Report from the Select Committee on Steam Carriages

Front matter

Report

from the

Select Committee

Appendix A

Appendix.

Appendix (A.)

Answers to Queries submitted by the Committee to Mr. John Macneil.

Query 1.—What is the greatest weight, in proportion to its own weight, which any Locomotive Steam Engine has been found capable of drawing upon a Rail Road, and at what velocity?

In the first edition of Mr. Nicholas Wood's Treatise on Rail Roads, published in 1820, he states that a Locomotive Engine, weighing 6½ tons, and containing one ton of water equal to 7½ tons, dragged twelve loaded Carriages, each weighing 9,408 lbs. up a plane ascending 134 inches in 1,164 feet, and also the conveying Carriage, weighing 1½ tons, the wheels not slipping, the rails dry.

He also gives the following experiments made on the Killingworth Rail Road:—The length of plane was 2,260 yards, with an ascent in one direction of 6 feet 5 inches, not uniform, varying from a dead level, or slightly undulating, to an ascent in one place of 1 in 330. Edge Rail, 2½ inches broad on the surface; Carriages all the same construction, weighing 81¼ cwt, each, wheels 34 inches diameter, axles 2 inches diameter.

Experiment 29.

Wheels, three feet, nine Carriages, weighing 731½ cwt., were drawn up the plane fourteen times in 317 minutes, and fourteen times down the plane in 258 minutes, distance traversed, 36 miles in 9 hours, 35 minutes; coals consumed, 2,534 lbs.; water, 800 gallons.

Experiment 30.

Wheels, four feet; nine Carriages, weighing 731½ cwt., were drawn ap the same plane nineteen times in 302 minutes, and nineteen times down the plane in 265 minutes, distance traversed, 48.8 miles in 9 hours, 27 minutes: coals consumed, 2,534 lbs.; water, 864 gallons.

Experiment 31.

Wheels, four feet; twelve Carriages, weighing 975 cwt, were drawn up the plane nine times in 155 minutes, and nine times down in 133 minutes. Distance traversed, 23 miles in 4 hours, 48 minutes, coals consumed, 1,548 lbs.; water, 452 gallons.

Experiment 32. (With a different Locomotive Engine.)

Wheels, 3nbfeet; nine Carriages, weighing 731¼ cwt, were drawn up the same plane ten times in 212 minutes, and ten times down in 180 minutes. Distance, 26 miles; time, 6 hours, 32 minutes; coals consumed, 1,487 lbs.: water, 490 gallons.

Experiment 33.

Wheels, four feet; twelve Carriages, weighing 975 cwt., were drawn up the plane five times in 45 minutes 48 seconds, and five times down, in 40 minutes 26 seconds. Distance each journey, 2002 yards. Total, 11.375 miles; distance passed over in the above time 1,663 yards each journey, or 9.45 miles, time, 1 hour, 28 minutes, 14 seconds; coals consumed, 587 lbs,; water 200 gallons.

In this experiment the Engine was allowed to traverse a given space, to put the train of carriage into their proper velocity before the time was noted, the time was then marked until the velocity was again checked at the further end of the stage. This will explain the difference between the two distances stated in the experiment; the one was the whole distance from the commencement to the cat

distance from Liverpool to Manchester, in 2 hours and 34 minutes, including 13 minutes of stoppages. The diameter of the wheels was 4 feet 6 inches.

On the 19th of April 1831, Mr. Locke stated, that “The Samson" drew up the inclined plane at Rainhill about 44% tons gross of goods and waggons, at the rate of about eight miles an hour.

Weight of the Engine was 83 tons; weight of tender (which was full of water), 4 tons; making the total weight of Goods, Waggons, Engine, and Tender, 57 tons; and, calculating the speed of the Engine eight miles per hour, she was exerting a force equal to 39 horse power.

