Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16) (part 4 of 10)

Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 1 (of 16) (part 4 of 10)

I am of opinion, that were Great Britain, Holland, or any other country, to fund its debts precisely in the same situation as the American debt, some equitable interference of the Government would take place. The South Sea scheme, in which a change, amounting to one thousand per cent. happened in the value of stock, is well known to have produced an interference, and without any injury whatever to the subsequent credit of the nation. It is true, that in many respects, the case differed from that of the United States; but, in other respects, there is a degree of similitude, which warrants the conjecture. It may be objected, that such a provision as I propose will exceed the public ability; I do not think the public unable to discharge honorably all its engagements, or that it will be unwilling, if the appropriations shall be satisfactory. I regret, as much as any member, the unavoidable weight and duration of the burthens to be imposed; having never been a proselyte to the doctrine, that public debts are public benefits. I consider them, on the contrary, as evils which ought to be removed as fast as honor and justice will permit, and shall heartily join in the means necessary for that purpose. I conclude with declaring, as my opinion, that if any case were to happen among individuals, bearing an analogy to that of the public, a Court of Equity would interpose for its redress; or that if a tribunal existed on earth, by which nations could be compelled to do right, the United States would be compelled to do something not dissimilar in its principles to what I have contended for.

Mr. LIVERMORE wished the amendment he had formerly mentioned might be made to the original proposition; it was, to insert, before the word "interest," the words, "at a certain rate o."

Mr. SHERMAN apprehended it would strongly imply that Congress meant to reduce the rate of interest, and he did not wish that question involved with the present.

Mr. LIVERMORE's motion being seconded, the question was put thereon, and it being lost,

Mr. MADISON moved to amend the original proposition, so as to read as follows:

Resolved, That adequate funds ought to be provided for paying the interest and principal of the domestic debt, as the same shall be liquidated; and that in such liquidation, the present holders of public securities, which have been alienated, shall be settled with according to the highest market rate of such securities; and that the balance of the sums due from the public, be paid in such proportion to the original holder of such securities.

Mr. BOUDINOT said, he had long been in the habit of paying great respect to the sentiments of the gentleman from Virginia; but he feared, on this occasion, he had not viewed the subject with his usual accuracy. He was not surprised that the gentleman was led away by the dictates of his heart, for he believed he really felt for the misfortunes of his fellow-citizens, who had been the prey of avaricious men. Indeed, it is matter of less surprise, on another account, for heretofore I contemplated the subject in nearly the same point of view. Influenced by a desire to do justice to every person connected with the public, I wished for the means of compensating the original holders, who had sold their certificates at a great loss; but I found the thing, upon long and careful examination, to be both unjust and impracticable.

The honorable gentleman tells us, that the debt was contracted for meritorious services, and inquires whether the creditor received an adequate compensation in full discharge? I say, sir, this debt is still due, and that the person to whom it is due, has received nothing but a certificate as evidence of his claim; but then, if any of our first creditors have put another person in their shoes, the question will arise, are we to disown the act of the party himself? Are we to say, we will not be bound by your transfer, we will not treat with your representative, but insist upon a resettlement with you alone? But the same reasoning will oblige us to go further, and investigate all the claims of those who have received of the Government Continental money, which they afterwards parted with for ten, forty, or one hundred for one.

FRIDAY, February 12.

Abolition of Slavery.

The following memorial of the Pennsylvania Society for promoting the Abolition of Slavery, the relief of free negroes unlawfully held in bondage, and the improvement of the condition of the African race, was presented and read:

The memorial respectfully showeth,

That from a regard for the happiness of mankind, an association was formed several years since in this State, by a number of her citizens, of various religious denominations, for promoting the abolition of slavery, and for the relief of those unlawfully held in bondage. A just and acute conception of the true principles of liberty, as it spread through the land, produced accessions to their numbers, many friends to their cause, and a Legislative co-operation with their views, which, by the blessing of Divine Providence, have been successfully directed to the relieving from bondage a large number of their fellow-creatures of the African race. They have also the satisfaction to observe, that in consequence of that spirit of philanthropy and genuine liberty which is generally diffusing its beneficial influence, similar institutions are forming at home and abroad.

That mankind are all formed by the same Almighty Being, alike objects of his care, and equally designed for the enjoyment of happiness, the Christian religion teaches us to believe, and the political creed of Americans fully coincides with the position. Your memorialists, particularly engaged in attending to the distresses arising from slavery, believe it their indispensable duty to present this subject to your notice. They have observed, with real satisfaction, that many important and salutary powers are vested in you for "promoting the welfare and securing the blessings of liberty to the people of the United States;" and as they conceive that these blessings ought rightfully to be administered, without distinction of color, to all descriptions of people, so they indulge themselves in the pleasing expectation, that nothing which can be done for the relief of the unhappy objects of their care will be either omitted or delayed.

From a persuasion that equal liberty was originally the portion, and is still the birthright of all men; and influenced by the strong ties of humanity, and the principles of their institution, your memorialists conceive themselves bound to use all justifiable endeavors to loosen the bands of slavery, and promote a general enjoyment of the blessings of freedom. Under these impressions, they earnestly entreat your serious attention to the subject of slavery; that you will be pleased to countenance the restoration of liberty to those unhappy men, who alone, in this land of freedom, are degraded into perpetual bondage, and who, amidst the general joy of surrounding freemen, are groaning in servile subjection; that you will devise means for removing this inconsistency from the character of the American people; that you will promote mercy and justice towards this distressed race, and that you will step to the very verge of the power vested in you for discouraging every species of traffic in the persons of our fellow-men.

BENJ. FRANKLIN, President.

PHILADELPHIA, February 3, 1790.

Mr. HARTLEY then called up the memorial presented yesterday, from the annual meeting of Friends at Philadelphia, for a second reading; whereupon the same was read a second time, and moved to be committed.

Mr. TUCKER was sorry the petition had a second reading, as he conceived it contained an unconstitutional request, and from that consideration he wished it thrown aside. He feared the commitment of it would be a very alarming circumstance to the Southern States; for if the object was to engage Congress in an unconstitutional measure, it would be considered as an interference with their rights, the people would become very uneasy under the Government, and lament that they ever put additional powers into their hands. He was surprised to see another memorial on the same subject; and that signed by a man who ought to have known the constitution better. He thought it a mischievous attempt, as it respected the persons in whose favor it was intended. It would buoy them up with hopes, without a foundation, and as they could not reason on the subject, as more enlightened men would, they might be led to do what they would be punished for, and the owners of them, in their own defence, would be compelled to exercise over them a severity they were not accustomed to. Do these men expect a general emancipation of slaves by law? This would never be submitted to by the Southern States without a civil war. Do they mean to purchase their freedom? He believed their money would fall short of the price. But how is it they are more concerned in this business than others? Are they the only persons who possess religion and morality? If the people are not so exemplary, certainly they will admit the clergy are; why, then, do we not find them uniting in a body, praying us to adopt measures for the promotion of religion and piety, or any moral object? They know it would be an improper interference; and to say the best of this memorial, it is an act of imprudence, which he hoped would receive no countenance from the House.

Mr. SENEY denied that there was any thing unconstitutional in the memorial; at least, if there was it had escaped his attention, and he should be obliged to the gentleman to point it out. Its only object was, that Congress should exercise their constitutional authority to abate the horrors of slavery, as far as they could; indeed, he considered that all altercation on the subject of commitment was at an end, as the House had impliedly determined yesterday that it should be committed.

Mr. BURKE saw the disposition of the House, and he feared it would be referred to a committee, maugre all their opposition; but he must insist, that it prayed for an unconstitutional measure; did it not desire Congress to interfere and abolish the slave trade, while the constitution expressly stipulates that Congress shall exercise no such power? He was certain the commitment would sound an alarm, and blow the trumpet of sedition in the Southern States. He was sorry to see the petitioners paid more attention to than the constitution; however, he would do his duty and oppose the business totally; and if it was referred to a committee, as mentioned yesterday, consisting of a member from each State, and he was appointed, he would decline serving.

Mr. SCOTT.--I cannot entertain a doubt but the memorial is strictly agreeable to the constitution; it respects a part of the duty particularly assigned to us by that instrument, and I hope we may be inclined to take it into consideration. We can at present lay our hands upon a small duty of ten dollars; I would take this, and if it is all that we can do, we must be content: but I am sorry that the framers of the constitution did not go further, and enable us to interdict the traffic entirely; for I look upon the slave trade to be one of the most abominable things on earth; and if there was neither God nor devil, I should oppose it upon the principles of humanity, and the law of nature. I cannot, for my part, conceive how any person can be said to acquire a property in another; is it by virtue of conquest? What are the rights of conquest? Some have dared to advance this monstrous principle, that the conqueror is absolute master of his conquest; that he may dispose of it as his property, and treat it as he pleases; but, enough of those who reduce men to the state of transferable goods, or use them like beasts of burthen, who deliver them up as property or patrimony to others. Let us argue on principles countenanced by reason and becoming humanity; the petitioners view the subject in a religious light, but I do not stand in need of religious motives to induce me to reprobate the traffic in human flesh; other considerations weigh with me to support the commitment of the memorial, and to support every constitutional measure likely to bring about its total abolition. Perhaps, in our Legislative capacity, we can go no further than to impose a duty of ten dollars; but I do not know how far I might go, if I was one of the Judges of the United States, and those people were to come before me and claim their emancipation; but I am sure I would go as far as I could.

Mr. JACKSON differed with the gentleman last up, and supposed the master had a qualified property in his slave. He said the contrary doctrine would go to the destruction of every species of personal service. The gentleman said, he did not stand in need of religion to induce him to reprobate slavery, but if he is guided by that evidence upon which the Christian system is founded, he will find that religion is not against it. He will see, from Genesis to Revelations, the current setting strong that way. There never was a Government on the face of the earth, but what permitted slavery. The purest sons of freedom in the Grecian Republics, the citizens of Athens and Lacedæmon, all held slaves. On this principle the nations of Europe are associated; it is the basis of the feudal system. But suppose all this to have been wrong, let me ask the gentleman if it is good policy to bring forward a business at this moment, likely to light up the flame of civil discord; for the people of the Southern States will resist one tyranny as soon as another? The other parts of the continent may bear them down by force of arms, but they will never suffer themselves to be divested of their property without a struggle. The gentleman says, if he was a Federal Judge, he does not know to what length he would go in emancipating these people; but I believe his judgment would be of short duration in Georgia, perhaps even the existence of such a judge might be in danger.

Mr. SHERMAN could see no difficulty in committing the memorial; because it was probable the committee would understand their business, and perhaps they might bring in such a report as would be satisfactory to gentlemen on both sides of the House.

Mr. BALDWIN was sorry the subject had ever been brought before Congress, because it was of a delicate nature as it respected some of the States. Gentlemen who had been present at the formation of this constitution could not avoid the recollection of the pain and difficulty which the subject caused in that body. The members from the Southern States were so tender upon this point, that they had well-nigh broken up without coming to any determination; however, from the extreme desire of preserving the Union, and obtaining an efficient Government, they were induced mutually to concede, and the constitution jealously guarded what they agreed to. If gentlemen look over the footsteps of that body, they will find the greatest degree of caution used to imprint them, so as not to be easily eradicated; but the moment we go to jostle on that ground, I fear we shall feel it tremble under our feet. Congress have no power to interfere with the importation of slaves beyond what is given in the ninth section of the first article of the constitution; every thing else is interdicted to them in the strongest terms. If we examine the constitution, we shall find the expressions relative to this subject cautiously expressed, and more punctiliously guarded than any other part, "The migration or importation of such persons shall not be prohibited by Congress." But lest this should not have secured the object sufficiently, it is declared, in the same section, "That no capitation or direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census;" this was intended to prevent Congress from laying any special tax upon negro slaves, as they might, in this way, so burthen the possessors of them as to induce a general emancipation. If we go on to the fifth article, we shall find the first and fifth clauses of the ninth section of the first article restrained from being altered before the year 1808.

Gentlemen have said that this petition does not pray for an abolition of the slave trade. I think, sir, it prays for nothing else; and therefore we have no more to do with it than if it prayed us to establish an order of nobility, or a national religion.

Mr. SYLVESTER said, that he had always been in the habit of respecting the Society called Quakers; he respected them for their exertions in the cause of humanity; but he thought the present was not a time to enter into a consideration of the subject, especially as he conceived it to be a business within the province of the State Legislatures.

Mr. LAWRENCE observed, that the subject would undoubtedly come under the consideration of the House; and he thought, as it was now before them, that the present time was as proper as any; he was therefore for committing the memorial, and when the prayer of it had been properly examined, they could see how far Congress may, constitutionally, interfere: as they knew the limits of their power on this, as well as every other occasion, there was no just apprehension to be entertained that they would go beyond it.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) insisted that it was not in the power of the House to grant the prayer of the petition, which went to the total abolishment of the slave trade, and it was therefore unnecessary to commit it. He observed, that in the Southern States difficulties had arisen on adopting the constitution, inasmuch as it was apprehended that Congress might take measures under it for abolishing the slave trade.

Perhaps the petitioners, when they applied to this House, did not think their object unconstitutional, but now they are told that it is, they will be satisfied with the answer, and press it no further. If their object had been for Congress to lay a duty of ten dollars per head on the importation of slaves, they would have said so, but that does not appear to have been the case. The commitment of the petition, on that ground, cannot be contended. If they will not be content with that, shall it be committed to investigate facts? The petition speaks of none. For what purpose, then, shall it be committed? If gentlemen can assign no good reason for the measure, they will not support it when they are told that it will create jealousies and alarm in the Southern States; for I can assure them that there is no point on which they are more jealous and suspicious, than on a business with which they think the Government has nothing to do.

When we entered into this confederacy, we did it from political, not from moral motives, and I do not think my constituents want to learn morals from the petitioners; I do not believe they want improvements in their moral system; if they do, they can get it at home.

The gentleman from Georgia has justly stated the jealousy of the Southern States. On entering into this Government, they apprehend that the other States, not knowing the necessity the citizens of the Southern States were under to hold this species of property, would, from motives of humanity and benevolence, be led to vote for a general emancipation; and had they not seen that the constitution provided against the effect of such a disposition, I may be bold to say they never would have adopted it. And, notwithstanding all the calmness with which some gentlemen have viewed the subject, they will find that this discussion alone will create great alarm. We have been told, that if this would be the case, we ought to have avoided it, by saying nothing; but it was not for that purpose that we were sent here. We look upon this measure as an attack upon the palladium of the property of our country; it is therefore our duty to oppose it by every means in our power. Gentlemen should consider, that when we entered into a political connection with the other States, that this property was there; it was acquired under a former Government, conformably to the laws and constitution, therefore any thing that will tend to deprive them of that property, must be an ex post facto law, and, as such, is forbidden by our political compact.

I said the States would never have entered into the Confederation, unless their property had been guarantied to them, for such is the state of agriculture in that country, that without slaves it must be abandoned. Why will these people, then, make use of arguments to induce the slave to turn his hand against his master? We labor under difficulties enough from the ravages of the late war. A gentleman can hardly come from that country with a servant or two, either to this place or Philadelphia, but there are persons trying to seduce his servants to leave him; and, when they have done this, the poor wretches are obliged to rob their master, in order to obtain a subsistence; all those, therefore, who are concerned in this seduction, are accessories to the robbery.

The reproaches which they cast upon the owners of negro property, is charging them with the want of humanity. I believe the proprietors have as much humanity as persons in any part of the continent, and are as conspicuous for their good morals as their neighbors. It was said yesterday that the Quakers are a society known to the laws and the constitution, but they are no more so than other religious societies; they stand exactly in the same situation; their memorial, therefore, relates to a matter in which they are no more interested than any other sect, and can only be considered as a piece of advice, which it is not customary to refer to a committee; but if it is supposed to pray for what they think a moral purpose, is that sufficient to induce us to commit it? What may appear a moral virtue in their eyes, may not be so in reality. I have heard of a sect of Shaking Quakers, who, I presume, suppose their tenets of a moral tendency. I am informed one of them forbids to intermarry, yet you may see them with a numerous offspring about them. Now, if these people were to petition Congress to pass a law prohibiting matrimony, would gentlemen agree to refer such a petition? I think if they would reject one of that nature, as improper, they ought also to reject this.

Mr. PAGE was in favor of the commitment. He hoped that the designs of the respectable memoralists would not be stopped at the threshold, in order to preclude a fair discussion of the prayer of the memorial. He observed, that gentlemen had founded their arguments upon a misrepresentation; for the object of the memorial is not declared to be the total abolition of the slave trade, but that Congress will consider whether it be not in reality within their power to exercise justice and mercy, which, if adhered to, they cannot doubt must produce the abolition of the slave trade. If, then, the prayer contained nothing unconstitutional, he trusted the meritorious effort of the petitioners would not be frustrated.

With respect to the alarm that was apprehended, he conjectured there was none; but there might be just cause if the memorial was not taken into consideration. He placed himself in the case of a slave, and said, that, on hearing that Congress had refused to listen to the decent suggestions of a respectable part of the community, he should infer that the General Government (from which was expected great good would result to every class of citizens) had shut their ears against the voice of humanity, and he should despair of any alleviation of the miseries he and his posterity had in prospect; if any thing could induce him to rebel, it must be a stroke like this, impressing on his mind all the horrors of despair. But if he was told that application was made in his behalf, and that Congress was willing to hear what could be urged in favor of discouraging the practice of importing his fellow-wretches, he would trust in their justice and humanity, and wait the decision patiently. He presumed that these unfortunate people would reason in the same way, and he, therefore, conceived the most likely way to prevent danger was to commit the petition. He lived in a State which had the misfortune of having in her bosom a great number of slaves; he held many of them himself, and was as much interested in the business, as any gentleman in South Carolina or Georgia, yet if he was determined to hold them in eternal bondage, he should feel no uneasiness or alarm on account of the present measure, because he should rely upon the virtue of Congress that they would not exercise any unconstitutional authority.

Mr. MADISON.--The debate has taken a serious turn, and it will be owing to this alone if an alarm is created; for, had the memorial been treated in the usual way, it would have been considered as a matter of course, and a report might have been made so as to have given general satisfaction. If there was the slightest tendency by the commitment to break in upon the constitution, he would object to it; but he did not see upon what ground such an event was to be apprehended. The petition prayed, in general terms, for the interference of Congress, so far as they were constitutionally authorized: but even if its prayer was, in some degree, unconstitutional, it might be committed, as was the case on Mr. Churchman's petition, one part of which was supposed to apply for an unconstitutional interference by the General Government. He admitted, that Congress is restricted by the constitution from taking measures to abolish the slave trade; yet there are a variety of ways by which it could countenance the abolition, and regulations might be made in relation to the introduction of them into the new States to be formed out of the Western Territory. He thought the object well worthy of consideration.

Mr. GERRY thought the interference of Congress fully compatible with the constitution, and could not help lamenting the miseries to which the natives of Africa were exposed by this inhuman commerce. He never contemplated the subject, without reflecting what his own feelings would be, in case himself, his children, or friends were placed in the same deplorable circumstances. He then adverted to the flagrant acts of cruelty which are committed in carrying on that traffic; and asked, whether it can be supposed that Congress has no power to prevent such abuses? He then referred to the constitution, and pointed out the restrictions laid on the General Government respecting the importation of slaves. It was not, he presumed, in the contemplation of any gentleman in this House to violate that part of the constitution; but that we have a right to regulate this business, is as clear as that we have any rights whatever; nor has the contrary been shown by any person who has spoken on the occasion. Congress can, agreeably to the constitution, lay a duty of ten dollars on imported slaves; they may do this immediately. He made a calculation of the value of the slaves in the Southern States, and supposed they may be worth ten millions of dollars. Congress have a right, if they see proper, to make a proposal to the Southern States to purchase the whole of them, and their resources in the Western Territory might furnish them with the means. He did not intend to suggest a measure of this kind; he only instanced these particulars to show that Congress certainly has a right to intermeddle in the business. He thought that no objection had been offered of any force to prevent the commitment of the memorial.

Mr. BOUDINOT had carefully examined the petition and found nothing like what was complained of by gentlemen contained in it; he, therefore, hoped they would withdraw their opposition and suffer it to be committed.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said, that as the petitioners had particularly prayed Congress to take measures for the annihilation of the slave trade; and as that was admitted, on all hands, to be beyond their power, and as the petitioners would not be gratified by a tax of ten dollars per head, which was all that was within their power, there was, of consequence, no occasion for committing it.

The question on the commitment being about to be put, the yeas and nays were called for, and were as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Brown, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Griffin, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Huntington, Lawrence, Lee, Leonard, Livermore, Madison, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Partridge, Rensselaer, Schureman, Scott, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth, White, and Wynkoop--43.

NAYS.--Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Burke, Coles, Huger, Jackson, Matthews, Sylvester, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, and Tucker--14.

The memorials were referred accordingly.

MONDAY, February 15.

Public Credit.

The House went again into a Committee of the Whole on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's motion for a discrimination being under consideration,

Mr. SEDGWICK.--The proposition, Mr. Chairman, contains a question of the utmost importance. And the committee must be obliged to the gentleman who brought it forward for his very ingenious discussion of the subject of the domestic debt. With respect to the question now before the committee, so much has been said, that I think it will not be necessary to consume much of their time in the investigation. On the subject of contracts I have to observe, that whenever a voluntary engagement is made for a valuable consideration for property advanced or services rendered, and the terms of the contract are understood, if no fraud or imposition is practised, the party engaging is bound to the performance, according to the literal meaning of the words in which it is expressed. Such contract, whether of a Government or an individual, may be either transferable or not transferable. The latter species of contract receives an additional value from its capacity of being transferred, if the circumstances of the possessor should render a sale of it necessary or convenient to him. To render the transferable quality of such evidences of contract in any degree advantageous to the possessor, it is necessary to consider, in case of sale, the alienee possessed of all the property of the original holder; and indeed it is highly absurd, and even contradictory, to say, that such evidences of debt are transferable, and at the same time to say that there is in them a kind of property that the holder could not convey by bona fide contract.

This is the construction which has invariably been given to these contracts, whether formed by Government or by individuals. To deprive the citizen of the power of binding himself by his own voluntary contract, or to prevent a disposition of property in its nature alienable, would be a violent and unjustifiable invasion of one of those rights of which man, as a citizen, is the most tenacious, and would indeed break one of the strongest bonds by which society is holden together.

In the transfers which have been made, the contracts were fairly made; the whole rights have been transferred. It is not pretended any fraud or imposition has been practised. The risk was calculated by the parties, and it was observed, that the risk contemplated a revolution in the Government.

From the foregoing deduction of particulars, it is presumed to be proved that a property is vested in the transferees. That if this property is divested by the Government, the law for that purpose would have a retrospective operation, and that no ex post facto law could be more alarming than that by which the right of private property is violently invaded.

Having considered the nature of the contract, and of the obligations which result from it, I beg leave to call the attention of the committee to those circumstances by which that obligation may be destroyed, impaired, or suspended. They are stated to be, 1. Performance. 2. Voluntary discharge. 3. Composition. 4. Inability.

And gentlemen are called upon to give information of any other causes which can produce either of those effects.

With regard, more particularly, to the proposition before the committee, I have, to observe, that with regard to these contracts, there has existed a depreciation in consequence of the failure of Government regularly to pay the interest. That in this depreciated state, the securities have been alienated; that of course the original holders have sustained a loss; that if the loss resulted from the fault, and not the misfortune of Government, the creditors have, undeniably, a demand against the Government for compensation; that this demand, however well founded, can never authorize the Government to invade the honestly acquired property of the present possessors, a property warranted by the terms of the contract itself, and sanctioned by the act of Congress, of April, 1783, and the validity of it recognized by the constitution we have sworn to support.

With regard to the claims of the original holders, it is, however, observable, that the domestic creditor, at the time the contract was formed, well knew the nature of the constitution of the Government administered by Congress, the other contracting party; that its power of performance depended on the ability and good-will of the States; that Congress had always performed its duty, had made the necessary requisitions; that this was its utmost power; and that the failure had arisen wholly from the neglect of the States. I therefore submit it to the committee, whether, if the original holder has a just or equitable demand, he should not resort to the State of which he is a member?

I admit, that the case of an original holder is indeed a hard one; that I have a respect for his misfortunes and for his pretensions; that if satisfaction is discovered to be just and practicable, I would not hesitate to go to the utmost ability of the Government for that purpose. But let me ask, what merit will the Government possess, if it strip one class of citizens, who have acquired property by the known and established rules of law, under the specious pretence of doing justice to another class of citizens?

It was implicitly agreed, that eighty per cent. depreciation would not authorize the interference proposed by the motion. I ask, then, for some point of depreciation to be pointed out, which will authorize such interference.

The question for which I contend has received the universal approbation of mankind; there are no instances of the interference contended for, and this general sense of mankind affords me some evidence of truth.

This contract was founded on a valuable consideration. It was the price of our liberty and independence. The possessor claimed, according to the very terms of the contract, though it is not pretended that the engagements of Government have been performed. No composition with the creditors is proposed; nor is the proposition founded on any pretended inability of the Government; for to comply with the intention of it, 1,600,000 dollars, annually, more than is proposed by the report of the Secretary, would be required.

By reason of the circumstances which have taken place, the honorable gentleman (Mr. MADISON) supposes, that, if the whole amount of a security shall be paid to the present possessor, he will have a sum of money to which the original holder is equitably entitled. If this is true, then, no interposition is necessary, it being a well-known rule of law, that an action will always lie to recover money out of the hands of another, to which the plaintiff, from the principles of equity and good conscience, is entitled.

With regard to the effects, which will probably result from this measure, I have to observe, that they will be destructive to our national character. That the world is now willing, charitably, to impute our former miscarriages to events we could not control; but should our first measures, in regard to public faith, be a violent infraction of our contracts, it will sanction all our bitterest enemies have said, to our disadvantage. With regard to its effects on credit, little dependence will be placed on the plighted faith of a Government which, under the pretence of doing equity, has exercised a power of dispensing with its contracts, and has thereby formed for itself a precedent of future violations, both with respect to its funds and contracts. With regard to discovering who was the original holder, except so far as respects the army debt, I am certain there are no documents by which the necessary facts can be discovered.

I presume it is a fact, with regard to much the greater part of the debt, that any fictitious name was inserted. And with regard to the army debt, the soldiers, generally, who were in the service at the conclusion of the war, had received ample satisfaction for their services, at the time of their enlistment, having been paid more, on an average, than two hundred and fifty dollars per man.

I have only to add, that the proposed system will lay a foundation for infinite frauds and perjuries, and that it will, beyond all powers of calculation, multiply the evils of speculation.

Mr. LAWRENCE observed, that the proposition of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) derived force from the talents and knowledge of that gentleman in public transactions; but that, on examination, it would be found to contain doctrines very repugnant to the interest and prosperity of the Union.

He then stated, that the debts contracted by the United States were for loans of money, supplies of articles necessary for the public wants, and for actual services rendered in different employments. That these debts were ultimately adjusted and reduced to their present transferable form. That every part of the contract was essential to it. The negotiability was a material part. That the nature of the contract was frequently recognized by the late Government. That, in 1783, Congress recommended certain funds to be established to pay the interest, and put the principal in a course of discharge. That this recommendation was unequivocal, as to the nature of it, and made no discrimination between the possessor and original holder. That the subsequent conduct of that body was conformable to this recommendation. That they had annually called on the States to furnish money to pay the interest, without discriminating between the original holder and present possessor. That they had paid interest on the securities, without making any discrimination. That provision had been made for holders of loan-office certificates that were subject to liquidation, to have them cancelled, and others issued for the specie value. That the holders of certificates were enabled to have them registered, to guard against accidents; and that no distinction was made between the original holder and the alienee. That the transferable nature of the claim was for the benefit of the creditor, because it gave it an active value. That he consented to take it, and consulted his own advantage. That the conduct of the late Congress, since the war, had been uniform in the support of this contract, and they had done no act to impair its obligation, according to the terms of it. That this contract was valid against the Government; for, notwithstanding the truth of the gentleman's observations, that the nation is the same, though the bodies that administered the Government were different, there was yet far greater security; and to remove all doubt, a clause that made all debts and engagements valid against the United States, under the late General Government, valid against the present, was inserted in the constitution.

He further observed, that this contract having descended upon the Government, there was no right in the Legislature to impair the force of it. That the particular Governments are restrained from passing laws impairing the obligations of contracts. That this interference would be a violation of the contract, between the individuals, when the certificate was transferred; and it would not be presumed, the States being prohibited, that the General Government had the power to do it.

He then adverted to the principles of the gentleman, to wrest the obligation of the public to the original holder; and observed, that the same principles were in favor of the present possessor. That public justice required a performance of contracts, when there was no fraud on the part of the holder. That the possessor had been guilty of no fraud, no deception. That the contract between him and the original holder was fair, and that a hazard and risk attended the purchase adequate to the advantage. That nothing short of a revolution in Government could have produced payment. That if there was an imposition, the public occasioned it; and between the original holder and the public, there might be a claim for retribution. That public faith was as sacredly pledged to the bearer, or present possessor, as to the original creditor. That public credit results from fair and upright conduct; that the Government, to support it, must perform its contract. That this was a contract recognized by them, and as such should be discharged. That the condition we have been in made it proper for us to be cautious on this subject; and even at present, people doubted our disposition to establish our credit. That this would give a fatal blow to it, and when we should recover, if ever, was doubtful. That the public opinion was difficult to be ascertained; gentlemen had different modes to determine it. He supposed it was better ascertained by the acts of public bodies than by squibs in the newspapers, or by pamphlets written by individuals. That the uniform conduct of men, deputed by the particular States to represent them, in the late General Government, was the best standard; and their opinion, from the year 1783, was in favor of the present possessor. That the conduct of the particular States was another circumstance; that he did not know of any discrimination made by them, though it had been attempted. That the general opinion of men of property was in favor of it; and that these sources of public opinion were more certain than those he had before mentioned.

He further observed, that although he believed gentlemen supposed no advantage would be derived to the United States from this discrimination, yet much would arise. That part of the army was composed of foreigners, many had left the country, others were dead; all their part would be unclaimed. That certificates were issued to public officers to a great amount, and were paid by them to persons from whom they purchased. The difficulty of making proof of the original creditor would be great; and, from this circumstance, great sums would be gained to the public. That there were persons enough who would have sagacity to discern this; and they would doubt the purity of the public motive, should the gentleman's plan be adopted.

He then adverted to the circumstance of the new creditor receiving paper. That this paper might be subject to another liquidation on the same principle as the present. That it would introduce doubt and distrust of public engagements; and there would be no greater security, although a fund was pledged, than there is at present, for whenever the public pleased, they might destroy the obligation. Arguments were improperly addressed to their feelings; but that however hard it may be for the original creditor, who had parted with his certificates, to contribute to pay the debt, yet it would be equally hard on him who had been injured by Continental money, who had been plundered by the enemy, who had had his property burned by them in the course of the war; and that instances of these kinds were numerous.

He then adverted to the doctrine of the Court of Equity; and urged that this court must be governed by principle. That were the committee this high court, and the United States the original creditor, and the present possessor before them; and if there appeared no fraud on the part of the possessor, the original creditor would have no just claim on him. That between the United States and original creditors, the United States were in fault, and the claim, if good, would be against them.

Mr. SMITH (of S. C.) remarked, that it was necessary and proper the House should give the subject the most ample discussion. The question had long agitated the public mind, and the people should know that it had occupied the serious attention of their Representatives, and be made acquainted with the principles of their decision. For his part, having bestowed on it the most attentive consideration, he could assert, that the more he contemplated it, the more he was impressed with a conviction, that the proposition was unjust, impolitic, and impracticable. It consisted of two parts: The one was to take away the property of one person; the other was to give that property to another; and this by a voluntary interposition of the House, by a mere act of power, without the assent of the former, or without even the application of the latter. For it was remarkable, that the original holders, who had alienated their certificates, had not come forward with this demand; and it is presumable, that, had they applied for redress, they would reject any indemnification which was the result of such manifest injustice. To prove that this was taking away the property of a citizen by force, he observed, that the purchaser had, by a fair purchase, acquired a right to the full amount of the sum expressed in the certificate, which it was not within the power of the House to divest him of. No tribunal on earth could lawfully deprive a man of his property fairly obtained. The purchaser bought under the act of Congress, making the securities transferable; and having given the market price, without fraud or imposition, he was, by virtue of such purchase, vested with the complete and absolute ownership of the certificate, as fully as the original holder; and had as much right to demand full payment as the original holder would have had, had the security been still in his hands. Even should the House refuse, by an act of power, to pay him more than half his demand, the other half would still remain against the public; it could not be extinguished. The debt would continue to haunt them; the creditors would loudly clamor for justice, and sooner or later the balance would be paid. Then would they incur all the odium of a violation of private rights, without deriving to the public any advantage whatever. He considered the measure as doing a certain evil, that a possible good might result from it. This was not, in his opinion, the proper mode of doing good. Justice cannot be founded on injustice; and to take money out of the pocket of one man, to put it into that of another, is a precedent which may justify future interferences. This step would lead the House to others: for, if the principle be a just one, then the Government should look into all the transactions and speculations of individuals, in order to correct them, and make retribution to every individual according to his losses. He was persuaded, that the true policy of a Legislative body was, to pursue the broad road of justice, clearly marked out before them; for it was an undeniable truth, that whenever they deviated into by-roads and trackless paths, without any other guide than their own imagination, they would get bewildered in a labyrinth of difficulties, and rejoice to trace back their steps, and regain the plain road. Now, the plain line of conduct is, to do strict justice, such as is enforced in judicial tribunals, between man and man, in a similar case. The debtor is bound to pay the debt to the holder of the security; the contract, between the giver of the bond and the person to whom it was given, is done away the moment the latter assigns it to another person. If A gives a bond to B, who parts with it to C, there is no longer any obligation on the part of A to pay B, but he must pay it to C. A has nothing to do with the private negotiations between B and C, nor to inquire what consideration was given for the security. All that he has to inquire is, whether he really signed it and had value received for it, and the amount of it. He cannot say to the holder, you gave but fifty dollars for this security of one hundred dollars, and I will pay you only fifty; for the law will compel him to pay the hundred. This is a point of justice between man and man. Is there another point of law and justice for the Government? By what rule is the Government to square its conduct, if not by those sacred rules which form the basis of civil society, and are the safeguard of private property?

The gentleman from Virginia has said, that giving the present holders, by alienation, the highest market price, would be doing them ample justice; but did the public mean to refund them the money they had actually advanced? No; they were to receive this ample justice by a bit of paper, nominally for ten shillings; but which this very measure would instantly depreciate to eight, or six shillings. They would have this consolation, that, according to the gentleman's reasoning, they would still have a claim against the Government for the balance. For, if the original holder, by selling his certificate for four shillings, has now a just claim against the Government for the balance of sixteen shillings, which it is asserted he has, of course the alienee, to whom the public should now acknowledge a debt of ten shillings, which he would sell for only six, would hereafter have a just demand against the public for four shillings. The reasoning might be carried further, for it would follow, that whenever the public shall pay in paper which shall depreciate, the seller will have a demand against the Government for the difference.

The constitution itself, he said, was opposed to the measure, for it was an ex post facto law, which was prohibited in express terms. The transfer of public securities was lawful at the time these alienations were made; an attempt, therefore, to punish the transferees is an attempt to make an ex post facto law, by making that now unlawful which was lawful at the time it was done. It alters the nature of the transaction, and annexes the idea of guilt to that which at the moment of commission, was not only perfectly innocent, but was explicitly authorized and encouraged by a public act of Congress. By that act those who had money were invited to purchase of those who held securities, and now we are called upon to punish the purchasers who bought under that invitation. The constitution restrains the States from passing any laws impairing the force of contracts; a fortiori is the Legislature of the Union restrained. What an example to hold up to the Judiciary of the United States! How could they annul a State law, when the State would be able to plead a precedent on the part of Congress? The right of property is a sacred right; no tribunal on earth can deprive a citizen of his property, unless for a fair equivalent, for the public welfare. The purchaser is vested, by the sale, with an absolute right, to the full amount of the security, and it is beyond their authority to divest him of it. They might, indeed, by an act of power, declare that he should be paid only half; but his right to the other moiety would not be extinguished. It had been said, that the original holder still had a claim against the public, because he had received only two shillings and sixpence for services worth twenty shillings. On the same principle, and with more justice, the present holder would still have a claim for ten shillings, because he has the public bond for twenty shillings. No ingenuity can overcome these stubborn principles of law and justice; they are immutable, and must ultimately prevail. The House had been told that if the Government had defrauded the original holders out of their dues, it was fit the public should rectify the fraud. The former Government was not deficient in inclination to do them ample justice; but, from the imbecility of the Confederation, had not the means. In those days of democratic enthusiasm, the people were afraid of an energetic Government: having so recently experienced the severity of the former one, the citizens of these States were cautious in trusting any Government with power; and it is not improbable that some of the original holders, who suffered their embarrassments, from the want of a Government competent to the payment of its debts, would themselves have opposed vesting Congress with powers adequate to this object. Even the present constitution, which is a mild one, met with considerable opposition: had it been rejected, the public securities would have never been paid.

Mr. AMES agreed with the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) in regard to the validity of the debt. There was propriety in saying the nation is the same, though the Government be changed. The debt is the price of our liberties, and cannot be diminished a farthing, the gentleman from Virginia says; and why? Because the Government, as one of the contracting parties, cannot annul, or vary the bargain without the consent of the other. If the measure proposed by that gentleman corresponds with that sound principle, he should have the pleasure of agreeing with him on the ultimate decision; but if the measure should be found, on a fair discussion, to be subversive of that principle, it would not merit the countenance of the committee.

A claim upon our justice is made, on behalf of the original holders of securities, who have transferred them. Does the plighted faith of the country stand charged to pay the difference between the price their securities sold for in the market and their nominal sum? In order to make the affirmative appear, the worthy gentleman has said, that the paper is the only evidence of a prior contract; and while the paper was sold, the residuary right to the debt still remained in the seller. Supposing this novel doctrine to be true, which cannot be conceded, it will not warrant any conclusion in prejudice of any purchaser of the Loan-office debt; for the paper was given when the loan was made; as no prior debt existed, the paper is the very debt. The gentleman ought, therefore, to confine his motion to the army debt, as his principle seems inapplicable to any other. And even on liquidating the army debt, the certificate extinguished the prior debt; otherwise the public would be twice charged. As, when one man owes another an account, and gives his bond for the balance, the account is no longer of force. By the terms of the certificate, the person transferring has lost his claim against the public. He has freely transferred; for if violence or fraud were practised, the law will afford him redress. In society, as well as in a state of nature, property is changed by the consent of the last occupant. He may dispose of it by gift or at half price, and give a complete title. Nor will the pretence that this transfer was free only in appearance, avail; for the motives which disposed the owner to sell cannot affect the right of the purchaser. Every such creditor risked something; either that the Government would not pay him at all, or not in due season. The risk, computed in free and open market, will be nearly right. It is a kind of insurance against these risks, and the insurers and insured will calculate the rate of insurance better than Government can do it. If there is a new risk of Government interposing, it seems that the purchaser, who may be called the insurer, did not rate his risk high enough. It seems pretty clear, therefore, that there is no claim on the stipulated justice of the country.

The committee rose, reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.

TUESDAY, February 16.

Public Credit.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. JACKSON observed, that although as young a politician as any on the floor, and convinced that the weight of experience was against him, on so important a national subject, he could not be silent; particularly as he had the honor of seconding the gentleman's motion (Mr. MADISON) now before the House, that it would be therefore expected that he should bring forward his reasons, and the principle which actuated him to it. He confessed, that had he not before leaned to the side of a discrimination, the arguments of that able gentleman would have induced him to support the plan he had brought forward. He was induced on another motive to rise, to show that the numerous arguments of the gentlemen in opposition, yesterday, had not convinced him of the impracticability or injustice of the composition.

The House were told much of the moral obligations we were under of paying our debts, and the impolicy and injustice of interfering with private contracts. The obligation, he believed, was nowhere denied; the debt was of the highest nature; it was the price of our independence: the only difficulty is, how that debt shall be discharged. He would here observe, that the justice of the plan before the House, had not been so fully objected to, as the impracticability, although it had been asserted to be unjust, by some of the gentlemen who had spoken.

He would consider the justice of the proposition. The House had been told the nature of those contracts, and the valuable considerations of them. The contract, as it struck him, fell under the legal terms of do, ut des; I give that thou mayest give--or, I give that I may receive. In all contracts there are three requisites: 1st. The agreement. 2d. The consideration. 3d. The thing to be done or omitted. This consideration is to be an equivalent, or full recompense for the thing to be performed. Let us examine what is the thing to be done, and what the consideration is. The creditor, who was to perform the third article of the contract, held twenty shillings, which was to be given for a valuable consideration. What was this consideration? Two shillings and sixpence. He argued, that if this twenty shillings was worth no more than two shillings and sixpence, the contract was fair and substantial; but, if gentlemen carried the idea further, and declared this twenty shillings was money of equal value with the two shillings and sixpence given, he contended that the contract was destroyed. Equity would relieve, would declare it an unrighteous bargain, that there was not an adequate compensation, and would set aside the contract.

This public opinion is in favor of the original creditor; it is impossible to be otherwise. The people of America are a grateful people, and they cannot, with indifference, view the earnings of those who established their independence, converted into the coffers of the wealthy and ambitious. The speculator, he contended, was already more than satisfied, if it was only on the principle of interest which had accrued for six, seven, and eight years past, and which they had speculated on since.

Mr. BENSON.--The gentlemen in favor of this motion come forward as the advocates of the late army. I wish, therefore, to be ascertained of one fact, do the army wish a measure of this kind to take place? I apprehend they do not; and I am led to this opinion from a knowledge of the habits of military men; they prefer their honor to every pecuniary consideration, and they generally are actuated by that principle alone. I will state a case. Suppose I purchased an officer's certificate for one hundred dollars, and I was to fund it; the Treasurer would say, you are to receive but fifty dollars, the other fifty are reserved for the original holder. Now, if I was to go and tell the officer, that, notwithstanding my purchase of all his right, title, and claim to the one hundred dollars, the Government would give me but fifty, retaining the other fifty for him, he would answer, I will never receive a farthing of it, because it is your money, fairly and honorably purchased of me. Now, in this case, what would you do? Should these fifty dollars fall to the Government, or to me? I reason in this manner, because I suppose this would be a general case. The Society of Cincinnati, of the State of New York, have, by a resolution, which they have published in the papers, disavowed the principle; and, in Rhode Island, a member of the Society was expelled for taking advantage of the tender-law of that State, and paying off a bona fide debt with depreciated paper. I apprehend the principle of action still remains the same throughout the whole of the army. When the soldier conveyed his certificate, there was a contract between the parties, that whatever sum the Government could pay, the whole of it should go to the assignee. Now, by an act of violence, you take the half of it away, and enable the assignor to discharge the contract by paying fifty dollars, when he had engaged that the purchaser should receive one hundred. This is, in effect, the same as the payment of depreciated paper under a tender-law, and would be equally rejected by those whom it is intended to favor.

I would state the case, as if it had happened between the gentleman and myself, could he hesitate to say the whole sum was fairly mine, and surrender it up, notwithstanding the legal interference of the Government? This is a question I would not suffer myself to reason upon; I would not trust my mind with it, lest it should preponderate in favor of self-interest, though against the common principles of truth and justice. I cannot think the army would accept the interposition; we ought, therefore, to be cautious how we trifle with the honor of other people.

I do not pretend to say, that the persons intended to be relieved by the proposed scheme have not a claim against the United States; but I deny that it is a claim upon our equity or justice; it may be a claim upon our humanity; and, whether we will satisfy this claim, depends on circumstances which have no connection with the present question.

Mr. JACKSON.--God forbid, Mr. Chairman, that I should trifle with the honor of men I value, and esteem so highly; it would be the last thing I could think of. But, sir, as a Legislator, I cannot consent that the pittance which was the reward of distinguished services, shall be torn from them by the arts of insidious speculators; but there are others, who have a claim in equity upon our justice, who ought not to be sacrificed to the soldier's honor.

Mr. WHITE said he agreed with the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. SEDGWICK) in the principle, that if a contract is made for a valuable consideration, and with the understanding of both parties, the Legislature ought not to interfere in it; and should it appear that the transaction between the original holders of certificates and the purchasers was a fair one, the dispute, in his mind, was at an end. But no gentleman had attempted to show that this was the case, though all the arguments against a discrimination were founded on that supposition. Perhaps it might be said, that every argument ought to be considered as fair; unless the contrary be proved. But where one man has obtained the property of another to the amount of £100 for £10, or £12 10s. the transaction must be explained to him, before he would believe it to be honest. What is the present case? The original holders, who have parted with the evidences of their debts, were principally common soldiers, militiamen, and farmers in indigent circumstances. Who were the purchasers? The Secretary of the Treasury tells us, that the most enlightened among our citizens are the creditors of the United States; common soldiers cannot be comprehended in this description. What must have passed, he asked, between the soldier, the militiaman, or farmer, and the purchaser? What reason could the purchaser assign for offering £10 for a paper which specified an obligation to pay £100? It must be something like this--the States will never pay you; if they do, it will be at a very remote period, so long as to be useless to you; but to relieve your present necessities, I will take the risk on myself, and give you £10. Now, could any enlightened man, he asked, in 1783, or at any subsequent period, in which time the transfers took place, believe that the independence of America was in danger, or that the debts could not be provided for?

He knew so many instances of transactions like that which he had stated, that he doubted not the greater part of the certificates had been obtained by similar means. Indeed he could not conceive any other by which they could be obtained.

He said we were, perhaps, without a precedent in any other nation which would be strictly applicable; but he desired gentlemen to determine for themselves, whether, under such circumstances, the man who had rendered services to his country should be deprived of his reward, or whether the purchaser ought to receive it. He said it was very different in the common transactions of life. If a man purchased a tract of land for £1,000, paid the money, and took a bond for the conveyance, a third person, by informing the purchaser that the seller could not make a title, or by other false suggestions should obtain a transfer of the bond in consideration of £100, and get a conveyance and possession of the land, yet, on repaying the £100, the conveyance would be set aside, and he would be restored to his land.

He gave some other instances of a similar nature, and said, he believed, if a bond, whether due, or to become due, was assigned under such circumstances, that the obligee would be justifiable in contesting it in a court of law, and that the injured person would, on application, obtain redress. He said, that in cases of extreme hardship, Courts of Equity would give relief without express proof of fraud; that this was the law of Great Britain, and was agreeable to the principles of the civil law; that the Roman jurists, he believed, had fixed the point of extreme hardship to one half of the value of the property transferred; in England the court was to judge.

He said he did not think the present holders were strictly entitled to any thing more than the original purchasers; that here the maxim, quoted on the other side of the question, that the assignee stands in the shoes of the assignor, properly applied. You cannot place another on more advantageous ground than that on which you stand yourself. The plea of an innocent purchaser could not take place; the nature of the transaction must appear evident to every man concerned in the transfer.

He said the reverse of this did not hold. An assignee was not always in as advantageous a situation as the assignor; and instanced the case of an executor who should obtain the assignment of his testator's bond at an undervalue; and who, he said, could not retain in his hands the amount of the sum specified in the bond, which the creditor might have recovered, but only the sum which he actually paid for the bond.

He said, that, though in his opinion the present holders of certificates were strictly entitled to no more than what had been paid to the original holders, yet, as an investigation of that circumstance would be involved in inextricable difficulties, and since we were (as had been very properly observed and well expressed by a gentleman from South Carolina) settling the business of a family, he was willing to acquiesce in the motion of his colleague. He said, that arbitrators often gave the injured party less than his due, for peace sake; and he was willing to act on the same principle. He doubted not but courts of justice would give relief in particular cases; but in a matter of that magnitude, he thought the interference of the Legislature very proper. The South Sea business, he thought, in that respect, a good precedent. Two gentlemen had mentioned the business; he would not say they had misstated the transaction, but he thought their accounts imperfect. They said they had the documents under their hands; he wished they had been read; he had them not, but would state from memory what he thought applicable to the case in question. The directors of the South Sea Company, by various arts, induced the people to give as high as £1,000 for £100 stock; in many instances the money was paid, in others it was contracted to be paid. A gentleman has said, that Parliament interfered, not to violate, but to perfect the contract: but what did Parliament do? They confiscated the estates of the directors, and applied the amount to the relief of those who had actually paid their money, and suspended suits against those who had not paid; and authorized the debtors to discharge their debts by the payment of ten per cent. on the real value of the stock subscribed for. But if he was wrong in supposing the present holders ought to stand in the place of the first purchasers, they could be considered only as having purchased, in market, a paper of indefinite value; if, then, they get the highest market price, they are not injured.

He would now endeavor to obviate some of the objections to the measure, on account of its impracticability; and in general terms observed, that much greater pains had been taken to show the impracticability than the injustice of it. He said, if it was just, we ought to adopt it; and he did not doubt but the wisdom of the Legislature would be able to carry it into effect. Purchasers, he said, had been represented as the supporters of public credit; but he could not consider them in that light. The offering a tenth or an eighth part of the value of the bond of an individual would tend rather to blast his credit than to support it; it would have the same effect with respect to the public.

He said he had lived long enough to be convinced that wise and great men, having the same object in view, often differ in opinion with respect to the means of accomplishing it; therefore, every proposition ought to be treated with candor and respect. He made that observation in consequence of what passed yesterday. A gentleman from Massachusetts had introduced his speech in a manner somewhat new--with an apology for an impropriety which he intended to commit. He pursued the arguments of those who went before him, in opposition to the amendment; but his speech consisted principally in an effusion of opprobrious epithets, some of which he repeated, and said, to detail the whole would perhaps fill half a column of a newspaper. He said he felt, on the occasion, not for himself, for he had not expressed his sentiments on the subject under debate, but for the honor of the House, in which, he thought, no such language ought to be used.

It had been said we came forward as volunteers; that the original holders did not put in their claim. That might be easily accounted for; they were generally obscure and indigent; had too much modesty, or perhaps not the capacity, to come forward. That he believed the crowd in the gallery did not consist of original holders.

Mr. HARTLEY.--I do not wish to trespass upon the time of the committee, but I cannot consent to give a silent vote on this occasion. I mean, however, to confine myself to a few observations, as many of my ideas have been communicated by other gentlemen. The honorable gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) has anticipated much of what I had to urge; I shall therefore reduce my view of the subject to two points; first, as to the justice or legality of the measure, in obliging a creditor, or assignee, to take less than a certificate expresses, and pay the difference to another: second, as to the practicability or policy of the motion and its consequences.

