to them, or such other relief afforded them as the present circumstances of the United States will admit. Also, a memorial of the Pennsylvania line of the late Army, to the same effect.
Ordered, That the said memorials do lie on the table.
THURSDAY, December 27.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, accompanying a statement of the present organization of the troops; also, Returns of the commissioned officers, non-commissioned officers, and privates, in the service of the United States; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.
FRIDAY, December 28.
A memorial of the officers and soldiers of the late New Hampshire line of the Continental Army was presented to the House and read, praying that the depreciation which accrued on the certificates of debt granted them in reward for their military services during the late war may be made good to them, or such other relief afforded them as the present circumstances of the United States will admit; which was laid on the table.
Reduction of the Army.
Mr. STEELE called up his resolution laid on the table some days ago, as follows:
"Resolved, That a committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a bill to reduce the military establishment of the United States to ---- regiments or corps, consisting each of ---- non-commissioned officers, privates and musicians, with such proportion of commissioned officers as the PRESIDENT may think proper to continue in service; and to repeal so much of an act, passed the fifth of March, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-two, entitled 'An act for making farther and more effectual provision for the protection of the frontiers of the United States,' as may contravene this intention.'"
Mr. STEELE, in proposing the above resolution, said, the situation of the frontiers, and the inefficiency of the measures adopted through the medium of the War Department, to relieve them; the extreme burdens which those measures were heaping on the people, and the probability of their continuance, afforded ample scope for inquiry; and to sit silent on such an occasion, he thought, would be to partake of and support the errors from which those misfortunes may have arisen. The citizens of the United States, he said, were of a peaceable and patient disposition, and they have with cheerfulness acquiesced in the measures of the National Legislature; but they were not become so tame as to submit to immense and fruitless expenses, and the disgrace of their military character, to answer any vain projects of folly and ambition, without a prospect of guaranteeing a peace. Is it not evident, said he, that plans have been persevered in without regard to common sense, by an unnecessary increase of our army, until the indignation of the whole continent has been roused up against it?
To elucidate this position, Mr. S. recited the expenses, charges, and increase of the War Department from its first establishment under the present Government, to its present enormous demands, which for the year 1793, are no less, agreeably to the estimate furnished by the Secretary of the Treasury, than $1,171,719;[45] more than double the sum necessary for the support of all the other branches of the National Government. The better to illustrate this subject of the Indian war, he entered into comparative statements of the years 1790, '91, '92, and '93; and, animadverting on the different items of calculation, he asserted, in strong terms, that they exceeded every thing that the history of the Indian wars afforded for twenty years back; he wished any gentleman to enter into an investigation and comparison of the alarming increase of the expenses of the department, and to take a retrospect of the subject for twenty years back; and he was certain neither the Secretary of War nor any other person could account rationally for the occasion of such an establishment. There was no precedent to be found in any of the States; not one of them has a War Department; neither was it contemplated in the Constitution of the United States. Yet it has, in the short space of three or four years, been imposing on the country burdens which the people have at length expressed their abhorrence of; it has been increased from $137,000 in 1789, to the extravagant demand now required, of $1,171,719 and $50,000 contingencies for the support of 1793. This is so alarming an increase, that it calls loudly for reformation, or the entire abolition of the department, and that another system shall be adopted for the protection of the frontiers. Armies of regulars will never afford protection; they have never answered any good purpose against the Indians from the time of Braddock's defeat down to that of Major General St. Clair, although this last-mentioned unfortunate expedition cost the United States an immense sum of money, and the lives of a great number of valuable officers and citizens. History and the experience of ages have proved this fact, that unwieldy armies will never be able to fight the savages in the wilderness; indeed, the Secretary of War confesses the fact in one of his reports, which Mr. S. read, wherein the Secretary accounts for the ill success of the plans, by observing, "that it was owing to the extreme activity of the enemy and our ignorance of the wilderness through which our troops had to march." But the Secretary might have also added, our entire ignorance of the mode of carrying on the war.
Here Mr. S. took occasion to observe, that this alarmingly expensive and useless department had crept upon the country entirely from our fondness for taking up money on loans; for had it not been that the money was thus obtained with a sort of facility that was not directly felt by the people, they never would have consented to be directly taxed to support the parade of so unnecessary an establishment. This is my reason for being an enemy to loans; they deceive citizens, and lull them for a time, in order to levy double contributions afterwards.