He also stated, that a new Engine, "The Jupiter," had just been started. From the 4th of March to 6th of April, she drew 226 Waggons (only 10 of which were empty) and 847 Coaches, a total distance of 3,426 miles. In one fortnight she made 50 journies, equal to 1500 miles.

Diameter of cylinder, 11 inches; length of stroke, 16 inches; diameter of the wheels, 5 feet. Value of such an Engine, £700.

Appendix B

Appendix (B.)

Proposed Scale for Turnpike Tolls on Steam Carriages.

Above this weight an arbitrary toll, preventing its exceeding it on narrow Wheels.

If the Tires of the Wheels exceed Three inches, the Tolls should be about one quarter less, and the weight without injury, may extend to three tons and a half. If the Tires of the Wheels are Six inches wide, the Tolls should be about a third less, and the weight allowed to extend as far as four or five Tons.

Appendix F

Parts On which the Experiments were Tried. | Number of Observations. | Rate of Inclination. | Header text | Correction for the Rate of Inclination. | Header text | Observations. All these Experiments were made in the middle of the month of March 1830, during dry weather.

Between brick house and road to Northampton | 7 | rise, 1 in 21 | 292 | 112 | 180 | 5½ inches limestone, high hedges, and bank on south-west.

Over small embankment above brickhouse | 22 | rise, 1 in 22¾ | 343 | 103 | 240 | 6 inches limestone, high hedges, new stone, on a week.

Between sand pits and road to Stowe | 23 | rise, 1 in 39 | 128 | 66½ | 67½ | 6 inches limestone, open and low fences.

| Between road to Stowe and the Angel inn | 37 | rise, 1 in 71½ | 95 | 33 | 62 | 5 inches limestone, open wide space between, low fences.

Between hollow and 66th milestone | 70 | rise, 1 in 31 | 130 | 76 | 54 | 3½ inches of Hartshill, and 2 inches of limestone, on pitching.

Between 66th mile-stone and summit of hill | 80 | rise, 1 in 26 | 145 | 91 | 54 | 3 inches ditto ditto, over embankment.

Rising next hill | 60 | rise, 1 in 50 | 90 | 47 | 34 | 5 in ditto, ditto, through cutting.

Extract from Mr. Telford's Report on the State of the Holyhead and Liverpool Roads.

Being authorized by the Commissioners to have the Machine invented by my assistant, by Mr. Macneill, (for measuring the force of traction, or the labour of horses in drawing carriages) completed, and also to have the several Districts of the Holyhead Road in England tried by it; Mr. Macneill has done so, and prepared a Statement, showing the results of the trials between London and a distance os 153¼ Miles.

The general Results of these Experiments on different sorts of Roads, are as follows:

1.— | On a well made pavement, the draught is | 33 lbs

2.— | On a broken stone surface, on old flint Road | 65

3.— | On a gravel Road | 147

4.— | On a broken stone Road, upon a rough pavement foundation | 46

5.— | On a broken stone surface upon a bottoming of concrete formed of Parker's cement and gravel | 46

The general Results of Experiments made with a Stage Coach, on the same piece of Road, on different Inclinations and at different Rates of Velocity, are given, from which

The following Statement has been calculated:—

Rate of Inclination. | Rates of Travelling. | Force Required.

1 in 20 | 6 miles per hour. | 268 lbs.

1 in 26 | 6 | 213

1 in 30 | 6 | 165

1 in 40 | 6 | 160

1 in 600 | 6 | 111

1 in 20 | 8 | 296

1 in 26 | 8 | 219

1 in 30 | 8 | 196

1 in 40 | 8 | 166

1 in 600 | 8 | 120

1 in 20 | 10 | 318

1 in 26 | 10 | 225

1 in 30 | 10 | 200

1 in 40 | 10 | 172

1 in 600 | 10 | 128

Having the results of these accurate trials to refer to, leaves it no longer a matter of conjecture in what manner a Road should be made, to accomplish most effectually the main object, that is, diminishing to the greatest possible degree the labour of Horses in draught.