As to making further satisfaction to the officers and soldiers of the late army, who have sold their certificates for an inconsiderable sum, and who have in consequence reaped a less reward than the Government contracted for, and intended them, I conceive it has nothing to do with the present question. However, if there is a disposition in Congress to make a further compensation to those brave and meritorious men, I would be among the first to support the measure; but I think this a subject too momentous to be involved collaterally in the question now under consideration.

With respect to the first point that offers itself, I have to remark, that a man who enters into a contract should know the consideration, and understand the principles upon which it is made, and these should be expressed on the face of the evidence of the contract. Now, if this contract be of a negotiable nature, the person to whom the same is offered, looks on its face, from which it discovers the agrementum, and is naturally led to consider the circumstances of the debtor, his ability and integrity. Suppose even the evidence of the contract to be obtained by fraud, unless it be against the express provision of a statute, and is transferred to a third person for a valuable consideration, without notice of fraud, it, must be paid. A fraud in any link of the chain is corrected by a bona fide transfer for a valuable consideration, without a knowledge of that circumstance by the purchaser.

Now, let us apply these principles to the present case. Here is an instrument of writing, specifying a debt to be due from the United States to the original holder, or bearer; this being brought into market, is offered to a third person, he, before his purchase, sees that the contract was executed in consequence of a consideration, and not against any positive statute; he then inquires the ability of the Union, and its disposition to comply with the contract; and, from a consideration of these circumstances, he concludes, with respect to his own interest and safety in the purchase, and pays what is conceived to be the value. What is there to discharge the Government from the payment? Is it pretended that the services and supplies were an inadequate compensation? If it even was so supposed, it would not authorize us to refuse a compliance with our engagements; any interference would set afloat the great principle upon which the public tranquillity and happiness depend. This leads me to consider the subject in my second point of view, with respect to its policy and practicability, and the consequences that would result from the attempt.

There are but few original holders who have transferred, that can be found; of consequence, you would throw the major part of the debt into an intricate labyrinth. The present possessor would be shifting back the certificate to the original holder, as far as a latitude is given. Many persons who were bare trustees, would be reaping advantages, and drawing money from the Public Treasury, to which they are not entitled; oaths would be multiplied on oaths; perjuries on perjuries; fraud upon fraud; and every species of speculation would ensue; deception would be a strong trait in the character of the times, and the whole of the United States would be in motion, each endeavoring to prey upon the other. The consequences of a second inundation of this nature are to be dreaded, and ought to be carefully avoided.

Mr. MOORE observed, that it was agreed on all hands, and proposed in the report of the Secretary, that some discrimination ought to take place. It was, therefore, incumbent on the House to inquire how this might be effected with the greatest degree of equity. He supposed the result would be, that we are at liberty to pay the most meritorious first. Who constituted this class of citizens? He trusted the late army had an incontrovertible title to it. He could never believe that the men who stripped the soldiers of their hard earnings, by allowing them a tenth of their claim, would have the temerity to pretend that they had acquired the title of merit with their money, and that the soldier relinquished, with his certificate, the honor of his corps.

Had the present question been agitated in the hour of distress, when an army was essential to our defence, the arguments of justice and equity would have had their weight. Perhaps it is the soldier's misfortune, that the question arises at a time when the object for which he was employed is secured. But notwithstanding all that has been said, I am fully convinced that his claim is insuperable in equity. The soldier did not engage to fight your battles to be compensated with a certificate, acknowledging you were indebted to him; it was specie you promised, and specie he had a right to expect, or something equal to it in reality. The public faith was actually pledged to him for a compensation for his services; but will any one say the public faith was inviolably kept with him, when a certificate, worth but two shillings in the pound was forced upon him as specie? The poor soldier, thus situated, was followed by gangs of speculators, who endeavored to impose on his judgment by the relation of artful and insidious opinions of the public capacity and integrity in the discharge of these acknowledgments. The soldier, incapable of detecting the specious falsehood, swallows the bait, and becomes the easy prey of designing men. The people felt and resented the injuries thus perpetrated on those they esteemed; and I am much mistaken if the citizens of America do not still retain favorable impressions of the soldiers' services.

A great deal has been said, with respect to public opinion on this question. It is impossible, perhaps, to ascertain the public mind with precision; but there is but one way in our power, that is, to suffer the subject to be suspended for the present session, and on our return, or the election of our successors, the public sentiment in this respect will be evinced; but if we are to determine the public mind from our own observation, I should not hesitate to say that nine out of ten would be in favor of a discrimination. The people would, on this principle, I conceive, submit cheerfully to the payment of those taxes which are requisite to discharge the public engagements; but if they are to flow into the large cities, or into the hands of foreigners, who have speculated upon the misfortunes of the most meritorious class of our citizens, they will bear the burthen with murmurs and complaints.

Can any principle of justice demand the payment of the present possessor of a certificate, that does not apply more forcibly as it respects original holders? Will gentlemen, then, comply with the one, and neglect the other? Or rather, as my colleague has proposed, if they are incapable to pay both, will they not prefer a composition?

Mr. WADSWORTH.--It appears to me that we have mistaken this business from the beginning, for we are proceeding as if it was taken for granted that all those who had alienated their certificates, have been compelled to it by necessity; there is nothing further from the truth. So far as it respects the army debt it may be just; and at this moment, were a soldiery to be paid in certificates, they would part with them at as great a discount as ever. There is a disposition in soldiers generally to despise pecuniary considerations; if they want money, they will dispose of their property at an inconsiderate value to obtain it. But this remark does not extend to the industrious part of the public creditors, because they have carefully retained the evidences of their debt, and now will receive its value. But even of the army, it is not true that they will suffer the loss of the discount at which their certificates have been sold. Having an opportunity of being well acquainted with the circumstances of the army, I know that many of the officers lived upon their friends, who supported them from time to time, with such sums as they had occasion for, and when they retired from the army, they repaid their friends with the certificates which they had received. The best way for gentlemen to ascertain the amount of the public debt which has been transferred from necessity, is to mix in the world, and try, from the circle of their acquaintance, to learn what the actual transfers have been. I have done this, and am conscious within myself, that seven-eighths of all the alienated debt has not been disposed of by the original holder from necessity.

When the requisitions of Congress were rejected by the State Assemblies, some of the most wealthy persons of the community, and those most violently opposed to Continental measures, seemed to concur in the opinion, that the States would never raise a revenue for the purpose of paying the domestic debt. The people finding this a prevailing opinion, were impressed with a dread of its consequences, and sold this species of negotiable property at a rate dictated by their apprehensions. I should conceive it as a great evil, if the Government were now to restore to such persons what they lost for want of confidence. I think this circumstance will operate considerably against the gentleman's principle of equity; now, as to the practicability of the measure, those gentlemen who are acquainted with the history of the manner in which the public debt was contracted, will readily agree with me, that it is an insuperable objection. In the years 1776 and 1777, very few advances were made to those who procured supplies to the public; they purchased what they got generally upon credit, and they were obliged, before their accounts could be settled, and they could get their money from the Public Treasury, to get receipts for all the articles they had furnished, and then they received orders upon the loan-officers, who, not having money, paid them in certificates, which these people, in return, paid over to those who furnished them with supplies. So that the agent appears a creditor to a very considerable amount, when his personal claim is very trifling, and those who risked their property, without pay of any kind, and who are undoubtedly deserving of some credit, appeared to be no other than speculators in public securities. I cannot see, in this case, any possible mode of discrimination. There are a variety of other official transactions which would demonstrate the impracticability, if it was necessary to oppose the proposition on that ground.

WEDNESDAY, February 17.

Public Credit.

The House again went into a committee on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. PAGE.--I do not wish to trouble the committee with a formal argument in favor of the motion offered by my colleague; but I wish to inquire of the gentlemen in opposition, whether they conceive the principles upon which it is grounded to be unjust? I observed, that their replies have generally gone against the practicability of the measure; but that does not prove to me that it is inequitable. If there is justice in the case, we must not consider the difficulty of the attempt. I trust, if it shall be found to stand on the foundation of immutable justice, that its practicability will be demonstrated. However, I shall not enter on that ground, but leave it to my colleague, who has so ably supported it on the other.

I would, however, beg gentlemen to answer these questions, and show to my mind the injustice of the United States complying with their engagements made to the first holders of certificates, as far as the case, and their abilities, will permit. Or where is the justice of doing more for the assignee than he, or his assignor, expected could or would be done? Where is the breach of faith in Government, if it pays its whole debt, with a justice, blended with mercy, resembling that of Heaven itself, making impartial retribution among the children of men, on the great day of accounts? Where is the propriety of branding a measure of this nature with epithets of infamy? or using such harsh expressions as have issued like a torrent from a gentleman on the other side of the House? So far am I from viewing the propositions through such a discolored medium, that I am induced to believe, if Congress adopt it, they may submit its rectitude, and stand the decision, of not only a superior order of beings, but of the Great Judge of the Universe, who is immutable truth itself.

What will the assignee lose by the measure? He will lose nothing, but the sanguine expectation lately raised in his mind.

Where is the interference in contracts, when the proposition is to comply sacredly, as far as the case will admit, with the contract between the State and its creditors? Is not the assignment of the certificates confirmed by the nation? Does it not give to the assignee the very thing stipulated between the assignor and assignee, that is, whatever sum the Government shall be pleased to pay for the certificate? And is not the sum now proposed, more than either the first or last assignee ever contemplated, till within a few days past, would ever be paid him?

The time is now arrived when justice ought to be done; it is looked for, with anxious expectation, by all classes of our fellow citizens; it will not avail us to say, it is impracticable, until experience has demonstrated it to be so. But the measure we contend for is termed an ex post facto law, and as such, is declared to be unconstitutional. Gentlemen torture every thing, in order to produce evidence against an act of justice. How can it be such an ex post facto law as is prescribed by the constitution, when that expression is conjunctive with a bill of attainder? It relates to that only, and can have no reference to the subject of the proposition before us. The same idea, which prevents us from an interference on the present occasion, will prevent us, as was observed by the gentleman from Georgia, from making a statute of limitation, or from correcting any frauds, which have been perpetrated on the unsuspicious soldiery. We must not contemplate the restoration of the starving soldier, with his humble wife and numerous and naked offspring, to a more eligible situation; we must not restore confidence to the man of honor who is buried in abject poverty, because it is addressing a language to the heart, which the haughtiness of the head disdains to hear; but, in doubtful cases of justice, the heart is the best director on this subject; happy will it be for us, if, as I think, they both concur to give their approbation to the present measure.

THURSDAY, February 18.

Public Credit.

The House again went into a committee on the Secretary of the Treasury's report, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. STONE.--I shall not attempt to show the importance of the subject before us, as it relates to public credit; or as it will affect our character as a nation, at home and abroad. These have been explained; but it is proper for us to consider how far the amendment may operate to establish a precedent of Continental and State Legislation, the influence it may have on society, and the rules of civil conduct between man and man. Every community must experience that the conduct of the Government will influence the opinions of the individuals; and the spirit of the individual will transfuse itself into the Government. This action and reaction operates more powerfully in a Republican Government, founded on representation, than on any other.

Our situation is made more important, on the present occasion, by a disagreement on principles which ought to be fixed and plain; to me it seems that we differ on the principle of public justice. This may be unfortunate--let us endeavor to be reconciled. If the true distinction between natural and civil justice be accurately drawn, we may annihilate the point in contest. Agreeably to the principle of natural justice, no contract is perfect unless there be an equivalent; and that which we call a valuable consideration, on which to ground a contract, is founded on the idea of an equivalent, and presupposes it. And, I believe the idea of such a consideration being an equivalent, is the foundation of the validity of a contract, even in the English law; and is always carried into effect, wherever the execution is safe and certain; because I think, whenever it appears in any court of justice, that the consideration was not an equivalent, that then the contract is not carried into execution. The execution of the principle of natural justice then is safe; for instance, £99 19_s._ 11_d._ is not a consideration for £100, but a small sum may be a consideration for a valuable property; this does not arise from an infraction of the principle; but because the property may not have a determinate value in the society; and it would make judges arbitrary, legal proceedings extremely expensive, and contracts uncertain, if an extensive discretion as to the value was admitted. But whenever the consideration is so small and inadequate, as to appear so plainly and satisfactorily that the judge cannot be mistaken in determining it not to be an equivalent, there the contract is not valid.

Now, if we have received services from the soldier, and have given him paper, the question will be, whether that was an equivalent, and the paper a proper payment; or whether it is only an evidence of the debt? I take it to be a granted point that it was not a payment, but an obligation to pay whenever the United States should be able. It appears to me, then, that it was the duty of the person who received the paper, to wait a reasonable time; and the duty of the nation to make actual payment as speedily as possible. If the person who had received this paper had wantonly parted with it for nothing, I agree we should have been under no more obligation to pay him the expressed sum, than if we had paid him money, and he had flung it away or wasted it; but if, on the contrary, there was a delay in the execution of the contract, on the part of the Government, which compelled him to part with it, a compensation is equitable.

The same rule will apply between the original holder, or person who rendered the service, and present possessor or assignee; for shortness we will distinguish them by the names of soldier and speculator. The speculator, when he dealt with the soldier, must, from the nature of the thing, have induced him to believe that he gave him an equivalent for his purchase; and it might have been an inducement to the soldier to sell, to think he had something more than an equivalent; the speculator thought he had more than an equivalent, throwing necessity on the one side, and fraud on the other, out of the question. Then the confidence was equal, perhaps not a penny between them: I can hardly conceive the exchange took place on any other terms. You never can allow the confidence of the speculator to be estimated very highly, perhaps at not more than one for ten. For if it is admitted, that the speculator had entire confidence, he was guilty of a palpable fraud, and a violation of the first principle of justice; it amounted to this, that he gave £10 in money for £100 bond, which he was certain would be paid. I believe, if the case stood exactly in this form, no man would hesitate in deciding its illegality. If a man takes £100 for £10, it is illegal; but suppose there was a risk, and this risk was considered by the speculator as little less than ten for one, has he not discovered his own mistake when he sees he gets an interest of sixty per cent. on his capital; and that capital tenfold? This contract then ought to be void on the principle of a mistake; and here you place the speculator between Scylla and Charybdis. If he really thought the certificates only worth one for ten, you can give him no credit for his confidence; and you will admit that he ought to be satisfied with a reasonable advance on his purchase. But if you give him entire credit for his confidence in Government, you must give him no credit for his honesty. If both parties had known of this event, the contract would never have taken place. If you pay the whole sum, the speculator ought to take no more than what he gave a fair equivalent for. Gentlemen who seem afraid of giving to the soldier a part of his original claim, lest they affront his nobleness of soul, make no scruple to offer the speculator ten times the sum he is entitled to, on the principle of natural justice, without any apprehension that his honor will receive a wound. If the claim of the soldier was extinguished by receiving two shillings in the pound of the speculator, upon what principle is it contended that the latter should receive more than distributive justice? Arguments, proving that the justice due to the first has been satisfied by what has been done, apply with greater force to the latter.

It has been doubted, and a question has been agitated, whether we shall exercise the power of reconsidering these contracts, and whether a modification is constitutionally in our power? I will not go into this subject, or any other which ought to be taken for granted. I shall take it, that we are authorized, and do mean to interfere; you must act. Do you mean to pay the principal and interest now due? I believe not. Will you shelter yourself under the plea of necessity? That is impossible. I dare say, if the United States were sold, they would at least be worth six hundred millions of dollars; and we have but eighty millions to provide for. Having, then, the means and power, I trust you mean to exercise them; and as you exercise them, you ought to exercise them as justly as possible; then, to do this, you will, it is said, personify the three parties concerned--the United States, the original holder, and the speculator. I do not clearly comprehend the idea of a personified State; perhaps it arises from my dulness of apprehension. Man, in his natural capacity, is sometimes obliged to do what is considered unjust; but a State, when it has power, is not obliged to do what is unjust. The State, then, in this respect, is doing what an honest man would do, if he had the power of conducting this business as he thought proper.

The speculator comes to you with his bond, and tells you it is due. The soldier tells you that he has done services to a considerable amount, for which he never has been paid; and that those evidences of the demand which you gave to him, were obtained from him, for one-tenth part of what they were declared to be worth. The State says to the speculator, you have made a great deal, and out of a man who has risked his life, and borne every burthen which human nature could bear, with the greatest fortitude which the most virtuous heart is capable of exerting, let him have a part back. The speculator answers no; here is your bond. Consider again, replies the State, that the veteran's services, at the expense of his health and property, at the risk of his life, has saved you and yours; and not only that, but he is obliged to pay of your demand, more than he has ever received. What is now his answer? Here is the bond, pay me my bond. Under these circumstances, supposing the State an individual, he might, without much infamy to his character, exercise the power which he has over his own bond, in order to do justice between the parties. He might say to the speculator, you had the soldier in your power; you did him injustice; we have you now in our power, we will do you complete justice, but no more. A private man could never be injured in his reputation by such conduct: indeed, according to the result of these circumstances, the hardships of war, and the breach of contract, have unfortunately inflicted upon the man, the most meritorious in this community, or perhaps in any other community, sufferings and miseries--a punishment sufficient to atone for the guilt of the greatest crimes. This, in the event, appears to be the situation of the saviors of America.

Mr. Madison said that the opponents of his proposition had imposed on its friends not only a heavy task, by the number of their objections, but a delicate one by the nature of some of them. It had been arranged as an embarrassing measure which ought to be facilitated, and producing discussions which might end in disagreeable consequences. However painful it might be to contradict the wishes of gentlemen whom he respected, he could promise nothing more, in the present case, than his endeavors to disappoint their apprehensions. When his judgment could not yield to the propositions of others, the right to make and support his own, was a right which he could never suffer to be contested. In exercising it, he should study to maintain that moderation and liberality which were due to the greatness of the subject before the committee. He felt pleasure in acknowledging, that the like spirit had, in general, directed the arguments on the other side. Free discussions thus conducted are not only favorable to a right decision, but to a cheerful acquiescence of the mistaken opponents of it. They might have the further advantage of recommending the result to the public, by fully explaining the grounds of it. If the pretensions of a numerous and meritorious class of citizens be not well founded, or cannot be complied with, let them see that this is the case, and be soothed, under their disappointment, with the proof that they have not been overlooked by their country.

He would proceed now to review the grounds on which the proposition had been combated; which he should do without either following those who had wandered from the field of fair argument, or avoiding those who had kept within its limits.

It could not have escaped the committee, that the gentlemen to whom he was opposed, had reasoned on this momentous question as on an ordinary case in a court of law; that they had equally strained all the maxims that could favor the purchasing, or be adverse to the original holder; and that they dwelt with equal pleasure on every circumstance which could brighten the pretensions of the former, or discredit those of the latter. He had not himself attempted, nor did he mean to undervalue the pretensions of the actual holders. In stating them, he had even used as strong terms as they themselves could have dictated; but beyond a certain point he could not go. He must renounce every sentiment which he had hitherto cherished, before his complaisance could admit that America ought to erect the monuments of her gratitude, not to those who saved her liberties, but to those who had enriched themselves in her funds.

All that he wished was, that the claims of the original holders, not less than those of the actual holders, should be fairly examined and justly decided. They had been invalidated by nothing yet urged. A debt was fairly contracted; according to justice and good faith, it ought to have been paid in gold or silver; a piece of paper only was substituted. Was this paper equal in value to gold or silver? No. It was worth, in the market, which the argument for the purchasing holders makes the criterion, no more than one-eighth or one-seventh of that value. Was this depreciated paper freely accepted? No. The Government offered that or nothing. The relation of the individual to the Government, and the circumstances of the offer, rendered the acceptance a forced, not a free one. The same degree of constraint would vitiate a transaction between man and man, before any Court of Equity on the face of the earth. There are even cases where consent cannot be pretended; where the property of the planter or farmer had been taken at the point of the bayonet, and a certificate presented in the same manner. But why did the creditors part with their acknowledgment of the debt? In some instances, from necessity; in others, from a well-founded distrust of the public. Whether from the one, or the other, they had been injured; they had suffered loss, through the default of the debtor; and the debtor cannot, in justice or honor, take advantage of the default.

Here, then, was a debt acknowledged to have been once due, and which was never discharged; because the payment was forced and defective. The balance, consequently, is still due, and is of as sacred a nature as the claims of the purchasing holder can be; and if both are not to be paid in the whole, is equally entitled to payment in part.

He begged gentlemen would not yield too readily to the artificial niceties of forensic reasoning; that they would consider not the form, but the substance--not the letter, but the equity--not the bark, but the pith of the business. It was a great and an extraordinary case; it ought to be decided on the great and fundamental principles of justice. He had been animadverted upon, for appealing to the heart as well as the head; he would be bold, nevertheless, to repeat, that, in great and unusual questions of morality, the heart is the best judge.

It had been said, by a member from Massachusetts, that the proposition was founded on a new principle in Congress. If the present Congress be meant, that is not strange, for Congress itself is new; if the former Congress be meant, it is not true, for the principle is found in an act which had been already cited. After the pay of the army had, during the war, been nominally and legally discharged in depreciated paper, the loss was made up to the sufferers.

It had been said, by a member from New York, that this case was not parallel, there being no third party like the present holders of certificates. This objection could not be valid. The Government paid ten dollars' worth in fact, but only one to the soldier. The soldier was then the original holder. The soldier assigned it to the citizen; the citizen then became the actual holder. What was the event? The loss of the original holder was repaired, after the actual holder had been settled with, according to the highest market value of his paper.

He did not mean, however, to decide on the whole merits of this last transaction; or to contend for a similitude, in all respects, between the two kinds of paper. One material difference was, that the bills of credit, by more frequent transfers, and by dividing the change of value among a greater number of hands, rendered the effect of less consequence to individuals, and less sensible to the public mind. But this difference, whatever force it might give to the claims of the purchasing holder of certificates, could diminish nothing from the claims of the original holders who assigned them.

It had been said, by another member from Massachusetts, that the old Government did every thing in its power. It made requisitions, used exhortations, and in every respect discharged its duty; but it was to be remembered, that the debt was not due from the Government, but the United States. An attorney, with full powers to form, without the means to fulfil engagements, could never, by his ineffectual, though honest efforts, exonerate his principal.

He had been repeatedly reminded of the address of Congress in 1783, which rejected a discrimination between original and purchasing holders. At that period, the certificates to the army, and citizens at large, had not been issued. The transfers were confined to loan-office certificates, were not numerous, and had been, in great part, made with little loss to the original creditor. At present, the transfers extend to a vast proportion of the whole debt, and the loss to the original holders has been immense. The injustice which has taken place has been enormous and flagrant, and makes redress a great national object. This change of circumstances destroys the argument from the act of Congress referred to; but if implicit regard is to be paid to the doctrines of that act, any modification of the interest of the debt will be as inadmissible as a modification of the principal.

It had been said, that if the losses of the original creditors are entitled to reparation, Congress ought to repair those suffered from paper money--from the ravages of the war, and from the act of barring claims not produced within a limited time. As to the paper money, either the case is applicable, or it is not: if not applicable, the argument fails; if applicable, either the depreciated certificates ought to be liquidated by a like scale, as was applied to the depreciated money; or the money, even if the whole mass of it was still in circulation, ought to be literally redeemed, like the certificates. Leaving the gentleman to make his own choice of these dilemmas, he would only add, himself, that if there were no other difference between the cases, the manifest impossibility of redressing the one, and the practicability of redressing the other, was a sufficient answer to the objection. With respect to the towns burnt, and other devastations of war, it was taught, by the writers on the law of nations, that they were to be numbered among the inevitable calamities of mankind. Still, however, a Government owed them every alleviation which it could conveniently afford; but no authority could be found that puts on the same footing with those calamities, such as proceed from a failure to fulfil the direct and express obligations of the public. The just claims barred by the act of limitation, were, in his opinion, clearly entitled to redress. That act was highly objectionable. The public, which was interested in shortening the term, undertook to decide, that no claim, however just, should be admitted, if not presented within nine months. The act made none of the exceptions usual in such acts, not even in favor of the most distant parts of the Union. In many instances, it had been absolutely impossible for the persons injured to know of the regulation. Some of these instances were within his own knowledge. To limit the duration of a law to a period, within which it could not possibly be promulged, and then take advantage of the impossibility, would be imitating the Roman tyrant, who posted up his edicts so high that they could not be read, and then punished the people for not obeying them.

It has been said, that if the purchased certificates were funded at the rate proposed, they would fall in the market, and the holders be injured. It was pretty certain, that the greater part, at least, would be gainers. He believed that the highest market price, especially with the arrears of interest incorporated, well funded at six per cent, would prevent every loss that could justify complaint.

But foreigners had become purchasers, and ought to be particularly respected. Foreigners, he remarked, had themselves made a difference between the value of the foreign and domestic debt; they would, therefore, the less complain of a difference made by Government here. It was his opinion that the term stated in the proposition would yield a greater profit to the foreign purchasers than they could have got for their money if advanced by them in any of the funds of Europe.

The proposition had been charged with robbing one set of men to pay another. If there were robbery in the case, it had been committed on the original creditors. But, to speak more accurately, as well as more moderately, the proposition would do no more than withhold a part from each of two creditors, where both were not to be paid the whole.

A member from New York has asked whether an original creditor, who had assigned his certificate, could, in conscience, accept a reimbursement in the manner proposed? He would not deny that assignments might have been made with such explanations, or under such circumstances, as would have that effect; but, in general, the assignments have been made with reference merely to the market value, and the uncertainty of the steps that might be taken by the Government. The bulk of the creditors had assigned under circumstances from which no scruples could arise. In all cases where a scruple existed, the benefit of the provision might be renounced. He would, in turn, ask the gentleman, whether there was not more room to apprehend that the present holder, who had got his certificate of a distressed and meritorious fellow-citizen for one-eighth or one-tenth its ultimate value, might not feel some remorse in retaining so unconscionable an advantage?

Similar propositions, it was said, had been made and rejected in the State Legislatures. This was not a fact. The propositions made in the State Legislatures were not intended to do justice to the injured, but to seize a profit to the public.

But no petitions for redress had come from the sufferers. Was merit, then, to be the less regarded, because it was modest? Perhaps, however, another explanation ought to be given. Many of the sufferers were poor and uninformed. Those of another description were so dispersed, that their interests and efforts could not be brought forward. The case of the purchasing holders was very different.

The constitutionality of the proposition had been drawn into question. He asked whether words could be devised that would place the new Government more precisely in the same relation to the real creditors with the old? The power was the same; the obligation was the same. The means only were varied.

An objection had been drawn from the article prohibiting ex post facto laws. But as ex post facto laws relate to criminal, not civil cases, the constitution itself requires this definition, by adding to a like restriction on the States an express one against retrospective laws of a civil nature.

It had been said, that foreigners had been led to purchase, by their faith in the article of the constitution relating to the public debts. He would answer this objection by a single fact: Foreigners had shown, by the market price in Europe, that they trusted the nature of foreign debt more under the old Government, than the nature of the domestic debt under the new Government.

Objections to the measure had been drawn from its supposed tendency to impede public credit. He thought it, on the contrary, perfectly consistent with the establishment of public credit. It was in vain to say, that Government ought never to revise measures once decided. Great caution on this head ought, no doubt, to be observed; but there were situations in which, without some legislative interposition, the first principles of justice, and the very ends of civil society, would be frustrated. The gentlemen themselves had been compelled to make exceptions to the general doctrine; they would probably make more before the business was at an end.

It had been urged, that if Government should interpose in the present case, as interposition would be authorized in any case whatever where the stock might fluctuate, the principle would apply as well to a fall of sixty or seventy per cent. as to a fall of six hundred or seven hundred per cent. He could not admit this inference. A distinction was essential between an extreme case, and a case short of it. The line was difficult to be drawn; but it was no more incumbent on him than on his opponents to draw it. They themselves could not deny that a certain extremity of the evil would have justified the interposition. Suppose that the distress of the alienating creditors had been ten times as great as it was; that instead of two, three, and four shillings in the pound, they had received a farthing only in the pound; and that the certificates lay now in the hands of the purchasers in that state, or even at a less value, was there a member who would rise up and say, that the purchasers ought to be paid the entire nominal sum, and the original sufferer be entitled to no indemnification whatever?

Gentlemen had triumphed in the want of a precedent to the measure. No government, it was said, had interposed to redress fluctuations in its public paper. But where was the government that had funded its debts under the circumstances of the American debt? If no government had done so, there could be no precedent either for or against the measure, because the occasion itself was unprecedented. And if no similar occasion had before existed in any country, the precedent to be set would at least be harmless, because no similar occasion would be likely to happen in this.

If gentlemen persisted, however, in demanding precedents, he was happy in being able to gratify them with two, which, though not exactly parallel, were, on that account, of the greater force, since the interposition of Government had taken place where the emergency could less require them.

The first was the case of the Canada bills. During the war which ended in 1763, and which was attended with a revolution of the Government in Canada, the supplies obtained for the French army in that province were paid for in bills of exchange and certificates. This paper depreciated, and was bought up chiefly by British merchants. The sum and the depreciation were so considerable as to become a subject of negotiation between France and Great Britain at the peace. The negotiations produced a particular article, by which it was agreed by France that the paper ought to be redeemed, and admitted by Great Britain that it should be redeemed at a liquidated value. In the year 1766 this article was accordingly carried into effect by ministers from the two courts, which reduced the paper in the hands of the British holders, in some instances, as much as seventy-five per cent. below its nominal value. It was stated, indeed, by the reporter of the case, that the holders of the paper had themselves concurred in the liquidation; but it was not probable that the concurrence was voluntary. If it was voluntary, it shows that they themselves were sensible of the equity of the sacrifice.

The other case was of still greater weight, as it had no relation to war or treaty, and took place in the nation which has been held up as a model with respect to public credit. In the year 1713, the civil list of Great Britain had fallen into arrears to the amount of £500,000. The creditors who had furnished supplies to the Government had, instead of money, received debentures only from the respective officers. These had depreciated. In that state, they were assigned in some instances; in others, covenanted to be assigned. When the Parliament appropriated funds for satisfying these arrears, they inserted an express provision in the act, that the creditors who had been obliged, by the default of Government, to dispose of their paper at a loss, might redeem it from the assignees by repaying the actual price, with an interest of six per cent., and that all agreements and covenants to assign should be absolutely void. Here then was an interposition on the very principle, that a Government ought to redress the wrongs sustained by its default, and on an occasion trivial when compared to that under consideration; yet it does not appear that the public credit of the nation was injured by it.

The best source of confidence in Government was the apparent honesty of its views. The proposition could not possibly be ascribed to any other motive than this, because the public was not to gain a farthing by it. The next source was an experienced punctuality in the payments due from the Government. For this support to public credit, he relied on what had been experienced by a part of the foreign creditors; on the provision to be made for the residue; and on the punctuality which, he flattered himself, would be observed in all future payments of the domestic creditors. He was more apprehensive of injury to public credit from such modifications of the interest of the public debt as some gentlemen seemed to have in view. In these the public would be the gainer, and the plea of inability the more alarming, because it was so easy to set up, so difficult to be disproved, and for which, consequently, the temptations would be so alluring.

Mr. SENEY rose and observed, that it was with reluctance he attempted to express to the committee his ideas upon a question which had been so fully and ably discussed. However, as it had been expected that gentlemen would not, in a case of such magnitude, be content with merely a silent vote, he rose to declare the reasons upon which his decision was founded. In doing this, he hoped that he should not use epithets which might be deemed harsh, or language which would be offensive; that although the sentiments of other members should differ from his, he wished so far to respect those sentiments as to treat them with decency.

He considered the proposition of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) was designed to effect two purposes: the one, a compensation to the original creditors, who, during the late war, in times of distress, had loaned money, furnished supplies, and rendered military services; and who had only received satisfaction therefor in paper of inconsiderable value, forced on them by the public, and depreciated by their acts. This class of citizens, he conceived, had a just and equitable claim for the full difference in value between that paper, when paid, and specie. The other object of the proposition alluded to, was, he said, to compensate those creditors who now hold alienated certificates. Each description of those creditors had, in his opinion, claims on the public. The first was founded on an original contract between them and the Government, part of which only had been complied with, and the residue still remained undischarged. The other was grounded on having possession of the paper which contained the promise to pay.

It has been contended that the United States have not ability to pay both. In this case a question arises: What is, upon the whole, most just and expedient? Some gentlemen contend, that it is incumbent on us to make full provision for those who hold the assigned certificates, without any for the original creditors who have alienated them. Others think, that the misfortune of Government, in this respect, should not be felt by either class solely, but be borne by both. That it is more just to adopt a mode of composition, by which those creditors should mutually share in this misfortune, and be mutually benefited by a provision within our power to make; with those his sentiments accorded. He could not be impressed with the justice or reason of a measure calculated to make a total sacrifice of one class of creditors, and full payment to the other class. Such a step could not, in his opinion, be justified in any distinction or precedence which existed in their claims. When it was considered that the original creditors furnished money and supplies, and rendered services essential to the preservation of their country, and at a time when its liberties were invaded, and every thing which can be dear to freemen was in jeopardy and at stake, he could not apprehend that their claims would be deemed inferior to those of their rivals. In his opinion, these circumstances entitled them to superior notice. Believing, however, that the amendment under consideration would, upon the whole, effect more substantial justice than any other practicable scheme that had been proposed to the committee, or which he had heard of, his assent would, therefore, be given to it.

TUESDAY, February 19.

Public Credit.

The House again went into a committee on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. LIVERMORE said he was against any discrimination between the soldier and other public creditor, who held a public security, made payable to bearer, and consequently transferable, with intent that they might be sold, if convenience or necessity should require it. This had been understood by all parties, as well in America as in foreign countries, and they had been sold accordingly. The advocates for discrimination have not denied this; they have only alleged that the low rate at which the poor soldier or other public creditor had sold his securities was a sufficient reason for Congress to interfere and set aside the sale. In opposition to this, he observed, that persons had a right to buy and sell at such prices as they could mutually agree upon, provided there was no fraud.

A diamond, a horse, or a lot of ground, might be sold too cheap, or too dear, and so might any other property; but Government could not interfere without destroying the general system of law and justice. Esau had sold his birthright for a mess of pottage, and heaven and earth had confirmed the sale. The distresses of the army, both officers and soldiers, at the time they received and sold their securities, had been painted in too strong colors. They were not so emaciated by sickness and famine as had been represented. They were crowned with victory, and received with applause by their fellow-citizens; and although they had been paid in paper, their loss had been made up by large bounties, and in other emoluments; so that, in point of property, they were equal to their fellow-citizens who had borne the burden of taxes under which many are laboring to this day. Let them be called brave soldiers, patriotic soldiers, but not poor soldiers. They ought to be governed by the same system of justice that governs others; but their contracts ought not to be set aside out of partiality to them. The case quoted from the statute of Queen Anne is not applicable to this case, inasmuch as Government had not originally made the debentures therein mentioned transferable. Neither did the case of the Canada bills apply; for, as he understood, those bills were paid to British merchants and to others who had purchased them.

Mr. MADISON.--If paper, or the honor of statues or medals can discharge the debts of justice, payable in gold or silver, we can not only exonerate ourselves from those due to the original holders, but from those of the assignees. So far as paper goes, the latter have received the compensation. If honor can discharge the debt, they have received civil honors; look around to the officers of every Government in the Union, and you find them sharing equal honors with those bestowed on the original creditors. But, sir, the debt due in gold and silver is not payable either in honor, appointments, or in paper.

Gentlemen say it will work injustice; but are we not as much bound to repair the injustice done by the United States? Yet I do not believe the assertion has been established by any thing that has been urged in its support. The gentleman from Maryland (Mr. STONE) acknowledges that there is a moral obligation to compensate the original holders; how will they get what he admits is their due? He is willing to make an effort, by applying the resources of the country to that purpose; but if we are to judge by the sentiments of other gentlemen who have spoken on this occasion, we have little to expect from that quarter. Suppose the debt had depreciated to a mere trifle, and suppose the sale of the Western Territory had extinguished the certificates, let me ask, whether, if the United States had thus exonerated themselves from the obligation to the assignee, whether the claim of the original holder would not still remain in its full force in a moral view? But believing the point of justice to be exhausted, I will just add one remark upon the practicability. The transferred certificates, generally, will show the names of the original holders, and here there is no difficulty. With respect to those granted to the heads of either of the five great departments, the books of the Treasurer of Loans, as well as the accounts of those departments now in the Treasury, will designate, with a great degree of accuracy, and this may be followed up by the usual mode of obtaining evidence; and I believe every security may be provided against fraud in this case that was provided in the case of the commissioners who were sent into the respective States for ascertaining and liquidating the claims of individuals. That there will be some difficulty I admit, but it is enough for me that it is not insuperable; and I trust, with the assistance which the cause of equity and justice will ever obtain from the members of the National Legislature, they will easily be surmounted.

MONDAY, February 22.

Public Credit.

The House then resolved itself into a committee on the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. BALDWIN in the chair.

Mr. MADISON's proposition still under consideration.

Mr. PAGE.--As the worthy and eloquent member who replied to me did not answer the questions I put to the committee, I suppose, he either did not hear them, did not understand me, or could not answer them. I hope, before the committee decide, they will attempt at least to resolve them. I asked, where is the injustice of the State's complying with its engagements made to the first holders of certificates as far as the case admits? Where is the justice of doing more for the assignee than he or his assignor expected could or would be done? Where is the breach of faith in Government, if it paid its whole debt with justice, blended with mercy? Where is the interference in contracts, when the proposition is to comply sacredly, as far as the case will admit, with the contracts between a State and its creditors? I asked, is not the assignment of certificates confirmed by the motion? Does it not give to the assignee the very thing stipulated to be given, that is, whatever sum Government shall be pleased to pay for the certificates, for that was the condition of the assignment? And is not the sum now proposed more than either the first or last holder, till within these few days, supposed would be paid him? I asked also, ought not an honest assignee to be pleased that Government intends to do that justice to his assignor which he ought to do himself, were the whole payment made to him? I asked, of what is the assignee deprived but of his late sanguine expectations? I asked, whether the proposition before us does not rather establish confidence in Government than the contrary? For, sir, to make use of the comparison which has been often made here between the State and an obligor on a bond, what could give more credit to any man's bonds than to find that, though they had depreciated to half a crown in the pound, he paid the whole twenty shillings; ten shillings to the assignee, who had given but two shillings and sixpence, and ten to the obligee who had sold at so great a loss?

It is true Congress may, consistently with the rules of common law courts, pay the bearer and take no notice of the creditors; but were a Court of Equity instituted to decide on the case of certain speculators, how would they decide? Government, in the most solemn manner, pledged itself to make compensation to the soldiers, have they done it? Instead of doing this, certain persons, who took advantage of their ignorance and their poverty, bought up the evidence of their debt at one-eighth of the nominal value; and in some States these very men had drawn what constituted the principal of the purchase with six per cent. interest in three years.

In what does the case differ between the depreciated paper and the certificates? Paper money was redeemed at forty for one, as well to the last as the first holder; the same principle would lead to give the last holder of the certificate the depreciated value at which he bought it. But we propose to work no injustice, we give the first holder, if he is the holder still, the full value stipulated. It would not be injustice to consider the assignee, as having paid what he advanced, in consequence of his confidence in Government, on account of that Government; and that the Government ought to repay him what he so advanced; having repaid that sum, the balance ought to go to the credit of the assignee. I am willing, on this consideration, to call the speculator the friend and supporter of the Government, who kindly lent us when in need, two shillings and sixpence in every pound, to advance to the poor soldier. If certificates are the evidence of the debt, it proves, sir, that the balance is due to him in whose name it issued. This is the day of payment, and we must pay accordingly; and here permit me to remark, in reply to the observation of the gentleman from New Hampshire, (Mr. LIVERMORE,) that Jacob was punished for his fraud, but for his faith enjoyed the promise; even so let us regard those who had so much confidence in us as to advance two shillings and sixpence to the distressed soldier.

Mr. HEISTER was in hopes this question would be postponed for the present, in order to go into a consideration of the ways and means: when, if it appeared that the United States were incapable of making full provision, it might be considered, whether one deviation would not authorize the other? If any gentleman would make a motion to that effect, he would second him.

The question was now taken on Mr. MADISON's proposition for a composition, and it passed in the negative; yeas 13, nays 36.[35]

WEDNESDAY, March 17.

On Slavery.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Report of the committee, to whom was referred the memorial of the people called Quakers, &c., Mr. BENSON in the chair.

The question of order was put, when it was determined that Mr. TUCKER's last amendment was not in order.

The report was then taken up by paragraphs. The first proposition being read,

Mr. WHITE moved that it be struck out. He did this, he said, because he was against entering into a consideration at this time of the powers of Congress. He thought it would be time enough for this when the powers are called in question. He then read the next, which he said was entirely unnecessary, as it contains nothing more than what is contained in express terms in the constitution. He passed on to the third, which he said was equally unnecessary; and to the fourth, which was provided for by the constitution. He said, that he should agree to the fifth and sixth, with certain modifications. Agreeable to this idea, he offered those two in a different form. He disagreed to the seventh proposition, as unnecessary and improper. He concluded by observing, that his wish was to promote the happiness of mankind--and among the rest those who are the objects of the present consideration--but this he wished to do in conformity to the principles of justice and with a due regard to the peace and happiness of others; he would contribute all in his power to their comfort and well-being while in a state of slavery; but he was fully of opinion that Congress has no right to interfere in the business, any further than he proposed by the two propositions as modified. He did not, however, anticipate the difficulties from a total prohibition which some gentlemen seem to apprehend--and if Congress had it in their power to interdict this business at the present moment, he did not think the essential interests of the Southern States would suffer. Twenty years ago, he supposed the idea he now suggested would have caused universal alarm. Virginia, however, about twelve years since, prohibited the importation of negroes from Africa, and the consequences apprehended never were realized; on the contrary, the agriculture of that State was never in a more flourishing situation.

Mr. HARTLEY.--I have the honor to be one of the committee on the memorials, and will, with the leave of this committee, mention some particulars which took place in the course of the investigation of the business. He premised that he was sorry that the question of right had been brought forward yesterday--and was not a little surprised to hear the cause of slavery advocated in that House, and language held towards the petitioners which his experience had never shown to be Parliamentary--he read some memorandums taken in committee, and had particular reference to a law passed in Grenada, which he applauded for its humanity, and truly benevolent spirit. He reprobated the illiberal treatment which the memorialists had received, and asserted that they were friends to the constitution, and that on the present occasion they came forward from the most laudable motives, from a wish to promote the happiness of mankind; that their conduct, so far from meriting censure, deserved, and would receive, the applause of the civilized world.

Mr. BROWN, in a considerable speech, advocated the motion of Mr. WHITE. He enlarged on the pernicious consequences that may be expected to flow from the interference of Congress; he pointed out the effects which had resulted from the interposition of the Quakers, by which the prospects of the Southern States in slaves had been rendered very precarious--and if Congress should adopt the report as it stands, the consequences would be pernicious in the highest degree. The negro property will be annihilated. The emancipation of slaves will be effected in time, it ought to be a gradual business; but he hoped that Congress would not, to gratify people who never had been friendly to the independence of America, precipitate the business to the great injury of the Southern States.

Mr. BURKE entered into a very extensive consideration of the subject. He gave an account of the humane treatment which the slaves of the Southern States received, their habitations, families, children, privileges, &c. He then showed that their emancipation would tend to make them wretched in the highest degree. He animadverted with great freedom on the past and present conduct of the Quakers. He denied that they were the friends of freedom; he said, that during the late war, they were for bringing this country under a foreign yoke; they descended to the character of spies; they supplied the enemy with provisions; they were guides and conductors to their armies; and whenever the American army came into their neighborhood, they found themselves in an enemy's country. Mr. BURKE was proceeding in this strain, when he was interrupted by being called to order. A warm altercation ensued, and in the midst of it, a motion was made that the committee rise. This motion was negatived, and Mr. BURKE added a few more observations on the injustice of the measure of interference, as it respected the property of the Southern States.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said he lamented much that this subject had been brought before the House; that he had deprecated it from the beginning, because he foresaw that it would produce a very unpleasant discussion; that it was a subject of a nature to excite the alarms of the Southern members, who could not view, without anxiety, any interference in it on the part of Congress. He remarked, that as they were resolved into a Committee of the Whole on the powers of Congress respecting slavery and the slave trade, in consequence of certain memorials from the people called Quakers and the Pennsylvania Society for the abolition of slavery, the whole subject, as well as the contents of these memorials, was under consideration. He should therefore enter into the business at large, and offer some comments on the contents of the memorial.

The memorial from the Quakers contained, in his opinion, a very indecent attack on the character of those States which possess slaves. It reprobates slavery as bringing down reproach on the Southern States, and expatiates on the detestation due to the licentious wickedness of the African trade, and the inhuman tyranny and bloodguiltiness inseparable from it. He could not but consider it as calculated to fix a stigma of the blackest nature on the State he had the honor to represent, and to hold its citizens up to public view as men divested of every principle of honor and humanity. Considering it in that light, he felt it incumbent on him not only to refute those atrocious calumnies, but to resent the improper language made use of by the memorialists. Before he entered into the discussion, he begged to observe, that when any class of men deviated from their own religious principles, and officiously came forward in a business with which they had no concern, and attempted to dictate to Congress, he could not ascribe their conduct to any other cause but to an intolerant spirit of persecution. This application came with the worst grace possible from the Quakers, who professed never to intermeddle in politics, but to submit quietly to the laws of the country.

He had met with a publication which came out in the year 1775, (at a period when the affairs of America were in a very desponding situation,) entitled "The ancient Testimony and Principles of the Quakers." It set forth that their religious principles restrained them from having any hand or connivance in setting up and putting down kings and governments; that this was God's peculiar prerogative for causes best known to himself; that it was not their business to be busybodies above their stations, but only to pray for the King and safety of their nation, that they might live a quiet and peaceable life, under the Government which God was pleased to set over them. If these were really their sentiments, why did they not abide by them? Why did they not leave that, which they call God's work, to be managed by himself? Those principles should instruct them to wait with patience and humility for the event of all public measures, and to receive that event as the Divine will. Their conduct on this occasion proved that they did not believe what they professed, or that they had not virtue enough to practise what they believed. Did they mean to rob the Almighty of what they call his prerogative? And were they not partial ministers of their own acknowledged principles? It was difficult to credit their pretended scruples; because, while they were exclaiming against the Mammon of this world, they are hunting after it with a step steady as time, and an appetite keen as the grave.

The memorial from the Pennsylvania Society applied, in express terms, for an emancipation of slaves, and the report of the committee appeared to hold out the idea that Congress might exercise the power of emancipating after the year 1808; for it is said that Congress could not emancipate slaves prior to that period. He remarked, that either the power of manumission still remained with the several States, or it was exclusively vested in Congress; for no one would contend that such a power would be concurrent in the several States and the United States. He then showed that the State Governments clearly retained all the rights of sovereignty which they had before the establishment of the constitution, unless they were exclusively delegated to the United States; and this could only exist where the Constitution granted, in express terms, an exclusive authority to the Union, or where it granted in one instance an authority to the Union, and in another prohibited the States from exercising the like authority, or where it granted an authority to the Union, to which a similar authority in the States would be repugnant.

He applied these principles to the case in question; and asked, whether the constitution had, in express terms, vested the Congress with the power of manumission? Or whether it restrained the States from exercising that power? Or whether there was any authority given to the Union, with which the exercise of this right by any State would be inconsistent? If these questions were answered in the negative, it followed that Congress had not an exclusive right to the power of manumission. Had it a concurrent right with the States? No gentleman would assert it, because the absurdity was obvious. For a State regulation on the subject might differ from a Federal regulation; in which case one or the other must give way. As the laws of the United States were paramount to those of the individual States, the Federal regulations would abrogate those of the States, consequently the States would thus be divested of a power which it was evident they now had, and might exercise whenever they thought proper. But admitting that Congress had authority to manumit the slaves in America, and were disposed to exercise it, would the Southern States acquiesce in such a measure without a struggle? Would the citizens of that country tamely suffer their property to be torn from them? Would even the citizens of the other States, which did not possess this property, desire to have all the slaves let loose upon them? Would not such a step be injurious even to the slaves themselves? It was well known that they were an indolent people, improvident, averse to labor: when emancipated, they would either starve or plunder. Nothing was a stronger proof of the absurdity of emancipation than the fanciful schemes which the friends to the measure had suggested; one was, to ship them out of the country, and colonize them in some foreign region. This plan admitted that it would be dangerous to retain them within the United States after they were manumitted: but surely it would be inconsistent with humanity to banish these people to a remote country, and to expel them from their native soil, and from places to which they had a local attachment. It would be no less repugnant to the principles of freedom, not to allow them to remain here, if they desired it. How could they be called freemen, if they were, against their consent, to be expelled from the country? Thus did the advocates for emancipation acknowledge that the blacks, when liberated, ought not to remain here to stain the blood of the whites by a mixture of the races.

Another plan was to liberate all those who should be born after a certain limited period. Such a scheme would produce this very extraordinary phenomenon, that the mother would be a slave and her child would be free. These young emancipated negroes, by associating with their enslaved parents, would participate in all the debasements which slavery is said to occasion. But allowing that a practicable scheme of general emancipation could be devised, there can be no doubt that the two races would still remain distinct. It is known, from experience, that the whites had such an idea of their superiority over the blacks, that they never even associated with them; even the warmest friends to the blacks kept them at a distance, and rejected all intercourse with them. Could any instance be quoted of their intermarrying; the Quakers asserted that nature made all men equal, and that the difference of color should not place negroes on a worse footing in society than the whites; but had any of them ever married a negro, or would any of them suffer their children to mix their blood with that of a black? They would view with abhorrence such an alliance.

Mr. S. then read some extracts from Mr. Jefferson's Notes on Virginia, proving that negroes were by nature an inferior race of beings; and that the whites would always feel a repugnance at mixing their blood with that of the blacks. Thus, he proceeded, that respectable author, who was desirous of countenancing emancipation, was, on a consideration of the subject, induced candidly to avow that the difficulties appeared insurmountable. The friends to manumission had said, that by prohibiting the further importation of slaves, and by liberating those born after a certain period, a gradual emancipation might take place, and that in process of time the very color would be extinct, and there would be none but whites. He was at a loss to learn how that consequence would result. If the blacks did not intermarry with the whites, they would remain black to the end of time; for it was not contended that liberating them would whitewash them; if they would intermarry with the whites, then the white race would be extinct, and the American people would be all of the mulatto breed. In whatever light, therefore, the subject was viewed, the folly of emancipation was manifest. He trusted these considerations would prevent any further application to Congress on this point, and would so far have weight with the committee as to reject the clause altogether, or at least to declare, in plain terms, that Congress has no right whatever to manumit the slaves of this country.