But it may be demanded, how are the frontiers to be protected, if the army was disbanded? In reply to this Mr. S. said he wished that the former two regiments might be retained to garrison the forts, and that a militia near the scene of action should be raised, who would be able to make five expeditions against the savages in a year, if necessary, instead of one solitary fruitless attempt, which, upon an average, is as much as a regular army can do; and sometimes not so much, for it does not appear that any expedition took place during the last twelve months: moreover, it is not so easy for the Indians to discover the plans and approaches of militia, as they do the slow motions of an unwieldy army, dragging their heavy artillery through the woods. The fact is, that the Indians have the best intelligence and know every motion of the army, and they can even calculate the time and place to meet them, and the numbers of their tribes that will be necessary to receive such a force; they will always be prepared when a regular army are to march against them. But if the business be left to a militia of the frontier inhabitants, who know the country, and have their property at stake, it would not cost the Government one-fourth part of the expense to give a complete protection, and to repel all the depredations of the savages, if that be our intention. If it be the protection and happiness of our brethren on the frontiers--if we are serious to check the progress of expense, the motion which I have brought forward will be the most effectual means, and to establish a proper Militia System. On this motion, therefore, will depend the question, whether we are to continue a fruitless warfare in the present mode for seven or ten years, or shall we adopt a better system, which will not cost one-fourth of the expense, and which would completely check the Indians; nay, it would entirely exterminate them, if that was thought to be necessary.
In order to bring the matter to a point, Mr. S. suggested, that it would be proper to disband all the troops except the two former regiments of two thousand one hundred and twenty-eight men, which would be more than sufficient to garrison all the fourteen posts on the frontier. These, with a militia, under proper regulations, and the officers appointed by the PRESIDENT, would be found a more certain protection. The garrisons are at Fayette, Hamilton, Steuben, Knox, Tammany, Telfair, Harmar, Franklin, Jefferson, St. Clair, Marietta, Massachusetts, Matthews, and Knoxville. Most of these are commanded by captains, except two that are commanded by majors: now, reducing the establishment to two thousand one hundred and eighteen non-commissioned and privates, and average them amongst the garrisons, it will give one hundred and fifty-two men for each; the sum saved by this reduction would be six hundred and twenty-four thousand six hundred and seven dollars--the difference between the appropriations for 1792 and those required for 1793.
With regard to the expense that would be incurred from militia expeditions, none of them would cost above thirty thousand dollars; and four or five of those, if made in a year, would have ten times the success and effect that could be expected from the present system. Had the militia plan been adopted, we should not at this day hear such murmurs from our constituents, nor would the people be saddled with heavy taxes and imposts; but, on the contrary, the money that has been actually wasted would have sunk a considerable part of our National Debt. But by the system of warfare lately adopted of dragging heavy cannon and camps into a wilderness, of which we have confessed our ignorance, if it be allowed any longer, our Treasury will be exhausted, and the public revenues which the Secretary of the Treasury reported as affording a prospect of income beyond the permanent wants of Government, will not all together be sufficient for our War Establishment; we must fly to loans, and pursue a system of ruin and distress to the country. Under these impressions, said Mr. S., I have introduced the proposition now before the House; and I entreat gentlemen to think seriously of it, for thereon, in a high degree, will depend the real protection of our frontier, the safety of our garrisons, and the ultimate ease, happiness, and tranquillity of the continent.
Mr. HARTLEY, although he did not wish to advocate the continuance of a standing army, yet he was averse to disbanding the troops at present, while it is known that a negotiation for a peace is going forward, and may not perhaps be brought to a decision before the spring. It is a well-known maxim in politics, that a peace can always be easiest obtained by a nation which is prepared for war. He noticed the great prudence and economy of the PRESIDENT in forming the army into a legion; and he differed in opinion with Mr. STEELE respecting the insufficiency of regular troops. No instance could be quoted where regulars had engaged the Indians without beating them.
Mr. PARKER said he had always abhorred the idea of keeping up standing armies in this country; and he believed he could from experience demonstrate that it was an unwise measure at the commencement of the present Government; for it answered no better purpose than throwing out a hint to the British and Spanish Governments, on our Northern and Southern frontiers, to increase their forces, and even to administer countenance and support to the Indians, which they never would have thought of doing, but for our vain attempt at military parade. He mentioned a letter which had been written by Lord Dorchester to the Indians, informing them "that Prince Edward had arrived with a number of chosen warriors to protect them," meaning against the United States.
Thus, said Mr. P., we have been warring with our finances for the last three years, by keeping up an army in imitation of European plans, which are formed in countries altogether unanalogous to America in every possible view. The consequences have been unsuccessful, and produced military disgraces, by sending into the field a collection of beings, collected from stews and brothels and from the most unprincipled of their species, to fight against Indians well supported on both sides, and fighting, as they do, for their property, their hunting ground, their wives, and children, instead of calling forth the militia, the natural strength of the country. But the present plan has involved us in such difficulties that we are not now able to provide for the payment of our debts, without the medium of loans; nay, we are now called on for a small sum of two hundred thousand dollars at the bank, which would have been easily paid out of the surplus in the Treasury, were it not that our finances have been exhausted by those ill-judged expeditions under General Harmer and General St. Clair. He mentioned the naked, starved appearance of the men who were sent out--with shoes that would not last three days, clothes that did not half cover their miserable bodies from the inclemency of the weather, and food sometimes not fit for dogs. He could mention the particulars, if required, of some other very abominable abuses, but refrained from it at present. He concluded by expressing the same opinion of militia that Mr. S. had done; and, with regard to the starved soldiery who had appeared in the woods, they were despised so much by the Indians, that they called them Coatmen, and shot them down like wild turkeys.