Although the observations of scientific persons have lead to nearly similar conclusions, others have been in the habit down rules for Road-making at variance with all the established laws of motion; it is satisfactory to be able to produce a positive Proof by actual Experiment, of their opinions being wholly erroneous.

In this view, I consider Mr. Macneill's Invention for practical purposes on a large scale, one of the most valuable that has been lately given to the Public.

The End

Farey

Mercuri, 10e die Augusti, 1831.

John Farey, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

Have the goodness to state your profession?—I am an Engineer.

How long have you been so?—It is twenty-five years since I began my studies; I have been much employed by inventors, to assist them in bringing forward new inventions of a mechanical nature, and in establishing them as practical businesses, when they have been sufficiently perfect to admit of so doing.

Have you turned your attention to the subject of propelling Stage Coaches or other Carriages by Steam Power on common roads, instead of by horses?—I have had occasion to prepare specifications of several such inventions for which Patents have been taken out, and have in consequence paid a close attention to that subject; I have also been consulted to settle the plans for the practical execution of Steam Coaches, but I have not directed or superintended any such execution myself. Of the specifications I have prepared, three have been followed up by building Coaches, which have actually travelled on common roads; viz. Mr. Gurney's. Mr. Hancock's, and Messrs. Heaton's; I believe those three are the only trials amongst many others which have had so much success as to have been persisted in to the present time. I have examined other Steam Coaches, but

they had no chance of success, and have been abandoned.

Will you state generally your opinion as to the probability of this mode of propelling Carriages super seding the necessity of using horses?—All that has been hitherto done, or which is now doing, in that way, must, I think, be considered as experimentaltrials. I have no doubt whatever but that a steady perseverance in such trials will lead to the general adoption of Steam Coaches, and that at an earlier or later period, according to the activity and intelligence with which an experimental course is conducted; and I am firmly convinced that the perfection which is essential to their successful adoption will never be attained by any other course than that of reiterated trials. The difficulties with which the Steam Coach inventors are at present contending are chiefly of a practical nature, which, I think, are not likely to be avoided by any great efforts of genius or invention; but I expect that they may be surmounted one after another by the experience which may be gained by competent mechanicians in a course of practice. I do not look for much more invention as necessary to the establishment of Steam Coaches; but it is certain that the practice is indispensable. Each of the three inventors I have named has brought his Steam Coach to that state which renders it a full-sized model for making such experiments as serve to prove the principle of action, and to teach how a better Coach may be made the next time, but nothing more. The probability that such next better coach will be sufficiently perfect to answer as a trading business, depends as much upon the natural judgment and acquired skill of each inventor, as upon the qualifications of his present production.