Various objections, said he, had at different times been alleged against the abominable practice, as it had been called, of one man exercising dominion over another; but slavery was no new thing in the world. The Romans, the Greeks, and other nations of antiquity, held slaves at the time Christianity first dawned on society, and the professors of its mild doctrines never preached against it. [Here Mr. S. read a quotation from the Roman and Grecian History, and from some accounts of the government and manners of the people of Africa, before they had any knowledge of the African traders, from which it appeared that slavery was not disapproved of by the Apostles when they went about diffusing the principles of Christianity; and that it was not owing to the African trade, as had been alleged, that the people of Africa made war on each other.]

Another objection against slavery was, that the number of slaves in the Southern States weakened that part of the Union, and in case of invasion would require a greater force to protect it. Negroes, it was said, would not fight; but he would ask whether it was owing to their being black or to their being slaves? if to their being black, then unquestionably emancipating them would not remedy the evil, for they would still remain black; if it was owing to their being slaves, he denied the position: for it was an undeniable truth, that in many countries slaves made excellent soldiers. In Russia, Hungary, Poland, peasants were slaves, and yet were brave troops. In Scotland, not many years ago, the Highland peasants were absolute slaves to their lairds, and they were renowned for their bravery. The Turks were as much enslaved as the negroes--their property and lives were at the absolute disposal of the Sultan, yet they fought with undaunted courage. Many other instances might be quoted, but those would suffice to refute the fact. Had experience proved that the negroes would not make good soldiers? He did not assert that they would, but they had never been tried; discipline was every thing; white militia made but indifferent soldiers before they were disciplined. It was well known that according to the present art of war, a soldier was a mere machine, and he did not see why a black machine was not as good as a white one; in one respect the black troops would have the advantage in appearing more horrible in the eyes of the enemy. But admitting that they would not fight, to what would the argument lead? Undoubtedly to show that the Quakers, Moravians, and all the non-resisting and non-fighting sects, constitute the weakness of the country. Did they contribute to strengthen the country against invasion by staying at home and joining the invader as soon as he was successful? But they furnished money, he should be told, and paid substitutes; and did not the slaves, by increasing the agriculture of the country, add to its wealth, and thereby increase its strength? Did they not moreover perform many laborious services in the camp and in the field, assist in transporting baggage, conveying artillery, throwing up fortifications, and thus increase the numbers in the ranks by supplying their places in these services? Nor was it necessary that every part of the empire should furnish fighting men; one part supplied men, another money; one part was strong in population, another in valuable exports, which added to the opulence of the whole. Great Britain obtained no soldiers from her East and West India settlements, were they therefore useless? She was obliged to send troops to protect them, but their valuable trade furnished her with means of paying those troops.

Another objection was that the public opinion was against slavery. How did that appear? Were there any petitions on the subject excepting that from the Pennsylvania Society and a few Quakers? And were they to judge for the whole Continent? Were the citizens of the Northern and Eastern States to dictate to Congress on a measure in which the Southern States were so deeply interested? There were no petitions against slavery from the Southern States, and they were the only proper judges of what was for their interest. The toleration of slavery in the several States was a matter of internal regulation and policy, in which each State had a right to do as she pleased, and no other State had any right to intermeddle with her policy or laws. If the citizens of the Northern States were displeased with the toleration of slavery in the Southern States, the latter were equally disgusted with some things tolerated in the former.

He had mentioned on a former occasion the dangerous tenets and pernicious practices of the sect of Shaking Quakers, who preached against matrimony, and whose doctrine and example, if they prevailed, would either depopulate the United States, or people it with a spurious race. However the people of South Carolina reprobated the gross and immoral conduct of these Shakers, they had not petitioned Congress to expel them from the Continent, though they thought such a measure would be serviceable to the United States.

The Legislature of South Carolina had prohibited theatrical representations, deeming them improper; but they did not trouble Congress with an application to abolish them in New York and Philadelphia. The Southern citizens might also consider the toleration of Quakers as an injury to the community, because in time of war they would not defend their country from the enemy, and in time of peace they were interfering in the concerns of others, and doing every thing in their power to excite the slaves in the Southern States to insurrection; notwithstanding which, the people of those States had not required the assistance of Congress to exterminate the Quakers.

But he could not help observing, that this squeamishness was very extraordinary at this time. The Northern States knew that the Southern States had slaves before they confederated with them. If they had such an abhorrence for slavery, why, said Mr. S., did they not cast us off and reject our alliance? The truth was, that the best informed part of the citizens of the Northern States knew that slavery was so ingrafted into the policy of the Southern States, that it could not be eradicated without tearing up by the roots their happiness, tranquillity, and prosperity; that if it were an evil, it was one for which there was no remedy, and therefore, like wise men, they acquiesced in it. We, on the other hand, knew that the Quaker doctrines had taken such deep root in some of the States, that all resistance to them must be useless; we therefore made a compromise on both sides--we took each other, with our mutual bad habits and respective evils, for better, for worse; the Northern States adopted us with our slaves, and we adopted them with their Quakers. There was then an implied compact between the Northern and Southern people that no step should be taken to injure the property of the latter, or to disturb their tranquillity. It was therefore with great pain that he viewed the anxiety of some of the members to pay such uncommon respect to the memorialists, as even to set aside the common rules of proceeding, and attempt to commit the memorials the very day they were presented, though the Southern members had solicited one day's delay. Such proceedings had justly raised an alarm in the minds of himself and his Southern colleagues; and feeling that alarm, they would have acted a dishonorable part to their constituents had they not expressed themselves with that warmth and solicitude which some gentlemen had disapproved.

A proper consideration of this business must convince every candid mind that emancipation would be attended with one or other of these consequences: either that a mixture of the races would degenerate the whites, without improving the blacks, or that it would create two separate classes of people in the community, involved in inveterate hostility, which would terminate in the massacre and extirpation of one or the other, as the Moors were expelled from Spain, and the Danes from England. The negroes would not be benefited by it; free negroes never improve in talents, never grow rich, and continue to associate with the people of their own color. This is owing either to the natural aversion the whites entertain towards them, and an opinion of the superiority of their race, or to the natural attachment the blacks have to those of their own color; in either case it proves that they will, after manumission, continue a distinct people, and have separate interests. The author already quoted has proved that they are an inferior race even to the Indians.

After the last war, a number of negroes which had been stolen from the Southern States, and carried to England, either quitted the persons who had carried them there, or were abandoned by them. Unable to provide for themselves, and rejected from the society of the common people of England, they were begging about the streets of London in great numbers; they supplicated captains of vessels to carry them back to their owners in America, preferring slavery there to freedom in England. Many of them were shipped to Africa by the humanity of the English, and were either butchered or made slaves of by their savage countrymen, or reshipped for sale to the plantations.

But some persons have been of opinion, that if the further importation of slaves could be prohibited, there would be a gradual extinction of the species. Having shown the absurdity of liberating the postnati without extending it to all the slaves old and young, and the great absurdity and even impracticability of extending it to all, I shall say a few words with regard to the extinction. That would be impossible, because they increase; to occasion an extinction, Congress must prohibit all intercourse between the sexes; this would be an act of humanity they would not thank us for, nor would they be persuaded that it was for their own good; or Congress must, like Herod, order all the children to be put to death as soon as born. If, then, nothing but evil would result from emancipation, under the existing circumstances of the country, why should Congress stir at all in the business, or give any countenance to such dangerous applications? We have been told that the Government ought to manifest a disposition inimical to this practice which the people reprobate. If some citizens, from misinformation and ignorance, have imbibed prejudices against the Southern States, if ill-intentioned authors have related false facts, and gross misrepresentations tending to traduce the character of a whole State, and to mislead the citizens of other States, is that a sufficient reason why a large territory is to be depopulated, merely to gratify the wish of some misinformed individuals? But what have the citizens of the other States to do with our slaves? Have they any right to interfere with our internal policy?

This is not an object of general concern, for I have already proved that it does not weaken the Union; but admit that it did, will the abolition of slavery strengthen South Carolina? It can only be cultivated by slaves; the climate, the nature of the soil, ancient habits, forbid the whites from performing the labor. Experience convinces us of the truth of this. Great Britain made every attempt to settle Georgia by whites alone, and failed, and was compelled at length to introduce slaves; after which that State increased very rapidly in opulence and importance. If the slaves are emancipated, they will not remain in that country; remove the cultivators of the soil, and the whole of the low country, all the fertile rice and indigo swamps will be deserted, and become a wilderness. What, then, becomes of its strength? Will such a scheme increase it? Instead of increasing the population of the whites, there will be no whites at all. If the low country is deserted, where will be the commerce, the valuable exports of that country, the large revenue raised from its imports and from the consumption of the rich planters? In a short time, the Northern and Eastern States will supply us with their manufactures; if you depopulate the rich low country of South Carolina and Georgia, you will give us a blow which will immediately recoil on yourselves. Suppose there are one hundred and forty thousand slaves in those States, which require annually five yards of cloth each, making seven hundred thousand yards at half a dollar a yard, this makes three hundred and fifty thousand dollars, besides the articles of linen, flannel, Osnaburgh, blankets, molasses, sugar, and rum, for the use of the negroes; now, either the Eastern and Middle States will supply us with all these articles, or they will receive the benefit of the impost on them if they are imported from foreign countries. Without the rice swamps of Carolina, Charleston would decay, so would the commerce of that city; this would injure the back country. If you injure the Southern States, the injury would reach our Northern and Eastern brethren; for the States are links of one chain; if we break one, the whole must fall to pieces. Thus it is manifest, that in proportion to the increase of our agriculture will our wealth be increased; the increase of which will augment that of our sister States, which will either supply us with their commodities, or raise a large revenue upon us, or be the carriers of our produce to foreign markets.

It has been said, that the toleration of slavery brings down reproach on America. It only brings reproach on those who tolerate it, and we are ready to bear our share. We know that none but prejudiced and uncandid persons, who have hastily considered the subject, and are ignorant of the real situation of the Southern States, throw out these insinuations. We found slavery ingrafted in the very policy of the country when we were born, and we are persuaded of the impolicy of removing it; if it be a moral evil, it is like many others which exist in all civilized countries, and which the world quietly submit to. Humanity has been a topic of declamation on this subject: that sentiment has different operations on different individuals, and he had it in his power to show, that humanity first gave origin to the transportation of slaves from Africa into America. Bartholomew de las Casas, Bishop of Chiapa, a Spaniard renowned for his humanity and virtues, in order to save the Indians in South America from slavery, prevailed on his monarch to substitute Africans, which were accordingly purchased on the coast of Africa, and shipped to the Spanish colonies to work in the mines: this appears in Robertson's History of America, which Mr. S. quoted. At this day, the Spaniards give considerable encouragement to the transportation of slaves into their islands. Mr. S. read the edict for that purpose.

Another objection is, that slavery vitiates and debases the mind of the owner of this sort of property. Where, he asked, is the proof of this allegation? Do the citizens of the Southern States exhibit more ferociousness in their manners, more barbarity in their dispositions, than those of the other States? Are crimes more frequently committed there? A proof of the absurdity of this charge may be found in the writings of those who wish to disseminate this mischievous idea, and yet, in their relations of facts, they themselves contradict it. They lay down general principles, which they take upon credit from others, or which they publish with sinister views, and when they enter into a detail of the history of those States, they overset their own doctrines. Thus, one writer tells us, that the Southern citizen, who is educated in principles of superiority to the slaves which surround him, has no idea of government, obedience, and good order, till he mingles with the hardy and free-spirited yeomanry of the North, and that after mixing with them, he will return home with his mind more enlarged, his views more liberalized, and his affections rectified, and he becomes a more generous friend to the rights of human nature. But hear what the Eastern traveller is to learn by visiting the enslaved regions of the South. He will see, says the same writer, immediately after, industry crowned with affluence, independence, hospitality, liberality of manners; and, notwithstanding the prevalence of domestic slavery, he will find the noblest sentiments of freedom and independence to predominate; he will extol their enterprise, art, and ingenuity, and will reflect that nature is wise, and that Providence in the distribution of its favors is not capricious. Take another striking instance of this contradiction from Morse's Geography. He says, that there are more slaves than free persons in South Carolina, and mentions the mischievous influence of slavery on their manners, which, he observes, by exempting them from the necessity of labor, leads to luxury, dissipation, and extravagance, and savors too much of a haughty, supercilious behavior; that the inhabitants want that enterprise and perseverance which are necessary for the attainment of the arts and sciences; that they have few motives to enterprise, and too generally rest contented with barely knowledge enough to transact the common affairs of life. Now, for the author's proofs: they are contained in these words:

"Many of the inhabitants spare no pains nor expense in giving the highest polish of education to their children; literature has begun to flourish since the peace; several flourishing academies and colleges have been established; the ladies have an engaging softness and delicacy in their manners; theatrical exhibitions have been prohibited by law; gaming of all kinds is more discountenanced than in any of the Southern States; all denominations of religion are on an equal footing; commerce is flourishing; economy is becoming more fashionable, and science begins to spread her salutary influence among the citizens."

But was South Carolina, at the commencement of the war, with all her slaves, backward in her resistance to Great Britain? View the conduct of her citizens, their zeal and ardor in the cause of liberty; their labor at Fort Sullivan. Are crimes more frequent in that country than in the other States? Are there more executions? I believe there have been as few as in any part of the Continent, and those which have taken place have been generally of emigrant convicts, or fugitive wheel-barrow men; he would be bold to assert that in no State on the Continent is there more order, sobriety, and obedience to good government; more industry and frugality; nor is there any trace of the influence of slavery on the character of her citizens.

The French, so far from curbing and cramping the African trade with needless regulations, give large premiums upon every negro landed on their islands; in some instances as much as two hundred livres per head. Is that nation more debased than others? Are they not a polished people, sensible of the rights of mankind, and actuated by proper sentiments of humanity? The Spaniards encourage slavery; they are people of the nicest honor, proverbially so. The Romans and Greeks had slaves, and are not their glorious achievements held up as excitements to great and magnanimous actions? Sparta teemed with slaves at the time of her greatest fame as a valiant Republic. The absolute power of the Lacedæmonians over the Helotes is frequently spoken of by the ancient writers; they were not only the slaves of the Commonwealth, but of every individual; they could not be set at liberty, neither could they be sold; hence arose a saying, that a free man at Sparta was most a free man, and a slave most a slave.

The system of the Roman policy with regard to slavery was still more severe. Slaves were not even under the protection of the laws; they were considered as things, inter res. A master, merely from caprice, might torture, dismember, and even murder his slave. If a slave did any damage exceeding his value, he was delivered to the person injured, who did with him what he pleased. Yet these slaves were of the same color as their masters, and equal to them in mental faculties; many of them were men of great learning, philosophers, poets, &c. Much had been said of the cruel treatment of slaves in the West Indies and the Southern States; with respect to the latter, he denied the fact from experience, and accurate information, and believed in his conscience that the slaves in South Carolina were a happier people than the lower order of whites in many countries he had visited. With regard to the West Indies, Lord Rodney and Admiral Barrington had both declared, that they had spent some time in the West Indies, and that they had never heard of a negro being cruelly treated; that they had often spoken of their happiness in high terms, declaring that they should rejoice exceedingly if the English day laborer was half as happy. Some have said that slavery is unnecessary; so far from it, that several essential manufactures depended on it. Indigo, cochineal, and various other dyeing materials, which are the produce of the West Indies, could only be raised by slaves; the great staple commodities of the South would be annihilated without the labor of slaves. It is well known that when the African slaves were brought to the coast for sale, it was customary to put to death all those who were not sold; the abolition of the slave trade would therefore cause the massacre of the people.

The cruel mode of transportation was another motive to this abolition; but was it to be presumed that the merchants would so far attend to their own interests as to preserve the lives and the health of the slaves on the passage. All voyages must be attended with inconveniencies, and those from Africa to America not more than others. As to their confinement on board, it was no more than necessary; as to the smallness of space allotted them, it was more than was allotted to soldiers in a camp; for the measurement of cubical air breathed by the Africans, compared with that of soldiers in a camp, was in favor of the former as thirty to seventeen; it was full as much as was allotted in ships of war to seamen, who, by the laws of England, were frequently on their return to their families, after a long and dangerous voyage, seized by violence, hurried away by a press-gang, and forced on another voyage more tedious and perilous than the first, to a hot and sickly climate, where several hundreds of them were stowed away in the hold of a vessel. In cases of disobedience, the captain had a right, for slight offences, to inflict on them corporal punishment without the intervention of a court-martial, and in other cases they are punishable by very severe laws, executed by martial courts, established for that purpose. The same may be observed of the soldiers, who were frequently flogged severely for trifling offences; instances have been known of their being put under the care of a surgeon, after receiving a small part of the intended flagellation, to refit them for the residue.

Having thus removed the force of the observations which have been advanced against the toleration of slavery, by a misguided and misinformed humanity, I shall only add, that I disapprove of the whole of the report; because it either states some power sufficiently expressed in the constitution, which is unnecessary, or it sets forth some power which I am clear Congress do not possess. The concluding paragraph is an extraordinary one. In what mode are the memorialists to be informed of our humane dispositions? Are we to send a special committee to inform them? Or is the Speaker to write them a letter, or the Sergeant-at-Arms with the mace to wait on them? In short, Mr. Chairman, the whole of this business has been wrong from beginning to end, and as one false step generally leads to others, so has the hasty commitment of these memorials involved us in all this confusion and embarrassment. I hope, therefore, if any kind of report is agreed to, it will be something like that proposed by my colleague.

The committee rose, and reported progress.

FRIDAY, March 19.

HUGH WILLIAMSON, a member from North Carolina, appeared and took his seat.

MONDAY, March 22.

Subject of Slavery.

Mr. BOUDINOT said, although he most heartily approved of many of the arguments and doctrines of his friend from Pennsylvania, yet he could not go all lengths with him. He thought with him, that our time had been taken up, and great labor had been used in arguments that nowise related to the merits of the question before the committee, but he could not agree that the clause in the constitution relating to the want of power in Congress "to prohibit the importation of such persons, as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, prior to the year 1808, and authorizing a tax or duty on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person," did not extend to negro slaves. Candor required that he should acknowledge, that this was the express design of the constitution, and, therefore, Congress could not interfere in prohibiting the importation, or promoting the emancipation of them, prior to that period. He said he was well informed that the tax or duty of ten dollars was provided instead of the five per cent. ad valorem, and was so expressly understood by all parties in the Convention. That therefore it was the interest and duty of Congress to impose this tax, or it would not be doing justice to the States, or equalizing the duties throughout the Union. If this was not done, merchants might bring their whole capitals into this branch of trade, and save paying any duties whatever. Mr. B. had hoped that the great lengths to which the gentleman from Pennsylvania had carried the argument, would have convinced gentlemen in the opposition of the propriety, if not the necessity of the resolutions on the table. Is it not prudent now, while the design of the framers of the constitution is well known, and while the best information can be obtained, for Congress to declare their sense of it, on points which the gentlemen say, involve their great and essential interests, especially when the gentleman from Pennsylvania gives so different a construction to it from what the gentleman from the Southward thinks right? Is it not advantageous to the Southern States to have an explicit declaration calming their fears and preventing unnecessary jealousies on this subject? Can there be any foundation for alarm, when Congress expressly declare, that they have no power of interference prior to the year 1808? But gentlemen say they have been charged with impropriety of conduct, in discovering so much warmth and earnestness, on a subject with which their dearest interests are so intimately connected--that all men are led by interest, and they are justified in pursuing the same line of conduct.

Mr. B. declared, for his own part, he never blamed them for standing forth for what they conceived the true interests of their constituents; but it was the manner in which this had been done, that he complained of. On resolutions declaring that Congress had not power to prohibit the importation of slaves into any State, or interfering in their emancipation or internal government, long arguments had been used, and much precious time had been spent, to prove the lawfulness of the African trade in slaves; this, indeed, was an arduous task, in this day of light and knowledge. An author, said to be of reputation, was brought forward to prove the state of that unhappy country, but it turned out to be in the fifteenth century; this could be of little avail. An hour was taken up in reading the labors of a newspaper writer in the island of Jamaica. This writer appeared wholly uninformed as to historic facts relating to the miserable Africans, and as ignorant of the principal arguments against the slave trade. It was necessary for him to deny the authority of Anthony Benezet, who had published some pointed facts on the subject. Mr. Benezet was a man of the strictest integrity, and of the best information--a man that was an honor to his country, and an ornament to society. Mr. B. had been well acquainted with him, and spoke from personal knowledge; he had examined into the facts from captains of Guineamen, and a person who had lived twelve years in that country, and he could say, with confidence, that Mr. Benezet's account had been generally confirmed. Not only the practice of ancient nations, and that of all modern Europe, had been brought into view, but even the sacred Scriptures had been quoted, to justify this iniquitous traffic. It is true, that the Egyptians held the Israelites in bondage for four hundred years, and Mr. B. doubted not, but much the same arguments as had been used on the present occasion, had been urged with great violence by the King of Egypt, whose heart, it is expressly said, had been extremely hardened, to show why he should not consent to let the children of Israel go, who had now become absolutely necessary to him; but, said he, gentlemen cannot forget the consequences that followed; they were delivered by a strong hand and stretched-out arm, and it ought to be remembered that the Almighty Power that accomplished their deliverance is the same yesterday, to-day, and for ever. The New Testament has afforded a number of texts to countenance this doctrine, in the gentleman's opinion. One would have imagined that the uniform tenor of the Gospel, that breathes a spirit of love and universal philanthropy to our fellow-creatures--that commands our love to our neighbor to be measured by our love to ourselves--that teaches us that whatsoever we would that men should do to us to do so to them, would have prevented this misapplication. Surely the gentleman overlooked the prophecy of St. Peter, where he foretells, that, among other damnable heresies, "through covetousness shall they, with feigned words, make merchandise of you."

A quotation from a modern author, of great note in the philosophical world, has been most ungenerously made use of by the newspaper writer before referred to--I mean from the works of the famous Mr. Paley, whose treatise on Moral Philosophy does him the greatest credit--a single sentence or two is taken from this work, without regard to the connection, to brand him with the charge of countenancing slavery. Mr. B. then produced the book and read the passage, wherein it appeared that Mr. Paley laid down "the obligation of slavery to arise from crimes, captivity, and debt;" that the slave trade on the coast of Africa is not excused by these principles; that no questions are there asked relative to the justice of the vender's title, but this is the least crime with which this traffic is chargeable; the natives are excited to war, with this the wickedness begins; the slaves torn away from parents, wives, children, from their friends and companions, their fields and flocks, their home and country, are transported to the European settlements in America, with no other accommodation on ship-board than what is provided for brutes. This is the second stage of cruelty from which they are delivered, only to be placed, and that for life, in subjection to a dominion and system of laws the most tyrannical that ever were tolerated upon the face of the earth. But necessity is pretended, and after all it has never been proved that it exists. Mr. Paley then refers to the present situation of the United States. "The great revolution in the Western World," says he, "may probably conduce (and who knows but that it was designed) to accelerate the fall of this abominable tyranny; and now it is a season for reflecting whether a Legislature, which had so long lent its assistance to the support of an institution replete with human misery, was fit to be trusted with an empire the most extensive that ever obtained in any age or quarter of the world." He then shows that slavery was a part of the civil constitution of most countries when Christianity appeared; and the reason that its precepts did not expressly condemn or prohibit slavery was, because, soliciting admission into all nations, it abstained from meddling with the civil institutions of any. Then follows the passage quoted by the newspaper writer--"That the discharging of slaves from all obligation to their masters, which is the consequence of pronouncing slavery unlawful, would have no better effect than to let loose one-half of mankind on the other. Slaves would have been tempted to embrace a religion which asserted their right to freedom; masters would hardly have been persuaded to consent to claims founded on such authority; the most calamitous of all contests, a bellum servile, might probably have ensued, to the reproach, if not the extinction of the Christian name." He then asserts, that emancipation should be gradual, and by the provisions of laws, and under the protection of civil government. "Christianity can only operate as an alterative. By the mild diffusion of its light and influence, the minds of men are insensibly prepared to perceive and correct the enormities, which folly, wickedness, or accident, have introduced into their public establishments." Thus, proceeded Mr. B., justice is done to this worthy philosopher and my own sentiments are more concisely and explicitly set forth than I could have done without it.

But when gentlemen attempt to justify this unnatural traffic, or to prove the lawfulness of slavery, they should advert to the genius of our Government, and the principles of the Revolution. By the declaration of Congress, in 1775, setting forth the causes and necessity of taking up arms, they say: "If it was possible for men who exercise their reason, to believe that the Divine author of our existence intended a part of the human race to hold an absolute property in, and an unbounded power over others, marked out by His infinite goodness and wisdom, as the objects of a legal domination never rightfully resistible, however severe and oppressive, the inhabitants of these colonies might at least require from the Parliament of Great Britain some evidence that this dreadful authority over them had been granted to that body." And by the Declaration of Independence, in 1776, Congress declare: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

This, then, is the language of America in the day of distress. Mr. Chairman, I would not be understood, to contend the right of Congress at this time to prohibit the importation of slaves, whatever might have been the principles of the Revolution or the genius of the Government; by the present constitution we are clearly and positively restrained till the year 1808, and I am sure that no gentleman in this committee would have the most distant wish to wound this instrument of our connection.

But there is a wide difference between justifying this ungenerous traffic, and supporting a claim to property, vested at the time of the constitution, and guarantied thereby. Besides, it would be inhumanity itself to turn these unhappy people loose to murder each other, or to perish for the want of the necessaries of life. I never was an advocate for so extravagant a conduct.

Many arguments were pointed against the danger of our emancipating these slaves, or even holding up an idea that we had a power so to do, and much time has been taken up to disprove this right in Congress. As no claim of this kind is contended for, and the resolutions already passed expressly contradict it, I shall make no further observations on them.

But the characters of the signers of these memorials are called in question, as an argument against the adoption of the resolution on the table. One of these memorials was signed by the Society of people called Quakers: the other by Dr. Franklin, as President of a private Society in Philadelphia. The indiscriminate abuse that has been thrown out against Quakers, without distinction, has not comported with the honor or dignity of this House. Not only their characters, but their very names have been called upon, and private anecdotes, relating to individuals, been mentioned on the floor. Many of the Quakers I have long lived in the habits of friendship with, and can testify to the respectability of their characters and the regularity of their lives. Their conduct in the late war has been arraigned, and they have been condemned in the lump. I have known many of them during the war, and impartial justice requires it from me, to give the committee some official information on the subject. I had the honor of serving the United States at the commencement of the war, as Commissary General of prisoners. Congress not being able to afford them supplies, those unhappy men in this town were reduced to the very depths of distress, without food or raiment, without blankets or firing, they suffered every thing that human nature could bear. In this situation many of the Quakers of this city exercised such humanity towards them as did honor to human nature. The miserable prisoner not only felt the happy effects of their exertions in his favor, but participated in their money, their food, and clothing. Nay, such were the jealousies created by this conduct, in the British army here, that an armed force entered the house of one of them, seized his books, and though a man of great property, and large commercial dealings, on finding that he had loaned large sums of money to our distressed prisoners, he was turned out of their lines, and with his family was a refugee during the whole of the war afterwards, separated from his business and property.

To whom was the care of our prisoners in Philadelphia committed? To a Quaker: and I have been witness to the just tribute of gratitude and thankfulness paid by great numbers of our unhappy fellow-citizens to that gentleman for his kindness and humanity. And is this indiscriminate charge, without the least respect to characters, a decent or a just return for a conduct like this? Where is the denomination amongst us, that did not furnish opposers to our glorious Revolution? Were not hundreds of Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and almost of every other denomination, among our enemies? What denominations formed the thousands of new levies, that endeavored to deluge our country in blood? On the other hand, were not a Greene and a Mifflin furnished from the Society of the Quakers?

In short, I rejoice to say, that our cause was not carried on by fanaticism or religious zeal, but a general struggle for the rights of human nature. Then why all this abuse of this particular sect, without discrimination? Can any solid argument against the resolution on the table arise from a conduct of this kind? I am at a loss to know what other argument has been used to show the impropriety of the resolution before you. It goes to declare the power of Congress to prohibit foreigners from fitting out vessels in our ports, to supply foreigners with slaves from Africa. For my part, I think it a prudent, a humane, and a constitutional resolution. It will render further interference on this subject, perhaps, unnecessary, when it is known that the power of Congress extends to remedy the evil. They will hardly venture to risk a voyage that may be ruined before its being finished.

The gentleman last up (Mr. SMITH) said, that it was now acknowledged, that one of the memorials had asked something contrary to the constitution. I have never acknowledged this. The language is, that Congress would go to "the very verge of the constitution," to accomplish the business; but there is no request to exceed it.

The character of the celebrated signer of the last memorial, Dr. Franklin, has been touched upon. The firmness of his mind has been suspected. An ingenious parable of his has been read to the committee, but its application totally mistaken. If the Supreme Being has borne with the unhappy subjects of our consideration, not for one hundred, but for thousands of years, in their own native land; has provided them with climate, soil, and social comforts, in which they rejoice; must we be discontented, and suppose, by adding to their misery, we can add to their happiness?

TUESDAY, March 23.

Subject of Slavery.

It was then moved, that the House should take up the report of the Committee of the Whole on the report of the committee to whom were referred the memorials of the people called Quakers, and of the Pennsylvania Society for promoting the abolition of slavery.

This motion was opposed by Mr. JACKSON, Mr. SMITH, Mr. BURKE, and Mr. BLAND; they severally observed, that the discussion of the subject has already excited a spirit of dissension among the members of the House, and that every principle of policy and concern for the dignity of the House, and the peace and tranquillity of the United States, concur to show the propriety of dropping the subject, and letting it sleep where it is. On the other hand, Mr. VINING, Mr. HARTLEY, and Mr. PAGE, observed, that there was the same propriety in taking up the subject at the present moment, and bringing it to a conclusion, as there was for first taking it up; that it has been so fully discussed it cannot be supposed gentlemen will go over the same ground again; it may soon be determined; to pass it over will be unprecedented, and will leave the public mind in the same state of uncertainty from which so much danger is apprehended. The motion for taking up the report was warmly contested in a lengthy debate, and finally passed in the affirmative, by a majority of one. Whereupon, on motion, that the said report of the committee, and also the report of the Committee of the whole House, of amendments to said report, be inserted on the Journal, it was resolved in the affirmative, 29 votes to 25. The yeas and nays were as follows:

Those who voted in the affirmative, were,

Messrs. Boudinot, Brown, Cadwalader, Contee, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Griffin, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Huntington, Lawrence, Lee, Leonard, Madison, Muhlenberg, Parker, Partridge, Schureman, Scott, Sedgwick, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Vining, and Wynkoop.

Those who voted in the negative, were,

Messrs. Ames, Baldwin, Benson, Bland, Burke, Carroll, Coles, Gale, Grout, Jackson, Livermore, Mathews, Moore, Page, Van Rensselaer, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sturges, Sumter, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, White, and Williamson.

The said reports are as follow:

Report of the Special Committee.

The committee to whom were referred sundry memorials from the people called Quakers, and also, a memorial from the Pennsylvania Society for promoting the Abolition of Slavery, submit the following report:

That from the nature of the matters contained in these memorials, they were induced to examine the powers vested in Congress, under the present constitution, relating to the Abolition of Slavery, and are clearly of opinion,

First. That the General Government is expressly restrained from prohibiting the importation of such persons "as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, until the year one thousand eight hundred and eight."

Secondly. That Congress, by a fair construction of the constitution, are equally restrained from interfering in the emancipation of slaves, who already are, or who may, within the period mentioned, be imported into, or born within, any of the said States.

Thirdly. That Congress have no authority to interfere in the internal regulations of particular States, relative to the instructions of slaves in the principles of morality and religion; to their comfortable clothing, accommodations, and subsistence; to the regulation of their marriages, and the prevention of the violation of the rights thereof, or to the separation of children from their parents; to a comfortable provision in cases of sickness, age, or infirmity; or to the seizure, transportation, or sale of free negroes; but have the fullest confidence in the wisdom and humanity of the Legislatures of the several States, that they will revise their laws from time to time, when necessary, and promote the objects mentioned in the memorials, and every other measure that may tend to the happiness of slaves.

Fourthly. That, nevertheless, Congress have authority, if they shall think it necessary, to lay at any time a tax or duty, not exceeding ten dollars for each person of any description, the importation of whom shall be by any of the States admitted as aforesaid.

Fifthly. That Congress have authority to interdict, or (so far as it is or may be carried on by citizens of the United States, for supplying foreigners) to regulate the African trade, and to make provision for the humane treatment of slaves, in all cases while on their passage to the United States, or to foreign ports, so far as respects the citizens of the United States.

Sixthly. That Congress have also authority to prohibit foreigners from fitting out vessels in any port of the United States, for transporting persons from Africa to any foreign port.

Seventhly. That the memorialists be informed, that in all cases to which the authority of Congress extends, they will exercise it for the humane objects of the memorialists, so far as they can be promoted on the principles of justice, humanity, and good policy.

Report of the Committee of the whole House.

The Committee of the whole House, to whom was committed the report of the committee on memorials of the people called Quakers, and of the Pennsylvania Society for promoting the Abolition of Slavery, report the following amendments:

Strike out the first clause, together with the recital thereto, and in lieu thereof insert, "That the migration or importation of such persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, cannot be prohibited by Congress, prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight."

Strike out the second and third clauses, and in lieu thereof insert, "That Congress have no authority to interfere in the emancipation of slaves, or in the treatment of them within any of the States; it remaining with the several States alone to provide any regulations therein, which humanity and true policy may require."

Strike out the fourth and fifth clauses, and in lieu thereof insert, "That Congress have authority to restrain the citizens of the United States from carrying on the African trade, for the purpose of supplying foreigners with slaves, and of providing, by proper regulations, for the humane treatment, during their passage, of slaves imported by the said citizens into the States admitting such importation."

Strike out the seventh clause.[36]

WEDNESDAY, March 24.

JOHN BAPTIST ASHE, another member from North Carolina, appeared and took his seat.

THURSDAY, April 22.

Benjamin Franklin.

Mr. MADISON rose and addressed the House as follows:

Mr. SPEAKER: As we have been informed, not only through the channel of the newspapers, but by a more direct communication, of the decease of an illustrious character, whose native genius has rendered distinguished services to the cause of science and of mankind in general; and whose patriotic exertions have contributed in a high degree to the independence and prosperity of this country in particular; the occasion seems to call upon us to pay some tribute to his memory expressive of the tender veneration his country feels for such distinguished merit. I therefore move the following resolution:

"The House being informed of the decease of BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, a citizen whose native genius was not more an ornament to human nature than his various exertions of it have been precious to science, to freedom, and to his country, do resolve, as a mark of the veneration due to his memory, that the members wear the customary badge of mourning for one month."

Which was agreed to.

THURSDAY, June 24.

Officers of the Navy.

On motion of Mr. HARTLEY, the report of the committee on the memorial of the Officers of the Navy was taken into consideration by the committee of the Whole: the report is as follows:

The committee report, that they do not find any reason sufficient to justify the difference that has been made in the compensation of the officers of the army and of the navy of the United States, and are, therefore, of opinion, that a law ought to pass for granting five years' pay, equal to the commutation of half-pay, and also a bounty of land, to the officers of the navy, upon the same principles, and in the same manner, as has been granted to the officers of the army of the United States.

Mr. SHERMAN observed, that, by the memorial and the report, it appears that the memorialists do not pretend to have any claim on the public by virtue of any existing resolutions of Congress. The subject is very fully before the committee; it lies with Congress, therefore, to determine what is proper to be done under such circumstances. The application stands entirely on the basis of its own merits, and he could conceive of no difficulty in deciding on it.

Mr. STONE observed, that it is true there is no claim by virtue of any antecedent contract or promise; nor was commutation, he believed, promised to the officers of the army. In this view, the officers of the navy stand exactly upon the same footing with those of the army. He then entered into a consideration of the merits, services, and sufferings, of the officers of the navy; and from these and other considerations, urged the justice of their claims, as he could see no reason for the difference that had been made.

Mr. HUNTINGTON said, but a little consideration was necessary to recollect the reason of the difference between the officers of the navy and army. The officers of the army were first in the public service; the navy was not formed until some time after hostilities commenced. The officers of the navy were put on the same footing, in respect to pay, as the army; the former had some advantages in point of rank, and they were entitled to a part of their captures. He then gave an account of the origin of commutation--which was granted on account of the peculiar exigencies of affairs at that time. During the time this business was in agitation there were very few navy officers in the public service, and no application was made by them for half-pay or commutation. They were ashore, and many of them had retired to civil life. The reason, therefore, why they are not included in the commutation was, there did not appear at the time any necessity for the measure, as the United States did not then want a navy; whereas the public exigencies with respect to the army were such as rendered the resolution for the commutation to them absolutely necessary. He, however, thought the claim of the navy officers founded on justice; and justice, said he, is the strongest plea that can be urged in support of any demand whatever.

Mr. HARTLEY supported the memorial. He gave the officers great credit for their bravery, services, and attachment to the cause of their country. He dilated on the hardships and sufferings they endured; he adverted to the advantages they derived from captures, which he stated to be very inconsiderable. Their claims, said he, appear to me to be founded on the the strictest and most impartial justice; he hoped, therefore, that the report would be accepted, and a committee appointed to bring in a bill accordingly.

Mr. BALDWIN, who was one of the select committee which made the report, stated some of the reasons which influenced the committee; also the considerations which were supposed to have led to the distinction between the navy and army, in respect to commutation--one of which was, that the officers of the navy were in the line of their particular calling, and which they were enabled to pursue with perhaps greater advantages than they ever did before. Other circumstances were mentioned by him, tending to invalidate their claim.

Mr. SHERMAN observed, that if this report is adopted, it will open a very wide door indeed to applications for half pay or commutation. He then gave a history of the origin of commutation or half pay, which, he said, was considered at the time as a measure of necessity, and not of justice; and has been very much complained of by several of the States. The above necessity did not exist with respect to the officers of the navy, as, at the time, there were but two or three ships in service. From this state of facts, he inferred that no precedent could be drawn in favor of extending the commutation to the officers of the navy. He thought that their case was entitled to the consideration of the Legislature, on the principles of equity; he should, therefore, be for the committee's making full inquiry into the circumstances of the whole business, and making such provision as justice should point out; but he was against the report in its present latitude.

Mr. BURKE replied to the observations of Mr. BALDWIN, respecting the officers of the navy being in the way of their profession; and, from the nature of the service, he showed that there was little weight in the observation. Their circumstances were very much altered for the worse, and they were now left in a very destitute situation; whereas the officers of the army are enjoying posts and places of honor and profit. Their silence on the subject has been mentioned. He observed that their dispersed situation had been the principal reason of their not coming forward with their petition before. Mr. B. observed, that the officers of the navy were not treated like other prisoners when they were taken; they suffered peculiarly, not as prisoners of war, but were treated like rebels, whose crimes were of the blackest nature.

Mr. SENEY said he was, and always had been an advocate for the claims of the officers of the navy: he thought their memorial founded on the strictest justice. He introduced the representation to Congress of the "illustrious" Commander-in-chief of the late army, on the subject of half pay and pensions, which he read. He then entered into a comparative view of the relative merits of the army and navy; and said it was well known that many of them made as great sacrifices as the other description of officers. With respect to prize money, he doubted whether they had ever been benefited by it. In some instances, where they had expected the most, they had, through the failure of agents, received only a certificate, worth about five shillings in the pound; and that received only for a part of what was due. He replied to the several objections which had been offered, and concluded by saying it would be unjust and impolitic not to grant their claims.

Mr. SEDGWICK observed, that no gentleman in the committee had deeper impressions made upon him, by the grateful recollection of the merits and services of those brave men to whom America owed its freedom, than himself. Yet, under the present circumstances of the country, he thought it a duty he owed the people who had confided their interest to his management, to examine, on principle, the demands which were made upon the Government for pecuniary grants. The applicants in the present instance, did not place their demand on the ground of contract. For the contract, under which the services had been rendered, had been complied with according to the specified terms, and performed to the extent of the powers of the Government, in the same manner as other claims of a similar nature had been satisfied. It was further, he said, to be noticed, that during the time those services were performing, no dissatisfaction had been manifested by the present memorialists. From these observations, then, it clearly followed, that, in point of contract, the claims of the officers of the navy were in all respects similar to those of every other individual in the community, who had received satisfaction by the same means. It would then become gentlemen to reflect on the consequences which would result from the establishment of a precedent, which would go to the invalidation of all the final settlements which had been made.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, gentlemen had supported the claim of the applicants from a supposed analogy of their circumstances to those of the gentlemen of the army. He said there was the difference which arose from the circumstance already mentioned. The commutation was founded in contract; the present claim was destitute of that support. There were also other material circumstances which very widely differed in the two cases. The officers of the army were called from pursuits by which they were enabled to support and provide for their families, and to abandon their prospects of establishment by the business to which they had been educated. On the other hand, the gentlemen of the navy were promised handsome wages for continuing in that business to which they had been educated, and for which they were best, if not only qualified; and this, too, at a time when, by the destruction of our commerce, many of them otherwise must have wanted employment. They had likewise additional encouragement from a participation in the avails of prizes, while the army derived no emolument from any such source. That the report of the Select Committee being unsupported either on the ground of contract, or the principles on which the grant to the officers of the army was made, the application was merely to the generosity of the Government. He said it was a principle, from which he professed himself determined never to depart, not to dissipate that property in idle or visionary projects of generosity, which is necessary to the performance of justice. That the arduous scenes in which we had been engaged, had imposed the necessity of practising a rigid economy. That the conduct which we might, under present embarrassments, pursue, it would be improper hereafter to consider as a precedent. That it would, indeed, be a noble and generous sentiment to compensate all those losses which our friends had sustained by the war. But he asked, if such would not be a vain attempt? Can we compensate all the desolation of fire and wanton depredation, provoked from the enemy by the patriotism of particular districts in this country? Can we retribute the sufferings which have been caused by the depreciation of our currency? Or the ruin of thousands and thousands by our delays of payment, and the consequent depreciation of our securities? Can we administer to the relief of the vast number of widows and orphans, who, from those circumstances, have been reduced from affluence to want and beggary? Remember, too, he said, the sages, who, in the hour of danger, watched over your security; and who, in their best days, abstracted themselves from every lucrative pursuit, and devoted all their time and talents to the service of their country. These patriots, now in the evening of life, are the most meritorious objects of the generosity of the Government, yet they would nobly disdain to ask, or to receive the aid of the Government, however necessary to them, until efficient provision was made for the performance of those contracts, which we are under the most solemn obligation, if in our power, to fulfil. And he concluded by observing, that when the improving resources of our country should enable the Government generously to compensate the sufferings of those several descriptions of persons, then, and not till then, might we extend to the memorialists the relief which they now sought for.

Mr. JACKSON supported the claim of the officers. He observed, that if the country had not derived so extensive advantages from the exertions of the navy, it must be imputed to peculiar circumstances, and not to any deficiency in the officers and sailors; so far as their abilities could be exerted, no men distinguished themselves more. Had ours been a maritime instead of an agricultural country, the importance of a navy would have struck us more forcibly. Their claims he considered as founded in the strictest justice, and he had no doubt that if they had applied to the old Congress they would have granted their request; but restrained by a consideration of the embarrassments of the United States, they did not obtrude their petitions upon them; and now this very circumstance is urged as a reason for not granting their petition. In his opinion, this did them great honor; since that time, they have been scattered through all parts of the Union. This and other circumstances have delayed their application to this time, but have not lessened the equity of it. He added many other observations, and concluded by saying that he was fully in favor of the report.

FRIDAY, June 25.

Foreign Intercourse.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments last proposed on the part of the Senate to the bill providing the means of intercourse between the United States and foreign nations. The first amendment was to strike out thirty thousand, and to insert forty thousand dollars.

It was moved that the House should agree to this amendment; this motion was opposed.

It was said that the committee had exceeded their commission in proposing this alteration in the bill, as both Houses had agreed in the sum of thirty thousand dollars. It was further said that more than one Minister Plenipotentiary was unnecessary; that the Court of Great Britain had sent only a Consul to this country; and that, from the present appearances, no advantages could be expected to arise from sending a Minister, equivalent to the expense; the necessity contended for is merely conjectural; and by that rule, the Ministers Plenipotentiary may be increased, and one sent to Spain and another to Portugal. If only one Minister is sent to Europe, the first sum will be sufficient; with respect to the Court of London, a Chargé des Affaires will answer every purpose.

In support of the motion, it was urged that the President of the United States is, by the constitution, vested with the power of appointing such foreign officers as he may think necessary, and it must devolve upon the Legislature to make provision for defraying the expense. The Committee of Conference did not rely on their own judgment, they consulted the Secretary of Foreign Affairs. His opinion was, that in the present situation of this country with respect to foreign nations, two Ministers and two Chargés des Affaires were necessary; a Minister at the Court of Versailles is generally conceded to be requisite. The peculiar situation of this country with respect to the posts, the Northern and Eastern frontiers, and the state of our commerce in respect to Great Britain, can scarcely leave a doubt of the necessity and importance of sending a Minister to that country. This being the state of affairs, a less sum than that proposed, it is demonstrably evident, will not be found adequate.

The question on concurring in this amendment was carried in the affirmative.

The other amendments were agreed to, with amendments.

TUESDAY, July 6.

Seat of Government.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill sent from the Senate for establishing the temporary and permanent seat of the Government of the United States, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

Mr. SHERMAN.--As this bill respects the permanent residence of the Government, which is an important subject, it ought to be a matter of inquiry, whether the place proposed is the real centre of population and territory or not? He thought it too far southward. He moved, therefore, that the Potomac should be struck out, and a district to include the town of Baltimore be inserted.

Mr. BURKE seconded this motion.

Mr. LEE desired the gentleman to inform the committee where he meant the temporary residence should be, provided this motion should be carried.

Mr. SHERMAN said, he had no objection to making Philadelphia the temporary residence, as soon as it was convenient. He then mentioned several particulars which would render it inconvenient to go there at present.

Mr. HUNTINGTON said, that the only reason for removing, which he had ever heard was, that this place is not so central. If there is any force in the reasoning, he wished not to go to a place less central. He adverted to the mode of conveyance to this place, generally adopted by members to get to the seat of Government. He supposed that the present centre was somewhere between Philadelphia and Baltimore; but the place contemplated is very much removed from the centre, more than three hundred miles west. With respect to centrality, he said that it is not an idea which predominates in regard to any other country of which he knew any thing respecting the geography; other and various important considerations operated in fixing the seat of Government.

Mr. WHITE observed, that if this House was alone to be consulted, on the principle of accommodation, Baltimore might answer; but when it is considered that this bill originated in the other House, who have an equal voice with us in determining the question, and in which this place has been repeatedly rejected, it is evident, that, if the clause is struck out the bill will be lost. He then controverted the calculations of the gentleman last speaking, and stated the difference of travel between the Southern and Northern distances, which is made to be as four and one-half to one; but he said, that so far as respected himself, he should make no difficulty on that account; but the accommodation of the citizens who may have business at the seat of Government is a consideration of very great importance. With respect to the uncentral situation of the seat of Government in other countries, this arose from the mere whims of the sovereigns of those kingdoms; but modern policy has obliged the people of European countries, (I refer particularly to Great Britain,) to fix the seat of Government near the centre of trade. It is the commercial importance of the city of London which makes it the seat of Government; and what is the consequence? London and Westminster, though they united send only six members to Parliament, have a greater influence on the measures of Government than the whole empire besides. This is a situation in which we never wish to see this country placed. He concluded by observing, that if this amendment is agreed to, the bill will be lost, and we shall be without either a temporary or permanent residence.

Mr. LEE, after a few introductory observations, entered into a consideration of the relative interests of the Southern, Middle, and Northern States. He interspersed a variety of reflections, tending to conciliate and blend those different interests--and to disseminate the sentiments of union and concord. He alluded particularly to the great object of funding the debts of the United States; the seat of Government will concentrate the public paper. Hence he inferred the necessity of a situation from whence all parts of the Union may be equally benefited. From these considerations, he deduced the necessity of placing the Government in a central situation. He observed, that while the present position continued to be the seat of Government, the agriculture of the States to the eastward is invigorated and encouraged, while that to the southward is languishing and expiring. He then showed the fatal tendency of this preponderating encouragement to those parts of the country, already considered as the strongest parts of the Union--and from the natural operation of these principles he inferred that the interest of the Southern States must be eventually swallowed up. The decision of the Senate, said he, affords a most favorable opportunity to manifest that magnanimity of soul, which shall embrace, upon an extensive, liberal system, the best interest of the great whole. This cannot be done while the present unequal situation of the seat of Government of the United States continues. Nations have their passions as well as individuals. He drew an alarming picture of the consequences to be apprehended from disunion, ambition and rivalship. He then gave a pleasing sketch of the happy effects to be derived from a national, generous, and equal attention to the Southern and Northern interests. Will gentlemen, said he, blast this prospect by rejecting the bill? I trust they will not.

He then entered into the merits of the question. The States of Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia, which contribute more than one-half to the revenue, and which have the only rival claim to the permanent seat of Government, are satisfied with the arrangement in the bill. That Philadelphia is the nearest centre of the present wealth and population of the United States, the gentlemen from New York themselves will confess; the Potomac will become the nearest centre for a permanent residence probably by the period proposed--to oppose this, therefore, will be acting from merely local motives.

The gentleman moves to insert Baltimore. Mr. L. insisted that Baltimore is as far South as the place proposed, besides being exposed by its frontier position on the sea; we are not confined, said he, to a particular spot on the Potomac; we may fix on a place as far North as the gentleman from Connecticut wishes. I consider the motion, therefore, calculated to destroy the bill, and ought to be opposed by every one who is in favor of a Southern situation.