Mr. FITZSIMONS was apprehensive that it would be a dangerous experiment, so suddenly to alter the system of defence already adopted. He remarked, that when Mr. STEELE had stated the War Department to have cost the United States three million five hundred and forty thousand dollars, he had committed a great mistake, for there was one million one hundred and seventy-one thousand dollars of that sum not yet granted. [Mr. STEELE explained, that he had gone by the estimates for the appropriations proposed, &c.] Mr. FITZSIMONS did not wish to advocate a standing army; and if any better mode of defence for the frontiers could be digested, he would be amongst the foremost who would agree to it.
Mr. WHITE could not entirely approve of the motion for striking out, unless a proper substitute for defence was fairly brought forward.
Mr. WILLIAMSON said, it was not disbanding an army of men, but the disbanding an army of paper, that he conceived to be the object of the motion, and it should have his support. He mentioned an affair between ninety militia and two hundred and forty Indians, wherein the militia received them much better than any of the regulars could boast of having done!
Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) reverted to a clause in the law which empowers the PRESIDENT either to raise those three additional regiments, or to forbear to raise them, or discharge them, &c., provided he thought it consistent with the safety of the country. From this Mr. S. said it was evident there was a sort of indelicacy in the motion, as it implies a doubt that the PRESIDENT might fail in this instance, or vary from his usual line of prudence.
Mr. DAYTON said, he would vote for referring the motion to a Committee of the Whole, although he disapproved of it. He should not have risen had he not heard from the two North Carolina members the strangest perversion of argument and the most extraordinary reasoning. The gentleman who has brought forward the motion, said Mr. D., has decried every idea of energy and efficacy in regular disciplined troops considering them not only inefficient, but contemptible, when employed against Indians; and, to confirm this assertion, he has instanced the expedition under General St. Clair, when it is well known that there were not, in fact, two companies of regular disciplined infantry among them. The other gentleman (Mr. WILLIAMSON) has extravagantly commended the back-country militia, and extolled them for their efficiency and success in Indian warfare; and instances the affair of a rencontre between Major Adair, with ninety militia, against two hundred and forty Indians. In reply to this, Mr. D. felt himself compelled to remark, that that affair did not appear so successful in his mind; for those very militia were unquestionably surprised and beaten, inasmuch as they were driven into a corner, until the Indians captured all their horses and other property in their camp; and what is still more disgraceful, one half of the Major's party deserted him at the commencement of the action, and secured themselves within their garrison.
Whilst he was up, Mr. D. would further observe on the extraordinary speech of the mover of the question, that it was such as no person could have ever expected to hear within the walls of that House. It seemed to be calculated to prejudice the minds of the people against the whole Administration; and it appeared still the more extraordinary that such a speech should come from a gentleman who so lately expressed the nicest delicacy in matters of order and decency; for, in this instance, he has committed the greatest breach of decorum and propriety, by a direct censure of the Secretary of War, the PRESIDENT, and both Houses of the Legislature. [Here several members called Mr. DAYTON to order.] He proceeded, however, and appealed to the House, whether he had not drawn a just picture of the expressions of the gentleman from North Carolina. The very calculations which he has so laboriously produced have been questioned by other members. In regard to the surprise expressed by the gentleman at the increase of the War Department from 1791 to '92 and '93, it was not so strange that five thousand men would require greater supplies than two thousand. Yet the gentleman is surprised at the increase of expense, and seems to imply that abuses have been committed; but if an increase of expense for protecting the frontiers has accrued, the censure ought to fall on the Legislature for directing it by their laws, and not upon the Executive, who are merely the instruments for carrying them into effect.
Upon the whole, Mr. D., however he might himself be in favor of a reduction of the army, if it stood simply on its own merits, yet, as it now struck him, it being connected with some recent circumstances, he would therefore oppose it as tending only to embarrass the Executive in their attempts towards a pacification. Moreover, he said he knew the temper of Indians so well, by having lived amongst them, that there was not a nation on earth more extravagant in their demands, when they saw the force against them was lessening. So that what is intended by the motion for reduction at present, as economical, may turn out to be, in the end, the most expensive of any.
Mr. WADSWORTH was also against the motion; and Mr. AMES closed the debate by a few observations on the necessity of committing to a Committee of the Whole, as there would be no other way of answering the industrious calculations of the mover.
The question on committal was carried, and made the order of the day for next Wednesday.
WEDNESDAY, January 2.
Military Establishment.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the motion of the 28th ultimo, for reducing the Military Establishment of the United States.
Mr. WADSWORTH rose and observed, that he had pledged himself to the House last Friday to show that the calculations of the gentleman from North Carolina were not true; and, if true, that the inferences drawn from them were not correct. There was a material difference (he said) between the appropriations quoted by the gentleman and those which he would now read to the House. Here he read a statement which he had prepared, from which it would appear that Mr. STEELE had overrated the contingencies, hospitals, quartermasters, forage, cavalry, ordnance, pay, and subsistence, each of them.
The total difference between Mr. STEELE's and Mr. WADSWORTH's calculations, from this representation, was $27,080 in the year 1790.