Has the experience which has already been had of Steam Carriages been such as to enable us to say that it is not merely in theory we have calculated on these Carriages?—Yes; what has been done by the above mentioned inventors, proves to my satisfaction the practicability of impelling Stage Coaches by Steam on good common roads, in tolerable level parts of the country, without horses, at a speed of eight or ten miles an hour. The Steam Coaches I have tried, have made very good progress along the road, but have been very deficient in strength, and consequently in permanency of keeping in repair, also in accommodation for passengers and for luggage; for which reasons they are none of them models to proceed upon to build Coaches as matter of business, From the complexity of their structures and the multiplicity of pieces of which they are composed, it is impracticable to give them the requisite strength by mere addition of materials, because they would then be too heavy to carry profitable loads as stage coaches. I do not consider That it is now a question of theory, for the practicability I conceive to be proved; but many details of execution, which are necessary to a successful practice, are yet in a very imperfect state. My view of the subject will be best understood by stating, that I believe an efficient Steam Carriage might now be made merely to carry despatches, by following the general plan of the best Steam Coach which has yet been produced, improving the proportions wherever experience has shown them to be faulty, using the very best workmanship and materials, and giving a judicious increase of strength to the various parts which require it, allowing all the weight of a load of passengers and luggage, and of the accommodations for them, in additional strength of materials, so that the total weight of the Coach, without any passengers or goods (beyond the people and stores necessary for its own use and one courier), should be as much as the weight of the previous model containing a full load of passengers and luggage If three such Coaches were constructed, one of them might start every morning at each end of any fair line of road 100 or 120 miles long, and one would arrive every evening at each end of that line in less time than a common stage coach; and I should expect that, after twelve months' perseverance, and after making all the improvements and alterations in the machinery which so much experience would suggest, the double passage ought to be made with as much safety and punctuality, and with much more expedition, than by mail. The road between London and Bristol might be taken as a suitable line, but I should expect a pair of horses to be provided at every notable hill, to help the Steam Carriage up Such a proposition, it is obvious, offers no inducement to individuals, because it would be all expence without any return; but if it were judiciously done at public expence, I have no doubt but that it would lead to as much improvement in the mode of execution of future Coaches, as would enable them to be run permanently as stage coaches with profitable loads. The great defect of all the present models, is want of strength to resist the violence to which they are subjected in rapid travelling with a full load; and if that strength were given upon the present construction by the mere addition of materials, they would become too heavy to be efficiently propelled, even if they carried no load in them.

Have you seen the last Coaches of Mr. Gurney and of Mr. Hancock?—I have not minutely examined the last edition of Mr. Gurney's Carriage, but have met it several times on the roads in my neighbourhood, as I have also that of Mr. Hancock; and I have travelled in the latter; but he has enlarged the cylinders of his engine since I have gone in it.

You have seen Mr. Gurney's original boilers; he states that he has altered very little in the form of them?—Yes; I was well acquainted with the construction and performance of all that Mr. Gurney had attained at the time when I specified bis patent, three years ago; and I understand generally the alterations he has since made, though I have not made trial of any of his more recent coaches; the principal change is in separating the engine and machinery from the Carriage which is to convey the passengers, so that there are two four-wheeled carriages, one drawing the other after it; this change involves no very great alteration in the machinery, which, I understand, is nearly the same as it was; but the impelling Carriage in which it is placed is very much lightened by transferring all the passengers to the additional carriage which is drawn. Mr. Hancock continues to follow the original plan of carrying the passengers in the same four-wheeled Carriage with the engine.

As far as your experience has gone, which plan of Steam Carriage do you think will hereafter be most generally resorted to, that of an Engine Carriage, drawing after it another Carriage containing the passengers, or of conveying the passengers in the Carriage in which the machinery is placed?—I have not had experience in drawing by two Carriages, except by the analogy of what is done on railways, and hence I feel some difficulty in speaking positively upon that point; there are advantages and disadvantages to be considered in both modes, but all the mechanical considerations incline to one side, viz. to place the engines in the same Carriage with the passengers; that plan will certainly be lighter than when two separate Carriages are used, and also the weight will be laid on those wheels which are turned by the engines, as it should be, to give them a firmer adherence to the road; also one Carriage will steer and turn much better than two, and will go safer down hill, and will be cheaper to build and to work.

By that means great weight is saved?—Yes; perhaps one-third is saved in exerting an equal power. In stating my opinion of the probability of a profitable result, after twelve months' trial of three coaches to run regularly two hundred miles every day, with despatches only, I contemplated that the engines and passengers would be ultimately in one Carriage, because that plan has a most decided mechanical advantage in making progress along the road, and also in facility of steerage, and safety in going down hill, and fewer servants are required to manage one Carriage than two. On the other hand, all the constructions that have yet been tried with one Carriage, subject the passengers to more or less occasional annoyance from heat and noise, smoke and dust, and there is still an apprehension of danger from the boiler, hence passengers will invariably prefer to go in a separate Carriage to be drawn by the Engine carriage; that mode also offers a facility of changing the engine for another, or for post horses, in case it gets deranged, because the change may be made without unloading, and discomposing the passengers; for common stage coaches these are strong motives to use a separate Carriage, and if it can be brought to bear in comparison with horses, that mode will probably be most generally adopted by the influence of the passengers, although the other mode will inevitably perform the best and attain the greatest speed of travelling.