This State has no pretensions to the permanent residence. It is true the citizens of this place have put themselves to a great expense to accommodate the Government, and are entitled to much praise for their exertions; but he wished to take up the subject on national ground, and to have it decided on principles which apply to the best interests of the whole. He then referred to a map of the Potomac, and the adjacent country, which lay on the table, and which had been sent from the Executive of the State of Virginia. He referred also to other papers and documents.

Mr. BURKE said, he wished that the whole business of the temporary and permanent residence might now be settled. He exculpated the members who are in favor of Baltimore from all design to defeat the present bill. He referred to some observations which had been made on the conduct of the members of the States south of Virginia, and said, that they had consulted the interest of the whole. One reason why he was in favor of the motion was, because he preferred Baltimore to Conococheague. He thought a populous city better than building a palace in the woods. Another reason was, that there was no political necessity existing for removing the Government from New York to Philadelphia. He said that the measure would excite the most turbulent passions in the minds of the citizens. It is unjust to the people of this city, to remove from this place till the expense they have incurred is repaid them. It is a breach of honesty and justice. It is injustice to the State--to the whole nation. He entered into a consideration of their sacrifices and services. He thought it a very extraordinary measure indeed. It is calculated, said he, to arrest the funding system, and to throw every thing into confusion. If the bill is passed in its present form, Congress will never leave Philadelphia; for the Commissioners to be appointed will incur no penalty for a neglect of doing their duty. This is a most essential defect in the bill, and there are other defects in it. He spoke in handsome terms of the State of Pennsylvania. He said he had as high an opinion of that State, as any man whatever, but he was afraid of their influence; and that State was the last in which he would ever consent the permanent seat of Government should be. He then adverted to the influence of the members from that State, who by their political management, had raised a storm in the United States. [Here Mr. BURKE was called to order.] After a short interruption, he proceeded, and said a Quaker State was a bad neighborhood for the South Carolinians. Here he adverted to the Quaker business last winter. He objected to Philadelphia, also, on account of there being no gallery in the House proposed for the accommodation of Congress--an open gallery he considered as a very important check to the Legislature.

Mr. LAWRENCE.--The gentleman from Virginia has observed, that the object of the amendment is to defeat the bill. He has also mentioned the States which are most particularly interested in the question. Mr. L. said, the State of New York might have been considered. He wished the motion might succeed, because he thought that it would conduce to the peace of the Union. He objected to the place proposed for the permanent residence; by the bill it is conceded that the place is not, at present, a suitable position. By what magic can it be made to appear it will be more proper at the end of ten years? What reason can be given why those parts of the Union should not populate which are at a distance from the Potomac, in proportion to those parts in the vicinity of that place? I presume none can be assigned. Why, then, is a period of ten years to expire, previous to going there? The reason is plain. The people would not now consent to have the Government dragged to so remote a part of the United States. He then adverted to the funding business, and other important matters which remain to be decided on, and very strongly intimated that these questions were to be determined agreeable to the fate of this bill. He showed, from a variety of particulars, that Philadelphia would become the permanent residence. He then adverted particularly to the several parts of the bill. The first was respecting the place where it is proposed to erect the public buildings. He said, they could not be erected within the time mentioned, and showed the various difficulties which would attend the whole business. He then stated the advantages of Baltimore, and said that that place would have obtained in the Senate, if the Maryland Senators would have voted for it. He concluded by observing, that, as no necessity exists for removing the temporary residence, he hoped that Congress would sit down contented where they are.

Mr. BLOODWORTH observed, that as the funding bill had been alluded to, he could wish that the objection from that quarter might be taken out of the way. He moved that the committee should rise, in order to take up the ways and means.

Mr. STONE.--All we seem to differ about is whether Baltimore or the Potomac shall be the seat of the Government; and if this was all, the Delegates of that State might fold their arms and sit down contented; but the State of Maryland has been placed in the situation of Tantalus. He then stated how the gentlemen had formerly voted, who now appear in favor of Baltimore. Had the bill come down from the Senate with Baltimore inserted, instead of Potomac, he should have had no difficulty in determining how to act; but he conceived, that if the amendment now proposed should take place, nothing would be done, and the business will be left in a very inauspicious state. From this and other considerations, he was resolved not to be drawn off from his present determination by any motion, amendment, or modification of the bill whatever. With respect to himself, he had no election between the town of Baltimore and the Potomac; yet, as a Marylander, he would, if he saw a prospect of success, vote for the town of Baltimore; but as it respects the United States, he should vote for the Potomac; and on this idea he was willing to make some sacrifices. He considered the subject as one of the most painful and disagreeable that could be agitated, and he wished to have the business finally and unalterably fixed.

Mr. SENEY also considered this as an unhappy question to come before the House at this time. The State of Maryland is as much divided on the subject as the United States appeared to be; a great rivalship subsists between the Potomac and Susquehanna rivers, and he doubted not but that when the question was ultimately decided, it would be either on the one or the other of those rivers. He agreed with Mr. LEE, that Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia, were the only States who could make any reasonable pretensions for the seat of Government; but a majority of voices from these States had been against the Potomac. Pennsylvania and Maryland, he observed, had given the preference to the Susquehanna. Mr. S. then noticed some transactions of the Legislature of Maryland, which he said clearly evinced their determination to support the pretensions of the Susquehanna. Maryland certainly had an equal right with Pennsylvania and Virginia to have her interests consulted. The interests of Maryland, it appeared, were now to be sacrificed to those two adjoining States. And however flattering it may seem to Maryland to fix the seat of Government on her side of the Potomac, the real advantages were in a great measure nugatory, as it would be but a very small portion of that State that could reap any benefit therefrom. The real advantages would undoubtedly result to Pennsylvania and Virginia. It appeared somewhat extraordinary to him, that gentlemen should be willing to confine the residence to a particular spot, previous to their removing to a permanent residence. Why is it necessary to fix upon Philadelphia for ten years? Surely this is putting the Government in a very ineligible situation, for it is by no means improbable that many serious and important occurrences might render a removal highly expedient, perhaps unavoidable. Besides, after the Government shall have remained ten years in Philadelphia, the probability of quitting it for the Potomac appeared to be very slight indeed. For though it was understood by the bill that the offices were to be removed to the Potomac, yet if a majority in either House were opposed to going there, Congress would remain at Philadelphia, and they would be obliged to repeal the bill from necessity.

Mr. SCOTT said, he should not notice many things which had been offered on the subject. He would only observe, that from the town of Baltimore there is no water conveyance to the interior country; but from the proposed site on the Potomac, there are two hundred miles navigation directly into the heart of the country. Nor is Baltimore more northerly than the position contemplated. A connection with the Western country is of the utmost consequence to the peace and union of the United States, let the gentlemen from the sea-coast say what they will.

Mr. MADISON.--In order to decide this question rightly, we ought to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the two places as they relate to the good of the United States. Now, I will defy any gentleman, however sanguine he may be with respect to Baltimore, to point out any substantial advantage that is not common to the Potomac; and I defy them to disprove that there are not several important advantages belonging to the Potomac, which do not appertain to Baltimore. The committee have had ample information with respect to the Northern and Southern positions of the two places. In point of salubrity of air, without disparaging the pretensions of Baltimore, the Potomac is at least equally favored in that respect. In regard to centrality of situation, the Potomac has undoubtedly the advantage. In respect to security from invasion, I aver the Potomac has the advantage also. With relation to the Western country, there is not a shadow of comparison. If we should go as far South as Baltimore, why not an equal distance south-west to the Potomac? Those who are acquainted with the country on the Potomac, and that in the neighborhood of Baltimore, do not hesitate to give the preference to the Potomac. It is true, that Baltimore has respectable resources; her rapid growth is a clear proof of it; but look at the resources of the Potomac; the great range of rich country that borders on it, and see if these are not advantages that must, in a short time, produce a commercial town. Sir, a period might be named, not exceeding ten years, within which the town of Baltimore obtained the greater part of its increase and consequence; a period of ten years will produce the same effects on the Potomac, because the same causes exist; and when, superadded to this, the residence of Government shall be there, there can be no doubt but that there will be every accommodation that can be desired.

It is said, that before the ten years expire, a repeal of the act may take place, and thus Congress be kept at Philadelphia. But what more can we do than pass a law for the purpose? It is not in our power to guard against a repeal. Our acts are not like those of the Medes and Persians, unalterable. A repeal is a thing against which no provision can be made. If that is an objection, it holds good against any law that can be passed. If those States that may have a superiority in Congress at a future day will pay no respect to the acts of their predecessors, or to the public good, there is no power to compel them.

But I flatter myself that some respect will be paid to the public interest, and to the plighted faith of the Government. As to centrality, the best evidence we have at this time in favor of the Potomac is the different travelling of the members; and this, sir, proves incontestably that the proposed place on the Potomac is near the centre. If any arguments could be brought against it, it is its being too far to the northward. For the mileage south of the Potomac is twelve thousand seven hundred and eighty-two miles, to the north of it twelve thousand four hundred and twenty-two miles. If to this Rhode Island be added, it will not be more than equal. If the bill once passes, I am not under any apprehensions of a repeal; but if danger of repeal does exist, it is of that kind against which we cannot guard. Sir, we should calculate on accepting the bill as it now stands; we ought not to risk it by making any amendment. We have it now in our power to procure a Southern position. The opportunity may not again speedily present itself. We know the various and jealous interests that exist on this subject. We should hazard nothing. If the Potomac is struck out, are you sure of getting Baltimore? May no other place be proposed? Instead of Baltimore, is it not probable we may have Susquehanna inserted, perhaps the Delaware? Make any amendment, sir, and the bill will go back to the Senate. Are we sure that it will come back into our possession again? By amending, we give up a certainty for an uncertainty. In my opinion, we shall act wisely, if we accept the bill as it now stands, and I beg leave to press it on gentlemen not to consent to any alteration, lest it be wholly defeated and the prospect of obtaining a Southern position vanish for ever.

Mr. GERRY said, he rose with greater reluctance on this than he ever did on any former occasion; and it is because it appears pretty evident the advocates of the bill are sure of a majority, and are determined not to change their minds let what arguments will be offered on the subject. The business of establishing the permanent residence is contrary to the sentiments of a majority of the members of this House, and of the Senate, as they have both negatived a bill for this purpose the present session. It is to be regretted that it has ever been brought forward, for it is very evident that it has had a very pernicious influence on the great business of funding the public debt. He then mentioned the former removals of Congress, which had never been complained of, as the public business was never neglected. He said, that if the present bill is carried into execution, a very great uneasiness will ensue; for the measures of Congress, and not their residence, are the objects of concern to the people. Those States who think that they shall be injured, it cannot be expected will then acquiesce. He then gave an account of the process of this measure the last session. The travelling has been mentioned. This, he said, could not be considered as an argument in favor of the bill, for the expense is not paid by particular States, it comes out of the common treasury. He asserted that the accessibility to New York is better than to the Potomac. He contended that the risk by land is greater than by water. He stated the advantages that the Southern members derived from coming to the northward, while, on the other hand, is there, asked he, any thing to balance the risk and difficulties which the Northern members must encounter in such a Southern situation? He said it was highly unreasonable to fix the seat of Government in such a position as to have nine States out of thirteen to the northward of the place. He adverted to the sacrifices which the Northern States are ready to make in being willing to go so far south as Baltimore. He contended that the explicit consent of the Eastern States ought to be obtained, before they are dragged still further south. He ridiculed the idea of fixing the Government at Conococheague. He did not think there was any serious intention of ever going to this Indian place. He considered the whole business as a mere manoeuvre. Baltimore holds out the only prospect of a permanent seat of Government. He recapitulated the account which before had been given. From this he adverted to the general expectation of the public with respect to the Government's tarrying here till the permanent seat was established. He particularized the expenses that had been incurred by the citizens, and for which they merited great honor. He said, it had been promised to New York that this place should be the temporary residence of Congress, and on this engagement they came into an unconditional adoption of the constitution. Should this bill pass, what can it be denominated but a delusion, a deception, sanctioned by Congress itself? He remarked on the several observations offered by Messrs. MADISON, LEE, STONE, and SCOTT.

Mr. VINING.--When I find arguments made use of to inflame the minds of gentlemen against the members of this House, I think it my duty to notice such observations. Attempts are made to hold up, in an odious point of light, the members of Pennsylvania. Sir, it is a fact, which your Journals will justify, that the members from Pennsylvania voted the last session against Philadelphia. I trust that none of those observations will have the least influence on the mind of one single individual. We are sent here to do the public business, and I trust that our constituents have not sent men that are to be deterred from doing their duty by such insidious insinuations, such ill-founded suggestions of deceiving and deluding the citizens of this place. Mr. V. added some more strictures on Mr. GERRY's observations, and then entered largely into the merits of the question. He supported the bill on general principles, and noticed the several objections that had been made by different members. He imputed the embarrassments of the public business to the assumption, and not to the subject of residence.

Mr. CLYMER made a few remarks on the observations of Mr. BURKE, which were not distinctly heard.

The committee rose, and reported progress

WEDNESDAY, July 7.

Seat of Government.

The House again resolved itself into a committee on the bill for establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

Mr. BURKE made some remarks on the observations of Mr. VINING, in which he exculpated himself from all design to excite mobs and tumults among the citizens of New York, as had been insinuated by that gentleman. He declared that he believed the citizens incapable of behaving so much out of character. For himself, he disclaimed any such idea. He further observed, that the delegates from Pennsylvania were fully competent to advocate the interests of their particular State; they had given abundant evidence of their abilities; they therefore did not need the assistance of the gentleman from Delaware.

Mr. HARTLEY observed, that it was the fault of the New York Senators last year that they did not vote for a four years' residence in their own city, and the permanent one at Germantown, which they could then have carried. He defended himself and his colleagues from any charge of want of generosity, and also defended the character of the Quakers. The gentleman (Mr. BURKE) is not acquainted with the people called Quakers or their history, or he would entertain different sentiments concerning them. Under the famous William Penn, they settled the former Province of Pennsylvania, between the years 1680 and 1690, near the close of the last century; and such was their justice, wisdom, moderation and good policy, that they gained reputation abroad. Men emigrated from the European world to this land of freedom. They preserved peace at home; for it was not until the year 1753, in a war, fomented on the borders of another Province, that an inhabitant of Pennsylvania was killed by the hands of an Indian. The Quakers had always been remarkable for their moral laws, for the plainness of their manners, and their benevolence. Nay, should the gentleman go to Philadelphia, he will find that these people will treat him as well as any other society. They merit not the abuse which has been so frequently thrown upon them.

Mr. BLOODWORTH thought that if the New York Senators had acted wrong, yet the people should not be blamed for it. The proposition of Mr. BURKE was so reasonable and just, that he said he could not avoid approving of it.

Mr. LAWRENCE defended the New York Senators, and explained the reasons of their former conduct, which, when it was known, he believed, would rather merit the approbation of the people. He then proceeded to remark upon the conduct of New York during the war and since. Her revenue had been thrown into the Treasury of the United States, and every succor that could possibly be expected was received from her. Upon the whole, he wished the dispute of residence could be left to the decision of the three Northern and three Southern States; and he appealed to the House, as politicians and men, for the justice of the case.

Mr. WADSWORTH rose next. He was proceeding when he was called to order. After some altercation on the question of order,

Mr. PAGE spoke to the merits of the question, in which he introduced several conciliatory observations, and then added, as to the place for the permanent residence of Congress, any unprejudiced disinterested man in the world, looking over the map of the United States, would put his finger on the district pointed out in the bill, and say, "This is your place, sir." As to going to Philadelphia, it is not my wish to go and stay there as proposed in the bill; but I say, with my colleague, (Mr. MADISON,) that I consent to go there to get into a more central position, and to be fairly on our way to the permanent residence on the Potomac. As to our present situation, the citizens of New York themselves acknowledge, nay, even the member himself who has called me to order, acknowledges that it has no pretensions to be the permanent residence; and it must be confessed that in proportion as it is improper for the permanent residence, it must be improper for the temporary residence. The continuance of Congress here has been acquiesced in by the Southern States, merely on the supposition that a removal to the permanent residence would take place sooner if Congress sat here than at some other place more central. The wise and virtuous citizens of New York know this, and cannot resist the removal.

Sir, I was not apprehensive that the observations made by gentlemen yesterday could excite an improper resentment in their minds. There is not a city in the world in which I would sooner trust myself and Congress than in New York; for it is superior to any place I know for the orderly and decent behavior of its inhabitants; but, sir, when the member behind me, (Mr. BURKE,) who alluded to me when he was last up, said that they were injured and robbed by Congress, I told him, as a friend, that had I been in the chair, I should have called him to order.

I confess I was shocked to hear that gentleman's declarations repeated by a member on the other side of the House, who is remarkable for his coolness and his peculiar attention to every sentiment offered in debate (Mr. GERRY.) I took the liberty, when the House adjourned, to tell that gentleman, perhaps too freely, what I thought respecting those declarations; if I gave him, or the member behind me any offence, I ask their pardon; but I still think I should have done my duty had I taken notice of the impropriety of their declarations in my place in the House, as a friend to order and freedom of debate.

Mr. LIVERMORE said, that the motion for striking out the Potomac and inserting Baltimore is so reasonable in itself, that I cannot conceive there should be one person opposed to it. He observed, that Baltimore is as far south as the Potomac; the members will then have as far to go to one as the other. There is a river, it is said, which runs two hundred miles into the country as far as the Allegany mountains; what advantage can this be to Congress? I can conceive none, except that it may be to send the acts of Congress by water to the foot of the Allegany mountains. He thought that the centre of population was the only true centre. It is not pretended that the Potomac is at present this centre; but it is said that it will in time become the centre of population. What reason is there for any such supposition? The place in which this favorite spot is has been as long settled as any other part of the Continent, but the population has not kept pace with many other parts of the United States; it is therefore entirely chimerical and problematical whether it ever will become the centre of population. He then enlarged on the superior advantages of a populous city for the seat of Government, and concluded by repeating that the amendment is so reasonable in itself that he hoped every member of the committee would vote for it.

Mr. GERRY.--In discussing this subject yesterday, I made use of such arguments as appeared to me pertinent to the occasion. But, sir, those arguments have had the most extraordinary construction put on them by the gentleman from Delaware; they have been represented as tending to excite mobs, and to raise insurrections in this city. Sir, I insist that the observations I made had a direct contrary tendency. I said that the bill contained those malignant principles which had a direct tendency to agitate and inflame the minds of the citizens of America. Those principles I was endeavoring to expose, and to show what must be their obvious effects. Is this exciting mobs? Directly the reverse, in my opinion. I never had any such idea; and as to the citizens of New York, I have too just a sense of their wisdom and good judgment to harbor such a sentiment. He then adverted to the constitution, to show that there could be no danger of an insurrection or rebellion against the Government. Congress is vested with a sufficient power to protect themselves from every insult whatever; they have a right to call forth the whole militia of the Union for their protection. [Here Mr. G. was called to order, and some altercation ensuing, Mr. G. said he would say nothing farther on this particular topic.] He then proceeded to state his arguments against the Potomac, in the course of which he noticed some observations which had fallen from Messrs. VINING and CLYMER. One of the gentlemen had said that "Pennsylvania had a right to the seat of the General Government." This he denied; he said no State in the Union could pretend to such a right; Congress alone has a right to determine where the seat of Government shall be. He entered into a lengthy discussion on the merits of the Potomac, and among other observations asserted that taking so southern a situation would amount to a disqualification of many of the Northern members, who would forego their election rather than attend the National Legislature on that river.

Mr. VINING read a report of a committee of the late Congress, respecting two seats of Government, in which report Georgetown was mentioned. Mr. GERRY, being one of this committee, rose to explain.

Mr. SEDGWICK, in a speech of considerable length, stated his objections to so southern a situation as either Baltimore or the Potomac, and said that he should have the unhappiness, he feared, of dividing on the question from his colleagues.

Mr. SHERMAN offered some calculations respecting distances, and made Baltimore to be the nearest to the centre of any other place that had been mentioned.

Mr. WHITE said, he had no idea of altering the sentiments of a single member of the committee; he did not expect the gentleman from New Hampshire would agree with him. The gentleman from Massachusetts had said something about the Government going into the wilderness; he said it was true that there was not at present every accommodation which gentlemen might wish; but there is every probability that there will be. He said that such improvements were making in the navigation of the Potomac as will render it a place affording every accommodation whether Congress go there or not. He instanced several places on the Potomac which were at this day sufficiently populous to accommodate Congress. He then adverted to situations, and observed that a line from the Atlantic, east and west, to the extreme point mentioned in the bill, will intersect the State of New Jersey, include the whole of Delaware and Maryland, and will throw thirty-one members of the representation in the southern division of the United States. He then observed, that after the present ferment is subsided, this position will be considered as a permanent bond of union; and the Eastern States will find their most essential interests promoted by the measure. He adverted to the trade of Massachusetts, which he said was greater to Virginia than to the whole Union besides; the Southern States will be cordial in promoting their shipping and advancing their interests, when they observe that the principles of justice influence them on this great national question.

He then remarked on the observation of Mr. SHERMAN respecting the repealing of the law, and reprobated the principles on which such observations are founded; he remarked on the attraction of populous cities, and trusted that other ideas would prevail in this country than what influenced in fixing the seats of Government in Europe.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said, he was in favor of the motion, as the only one which held out a probability of ever fixing on a southern residence. He enlarged on the difficulty and improbability of ever removing from Philadelphia. He said that it was evident, from the present representation, and what is most likely it will be ten years hence, that Congress could not be removed from that place. He then stated the number of the members to the southward and northward of Philadelphia, and observed that the Congress that would exist at the expiration of ten years may think entirely different from the present, and will not think themselves bound by the law; but if they should, what can the measure be denominated but legislating for the next century? A system proposed the last session, which combined a much greater interest than the present, failed; and what reason have we to suppose that this bill will ever be carried into execution? He said no gentleman pretends that the place proposed is now ready for the reception of the Government; and even if the buildings were now erected, is there any gentleman who would give his vote for going there? He would agree to a place in the neighborhood of Baltimore, and this he supposed was the furthest southern position the gentlemen from the eastward will ever consent to. From all the views he could take of the measure, he was fully convinced that the Potomac was tacked to the bill merely to carry Philadelphia; he wished gentlemen seriously to consider the consequences of passing a law which would so intimately and inauspiciously affect the interests of so many people.

Mr. MADISON objected to the motion for inserting Baltimore, as it would be risking the bill with a place which has already been repeatedly rejected by the Senate; he religiously believed, he said, that if Baltimore was inserted the bill would never pass the Senate; and the fate of the bill which the gentleman mentions ought to be a serious warning to us never to risk this with an amendment; the instance, therefore, produced by the gentleman, is very much against his own argument.

The question being put for striking out the word "Potomac," and inserting "Baltimore," it was negatived--37 to 23.

THURSDAY, July 8.

General Post Office.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to the bill to establish the Post Office and post roads within the United States.

The first amendment was to strike out the first and second sections, which specified and established the several roads, and to insert a clause empowering the Postmaster General, under the direction of the President of the United States, to establish them.

A concurrence in this amendment was opposed by Messrs. BLOODWORTH, WHITE, STEELE, LIVERMORE, HARTLEY, and GERRY.

It was said, that it was delegating the power of legislation to the Supreme Executive in one of the most important points that could be mentioned. The revenue also will centre in the hands of the Executive; and in process of time this revenue may be converted into an engine destructive to the liberties of the United States; for as it is a perpetual law, and as the time may, and probably will come, when the Executive may be corrupt, as the revenue increases, the officers of the department will be increased, and we do not know to what extent the consequences may be carried. It is unconstitutional, as that expressly reserves the power of establishing Post Offices and post roads to the Legislature. It was further observed, it would be throwing a burden upon the President which he cannot execute with any convenience to himself, and, from his situation, with satisfaction to the people. The representatives of the people, who come from all parts of the United States, must be supposed to have a more competent knowledge of the proper places for establishing post roads than the Postmaster General.

A concurrence was advocated by Mr. PARTRIDGE, and Mr. SEDGWICK.

It was said, that upon an accurate calculation it was found that the roads proposed by the bill as it passed the House, are so numerous, that so far from affording a revenue, they will prove a great burden to the United States. The circumstances of the country are continually changing; the seats of Government in the several States are removed from their ancient situations to one hundred miles' distance; to accommodate the people in such cases, old routes must be discontinued and new roads opened, which will be a perpetual source of legislation and unnecessary expense. This business was left to the Postmaster General by the late Congress, and very few complaints were heard; the Postmaster General, by his office, must be the most competent judge, as the business will be a principal object of his attention, and actual surveys of the roads will be made by his assistants in all parts of the United States; but if the responsibility of this officer is divided into sixty-five parts, every one of which has its own particular convenience in view, it must appear evident that all responsibility is entirely dissipated. As to the unconstitutionality, it was said that the bill proposes no more in the present instance than is provided for in the other Executive Departments; the principles of conducting the business are established by the House; the mode of carrying those principles into execution is left with the Executive, and this of necessity is done in almost every case whatever. The House adjourned without coming to a vote.

FRIDAY, July 9.

Seat of Government.

The House proceeded to consider the bill sent from the Senate for the establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government of the United States.

Mr. BOUDINOT, after expressing his disapprobation of the bill generally, moved that the Potomac should be struck out and the Delaware inserted, and called for the yeas and nays; after some debate, this motion was negatived, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Huntington, Hathorn, Leonard, Lawrence, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer, Trumbull, Schureman, Sherman, Sylvester, Sturges, Sedgwick, Wadsworth--22.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gilman, Heister, Hartley, Jackson, Gale, Griffin, P. Muhlenberg, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Page, Parker, Lee, Steele, Scott, Sinnickson, Stone, Sevier, Seney, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, Thatcher, Tucker, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop--39.

Mr. AMES moved to strike out Potomac and insert Germantown, as the permanent residence. Yeas 22, nays 39.

Variation--Mr. GILMAN, yea; Mr. TRUMBULL, nay.

Mr. SMITH (of Maryland) moved to strike out Potomac and insert between the Potomac and Susquehanna. Yeas 25, nays 36.

Variation--Messrs. SMITH, (of Maryland,) SMITH, (of South Carolina,) TRUMBULL, and THATCHER, yea; Mr. SHERMAN, nay.

Mr. LAWRENCE moved to strike out Potomac and insert Baltimore.

YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Hathorn, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Rensselaer, Partridge, Schureman, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sylvester, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth--26.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gilman, Gale, Griffin, Hartley, Heister, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Scott, Sevier, Sumter, Sinnickson, Steele, Stone, Tucker, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop--34.

A motion was made to adjourn; which was also negatived.

The bill was then read the third time; and on the question, Shall the bill pass? the yeas and nays were as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gale, Griffin, Hartley, Heister, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Scott, Sevier, Sinnickson, Steele, Stone, Sumter, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop--32.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Burke, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Gilman, Grout, Hathorn, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer, Schureman, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth--29.[37]

THURSDAY, August 12.

Agreeably to the concurrent vote of the two Houses, an adjournment took place this day--to meet in the city of Philadelphia on the first Monday in December next.

Previous to the adjournment, a unanimous vote passed both Houses, returning thanks to the Corporation of this City for the elegant and convenient accommodations furnished the Congress of the United States.

Adjourned, sine die.

FIRST CONGRESS.--THIRD SESSION.

HELD AT THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, DECEMBER 6, 1790

PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.

MONDAY, December 6, 1790.

The Senate assembled: present,

JOHN ADAMS, Vice President of the United States, and President of the Senate.

From New Hampshire, JOHN LANGDON and PAINE WINGATE.

From Massachusetts, TRISTRAM DALTON.

From Connecticut, OLIVER ELLSWORTH.

From New York, RUFUS KING.

From Pennsylvania, WILLIAM MACLAY and ROBERT MORRIS.

From Delaware, RICHARD BASSETT.

From North Carolina, SAMUEL JOHNSTON and BENJAMIN HAWKINS.

From South Carolina, PIERCE BUTLER and RALPH IZARD.

From Georgia, WILLIAM FEW.

PHILEMON DICKINSON, from the State of New Jersey, produced his credentials and took his seat in the Senate, in the place of Governor PATERSON.

JAMES MONROE, appointed by the Legislature of the State of Virginia, in the place of JOHN WALKER, who was appointed by the Executive of the said State in the room of WILLIAM GRAYSON, deceased, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the Senate.

The VICE PRESIDENT administered the oath required by law to Mr. DICKINSON and Mr. MONROE, respectively.

A letter was read from WILLIAM PATERSON, Governor of the State of New Jersey, communicating the resignation of his appointment to be a Senator of the United States.

Ordered, That the Secretary inform the House of Representatives that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and ready to proceed to business.

TUESDAY, December 7.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that a quorum of that body is assembled and ready to proceed to business.

Messrs. LANGDON and MORRIS were appointed a committee, on the part of the Senate, to inform the President of the United States that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and will be ready, in the Senate Chamber, at such time as he may appoint, to receive any communication which he may be pleased to make.

Mr. LANGDON, in the course of the day, reported that the President would meet the two Houses, as proposed, to-morrow, at 12 o'clock.

WEDNESDAY, December 8.

JONATHAN ELMER, from New Jersey; CALEB STRONG, from Massachusetts; and GEORGE READ, from the State of Delaware; attended.

A letter from the Commissioners of the city and county of Philadelphia was received, offering to Congress the county court-house for their accommodation during their residence in Philadelphia.

The members of the House of Representatives having taken their seats, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES entered the Senate Chamber, and addressed both Houses as follows:

_Fellow-Citizens of the Senate and House of Representatives:_

In meeting you again, I feel much satisfaction in being able to repeat my congratulations on the favorable prospects which continue to distinguish our public affairs. The abundant fruits of another year have blessed our country with plenty, and with the means of a flourishing commerce. The progress of public credit is witnessed by a considerable rise of American stock abroad as well as at home; and the revenues allotted for this and other national purposes have been productive beyond the calculations by which they were regulated. This latter circumstance is the more pleasing, as it is not only a proof of the fertility of our resources, but as it assures us of a further increase of the national respectability and credit; and, let me add, as it bears an honorable testimony to the patriotism and integrity of the mercantile and marine part of our citizens. The punctuality of the former in discharging their engagements has been exemplary.

In conforming to the powers vested in me by acts of the last session, a loan of three millions of florins, towards which some provisional measures had previously taken place, has been completed in Holland. As well the celerity with which it has been filled, as the nature of the terms, (considering the more than ordinary demand for borrowing, created by the situation of Europe,) give a reasonable hope that the further execution of those powers may proceed with advantage and success. The Secretary of the Treasury has my directions to communicate such further particulars as may be requisite for more precise information.

Since your last sessions I have received communications by which it appears that the district of Kentucky, at present a part of Virginia, has concurred in certain propositions contained in a law of that State; in consequence of which the district is to become a distinct member of the Union, in case the requisite sanction of Congress be added. For this sanction application is now made. I shall cause the papers on this very important transaction to be laid before you. The liberality and harmony with which it has been conducted will be found to do great honor to both the parties; and, the sentiments of warm attachment to the Union and its present Government, expressed by our fellow-citizens of Kentucky, cannot fail to add an affectionate concern for their particular welfare to the great national impressions under which you will decide on the case submitted to you.

It has been heretofore known to Congress, that frequent incursions have been made on our frontier settlements by certain banditti of Indians from the north-west side of the Ohio. These, with some of the tribes dwelling on and near the Wabash, have of late been particularly active in their depredations; and, being emboldened by the impunity of their crimes, and aided by such parts of the neighboring tribes as could be seduced to join in their hostilities, or afford them a retreat for their prisoners and plunder, they have, instead of listening to the humane invitations and overtures made on the part of the United States, renewed their violences with fresh alacrity, and greater effect. The lives of a number of valuable citizens have thus been sacrificed, and some of them under circumstances peculiarly shocking, whilst others have been carried into a deplorable captivity.

These aggravated provocations rendered it essential to the safety of the Western settlements, that the aggressors should be made sensible that the Government of the Union is not less capable of punishing their crimes, than it is disposed to respect their rights and reward their attachments. As this object could not be effected by defensive measures, it became necessary to put in force the act which empowers the President to call out the militia for the protection of the frontiers; and I have, accordingly, authorized an expedition, in which the regular troops in that quarter are combined with such drafts of militia as were deemed sufficient: the event of the measure is yet unknown to me. The Secretary of War is directed to lay before you a statement of the information on which it is founded, as well as an estimate of the expense with which it will be attended.

The disturbed situation of Europe, and particularly the critical posture of the great maritime Powers, whilst it ought to make us the more thankful for the general peace and security enjoyed by the United States, reminds us, at the same time, of the circumspection with which it becomes us to preserve these blessings. It requires, also, that we should not overlook the tendency of a war, and even of preparations for a war, among the nations most concerned in active commerce with this country, to abridge the means, and thereby at least to enhance the price of transporting its valuable productions to their proper markets. I recommend it to your serious reflection how far, and in what mode, it may be expedient to guard against embarrassments from these contingencies, by such encouragements to our own navigation as will render our commerce and agriculture less dependent on foreign bottoms, which may fail us in the very moments most interesting to both of these great objects. Our fisheries, and the transportation of our own produce, offer us abundant means for guarding ourselves against this evil.

Your attention seems to be not less due to that particular branch of our trade which belongs to the Mediterranean. So many circumstances unite in rendering the present state of it distressful to us, that you will not think any deliberations misemployed which may lead to its relief and protection.

The laws you have already passed for the establishment of a Judiciary system have opened the doors of justice to all description of persons. You will consider, in your wisdom, whether improvements in that system may yet be made; and, particularly, whether a uniform process of execution, on sentences issuing from the Federal courts, be not desirable through all the States.

The patronage of our commerce, of our merchants, and seamen, has called for the appointment of Consuls in foreign countries. It seems expedient, to regulate by law, the exercise of that jurisdiction, and those functions which are permitted them, either by express convention, or by a friendly indulgence, in the places of their residence. The Consular Convention, too, with His Most Christian Majesty, has stipulated, in certain cases, the aid of the national authority to his Consuls established here. Some legislative provision is requisite to carry these stipulations into full effect.

The establishment of the Militia, of a Mint, of Standards of Weights and Measures, of the Post Office and post roads, are subjects which (I presume) you will resume of course, and which are abundantly urged by their own importance.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

The sufficiency of the revenues you have established for the objects to which they are appropriated, leaves no doubt that the residuary provisions will be commensurate to the other objects for which the public faith stands now pledged. Allow me, moreover, to hope that it will be a favorite policy with you not merely to secure a payment of the debt funded, but as far and as fast as the growing resources of the country will permit, to exonerate it of the principle itself. The appropriation you have made of the Western lands explains your dispositions on this subject, and I am persuaded the sooner that valuable fund can be made to contribute, along with other means, to the actual reduction of the public debt, the more salutary will the measure be to every public interest, as well as the more satisfactory to our constituents.

Gentlemen of the Senate and House of Representatives:

In pursuing the various and weighty business of the present session, I indulge the fullest persuasion that your consultations will be equally marked with wisdom, and animated by the love of your country. In whatever belongs to my duty, you shall have all the co-operation which an undiminished zeal for its welfare can inspire. It will be happy for us both, and our best reward, if, by a successful administration of our respective trusts, we can make the established Government more and more instrumental in promoting the good of our fellow-citizens, and more and more the object of their attachment and confidence.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

UNITED STATES, December 8, 1790.

The President of the United States having retired, and the two Houses being separated, Messrs. ELLSWORTH, KING, and IZARD, were appointed a committee to prepare and report the draft of an Address to the PRESIDENT, in answer to his Speech to both Houses.

THURSDAY, December 9.

_To the President, and the Honorable the Congress of the United States of America._

The memorial of the Representatives of the people of Kentucky, in Convention assembled, pursuant to an act of the Legislature of Virginia, passed the 18th December, 1789, entitled "An act concerning the erection of the District of Kentucky into an independent State," humbly showeth:

That the inhabitants of this country are warmly devoted to the American Union, and as firmly attached to the present happy establishment of the Federal Government, as any of the citizens of the United States.

That, migrating from hence, they have, with great hazard and difficulty, effected their present settlements. The hope of increasing numbers could alone have supported the early adventurers under those arduous exertions. They have the satisfaction to find that hope verified. At this day, the population and strength of this country render it fully able, in the opinion of your memorialists, to form and support an efficient domestic Government.

The inconveniences resulting from its local situation, as a part of Virginia, at first but little felt, have for some time been objects of their most serious attention; which occasioned application to the Legislature of Virginia for redress.

Here your memorialists would acknowledge, with peculiar pleasure, the benevolence of Virginia in permitting them to remove the evils arising from that source, by assuming upon themselves a state of independence.

This they have thought expedient to do, on the terms and conditions stipulated in the above recited act; and fixed on the first day of June, 1792, as the period when the said independence shall commence.

It now remains with the President and the Congress of the United States to sanction these proceedings, by an act of their honorable Legislature, prior to the first day of November, 1791, for the purpose of receiving into the Federal Union the people of Kentucky, by the name of the State of Kentucky.

Should this determination of your memorialists meet the approbation of the General Government, they have to call a Convention, to form a Constitution, subsequent to the act of Congress, and prior to the day fixed for the independence of this country.

When your memorialists reflect upon the present comprehensive system of Federal Government, and when they also recollect the determination of a former Congress on this subject, they are left without a doubt that the object of their wishes will be accomplished.

And your memorialists, as in duty bound, shall for ever pray.

GEORGE MUTER, President. Attest, THOMAS TODD, Clerk of the Con.

A letter from the Secretary of War was communicated to the VICE PRESIDENT, enclosing sundry papers referred to in the President's Speech to both Houses of Congress, on the 8th instant, which, being read, were ordered to lie for consideration.

FRIDAY, December 10.

A letter from Monsieur Beniere, President of the Commonalty of Paris, addressed to the PRESIDENT and members of Congress of the United States, with twenty-six copies of a Civic Eulogy on BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, pronounced the 21st day of July, 1790, in the name of the Commonalty of Paris, by Monsieur L'Abbé Fauchet, was delivered to the Senate, by Mr. Lear, Secretary to the President of the United States.

Read, and

Ordered, That the letter and copies of the Eulogy be sent to the House of Representatives.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate, that they have, on their part, appointed the Rev. Dr. BLAIR one of the Chaplains of the present Congress.

Mr. ELLSWORTH, from the committee appointed to prepare and report the draft of an Address to the President of the United States, reported accordingly; and, the report being amended, was adopted, as followeth:

To the President of the United States of America.

We receive, sir, with particular satisfaction, the communications contained in your speech, which confirm to us the progressive state of the public credit, and afford, at the same time, a new proof of the solidity of the foundation on which it rests; and we cheerfully join in the acknowledgment which is due to the probity and patriotism of the mercantile and marine part of our fellow-citizens, whose enlightened attachment to the principles of good government is not less conspicuous in this than it has been in other important respects.

In confidence that every constitutional preliminary has been observed, we assure you of our disposition to concur, in giving the requisite sanction to the admission of Kentucky as a distinct member of the Union; in doing which, we shall anticipate the happy effects to be expected from the sentiments of attachment towards the Union, and its present Government, which have been expressed by the patriotic inhabitants of that district.

While we regret that the continuance and increase of the hostilities and depredations which have distressed our north-western frontiers, should have rendered offensive measures necessary, we feel an entire confidence in the sufficiency of the motives which have produced them, and in the wisdom of the dispositions which have been concerted, in pursuance of the powers vested in you; and, whatever may have been the event, we shall cheerfully concur in the provisions which the expedition, that has been undertaken, may require on the part of the Legislature, and in any other which the future peace and safety of our frontier settlements may call for.

The critical posture of the European Powers will engage a due portion of our attention, and we shall be ready to adopt any measures which a prudent circumspection may suggest, for the preservation of the blessings of peace. The navigation and the fisheries of the United States are objects too interesting not to inspire a disposition to promote them, by all the means which shall appear to us consistent with their natural progress and permanent prosperity.

Impressed with the importance of a free intercourse with the Mediterranean, we shall not think any deliberations misemployed which may conduce to the adoption of proper measures for removing the impediments that obstruct it.

The improvement of the Judiciary system, and the other important objects to which you have pointed our attention, will not fail to engage the consideration they respectively merit.

In the course of our deliberations upon every subject we shall rely upon that co-operation which an undiminished zeal, and incessant anxiety for the public welfare, on your part, so thoroughly ensure; and, as it is our anxious desire, so it shall be our constant endeavor, to render the established Government more and more instrumental in promoting the good of our fellow-citizens, and more and more the object of their attachment and confidence.

Ordered, That the Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech, be presented by the Vice President, attended by the Senate, and that the committee which reported the Address wait on the President, and desire to be informed at what time and place he will receive the same.

MONDAY, December 13.

WILLIAM S. JOHNSON, from Connecticut, and PHILIP SCHUYLER, from New York, attended.

Mr. ELLSWORTH, from the committee appointed on the 10th, to wait on the President of the United States, reported:

That it would be agreeable to the President to receive the Address of the Senate, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, on Monday next, at 12 o'clock.

Whereupon,

The Senate waited upon the President of the United States at his own house, and the Vice President, in their name, communicated to him the Address agreed to on the 10th instant; to which the President of the United States was pleased to make the following reply:

GENTLEMEN: These assurances of favorable attention to the subjects I have recommended, and of entire confidence in my views, make the impression on me which I ought to feel. I thank you for them both, and shall continue to rely much for the success of all our measures for the public good, on the aid they will receive from the wisdom and integrity of your councils.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

The Senate returned to the Senate Chamber.

WEDNESDAY, December 15.

JOSEPH STANTON, junior, from Rhode Island, attended.

MONDAY, January 10.

JOHN HENRY, from Maryland, attended.

MONDAY, January 17.

JAMES GUNN, from Georgia, attended.

FRIDAY, January 21.

CHARLES CARROLL, from the State of Maryland, attended.

MONDAY, February 14.

The Senate on Executive business. The following Message from the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES was under consideration:

Gentlemen of the Senate:

Conceiving that in the possible event of a refusal of justice on the part of Great Britain, we should stand less committed should it be made to a private rather than a public person, I employed Mr. Gouverneur Morris, who was on the spot, and without giving him any definite character, to enter informally into the conferences before mentioned. For your more particular information, I lay before you the instructions I gave him, and those parts of his communications wherein the British ministers appear either in conversation or by letter. These are two letters from the Duke of Leeds to Mr. Morris, and three letters of Mr. Morris, giving an account of two conferences with the Duke of Leeds, and one with him, and Mr. Pitt. The sum of these is, that they declare, without scruple, they do not mean to fulfil what remains of the Treaty of Peace to be fulfilled on their part, (by which we are to understand the delivery of the posts and payment for property carried off,) till performance on our part, and compensation where the delay has rendered the performance now impracticable; that on the subject of a treaty of commerce they avoided direct answers, so as to satisfy Mr. Morris they did not mean to enter into one unless it could be extended to a treaty of alliance offensive and defensive, or unless in the event of a rupture with Spain.

As to the sending a Minister here, they made excuses at the first conference, seemed disposed to it in the second, and in the last express an intention of so doing.

Their views being thus sufficiently ascertained, I have directed Mr. Morris to discontinue his communications with them. GEO. WASHINGTON.

UNITED STATES, Feb. 14, 1791.

Ordered, That this Message lie for consideration.

TUESDAY, February 15.

RICHARD HENRY LEE, from Virginia, attended.

No business of importance before the Senate to-day.

THURSDAY EVENING, March 3.

A message from the House of Representatives informed the Senate that they, having completed the Legislative business before them, intend shortly to adjourn without day.

Ordered, That the Secretary acquaint the House of Representatives that the Senate, having completed the Legislative business before them, are about to adjourn; and having acquainted the VICE PRESIDENT that he had delivered the message,

The Senate adjourned without day.

FIRST CONGRESS.--THIRD SESSION.

PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

IN

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

MONDAY, December 6, 1790.

On which day, being the day appointed by adjournment of the two Houses for the meeting of the present session, the following members appeared and took their seats, to wit:

From New Hampshire--ABIEL FOSTER, NICHOLAS GILMAN, and SAMUEL LIVERMORE.

From Massachusetts--FISHER AMES, BENJAMIN GOODHUE, and GEORGE THATCHER.

From Connecticut--BENJAMIN HUNTINGTON, ROGER SHERMAN, and JONATHAN STURGES.

From New York--EGBERT BENSON, WILLIAM FLOYD, JOHN LAWRENCE, and PETER SYLVESTER.

From New Jersey--ELIAS BOUDINOT, LAMBERT CADWALADER, and JAMES SCHUREMAN.

From Pennsylvania--GEORGE CLYMER, THO'S FITZSIMONS, FREDERICK AUGUSTUS MUHLENBERG, PETER MUHLENBERG, and HENRY WYNKOOP.

From Maryland--JOSHUA SENEY.

From Virginia--JOHN BROWN, SAMUEL GRIFFIN, and JAMES MADISON, Junior.

From North Carolina--TIMOTHY BLOODWORTH and HUGH WILLIAMSON.

From South Carolina--WILLIAM SMITH.

From Georgia--ABRAHAM BALDWIN.

Which not forming a quorum of the whole number, the House adjourned until to-morrow.

TUESDAY, December 7.

DANIEL HEISTER and THOMAS SCOTT, from Pennsylvania; RICHARD BLAND LEE, from Virginia; and DANIEL HUGER, from South Carolina, appeared and took their seats.

WILLIAM B. GILES, from Virginia, returned in the place of Theodorick Bland, deceased, also appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat.

WEDNESDAY, December 8.

ELBRIDGE GERRY and JONATHAN GROUT, from Massachusetts; ANDREW MOORE and ALEXANDER WHITE, from Virginia; and THOMAS TUDOR TUCKER, from South Carolina, appeared and took their seats.

A message from the Senate informed the House that they are ready to meet the members of this House in the Senate Chamber, to receive the usual communication from the President of the United States.

Mr. SPEAKER, attended by the members of this House, then withdrew to the Senate Chamber, for the purpose expressed in the above message.

And being returned, the SPEAKER laid before the House a copy of the Speech, delivered by the PRESIDENT (which will be found in the proceedings of the Senate),

Which being read, it was, on motion, committed to the consideration of a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

THURSDAY, December 9.

JAMES JACKSON and GEORGE MATHEWS, from Georgia, appeared and took their seats.

Address to the President.

On motion, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Speech of the President of the United States, Mr. LIVERMORE in the chair.

On motion of Mr. LAWRENCE, the committee agreed to a resolution, which the committee rose and reported to the House, which was concurred with as follows:

Resolved, that it is the opinion of this committee, that an Address ought to be presented by the House to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses, with assurances that this House will, without delay, proceed to take into consideration the various and important matters recommended to their attention.

And Messrs. MADISON, AMES, and TUCKER, were appointed to prepare the Address.

FRIDAY, December 10.

GEORGE PARTRIDGE, from Massachusetts; JONATHAN TRUMBULL and JEREMIAH WADSWORTH, from Connecticut; THOMAS SINNICKSON, from New Jersey; and WILLIAM SMITH, from Maryland, appeared and took their seats.

SATURDAY, December 11.

A translation of the Letter from the President of the Commonalty of Paris, addressed to the Federal Legislature, was read as follows:

Mr. President--Gentlemen:

The news has reached our ears--FRANKLIN is no more!--FRANKLIN, the citizen of the world!--All nations are indebted to him for instruction in every branch of science. They are all bound to participate in the grief occasioned by this common loss. But the Assembly of the Representatives of the Commonalty of our capital, thinking it their duty, in addition to the general mourning, to pay to his memory a further tribute of honor, have ordered, by a public decree, that the virtues and talents of this great philosopher should be perpetuated to distant ages, in a public and solemn Eulogy--the first of the kind ever bestowed by our nation on civic worth.

By order of the Assembly I transmit it to your hands; and, with the most lively sensations of pleasure, embrace the opportunity of paying due homage to a body of men, who not only possess, but are justly entitled to enjoy the sweets of Liberty.

May the approbation of your Assembly attend, as well the present itself, as the fraternal and respectful sentiments with which

I am, Mr. President--Gentlemen, Your most obedient humble servant, BENIERE,

_Doctor of the Sorbonne, Suppletory Member of the National Assembly, and President of the Commonalty of Paris._

To the PRESIDENT and CONGRESS of the United States.

The letter accompanied twenty-six copies of the Eulogium on Dr. FRANKLIN, delivered by the Abbé Fauchet, pursuant to a decree of that body.

Mr. BOUDINOT proposed that thirteen copies of the Eulogium be returned to the President of the United States and the Senate; which was done.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed, that it would be proper to request the President of the United States to return an answer to the President of the Commonalty of Paris, or that a Joint Committee of the House and Senate should be appointed for the purpose. He was not tenacious of any particular mode, but supposed it highly proper that some notice should be taken of the polite attention shown the Government by the President of the Commonalty of Paris. The business was specially committed to the SPEAKER.

Agreeably to the order of the day, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, to take into consideration the Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses, as reported yesterday. Mr. LIVERMORE in the chair.

The Address was read by the clerk, and then discussed by the committee in paragraphs.

On reading the clause respecting the Western expedition against the Indians,

Mr. JACKSON rose and observed, that he was as fully impressed with the importance of an Indian war, and of extending the protection of Government to our defenceless frontiers, as any man whatever, and had no doubt of the necessity of the measures taken to chastise the banditti on the Ohio; but as a Representative from the State of Georgia, he should think himself inexcusable were he not to express his astonishment that no notice is taken in the President's speech of the treaty with the Creek Nation; a treaty which has spread alarm among the people of that State--a treaty by which more than three millions of acres of land, the property of the State of Georgia, guarantied to that State by the Constitution of the United States, are ceded away without any compensation. Mr. J. then adverted to several articles of the treaty, which he said controverted the plainest principles of the constitution, particularly those parts which secure to every citizen the rights of property. He contrasted the present situation of the inhabitants of Georgia, with what it was under the British Government, and said this treaty placed them in a less eligible situation in respect to the Indians.

It had been said, exclaimed he, that there are secret articles in the treaty. Good God! at this early period are there to be secret articles existing between the United States and any other nation under heaven! Treaties by the constitution are to be considered the supreme law of the land; but will Congress permit the laws of the United States, like those of Caligula, to be placed where they cannot be read, and then punish the people for not obeying them? The people will never submit to be bound by secret articles.

[Here the Chairman interrupted Mr. JACKSON, by inquiring whether his observations were intended as introductory to any motion on the paragraph just read.]