In like manner, Mr. W. read his calculations for 1791. On comparing which with those of Mr. STEELE, he said there was a difference in the total of $252,312; and in the total of 1792, he showed a difference of $567,530. He also particularly objected to Mr. STEELE's statements of the ordnance expense for 1793, which had been called $23,000; but that sum, although it comes under the head of ordnance in the estimate, is not altogether appropriated for the purchase of cannon; the whole amount of the expense of cannon, he said, had been very trifling--about $700 or $800. Having proceeded thus far in attempting to controvert the calculations of the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. W. said, it would indeed have been an alarming thing to the United States, had they been founded in reality. But the gentleman had not confined himself to misstatements--he had gone further; for he had "lamented the necessity of quoting even truths from that office"--the War Office. Here Mr. W. stated that the quotation which Mr. STEELE had made from a report of the Secretary of War had not been correctly quoted. After Mr. W. had thus represented Mr. STEELE's calculations as erroneous, and his quotations as misstated, he said that the House ought to beware of not being led astray by them. He next observed, that the gentleman had laid a great deal of blame of the present hostilities between the United States and the Indians, and the expense attending them, to the War Department. But Mr. W. conceived that there were other causes to be assigned for the Indian war. There had never been a day, from the first settlement of America to the present moment, without our being at war with the Indians, in one place or another. The history of the country, the resolves of the old Congress, every book published by Congress, show this to have been the case. [Here he read some quotations from the resolves of 1784, to show the appropriations for defraying the expenses of Indian wars.] He wished the House to take a retrospect of the subject, from the beginning of those troubles down to the late application for assistance from the National Government by the Governor of Georgia. Although they have three thousand men on the frontier of that State, yet it is not found sufficient, and the Indians have driven them in. Indeed, there has been a time when the town of Savannah has been obliged to keep a guard.
It was not his intention to introduce commendations of the officer at the head of the War Department, but he thought it proper to observe, that he is not to be blamed on account of the expenses referred to. He is no more than an instrument acting under the Supreme Executive. It is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES who has found it necessary and proper to recommend the establishment of a military force. It is, therefore, not the Secretary's, it is the PRESIDENT's war; and to assert that the Secretary has had any undue influence with the Legislature, would be altogether false; for, on the contrary, his reports have been treated with disrespect in this House. Was not his report at New York ridiculed, and called "preaching," &c., because it was in favor of peace, and spoke with great humanity respecting the hardships often inflicted by the whites on the Indians? Indeed, the Secretary of War has been uniform in his endeavors to bring about a durable peace. This, however desirable an object, has been found hitherto impracticable, and the Indians have lately carried their depredations to so great a length that the PRESIDENT has judged it necessary to repel them by force. They have murdered in cold blood our ambassadors of peace, whilst holding a flag of truce in one hand and reaching the other out in friendship to the Indians. Perhaps they may have been excited to this degree of barbarity by many causes. It is hard to determine which are the greatest aggressors--the settlers on the frontiers or the Indians. The murder of the Moravian Indians, the proclamation of Congress against our own people, all show that the Indians have ground for complaint.
Here Mr. W. recapitulated the affairs of the banditti at Fort St. Vincennes; the representations of Judge Innis, of Kentucky, from 1783 to 1790, respecting the people there who could not be restrained from the commission of crimes against the peace of the country. From these causes and the common fatality of the times, our attempts towards peace have proved abortive, and the war has been prolonged, but the Secretary is entirely innocent of promoting it.
In regard to the other arguments of the gentleman (Mr. STEELE) respecting the militia, that they would afford either a cheaper or better defence for the frontiers, he had his doubts.
Mr. W. now went over the whole history of the frontier wars; a line of posts was once established and garrisoned by militia, yet they could not prevent the Indians from coming within sixty miles of Winchester, and murdering, scalping and plundering the women and children. After the peace of 1762, the Indians drove in the militia, and advanced as far as Cumberland and Carlisle, in the State of Pennsylvania.
But Colonel Boquet, with the remains of two regiments of regular troops, who had just before arrived from the West Indies, marched against the savages, and hired pack-horses to carry some of his sick men. With these regulars, Colonel Boquet fought them and drove them with the bayonet from one end of the country to the other. The battle began at one o'clock the first day and lasted until night, and was renewed the next morning with superior force by the Indians; yet they were entirely discomfited. This news went to Fort Pitt and Virginia, and revived the spirits of the country. Virginia raised more troops--and Colonel Boquet dictated a peace to the savages.
These instances furnished sufficient arguments to show the superiority of regular troops over militia. But he could mention many others, viz: General Hartman, with eight hundred chosen men, giving a total defeat to the Indians; Colonel Willet's attack and defeat of them; and General Sullivan's affair in South Carolina.
As to the defeat of Harmer and St. Clair, their men ought not to be reckoned regular troops. They were raw recruits, undisciplined, &c. But even they stood better than the militia; for the militia ran away, and those who remained to fight the savages fell, to their honor be it spoken, whilst the militia, who were the advanced guard, ran and threw away their guns, nay, their coats.