Taking the two machines of Mr. Gurney and Mr. Hancock in their present state, do you think them entirely free from defects likely to prove dangerous to travellers?—I do not think the danger is at all considerable in either Mr. Gurney's or Mr. Hancock's; there are dangers in all travelling; but I do not think the amount of danger will be at all increased by substituting steam for horses, according to either of those plans.

The question refers to the peculiar danger from the nature of the propelling power?—I am not inclined to think that there is any peculiar danger which would he incurred by the change; and if the engines and passengers are not on the same Carriage, I think the ordinary danger would on the whole he diminished.

The question is with reference to the relative danger of travelling ten miles an hour when drawn by horses, and when propelled by steam at the same rate?—The danger of being run away with and overturned is greatly diminished in a steam coach. It is very difficult to control four such horses as can draw a heavy stage coach ten miles an hour in case they are frightened, or choose to run away, and for such quick travelling they must be kept in that state of courage that they are always inclined for running away, particularly down hill, and at sharp turns in the road. The steam power has very little corresponding danger, being perfectly controllable, and capable of exerting its power in reverse, to retard in going down hill; it must be carelessness that would occasion the overturning of a Steam Carriage, which carries the passengers in the same Carriage with the engines. The distinct Carriage I consider to be much less controllable, in turning corners and going down hill, but yet far more so in horses. The chance of breaking down has hitherto been considerable, but it will not be more than usual in stage coaches, when the work is truly proportioned and properly executed. The risk of explosion of the boilers is the only new cause of danger, and that I consider not equivalent to the danger from the horses. There have been, for several years past, a number of locomotive engines in constant use on railways, all of them having large high pressure boilers, very much more dangerous than Mr. Gurney's or Mr. Hancock's, whether we consider the probability of explosion, or the consequences likely to follow an explosion, because being of large diameters they are less capable of sustaining the internal pressure of the steam, and also they contain a large stock of confined steam and hot water, The instances of explosion among those locomotive engines have been very rare indeed.

Have you seen Mr. Hancock's last improvement?—I consider Mr. Hancock's boiler to be much better for Steam Coaches than any other which has been proposed or tried,

If that boiler were to explode it is understood that there would be no danger at all?—It is very difficult to foresee that; at the same time the risk of explosion in Mr. Hancock's boiler is certainly very much less than is the locomotive boilers, which are in constant use on a large scale on railways, and where we have proof that the extent of the danger is very small.

Do you think his boiler might explode without the passengers knowing any thing about it?—The metal plates of which the boiler is composed will burn through by the continuance of the action of the fire, and may crack or open so as to let the steam or water out of the boiler and disable the coach from proceeding, but that is hardly to be called an explosion; no one would be hurt; the crack which lets out the hot water is sure to throw it into the fire in that case, and not on the passengers.

You consider the danger to passengers by the chance of bursting of a boiler as not equivalent to the danger of horses running away?—It is not equivalent in my opinion, the probability of a coach being overturned by the horses is far greater than that of a boiler bursting, and when either accident does occur, the probable extent of mischief from an overturn in which all the passengers must participate, is much greater than could be expected from the bursting of a boiler, which must always be kept at a considerable distance from the passengers on account of the heat.