Mr. J. replied, that it was his intention, at a future day, to introduce a motion, that the President be requested to lay before this House the treaty with the Creek Indians--not excepting the secret articles. He then expatiated on the sufferings of the people of Georgia, and asked, what must be their feelings when they reflect on the preparations made to chastise the Wabash banditti, while the exertions of Congress have not been called forth to their relief. The President sent three Commissioners to Georgia (not one of whom was a citizen of that State). They investigated the truth of her representations, and made a report favorable to her claims, that the lands in dispute were fairly purchased, and as fully obtained as the Confederation, or the nature of the case would admit; but what has been the result? The treaty, so far from recognizing the rights of Georgia, has sacrificed them--the report of the Commissioners does not appear to have been attended to. On the other hand, a savage of the Creeks has been invited and brought to the seat of Government, and there loaded with favors, and caressed in the most extraordinary manner.

He said, he would not at present engross any more of the time of the House, only to give notice that, at a future opportunity, he should move that the President of the United States be requested to lay before the House for their consideration, the treaty with the Creek Indians--not excepting the secret articles.

The paragraph respecting encouraging our own navigation being read,

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed, that he did not rise to propose any alterations in the style of the Address; the language was such as might be expected from the acknowledged abilities of the gentleman who drafted it. The paragraph just read, he conceived, pledged the House to take measures in respect to our own navigation, which may, in the issue, prove injurious to the agricultural interests of the United States. At this early period of the session, it appeared extremely improper for the House to commit itself, especially as few, if any of the States, are fully represented on the floor. He was afraid that the mode of expression adopted in the Address would conduce to the exclusion of foreign bottoms altogether. If the opinion of the committee should be adopted by the House, he conceived it would be anticipating a decision to the precluding future discussions of the subject. He foresaw that this paragraph would be called up at some future period, and brought as an argument against any different propositions that might be offered--and thus the question be determined without any debate. He thought the Address went into too minute a consideration of the several parts of the Speech, and could have wished that more general terms had been used. As a substitute for the paragraph under consideration, he moved the following amendment in substance:

"We shall consider with attention the best means of guarding against the embarrassments you mention, and will take such measures as may remove every obstruction to the prosperity of the commerce and agriculture of the United States."

Mr. WILLIAMSON observed, that he saw no material difference between the paragraph in the report and the amendment proposed. The mode of expression adopted by the committee is in so general terms, that he hoped it would have met the full approbation of every member of the committee. The President proposes that the commerce of the United States should be relieved from all injurious restrictions; nothing can be more just and reasonable: and this is perfectly compatible with supporting the agricultural interests of the country; the promotion of the former involves that of the latter. He touched on the impositions of Great Britain on our commerce, and observed, that reason and justice point out the propriety of seeking redress. He, however, saw no opposition in the two propositions; but as the obvious design in bringing forward the substitute is to preclude such an inquiry as the exigency of the case seems to require, he hoped it would not be adopted.

Mr. JACKSON observed that he had seconded the motion of the gentleman from South Carolina, because he thought there was an obvious difference in the two modes of expression. He then entered into a discussion of the subject generally; and enlarged on the injurious consequences which would result to the Southern States particularly by enhancing the duties on foreign bottoms. He said, that the tonnage was at present so high as to prevent foreigners from becoming our carriers; several instances of this had been mentioned to him from good authority; and while the American shipping was incompetent to the object, and he called on gentlemen to show that it was, the exclusion of foreign ships from our ports must be ruinous to South Carolina and Georgia; therefore, he hoped the amendment would take place.

Mr. SHERMAN said, that the words in the report appeared to him less exceptionable than those in the proposed amendment, even on the principle supported by the gentleman in favor of the amendment. In the report it was only said, we should consider what means, &c., but the amendment declared we should take effectual measures. The words in the report only binding us to consider--those in the amendment obliging us to act. He thought the answer should be general, and was therefore against the amendment.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed, that the member last up had confined his observation to the first words in the paragraph objected to. If he will take the trouble of reading a little further, he will see, that as the report stands, we give it as our opinion, that foreign bottoms ought to be excluded, which would be severely felt by the States of South Carolina and Georgia. We cannot wholly depend upon our own vessels for the exportation of our produce; they are not sufficiently numerous, nor will they be for many years; therefore, let us not at this time, in a hasty manner, declare, that all articles exported shall be carried in our own bottoms. To settle this important question, Mr. S. thought that some time should be given to reflect, and a day fixed for discussion; in the mean time, he thought it improper at this stage of the session, that the opinion of the House should be given.

Mr. WILLIAMSON remarked, that the report did not say that we should have no dependence on foreign bottoms; but that we should not depend altogether upon them for the exportation of our produce. He had no idea of excluding foreign bottoms. He was for making provision in case that resource should fail.

Mr. JACKSON.--To show the importance of foreign shipping to the Southern States, and the inadequacy of our own to transport their produce, notwithstanding the low duty on American shipping, Mr. J. read a statement of the tonnage duties paid by each, in the State of Georgia, for the same period; the foreign tonnage amounted to eight thousand two hundred and twenty-seven dollars, the American to six hundred and twenty-nine dollars only. This being the fact, he inquired, what could be done with the Southern produce, in case of the exclusion of foreign bottoms? It must rot in the planter's hands. With respect to the amendment's being as positive as the clause in the report, as had been asserted, if this is the case he could see no objection to its being adopted.

Mr. TUCKER said, he thought it improper that in an Address on this occasion, the committee should go into a particular detail on every subject; much less commit their judgment without a previous discussion. The President may have maturely considered the subject during the recess, but the committee cannot be supposed to be prepared for a decision. The thinness of the House was a further objection, in his opinion, to entering into a discussion of the question. He was not pleased with the paragraph in the report, as it seemed to imply that nothing had been done for the encouragement of our own navigation, the reverse of which was fact. The posture of affairs in Europe suggested no stronger reasons for giving further encouragement to our own navigation than what was presented last session; the expediency of the measure is not therefore apparent from any change of circumstances. Though he was dissatisfied with the report, the amendment proposed fell short of his wishes. It did not recognize what had been done for the encouragement of American shipping. He would, therefore, propose a substitute by leave of his colleague; which he did to the following purport: "The encouragement of our own navigation has at all times appeared to us highly important, and has employed a large share of our deliberations; we shall continue to pay due attention to the subject, and consider by what means our commerce and agriculture may be best promoted."

Mr. SMITH withdrew his motion to admit Mr. TUCKER's.

Mr. SENEY said, he could not conceive what ground of apprehension there was in the Address, to lead gentlemen to suppose that the opinion of the House would be committed by its adoption. He thought it couched in the most general and unexceptionable terms. The amendment proposed he did not think essentially variant from the paragraph under consideration; but as the original was well expressed, he saw no reason for expunging the clause; it contained an assertion, the truth of which he supposed would not be controverted. As to the objection against going into a detail of particulars, it was fully justified by precedent in the last Address; the gentleman from South Carolina, he will recollect, was on the committee who framed it; that Address more pointedly committed the House than the present.

Mr. MADISON thought proper to take some notice of the objections that had been made to the report. There were two modes of proceeding, which might be adopted in drawing up the answer. The first method was generally to declare, that the House would take into their serious consideration the business recommended to their attention by the President. And this, he observed, would be saying nothing, for, as by the constitution it was the President's duty to communicate what matters he judged of importance, so it was undoubtedly that of the House to pay attention to the objects recommended. The second method was, to enter into a detail of the different points mentioned in the President's Address, and in such cases where there was no doubt as to the propriety of measures being taken, assure him, in the answer, that measures would be adopted; and if any thing doubtful occurred, merely promise that the subject would be attended to. This rule the committee had followed in drawing up their report, and as in the business mentioned in the paragraph now before the House, they did not hesitate to believe some measures necessary, they could see no impropriety in assuring him that the best would be adopted. He added, that as it is clear that a war in Europe would, by depriving us of foreign bottoms to export our produce, injure this country; and as wars were doubtful, it was of the utmost importance that the American navy be put on so respectable a footing as not to need foreign aid for the exportation of her produce. He further observed, that the answer returned last session was more full, and went even to give the President assurances that the House would concur in certain points proposed for their consideration in his address. He concluded by remarking, that the amendment proposed was binding on the House quite as much as the paragraph in the report.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said, it was true those who reported the Address the last session, adverted to particulars; but were cautious in their mode of expression, and adopted ambiguous language to avoid giving an opinion. This would appear by recurring to that Address. The charge of inconsistency on his part was therefore not well founded. Mr. S. read some paragraphs of that Address, and observed that the House was not pledged by the expressions then read; but in the present Address there is an opinion given. It says that we ought not to depend on foreign bottoms, because in case of war we may be deprived of that resource. These declarations originated the objections, and gave rise to the amendment. He proposed, therefore, as gentlemen appear to have no objection to either mode of expression, that they would accommodate for the sake of harmony and unanimity.

The question on the amendment was lost by a considerable majority.

The remainder of the Address was read, and agreed to by the committee. The committee then rose and reported, and the House adopted it unanimously.

A committee was then appointed to wait on the President of the United States, to know at what time and place it would be convenient for him to receive the Address.

The committee having waited on the President, Mr. MADISON reported, that the President was pleased to return for answer, that, at two o'clock on Monday next, he would receive the Address at his own house.

Messrs. WILLIAMSON and SHERMAN were added to the committee on the bill to amend the act for promoting the progress of the useful arts.

Mr. MATHEWS was appointed on the committee on the militia bill, vice Mr. JACKSON, who begged leave to decline serving, as his colleague had been heretofore on that business, and must consequently be better acquainted with the subject than he was.

MONDAY, December 13.

GEORGE LEONARD from Massachusetts; JOHN VINING, from Delaware; JOSIAH PARKER, from Virginia; JOHN BAPTIST ASHE, from North Carolina; and EDANUS BURKE, from South Carolina, appeared and took their seats.

Eulogium on Dr. Franklin.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) introduced the following motion, which was read, and laid on the table:

The House being highly sensible of the polite attention of the Commonalty of Paris, in directing a eulogium to the illustrious memory of Dr. Benjamin Franklin, pronounced before them, to be transmitted to the President and Congress of the United States,

Resolved, That the Speaker communicate the sense of this House in a letter addressed to the President and Commonalty of Paris.

Address to the President.

At two o'clock, the House, preceded by the Sergeant-at-Arms, waited on the President of the United States, at his house where the SPEAKER delivered the following Address in answer to his Speech to both Houses:

SIR: The Representatives of the people of the United States have taken into consideration your Address to the two Houses at the opening of the present session of Congress.

We share in the satisfaction inspired by the prospects which continue to be so auspicious to our public affairs. The blessings resulting from the smiles of Heaven on our agriculture, the rise of public credit, with the further advantages promised to it, and the fertility of resources which are found so little burdensome to the community, fully authorize our mutual congratulations on the present occasion. Nor can we learn, without an additional gratification, that the energy of the laws for providing adequate revenues have been so honorably seconded by those classes of citizens whose patriotism and probity were more immediately concerned.

The success of the loan, opened in Holland under the disadvantages of the present moment, is the more important, as it not only denotes the confidence already placed in the United States, but as the effects of a judicious application of that aid will still further illustrate the solidity of the foundation on which the public credit rests.

The preparatory steps taken by the State of Virginia, in concert with the District of Kentucky, towards the erection of the latter into a distinct member of the Union, exhibit a liberality mutually honorable to the parties. We shall bestow on this important subject the favorable consideration which it merits, and with the national policy which ought to govern our decision, shall not fail to mingle the affectionate sentiments which are awakened by those expressed in behalf of our fellow-citizens of Kentucky.

Whilst we regret the necessity which has produced offensive hostilities against some of the Indian tribes north-west of the Ohio, we sympathize too much with our Western brethren, not to behold with approbation the watchfulness and vigor which have been exerted by the Executive authority for their protection; and which, we trust, will make the aggressors sensible that it is their interest to merit, by a peaceable behavior, the friendship and humanity which the United States are always ready to extend to them.

The encouragement of our own navigation has at all times appeared to us highly important. The point of view under which you have recommended it to us is strongly enforced by the actual state of things in Europe. It will be incumbent on us to consider in what mode our commerce and agriculture can be best relieved from an injurious dependence on the navigation of other nations, which the frequency of their wars renders a too precarious resource for conveying the productions of our own country to market.

The present state of our trade in the Mediterranean seems not less to demand, and will accordingly receive, the attention which you have recommended.

Having already concurred in establishing a Judiciary system, which opens the doors of justice to all without distinction of persons, it will be our disposition to incorporate every improvement which experience may suggest; and we shall consider, in particular, how far the uniformity which in other cases is found convenient in the administration of the General Government through all the States may be introduced into the forms and rules of executing sentences issuing from the Federal Courts.

The proper regulation of the jurisdiction and functions which may be exercised by Consuls of the United States in foreign countries, with the provisions stipulated to those of His Most Christian Majesty established here, are subjects of too much consequence to the public interest and honor not to partake of our deliberations.

We shall renew our attention to the establishment of the militia and other subjects unfinished at the last session, and shall proceed in them with all the despatch which the magnitude of all, and the difficulty of some of them, will allow.

Nothing has given us more satisfaction than to find that the revenues heretofore established have proved adequate to the purposes to which they were allotted. In extending the provision to the residuary objects, it will be equally our care to secure sufficiency and punctuality in the payments due from the Treasury of the United States. We shall also never lose sight of the policy of diminishing the public debt, as fast as the increase of the public resources will permit; and are particularly sensible of the many considerations which press a resort to the auxiliary resources furnished by the public lands.

In pursuing every branch of the weighty business of the present session, it will be our constant study to direct our deliberations to the public welfare. Whatever our success may be, we can at least answer for the fervent love of our country, which ought to animate our endeavors. In your co-operation, we are sure of a resource which fortifies our hopes that the fruits of the established Government will justify the confidence which has been placed in it, and recommend it more and more to the affection and attachment of our fellow-citizens.

To the foregoing Address the PRESIDENT was pleased to reply:

GENTLEMEN: The sentiments expressed in your Address are entitled to my particular acknowledgment. Having no object but the good of our country, this testimony of approbation and confidence, from its immediate representatives, must be among my best rewards, as the support of your enlightened patriotism has been among my greatest encouragements. Being persuaded that you will continue to be actuated by the same auspicious principle, I look forward to the happiest consequences from your deliberations during the present session.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

TUESDAY, December 14.

JEREMIAH VAN RENSSELAER, from New York, and THOMAS HARTLEY, from Pennsylvania, appeared and took their seats.

FRIDAY, December 17.

JOHN HATHORN, from New York, and JOHN SEVIER, from North Carolina, appeared and took their seats.

BENJAMIN BOURNE, a member returned from Rhode Island, produced his credentials, and took his seat.

MONDAY, December 27.

Public Lands.

The House then went into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. LIVERMORE in the chair.

The report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the establishment of land offices for the disposal of the vacant lands belonging to the United States was taken up; when

Mr. BOUDINOT offered the following resolution:

Resolved, That it is the sense of the committee that a Land Office be established at the seat of the General Government, under the direction of ---- Commissioners.

Mr. SCOTT wished the House to take a general view of the business before they went into the particulars of the Secretary's report. Upon the whole, he was pleased with the plan drawn up by that officer; one part, however, he objected to--that part of the report which provided for the distribution of the land. He did not approve of setting apart tracts for particular descriptions of purchasers. As an amendment, he offered seven propositions, which he wished, for the present, to lie on the table, and which he proposed to offer as substitutes to different parts of the Secretary's report, as they came before the House. His principal object was to let the tracts which Congress proposed to sell be indiscriminately located.

Mr. BOUDINOT thought the committee could not then enter into the minutiæ of the business. It was enough to fix the general principles, viz: Whether there shall be a General Land Officer and two subordinates? Whether they shall be under the direction of Commissioners? And whether certain tracts of land should be reserved by Congress for certain purposes? And then to appoint a committee to bring in a bill on those principles, and to take into consideration the minutiæ of the business.

Mr. SCOTT moved as a substitute his second proposition, that such districts as shall be set apart for sale, shall include the actual settlements, and be left to be indiscriminately located. He said it was improper to set aside different tracts for different modes of location--some in large tracts, others in small lots. He conceived it would be the interest of Government to let every one purchase where he pleased, and as much or as little as he chose. From experience, he knew that those parts were always settled with the most celerity that were not bound down to any of those restrictions. For his part, he could see no good argument in favor of them.

He wished some of the gentlemen who approved of this mode would give him some reasons for preferring it. There could be no fear of individual settlers scattering and losing themselves in the backwoods; there was a sufficient check to prevent it--the Indians would keep them compact much more effectually than any regulations Congress could make. If, after granting certain scattered tracts to individual settlers, a considerable tract, including these, was wanted, he could see no inconvenience in granting it, reserving to the former settlers their rights.

Mr. WILLIAMSON rose to give the gentleman last up one reason for opposing indiscriminate location. Hitherto, he owned, much mischief had not arisen from this mode of settlement; but now there were persons rich in securities and cash, ready to take up considerable quantities of land, which, if they were permitted to select here and there, would select every choice tract they could; and those who might not have the same means of purchasing immediately at command, could only obtain the indifferent parcels. Many, he knew, had it in contemplation to do this, if the opportunity offered. He instanced North Carolina as an example of the injurious tendency of this liberty; where many tracts are unsaleable owing to this circumstance. If these tracts were to be purchased by actual settlers, the case would be different; they would only be taken up by persons under the name of actual settlers. Such a practice would be an impediment to such companies of Europeans as might wish to settle among us.

Mr. SCOTT said he expected the gentleman would have offered more solid objections to his plan, and more forcible arguments in favor of the other. Though the first settlers had the choice of the land, yet he conceived the remaining part would acquire a considerable additional value from the surrounding settlements. As for the European companies who might be tempted to settle among us, he did not contemplate it as an object so desirable. A body of French people settling in that way would preserve their language and manners two thousand years perhaps. This would not be for the true interest of the country; all its inhabitants should, by mutual intercourse, become assimilated, and no name be known but that of Americans.

Mr. BOUDINOT was against indiscriminate location. He had seen the bad effects of it in the State from which he came. Persons had bought up the low lands, and sold them again to such as absolutely needed a water lot to their farms, at enormous prices. He mentioned another objection to the plan--the tendency it had to create lawsuits. He said more money had been spent at law, in disputes arising from that mode of settlement, in New Jersey, than would have been necessary to purchase all the land of the State. The late Congress, he was informed, had adopted a method to obviate the inconveniences of the former mode--the lands were laid out into a mile square; these were divided into four equal squares, and in that form sold.

Mr. SCOTT said there were tracts of land which it is impossible to sell, even by offering good parcels with them. Between Philadelphia and his home there were spots which were only intended by nature for the birds and beasts--that could be of no value for cultivation. He could not see much probability that the best land would be picked out. The difficulty of exploring a wild and uncultivated desert opposed a considerable barrier to such attempts.

Mr. SCOTT's amendment was lost.

TUESDAY, December 28.

Land Offices.

The House then went again into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair. The report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the subject of a Land Office being under consideration.

Mr. SCOTT said, he was ready to give some information relative to the extent of the seven ranges. He produced a map of them, from which it appeared that they included thirty-five lots, each six miles square. The tract is in the shape of a triangle, of which one leg measured about sixty, and the other forty-two--in all, about twelve hundred square miles. His amendment was agreed to.

The next article was agreed to, with a trifling amendment, without debate.

Then the following was read:

"That the price shall be thirty cents per acre, to be paid either in gold or silver, or public securities, computing those which shall bear an immediate interest of six per cent. as at par with gold and silver, and those which shall bear a future or less interest, if any there be, at a proportional value."

Mr. SCOTT moved that thirty cents should be struck out.

Mr. SHERMAN was in favor of inserting fifty cents per acre. He said there was every reasonable probability the lands would be worth that sum in a few years.

Mr. LAWRENCE said, that as the quality of the land would vary, it appeared proper to fix on two prices at which they should be sold, viz: That the price shall not be more than ----, nor less than ----. He submitted the idea to the consideration of the committee.

Mr. SEDGWICK preferred the insertion of a sum below which the lands should not be sold.

Mr. WILLIAMSON suggested the propriety of making a difference in the price to those who purchase large quantities, from the price to those who purchase small quantities.

The motion for striking out was lost.

Mr. SEDGWICK then moved to amend the clause, by inserting "that the price per acre shall not be less than thirty cents."

Mr. STONE objected to the motion. He said the operation of it would be to leave it discretionary with the Surveyors to fix the price of the various tracts. This would be to constitute a tribunal in a measure independent of the Government. He thought the policy of the Government should be to fix on a price, which shall be so reasonable, that persons may feel every inducement to pay it before they take up the lands; for it has been found by experience, that when once a tract of distant country is taken possession of, you never can get any thing more than the settlers are willing to pay. He insisted that it was impracticable to fix the relative value of unlocated lands--it had been repeatedly tried without effect. He asked if any of the States had ever established various rates for their lands? He knew of none.

Mr. SEDGWICK answered the inquiry respecting the relative value of lands being ascertained in the several States. He said, that so far as his information extended, which respected only the States of New York, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, this had invariably been the case. Every man knows there is a most essential difference in the value of lands. Those on navigable rivers may be ten times as valuable as those on the top of a mountain. This every individual is so sensible of, that a difference in the price is constantly made; and why the Government should not make a difference, it is impossible to say. Any man, by casting his eye upon the map, can at once determine that some part of the land is unspeakably more valuable than other parts. He was certain that vesting a discretionary power, in the disposal of the lands, would be productive of the greatest advantage to the United States, and on this principle he could not conceive why the Surveyors should not determine the relative quality, that the United States may stand some chance of getting the value of this property.

Mr. LIVERMORE was in favor of Mr. SEDGWICK's motion, and enlarged on the unreasonableness of fixing a particular price.

Mr. JACKSON was opposed to investing a discretionary power to determine the price with any persons whatsoever. It had been productive of mischievous consequences in the State of Georgia. He was for fixing a price, and the highest price--the best the land would bear; when that is sold, if the revenue will not bear the price established, it can then be reduced.

Mr. SCOTT objected to the motion. He stated several difficulties; the principal was, that foreigners would be deterred from adventuring, owing to the uncertainty in the price; for when they arrive in the country to settle, they must purchase, and they will then lie at the mercy of speculators.

Mr. LAWRENCE.--The people have great dependence on the Western territory as a fund to extinguish their debt; it therefore becomes the duty of the Government to obtain the best price they can for it. The question is, whether we shall fix a price, or adopt the plan proposed by the gentleman from Massachusetts. He was in favor of the latter, and said he doubted not it would be easy to make a discrimination in the relative qualities of the lands. This difference in price may render it worth while for the Commissioners to have the land of a particular district explored. He replied to the objection from the want of integrity in the surveyors. Admitting the full force of the objection, it was probable that the United States would gain by it; at any rate, it would not lose; and it was probable that, to avoid suspicion, if the surveyors should be interested in the tract surveyed, they would give more than thirty cents. With respect to foreigners, after they arrive in this country, they then will be on the same footing with our own citizens. He adverted to the mode which had been adopted by New York--they had sold lands in every way, at a certain price, at auction, and are now selling them at the discretion of Commissioners, at a rate not below a certain sum.

Mr. STONE objected to the mode of leaving the price unfixed, as it would involve a complex system, subjecting the purchasers to great inconvenience, perplexity, and uncertainty. He reprobated the system adopted by New York, and asked the gentleman (Mr. LAWRENCE) whether New York had not been subjected to great loss and vexation in consequence of the plan they had pursued? He wished the system of New York should be fully understood, in order that the United States may avoid it. He concluded by saying, that he was in favor of fixing a price, and supposed that the Western Territory, sold at thirty cents per acre, would sink the whole of the national debt.

Mr. LAWRENCE replied to Mr. STONE. He said, that when the State of New York sold their lands at a fixed price, there had been complaints on account of the best tracts being taken up. When they had sold them at auction, the value of the lands had been generally realized in proportion to the quality. With respect to the last mode adopted, the result was not yet known.

Mr. WHITE said, if gentlemen had proposed the amendment to the clause which respects large purchases, he should not have objected to it. He, however, objected to it in the present case, and, in order to show that a fixed price was most eligible for small quantities, he instanced the practice of Lord Fairfax, who had been a great proprietor in Virginia; and also the practice of the first proprietors of Pennsylvania. These sold their lands, good and bad, at one price; their experience for such a length of time, near a century, he thought sufficient to show that mode to be the most eligible. He would not object to fixing that condition to special contract.

Mr. SEDGWICK obviated the objection in the first instance, by saying that the officers will be able to determine, with very considerable precision, what will be for the interest of the United States. He said experience had proved that there were no insuperable difficulties in the case.

Mr. MOORE observed, that the actual value of the best lands in that territory was about thirty cents per acre. When all of that description is sold, the next will bring the same price; from whence he inferred, that there could be no difficulty or loss attending fixing the price. He stated some difficulties which would result from adopting the mode proposed.

WEDNESDAY, January 5.

Duties on Spirits.

The House, agreeably to the order of the day, resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair, and took into consideration the bill repealing, after a certain time, the act laying duties on distilled spirits, &c., and imposing others in their stead.

Mr. JACKSON moved to strike out the essential part of the first clause. He stated his objections at large against the principles of the bill, and reprobated the funding system, and an excise in particular, as an auxiliary to it.

The tenor of his observations was to show that this mode of taxation was odious, unequal, unpopular, and oppressive, more particularly in the Southern States; in which he observed its unequal operation would be most sensibly felt, as the citizens of those States have no alternative to adopt by which they can diminish the weight of the tax; no breweries or orchards to furnish a substitute for spirituous liquors; hence they become a necessary article. He contended that they were not only necessary, but salutary in the Southern regions. This, he said, had been acknowledged by an Eastern author, Mr. Morse, an authority which he presumed would not be disputed by the Northern gentlemen, especially when it was considered he was a clergyman. Mr. M. declares that grog is a necessary article of drink in the Southern States.

Mr. J. took notice of the petition of the College of Physicians, which had lately been read in the House on the subject of distilled spirits. He disapproved highly of their interfering in the business. He thought they might with equal propriety interpose their offices to prevent the use of many other articles which were deemed pernicious or of a poisonous quality. He instanced mushrooms; they might petition Congress to pass a law interdicting the use of catsup, because some ignorant persons had been poisoned by eating mushrooms.

Mr. J. then gave a short sketch of the history of excises in England. He said they always had been considered by the people of that country as an odious tax, from the time of Oliver Cromwell to the present day; even Blackstone, a high prerogative lawyer, has reprobated them. He said, he hoped this country would take warning by the experience of the people of Great Britain, and not sacrifice their liberties by wantonly contracting debts which would render it necessary to burden the people by such taxes as would swallow up their privileges. We are, said he, too much in the habit of imitating that country; and I plainly perceive that the time will come when a shirt shall not be washed without an excise. He then expatiated on the unequal operation of excises, and instanced the experience of this State. A few counties, said he, approximate to the capital, have borne the weight of the whole, while the distant parts of the State did not feel the burden; and, by an indication of several particulars, he showed its unequal operation in the Southern States. It will deprive the mass of the people of almost the only luxury they enjoy, that of distilled spirits. He did not see the necessity of passing this law the present session. The amount of the produce of the duties laid last session is not yet known, nor is it yet ascertained whether the citizens will subscribe to the assumption. Let us not lay a tax for a purpose which may never exist; for my part, I hope they never will subscribe. He then adverted to the excess of duties already laid, and the probability of a great increase of that excess; and urged the propriety of waiting at least another quarter to see what that excess may amount to. These observations he enforced by recurring to the recent transactions of the States of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina; and he expected to hear very shortly that the Assembly of Georgia had expressed similar opinions with the latter States on the business of the assumption. He concluded by expressing a general disapprobation of the various parts of the bill.

Mr. PARKER said, he had seconded the motion of the gentleman from Georgia, not because he was more averse to this particular clause than to the subsequent parts of the bill. He exceedingly disliked the several provisions contained in it. He then adverted to the general process of the revenue business the last session; and observing on the conduct of the mercantile interest, to which so much credit had been given, said, he thought they were not entitled to the liberal encomiums which had been bestowed on them for their promptitude in paying the duties, as the certainty and increase of the revenue had served to enhance the value of the public securities, of which it is well known they hold a very considerable portion.

He then touched on the subsequent parts of the bill, which he reprobated as hostile to the liberties of the people, as contrary to the general sentiment; not only as partial and unequal in the mode of assessment, but particularly on account of the mode of collecting the tax. It will, said he, convulse the Government; it will let loose a swarm of harpies, who, under the denomination of revenue officers, will range through the country, prying into every man's house and affairs, and like a Macedonian phalanx bear down all before them. And though the Government has proceeded with a degree of prosperity and success beyond the most sanguine expectations, yet he very much doubted the policy of trying its strength by an experiment of this nature.

Recurring to the actual and probable produce of the duties already laid, he attempted to show that the additional sum of upwards of eight hundred thousand dollars, contemplated to be raised by this bill, is not necessary. He controverted the policy of the measure, and contended that it would, in all probability, rather diminish than increase the revenue of the United States. For the mercantile part of the community, who have been applauded for acting so honorably in making their entries, and paying the impost, will find it for their interest to alter their conduct; they will combine to defeat the excise, which will in its operations bear so unequally on them.

He objected very particularly to the bill on account of its tendency to promote smuggling. Mr. P. said, no man was more heartily disposed than he was to give his approbation to every just measure for supporting the public credit, and doing every thing in his power to support the constitutional operations of the Government; but this mode of raising a revenue he considered as particularly odious to the people; and at the present moment he was not satisfied that such an increase to the public burdens is necessary.

Mr. STONE said, he had no objection to the design of the bill so far as additional revenue was necessary; but the mode of raising it by excise he exceedingly disliked. He had no doubt that other means might be devised; but at present he thought the committee was not sufficiently informed respecting the actual and probable amount of the revenue from the duties already imposed, to determine the necessity of an addition to the revenue. He therefore moved that the committee should rise without any further discussion of the bill at this time, and that a select committee should be appointed to make the necessary previous inquiries upon the subject, and report to the House.

Mr. FITZSIMONS observed that there was already on the table a statement from the proper officers of the product of the revenue, from September, 1789, to September, 1790.

This statement was read.

The motion for the committee's rising was put and lost.

The question on Mr. JACKSON's motion for striking out the clause was put, and negatived by a great majority.

THURSDAY, January 6.

Duties on Spirits.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill repealing after the last day of ---- next, the act laying duties on distilled spirits, &c., and imposing others in their stead. Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

The twelfth section, which specifies the rates of duties, being read,

Mr. PARKER moved that it should be struck out, in order to admit a substitute which should provide for a different mode of raising the requisite additional revenue; the proposition he had in view, he said, was a duty on molasses. This, he observed, would answer every purpose, without being liable to the objections which had been offered against the plan of the bill.

Mr. MADISON observed, that he had felt the force of the objections which had been urged against the bill. He was in general principled against excises, but of all excises, that on ardent spirits he considered the least exceptionable. The question now to be determined, he conceived, was this--is an addition to the present amount of the revenue necessary? It had appeared that an addition is necessary; for his own part, he should prefer direct taxation to any excises whatever; but he conceived this would be contrary to the sentiments of a majority of the people of the United States; and he was fully convinced that it was contrary to the opinion of a great majority of the House. If, said he, any mode could be adopted, without having recourse to excises, he would be the last that would give them support; but he conceived there was none, and the plan proposed was divested of the most exceptionable provisions usually connected with an excise system.

Mr. JACKSON observed, that his defeat yesterday should not deter him, while he had a monitor within, from rising in his place to do his duty, in opposition to a system unfriendly to the liberties of the people. He said, he was not the first on this floor who had been outvoted by silent majorities; gentlemen of superior abilities had met with similar treatment. He, however, felt so much respect for himself as to suppose that this silence proceeded from an inability to answer the arguments which he had the honor to offer against what he considered a most ruinous and mischievous system of taxation.

He then stated certain particulars respecting the produce of the revenue, to show that so great a sum as is proposed to be raised by excise is unnecessary.

He doubted not other resources of revenue might be explored which would be more palatable; he instanced a tax on salaries, pensions, and lawyers, and in these particulars, he wished that the example of Great Britain might be followed.

He then dilated on the practice of smuggling, which he contended would be promoted by this bill; also the difficulties and opposition which were justly to be expected, by which the dignity of the Government would be insulted. Can this Government, said he, protect its officers from the resentment of any one State in the Union? He reprobated the idea of placing the Government in such a situation.

Mr. LAWRENCE observed, that he doubted not every gentleman's mind was open to conviction, and he hoped and expected that every question would be treated dispassionately. He did not rise yesterday to answer the gentleman, because he was not impressed with the force of his arguments in the manner the gentleman supposed the House was. He then adverted to the act of the last session, by which the debts of the particular States were assumed. Having taken this debt upon ourselves, the consequence is obvious, nor can we ever get over the dishonor of not making the necessary provision for paying it. He then adverted to the statements which had been submitted to the House by the officer to whom the Union had intrusted the direction of its finances. From these it fully appeared that a much greater deficiency in the revenue existed than some gentlemen appeared willing to allow. If this deficiency exists, and if the United States are bound to make provision for the debts they have assumed to pay, the duties contemplated by the bill appear the most obvious for the Government to recur to. He adverted to the idea of direct taxation, and inquired, on what principle will gentlemen consent to this mode of raising the necessary supplies? Will they make the representation of the several States the rule by which it shall be apportioned? He doubted whether direct taxes on this principle would be agreeable, even to the gentlemen who have mentioned them. He then remarked on the objections to an excise, on account of the mode of collection. He said a rigorous collection would bear hard only on the dishonest, while it would protect the fair trader from bearing an undue proportion of the public burdens.

He observed on the uneasiness which is said to prevail in some of the States; and to obviate the force of these reflections he instanced the harmony and peace that prevailed in those States which bear a much greater proportion of the public burdens than those which complain, as was abundantly evident from the documents in possession of the House.

Mr. STEELE stated his objections at large to an excise; he adverted to the particular situation of affairs in some of the Southern States, especially North Carolina. The Assembly of that State had rejected the proposal of taking an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, with scorn; they had also refused to admit Continental prisoners into their jails; and another circumstance more hostile to the General Government than either of the foregoing had taken place, which he forbore to mention. He said such was the present state of the public mind, in various parts of the Union, that he should dread taking any measures which might serve to increase the fermentation which the people are in. An excise he considered of this nature; it would in its operations produce the worst consequences. A more exceptionable mode of taxation he conceived could not be devised. A direct or poll tax, he supposed, would not be so odious; and though, for his own part, he should prefer an excise to either of the former taxes, yet such was the aversion of the people to it, that he should prefer almost any other alternative. He thought other objects might be found from which the necessary revenue could be raised. He instanced duties on inland navigation, law proceedings, legal conveyances, &c.

He then adverted to the operation of an excise, especially in the State of North Carolina, and said that the consumption of ardent spirits in that State was so great that the duty would amount perhaps to ten times as much as in the State of Connecticut. On the whole, he hoped, if the section is not struck out, that the excise will be reduced.

Mr. SHERMAN observed, that the subject now before the committee was thoroughly discussed the last session; and as nothing new or of weight or importance had been offered the present session against it, he thought it would be a useless waste of the time of the House to go into a particular reply to the objections offered against the bill. This he thought a sufficient answer to the charge of carrying questions by silent majorities.

He then entered into a short consideration of the subject generally, and defended the system from the charges which had been adduced respecting its unequal operation.

Mr. LIVERMORE was in favor of the bill. He said he considered it as an equal and just mode of taxation; and, as such, will be agreeable to the people--they will consider it as drinking down the national debt. So far, said he, as my observations have extended, I have not found a single individual who has objected to it. He then obviated the objections to the bill, which he conceived arose principally from the word excise. He thought the term very improperly applied on the present occasion, for the duty cannot be said to be an excise. He then gave a description of what had been considered in times past as an excise, which, to be sure, is a very unequal tax, inasmuch as it fell on the poor only, who were obliged to purchase in small quantities; while the rich, by storing their cellars, escaped the duty. But this bill provides that the duty shall fall equally on the rich and poor. It is to be paid, or secured, by the importer of foreign spirits, and on the still-head on domestic spirits. This will equalize the burden, and leave no room for complaint. He then adverted to direct taxation; and by a variety of particulars, showed that it was utterly impossible to lay a direct tax that would not prove unjust, unequal, and grievously oppressive.

Mr. BLOODWORTH spoke against the bill. He dilated largely on the present uneasiness which prevailed in the State of North Carolina. His experience, he said, was directly contrary to that of the gentleman from New Hampshire; the people to the southward universally condemned an excise.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he was unhappy to hear that discontents prevailed in any part of the United States. He could assure gentlemen that he did not contemplate the execution of the laws by military force. He was sure that in no part of the Legislature were entertained designs inimical to the public liberty. In framing the present bill, great attention had been paid to prevent its being attended with those qualities which, in other countries, rendered taxation by excise justly obnoxious to popular resentment. He relied on the good sense and well-informed understandings of the people in every part of America, for the execution of such systems for the support of public credit, and for the diminution of the national debt, as should be devised by the wisdom of their Representatives. For the same purposes, he said, he confided in the patriotism of the gentlemen who came from those districts of country where uneasiness was said to exist. He believed there was indeed considerable deficiency to be provided for, for the support of Government and of the public credit. This belief was founded in his confidence in the information received from the Secretary of the Treasury. But if there was no deficiency, his disposition to support the bill would be the same; for he had never believed that a public debt was a public benefit. Is it not, then, the duty of those to whom the people have delegated the important trust of guarding their prosperity, in a season of profound peace, to liberate them from the burden and pressure of debt? Therefore the only question to be determined is, whether the proposed duties are a proper source from whence we might derive the necessary aids to provide for the payment of the interest, or the diminution of the principal of our debt? He believed that of all the subjects of revenue which were within the power of Congress, none was so proper as the duty on ardent spirits, contemplated by the bill. In this sentiment, he believed he concurred with that of the great body of the people. The several species of taxation may be divided into the four following: by impost; a tax on internal negotiations; direct taxes; and that now under consideration, excise. The impost duties had been extended as far as was, in the opinion of any gentleman, dictated by sound policy. The tax on internal negotiations, which could not be carried on to any considerable extent without the intervention of stamps, was subject to the objection brought against the present bill, and that in a degree incomparably beyond it, of being opposed by public opinion. Direct taxes are still more objectionable on that account, at least in every part of the country to which his knowledge extended. They are of all taxes the most unequal, and in this country would be found the most oppressive. They are unequal, because with whatever exactness they might be apportioned upon capital or income, the only two principles on which an apportionment can be made, they may, and will be, very unequal as to the burden imposed; because a man's ability to pay taxes is not in proportion either to his capital, his property, or his income, but to that part of his income which is over and above his necessary expenses, according to the usual manner of living for persons of his degree in the community. They will be oppressive in this country, because in many of the States the plentiful circulation of money, and the facility of obtaining it, does not extend to the interior parts, nor could it be obtained by many of our citizens without a great sacrifice of property. It may be added, that from the extent of our settlements compared with the number of our citizens, the expense of collection would be immense.

In regard to excises, Mr. S. said, that in all insensible modes of taxation, it should be observed, that a much greater sum would be obtained from an individual than by any mode of direct imposition: this, without entering into a discussion of the reasons upon which it was founded, is demonstrated by fact. He instanced the porters of London, from whom, in the single article of beer, was drawn ten times as much as could be procured by the most rigorous mode of direct taxation. With regard to the proposed duties, though the well-meant consideration of morality which had been urged by some gentlemen weighed but little with him, because he doubted whether it was well founded, yet, if the consumption should be lessened, he did not believe it would be attended with any sensible inconvenience. The consumption, at present, amounts to an enormous quantity; from these considerations, as the measure is dictated by sound policy, he hoped and believed it would be supported by a good degree of unanimity.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) adverted to the funding system, to show that the faith of the United States was pledged to raise a sufficient revenue to discharge the debt, which, by that system, they have engaged to pay. The Secretary's statements point out a deficiency; those statements, he had no doubt, were as accurate as the nature of things would admit. Gentlemen who find fault with the proposed plan do not offer a substitute. He then entered into a defence of the bill, and showed in what respects it differed from the English plan of an excise.

He said, the present bill was not so exceptionable on account of its violating private property as the collection law.

He instanced, in a particular clause of that law, the power of entering houses by warrant from a justice of the peace--trial by jury is secured by this bill, and other provisions friendly to personal rights are added.

Direct taxes are as much objected to by North Carolina as the excise; and though direct taxes are mentioned, no plan is offered.

He then enlarged on the importance of punctuality in paying the interest of the public debt, and of having a surplus revenue in the Treasury. He doubted not the gentlemen in favor of the bill were as patriotic as those who are averse to it. Difference of opinion is to be expected; but he had a better opinion of the good sense of the community than to suppose they would be led away by a sound; they will see and judge for themselves; and when they see that the law is free from all those obnoxious qualities which have been suggested, they will submit to it without complaint, especially when they realize that the tax is equal, and the only effective resource within the present command of the Government. The General Government is authorized to lay excises--North Carolina knew this when she adopted the constitution. The opposition, he suspected, was against the object to which the money is to be appropriated.

Mr. GILES said, the sentiments of the people of the Southern States have been so differently represented from what he conceived to be the state of facts, that, in justice to them he conceived himself bound to take some notice of the observations which had fallen from gentlemen. He then stated certain principles on which taxation should be formed. Taxes should be necessary, and raised on a plan consistent with the principles of liberty. He adverted to the necessity, which, he observed, was abundantly apparent from the report of the Secretary of the Treasury; but he did not confine his opinion to what had fallen from him. He instanced other reasons which would occasion a necessity for replenishing the public Treasury. The expediency of the present mode he argued from the impost's being carried to the utmost; from the approbation of this mode by a majority of the people; and though uneasiness might prevail in some of the Southern States, he considered them as originating altogether from want of due information. Possessed of that information, he could pledge himself to the committee that they would cheerfully acquiesce in whatever the Legislature should decide to be for the general interest.

With respect to the bill's being agreeable to the principles of liberty and republicanism, this would more properly come into view when that part of the bill which designates the mode of collection comes under consideration. At present he would only say, that he had observed with pleasure, that there appeared to be a universal disposition in the members of the House to manifest the most scrupulous attention, in all their deliberations, to the liberties of the people.

On the whole, he had no doubt that, on mature reflection, the people would acquiesce in the present plan, when the honor, security, and peace of the United States appeared to be essentially connected with a further provision for the public exigencies.

Mr. STONE particularly alluded to the statement offered by Mr. JACKSON, by which it appears that only the sum of 146,000 dollars was wanting--whereas the Secretary's report calls for the enormous sum of 800,000 dollars. He called on gentlemen to show the errors of the statement offered by the gentleman. It had not been done.

He then adverted to the number of people that would probably be wanted in order to make the duty productive. He believed they would be so numerous as to be sufficient to constitute an army.

Mr. FITZSIMONS read an estimate of the actual and probable produce of the present impost and tonnage for the current year, by which it appears there will be a deficiency of upwards of 300,000 dollars; but taking into consideration certain contingencies, which, should they take place, will diminish the amount of the present duties, it appeared that the deficiency would be much larger than the sum mentioned; but even in case of a surplus being produced by this bill, there are objects to which it can be applied highly beneficial to the United States. He instanced sinking the deferred stock, and the three per cents. The reduction of the public debt is an object which ought never to be lost sight of.

MONDAY, January 10.

Vacancy in the Presidency.

In Committee of the Whole on the bill, declaring what officer, in case of vacancy [by death, removal, or inability] in the offices of President and Vice President, shall act as President, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

The first clause of the bill was read, which contains a blank to be filled up, designating the person who shall act as President.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed that, by the constitution, the vacancy is to be filled with an officer of the United States. This narrows the discussion very much. But he conceived there was a previous question necessary to be determined; and that was, whether the person appointed to supply the vacancy should hold the office during the time for which the President and Vice President were elected, or whether he was to hold the office only till a new election could take place. He thought that, by the constitution, a new election was not to take place till the term for which the President and Vice President had been elected was expired.

He then descanted on the respective offices of the Chief Justice, Secretary of State, and Secretary of the Treasury; and, by several particulars, showed that the appointment would most naturally devolve on the Secretary of State. He accordingly moved that the blank be filled with the words "The Secretary of State."

Mr. LIVERMORE observed, that in considering this question, he thought no reference should be had to the officers which had been mentioned, for, as it was supposed that the case contemplated would not happen once in a hundred years, he conceived that the present characters, who now hold the above offices, would be entirely out of the question. He had in view a different person, and that was the President of the Senate, pro tempore, and moved that the blank be filled with this person.

Mr. WHITE observed, that the constitution says the vacancy shall be filled by an officer of the United States. The President, pro tempore, of the Senate, is not an officer of the United States. Besides, this will give one branch of the Legislature the power of electing a President. This, he conceived, was contrary to the constitution, as both branches have a right to an equal voice in the appointment in this case. This will introduce the very evil intended to be guarded against.

Mr. WILLIAMSON said, the motion was directly repugnant to the constitution. Why not choose the Speaker of this House?

Mr. LIVERMORE said, he was well aware of the objections offered by the gentlemen. He could have wished the constitution had pointed out the person. But he conceived that the Senate was the only body that could do this business. If either of the officers mentioned should be the person designated to supply the vacancy, it would be in the power of the Vice President, by virtue of the power of removing officers, absolutely to appoint a successor, without consulting either branch of the Legislature.

Mr. SHERMAN observed that this matter is left with the Legislature. The whole power of the people, in case of vacancy, devolves on the Legislature. The particular officer is not pointed out; it lies with Congress to say who it shall be. The President of the Senate is an officer of the United States. In case of the death of a Governor and Lieutenant Governor, it is common in the several States, for the oldest councillor to preside. He instanced the case of the abdication of James II. Adverting to the constitution, he showed that the appointment of Vice President, in certain cases, devolves on the Senate. The vacancy may be filled for a longer or shorter time, and this appears to be a question previous in its nature to be determined.

Mr. SEDGWICK said he should be in favor of the motion of the gentleman from New Hampshire, if it was not for the express provision in the constitution, which says, the office shall be filled by an officer of the United States. Should the vacancy now happen, there would be no officer of the Senate that could be appointed.

He mentioned that the office of Chief Justice was considered as next to that of President, and therefore on the whole, he considered him as the most proper person to fill the vacancy. He thought the bill respecting the votes for President and Vice President should be first determined. He moved, therefore, that the committee should rise, and take up the next bill.

Mr. CARROLL and Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the motion for the committee's rising.

Mr. MADISON was also opposed to the motion. He enlarged on the subject, and said he thought it a duty urged by a variety of considerations, important in themselves, and more so, perhaps, in their consequences, that the decision should now be made.

Mr. SMITH started a variety of objections to Mr. LIVERMORE's proposition. He thought it unconstitutional, as it would, in its operation, deprive a State of a vote in the Senate.

Mr. BOURNE said he seconded the motion for the committee's rising, because he conceived there was other business of more immediate importance to be considered; and he saw no necessity for coming to a decision on this question at the present time.

Mr. LAWRENCE supposed that the blank could be filled up in the House; he was, therefore, in favor of the committee's rising.

The motion for the committee's rising was negatived.

Mr. BENSON was in favor of filling up the blank with the Chief Justice. He observed that the objection arising from the Vice President's having it in his power to name his successor, in case the Secretary of State is inserted, does not apply to the Chief Justice. He is independent of the Executive.

He pointed out several particulars, in which there was an incompatibility in the offices of Secretary of State, and that of President. He observed that the appointment to the Regency, in all countries, is generally of the first law officer.

Mr. JACKSON objected to the Chief Justice, and said the Speaker of the House of Representatives was, in his opinion, the next officer in point of dignity to the President and Vice President.

Mr. MADISON objected to the Chief Justice, as it would be blending the Judiciary and the Executive. He objected to the President pro tem. of the Senate. He will be a Senator of some particular State, liable to be instructed by the State, and will still hold his office--thus he will hold two offices at once. He adverted to the other objections which had been offered against the Secretary of the State, and showed the compatibility of the two offices.

Mr. STONE stated sundry difficulties respecting all the officers that had been named; but, on the whole, thought there were fewer against the Secretary of State than any other officer that had been mentioned.

Mr. SENEY was opposed to coming to any decision at the present time. He thought more important business was before the House. He was not for making any decision that would give umbrage to any officer of the Government. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of the Treasury were equally entitled to public notice.

Mr. CARROLL was in favor of coming to a decision; and if nothing more could be offered against the motion for filling up the blank with the Secretary of State, he presumed the committee were ripe for a decision. He referred to the situation of countries who had not, in season, made provision for a Regent, &c.

Mr. SHERMAN said, he was in favor of the committee's rising and reporting the bill, and leaving the blanks to be filled up in the House.

Mr. WHITE was in favor of filling up the blank in the committee--he saw no reason for a delay. The officers mentioned are as well known now as they will be three days hence. The President and Vice President being in health, is a reason why the subject should now be considered; it can be done with coolness and freedom from all warmth.

Mr. LAWRENCE said, he thought there was no necessity for precipitating the decision. With respect to every person that has been named, difficulties have been started. The subject is important, and time should be given to deliberate on the several officers that have been named. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would rise and report the bill, and leave the blank to be filled up at another time.

Mr. BURKE was in favor of the committee's rising. He observed, that the members in general appeared to be very much undetermined. This is the first day the subject has been under consideration. He hoped the members would not be precipitated to vote on the occasion.

Mr. CARROLL said, if the committee should rise, he hoped the bill would not be reported, but that they would sit again.

Mr. BURKE said, he hoped the committee would sit again.

The question on the committee's rising and reporting progress, was carried in the affirmative.

THURSDAY, January 13.

Vacancy in the Presidency.

In Committee of the Whole, on the bill declaring the officer who, in case of vacancy in the offices of President and Vice President, shall exercise the office of President of the United States, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

The motion for filling up the blank with "the Secretary of State for the time being," was renewed by Mr. CARROLL.

Mr. LIVERMORE observed, that the character of the gentleman who fills that office should have no weight in determining the question, because the House was about to provide for a case that might not happen before a number of years were elapsed. The House should fix on the officer who would, from the nature of his office, most naturally succeed. He hoped they would not determine in favor of an officer of their own creating, and of which no mention is made in the constitution. The Chief Justice, he remarked, had been spoken of: one great objection he mentioned against him--the provision which the constitution makes in case the President is impeached, viz: that he should preside. As this was an elective Government, he wished its principles preserved, and not to see the Chief Magistracy filled by an officer not the choice of the people. The President of the Senate pro tem, appeared to him a much fitter officer to fill that station: he was originally chosen by the people to the Senate.