Upon the whole, the balance of argument, Mr. W. thought, must appear in favor of regular troops.
He further took occasion to animadvert on what Mr. WILLIAMSON had said, when that gentleman expressed himself so strongly in favor of the militia under Major Adair. That officer, Mr. W. observed, had been a Continental officer, and from his own words, it appeared that he had no very great opinion of the militia, for they had fled to the garrison; and the Indians obtained their ends, notwithstanding the reception given by Major Adair. Theirs was the triumph, and when they retired, it seems to have been not so much a matter of necessity, as a thing of choice, on their part. The loss of horses, one hundred, perhaps, and the expense of this affair, amounted to a much greater sum than any regular troops would have cost. The party under Major Adair, supposing it to consist of a hundred men, cost one hundred dollars a day, reckoning the attendant circumstances--and considering it, as Mr. W. did, a complete defeat--for there are no circumstances to prove that it was otherwise--the militia having deserted him and left the few regulars he had exposed to the whole of the danger.
Mr. W. did not stop here in his details of military disgraces--he recounted many other cases. He mentioned the Grant's expedition against the Cherokees, &c. And still he drew a balance against the successes of the militia; for, he said, they had constantly been defeated, and the country left exposed to the depredations of the enemy.
Much has been said, observed Mr. W., of Clark and Sevier's successes. They, indeed, afford an exception to the cases above mentioned; but how far were they successful? The immense expense of men and money, and the interruption given to the agriculture of the country by calling away from their business so many industrious citizens, is a thing beyond the power of calculation; for my part, said he, I do not know figures enough to count it up. For the truth of this position, and for the enormous waste and expense incurred by militia, he appealed to one of the members (Col. PARKER) on the other side of the House, who had experience in the matter, whether it was not absolutely impossible either to bring militia under a proper discipline, or prevent their enormous waste. A whole brigade of regular troops would not cost so much as one regiment of militia to a country. The militia of Kentucky have cost more blood and wealth than all the American war; when the circumstances are considered of calling out men from the tillage of the field, &c. It is enormous the number of lives, and the aggregate loss is countless. The causes of these things are, want of order and discipline, &c. And those causes have produced a universal reprobation of the war establishment; but all those who condemn are not well acquainted with those causes; they judge from hearing only one-half of the truth in our newspapers. It is supposed a peace can be easily effected, but I know of no peace that has not been effected by force; for, although promises have been made and peace often treated for with the Indians, yet they have as constantly broken those promises. This is a good reason for keeping up the present force of the United States. We are now able to meet the Indians and demand a safe peace. But the gentleman from North Carolina calls our establishment a mere military parade, which, it is said by another gentleman, (Mr. PARKER,) will only tend to rouse the Spaniards and the British, &c.
He went on quoting the conduct of the Indians and their threatening manner, when they told you, "go to your own side of the Ohio," &c. What language do they now hold out? But I am not at liberty, said Mr. W., to mention it, as it was confidentially communicated to this House, and read with our doors shut. However, it is well known to all the members present the insolence of that language. For my part, I have little hopes of a peace from any promises of the Indians; and although a negotiation is said to be upon the carpet, I can never depend upon the promises of savages who have so often broken them.
In speaking of the recruits that have been lately raised for the regular army, Mr. W. opposed his opinion to that of Mr. PARKER, who mentioned them in such contemptible terms as having been collected from the stews and brothels of the cities, &c. For his part, Mr. W. had often seen them, and he believed they were equal, if not superior in spirit and appearance, to most of the soldiery during the British war, and better than the soldiery were at the close of the war, with some exceptions, such as respects the men who cost £300 each. Before he could quit the subject, he begged leave to mention another instance of the efficacy of regular troops; it was the affair of General Wayne's surprise, when the light-horse dismounted, and cut the militia to pieces, and the infantry drove them off at the point of the bayonet.
He ridiculed the idea of calling out a militia upon every emergency. Where are they to be formed? In Pennsylvania it would be attended with a tenfold loss, if they must quit their daily labor. He would admit that the character of the Kentucky militia had been brave and intrepid; but there was still occasion for a new war, and no ultimate protection afforded to the frontier.
The Governor of North Carolina had complained of a friendly Indian being murdered, &c. On the whole, he thought it improper to take militia to fight Indian warriors. He admitted that some abuses might have been practised in the regular army, but they were as little, if not less, than in any other army he could remember.
He insisted that the scheme of the Department of War was not a scheme of the Secretary, but a scheme of the United States from the PRESIDENT down to the members of the Legislature, and the meanest of their constituents. He took a retrospect of the great skill of the PRESIDENT after Braddock's defeat. The PRESIDENT must be the best judge of the disposition of Indians, and the best way of treating with them; he approves the scheme of the present war, and shall we imprudently attempt to change his plan, by sending out a few men to be knocked on the head by the Indians, as those coat men were? so called by the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. PARKER,) but instead of coat men, he, Mr. W. thought they might also have been called petty-coat men, &c. He finished his observations by again remarking, that the calculations of the gentleman (Mr. STEELE) who had introduced the motion for reducing the present war establishments were founded in error and ought not to have any weight with the House.