Supposing either Mr. Hancock's or Mr. Gurney's boiler were to burst; in the one case the boiler being in a separate Carriage, and in the other, the boiler being at a considerable distance behind the passengers, what danger do you think could arise to the passengers from the bursting of the boiler?—There is very little difference between the two cases; the separate Carriage obviates any apprehension that passengers could entertain from the danger of explosion, and will therefore be preferred by most passengers, but for myself I do not rate that risk so high as to be induced to encounter the complexity of the two Carriages, and to forego some of that new security which steain power offers by its controllability in descending hills and turning corners, compared with horses; and in which circumstance, as I have before stated, I think the plan of one Carriage is much to be preferred, and probably the other objections of heat and noise and dust may be overcome by some new means, which have not yet been shown ; in Mr. Hancock's Carriage the boiler is quite behind, and away from the passengers, so that they are out of danger, if there is any, and are not materially annoyed by heat or smoke and dust, except at times when the wind brings it forwards, and that rarely happens when the Coach is moving.

Is not the danger attendant on the bursting the boiler greatly diminished by the subdivision of its internal capacity into tubes or small and flattened chambers?—Unquestionably, until the danger of explosion has become exceedingly small; but the great difficulty of boilers for Steam Coaches is, that the liability to burn through the plates has been increased by that expedient for ensuring safety, and the progress of the invention has been impeded between those two difficulties in a greater degree than from any other circumstance. It was a desideratum for a long time to contrive a boiler, which being made of such thin metal as would not render it too heavy, should have sufficient strength to retain high pressure steam without danger of bursting; also that it should expose a sufficient external surface of metal to the fire and flame and of internal surface to the contained water, to enable the required quantity of steam to be produced from such a small body of water as could be carried on account of the weight, both these conditions were fulfilled by subdividing the contained water into small tubes or into flat chambers, which expose a great surface in proportion to their internal capacity, and admit of being made strong with thin metal, but there is also another condition which is rather incompatible with the two former; viz, that there shall be such a very free communication between the interior capacities of all the tubes or narrow spaces, as will combine them all into one capacity, and permit the contained water to run from one to another, and also permit the steam, which is generated in innumerable small bubbles within the narrow spaces, to get freely away from them, to go to the engines without accumulating and collecting into such large bubbles as would occupy the spaces and displace or drive out the water before them; for if that effect takes place it produces three great evils; the water boils over into the engines along with the steam and is wasted, and the thin metal which remains exposed at the outside to the fire, becomes burning hot in an instant, after the water is so driven away from the internal surface, and the further production of steam is suspended, so long as the water continues absent. If such displacement of the water takes place frequently, and in many of the narrow spaces at once, the boiler will not produce its proper quantity of steam, and the thin metal will soon be destroyed by the fire and burned through.

Have you seen Mr. Hancock's boiler?—Yes; I have had many trials of it; and I am well acquainted with Mr. Gurneys; the former uses flat chambers of thin iron plate standing edgways upwards over the fire in parallel vertical planes; the latter uses small tubes (such as gun barrels are made of,) to contain the water, the fire being applied on the outsides of the tubes. In Mr. Gurney's boiler I think the subdivision of the water into small spaces is carried too far, because the steam cannot get freely away out of such small tubes as he uses (and they are also of great length) without displacing much of water which ought always to be contained within them. By an ingenious arrangement of connecting pipes and vessels which he called Separators, be collects all the water which is so displaced along with the steam, and returns it again into the lower ends of the same tubes, and thus avoids the evil of water boiling over into the engines; but that makes only a partial remedy for the diminished production of steam, which is attendant on the absence of the water from the heated tubes, and the still greater mischief of burning and destroying the metal. Hence the evil of burning out the tubes is very great. Also his separators hold a considerable weight of water, from which no steam is generated; and they require to be heavy in metal, to render them quite safe and strong. Mr. Hancock has taken the middle course in subdividing the water in his boiler, having all that can be required for safety, and the weight I believe, on the whole, to be less than that which will produce the same power of steam; for, owing to the freedom with which the steam can get away in bubbles from the water without carrying water with it, the surface of the heated metal is never left without water. Hence a greater effect of boiling is attained from a given surface of metal and body of contained water, and that with a much greater durability of the metal plates, than I think will ever be obtained with small tubes.