When amendments to the constitution came to be thought of, perhaps it would be proper to provide for this case by a special clause in it, empowering the Electors who had chosen the President and Vice President, in case of vacancy, to meet again, and make another choice; only, however, for the remainder of the four years; because, at the end of that time, the power of choosing the Electors should return to, and be exercised by the several States.

If the motion before the committee was negatived, he gave notice that he would bring in his, viz: to fill up the blank with the person last antecedently chosen President of the Senate.

Mr. BALDWIN said, that he should vote for the present motion, because he conceived that the constitution is express, that an officer of the Government, designated either by the law or the constitution, should be appointed to fill this vacancy. He stated some objections against the Chief Justice. He is an officer who ought to be entirely detached from all political agitations whatever--his mind ought to be kept calm and as unembarrassed as possible. He quoted the precedent established in the law instituting the Governor of the Western Territory--there the Secretary is to succeed the Governor. The Secretary of State is an Executive officer, an assistant to the President, and must be supposed, from his situation, to be the most proper person to supply the vacancy.

Mr. SHERMAN was of opinion, that putting the Chief Magistracy into the hands of a subordinate officer, was by no means proper. As to the observations made by the gentleman last up, on the arrangements in the Government of the Western Territory, he did not think they could be applied to the present case. That Government is a subordinate one, and a kind of legislative power is vested in the Governor of selecting, from the laws and regulations of the different States, such as he thought requisite for the Government of those he had under his care.

He was in favor of giving the supreme Executive, in case of accident, to the President of the Senate. The Government would certainly suffer fewer inconveniences by that arrangement than if the head of a department was put in. The Vice President, by the constitution, succeeds to the President--the President of the Senate to the office of the first; it is therefore very natural that he should also exercise the duties of the second in case of a vacancy.

To designate any officer as possible successor to the President, would be giving him too much dignity, and raising him, in a manner, even above the Legislature.

Mr. CARROLL observed, that the vacancy might happen in the recess of the Legislature, or in the absence of the President of the Senate; the Secretary of State would always be at the seat of Government. Besides, the constitution declares the vacancy shall be filled by an officer of the Government. The President of the Senate is only an officer pro tem. If the framers of the constitution had intended the vacancy should be filled by an officer named in it, they could have designated him; but this they had not done; he therefore supposed they had in view some officer not then in existence.

Mr. GERRY regretted that the subject should have been taken up at this moment, when so much important business is before Congress. He adverted to the motion, and said, that the character which now fills the office of Secretary of State undoubtedly possessed the confidence of the Legislature in the fullest manner, and very justly; but when the exigency shall arrive for which we now are about to provide, a character may fill that office who would be a scourge to the Union. Besides, said he, if the office of Vice President was now to be filled, the Secretary of State would be ineligible, coming from the same State with the President. He stated other objections from the constitution. He thought the nomination should not be confined to officers of the United States. He supposed the views of Government may be extended even to officers of the several States. He, however, wished the whole business postponed; but if this idea is overruled, he suggested the propriety of filling the blank with the constitutional clause respecting the highest candidates who are primarily voted for as President and Vice President.

Mr. SMITH remarked, that there appeared to be so great a diversity of opinion on the subject before the House, that he doubted the possibility of procuring a majority for either of the motions that had been made. There would be objections, he conceived, to any proposition that could be offered; but the committee should determine on that to which there were fewest. To the Secretary of State he thought there were less than to any other officer proposed. Those against the Chief Justice he thought unanswerable. Indeed, the gentleman who proposed him had not offered any answer to the objections made to that officer.

The duties of the President of the Senate, and those of the President of the United States, appeared to him incompatible. The first was the Representative of a particular State, and bound to obey the instructions of it. If he was to be deprived of his seat in the Senate, his State would lose a vote there, and the balance of that branch of the Legislature would be destroyed.

He recapitulated the objections that had already been made to the Chief Justice's filling the chair. His power of expounding treaties would be improperly mixed with that of making them; that of condemning for offences, with a power of granting reprieves and pardons. Then the Chief Justice could not act with propriety as Commander-in-Chief of the army and navy. It had been said, he observed, that the Judiciary business might go on for some time without the assistance of the Chief Justice. He thought not; there were three Circuit Courts, and two Judges for each, including the Chief Justice. If he was absent, the business of one of the circuits could not proceed; besides, he should preside in the Supreme Court.

He concluded by saying, that the office of Secretary of State and the duties of President were analogous. He was a kind of assistant to the Chief Magistrate, and would, therefore, very properly supply his place; besides, he was always at the seat of Government.

Mr. BURKE said, that he had consulted a gentleman skilled in the doctrine of chances, who, after considering the subject, had informed him, that there was an equal chance that such a contingency would not happen more than once in eight hundred and forty years. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would not spend any more time upon the subject, but postpone it altogether.

Mr. GILES conceived, that the probability of the event taking place was much greater than Mr. BURKE seemed to think. According to the doctrine of politics, he said, it was not more than fifty to one that it would not happen in two months. However, even if the chance was much less, it was the duty of the House to make provision for the accident before it occurred. If it was left till the case actually took place, it would then be too late to think of remedying the evil; for it was to be provided for by a Legislative act, which could not be made complete without the President's approbation and signature, and could therefore not be obtained when the chair was vacant. Then, if the event should happen before it was provided for, there would be, he conceived, an end to this Government.

He used another argument to urge the necessity of a speedy provision. Suppose, said he, the Vice President should die, then the fate of this Government would remain in the hands of the President, who, by resigning, would destroy its organization, without leaving a constitutional mode of filling the vacancy.

In addition to the loss of this Government, would not every member of the Legislature, he asked, lose his character, credit, and reputation?

Having shown the necessity of making immediate provision for a case of so much importance to the very existence of the Government, Mr. GILES declared he was in favor of filling up the blank with the Secretary of State. He chiefly rested his opinion on the idea, that if the constitution had not intended that the vacancy should be filled by some officer not there mentioned, they would have determined who it should be.

Mr. SEDGWICK was sorry that the business had been brought forward, and more so that gentlemen should discover a zeal on the occasion which indicated too much of taking a personal interest in the question.

He did not apprehend the consequences which would follow, if the accident should occur, would be so dreadful as the gentleman last up appeared to think. There was more danger, he conceived, in ruffling men's tempers now, by designating one officer heir apparent (if he might be allowed the expression) to the office of Chief Magistrate.

He objected to filling up the blank with the Secretary of State; it would be putting in the hands of the President (or of the Vice President) a power of appointing his successor. The authority with which the Chief Justice is vested, the respect which his station commands, and his independence, induced him, he said, at first to think him the most proper person to be at the head of affairs, in case of vacancy in the Chief Magistracy. However, if it could not be agreed to postpone the business, he should now vote for the President of the Senate pro tem.

Mr. BENSON said, that an honorable gentleman (Mr. SMITH) had remarked that he had not attempted to answer the objections which were made to the Chief Justice's being designated to fill the vacancy, and had drawn the conclusion that the objections were unanswerable. He was sensible that there might and would be objections to any officer that could be mentioned; but those against the Chief Justice he did not think unanswerable. It had been objected that there would be an impropriety in his condemning as Chief Justice, and pardoning as President. But something like this is frequently the case. He supposed that whoever exercised the office of Chief Magistrate would for the time resign his first office. He only mentioned this to show that the objections made to the Chief Justice had not been answered because they were deemed unanswerable. But his wish was to see the vacancy filled by an independent officer; he had, therefore, no objection to the President of the Senate pro tem.

Mr. JACKSON moved that the consideration of this business be postponed, which was agreed to. The committee rose and reported.

FRIDAY, January 21.

Duty on Spirits.

The House resumed the consideration of the new Revenue Bill.

Mr. JACKSON proposed an amendment, by adding a clause to prevent inspectors, or any officers under them, from interfering, either directly or indirectly, in elections, further than giving their own votes, on penalty of forfeiting their offices.

This being seconded,

Mr. SHERMAN said, he should propose an addition to the amendment, and that was to extend the prohibition to every other person whatever. He supposed that to practise the arts of electioneering would be as criminal in persons in general as in the officers of the revenue; but if any provision is necessary in the case, he thought it might be made in some other bill.

Mr. LIVERMORE approved the motion. These officers, said he, will hold their places under the Government, and, from the duties assigned them, will acquire such a knowledge of persons and characters, as will give them great advantages, and enable them to influence elections to a great degree. He thought the proposition important, and merited the attention of the House.

Mr. VINING observed, that the motion went to disfranchise a great number of citizens of the rights of suffrage. It appeared to him, also, to be unconstitutional, as it will deprive them of speaking and writing their minds; a right of which no law can divest them. He offered some observations on the eligibility of the duty now contemplated, in preference to direct taxes; and then urged the bad policy of rendering the law odious, by fixing a stigma on the officers appointed to execute it.

Mr. JACKSON replied to the observations against his motion. He said the experience of Great Britain showed the propriety of the prohibition. He read a section from a law passed in the reign of William and Mary on the subject. A law was found necessary in that country to prevent the interference of excise officers in elections, though the excise law then in existence was only for ten years, and that now before us is a perpetual law; for it is to exist till the whole State debts are extinguished. He denied that it was a disfranchisement of the citizens; they will have the same right to vote at the elections as other citizens; it only goes to defining an offence, which may be of pernicious consequence. Did I consider it as depriving the citizens of the rights of suffrage, I would be the last to vote for it. He adverted particularly to the dangerous influence that some future President would acquire, by virtue of the power which he will possess of removing these officers. He read some clauses from the British Excise Law, to show its resemblance to the law now under consideration. He added some strictures on the bill, and regretted that it had not been recommitted; but to render it less odious and mischievous he strongly urged the necessity of the section he had proposed.

Mr. BENSON said, there appeared to him to be an absurdity to say a man shall forfeit an office which he holds during pleasure.

Mr. GERRY objected to the motion, because he thought it did not go far enough; it ought to extend to all other revenue officers. He gave a short account of the nature of civil government; no form, said he, is stationary, they are always verging either to Democracy or Monarchy, or to Aristocracy and Despotism. From hence, he drew an inference favorable to a provision which should tend to abate and lessen the influence of the Executive power in certain cases.

Mr. AMES objected to the motion. He said, the circumstances of this country and Great Britain were not similar. That country is without a constitution; the United States are blessed with one, which defines the rights of the electors and the elected; rights of which they cannot be deprived. The law which the gentleman referred to was not passed till the abuses it was intended to remedy had arisen to an enormous height. If ever there should be a necessity for a similar law in this country, which he by no means expected, it will then be time enough to make the regulation; but this clause will muzzle the mouths of freemen, and take away the use of their reason.

Mr. BLOODWORTH replied to Mr. AMES. He observed, that corruptions had taken place; elections have been influenced, and human nature being the same, the same evils are to be expected. He thought it would be best to prevent the evil if possible by enacting a law in season, and not wait till the mischief is done.

Mr. SENEY was in favor of the clause. He thought it would be a salutary provision, and no infringement on the rights of the people, as it would be optional to accept the offices or not, with this restriction.

Mr. STONE was in favor of the motion. He observed, that it was a painful consideration that a number of citizens should be disfranchised, and deprived of their reason and speech, but this is a dilemma to which we shall be reduced by means of this excise law; we must either deprive the excise officers of this privilege of interfering, or give up the freedom of elections.

Mr. VINING controverted the oft-repeated observation, that there was an analogy between the two countries, Great Britain and America. He urged an acceleration of the bill; delays he thought did not produce conviction, they only serve to inflame; he hoped the clause would not be agreed to, nor the bill recommitted.

Mr. LAWRENCE was sorry that there were so many impediments thrown in the way of this bill. He could wish that the clause might be deferred, and made the subject of a separate discussion. He objected to it as not extensive enough. It ought to include all the officers of the Government. At present, he should waive any further remarks, but hoped the motion would not be agreed to at this time, but wished that the bill might be finished.

Mr. SEDGWICK opposed the motion. He said, the natural tendency would be to render the law odious; to deprive the Government of the services of the best men in our country. Let me ask gentlemen, if they, or any of their connections, would accept an appointment under this law, with such an exceptionable clause in it? He observed on the total difference in the circumstances of this country and those of Great Britain; and asked, shall we transplant the corrupt maxims of that country to this? I hope we shall not.

Mr. GERRY replied to the several objections which had been offered against the motion. It will be too late, said he, when the evil takes place to apply the remedy. The President will then have it in his power to influence the elections in such manner as to procure a Legislature that would not consent to a law for applying a remedy.

Mr. AMES reprobated the motion in very pointed terms, as impolitic in respect to the law, as repugnant to the constitution, and as degrading to human nature. Besides, he observed, that it was nugatory in itself, because it goes to deprive the citizens of an inalienable right, which you cannot take from them, nor can they divest themselves of it.

Mr. JACKSON made a short reply to Mr. AMES. He observed, that he had always supposed that the English nation possessed a constitution, and that the violation of the freedom of elections was the greatest infringement on that constitution.

Mr. SHERMAN observed, that this motion went to create a positive offence. He said he could not conceive any reason why this offence should be chargeable on one description of officers only; he thought it ought to go through, and include every class. He replied to the several objections arising from the influence of the President; and observed, that fixing such a stigma would oblige the President to appoint mean and ordinary characters--characters fit to make tools of; for persons of credit and respectability will not accept of appointments under such a disqualification.

The question was determined in the negative, the yeas and nays being as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Floyd, Gerry, Grout, Hathorn, Heister, Jackson, Livermore, Mathews, Moore, Parker, Rensselaer, Seney, Sylvester, Stone, Tucker, and White--21.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Bourne, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Foster, Gale, Gilman, Goodhue, Griffin, Giles, Hartley, Huntington, Lawrence, Lee, Leonard, Madison, P. Muhlenberg, Schureman, Scott, Sedgwick, Sevier, Sherman, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Steele, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, Williamson, and Wynkoop--37.[38]

THURSDAY, January 27.

Duty on Spirits.

The engrossed bill, repealing, after the last day of June next, the duties heretofore laid on distilled spirits imported from abroad, and laying others in their stead, and also upon spirits distilled within the United States, and for appropriating the same, was passed by a majority of fourteen.

The yeas and nays being called for, were as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Bourne, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Griffin, Grout, Huntington, Lawrence, Lee, Leonard, Livermore, Madison, Partridge, Schureman, Sedgwick, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Smith (of South Carolina), Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, White, and Wynkoop--35.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Giles, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Jackson, Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Parker, Van Rensselaer, Seney, Smith (of Maryland), Steele, Stone, Tucker, and Williamson--21.

TUESDAY, February 1.

Bank of the United States.

The bill sent from the Senate, to incorporate the subscribers to the Bank of the United States, was read the third time; and, the question being on the passage of the bill,

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed, that the bill being taken up rather unexpectedly yesterday, gentlemen did not appear prepared to discuss the subject. It therefore was suffered to be read in Committee of the Whole, and passed to the third reading, in his opinion, rather informally; as the members were thereby deprived of giving their sentiments in the usual manner on a bill of the greatest importance. He thought it susceptible of various amendments. [The SPEAKER having observed, that the bill, agreeably to the rules of the House, could not be amended without being recommitted,] Mr. S. moved, that the bill should be recommitted, for the purpose of making sundry alterations, and removing objections which he thought the bill liable to. He then enumerated several objections. Those who are to receive the subscriptions, he said, by the bill, are not obliged to give any bonds for their fidelity. He thought the clause which excludes foreigners from voting by proxy exceptionable; and the time in which subscriptions are to be received, he thought too contracted.

Mr. JACKSON said he was in favor of the motion for a recommitment; but not for the reasons offered by the gentleman from South Carolina. He was opposed to the principle of the bill altogether. He then adverted to the situation of the United States, and observed, that it was so different from that of Great Britain, at the time the Bank was established in that country, that no reason in favor of the institution can be deduced from thence. He adverted to the arguments arising from the facility which banks afford of anticipating the public resources in case of emergency. This idea of anticipations he reprobated, as tending to involve the country in debt, and an endless labyrinth of perplexities. This plan of a National Bank, said he, is calculated to benefit a small part of the United States, the mercantile interest only; the farmers, the yeomanry, will derive no advantage from it; as the bank bills will not circulate to the extremities of the Union. He said he had never seen a bank bill in the State of Georgia, nor will they ever benefit the farmers of that State, or of New Hampshire. He urged that there was no necessity for instituting a new bank. There is one already established in this city, under the style of the Bank of North America. This proposed institution is an infringement of the charter of that bank, which cannot be justified. He urged the unconstitutionality of the plan; called it a monopoly; such a one as contravenes the spirit of the constitution; a monopoly of a very extraordinary nature; a monopoly of the public moneys for the benefit of the corporation to be created. He then read several passages from the Federalist, which he said were directly contrary to the assumption of the power proposed by the bill. He hoped, therefore, that it would be recommitted; and he could not help hoping, also, that it would be deferred to the next session.

Mr. LAWRENCE observed, that the friends of the institution proposed had been unjustly charged with precipitating the bill; but, he said, it had long been in the hands of the members; they have had time to consider it; the usual forms have been observed in its progress thus far; and if those who are opposed to the bill did not see proper to come forward with their objections, it surely is their own fault, and the advocates of the bill are not justly chargeable with precipitancy. He then particularly replied to the objections offered by Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina; and after considering them, said, that those objections did not, in his opinion, constitute sufficient reason to induce a recommitment of the bill. He then noticed the constitutional objections of Mr. JACKSON, and said, the Government of the United States is vested by the constitution with a power of borrowing money; and in pursuance of this idea, they have a right to create a capital, by which they may, with greater facility, carry the power of borrowing on any emergency into effect. Under the late Confederation, the Pennsylvania Bank, called the Bank of North America, was instituted. He presumed that it will not be controverted, that the present Government is vested with powers equal to those of the late Confederation. He said, that he had no doubt its operation would benefit, not only the centre, but the extremities also of the Union. The commercial, mechanical, and agricultural interests of the United States are so combined, that one cannot be benefited without benefiting the other. He concluded by observing, that he thought the Legislature of the United States could not better answer the purposes of their appointment, than by passing this bill. He hoped, therefore, that it would not be recommitted, but that it would now pass.

Mr. LEE observed, that having been confined by sickness, he was precluded from attending the House yesterday; but sick as he was, had he supposed that there was a prospect of a bill of such magnitude and importance passing without a discussion of its principles, he certainly would have attended, and offered his objections to various parts of it, which he thought very exceptionable. He hoped, therefore, it would now be recommitted; that a bill which is so unequal and so partial may undergo a thorough discussion.

Mr. TUCKER was in favor of a recommitment. He acknowledged that those who had their objections to the bill were certainly blamable for not coming forward with them yesterday. He then stated sundry objections to the bill. The time allowed to receive the subscriptions, he said, is too short, and will benefit those only in the vicinity of the Bank. The clause which authorizes the loaning of one hundred thousand dollars to the Government, without express provision by law, he thought exceptionable, as the Executive will be able, by this means, to borrow at any time, without being authorized, to almost any amount, of the Bank. The loan of two millions of dollars by the United States to the Bank, he objected to; as diverting that sum from the particular object for which it was borrowed. There is no appropriation, he said, of the half yearly dividend of profits accruing to the United States, which, he observed, was a very essential defect. Mr. T. stated other objections, as reasons for a recommitment.

Mr. WILLIAMSON was in favor of the recommitment, to give those who say they have not had an opportunity of offering their objections, time to do it; and if the motion be not agreed to, he should not give his vote for the bill. He then adverted to the objections deduced from the constitution, and explained the clause respecting monopolies as referring altogether to commercial monopolies.

Mr. SHERMAN objected to the recommitment. He said, that though the bill could not be amended without its being recommitted, yet it was open to discussion and objection previous to taking a vote on its passage. He did not think the objections offered afforded sufficient reasons for a recommitment. He replied to the observations offered by several gentlemen who had spoken in favor of the motion.

Mr. GERRY expressed his surprise at the observations of gentlemen who had neglected to offer their objections to the bill before, and said it could only be imputed to their own neglect, and not to any precipitancy on the part of the friends of the bill. Mr. G. noticed several objections which had been offered, and said, if nothing more important could be offered, he thought it would be unjustifiable in the House to go into a committee.

Mr. MADISON observed, that at this moment it was not of importance to determine how it has happened that the objections which several gentlemen now say they have to offer against the bill were not made at the proper time. It is sufficient for them, if the candor of the House should lead them now to recommit the bill, that in a Committee of the Whole they may have an opportunity of offering their objections.

Mr. AMES replied to Mr. MADISON. He said, he did not conceive that the appeal now made to the candor of the House was in point. The gentlemen who object to the bill had an opportunity to offer their objections; the customary forms have been attended to; and the whole question for the recommitment turns on the force of the objections which are now offered to the general principles of the bill altogether. The candor of the House, he conceived, was entirely out of the question, and therefore not to be appealed to; but the justice due to their constituents in the proper discharge of the duty reposed in them. He said, it appeared to him absurd to go into Committee of the Whole to determine whether the bill is constitutional or not. If it is unconstitutional, that amounts to a rejection of it altogether.

Mr. MADISON thought there was the greatest propriety in discussing a constitutional question in Committee of the Whole.

Mr. STONE and Mr. GILES were in favor of the recommitment. They objected to the unconstitutionality of the bill, and to several of its particular clauses.

Mr. VINING said, he thought it was a subject of congratulation that the bill was in its present situation; it had happily passed to the third reading without that tedious discussion which bills usually receive. The subject has been a considerable time before the House, and gentlemen have had time to contemplate it. The bill is now in the stage to which gentlemen very usually reserve themselves to state their objections at large, and he hoped they would now do it. He was not perfectly satisfied as to the constitutional point. He therefore hoped gentlemen would state their objections, that those who are satisfied on that point may offer their reasons.

Mr. BOUDINOT stated the process of the business yesterday. He observed that he had then the honor to be in the chair. He had read the bill very distinctly and deliberately, with proper pauses; he thought that the fullest opportunity had been offered for gentlemen to come forward with their objections. He was opposed to the recommitment, as it would, he feared, issue in a defeat of the bill this session. He had one difficulty, however, respecting the unconstitutionality of the bill, which he hoped to have removed; and he hoped that a full discussion of its general principles would take place.

The motion for a recommitment was lost, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Bourne, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Contee, Gale, Grout, Giles, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Parker, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Tucker, White, and Williamson--23.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Rensselaer, Schureman, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Steele, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, and Wynkoop--34.

WEDNESDAY, February 2.

Bank of the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the bill sent from the Senate to incorporate the subscribers to the Bank of the United States.

The bill being on its passage,

Mr. MADISON began with a general review of the advantages and disadvantages of banks. The former he stated to consist in, first, the aid they afford to merchants, who can thereby push their mercantile operations further with the same capital. Second, The aids to merchants in paying punctually the customs. Third, Aids to the Government in complying punctually with its engagements, when deficiencies or delays happen in the revenue. Fourth, In diminishing usury. Fifth, In saving the wear of gold and silver kept in the vaults, and represented by notes. Sixth, In facilitating occasional remittances from different places where notes happen to circulate.

The effect of the proposed Bank, in raising the value of stock, he thought had been greatly overrated. It would no doubt raise that of the stock subscribed into the Bank; but could have little effect on stock in general, as the interest on it would remain the same, and the quantity taken out of the market would be replaced by bank stock.

The principal disadvantages consisted in, first, banishing the precious metals, by substituting another medium to perform their office. This effect was inevitable. It was admitted by the most enlightened patrons of banks, particularly by Smith on the Wealth of Nations. The common answer to the objection was, that the money banished was only an exchange for something equally valuable that would be imported in return. He admitted the weight of this observation in general; but doubted whether, in the present habits of this country, the returns would not be in articles of no permanent use to it.

Second. Exposing the public and individuals to all the evils of a run on the Bank, which would be particularly calamitous in so great a country as this, and might happen from various causes, as false rumors, bad management of the institution, an unfavorable balance of trade from short crops, &c.

It was proper to be considered, also, that the most important of the advantages would be better obtained by several banks, properly distributed, than by a single one. The aids to commerce could only be afforded at or very near the seat of the Bank. The same was true of aids to merchants in the payment of customs. Anticipations of the Government would also be most convenient at the different places where the interest of the debt was to be paid. The case in America was different from that in England: the interest there was all due at one place, and the genius of the Monarchy favored the concentration of wealth and influence at the metropolis.

He thought the plan liable to other objections. It did not make so good a bargain for the public as was due to its interests. The charter to the Bank of England had been granted for eleven years only, and was paid for by a loan to the Government on terms better than could be elsewhere got. Every renewal of the charter had, in like manner, been purchased; in some instances, at a very high price. The same had been done by the banks of Genoa, Naples, and other like banks of circulation. The plan was unequal to the public creditors; it gave an undue preference to the holders of a particular denomination of the public debt, and to those at and within reach of the seat of Government. If the subscriptions should be rapid, the distant holders of evidences of debt would be excluded altogether.

In making these remarks on the merits of the bill, he had reserved to himself the right to deny the authority of Congress to pass it. He had entertained this opinion from the date of the constitution. His impression might, perhaps, be the stronger, because he well recollected that a power to grant charters of incorporation had been proposed in the General Convention and rejected.

Is the power of establishing an incorporated bank among the powers vested by the constitution in the Legislature of the United States? This is the question to be examined.

After some general remarks on the limitations of all political power, he took notice of the peculiar manner in which the Federal Government is limited. It is not a general grant, out of which particular powers are excepted; it is a grant of particular powers only, leaving the general mass in other hands. So it had been understood by its friends and its foes, and so it was to be interpreted.

As preliminaries to a right interpretation, he laid down the following rules:

An interpretation that destroys the very characteristic of the Government cannot be just.

Where a meaning is clear, the consequences, whatever they may be, are to be admitted--where doubtful, it is fairly triable by its consequences.

In controverted cases, the meaning of the parties to the instrument, if to be collected by reasonable evidence, is a proper guide.

Contemporary and concurrent expositions are a reasonable evidence of the meaning of the parties.

In admitting or rejecting a constructive authority, not only the degree of its incidentality to an express authority is to be regarded, but the degree of its importance also; since on this will depend the probability or improbability of its being left to construction.

Reviewing the constitution with an eye to these positions, it was not possible to discover in it the power to incorporate a bank. The only clauses under which such a power could be pretended, are either:

1. The power to lay and collect taxes to pay the debts, and provide for the common defence and general welfare; or,

2. The power to borrow money on the credit of the United States; or,

3. The power to pass all laws necessary and proper to carry into execution those powers.

The bill did not come within the first power. It laid no tax to pay the debts, or provide for the general welfare. It laid no tax whatever. It was altogether foreign to the subject.

No argument could be drawn from the terms "common defence and general welfare." The power as to these general purposes was limited to acts laying taxes for them; and the general purposes themselves were limited and explained by the particular enumeration subjoined. To understand these terms in any sense that would justify the power in question, would give to Congress an unlimited power; would render nugatory the enumeration of particular powers; would supersede all the powers reserved to the State Governments. These terms are copied from the Articles of Confederation; had it ever been pretended that they were to be understood otherwise than as here explained?

It had been said, that "general welfare" meant cases in which a general power might be exercised by Congress, without interfering with the powers of the States; and that the establishment of a National Bank was of this sort. There were, he said, several answers to this novel doctrine.

1. The proposed Bank would interfere, so as indirectly to defeat a State Bank at the same place.

2. It would directly interfere with the rights of the States to prohibit as well as to establish Banks, and the circulation of bank notes. He mentioned a law in Virginia actually prohibiting the circulation of notes payable to bearer.

3. Interference with the power of the States was no constitutional criterion of the power of Congress. If the power was not given, Congress could not exercise it; if given, they might exercise it, although it should interfere with the laws, or even the constitution of the States.

4. If Congress could incorporate a bank merely because the act would leave the States free to establish banks also, any other incorporations might be made by Congress. They could incorporate companies of manufacturers, or companies for cutting canals, or even religious societies, leaving similar incorporations by the States, like State Banks, to themselves. Congress might even establish religious teachers in every parish, and pay them out of the Treasury of the United States, leaving other teachers unmolested in their functions. These inadmissible consequences condemned the controverted principle.

The case of the Bank established by the former Congress had been cited as a precedent. This was known, he said, to have been the child of necessity. It never could be justified by the regular powers of the Articles of Confederation. Congress betrayed a consciousness of this in recommending to the States to incorporate the Bank also. They did not attempt to protect the bank notes by penalties against counterfeiters. These were reserved wholly to the authority of the States.

The second clause to be examined is that which empowers Congress to borrow money.

Is this bill to borrow money? It does not borrow a shilling. Is there any fair construction by which the bill can be deemed an exercise of the power to borrow money? The obvious meaning of the power to borrow money, is that of accepting it from, and stipulating payment to those who are able and willing to lend.

To say that the power to borrow involves a power of creating the ability, where there may be the will, to lend, is not only establishing a dangerous principle, as will be immediately shown, but is as forced a construction as to say that it involves the power of compelling the will, where there may be the ability to lend.

The third clause is that which gives the power to pass all laws necessary and proper to execute the specified powers.

Whatever meaning this clause may have, none can be admitted, that would give an unlimited discretion to Congress.

Its meaning must, according to the natural and obvious force of the terms and the context, be limited to means necessary to the end, and incident to the nature of the specified powers.

The clause is in fact merely declaratory of what would have resulted by unavoidable implication, as the appropriate, and, as it were, technical means of executing those powers. In this sense it has been explained by the friends of the constitution, and ratified by the State conventions.

The essential characteristic of the Government, as composed of limited and enumerated powers, would be destroyed, if, instead of direct and incidental means, any means could be used, which, in the language of the preamble to the bill, "might be conceived to be conducive to the successful conducting of the finances, or might be conceived to tend to give facility to the obtaining of loans." He urged an attention to the diffuse and ductile terms which had been found requisite to cover the stretch of power contained in the bill. He compared them with the terms necessary and proper, used in the constitution, and asked whether it was possible to view the two descriptions as synonymous, or the one as a fair and safe commentary on the other.

If, proceeded he, Congress, by virtue of the power to borrow, can create the means of lending, and, in pursuance of these means, can incorporate a bank, they may do any thing whatever creative of like means.

The East India Company has been a lender to the British Government, as well as the Bank, and the South Sea Company is a greater creditor than either. Congress, then, may incorporate similar companies in the United States, and that too not under the idea of regulating trade, but under that of borrowing money.

Private capitals are the chief resources for loans to the British Government. Whatever then may be conceived to favor the accumulation of capitals may be done by Congress. They may incorporate manufacturers. They may give monopolies in every branch of domestic industry.

If, again, Congress, by virtue of the power to borrow money, can create the ability to lend, they may, by virtue of the power to levy money, create the ability to pay it. The ability to pay taxes depends on the general wealth of the society, and this, on the general prosperity of agriculture, manufactures, and commerce. Congress then may give bounties and make regulations on all of these objects.

The States have, it is allowed on all hands, a concurrent right to lay and collect taxes. This power is secured to them, not by its being expressly reserved, but by its not being ceded by the constitution. The reasons for the bill cannot be admitted, because they would invalidate that right; why may it not be conceived by Congress, that a uniform and exclusive imposition of taxes, would not less than the proposed Banks "be conducive to the successful conducting of the national finances, and tend to give facility to the obtaining of revenue, for the use of the Government?"

The doctrine of implication is always a tender one. The danger of it has been felt in other Governments. The delicacy was felt in the adoption of our own; the danger may also be felt if we do not keep close to our chartered authorities.

Mark the reasoning on which the validity of the bill depends! To borrow money is made the end, and the accumulation of capitals implied as the means. The accumulation of capitals is then the end, and a bank implied as the means. The bank is then the end, and a charter of incorporation, a monopoly, capital punishments, &c., implied as the means.

If implications thus remote and thus multiplied, can be linked together, a chain may be formed that will reach every object of legislation, every object within the whole compass of political economy.

The latitude of interpretation required by the bill is condemned by the rule furnished by the constitution itself.

Congress have power "to regulate the value of money;" yet it is expressly added, not left to be implied, that counterfeiters may be punished.

They have the power "to declare war," to which armies are more incident than incorporated banks to borrowing; yet the power "to raise and support armies" is expressly added; and to this again, the express power "to make rules and regulations for the government of armies;" a like remark is applicable to the powers as to the navy.

The regulation and calling out of the militia are more appertinent to war than the proposed Bank to borrowing; yet the former is not left to construction.

The very power to borrow money is a less remote implication from the power of war, than an incorporated monopoly bank from the power of borrowing; yet, the power to borrow is not left to implication.

It is not pretended that every insertion or omission in the constitution is the effect of systematic attention. This is not the character of any human work, particularly the work of a body of men. The examples cited, with others that might be added, sufficiently inculcate, nevertheless, a rule of interpretation very different from that on which the bill rests. They condemn the exercise of any power, particularly a great and important power, which is not evidently and necessarily involved in an express power.

It cannot be denied that the power proposed to be exercised is an important power.

As a charter of incorporation, the bill creates an artificial person, previously not existing in law. It confers important civil rights and attributes which could not otherwise be claimed. It is, though not precisely similar, at least equivalent, to the naturalization of an alien, by which certain new civil characters are acquired by him. Would Congress have had the power to naturalize, if it had not been expressly given?

In the power to make by-laws, the bill delegated a sort of Legislative power, which is unquestionably an act of a high and important nature. He took notice of the only restraint on the by-laws, that they were not to be contrary to the law and the constitution of the Bank, and asked what law was intended; if the law of the United States, the scantiness of their code would give a power never before given to a corporation, and obnoxious to the States, whose laws would then be superseded, not only by the laws of Congress, but by the by-laws of a corporation within their own jurisdiction. If the law intended was the law of the State, then the State might make laws that would destroy an institution of the United States.

The bill gives a power to purchase and hold lands; Congress themselves could not purchase lands within a State "without the consent of its Legislature." How could they delegate a power to others which they did not possess themselves?

It takes from our successors who have equal rights with ourselves, and with the aid of experience will be more capable of deciding on the subject, an opportunity of exercising that right for an immoderate term.

It takes from our constituents the opportunity of deliberating on the untried measure, although their hands are also to be tied by it for the same term.

It involves a monopoly, which affects the equal rights of every citizen.

It leads to a penal regulation, perhaps capital punishments, one of the most solemn acts of sovereign authority.

From this view of the power of incorporation exercised in the bill, it could never be deemed an accessory or subaltern power, to be deduced by implication as a means of executing another power; it was in its nature a distinct, an independent and substantive prerogative, which not being enumerated in the constitution, could never have been meant to be included in it, and not being included could never be rightfully exercised.

He here adverted to a distinction, which he said had not been sufficiently kept in view, between a power necessary and proper for the Government or Union, and a power necessary and proper for executing the enumerated powers. In the latter case, the powers included in the enumerated powers were not expressed, but to be drawn from the nature of each. In the former, the powers composing the Government were expressly enumerated. This constituted the peculiar nature of the Government; no power, therefore, not enumerated could be inferred from the general nature of Government. Had the power of making treaties, for example, been omitted, however necessary it might have been, the defect could only have been lamented, or supplied by an amendment of the constitution.

But the proposed Bank could not even be called necessary to the Government: at most it could be but convenient. Its uses to the Government could be supplied by keeping the taxes a little in advance; by loans from individuals; by the other banks, over which the Government would have equal command; nay greater, as it might grant or refuse to these the privilege (a free and irrevocable gift to the proposed Bank) of using their notes in the Federal revenue.

He proceeded next to the contemporary expositions given to the constitution.

The defence against the charge founded on the want of a bill of rights presupposed, he said, that the powers not given were retained; and that those given were not to be extended by remote implications. On any other supposition, the power of Congress to abridge the freedom of the press, or the rights of conscience, &c., could not have been disproved.

The explanations in the State Conventions all turned on the same fundamental principle, and on the principle that the terms necessary and proper gave no additional powers to those enumerated.

[Here he read sundry passages from the Debates of the Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina Conventions, showing the grounds on which the constitution had been vindicated by its principal advocates, against a dangerous latitude of its powers, charged on it by its opponents.]

He did not undertake to vouch for the accuracy or authenticity of the publications which he quoted. He thought it probable that the sentiments delivered might, in many instances, have been mistaken, or imperfectly noted; but the complexion of the whole, with what he himself and many others must recollect, fully justified the use he had made of them.

The explanatory declarations and amendments accompanying the ratifications of the several States formed a striking evidence, wearing the same complexion. He referred those who might doubt on the subject, to the several acts of ratification.

The explanatory amendments proposed by Congress themselves, at least, would be good authority with them; all these renunciations of power proceeded on a rule of construction, excluding the latitude now contended for. These explanations were the more to be respected, as they had not only been proposed by Congress, but ratified by nearly three-fourths of the States. He read several of the articles proposed, remarking particularly on the 11th and 12th; the former, as guarding against a latitude of interpretation; the latter, as excluding every source of power not within the constitution itself.

With all this evidence of the sense in which the constitution was understood and adopted, will it not be said, if the bill should pass, that its adoption was brought about by one set of arguments, and that it is now administered under the influence of another set? and this reproach will have the keener sting, because it is applicable to so many individuals concerned in both the adoption and administration.

In fine, if the power were in the constitution, the immediate exercise of it cannot be essential; if not there, the exercise of it involves the guilt of usurpation, and establishes a precedent of interpretation levelling all the barriers which limit the powers of the General Government, and protect those of the State Governments. If the point be doubtful only, respect for ourselves, who ought to shun the appearance of precipitancy and ambition; respect for our successors, who ought not lightly to be deprived of the opportunity of exercising the rights of legislation; respect for our constituents, who have had no opportunity of making known their sentiments, and who are themselves to be bound down to the measure for so long a period; all these considerations require that the irrevocable decision should at least be suspended until another session.

It appeared on the whole, he concluded, that the power exercised by the bill was condemned by the silence of the constitution; was condemned by the rule of interpretation arising out of the constitution; was condemned by its tendency to destroy the main characteristic of the constitution; was condemned by the expositions of the friends of the constitution, whilst depending before the public; was condemned by the apparent intention of the parties which ratified the constitution; was condemned by the explanatory amendments proposed by Congress themselves to the constitution; and he hoped it would receive its final condemnation by the vote of this House.

THURSDAY, February 3.

Bank of the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the bill sent from the Senate, to incorporate the subscribers to the Bank of the United States.

A motion was made by Mr. WILLIAMSON to recommit the bill, for the purpose of amending the first section by prolonging the time for receiving subscriptions from October to April; this motion occasioned some debate, and was determined in the negative; the yeas and nays being as follow:

YEAS.--Messrs. Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Contee, Gale, Giles, Grout, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Sevier, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Steele, Stone, Tucker, White, and Williamson--21.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Bourne, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Griffin, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Parker, Partridge, Rensselaer, Schureman, Scott, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Smith, (of Maryland,) Sylvester, Sinnickson, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, and Wynkoop--38.

Mr. AMES.--Little doubt remains with respect to the utility of banks. It seems to be conceded within doors and without, that a public bank would be useful to trade, that it is almost essential to revenue, and that it is little short of indispensably necessary in times of public emergency. In countries whose forms of government left them free to choose, this institution has been adopted of choice, and in times of national danger and calamity, it has afforded such aid to Government as to make it appear, in the eyes of the people, a necessary means of self-preservation. The subject, however intricate in its nature, is at last cleared from obscurity. It would not be difficult to establish its principles, and to deduce from its theory such consequences as would vindicate the policy of the measure. But why should we lose time to examine the theory when it is in our power to resort to experience? After being tried by that test, the world has agreed in pronouncing the institution excellent. This new capital will invigorate trade and manufactures with new energy. It will furnish a medium for the collection of the revenues; and if Government should be pressed by a sudden necessity, it will afford seasonable and effectual aid. With all these and many other pretensions, if it was now a question whether Congress should be vested with the power of establishing a bank, I trust that this House and all America would assent to the affirmative.

This, however, is not a question of expediency, but of duty. We are not at liberty to examine which of several modes of acting is entitled to the preference. But we are solemnly warned against acting at all. We are told that the constitution will not authorize Congress to incorporate the subscribers to the bank. Let us examine the constitution, and if that forbids our proceeding, we must reject the bill; though we shall do it with deep regret that such an opportunity to serve our country must be suffered to escape for the want of a constitutional power to improve it.

The gentleman from Virginia considers the opposers of the bill as suffering disadvantage, because it was not debated as bills usually are in the Committee of the Whole. He has prepared us to pronounce a eulogium upon his consistency by informing us that he voted in the old Congress against the Bank of North America, on the ground of his present objection to the constitutionality. He has told us that the meaning of the constitution is to be interpreted by contemporaneous testimony. He was a member of the Convention which formed it, and of course his opinion is entitled to peculiar weight. While we respect his former conduct, and admire the felicity of his situation, we cannot think he sustains disadvantage in the debate. Besides, he must have been prepared with objections to the constitutionality, because he tells us they are of long standing, and had grown into a settled habit of thinking. Why, then, did he suffer the bill to pass the committee in silence? The friends of the bill have more cause to complain of disadvantage; for while he has had time to prepare his objections, they are obliged to reply to them without premeditation.

In making this reply I am to perform a task for which my own mind has not admonished me to prepare. I never suspected that the objections I have heard stated had existence; I consider them as discoveries; and had not the acute penetration of that gentleman brought them to light, I am sure that my own understanding would never have suggested them.

It seems strange, too, that in our enlightened country the public should have been involved in equal blindness. While the exercise of even the lawful powers of Government is disputed, and a jealous eye is fixed on its proceedings, not a whisper has been heard against its authority to establish a bank. Still, however unseasonably, the old alarm of public discontent is sounded in our ears.

Two questions occur; may Congress exercise any powers which are not expressly given in the constitution, but may be deduced by a reasonable construction of that instrument? And, secondly, will such a construction warrant the establishment of the Bank?

The doctrine that powers may be implied which are not expressly vested in Congress has long been a bugbear to a great many worthy persons. They apprehend that Congress, by putting constructions upon the constitution, will govern by its own arbitrary discretion; and therefore that it ought to be bound to exercise the powers expressly given, and those only.

If Congress may not make laws conformably to the powers plainly implied, though not expressed in the frame of Government, it is rather late in the day to adopt it as a principle of conduct. A great part of our two years' labor is lost, and worse than lost to the public, for we have scarcely made a law in which we have not exercised our discretion with regard to the true intent of the constitution. Any words but those used in that instrument will be liable to a different interpretation. We may regulate trade; therefore we have taxed ships, erected light-houses, made laws to govern seamen, &c., because we say that they are the incidents to that power. The most familiar and undisputed acts of legislation will show that we have adopted it as a safe rule of action, to legislate beyond the letter of the constitution.

He proceeded to enforce this idea by several considerations, and illustrated it by various examples. He said, that the ingenuity of man was unequal to providing, especially beforehand, for all the contingencies that would happen. The constitution contains the principles which are to govern in making laws; but every law requires an application of the rule to the case in question. We may err in applying it; but we are to exercise our judgments, and on every occasion to decide according to an honest conviction of its true meaning.

The danger of implied power does not arise from its assuming a new principle; we have not only practised it often, but we can scarcely proceed without it; nor does the danger proceed so much from the extent of the power as from its uncertainty. While the opposers of the Bank exclaim against the exercise of this power by Congress, do they mark out the limits of the power which they will leave to us, with more certainty than is done by the advocates of the Bank? Their rules of interpretation by contemporaneous testimony, the debates of conventions, and the doctrine of substantive and auxiliary powers, will be found as obscure, and of course as formidable, as that which they condemn; they only set up one construction against another.

The powers of Congress are disputed. We are obliged to decide the question according to truth. The negative, if false, is less safe than the affirmative, if true. Why, then, shall we be told that the negative is the safe side? Not exercising the powers we have, may be as pernicious as usurping those we have not. If the power to raise armies had not been expressed in the enumeration of the powers of Congress, it would be implied from other parts of the constitution. Suppose, however, that it were omitted, and our country invaded, would a decision in Congress against raising armies be safer than the affirmative? The blood of our citizens would be shed, and shed unavenged. He thought, therefore, that there was too much prepossession with some against the Bank, and that the debate ought to be considered more impartially, as the negative was neither more safe, certain, nor conformable to our duty than the other side of the question. After all, the proof of the affirmative imposed a sufficient burden, as it is easier to raise objections than to remove them. Would any one doubt that Congress may lend money, that they may buy their debt in the market, or redeem their captives from Algiers? Yet no such power is expressly given, though it is irresistibly implied.

If, therefore, some interpretation of the constitution must be indulged, by what rules is it to be governed? The great end of every association of persons or States is to effect the end of its institution. The matter in debate affords a good illustration: a corporation, as soon as it is created, has certain powers, or qualities, tacitly annexed to it, which tend to promote the end for which it was formed; such as, for example, its individuality, its power to sue and be sued, and the perpetual succession of persons. Government is itself the highest kind of corporation; and from the instant of its formation, it has tacitly annexed to its being, various powers which the individuals who framed it did not separately possess, but which are essential to its effecting the purposes for which it was framed; to declare, in detail, every thing that Government may do could not be performed, and has never been attempted. It would be endless, useless, and dangerous; exceptions of what it may not do are shorter and safer.

Congress may do what is necessary to the end for which the constitution was adopted, provided it is not repugnant to the natural rights of man, or to those which they have expressly reserved to themselves, or to the powers which are assigned to the States. This rule of interpretation seems to be safe, and not a very uncertain one, independently of the constitution itself. By that instrument certain powers are specially delegated, together with all powers necessary or proper to carry them into execution. That construction may be maintained to be a safe one which promotes the good of society, and the ends for which the Government was adopted, without impairing the rights of any man, or the powers of any State.

This, he said, was remarkably true of the Bank; no man could have cause to complain of it; the bills would not be forced upon any one. It is of the first utility to trade. Indeed, the intercourse from State to State can never be on a good footing without a bank, whose paper will circulate more extensively than that of any State bank. Whether the power to regulate trade from State to State will involve that of regulating inland bills of exchange and bank paper, as the instruments of the trade, and incident to the power, he would not pause to examine. This is an injury and wrong which violates the right of another. As the bank is founded on the free choice of those who make use of it, and is highly useful to the people and to Government, a liberal construction is natural and safe. This circumstance creates a presumption in favor of its conformity to the constitution. This presumption is enforced by the necessity of a bank to other governments. The most orderly governments in Europe have banks. They are considered as indispensably necessary; these examples are not to be supposed to have been unnoticed. We are to pay the interest of our debt in thirteen places. Is it possible to transport the revenue from one end of the continent to the other? Nay, a week before the quarter's interest becomes due, transfers will be made which will require double the sum in Boston which was expected. To guard against this danger, an extra sum must be deposited at the different loan offices. This extra sum is not to be had; our revenue is barely equal to the interest due. This imposes an absolute necessity upon the Government to make use of a bank. The answer is, that the State banks will supply this aid. This is risking a good deal to the argument against the Bank; for will they admit the necessity, and yet deny to the Government the lawful and only adequate means for providing for it? Ten of the States have no banks; those who have may abolish theirs, and suffer their charters to expire. But the State banks are insufficient to the purpose; their paper has not a sufficient circulation; of course their capitals are small. Congress is allowed to have complete legislative power over its own finances; and yet without the courtesy of the States it cannot be exercised. This seems to be inconsistent.

If a war should suddenly break out, how is Congress to provide for it? Perhaps Congress would not be sitting; great expenses would be incurred; and they must be instantly provided for. How is this to be done? By taxes? And will the enemy wait till they can be collected? By loans at home? Our citizens would employ their money in war speculations, and they are not individually in a condition to lend a sufficient sum in specie. Or shall we send across the sea for loans? The dispute between England and Spain furnishes an example; the aid of their banks for several millions was prompt and effectual. Or, will you say that Congress might issue paper money? That power, ruinous and fallacious as it is, is deduced from implication, for it is not expressly given. A bank only can afford the necessary aid in time of sudden emergency. If we have not the power to establish it, our social compact is incomplete, we want the means of self-preservation.

I shall, perhaps, be told that necessity is the tyrant's plea. I answer that it is a miserable one when it is urged to palliate the violation of private right. Who suffers by this use of our authority? Not the States, for they are not warranted to establish a National Bank; not individuals, for they will be assisted in trade, and defended from danger by it.

Having endeavored to enforce his argument, by noticing the uses of banks to trade, to revenue, to credit, and, in cases of exigency, he adverted to the authority of our own precedents. Our right to govern the Western Territory is not disputed. It is a power which no State can exercise; it must be exercised, and therefore it resides in Congress. But how does Congress get this power? It is not expressly given in the constitution, but is derived either from the nature of the case, or by implication from the power to regulate the property of the United States. If the power flows from the nature and necessity of the case, it may be demanded, is the renot equal authority for the Bank? If it is derived from the power of Congress to regulate the territory and other property of the United States, and to make all needful rules and regulations concerning it, and for the disposal of it, a strict construction would restrain Congress merely to the management and disposal of property, and of its own property; yet it is plain that more is intended. Congress has accordingly made rules, not only for governing its own property, but the property of the persons residing there. It has made rules which have no relation to property at all--for punishing crimes. In short, it exercises all power in that territory. Nay, it has exercised this very power of creating a corporation. The government of that territory is a corporation; and who will deny that Congress may lawfully establish a bank beyond the Ohio? It is fair to reason by analogy from a power which is unquestionable, to one which is the subject of debate.

He then asked, whether it appeared, on this view of the subject, that the establishment of a National Bank would be a violent misinterpretation of the constitution? He did not contend for an arbitrary, unlimited discretion in the Government to do every thing. He took occasion to protest against such a misconception of his argument. He had noticed the great marks by which the construction of the constitution, he conceived, must be guided and limited; and these, if not absolutely certain, were very far from being arbitrary or unsafe. It is for the House, to judge whether the construction which denies the power of Congress is more definite and safe.

In proving that Congress may exercise powers which are not expressly granted by the constitution, he had endeavored to establish such rules of interpretation, and had illustrated his ideas by such observations as would anticipate, in a considerable degree, the application of his principles to the point in question. Before he proceeded to the construction of the clauses of the constitution which apply to the argument, lie observed that it would be proper to notice the qualities of a corporation, in order to take a more exact view of the controversy.