Mr. STEELE.--When the House have deliberated upon the merits of the gentleman's arguments, and the truth of my statements; and when they have decided the question, I will submit to their decision; but, in the mean time, I insist that my calculations are founded on the reports of the Secretary and the public printed documents on the table, of the appropriations and laws, &c. I wish the gentleman (Mr. WADSWORTH) had told us where he has found those papers, from which he attempts to controvert such authentic documents as I have quoted. I wish he had made the House understand them; for my part they appear unintelligible.
Mr. WADSWORTH said it was from the laws.
Mr. STEELE explained some things in his former statements; and in reply to some suggestions that might be thrown out with respect to his indelicate mode of attacking the Secretary of War, or the PRESIDENT, he defied any member to show that he had acted beyond the line of his duty, or that he had ever shown any disrespect towards the PRESIDENT. On the contrary, he was of opinion that that gentleman's character would for ever be secured against all the possible attacks of ingratitude or malice, &c. He also used some other very handsome expressions on this occasion. But whilst he was ready to declare these things, and to prove that he had no personal intentions of injuring the Secretary of War, yet, he would not suffer himself to be deprived of his privilege, whilst he had the honor of a seat in that House; and, in the present instance, he thought it his duty to hold up his opposition against the rapid increase of expenses in all the Departments of Government, which he said were grown to an enormous burden upon the people, and unwarranted by the constitution; that they therefore ought to be immediately checked. He hoped, for the future, gentlemen would confine their arguments to measures, and not apply them to persons. He sat down, for the present, with this proviso: that he would reserve to himself the right of answering to what might be advanced against his proposition, which he could prove to be salutary; and that the present system is fundamentally wrong.
Mr. HARTLEY was against adopting the motion under the present circumstances of the country, and he entered into a particular investigation of the merits of the question. When the last law for the more effectual protection of the frontiers passed, the subject now under consideration was very fully and ably discussed, and the gentlemen who were averse to the augmentation, had several alterations made to satisfy them.
Instead of the PRESIDENT's being obliged to raise the whole of the three regiments, he was to exercise his discretion either to make the augmentation complete, or raise a part, and he had authority to disband them after being raised.
The 12th section of that law is thus expressed: "It shall be lawful for the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to forbear to raise, or to disband after they shall be raised, the whole or any part of the said three additional regiments, in case events shall in his judgment render his so doing consistent with the public safety."
We should therefore consider whether circumstances have so materially changed since that time as to render it proper that the Legislature should interfere, repeal the powers given to the PRESIDENT, and discharge the three regiments. This necessarily leads us first to view the situation of our finances, and the state of the frontiers at and immediately before the time of passing the law. The extent of our revenue was not as well known then as at present, and every good man deprecated the misfortune which obliged him to increase the taxes. The war was a disagreeable one, but necessary, if peace could not otherwise be obtained. The Legislature considered the expense, and were of opinion that we had means and abilities to defray the same. Many murders and ravages had been committed by the savages on the frontiers. One army had suffered in the year 1790, and nearly a whole army cut off on the 4th of November, 1791. And we had every reason to suppose that the Indians would act in great force against us. Our finances are still respectable. It is true, I should be happy if we could apply the money towards discharging the national debt already contracted, but the unfortunate situation of our frontiers prevent it. War, though an evil, may (from the present disposition of the world) be sometimes necessary, when nations are unreasonable and justice cannot be otherwise obtained. Hostilities have lately been committed on our troops commanded by Major Adair, and several of the Southern tribes show themselves inimical, and we have no absolute assurances that we shall have peace in the spring. The agreement by some tribes to a suspension of hostilities, was only convenient to them as it protected their families for the winter.
The great object of the additional armament was to obtain peace: this is not yet effected. May we promise ourselves more success in negotiation by laying down our arms, or by retaining them? History is in favor of the latter. Indeed, I hold it as a maxim, that the nation which is prepared for war can most easily obtain peace. For my own part, I can discover no existing causes for altering the system established by the act to which I have before referred. The expense has been made a very serious objection. It ought to have weight; but where measures have been proper, America has not regarded it. She has freely expended her treasure to support her rights. We are bound in justice and honor to protect our fellow-citizens on the frontiers; we demand from them an excise. They require from the General Government protection. I am for making peace with all the Indians upon reasonable terms; but any country which has been fairly purchased from the Indians, they should not be permitted to repossess or hold by conquest. If an offensive war be necessary says the gentleman from North Carolina, regular troops are not the most proper to carry it on. They are more expensive, and unfit to meet the savages of the wilderness. As to the expense, I have partly answered before. But if the gentleman is to have five expeditions in one year, I believe he would find that his calculations are not correct: a misfortune to either detachments or party would bear very hard upon the district they came from; the partial loss of regulars would not be equally felt, very few of them having families.
I have a high opinion of the backwoods riflemen, but I am confident that we cannot certainly rely upon their turning out as often as they might be wanted; we could not rely on such uncertainty; and yet this is offered as a favorite project. If you cannot rely upon them, you may say that the ordinary militia can be drafted. You would find them unfit for such a service; they would in general be composed of substitutes, inexperienced and undisciplined, and it would be unfair to take them all from the frontiers, and some of the States, or at least one, have no militia laws. I am for retaining the regular troops.
The PRESIDENT has practised economy in organizing the troops voted for, and I am told they have made considerable progress in discipline; they are formed into legionary corps, composed of horse, riflemen, light-infantry, and battalion-men. The three former will be fit for active service in the field, the latter for the common duties in the camp or garrison. I will allow volunteers and militia their full credit; but I do not think the regular troops merit the disparagement attempted. Volunteer corps have not been free from misfortunes. Colonel Crawford, at the head of five hundred volunteers from Virginia and Pennsylvania, was defeated in the Western country, and he was burnt at the stake. General Braddock, it is said, was obstinate, and his European troops were undisciplined for such a service. The army under General St. Clair was lost, because the men were undisciplined and unfitted for that service. I can mention several instances where regular troops have successfully penetrated the Indian country, among warlike tribes, with success: Colonel Montgomery, into the Cherokees; Colonel Armstrong to the Kittaning; Colonel Boquet's campaign of 1763, and 1764. Three detachments of the American army, in the year 1778, (one under the command of General Broadhead, one under Lieutenant Colonel Butler, and the last commanded by your humble servant,) penetrated the country possessed by the Six Nations. Neither of the detachments was large, and the last had to contend against superior numbers. In General Sullivan's campaign, the year following, his vanguard beat an equal, if not a superior number of Indians. I might mention the Roman legions; they almost constantly were successful against those they called Barbarians, until their enemies adopted the Roman discipline. I have a high opinion of the personal bravery and prowess of an Indian, but I do deny that they can act to the best advantage in large bodies. They have not an experience of that kind; disciplined troops would have the advantage. I reprobate the idea of a standing army, which might endanger the liberty of this country; but I consider the troops contemplated in the act of Congress to be absolutely necessary, until peace shall be obtained, and therefore shall vote against a reduction. Every step has been taken, and I dare say will be taken, by the PRESIDENT, to procure a peace without bloodshed. Our messengers of peace have, in some places, been murdered, and yet he has sent messengers to others.
Mr. CLARK.--One would suppose from the style of the debate, that we were going to abandon the frontiers, the safety of the country, &c., and to disband the whole of the army: for, the arguments of those gentlemen who are opposed to the motion seem to be calculated to mislead the House in that way, and to prove that the question under consideration is for reducing the whole of the troops now existing. But this is so far from being the true state of the matter, that it is not even contemplated to disband a single man of them; it only goes to the prevention of raising any more troops, which perhaps would be the safest policy under the present circumstances and temper of the United States. There are about three thousand three hundred effective men already raised, who are sufficient to garrison the forts on the frontier, agreeably to the gentleman's statement who introduced the motion; and, indeed, it seems as if they were fully competent, if we believe the report that the whole of the Indian force, at the time of meeting General St. Clair, and when they exerted themselves to the utmost, was but one thousand two hundred warriors.
Mr. C. made some further remarks on the sentiments which had been expressed by the gentleman last up; and, in speaking of the discretionary powers vested in the PRESIDENT, he was of opinion that the situation of the Chief Magistrate in this respect was extremely delicate: for, supposing he might be inclined to stop the recruiting service, and reduce the war establishment; and supposing the frontiers to be again harassed, it might be charged to him for not having kept up the legal complement of men. Under this impression, Mr. C. wished that some way could be adopted of conveying to the PRESIDENT the sentiments of the Legislature on this subject, without the tedious form of a law.
Mr. PARKER.--The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. HARTLEY) has been reading a section of the law, to inform us of the discretionary powers vested in the PRESIDENT, which we have heard from other members before he rose, and which we all knew as well as himself. I am sorry to hear gentlemen, when they have no other resource of argument left, so often resorting to the name of the PRESIDENT, to carry their measures; and yet, in the present instance, I much doubt whether those sentiments are avowed by the PRESIDENT, which have been laid to his charge in the course of this debate: however, if they were really so, this is not a sufficient reason to silence me, or to prevent me from delivering my own sentiments, and those of my constituents who sent me here to do so. He vindicated the character of the militia, in opposition to the disgraceful picture which Mr. WADSWORTH had painted of this respectable class of citizens, whom he (Mr. P.) insisted were always more spirited soldiery, and fitter for fighting the Indians than the regulars, although they did not always move at the sound of a trumpet or beat of a drum, which were necessary to rouse the attention of heart-broken, mercenary troops, who seldom act but from force, or fear of the whipping-post. Militia were not so well acquainted with military show, or the display of columns; neither did the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, when acting Major of a regiment little better than militia, find that the doctrine of tactics was of any great service to him.