He adverted to the individuality and the perpetuity of a corporation, and that the property of the individuals should not be liable for the debts of the bank or company. These qualities are not more useful to the corporation than conformable to reason; but Government, it is said, cannot create these qualities. This is the marrow of the argument; for Congress may set up a bank of its own, to be managed as public property, to issue notes which shall be received in all payments at the Treasury, which shall be exchangeable into specie on demand, and which it shall be death to counterfeit. Such a bank would be less safe and useful than one under the direction of private persons; yet the power to establish it is indisputable. If Congress has the authority to do this business badly, the question returns, whether the powers of a corporation, which are essential to its being well done, may be annexed as incident to it. The Bank of New York is not a corporation, yet its notes have credit. Congress may agree with that bank, or with a company of merchants, to take their notes, and to cause all payments to pass through their coffers. Every thing that Government requires, and the bank will perform, may be lawfully done without giving them corporate powers; but to do this well, safely, and extensively, those powers are indispensable. This seems to bring the debate within a very narrow compass.

This led him to consider whether the corporate powers are incidental to those which Congress may exercise by the constitution.

He entered into a discussion of the construction of that clause which empowers Congress to regulate the territory and other property of the United States. The United States may hold property; may dispose of it; they may hold it in partnership; they may regulate the terms of the partnership. One condition may be, that the common stock only shall be liable for the debts of the partnership, and that any purchaser of a share shall become a partner. These are the chief qualities of a corporation. It seems that Congress, having power to make all needful rules and regulations for the property of the United States, may establish a corporation to manage it: without which we have seen that the regulations cannot be either safe or useful; the United States will be the proprietor of one-tenth of the bank stock.

Congress may exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever over the ten miles square, and the places ceded by the States for arsenals, light-houses, docks, &c. Of course it may establish a bank in those places with corporate powers. The bill has not restrained the bank to this city; and if it had, the dispute would lose a part of its solemnity. If, instead of principles, it concerns only places, what objection is there to the constitutional authority of Congress to fix the Bank at Sandy Hook, or Reedy Island, where we have light-houses, and a right of exclusive legislation? A bank established there, or in the district located by law on the Potomac for the seat of Government, could send its paper all over the Union; it is true that the places are not the most proper for a bank; but the authority to establish it in them overthrows the argument which is deduced from the definite nature of the powers vested in Congress, and the dangerous tendency of the proposed construction of them.

The preamble of the constitution warrants this remark, that a bank is not repugnant to the spirit and essential objects of that instrument.

He then considered the power to borrow money. He said it was natural to understand that authority as it was actually exercised in Europe; which is, to borrow of the bank. He observed, the power to borrow was of narrow use without the institution of a bank; and in the most dangerous crisis of affairs would be a dead letter.

After noticing the power to lay and collect taxes, he adverted to the sweeping clause, as it is usually called, which empowers Congress to exercise all powers necessary and proper to carry the enumerated powers into execution. He did not pretend that it gives any new powers; but it establishes the doctrine of implied powers. He then demanded whether the power to incorporate a bank is not fairly relative, and a necessary incident to the entire powers to regulate trade and revenue, and to provide for the public credit and defence.

He entered into a particular answer to several objections, and after recapitulating his argument, he concluded with observing that we had felt the disadvantages of the Confederation. We adopted the constitution, expecting to place the national affairs under a Federal head; this is a power which Congress can only exercise. We may reason away the whole constitution. All nations have their times of adversity and danger; the neglect of providing against them in season may be the cause of ruining the country.

FRIDAY, February 4.

Bank of the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the bill for incorporating the Bank of the United States.

The question being on the passage of the bill,

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he would endeavor not to fatigue the patience of the House in the observations he should make on the important subject now under consideration. Without entering into the discussion on a scale so extensive as had been indulged by some gentlemen, he would dwell only on a few important principles, and such consequences as were conclusively deducible from them, which had made a strong impression on his own mind. The opposition to the bill had called in question the constitutional powers of Congress to establish the proposed corporation, and the utility of banks, neither of which till within a few days did he suppose was doubted by any intelligent man in America; and had charged the present system with holding out unequal terms against the Government to those who should subscribe to the proposed stock.

With regard to the question of constitutionality, much had been said which, in his opinion, had not an intimate relation to the subject now before the House. We have with great earnestness been warned of the danger of grasping power by construction and implication; and this warning has been given in very animated language by the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON.) I do not wish to deprive that member of the honor of consistency; but I well remember the time when the energy of his reasoning impressed on the minds of the majority of this House a conviction that the power of removal from office, holden at pleasure, was, by construction and implication, vested by the constitution in the President; for there could be no pretence that it is expressly granted to him.

He would only observe, in answer to every thing which had been said of the danger of extending construction and implication, that the whole business of legislation was a practical construction of the powers of the Legislature; and that probably no instrument for the delegation of power could be drawn with such precision and accuracy as to leave nothing to necessary implication. That all the different Legislatures in the United States had, and this, in his opinion, indispensably must construe the powers which had been granted to them, and they must assume such auxiliary powers as are necessarily implied in those which are expressly granted. In doing which, it was no doubt their duty to be careful not to exceed those limits to which it was intended they should be restricted. By any other limitation the Government would be so shackled that it would be incapable of producing any of the effects which were intended by its institution.

He observed, that on almost all the great and important measures which come under the deliberation of Congress there were immense difficulties to be surmounted. If we attempt, said he, to proceed in one direction, our ears are assailed with the exclamation of "the constitution is in danger!" if we attempt to attain our objects by pursuing a different course, we are told the pass is guarded by the stern spirit of democracy. Did I concur with gentlemen in opinion on this subject, I should think it my duty to go home to my constituents, and honestly declare to them that by their jealousy of power they had so restrained the operations of the Government that we had not the means of effecting any of the great purposes for which the constitution was designed, without attempting, what perhaps would be found impracticable, to fix by general rules the nice point within which Congress would be authorized to assume powers by construction and implication, and beyond which they may be justly considered as usurpers.

He wished gentlemen to reflect what effect a single principle, universally acknowledged, would have in determining the question now under consideration. It is universally agreed that wherever a power is delegated for express purposes, all the known and usual means for the attainment of the objects expressed are conceded also. That to decide what influence this acknowledged principle would have on the subject before the House, it would be necessary to reflect on the powers with which Congress are expressly invested. He then repeated that Congress was authorized to lay and collect taxes, to borrow money on the credit of the United States, to raise and support armies, provide and maintain navies, to regulate foreign and domestic trade, and to make all laws necessary and proper to carry these and the other enumerated powers into effect. They were, in fine, intrusted with the exercise of all those powers which the people of America thought necessary to secure their fame and happiness against the attacks of internal violence and external invasion; and in the exercise of those powers, the Legislature was authorized, agreeably to the principle which he had mentioned, to employ all the known and usual means necessary and proper to effectuate the ends which are expressed. It might be of use to determine with precision what was the meaning of the words necessary and proper--they did not restrict the power of the Legislature to enacting such laws only as are indispensable. Such a construction would be infinitely too narrow and limited; and, to apply the meaning strictly, it would prove, perhaps, that all the laws which had been passed were unconstitutional; for few, if any of them, could be proved indispensable to the existence of the Government. The conduct of Congress had a construction on those words more rational and consistent with common sense and the purposes for which the Government was instituted; which he conceived to be that the laws should be established on such principles, and such an agency in the known and usual means employed in the execution of them, as to effect the ends expressed in the constitution with the greatest possible degree of public utility.

If banks were among the known and usual means to effectuate or facilitate the ends which had been mentioned, to enable the Government, with the greatest ease and least burden to the people, to collect taxes, borrow money, regulate commerce, raise and support armies, provide and maintain fleets, he thought the argument irrefragable and conclusive to prove the constitutionality of the bill. Pursuing further the same idea, he asked for what purposes were banks instituted and patronized by Governments which were unrestricted by constitutional limitations? Were they not employed as the means and the most useful engines to facilitate the collection of taxes, borrowing money, and the other enumerated powers? Besides, he said, it was to be observed that the constitution had expressly declared the ends of legislation; but in almost every instance had left the means to the honest and sober discretion of the Legislature. From the nature of things this must ever be the case; for otherwise the constitution must contain not only all the necessary laws under the existing circumstances of the community, but also a code so extensive as to adapt itself to all future possible contingencies. By our constitution, Congress has not only the power to lay and collect taxes, but to do every thing subordinate to that end; the objects, the means, the instruments, and the purposes, are left to the honest and sober discretion of the Legislature. The power of borrowing money was expressly granted; but all the known and usual means to that end were left in silence. The same observations might with truth be made respecting the other delegated powers. The great ends to be obtained as means to effectuate the ultimate end--the public good and general welfare--are capable, under general terms, of constitutional specification; but the subordinate means are so numerous, and capable of such infinite variation, as to render an enumeration impracticable, and must therefore be left to construction and necessary implication. He said, on this ground, he was willing to leave the general argument; it was simple, intelligible, and he hoped would be thought conclusive.

He said the constitutionality had been attacked from another quarter. It was said, we could not give commercial advantages to one port above another. The constitutional provision which had been quoted was undoubtedly intended to prevent a partial regulation of commerce; if extended to the case under consideration, it would much more strongly prove that Congress ought not to reside in any commercial city; for he verily believed that the commercial advantages of Philadelphia were incomparably greater from that residence than they could be supposed from the institution of a National Bank. Indeed, it was his opinion that, considering that this city had a bank, the capital of which was adequate to all her commercial exigencies; that she could enlarge that capital as her necessity should require; and that her bank will, if this bill should be rejected, receive the benefit of national operations, the measure will not advance her individual interest.

With regard to the utility of banks, he observed that he would not attempt to display a knowledge of the subject by repeating all he had read and heard in relation to it, nor fatigue the House by a detail of his own reflections and reasoning upon it; the causes were unnecessary to be explained; the effects had been such in all countries where banks had been instituted, as to produce a unanimous opinion that they were alike useful for all the great purposes of Government, and to promote the general happiness of the people. Nor was our own experience wanting to the same purpose. At a time when our public resources were almost annihilated, our credit prostrate, our Government imbecile, and its patronage inconsiderable, a bank of small capital was among the most operative causes which produced that first dawn that ultimately terminated in meridian splendor by the establishment of peace, independence, and freedom. There were two circumstances which he would take the liberty to mention, which would render banks of more importance in this country than in any other country where they are at present in use: the first, the commercial enterprise of our merchants compared with the smallness of their capitals, which, as we had no large manufacturing capitals, whereby the precious metals could be retained in circulation, would frequently, by their exportation, greatly distress the people; the other originated from a measure of the Government. Congress, from a laudable intention of accommodating their constituents, instituted Treasuries in all the States; in some of these there would be, in the ordinary course of events, a deficiency, and in others a redundancy. To keep them in equilibrium by the transportation of the precious metals, or by the purchase of bills in the market, would be not only inconvenient and expensive, but would keep out of circulation a considerable part of the medium of the country.

Gentlemen had been pleased to consider the proposed terms as giving an undue advantage to the stockholders. He would leave this part of the subject to gentlemen who better understood it; only observing, that as Government must rely principally on merchants to obtain the proposed stock, it would be necessary to afford to them sufficient motives to withdraw from their commercial pursuits a part of their capitals.

He would attempt an answer to some of those desultory objections which had been made, and in doing this, he would omit to answer such as had been, in his opinion, already refuted. He observed, that it had been said that granting charters of incorporation was a high prerogative of Government. He supposed it was not intended that it was, in the nature of things, too transcendent a power to be exercised by a National Government, but that the exercise of it should only be in consequence of express delegation. Let this objection be compared with the conduct of Congress on another subject, in all respects at least as important. There is not, by the constitution, any power expressly delegated to mortgage our revenues, and yet, without any question being made on the constitutionality of the measure, we have mortgaged them to an immense amount. From whence, he asked, do we acquire the authority to exercise this power? Not from express grants, but being empowered to borrow money on the credit of the United States, we have very properly considered the pledging funds as among the known and usual means necessary and proper to be employed for the attainment of the end expressly delegated.

It has been said that the bill authorized the stockholders to purchase real estate. He considered the provision in the bill in that regard, not a grant, but a limitation of power. Any man, or body of men, might, by the existing laws, purchase, in their own private capacities, real estate to any amount. This right was limited as it respected the proposed corporation.

It is said there are banks already, and therefore the proposed incorporation is unnecessary. To this he answered, that if the Government should agree to receive all its demands in the paper of the existing banks, it would give to them every advantage which, in the opinion of gentlemen, renders the present system objectionable, without stipulating for any equivalent to the Government. But are, he asked, gentlemen serious in these observations? Do they believe the capitals of those banks adequate to the exigencies of the nation? Do they believe that those banks possess any powers by which they can give a projectile force to their paper, so as to extend its circulation throughout the United States? Or do they really wish to have the Government repose itself on institutions with which they have no intimate connection, and over which they have no control?

Mr. S. concluded by observing he was very confident a majority of the House could never be induced to believe that it was the intention of the constitution to deprive the Legislature of one of the most important and necessary means of executing the powers expressly delegated.

Mr. LAWRENCE.--The advocates of this measure stand in an unfortunate situation; for being those who in general advocate national measures, they are charged with designs to extend the powers of the Government unduly. He, however, consoled himself with a conscious attachment to the constitution, and with the reflection that their conduct received the approbation of their constituents. If the present be contrasted with the former circumstances of this country, he doubted not the measures of this Government would continue to receive the approbation of the people of the United States.

The silence of the people on the subject now before the House is strongly presumptive that the measure of the Bank is not considered by them as unconstitutional. He then endeavored to show the constitutionality of the bank system. It must be conceded that there is nothing in the constitution that is expressly against it, and therefore we ought not to deduce a prohibition by construction; he adverted to the amendment proposed by Congress to the constitution, which says, "powers not delegated are retained;" here, said he, to prove that the Bank is unconstitutional, the constructive interpretation so much objected against is recurred to.

The great objects of this Government are contained in the context of the constitution. He recapitulated those objects, and inferred that every power necessary to secure these must necessarily follow; for as to the great objects for which this Government was instituted, it is as full and complete in all its parts as any system that could be devised; a full, uncontrollable power to regulate the fiscal concerns of this Union, is a primary consideration in this Government, and from hence it clearly follows that it must possess the power to make every possible arrangement conducive to that great object.

He then adverted to the late Confederation, and pointed out its defects and incompetency; and hence the old Congress called on the States to enact certain laws which they had not power to enact; from hence he inferred, that as the late Confederation could not pass those laws, and to capacitate the Government of the United States, and form a more perfect union, the constitution under which we now act was formed. To suppose that this Government does not possess the powers for which the constitution was adopted, involves the grossest absurdity.

The deviation from charters, and the infringement of parchment rights, which had been justified on the principle of necessity by the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) he said had been made on different principles from those now mentioned; the necessity, he contended, did not at the time exist; the old Congress exercised the power, as they thought, by a fair construction of the Confederation.

On constructions, he observed, it was to be lamented that they should ever be necessary; but they had been made; he instanced the power of removability, which had been an act of the three branches, and has not been complained of. It was at least as important a one as the present.

But the construction now proposed, he contended, was an easy and natural construction. Recurring to the collection law, he observed, that it was by construction that the receipts are ordered to be made in gold and silver.

With respect to creating a mass of capital, he supposed just and upright national measures would create a will to form this capital.

Adverting to the idea that Congress has not the power to establish companies with exclusive privileges, he observed, that by the amendments proposed by New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and New York, it plainly appears that these States considered that Congress does possess the power to establish such companies.

The constitution vests Congress with power to dispose of certain property in lands, and to make all useful rules and regulations for that purpose; can its power be less over one species of its own property than over another?

With respect to giving preference to one State over another, he observed, that ten years hence the seat of Government is to be on the Potomac, and wherever the Government is finally settled, the place will enjoy superior advantages; but still the Government must go thither, and the places not enjoying those advantages must be satisfied.

It is said we must not pass a problematical bill, which is liable to a supervision by the Judges of the Supreme Court; but he conceived there was no force in this, as those judges are invested by the Constitution with a power to pass their judgment on all laws that may be passed.

It is said that this law may interfere with the State Governments; but this may or may not be the case; and in all interference of the kind the particular interest of a State must give way to the general interest.

With respect to the corporation possessing the power of passing laws, this, he observed, is a power incidental to all corporations; and in the instance of the Western Territory, Congress have exercised the power of instituting corporations or bodies politic, to the greatest possible extent.

He defended the right of Congress to purchase and possess property, and quoted a passage in the Constitution to show that they possess this right.

He then touched on the expediency of banks, and of that proposed in particular. The advantages generally derived from these institutions, he believed, applied peculiarly to this country. He noticed the objection from banks banishing the specie; he said the surplus only would be sent out of the country; but is it given away? No, sir, it is sent off for articles which are wanted, and which will enrich the country.

With respect to a run on the Bank, he mentioned the circumstances under which those runs on the British banks, which had been noticed, took place; and showed there was no parallel that would probably ever take place in this country.

For several particulars he showed that the objection which arose from the United States not having a good bargain by the system was not well founded. He then mentioned the peculiar advantages which the United States will enjoy over common subscribers.

The objection from banks being already established in the several States he obviated by stating the mischiefs which might arise from an ignorance of the situation of those banks; and concluded by some remarks on the inexpediency of the General Government having recourse to institutions of merely a local nature.

Mr. JACKSON said, that having been the person who brought forward the constitutional objection against the bill, he thought himself bound to notice the answers which had been offered to that objection. Newspaper authorities, said he, have been alluded to, and their silence on the subject considered as indicating the approbation of the people. He would meet the gentlemen on that ground; and, though he did not consider newspapers as an authority to be depended on, yet if opinions through that channel were to be regarded, he would refer the gentlemen to those of this city; the expediency and constitutionality of the bill have been called in question by the newspapers of this city.

The latitude contended for in constructing the constitution on this occasion he reprobated very fully. If the sweeping clause, as it is called, extends to vesting Congress with such powers, and necessary and proper means are an indispensable implication in the sense advanced by the advocates of the bill, we shall soon be in possession of all possible powers, and the charter under which we sit will be nothing but a name.

This bill will essentially interfere with the rights of the separate States, for it is not denied that they possess the power of instituting banks; but the proposed corporation will eclipse the Bank of North America, and contravene the interests of the individuals concerned in it.

He then noticed the several arguments drawn from the doctrine of implication; the right to incorporate a National Bank has been adduced from the power to raise armies; but he presumed it would not be contended that this is a bill to provide for the national defence. Nor could such a power, in his opinion, be derived from the right to borrow money. It has been asked what the United States could do with the surplus of their revenue without the convenience of a bank in which to deposit it with advantage? For his part, though he wished to anticipate pleasing occurrences, he did not look forward to the time when the General Government would have this superabundance at its disposal. The right of Congress to purchase and hold lands has been urged to prove that they can transfer this power; but the General Government is expressly restricted in the exercise of this power; the consent of the particular State to the purchase for particular purposes only is requisite; these purposes are designated, such as building light-houses, erecting arsenals, &c.

It has been said that banks may exist without a charter; but that this incorporation is necessary in order that it may have a hold on the Government. Mr. J. strongly reprobated this idea. He was astonished to hear such a declaration, and hoped that such ideas would prevent a majority of the House from passing a bill that would thus establish a perpetual monopoly; we have, said he, I believe, a perpetual debt; I hope we shall not have a perpetual corporation. What was it drove our forefathers to this country? Was it not the ecclesiastical corporations and perpetual monopolies of England and Scotland? Shall we suffer the same evils to exist in this country instead of taking every possible method to encourage the increase of emigrants to settle among us? For if we establish the precedent now before us, there is no saying where it will stop.

The power to regulate trade is said to involve this as a necessary means; but the powers consequent on this express power are specified, such as regulating light-houses, ships, harbors, &c. It has been said that Congress has borrowed money; this shows that there is no necessity of instituting any new bank, those already established having been found sufficient for the purpose. He denied the right of Congress to establish banks at the permanent seat of Government, or on those sandheaps mentioned yesterday; for if they should, they could not force the circulation of their paper one inch beyond the limits of those places. But it is said, if Congress can establish banks in those situations, the question becomes a question of place, and not of principle; from hence it is inferred that the power may be exercised in any other part of the United States. This appeared to him to involve a very dangerous construction of the powers vested in the General Government.

Adverting to the powers of Congress in respect to the finances of the Union, he observed that those powers did not warrant the adoption of whatever measures they thought proper. The constitution has restricted the exercise of those fiscal powers; Congress cannot lay a poll tax, nor impose duties on exports; yet these undoubtedly relate to the finances.

The power exercised in respect to the Western Territory, he observed, had reference to property already belonging to the United States; it does not refer to property to be purchased, nor does it authorize the purchase of any additional property; besides, the powers are express and definite, and the exercise of them in making needful rules and regulations in the government of that Territory does not interfere with the rights of any of the respective States.

Mr. J. denied the necessity of the proposed institution; and noticing the observation of Mr. AMES, that it was dangerous on matters of importance not to give an opinion, observed that be could conceive of no danger that would result from postponing that construction of the constitution now contended for to some future Congress, who, when the necessity of a banking institution shall be apparent, will be as competent to the decision as the present House.

Alluding to the frequent representations of the flourishing condition of the country, he inferred that this shows the necessity of the proposed institution does not exist at the present time; why, then, should we be anticipating for future generations? State banks he considered preferable to a National Bank, as counterfeits can be detected in the States; but if you establish a National Bank, the checks will be found only in the city of Philadelphia or Conococheague. He passed a eulogium on the Bank of Pennsylvania; the stockholders, said he, are not speculators; they have the solid coin deposited in their vaults.

He adverted to the preamble and context of the constitution, and asserted that this context is to be interpreted by the general powers contained in the instrument. Noticing the advantages which it had been said would accrue to the United States from the Bank, he asked, is the United States going to commence stockjobbing? The "general welfare" are the two words that are to involve and justify the assumption of every power. But what is this general welfare? It is the welfare of Philadelphia, New York, and Boston; for as to the States of Georgia and New Hampshire, they may as well be out of the Union for any advantages they will receive from the institution. He reprobated the idea of the United States deriving any emolument from the Bank, and more especially he reprobated the influence which it was designed the Government should enjoy by it. He said the Banks of Venice and Amsterdam were founded on different principles. In the famous Bank of Venice, though the Government holds no shares, yet it has at command five millions of ducats; but the United States were to be immediately concerned in theirs, and become stockholders.

The Bank of Amsterdam was under the entire direction of the burgomasters, who alone had the power of making by-laws for its regulation. This power, by the bill, was given up by Government, very improperly he thought, and was to be exercised by the stock-jobbers.

The French Bank, he added, was first established upon proper principles and flourished, but afterwards became a royal bank; much paper was introduced, which destroyed the establishment, and was near oversetting the Government.

The facility of borrowing he deprecated; it will involve the Union in irretrievable debts; the facility of borrowing is but another name for anticipation, which will in its effects deprive the Government of the power to control its revenues; they will be mortgaged to the creditors of the Government. Let us beware of following the example of Great Britain in this respect. He said, undue advantages had been taken in precipitating the measure, and the reasonable proposition respecting the State debts is not admitted. This I consider as partial and unjust.

A gentleman from Virginia has well observed that we appear to be divided by a geographical line; not a gentleman scarcely to the eastward of a certain line is opposed to the Bank, and where is the gentleman to the southward that is for it? This ideal line will have a tendency to establish a real difference. He added a few more observations, and concluded by urging a postponement, if any regard was to be had to the tranquillity of the Union.

Mr. BOUDINOT said he meant to confine himself to two or three great points on which the whole argument appeared to him to rest. He considered the objections to the bill as pointed against its constitutionality and its expediency. It was essential, he observed, that every member should be satisfied, as far as possible, of the first; for however expedient it might be, if it was clearly unconstitutional, the bill should never receive the sanction of the representatives of the people. He would, in a great measure, refer its expediency, if constitutional, to the experience of every gentleman of the House, as the most satisfactory proof on that head, and he conceived there was no need of much argument in support of its decision. The first question then was, is Congress vested with a power to grant the privileges contained in the bill? This is denied, and ought to be proved. In order to show in what manner this subject had struck his mind, he first laid down these principles:

Whatever power is exercised by Congress must be drawn from the constitution; either from the express words or apparent meaning, or from a necessary implication arising from the obvious intent of the framers.

That whatever powers (vested heretofore in any individual State) not granted by this instrument, are still in the people of such State, and cannot be exercised by Congress. That whatever implication destroys the principle of the constitution ought to be rejected. That in construing an instrument, the different parts ought to be so expounded as to give meaning to every part which will admit of it.

Having stated these preliminaries, Mr. B. proceeded to inquire what were the powers attempted to be exercised by this bill? For, until the powers were known, the question of constitutionality could not be determined.

By it Congress was about to exercise the power of incorporating certain individuals, thereby establishing a banking company for successfully conducting the finances of the nation.

The next inquiry is, what rights will this company enjoy in this new character, that they do not enjoy independent of it? Every individual citizen had an undoubted right to purchase and hold property, both real and personal, to any amount whatever; to dispose of this property to whom and on what terms he pleased; to lend his money on legal interest to any person willing to take the same; and indeed to exercise every power over his property that was contained in the bill. Individual citizens, then, having these powers, might also associate together in company or copartnership, and jointly exercising the same rights, might hold lands in joint tenancy, or as tenants in common, to any amount whatever; might put any sum of money into joint stock; might issue their notes to any amount; might make by-laws or articles of copartnership for their own government; and, finally, might set up a bank to any amount, however great, and no authority in the Government could legally interfere with the exercise of these rights. The great difference between this private association of citizens, in their individual capacities, and the company to be created by this bill, and which is held up in so dangerous a light, is, that the one exposes the company to the necessity of using each individual's name in all their transactions; suits must be brought in all their names; deeds must be taken and given in like manner; each one in his private estate is liable for the default of the rest; the death of a member dissolves the partnership as to him; and for want of a political existence the union may be dissolved by any part of its members, and of course many obvious inconveniences must be suffered merely of an official kind. By the bill these difficulties are to be removed by conveying three qualities to them.

1st. Individuality, or constituting a number of citizens into one legal artificial body, capable by a fictitious name of exercising the rights of an individual.

2d. Irresponsibility in their individual capacity, not being answerable beyond the joint capital.

3d. Durability, or a political existence for a certain time, not to be affected by the natural death of its members.

These are the whole of the powers exercised, and the rights conveyed. It is true these are convenient and advantageous to the company, but of trifling importance when considered as a right of power exercised by a National Legislature for the benefit of the Government. Can it be of any importance to the State whether a number of its citizens are considered, in legal contemplation, as united in an individual capacity, or separately as so many individuals, especially if the public weal is thereby promoted? By their irresponsibility being known, every person dealing with them gives his tacit consent to the principle, and it becomes part of the contract. And by political duration their powers and abilities are limited, and their rights restricted, so as to prevent any danger that might arise from the exercise of their joint natural right, not only as to the amount of their capital, but as to the by-laws they may make for their government.

A private bank could make contracts with the Government, and the Government with them, to all intents and purposes, as great and important as a public bank, would their capital admit of it; though they would not possess such qualities as to justify the confidence of Government, by depending on them in a time of danger and necessity. This might put it in the power of any individuals to injure the community in its essential interests by withdrawing the capital when most needed. To prevent this, and many other inconveniences, it is necessary that a bank for the purposes of Government should be a legally artificial body, possessing the three qualities above mentioned.

Mr. B. then took up the constitution, to see if this simple power was not fairly to be drawn by necessary implication from those vested by this instrument in the legislative authority of the United States. It sets out in the preamble with declaring the general purposes for which it was formed: "The insurance of domestic tranquillity, provision for the common defence, and promotion of the general welfare." These are the prominent features of this instrument, and are confirmed and enlarged by the specific grants in the body of it, where the principles on which the Legislature should rest after their proceedings are more fully laid down, and the division of power to be exercised by the general and particular Governments distinctly marked out. By the 8th section, Congress has power "to levy taxes, pay debts, provide for the common defence and general welfare, declare war, raise and support armies, provide for and maintain a navy;" and as the means to accomplish these important ends, "to borrow money," and finally, "to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers." Let us, then, inquire, is the constituting a public bank necessary to these important and essential ends of Government? If so, the right to exercise the power must be in the supreme Legislature.

He argued that the power was not contained in express words, but that it was necessarily deduced by the strongest and most decisive implication, because he contended that it was a necessary means to attain a necessary end. Necessary implication had led Congress under the power to lay and collect impost and taxes, to establish officers for the collection, to inflict penalties against those who should defraud the revenue, to oblige vessels to enter at one port and deliver in another; subjected them to various ceremonies in their proceedings, for which the owners were made to pay; and he conceived that it was not so great an exertion of power by implication to incorporate a company for the purpose of a bank. He also deduced the right from the power of paying debts, raising armies, providing for the general welfare and common defence, for which they were to borrow money. All these necessarily include the right of using every proper and necessary means to accomplish these necessary ends. It is certain, he said, that money must be raised from the people. This could not be done in sums sufficient for the exigencies of Government in a country where the precious metals were as scarce as in this. The people in general are poor when compared with European nations; they have a wilderness to subdue and cultivate; taxes must be laid with prudence, and collected with discretion; the anticipation of the revenues, therefore, by borrowing money, becomes absolutely necessary. If so, then as the constitution had not specified the manner of borrowing, or from whom the loan was to be obtained, the supreme Legislature of the Union were at liberty, it was their duty, to fix on the best mode of effecting the purposes of their appointment. For it was a sound principle, that when a general power is granted, and the means are not specified, they are left to the discretion of those in whom the trust is reposed, provided they do not adopt means expressly forbidden. The public defence, or general welfare, resting on the annual supplies from uncertain revenues, would expose the very existence of the community. It is the duty of those to whom the people have committed this power to prepare in time of peace for the necessary defence in a time of war. The United States are now happily in a state of peace; but it was impossible for any one to say how long it would continue. By prudent management it might be long preserved; but this prudence consisted in being always found in a state of preparation to defend our country.

The constitution contemplates this very duty by authorizing Congress to provide for the common defence by borrowing money. Why borrow money? Are not the annual revenues sufficient? It might be so, if nothing was to be attended to but internal wants; but the common defence and general welfare loudly call for that provision which will produce a constant guard on external enemies and internal insurrections. To this necessary end it becomes Congress to provide that the necessary means may be always at hand, by being able to arm their citizens and provide their support while engaged in the defence of their common country. This can be done only by borrowing money, which is usually of citizens or foreigners; if of the first, it must be from individuals or from private banks: will it be prudent to trust to either? Loans from individuals were attempted during the war, when patriotism produced a will in some lenders, and others were glad to get rid of a depreciating paper currency almost on any terms whatever.

But even these loans, arising from this paper medium with which the market was glutted, were altogether insufficient; and by one change of circumstances every hope was precluded of being any way successful in procuring money from that source. The circumstances of individuals, too, in this country are such, when compared with the wants of a nation, as to render the source too vague and uncertain to rely upon; and it would be a most improvident execution of the powers granted for the express purpose of the common defence and general welfare. Private banks are almost as inadequate to the object, and for reasons already given, were neither to be depended on for will or capital as to the supply for the principal wants of Government. They are generally established for commercial purposes, and on capitals not always sufficient for them. If they should be prevailed upon at any time to attempt to supply the demands of a nation at war, it must be from a general combination of their whole stocks, to the destruction of the original designs of their several institutions. This ought not to be expected; for as far as it goes to the depression of the mercantile interests, so far it is injurious to the Government; besides, a dependence upon such a combination would be impolitic, both from its slowness and uncertainty. The votes of a few individuals affected by local, selfish, or adverse politics, might endanger the whole people. Such a dependence ought not to be attributed to the wise framers of the constitution, neither does the language warrant it. But foreign loans have been mentioned, as a proper source for this purpose. The imprudence of placing the common defence of a nation on the will of those who have no interest in its welfare is a good answer to this observation. Would it be prudent to trust a foreigner, perhaps a rival, if not an enemy, with your supply of what has emphatically been called the sinews of war? Would it not expose us to exorbitant demands, and often a refusal? Many adventitious circumstances of a war, increasing demands from all quarters, scarcity of coin, and difficulty of communication, as well as the intrigues of courts, all loudly oppose the measure, as contrary to the spirit and meaning of a provision for the common defence and general welfare. The only resort then, he conceived, was by a timely provision to secure institutions at home from which loans might be obtained at all times on moderate terms, and to such amount as the necessity of the State might require. But gentlemen say that the constitution does not expressly warrant the establishment of such a corporation. If by expressly, express words are meant, it is agreed that there are no express words; and this is the case with most of the powers exercised by Congress; for if the doctrine of necessary implication is rejected, he did not see what the supreme Legislature of the Union could do in that character. If this power is not clearly given in the constitution by necessary implication, then is a necessary end proposed and directed, while the common and usual necessary means to attain that end are refused, or at least not granted.

Mr. B. was firmly of opinion that a National Bank was the necessary means, without which the end could not be obtained. Theory proved it so in his opinion, and the experience of the Union in a day of distress had fully confirmed the theory. The struggles of the friends of freedom during the late contest had nearly been rendered abortive for want of this aid. That danger which was then so hardly avoided became a solemn memento to this House to provide against a similar case of necessity. This was the time to do it with advantage, being in such profound peace. He had not heard any argument by which it was proved that individuals, private banks, or foreigners, could with safety and propriety be depended on as the efficient and necessary means for so important a purpose. Although money was at present plentiful in Europe, and might be borrowed on easy terms, it might not be so to-morrow, in case a war should break out, and our necessities become pressing. He again enumerated the harmless qualities with which it was proposed to vest the bank corporation, by the bill on the table, for the important purposes of the common defence and general welfare. Gentlemen had not yet pointed out any danger arising to the community, neither did he think it possible that any could ever be mentioned equal to those of suffering the Government to depend on individuals or private banks for loans in a day of distress.

But it was said that this bill gave the corporation a right to hold real property in a State, which Congress had no power to do. The terms of the bill are misapprehended; this is a right which has been already shown, attaches to the citizens individually, or in their associated capacity; the bill, therefore, does no more than to vest a number with an artificial single capacity under a fictitious name, and by that name to hold lands, make by-laws, &c.; all which they might have done before as citizens in a collective capacity. So far from giving a new power, their original individual rights are limited for the public safety as to the amount of their stock and the duration of their existence.

Mr. B. then proceeded to cite numerous instances of powers exercised by Congress during the last two years, deduced under the constitution by necessary implication, to show the utter impossibility of carrying any one provision of that authority into execution for the benefit of the people without this reasonable latitude of construction. He also adverted to some instances of the like conduct under the former Confederation. It had been urged that the new Congress had no rights or powers but what had been vested in and given to them by the individual States, and therefore they could not accept a cession from Great Britain by the treaty of peace of the lands extending to the Lake of the Woods, because not before included in any individual State. Every member was soon convinced of the absurdity of the argument, and by a necessary implication established the power of the Confederated Legislature. During the war the Commander-in-chief gave a passport to a British officer to transmit clothing to the British prisoners at Lancaster. He accordingly conveyed a very large quantity of British goods into Pennsylvania for that purpose; which being directly against an express law of that State, they were seized and condemned by the proper magistrate. On a complaint to the Legislature of the State, they referred the same to their Judicial officers, upon whose report (that Congress being vested with the power of declaring war, the right of giving safe passports to an enemy was necessarily implied, which, therefore, was duly exercised by their Commander-in-chief, though no express power was given to him for that purpose) the Legislature declared their law directing the condemnation of the goods void ab initio, and the judgment of condemnation had no effect.

This was also the rule that governed this House with regard to the removability of officers by the President, and the authority given to a Council to legislate for the Western Territory. In fine, he concluded, that it was universally understood that whenever a general power was given, especially to a supreme Legislature, every necessary means to carry it into execution were necessarily included. This was the common sense of mankind, without which it would require a multitude of volumes to contain the original powers of an increasing Government that must necessarily be changing its relative situation every year or two.

If power was given to raise an army, the making provision for all the necessary supplies and incidental charges was included. If a navy was to be formed, the manning and supplying the warlike stores are necessarily included. If a power is given to borrow money, a right to mortgage or pledge the public property to secure the repayment is understood to be vested in the borrower. Take up the present statute book, and every page will afford evidence of this doctrine. Examine the law with regard to crimes and punishments; under the power of establishing courts, we have implied the power of punishing the stealing and falsifying the records, and ascertained the punishment of perjury, bribery, and extortion. Under the power of regulating trade, we have accepted cessions of real estate, and built light-houses, piers, &c. All this is under the doctrine of necessary implication for the public good; and in cases not so strong as the present, and on the exercise of which no gentleman thought proper to start this objection.

This construction appears so natural and necessary, that the good sense of every gentleman on the floor has hitherto led him to proceed on this principle ever since we began to legislate; what principle of the constitution does it destroy? It gives nothing that can affect the rights of any State or citizen. Indeed, it has been said that it is exercising a high act of power; he thought it had been shown to be rather of the inferior kind; but allow the position, and who so proper as the Legislature of the whole Union to exercise such a power for the general welfare? It has also been said that this power is a mere conveniency for the purpose of fiscal transactions, but not necessary to attain the ends proposed in the constitution. This is denied, and at best is mere matter of opinion, and must be left to the discretion of the Legislature to determine.

Mr. B. said, he should now conclude what he had to say, had not an honorable gentleman (Mr. JACKSON) brought forward the observations of the author of the Federalist, vol. 2, p. 72, 73, 74, to show a different contemporaneous exposition of the constitution, and charged the author, who he alleged was said to be also the author of the present plan before the House, with a change of sentiment. As this gentleman is not here to speak for himself, he ought to have the next best chance by having what he then wrote candidly attended to, especially as gentlemen allow him to be a good authority. Mr. B. read only part of the 73d page referred to by Mr. JACKSON, in these words: "Had the Convention attempted a positive enumeration of the powers necessary and proper for carrying their other powers into effect, the attempt would have involved a complete digest of laws on every subject to which the constitution relates; accommodated, too, not only to the existing state of things, but to all the possible changes which futurity may produce; for in every new application of a general power, the particular powers which are the means of attaining the general power must always necessarily vary with that object, and be often properly varied whilst the object remains the same." How these sentiments can be said to be a different contemporaneous exposition must be left to the House to determine.

Mr. B. then begged the indulgence of the House to hear the same gentlemen when arguing expressly on that part of the constitution now under consideration; and then read pp. 144, 145, and 146, of the 1st vol. of the Federalist, which are too long to be inserted. He declared that, in his opinion, it was impracticable to put together language in the same length that could more forcibly and pointedly elucidate and prove the construction contended for in support of the bill on the table. There remained yet but two objections, to answer which Mr. B. would detain the House a little longer.

The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. JACKSON) had charged the measure with establishing the commercial interests, to the great injury of the agricultural. If this was true he never would agree to it, for he considered the agricultural interests of America as its great and sure dependence. Mr. B. confessed that so far from seeing these measures in this point of light, he could not bring his mind to comprehend how the commercial interests of a country could be promoted without greatly advancing the interests of agriculture. Will the farmer have any temptation to labor, if the surplus of what he raises beyond his domestic consumption is to perish in his barn for want of a market? Can a market be obtained without the merchant? If commerce flourishes, the merchants increase, and of course the demand for the produce of the land; but if the mercantile interests fail, there is none to export the surplus produced by agriculture. If the farmer should undertake to export his own produce, he could not give his whole attention to his affairs; or, if the merchant should attempt to raise the grain he wanted, he could not carry on his merchandise. The one interest depends on the other; a separation destroys both.

But the incapacity of the Bank to extend its influence to the extremes of the Union has been argued from the gentleman never having seen a note of the present Bank of North America in Georgia; he therefore concludes that bank has never been of any service to her agricultural interests. Mr. B. said that he drew very different conclusions from this fact. He supposed that by means of the bank the traders with Georgia had been enabled to send her the precious metals, while the bank paper had answered their purposes nearer home, where it circulated with undoubted credit. He instanced a case of a Philadelphia merchant, who was possessed of £100 in gold, and £100 credit at the bank; the merchant wanted £100 worth of rice of a Georgia planter, and the like value in flour of a Pennsylvania farmer. When he purchased the one of the Georgian, he could safely pay him the whole in gold, while he found the Pennsylvanian would as readily receive the bank paper for his flour; but had there been no bank, he could have purchased but £50 worth of each, and the Georgia and Pennsylvanian both would have gone without a market for the residue. In short, the whole Union may be likened to the body and limbs; you cannot aid or comfort one but the other must be likewise benefited.

He said it was, however, difficult and impracticable to show that every measure adopted by the Government should have an effect perfectly equal over so extensive a country as that of the United States; it was sufficient if, upon the whole, the measures of Government, taken all together, produced the desired equality.

The last objection was, that by adopting this bill we exposed the measure to be considered and defeated by the Judiciary of the United States, who might adjudge it to be contrary to the constitution, and therefore void; and not lend their aid to carry it into execution. This, he alleged, gave him no uneasiness. He was so far from controverting this right in the Judiciary, that it was his boast and his confidence. It led him to greater decision on all subjects of a constitutional nature, when he reflected that if, from inattention, want of precision, or any other defect, he should do wrong, that there was a power in the Government which could constitutionally prevent the operation of such a wrong measure from affecting his constituents. He was legislating for a nation, and for thousands unborn; and it was the glory of the constitution that there was a remedy even for the failures of the supreme Legislature itself.

Upon the whole, then, he said, that on taking the power in question in every point of view, and giving the constitution the fullest consideration, under the advantage of having the objections placed in the strongest point of light by the great abilities of the gentlemen in the opposition, he was clearly in favor of the bill; as to its expediency, there could be little doubt in the minds of any gentleman; and unless more conclusive arguments could be adduced to show its unconstitutionality, he should in the end vote for passing the bill.

SATURDAY, February 5.

Bank of the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the bill for incorporating the Bank of the United States.

The question being on the passage of the bill,

Mr. SMITH observed, that he considered it his duty to offer the reasons which should influence him in giving his vote on this occasion. He had wished amendments to the bill, as some parts of it, he confessed, did not perfectly please him; but his wishes having been overruled, the question now is, whether the bill shall pass? Though he came southward of the Potomac, the principle of the bill met his approbation. It would be a deplorable thing if this Government should enact a law subversive of the constitution, or that so enlightened a body as the Senate of the United States should, by so great a majority as were in favor of this bill, pass a law so hostile to the liberties of this country, as the opposition to this measure have suggested the bank system to be; and it would be very extraordinary if an officer of this Government who has produced a performance explanatory of the constitution, of such celebrity as to be resorted to as an authority, should be so inconsistent with himself as to propose a law entirely subversive of the principles laid down in his able defence of the constitution.

He then adverted to the objection drawn from that article of the constitution, that no preference shall be given to one port over another. He showed that the clause was inserted for a particular purpose, and could not be cited as a rule not to be deviated from, as a preference was and must necessarily be given to one port over another. He produced numerous instances in point. In consequence of various clauses in the revenue laws, general regulations sometimes operate partially, and commercial arrangements, apparently unequal, produce the good of the community at large.

In reference to construing the constitution, he observed, that the present moment, when the powers of the Government were assailed from various quarters, he conceived the most improper to contract these powers.

The right to construe the constitution he argued from the principles advanced by Mr. MADISON, in the debate on the power of removability, and read sundry observations from Lloyd's Register, made by that gentleman, corroborative of this sentiment. Those arguments, he conceived, applied very aptly to the present subject.

Matters of a fiscal nature necessarily devolve on the General Government, and he urged that every power resulting from the acknowledged right of Congress to control the finances of this country must be as necessarily implied as in the case of the power of removability.

He then alluded to the expediency of a National Bank. The Secretary gave notice, in his first report, that this plan was in contemplation. Nothing was ever read with greater avidity; and though it is now more than a year since this intimation was given, yet no objections have been offered against it either by the States or by individuals--even the State of North Carolina has not mentioned it. [Here Mr. BLOODWORTH (if the reporter did not misunderstand) informed Mr. SMITH that the report had not been seen by the Legislature of North Carolina.] Mr. SMITH said he was sorry for it--and then proceeded to notice some partial quotations, made by Mr. JACKSON, from Dr. Smith's Wealth of Nations, against bank systems. He said, he could have wished the gentleman had been more copious in his quotations from that author; if he had, he would have found that that author has fully demonstrated their utility.

He noticed the divisions of opinions on the subject of a National Bank in the city of Philadelphia. He supposed ideas of personal advantages induced these opposing sentiments. He, however, thought this subject should be taken up altogether on general principles; and even if its immediate influence should not extend to the extremes of the Union, if the establishment promises a general preponderating advantage, local considerations must be considered in a secondary point of view. The principal inquiry is, will the institution facilitate the management of the finances? This, he thought, had been made apparent. This is the opinion of the Secretary of the Treasury, after due and mature consideration of the subject; and he certainly enjoys the best means of forming an opinion; he is at the head of the Fiscal Department, and deservedly enjoys the public confidence. Very little has been offered to disprove his sentiments on this part of the question, and the inexpediency of the measure should be clearly proved before the plan is rejected; for an officer who deservedly enjoys the public confidence is entitled to the support of the Legislature in those plans which are expedient and constitutional.

Mr. S. mentioned instances in which Congress exercised power by implication, and observed, that this was necessary to the execution of the duties which devolve on the Government by the constitution. The power to establish a National Bank must reside in Congress, for no individual State can exercise any such power. The right of no particular State is therefore infringed by the institution. It had repeatedly been said, that Philadelphia would derive peculiar advantages from the Bank of the United States, but, he said, if the present plan should fail, it was a question whether the stockholders of the Bank of North America would not derive greater advantages from the necessity which, in that case, Government would be under of resorting to them for loans. The institution, as before observed, is founded on general principles, and will undoubtedly, in its operations, prove of general utility.

Mr. STONE said, if, upon questions like the present, he had given pain to members he regarded, they might be assured the pain was reciprocal. Let us cherish mutual toleration. We might conceive that each pursued the system which he advocated from the purest motives. We differ in our ideas of Government, and our sense of the sacredness of the written compact. We varied widely in our opinions of the direction of this Government. The great lesson of experiment would show who is right; but we are influenced in our habits of thinking by our local situations, and, perhaps, the distinct interests of the States we represent. He observed, that upon the present occasion, the opinions respecting the constitution seem to be divided by a geographical line, dividing the continent. Hence it might be inferred, that other considerations mixed with the question; and it had been insinuated that it was warped by the future seat of Government. But other causes may be assigned for the diversity of sentiment--the people to the eastward began earliest in favor of liberty. They pursued freedom into anarchy--starting at the precipice of confusion, they are now vibrating far the other way. He said, that all our taxes are paid by the consumers of manufactures; those taxes are all bounties upon home manufactures. The people to the eastward are the manufacturers of this country; it was no wonder that they should endeavor to strengthen the hands of a Government by which they are so peculiarly benefited.

It is a fact that the greatest part of the Continental debt has travelled eastward of the Potomac. This law is to raise the value of the Continental paper. Here, then, is the strong impulse of immediate interest in favor of the Bank. He took notice of the distinction made by the plan of the bill, between Continental and State paper. The State paper, on account of partial payments of interest, still remained in the respective States. But this could not, by the present system, be subscribed; so that the Southern States were deprived of the advantage that might have been given to the only paper they have. But if gentlemen charge us with defending the seat of Government, let them remember that this betrays consciousness of an attack. If they believe that this scheme tends to break the faith of the Union pledged to the Potomac, it is no wonder they suppose we oppose it upon that ground. He would not have mentioned this subject, had it not been hinted at. But let the whole of it come forth; let gentlemen consult their own bosoms; let the public decide the truth of his observations. He hoped he should not be suspected of any bias. That so uniform had been his conduct upon all questions, turning upon principles similar to the present, that every member in the House, he believed, had conjectured rightly of the side he would take, before he had uttered a word upon the subject, When implication first raised its head in this House, he started from it as a serpent which was to sting and poison the constitution. He felt in unison with his country. The fears, the opinions, the jealousies of individuals and of States, had been explained by a gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON.) He should only remark, that all those who opposed the Government dreaded this doctrine; those who advocated it, declared that it could not be resorted to; and all combined in opinion that it ought not to be tolerated. Never did any country more completely unite in any sentiment than America in this, "that Congress ought not to exercise, by implication, powers not granted by the constitution." And is it not strange? For the admission of this doctrine destroys the principle of our Government at a blow; it at once breaks down every barrier which the Federal constitution had raised against unlimited legislation. He said, that necessity was the most plausible pretext for breaking the spirit of the social compact, but the people of this country have anticipated that pretext. They have said to the Ministers of this country, "we have given you what we think competent powers, but if experience proves them inadequate, we will enlarge them; but, in the mean time, dare not usurp those which we have reserved."

It is agreed on all hands, that the power to incorporate the subscribers to a banking company, is not expressly granted, and although gentlemen have agreed that it is implied--that it is an incident, that it is a means for effectuating powers expressly granted, yet they are not agreed as to the particular power to which this is an incident. They admit, that the sweeping clause in the constitution confers no additional power. But if he understood the gentlemen, several of them were of opinion that all governments, instituted for certain ends, draw to them the means of execution as of common right. This doctrine would make ours but a short constitution. [Here he read the preamble and then said:] Here is your constitution! Here is your bill of rights! Do these gentlemen require any thing more respecting the powers of Congress, than a description of the ends of government? And if, of right, they can carry these into effect, will they regard the means, though they be expressly pointed out? But I would ask if there is any power under heaven which could not be exercised within the extensive limits of this preamble?

The Convention might have stopped here; and there was no need, according to the doctrine of the gentleman, to point out any of the means for the ends mentioned in the preamble. That portion of the constitution which by all America has been thought so important, according to their logic, would become a dead letter; but the preamble, in fair construction, is a solemn compact, that the powers granted shall be made use of to the ends thereby specified.

He then reprobated, in pointed terms, the latitude of the principles premised. He said the end of all government is the public good; and if the means were left to legislation, all written compacts were nugatory. He observed, that the sober discretion of the Legislature, which, in the opinions of gentlemen, ought to be paramount, was the very thing intended to be curbed and restrained by our constitution.

He then declared, that our form of government not only pointed out the ends of government, but specified the means of execution. He said, we may make war--this would draw to it the power of raising an army and navy, laying taxes, establishing a judiciary, &c. But the spirit of the constitution, in this respect, had been well explained by Mr. MADISON, and he should not recapitulate.