Mr. P. further mentioned, that the forerunners of General Burgoyne's army were taken by General Stark's militia near Bennington; and the capture of the whole of Burgoyne's army was chiefly brought about by militia, as General Lincoln had very few regular troops at the time of his surrender. In short, the militia bore a conspicuous share of almost every engagement during the war. At Trenton, the men who took the Hessians were little other than militia, as they had been raised but a short time before. Mr. P. could vouch for them, as he was a witness of their activity and bravery. Another instance offered of their success at Charleston, after it was taken by the British and the regulars drove off; the militia kept possession of the country and supported themselves. He also remembered having been called away from the regular army in the North to take the command of some militia in Virginia, who supported themselves for twelve months without either pay or provisions from the United States; and yet they were never once defeated or disgraced, neither did they leave the country unprotected and exposed; and all they received for their services was certificates which necessity obliged them to alienate at three shillings in the pound to persons who are now in possession of them drawing an annual interest of nearly as much, and who never perhaps had a good wish toward the Revolution. He next quoted the militia under Colonel Mercer, at Yorktown, who were successful in a skirmish with the enemy under Tarleton. These and several other arguments in favor of the militia, whom he still maintained to be the best security of a country, were used by Mr. P. He would not advocate the raising them from all parts of the United States, but only in such places as the safety of the frontiers required it most: they were not, to be sure, accustomed to the display of the column, &c., but they knew how to take the Indians in a proper way through the woods.
It gave him pain to hear the character of the militia so much traduced, and it also was a painful reflection to think of the two disgraceful defeats of our armies under Generals Harmar and St. Clair; indeed, it would have a strange appearance to the world, to think that this country is inhabited by the same men who lived in 1776. He repeated what he had before asserted, that most of the present regulars were collected from the stews and brothels of the cities, and had none of the spirit or principles of the honest yeomanry, who composed the militia during former wars, when every man turned out impressed with a good cause.
It was not, he said, his desire to criminate any individual in office, although he would maintain his right of expressing his opinion on that floor, so long as he held a seat in the House. But with regard to myself, said he, I am not disposed to pour incense into any man's cup; I respect the PRESIDENT as much as any man, and think him incapable of doing wrong, at least on those principles that foreign despots are supposed to do no wrong, because the people are their subjects, and dare not to say their sovereigns do wrong, and dare not contradict this tyrannic maxim. If the House, or if the PRESIDENT, have committed an error, they ought to correct it; for my part, I conceived the whole of the plan wrong from the beginning. From the present appearances, he was convinced we should get no peace with the Indians, unless it were dictated by the British agents in Canada; for it was clear, as long as they can do us the injustice to withhold territory from us, we can have little reason to expect their aid or friendship in bringing about a peace which is so desirable. He hoped to live to see the day that America will be able to show herself superior to her enemies, and chastise them: at present, it would be improper to engage in any war, if it could be avoided.
In addition to the foregoing reasons offered by Mr. P. for being opposed to a war establishment, he also remarked, that it was from a desire to see the public debt redeemed without resorting to new taxes; for if they once should get fixed there, (pointing up to the Senate Chamber,) we should never be able to withdraw them, whether they were necessary or not. He concluded by a hearty wish that the motion made by his friend from North Carolina might succeed.
Mr. BOUDINOT was against the motion, as he thought any immediate alteration of the present system would be attended with dangerous consequences, under the present circumstances of the United States. He did not think it would be justifiable to alter it. It would show an instability in our public measures, especially at this moment, when we have done every thing to bring about a peace with the hostile Indians: and, when it is just advancing to the season for effecting it--when it is at the eve of completion--shall we rashly counteract the whole? and after having brought the enemy, who were so much elated on account of their recent success, to a proper sense of our power and force to impose an honorable peace, would it not be extremely imprudent to lessen our own consequence before we have accomplished the object? The Indians would, in this case, most indubitably raise their demands in proportion to what they supposed to be our weakness. Mr. B. added several other observations.
Mr. WILLIS had always been strongly impressed with a dislike for standing armies; but when he considered the situation of the frontiers, and particularly of the State of Georgia, he must give his vote against the motion. Neither did he think two regiments by any means a sufficient force, even to garrison the posts.
On motion, the committee rose and reported progress.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of State, enclosing a list of the several persons employed in his office, with the salary allowed to each, pursuant to the resolution of this House of the thirty-first ultimo; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill making compensation to the widows and orphans of certain persons who were killed by Indians, under the sanction of flags of truce, and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose and reported progress.
THURSDAY, January 3.
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, from the committee appointed, presented a bill to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions: which was received, and read twice, and committed.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill to make compensation to the widows and orphans of certain persons who were killed by Indians, under the sanction of flags of truce; and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had again had the said bill under consideration, and made several amendments thereto.
Ordered, That the said bill, with the amendments, do lie on the table.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, enclosing a list of the persons employed in the several offices of his Department, with the salary allowed to each, pursuant to the resolution of this House, of the 31st ultimo; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Military Establishment.
The order of the day being called for, the House went into Committee of the Whole, (Mr. White in the chair,) on Mr. STEELE's motion for reducing part of the present military establishment of the United States.
In reply to the speech made yesterday by Mr. WADSWORTH, and which had been expressed in such strong language, Mr. STEELE thought it necessary to make a few observations, as a preliminary, before the House went further into the debate.