He said, a gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) had remarked that all our laws proceeded upon the principle of expediency--that we were the judges of that expediency--as soon as we gave it as our opinion that a thing was expedient, it became constitutional. What then remains of your constitution, except its mode of organization? We may look into it to refresh our memories respecting the times, places, and manner of composing the Government; that, as to the powers of Congress, were he of that gentleman's opinion, he would never look into it again. Gentlemen see the difficulties of their theories, and are obliged to confess that these incidental powers are not easily defined. They rest in the sober discretion of the Legislature.

One gentleman (Mr. AMES) has said, no implication ought to be made against the law of nature, against rights acquired, or against power pre-occupied by the States; that it is easier to restrain than to give competent powers of execution. Now these notions are hostile to the main principle of our Government, which is only a grant of particular portions of power, implying a negative to all others. It has been shown that the ends of government will include every thing. If gentlemen are allowed to range in their sober discretion for the means, it is plain that they have no limits. By the cabalistic word incident, your constitution is turned upside down, and instead of being a grant of particular powers, guarded by an implied negative to all others, it is made to imply all powers. But, strange to tell, America forgot to guard it by express negative provisions. Is there any difference in effect between lodging general powers in a government, and permitting the exercise of them by subtle constructions? He said there was a difference. In the one case the people fairly gave up their liberty, and stood prepared; in the other, they were unexpectedly tricked out of their constitution.

The preceding remarks showed how dangerous is the doctrine of implication, and upon what small data ingenuity can raise the most dangerous superstructure. He should now take a view of these precedents, in the former and present Congress, which are relied on to justify the present measure.

1st. The Bank of North America. Here he stated the distressful and critical situation of America at the period of its establishment; he remarked, that it was at the time of the declension of the Continental money. He showed that there were no powers in the Confederation to which (even according to the reasoning of the other side) this power could be incidental, but what required the vote of nine States; that the ordinance passed by a vote of seven States, which showed that necessity alone gave birth to that measure. He showed the dissimilarity of the situations of the former and this Congress, and the difference in their powers, and, consequently, in the dangers to be apprehended from the encroachment of either.

2d. The redemption of our prisoners at Algiers. This comes within the power to regulate trade. If, said he, we are not capable of redeeming, by the best means in our power, our citizens, our trade may be entirely ruined; and hence, the law which would be made for their redemption would be necessary and proper. But, by the constitution, the Executive may make treaties; these may be general, or for a particular object, and the Legislature may effectuate them by grants of money.

3d. We have bought certificates, and not destroyed them. This, they say, is implied from the power of paying the debts.

He asked if, before the purchase, the certificates were debts due from the United States? And demanded, if, by the purchase, they were divested of that quality? In my judgment, when a debt is fairly cancelled, it is as much like a payment as need be.

4th. We had no right, except by implication, to give a salary to the Vice President. He had voted against the salary, and had been for a per diem allowance, because he thought the Vice President was viewed by the constitution only as the President of the Senate. But this example fails most palpably, as Congress, in the compensations, are not confined by the constitution either to a particular sum or mode of payment.

5th. Congress have made corporations, and exercised complete legislation in the Western Territory. He said, to answer this case, nothing more was necessary than to read the clause in the constitution which gives to Congress expressly the power to make all the rules and regulations for them.

It seemed to him as if gentlemen were inverting the order of things, by making powers where there were none, and attempting to prove express grants to the implications.

6th. Our regulations respecting freighters and owners, and between captains and seamen. He had not those regulations correctly in his memory, but he believed them proper and necessary regulations of commerce.

7th. It has been said we have exclusive jurisdiction in places belonging to Congress, and within the ten miles square. We could erect a bank in any of those places; its influence would extend over the continent; the principle upon which we founded this power could not be confined to a particular time or a spot of land. Gentlemen ridicule the idea that the exercise of a pervading influence and a general principle should be limited by any particular number of years, or be confined within a fort. He said, the power of exclusive legislation in those places was expressly granted, and, under its influence, the Congress might exercise complete and exclusive legislation within those limits; that the power was confined to the places. But if the general powers of this constitution are to be governed by the same rules of construction, and we are to have no regard to place, it follows that Congress can exercise exclusive legislation over this continent. He was astonished at this doctrine. It would be equally reasonable to say, that France, because within the limits of her own dominions, and over her own property, she exercised exclusive legislation, that hence she had a right to legislate for the world.

8th. The power of removal of officers by the President alone. He said, it was known he had opposed that doctrine. He left it to be defended by those who had voted for it. But he hoped Mr. Smith, of South Carolina, and some other gentlemen, who had opposed it, would review the arguments they had used upon that occasion.

He observed, after taking a view of these precedents on the danger of laying down improper principles in legislation, how eagerly men grasped at the slightest pretexts for exercise of power. He shuddered to think what a broad and commanding position this Bank will form for further encroachments.

A gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. SEDGWICK) has said, that whenever a power is granted, all the known and usual means of execution are always implied. The idea had been properly examined by Mr. GILES, but he would ask, if incorporating the subscribers to a bank was the known and usual means of borrowing money, especially when the subscribers were not obliged to loan; or of collecting taxes, when no taxes were levied on the bank.

But gentlemen tell us, that if we tie up the constitution too tightly, it will break; if we hamper it, we cannot stir; if we do not admit the doctrine, we cannot legislate at all. And with a kind of triumph, they say that implication is recognized by the constitution itself in the clause wherein we have power to make all laws, to carry, &c. He said, he was ready to meet the gentlemen upon this ground. This clause was intended to defeat those loose and proud principles of legislation which had been contended for. It was meant to reduce legislation to some rule. In fine, it confined the Legislature to those means that were necessary and proper.

He said, it would not be pretended that it was necessary and proper for the collection of taxes. Indeed, one gentleman (Mr. AMES) had attempted to show that the payments in specie could not be made, if by chance a great quantity of debt suddenly accumulated in a particular place. But it might be remembered, that this necessity, if it arrived, was created by the Legislature, and that would be strange reasoning which broke a good constitution to mend a bad law. No taxes are to be collected by this bill.

It would not be necessary and proper as a means of borrowing money, because, first, we do not want to borrow money, and, if we did, this law, though it may be the probable, is not the necessary mean; for if it was the interest of the stockholders, they might, and he believed would, refuse to loan. He said, that the institution might be defended upon more plausible grounds, if the Bank had been taxed; or if a condition to loan money to the public had been part of the plan. Upon what ground, then, do gentlemen stand? They can only say, that they have implied a great and substantive power in Congress, which gives to Government, or to individuals, the influence of fifteen millions of dollars, irrevocably, for twenty years, with a power of making by-laws, &c., because there is a probability that this institution may be convenient and agreeable in the operations of Government. He asked, upon parallel principles, what might Congress not do? He said, that the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) pursuing the doctrine into all the forms in which it might appear, had struck upon several cases which were very pointed--an incorporation of manufacturers with exclusive privileges; merchants with the same; a national religion. This a gentleman (Mr. AMES) has said was unfair and extravagant reasoning; and yet, in five minutes, the gentleman's own reasoning led him to ask, with warmth, if Congress could not join stocks with a company to trade to Nootka? And he condescended to doubt, if the privileges given to such a company might not be exclusive. He saw clearly, himself, that his theory led to the latter conclusion; for if expediency, if convenience, if facility, if fears of war, if preparations for events which might never happen, can justify an incorporation upon the present plan, the same suggestions, the same logic, will legalize incorporations with exclusive privileges. The deductions of the gentleman from Virginia are sound and right, and cannot be fairly controverted. Congress may then do any thing. Nay, if the principles now advocated are right, it is the duty of the Legislature of the Union to make all laws; not only those that are necessary and proper to carry the powers of the Government into effect, but all laws which are convenient, expedient, and beneficial to the United States. Then where is your constitution! Are we not now sitting, in our sober discretion, a General Government, without the semblance of restraint? Yes, said he, we have still a constitution, but where is it to be found? Is it written? No. Is it among the archives? No. Where is it? It is found in the sober discretion of the Legislature--it is registered in the brains of the majority!

He proceeded. I say there is no necessity, there is no occasion, for this Bank. The States will institute banks which will answer every purpose. But a distrust of the States is shown in every movement of Congress--will not this implant distrust also in the States? Will you gain by this contest? This scheme may give, and I am convinced will give, partial advantages to the States. In the fair administration of our Government, no partial advantages can be given; but, by this bill, a few stockholders may institute banks in particular States, to their aggrandizement and the oppression of others. This Bank will swallow up the State banks; it will raise in this country a moneyed interest at the devotion of Government; it may bribe both States and individuals. He said, gentlemen asked who would be offended or hurt by this plan? Have we heard any complaints against it? Have the newspapers reprobated it? These questions had no influence on his mind. He said it was one of those sly and subtle movements which marched silently to its object; the vices of it were at first not palpable or obvious; but when the people saw a distinction of banks created--when they viewed with astonishment the train of wealth which followed individuals, whose sudden exaltation surprised even the possessors--they would inquire how all this came about? They will then examine into the powers by which these phenomena have arisen, and they will find--they will reprobate the falsehood of the theories of the present day.

He said, that gentlemen had told us of the sudden irruptions of enemies. When those necessities arrive, it is time enough to make use of them to break your constitution. But, gentlemen say, upon emergencies the Bank will loan money. We differ in opinion. I think when we want it most, the Bank will be most unable and unwilling to lend. If we are in prosperity, we can borrow money almost any where; but in adversity, stockholders will avoid us with as much caution as any other capitalists.

But a gentleman (Mr. AMES) tells us not to be alarmed, the Bank will not eat up liberty--he said he was not afraid. He was not under any apprehensions that all the little influence that Congress possessed would destroy the great spirit of American liberty. The body of the people would laugh at and ridicule any attempt to enslave them; but a conduct which had that tendency might arouse alarming passions. He said, there existed at this moment ill-blood in the United States, which to quiet he would readily agree to enter into a foreign war. America with us, we might defy the world. There was but one people he was afraid of offending. This was America. He was not afraid of foreign enemies, but the resentment of our own country is always a subject of serious apprehension. He observed, that there were other parts of this important and diffusive subject which he might have touched, but he had fatigued himself and the House.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said, as he had been greatly misunderstood by the gentleman last up, he wished to explain the position he had laid down. He had never been so absurd as to contend, as the gentleman had stated, that whatever the Legislature thought expedient, was therefore constitutional. He had only argued that in cases where the question was, whether a law was necessary and proper to carry a given power into effect, the members of the Legislature had no other guide but their own judgment, from which alone they were to determine whether the measure proposed was necessary and proper to carry the powers vested in Congress into full effect. If, in such cases, it appeared to them, on solemn deliberation, that the measure was not prohibited by any part of the constitution, was not a violation of the rights of any State or individual, and was peculiarly necessary and proper to carry into operation certain essential powers of the Government, it was then not only justifiable on the part of Congress, but it was even their duty to adopt such measure. That, nevertheless, it was still within the province of the Judiciary to annul the law, if it should be by them deemed not to result by fair construction from the powers vested by the constitution.

MONDAY, February 7.

Bank of the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the bill for incorporating the Bank of the United States.

The question being on the passage of the bill,

Mr. GILES.--In the course of discussing the present important question, it has been several times insinuated that local motives, and not a candid and patriotic investigation of the subject upon its merits, have given rise to that difference of opinion which has been heretofore manifested in this House. I shall not examine the truth of this observation, but merely remark, that the causes which may have produced the arguments against the proposed measure, whatever they may be, can neither add to, nor take from, their merit or influence, and, of course, the insinuations might have been spared without injury to the subject; but so far as the observation may have been intended to apply to myself, I can truly say, that if a bias were to influence my conduct, it would rather direct it to favor, than to oppose the proposed measure. This bias would arise from two causes: the one from the respect which I entertain for the judgments of the majority who advocate the measure; the other of a more serious nature. I have observed with regret a radical difference of opinion between gentlemen from the Eastern and Southern States, upon the great Governmental questions, and have been led to conclude, that the operation of that cause alone might cast ominous conjecture on the promised success of this much valued Government. Mutual concessions appear to be necessary to obviate this effect, and I have always been pleased in manifesting my disposition to make advances; but from the most careful view of the arguments in favor of the proposed measure considered under this impression, they do not seem to me sufficient to establish the propriety of its adoption, and I am therefore impelled, by the joint influence of duty and opinion, to be one in the opposition.

A gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. AMES) prefaced his observations with this remark, that it is easier to point out defects and raise objections to any proposed system, than to defend it from objections, and prove its affirmative propriety, and warned the House against the effects of arguments of this nature, urged in opposition to the measures now under consideration. I agree with the gentleman in this idea in general, but we should reflect that in the present case the address of the arguments in favor of the measure is made to one of the strongest affections of the human mind, the love of dominion; and hence we may justly conclude, that they will be received and relished with their full and unabated influence. This reflection appears to me to be at least a counterpoise to that remark.

The advocates of this bill have been called on, and I conceive with propriety, to show its constitutionality and expediency, both of which have been doubted by those of the opposition. In support of the first position, a multitude of arguments have been adduced, all of which may be reducible to the following heads; such as are drawn from the constitution itself; from the incidentality of this authority to the mere creation and existence of government; from the expediency of the measure itself; and from precedents of Congress; to which may be added a similar exercise of authority by Congress, under the former Confederation.

Observations arising from the constitution itself, were of two kinds. The right of exercising this authority is either expressed in the constitution, or deducible from it by necessary implication. One gentleman only, from Massachusetts, (Mr. SEDGWICK,) has ventured to assert, that, discarding the doctrine of implication, he could show that the right to exercise the authority contended for was expressly contained in the constitution. This, I presume, must have been a mistake in language, because the difference between an express and an implied authority appears to me to consist in this--in the one case, the natural import of the words used in granting the authority would of themselves convey a complete idea to the mind of the authority granted, without the aid of argument or deduction; in the other, to convey a complete idea to the mind, the aid of argument and deduction is found necessary to the usual import of words used; and that gentleman proceeded with a labored argument to prove, that the authority was expressly granted, which would have been totally useless, if his assertion had been just.

[Mr. SEDGWICK rose to explain; he never conceived the authority granted by the express words of the constitution, but absolutely by necessary implication from different parts of it.]

I shall not contend as to the assertion, but shall proceed to consider the arguments in favor of the measure upon the doctrine of implication; which, indeed, are those only which deserve consideration.

In doing this, I shall consider the authority contended for to apply to that of granting charters to corporations in general, for I do not recollect any circumstance, and I believe none has been pretended, which could vary this case from the general exercise of that authority. To establish the affirmative of this proposition, arguments have been drawn from the several parts of the constitution; the context has been resorted to. "We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity," &c. It has been remarked, that here the ends for which this Government was established are clearly pointed out; the means to produce the ends are left to the choice of the Legislature, and that the incorporation of a bank is one necessary mean to produce these general ends. It may be observed, in reply, that the context contemplates every general object of Government whatever; and if this reasoning were to be conclusive, every object of Government would be within the authority of Congress, and the detail of the constitution would have been wholly unnecessary, further than to designate the several branches of the Government which were to be intrusted with this unlimited, discretionary choice of means, to produce these specified ends. The same reasoning would apply as forcibly to every clause of the constitution, restraining the authority of Congress to the present case, or to any one in which the constitution is silent. The only candid construction arising from the context appears to me to be this; it is designed, and it is the known office of every member to point out the great objects proposed to be answered by the subsequent regulations of which the constitution is composed. These regulations contain the means by which these objects are presumed to be best answered. These means consist in a proper distribution of all Governmental rights between the Government of the United States and the several State governments, and in fixing limits to the exercise of all authorities granted to the Government of the United States. The context, therefore, gives no authority whatever, but only contemplates the ends for which certain authorities are subsequently given. Arguments drawn from this source appear to be ineffectual in themselves, and the reliance of gentlemen upon them indicates a suspicion and distrust of such as may be drawn from other parts of the constitution. The advocates of the bill have turned away from this context, and have applied to the body of the constitution in search of arguments. They have fixed upon the following clauses, to all or some one of which they assert the authority contended for is clearly incidental; the right to lay and collect taxes, &c., &c.; to provide for the common defence and general welfare, &c.; to borrow money, &c.; to regulate commerce with foreign nations, &c. The bill contemplates neither the laying nor collecting taxes, and, of course, it cannot be included in that clause; indeed, it is not pretended, by the bill itself, to be at all necessary to produce either of those ends; the furthest the idea is carried in the bill, is, that it will tend to give a facility to the collection.

The terms "common defence and general welfare" contain no grant of any specific authority, and can relate to such only as are particularly enumerated and specified. "To borrow money." Gentlemen have relied much upon this clause; their reasoning is, that a right to incorporate a bank is incidental to that of borrowing money, because it creates the ability to lend, which is necessary to effectuate the right to borrow. I am at a loss to discover one single relation between the right to borrow, and the right to create the ability to lend, which is necessary to exist between principal and incident. It appears to me that the incidental authority is paramount to the principal, for the right of creating the ability to lend is greater than that of borrowing from a previously existing ability. I should, therefore, rather conclude that the right to borrow, if there be a connection at all, would be incidental to the right to grant charters of incorporation, than the reverse of that proposition, which is the doctrine contended for by the advocates of the measure. The same reasoning which would establish a right to create the ability to lend, would apply more strongly to enforce the will after the ability is created; because the creator would have a claim of gratitude at least upon the created ability, which if withheld, perhaps, with justice might be insisted on. "To regulate commerce with foreign nations." This is by no means a satisfactory ground for the assumption of this authority; for if it be deemed a commercial regulation, there is a clause in the constitution which would absolutely inhibit its exercise. I allude to that clause which provides that no preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another; and it seems to be admitted, that one principal effect to be produced by the operation of this measure will be to give a decided commercial preference to this port over every other in the United States.

Gentlemen finding it difficult to show that necessary relation and intimate connection between the authority contended for, and any one of the specified authorities before mentioned, which would be essential to the establishment of their doctrine, have referred to what has been generally called the sweeping clause, and have made deductions from the terms "necessary" and "proper;" they have observed that certain specified authorities being granted, all others necessary to their execution follow without any particular specification. This observation may in general be true, but its fallacy here consists in its application to this particular case. It cannot be applied until the exercise of this authority be proved to be necessarily connected with some one of the previously enumerated authorities, and here the argument, as well as the fact, fails.

The authority contended for seems to me to be a distinct substantive branch of legislation, and, perhaps, paramount to any one of the previously enumerated authorities, and should therefore not be usurped as an incidental subaltern authority.

I am confirmed in this opinion from the indistinct, confused conceptions of gentlemen who advocate the measure. They rely upon the incidentality of this authority to some one of those particularly specified, and yet have applied it as an incident to several distinct, unconnected subjects of legislation; and then, distrusting their own conclusions, or as if the inquiry would be too troublesome or minute, they leave this ground, and assert that it is incidental to the result of the whole combined specified authorities. Gentlemen must, therefore, view this right through different optics, at different times; or, what I rather believe to be the fact, they have no distinct view of it at all, the right having no existence.

A gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. SEDGWICK,) finding the usual import of the terms used in the constitution to be rather unfavorable to the doctrines advanced by him, has favored us with a new exposition of the word "necessary." He says that "necessary," as applicable to a mean to produce an end, should be construed so as to produce the greatest quantum of public utility. I have been taught to conceive that the true exposition of a necessary mean to produce a given end was that mean without which the end could not be produced.

The gentleman's reasoning, however, if pursued, will be found to teem with dangerous effects, and would justify the assumption of any given authority whatever. Terms are to be so construed as to produce the greatest degree of public utility. Congress are to be the judges of this degree of utility. This utility, when decided on, will be the ground of constitutionality. Hence any measure may be proved constitutional which Congress may judge to be useful. These deductions would suborn the constitution itself, and blot out the great distinguishing characteristic of the free constitutions of America, as compared with the despotic Governments of Europe, which consist in having the boundaries of governmental authority clearly marked out and ascertained.

The exclusive jurisdiction over ten miles square has been adverted to by one gentleman (Mr. AMES) as a specified authority, to which the one contended for is suggested to be incidental. He has reasoned in this manner: Congress possess jurisdiction over ten miles square, &c.; Congress may therefore establish a bank within the ten miles square, and, as principle is not applicable to place, Congress may exercise the same authority any where else. This seems to me to be an ingenious improvement upon sophistical deduction; the gentleman, however, should have reflected that the ground upon which he built the right to exercise this authority was that of exclusive jurisdiction, and to extend the principle it is necessary to extend the right of exclusive jurisdiction; without this, the basis of his argument fails, and the superstructure, however beautiful, must follow; for the principle, if at all deducible from that source, is expressly confined to place, and cannot operate beyond it.

I shall now consider the second resource, whence the constitutional right of exercising the proposed authority is derived; its incidentality to the mere creation and existence of government. It has been observed, that in all governments there are certain rights tacitly granted, and certain other rights retained; that it is impossible, in framing a constitution, to enumerate every minute governmental right, and that such an attempt would be chimerical and vain. And hence the incidentality of this authority to the mere existence of government is inferred. These observations seem to me to apply to a government growing out of a state of society, and not to a government composed of chartered rights from previously existing governments, or the people of those governments. I have been taught to consider this as a Federal, not as a consolidated Government, and am not prepared or disposed at present to relinquish that idea. A gentleman from New York (Mr. LAWRENCE) has remarked, that the Government is consolidated quo ad the powers granted, and of course quo ad their incidents; but he should first have shown that the authority contended for is one of those granted, or incidental to some one of them, before the application can be made. The observation can have no tendency to establish either of those positions. What effect would this doctrine, if admitted, have upon the State governments? And how would it be relished by them? Their dignity and consequence will not only be prostrated by it, but their very existence radically subverted. A third resource of deducing this constitutional authority is resorted to--the expediency of the proposed measure itself. I presume the great object of the constitution was to distribute all governmental rights between the several State Governments and the Government of the United States; the expediency, therefore, of the exercise of all constitutional rights, as they relate to State or General Governments, is properly contemplated and decided by the constitution, and not by the Governments among which the distribution is made. A gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) has said, that the expediency and constitutionality of the proposed measure cannot be considered separately, because the constitutionality grows out of the expediency. This is but candidly unveiling the subject of that sophistical mask which has been ingeniously thrown over it by some gentlemen; for all the arguments adduced in favor of the measure, from whatever source they arise, if pursued, will be found to rush into the great one of expediency, to bear down all constitutional provisions, and to end themselves in the unlimited ocean of despotism.

Several gentlemen have said, that this authority may be safely exercised, since it does not interfere with the rights of States or individuals. I think this assertion not very correct; if the States be constitutionally entitled to the exercise of this authority, it is an intrusion on their rights to do an act which would eventually destroy or impede the freest exercise of that authority; for it is totally immaterial whether the effect be produced by the operation of this, or by an inhibition in express terms. The States may not only incorporate banks, but may of right prohibit the circulation of bank paper within their respective limits; the act, therefore, if it be intended to have an effectual operation, will certainly infringe this right, or exist at the mercy of the State governments. This reasoning, however, places the subject in another point of view a little singular. It contemplates the authority contended for as vacant ground, and justifies the tenure by the mere title of occupancy. In almost all the remarks in favor of the measure, gentlemen seem to have forgotten the peculiar nature of this Government. It being composed of mere chartered authorities, all authority not contained within that charter would, from the nature of the grant, have been retained to the granting party; and I will venture to assert, that this opinion was the sine qua non of the adoption and existence of this Government; but if this opinion had been doubtful, Congress themselves have made an express declaration in favor of this construction to the proposed amendments to the constitution. Gentlemen have inferred a constitutional right to exercise the authority contended for from a fourth resource--the former usages and habits of Congress. In affirmance of this argument, several acts of Congress have been referred to--the power of removal from office, the government of the Western Territory, the cession from North Carolina, the purchase of West Point, &c. I shall not examine into the propriety of these several acts, though I conceive it would not be difficult to show, that they differ materially, upon constitutional grounds, from the one now proposed. I shall only remark, that, if Congress have heretofore been in the usage and habit of disregarding and violating the constitution, it is high time that that habit and usage be corrected. I hope and trust that the people of the United States will not tamely see the only security of their rights and liberties invaded and violated, but also see one violation of it with impunity boldly urged as an argument to justify another.

An instance of a similar exercise of authority by the Congress which existed under the former Confederation, has been mentioned in favor of its exercise by the present Congress. The argument has been, that as the powers of the present Congress are greater than those of the former Congress, and the former were competent to the exercise of this right, the present must be more so. It is to be remarked, that that act was the child of necessity, and that Congress doubted its legitimacy, and the act itself was never confirmed by a judicial decision; and it should be also remarked, that the same Congress did not pretend to possess the right to punish those who should counterfeit the paper of the Bank, and recommended it to the States to confirm the act which they had done, and to pass laws for the purpose of punishing those who should counterfeit the paper, and it is a little remarkable that this circumstance, which is one of the most essential to the existence and operation of this act, is withheld from our view. But as I think arguments drawn from this source wholly foreign to the subject, I shall make no further remark upon them.

I shall now suggest a few observations respecting the expediency of the proposed measure. In doing this, I shall not say any thing as to the utility of banks in general, nor as to the effects of the banks of England, Scotland, Holland, &c. I possess not sufficient practical or theoretical knowledge to justify the inquiry; I shall only point out a few circumstances, which are peculiarly attached to the government we are now administering, which might vary the application of general rules, drawn from governments of a different nature, and which possess the unquestioned right of granting charters of incorporation.

In the first place, the right of exercising that authority by the Government is at least problematical, it is nowhere granted in express terms; the Legislature, therefore, can have no competent security against a judicial decision but a dependent or a corrupt court. I presume that a law to punish with death those who counterfeit the paper emitted by the Bank will be consequent upon the existence of this act. Hence a judicial decision will probably be had of the most serious and awful nature; the life of an individual at stake on the one hand, an improvident act of the Government on the other. A distrust arising from this cause will for ever keep the Bank in jeopardy, and the very first trial of this nature will probably subject the Bank to a run which it will be unable to withstand; for all stockholders will require the greatest possible security for their money, and a distrust of such an institution will be its destruction. This observation seems to me to have peculiar force, from the great proportion of paper to that of gold and silver, upon which the Bank is proposed to be founded. The peculiar relation between the General and State Governments, will naturally produce a contest for governmental rights, until long experience shall settle the precise boundaries between them. The present measure appears to me to be an unprovoked advance in this scramble for authority, and a mere experiment how far we may proceed without involving the opposition of the State Governments. It should be remarked that this Government is in its childhood; it is therefore unfitted for such bold and manly enterprises, and policy would dictate that it should wait at least until it may have become more matured or invigorated. Two modes of administering this Government present themselves; the one with mildness and moderation, by keeping within the known boundaries of the constitution, the other, by the creation and operation of fiscal mechanism; the first will ensure us the affections of the people, the only natural and substantial basis of Republican Governments; the other will arise and exist in oppression and injustice, will increase the previously existing jealousies of the people, and must be ultimately discarded, or bring about a radical change in the nature of our Government. Having suggested these observations upon the measure in general, I shall now proceed to point out a few objections to the details of the bill. I think the authority given to the Bank to purchase and hold lands objectionable; in the first place I doubt the constitutional right of Congress to invest such an authority; the lands within the United States are holden of the individual States, and not of the United States; and that tenure appears to me to be the true ground upon which the right to exercise that authority grows. I believe it is admitted, that although Congress may naturalize a foreigner, they cannot authorize him to purchase lands; and I think the case at least as strong, when they first create an artificial person, and then invest the authority; besides, if we have any reference to the experience of other countries, we shall find it dangerous to allow incorporated bodies to hold lands at all. The exercise of that right produced great oppression in England, and nothing but the masterly activity of an absolute prince could apply a competent remedy. A gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. SEDGWICK) has denied that the Bank is invested with this right. It is true it is confined to the mode of purchasing by mortgage, but that is the most effectual mode of purchasing, and the most ruinous to the landholder.

I will merely mention one other objection without a comment--the authority given to make laws not contrary to law or its own constitution; but the most objectionable clause is that which limits its duration, and pledges the faith of the United States that no other bank shall be established in the mean time, however dangerous and offensive the present measure might prove in its operation, and whatever may be the utility and advantage in any other scheme of banking which experience may suggest. Such a stipulation cannot be justified but from the most pointed necessity, and from the maturest deliberation. When I search for the necessity of this measure, it escapes me; it is not pretended in the bill itself; the chief stimulus which I can discover to the existence of this measure, is to give artificial impulse to the value of stock. This is not a sufficient justification; the subject has not been sufficiently considered, and I therefore hope it may be postponed to some future session of Congress; many evils may be avoided by such a conduct, none can result from it.

Mr. GERRY said, he should principally confine himself to the objections of the gentleman first up from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) not from a disrespect to the observations of other gentlemen in the opposition, but because he considered their arguments as grafts on the original stock of those urged by the gentleman alluded to, and if the trunk fell, its appendages must fall also.

The objects of the bill were to render the fiscal administration successful, and to give facility to loans on sudden emergencies, and to benefit trade and industry in general; and that these were objects of high importance had not been denied, neither had it been asserted that they ought not, if possible, to be attained.

It is objected, however, that the mode proposed by the bill is unconstitutional, and the bill itself defective.

The mode proposed is a National Bank; to establish which he thought Congress were as competent as either House were to adjourn from day to day.

It is said that Congress have no power relating to this subject, except what is contained in the clauses for laying and collecting taxes, imposts, excises, &c.; for borrowing money, and for making all laws necessary and proper for carrying these powers into effect; and that these do not authorize the establishment of a National Bank.

To ascertain this, the gentleman from Virginia proposes a candid interpretation of the constitution, which we shall agree to, and he offers to assist us with his rules of interpretation, for his good intentions in doing which we give him full credit; but as he acknowledges that he has been long decided against the authority of Congress to establish a bank, and is therefore prejudiced against the measure; as his rules, being made for the occasion, are the result of his interpretation, and not his interpretation of the rules; as they are not sanctioned by law exposition, or approved by experienced judges of the law, they cannot be considered as a criterion for regulating the judgment of the House, but may, if admitted, prove an ignis fatuus that may lead to destruction.

We wish not, however, by establishing our own rules of interpretation, to enjoy the privilege which is denied to the gentleman, but will meet him on fair ground, by applying rules which have the sanction mentioned; and as the learned Judge Blackstone has laid down such, it is presumed the gentleman from Virginia will not contend for a preference, or refuse to be tried by this standard.

The Judge observes: "That the fairest and most rational method to interpret the will of the legislator is by exploring his intentions at the time when the law was made by signs the most natural and probable; and these signs are either the words, the context, the subject-matter, the effect and consequence, or the spirit and reason of the law." With respect to words, the Judge observes, that "they are generally understood in their usual and most ordinary signification, not so much regarding the grammar as their general and popular use."

The gentlemen on different sides of the question do not disagree with respect to the meaning of the terms taxes, duties, imposts, excises, &c., or of borrowing money, but of the word necessary: and the question is, what is the general and popular meaning of this term? Perhaps the answer to the question will be truly this, that in a general and popular one the word does not admit of a definite meaning, but that this varies according to the subject and circumstances. With respect to the subject for instance, if the people, speaking of a garrison besieged by a superior force, and without provisions, or a prospect of relief, should say it was under the necessity of surrendering, they would mean a physical necessity, for troops cannot subsist long without provisions; but if speaking of a debtor, the people should say he was frightened by his creditor and then reduced to the necessity of paying his debts, they would mean a legal, which is very different from a physical necessity; for although the debtor, by refusing payment, might be confined, he would be allowed subsistence, and the necessity he was under to pay his debts would not extend beyond his confinement. Again, if it should be said that a client is under the necessity of giving to his lawyer more than legal fees, the general popular meaning of necessity would, in this instance, be very different from that in the other; the necessity would neither be physical nor legal, but artificial, or, if I may be allowed the expression, a long-robe necessity.

The meaning of the word "necessary," varies also according to circumstances; for although Congress have power to levy and collect taxes, duties, &c., to borrow money, and to determine the time, quantum, mode, and every regulation necessary and proper for supplying the Treasury, yet the people would apply a different meaning to the word "necessary" under different circumstances. For instance, without a sufficiency of precious metals for a medium, laws creating an artificial medium would be generally thought necessary for carrying into effect the power to levy and collect taxes; but if there was a sufficiency of such metals, those laws would not generally be thought necessary. Again, if specie was scarce, and the credit of the Government low, collateral measures would be by the people thought necessary for obtaining public loans: but not so, if the case was reversed. Or, if part of the States should be invaded and overrun by an enemy, it would be thought necessary to levy on the rest heavy taxes, and collect them in a short period, and to take stock, grain, and other articles from the citizens without their consent, for the common defence; but in a time of peace and safety, such measures would be supposed unnecessary. Instances may be multiplied in other respects; but it is conceived that these are sufficient to show that the popular and general meaning of the word "necessary," varies according to the subject and circumstances.

The second rule of interpretation relates to the context, and the Judge conceives that "if words are still dubious, we may establish their meaning by the context; thus the preamble is often called in to help the construction of an act of Parliament." The constitution, in the present case, is the great law of the people, who are themselves the sovereign Legislature, and the preamble is in these words: "We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America."

These are the objects for which the constitution was established, and in administering it we should always keep them in view. And here it is remarkable, that although the common defence and general welfare are held up in the preamble among the primary objects of attention, they are again mentioned in the eighth section of the first article, whereby we are enjoined in levying taxes, duties, &c., particularly to regard the common defence and general welfare; indeed common sense dictates the measure; for the security of our property, families, and liberty--of every thing dear to us, depends on our ability to defend them. The means, therefore, for attaining this object, we ought not to omit a year, month, or even a day, if we could avoid it; and we are never provided for defence unless prepared for sudden emergencies. Should Government be surprised in this case, it would be as dishonorable as for a general to be surprised in a state of warfare, and the event to the community may be much more fatal. If provision then for sudden emergencies is indispensable, it must be evident that it will depend in a great measure on the ability of the Government to command, at all times, for this purpose, a sufficient sum of money, which is justly denominated the sinews of war; and how is this to be effected? By emissions of bills of credit? During the Revolution, bills of credit, it must be acknowledged, have done wonders; they have, in conflict with the banks, Treasury, and public credit of Great Britain, risen superior to them all, and have since died a natural death. We have honored them with a funeral pile; we now bid peace to their manes, and devoutly hope that bills of credit will for ever be extinct in the United States. Are we to depend, then, on taxes for commanding money in cases of urgent necessity? These, as has been shown by other gentlemen, will be too slow in their operations, unless, indeed, we should levy a tax for drawing into and locking up in the Treasury three or four millions of dollars; a law which would be universally considered as unnecessary and improper.

By loans, and loans only, can provision be made for sudden emergencies; but if loans should be made previously to an emergency, the people would be unnecessarily burdened by the interest thereof, and most of the other evils would ensue that would arise from previous taxes; and if they were to be made at an emergency, without previous arrangements, of whom are we to borrow? Of individuals? These cannot be depended on, as has been fully proved by our own experience at the commencement of the Revolution. Are we to apply to the banks already established in the States for loans? These can no more be depended upon than individuals; for stockholders having not more attachment to Government than other citizens, would, in cases of public danger, attend to the preservation of their property by other means than loaning it to Government. And moreover, the united capitals of all the banks existing in the Union would be insufficient for Government, for they do not amount to a million and a half of dollars, and only a part in this could, in any case, be reasonably expected on loan.

Are we to apply to foreign banks or individuals? These, as has been shown, are too remote; and if not, we have not been able, without the assistance of an ally, to obtain foreign loans during the war, and perhaps the power on whose assistance we may rely would be hostile to us. Such dependence, then, as has been stated, would necessarily leave us in a deplorable state; and it must be evident that a previous arrangement to aid loans in cases of sudden emergency is necessary and proper in the general and popular use of the term, inasmuch as any other measure that Congress can adopt would be inadequate to the purpose of common defence; and what previous arrangement can we make so proper as that of a National Bank? If gentlemen in the opposition know of any, let them produce it, and let the merits of it be investigated; for it is unreasonable to propose a rejection of this plan without producing a better. The plan proposed by the Secretary of the Treasury, which is now the subject of discussion, does honor, like all his other measures, to his head and heart; it will be mutually beneficial to the stockholders and to Government, and consequently so to the people. The stockholders by this plan will be deeply interested in supporting Government; because three-quarters of their capital, consisting of funded certificates, depend on the existence of Government, which therefore is the prop of their capital, the main pillar that supports the bank. Again, the credit of Government, which is immaterial to the other banks, is essential to the National Bank, for the annual interest of three-quarters of its capital, which must form a great share of its profits, will depend altogether on the credit of Government, and produce, on the part of the stockholders, the strongest attachment to it. On the other hand, it will be the interest of Government to support the Bank, as well on account of the benefits which the public will generally derive from the institution, and the profits arising from the shares of Government in the stock which will be hereafter noticed, as of the supplies of money which it will be for the interest of the Bank to furnish in cases of urgent necessity. Whenever these exist, Congress may lay a tax for supplying the Treasury, and anticipate it with certainty by means of the National Bank. It being then our duty to provide for the common defence in cases of emergency, the provision must evidently be made by taxes, loans, or by arrangements for obtaining the latter on the earliest notice; and previous taxes and loans being oppressive, improper, and unnecessary, the arrangements for aiding loans become indispensable, and a bank consequently necessary and constitutional.

The third rule of the Judge, relative to the "subject-matter" of a law, it is unnecessary to apply, because the members agree in their ideas relative to the meaning of the terms taxes, duties, loans, &c.

The fourth rule, which relates to "effects and consequences," is important; and here the learned Judge observes that "as to effects and consequences, the rule is, where the words bear none, or a very absurd signification, if literally understood, we must a little deviate from the received sense of them." In the present case, the gentlemen in the opposition generally, as well as the gentleman first up from Virginia, give the whole clause by which Congress are authorized "to make all laws necessary and proper," &c., no meaning whatever; for they say, the former Congress had the same power under the Confederation without this clause as the present Congress have with it. The Federalist is quoted on this occasion, but although the author of it discovered great ingenuity, this part of his performance I consider as a political heresy. His doctrine, indeed, was calculated to lull the consciences of those who differed in opinion with him at that time; and having accomplished his object, he is probably desirous that it may die with the opposition itself. The rule in this case says, that where the words bear no signification, we must deviate a little; and as this deviation cannot be made by giving the words less than no meaning, it must be made by a more liberal construction than is given by gentlemen in the opposition. Thus their artillery is turned on themselves, for their own interpretation is an argument against itself.

The last mentioned rule relates to the spirit and reason of the law, and the Judge is of opinion "that the most universal and effectual way of discovering the true meaning of a law, when the words are dubious, is by considering the reason and spirit of it, or the cause which moved the Legislature to enact it". The causes which produced the constitution were an imperfect union, want of public and private justice, internal commotions, a defenceless community, neglect of the public welfare, and danger to our liberties. These are known to be the causes not only by the preamble of the constitution, but also from our own knowledge of the history of the times that preceded the establishment of it. If these weighty causes produced the constitution, and it not only gives power for removing them, but also authorizes Congress to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying these powers into effect, shall we listen to assertions that these words have no meaning, and that this constitution has not more energy than the old? Shall we thus unnerve the Government, leave the Union, as it was under the Confederation, defenceless against a banditti of Creek Indians, and thus relinquish the protection of its citizens? Or shall we, by a candid and liberal construction of the powers expressed in the constitution, promote the great and important objects thereof? Each member must determine for himself; I shall without hesitation choose the latter, and leave the people and States to determine whether or not I am pursuing their true interest. If it is inquired where we are to draw the line of a liberal construction, I will also inquire where the line of restriction is to be drawn? The interpretation of the constitution, like the prerogative of a sovereign, may be abused; but from hence the disuse of either cannot be inferred. In the exercise of prerogative the minister is responsible for his advice to his sovereign, and the members of either House are responsible to their constituents for their conduct in construing the constitution. We act at our peril; if our conduct is directed to the attainment of the great objects of Government, it will be approved, and not otherwise; but this cannot operate as a reason to prevent our discharging the trusts reposed in us.

Let us now compare the different modes of reasoning on this subject, and determine which is right, for both cannot be.

The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) has urged the dangerous tendency of a liberal construction; but which is most dangerous, a liberal or a destructive interpretation? The liberty we have taken in interpreting the constitution, we conceive to be necessary, and it cannot be denied to be useful in attaining the objects of it; but whilst he denies us this liberty, he grants to himself a right to annul a part, and a very important part of the constitution. The same principle that will authorize a destruction of part, will authorize the destruction of the whole of the constitution; and if gentlemen have a right to make such rules, they have an equal right to make others for enlarging the powers of the constitution, and indeed of forming a despotism. Thus, if we take the gentleman for our pilot, we shall be wrecked on the reef which he cautions us to avoid.

The gentleman has referred us to the last article of the amendments proposed to the constitution by Congress, which provides that the powers not delegated to Congress, or prohibited to the States, shall rest in them or the people; and the question is, what powers are delegated? Does the gentleman conceive that such only are delegated as are expressed? If so, he must admit that our whole code of laws is unconstitutional. This he disavows, and yields to the necessity of interpretation, which, by a fair and candid application of established rules of construction to the constitution, authorizes, as has been shown, the measure under consideration.

The usage of Congress has also been referred to; and if we look at their acts under the existing constitution, we shall find they are generally the result of a liberal construction. I will mention but two. The first relates to the establishment of the Executive Departments, and gives to the President the power of removing officers. As the constitution is silent on this subject, the power mentioned, by the gentleman's own reasoning, is vested in the States or the people; he, however, contended for an assumption of the power, and when assumed, urged that it should be vested in the President, although, like the power of appointment, it was by a respectable minority in both Houses conceived that it should have been vested in the President and Senate. His rule of interpretation then was therefore more liberal than it is now. In the other case, Congress determined by law, with the sanction of the President, when and where they should hold their next session, although the constitution provides that this power should rest solely in the two Houses. The gentleman also advocated this measure, and yet appears to be apprehensive of the consequences that may result from a construction of the constitution which admits of a National Bank. But from which of these measures is danger to be apprehended? The only danger from our interpretation would be the exercise by Congress of a general power to form corporations; but the dangers resulting from the gentleman's interpretations, in the cases alluded to, are very different; for what may we not apprehend from the precedent of having assumed a power on which the constitution was silent, and from having annexed it to the Supreme Executive? If we have this right in one instance, we may extend it to others, and make him a despot. And here I think it necessary to declare, that such is my confidence in the wisdom, integrity, and justice of the Chief Magistrate, as that I should be at ease, if my life, liberty, and property were at his disposal; but this is a trust which I am not authorized to make for my constituents; and as his successors in office will possess equal powers, but may not possess equal virtues, caution with respect to them is necessary. Again, what may be the result of the precedent relating to the session of Congress? If we had a right by law to determine where the next Congress should hold their session, one Congress may oblige another to sit in Kentucky, or in the intended State Yazoo, under the protection of a Choctaw chief, or his Excellency, Governor Tallan. It must therefore be evident that the usage of Congress in both instances is against the gentleman, and that the dangers from the precedent of establishing a bank are comparatively small to those resulting from the other measures referred to.

The gentleman from Virginia has endeavored to support his interpretation of the constitution by the sense of the Federal Convention; but how is this to be obtained? By applying proper rules of interpretation? If so, the sense of the Convention is in favor of the bill; or are we to depend on the memory of the gentleman for a history of their debates, and from thence to collect their sense? This would be improper, because the memories of different gentlemen would probably vary, as they had already done, with respect to those facts; and if not, the opinions of the individual members who debated are not to be considered as the opinions of the Convention. Indeed, if they were, no motion was made in that Convention, and therefore none could be rejected for establishing a National Bank; and the measure which the gentleman has referred to was a proposition merely to enable Congress to erect commercial corporations, which was, and always ought to be, negatived.

The gentleman's arguments respecting the sense of the State Conventions have as little force as those relating to the Federal Convention. The debates of the State Conventions, as published by the short-hand writers, were generally partial and mutilated; in this, if the publications are to be relied on, the arguments were all on one side of the question; for there is not in the record, which is said to contain the Pennsylvania debates, a word against the ratification of the constitution; although we all know that arguments were warmly urged on both sides.

The gentleman has quoted the opinions, as recorded in the debates of this State and North Carolina, of two of our learned judges; but the speech of one member is not to be considered as expressing the sense of a convention; and if it was, we have no record which can be depended on of such speeches. Indeed, had even this been the case, the Union was at that time divided into two great parties, one of which feared the loss of the Union if the constitution was not ratified unconditionally, and the other the loss of our liberties if it was. The object on either side was so important as perhaps to induce the parties to depart from candor, and to call in the aid of art, flattery, professions of friendship, promises of office, and even good cheer; and when these failed, the Federal Bull was published, denouncing political death and destruction to anti-federal infidels. Under such circumstances, the opinions of great men ought not to be considered as authorities, and in many instances could not be recognized by themselves.

Mr. G. then observing that the sense of the States respecting a bank would be best ascertained by their legislative acts, showed, from the journals of Congress, that when restrained by the Confederation from exercising any powers but what were expressly delegated, Congress had, without any authority, established a bank whose capital might extend to ten millions of dollars; and had not only pledged the faith of the Union not to erect any other, but had recommended it to the States to prohibit any State establishment of the kind, and had also determined that the bank bills should be receivable in the taxes and duties of every State. That the States did not remonstrate against, or tacitly acquiesce in, but actually supported the measures of Congress relative to the bank, whilst the war continued, and after the peace. That this was the strongest evidence the States could give that they thought the measure salutary, and had no objection to it on the ground of its being unconstitutional. He then urged, that if the States and the people at large had no objection to a bank in that case, they could not in this; and inquired whether there was any evidence of their disapprobation of such an institution in the debates of their Conventions or propositions for amendments? To this he answered in the negative, and urged, that whilst the Conventions were silent on the subject, and had no objections to such a measure, several of them had proposed amendments to the constitution for restraining Congress from establishing commercial corporations; which evinced their disapprobation of such institutions, and admitted at the same time, in some degree, the power of Congress, under the existing constitution, to form them.

Mr. G. then showed, that as a monopoly had been urged as an objection to the bill, no such consequence could result from it; for the bill does not restrain State or private banks, or even individuals, from negotiations of a similar nature with those permitted to the stockholders; nor does it restrain the States from forming similar corporations. This plan has not a feature of monopoly, and the gentlemen who oppose it contend for a bank which, according to its original institution, was founded in monopoly.

He then answered the arguments urged against the authority of Congress to enable corporations to hold lands, when they had no power themselves of purchasing and holding land; and showed, that although Congress are restrained from purchasing lands, (except in certain cases,) and from exercising over the same exclusive legislation, yet that they may hold lands obtained by execution, conquest, and by other means as well as by those clauses of the constitution which relate to lands now belonging to the Union; and that Congress had often invested others with powers which they themselves could not exercise.

He then noticed the argument, that, by a law of Virginia, notes payable to the bearer, or order, would not circulate in that State, and observed that this law could not be supposed to extend to bank notes; and if it did, it would be null and void, because the constitution of the Union, and laws, made in pursuance thereof, were paramount to the laws and constitutions of the several States. Having considered the arguments against the constitutionality of the bill, he entered into the policy and utility of the measure.

TUESDAY, February 8.

Bank of the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the bill for incorporating the Bank of the United States.

The question still being on the passage of the bill,

Mr. VINING apologized for rising to offer his sentiments on this subject, which had been already so ably discussed; but considering the nature of the objections as arising from constitutional principles, it had acquired an importance which would justify his troubling the House with some remarks.

He began by noticing the leading argument of Mr. MADISON respecting the sense of the Continental Convention on the power proposed to be exercised by Congress in this bill. He showed that the opinion of the gentleman, in this instance, was, if not singular, different from that of his contemporaries; at least a similar objection had not been started by those gentlemen of the Senate, who had been members of the Convention; but granting that the opinion of the gentleman from Virginia had been the full sense of the members of the Convention, their opinion at that day, he observed, is not a sufficient authority by which for Congress at the present time to construe the constitution.

Mr. V., in explaining the powers proposed by the bill to be given to the corporation of the Bank, adverted to the particular power of "making rules and regulations not contrary to law." He showed that this term law means the common law; and alluded to the inquiry of Mr. MADISON, as to what law was intended by this clause, who, in answering his own question, said, "that if the laws of the United States were intended, the power contemplated was dangerous and unconstitutional, as those laws were very few in number."

Mr. V. observed, that the restriction contended for by the gentleman as the result of his objection, would annihilate the most essential rights and privileges of the citizens of the United States. He then observed, a corporation is nothing more than constituting a body with powers to effect certain objects in a combined capacity, which an individual may do in his individual capacity, agreeable to the usage and customs of common law.

Adverting to the act by which the United States became a free and independent nation, he said, from that declaration, solemnly recognized at home and abroad, they derive all the powers appertaining to a nation thus circumstanced, and consequently the power under consideration. He traced the origin of corporations to the time of Numa, the first of which was for agricultural purposes; they were afterwards extended to other objects; and from that day to this, all civilized and independent nations have been in the practice of creating them; and what do they amount to but this--enabling a number of persons, in a combined capacity, to do that to a more certain effect than an individual may do; but subject to the control of common law, in all its regulations and transactions.

On the doctrine of construction, as applied to the constitution, he observed, that on some occasions the constitution is like the sensitive plant, which shrinks from the smallest touch; on others it is like the sturdy oak, which braves the force of thunder. He referred to the act containing the power of removability; in which the utmost latitude of construing the constitution was contended for and adopted; and, said he, the funding system cannot be defended on any other principle than of implication.

He then inquired, of what right does this incorporation deprive a single citizen? And can an act possibly meet the disapprobation of a single person which does not infringe his rights, and which puts money into his pocket? I think not. He insisted that the power of Congress alone was equal to establishing a bank competent to creating a currency which shall pervade all parts of the Union; the paper of the State banks cannot circulate beyond the bounds of the particular States.

From the restrictions to the Government contended for by the opposers of the bill, he compared the constitution to a horse finely proportioned in every respect to the eye, and elegantly caparisoned, but deficient in one, and the most essential requisite, that of ability to carry the owner to his journey's end; he had rather, he said, mount the old Confederation, and drag on in the old way, than be amused with the appearance of a Government so essentially defective.

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