Mexico 1926 : a stenographic report of the interviews obtained by the Alva W. Taylor Good Will Mission in the City of Mexico from July 28 to August 9, 1926

Preface

UNDER THE LEADERSHIP of Dr. Alva W. Taylor, secretary of the Board of Social Welfare of the Disciples of Christ, Indianapolis, Ind., a party of thirty-two persons from the United States arrived in the City of Mexico July 28, 1926, and remained until August 10, studying the problems of Mexico from every angle with the hope of promoting good will between the two great republic divided by the Rio Grande. The party was organized by Dr. Taylor in the winter and spring of 1926 without any thought of timing the visit to coincide with the religious crisis which reached a high point while the group was in the Mexican capital. Each member of the group paid his own expenses. All members of the group were Protestants; they came from fifteen states and various professions. Most of them were actively identified with Protestant religious enterprises, but each one went as an individual seek¬ ing facts and not as the official representative of any organization.

The members of the party were: Dr. Alva W. Taylor, Indianapolis; Miss Ruth Taylor, Indianapolis; Dr. Sidney L. Gulick, secretary of the commission an international justice and good will of the Federal Council of Churches of Christ in America, New York City; Dr. Miles H. Krumbine, pastor of the Parkside Lutheran church, Buffalo, and Mrs. Krumbine; Dr. Howard E. Jensen, professor of sociology in Butler University, Indianapolis, and Mrs. Jensen; Dr. Joseph C. Todd, dean of the School of Religion, Indiana University, Bloomington, and Mrs. Todd; Tolbert F. Reavis, professor in the School of Religion, Indiana University, Bloomington; Dr. J. W. Putnam, dean of Butler University, Indianapolis; F. F. Grim, dean of Atlantic Christian College, Wilson, N. C.; P. E. Baker, chaplain of Fisk University, Nashville, Tenn. ; Mrs. Mary W. Roe, missionary to the American Indians, Colony, Okla. ; H. E. Beckler, associate secretary of the Ohio Council of Churches, Madison, O.; Dr. Robert S. Holmes, director of forums, and Mrs. Holmes, Daytona Beach, Fla. ; Oliver C. Weist, pastor of First Community Church, Columbus, O.; John G. Fleck, pastor of a Lutheran church, Baltimore, Md. ; Charles Sebold, pastor of the Congregational church. Vernal, Utah, and Mrs. Sebold; D. Finley Wood, pastor of the Methodist Episcopal church, Zanesville, 0. ; Hugh Darsie, pastor of the church of the Disciples of Christ, Steubenville, O.; Howard Y. Williams, pastor of the People’s Church, St. Paul, Minn. ; W. O. Burgin, attorney, and Mrs. Burgin, Lexington, N. C. ; Lacy Simms, pastor of the Spanish mission church of the Presbyterian Church in the U. S. A., Chicago; Laurence D. Kohlmeyer, president of the Kolograph Company, manufacturer of portable moving picture machines, Indianapolis; Miss Anna M. Klingenhagen, dean of women, Oberlin College, Oberlin, O.; Miss Osee M. Dill, physician, Indianapolis; Dr. Francis M. Williams, physician, and mayor of Richmond, Ind.; Joseph Myers, Jr., managing editor of The Christian, a journal of religion, Kansas City, Mo.

Miss Catherine Duval Smith, director of \. W. C. A. work in the republic of Mexico for five years, and Dr. Andres Osuna, a member of the Carranza cabinet and a noted Mexican educator, were the official guides, interpreters and friends of the group in its course of study. Daniel Gish, a citizen of the United States, instructor in aviation for the Mexican army and a close friend of Senor Luis Morones, secretary of commerce and labor, aided in arranging interviews with Mexican governmental officials.

Following its two weeks’ study, the group approved and released to news¬ papers the following statement of findings:

“This group of thirty-two students from the United States has spent two weeks in an intensive study of the Mexican situation, covering the tense days , around August 1. We have interviewed representatives of labor, of education, of both Mexican and foreign business, of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, of the Protestant churches, and of the government. All have received us with courtesy and talked to us freely.

“We have seen no riots nor any signs of violence. We have searched for such in vain and could discover no disturbances beyond a few of minor type. We are assured by representatives of all groups, even those opposed to the government, that the Calles government is strong, is in full command of the situation, and that they anticipate no serious trouble.

“We believe a program of education and social reform is necessary to the rehabilitation of Mexico. Without passing judgment on details or on the methods used, we believe the Calles administration is engaged in a great program of social reform, and that all who are truly interested in the welfare of Mexico will cooperate in its essential undertakings.

“We believe that when the churches in Mexico accept, as they have done in the United States, the fundamental democratic principle that every in¬ dividual, irrespective of his religion, owes civic loyalty to the state rather than to the church, that the religious question will be settled in Mexico and that the church will prosper the more for it.”

The following pages contain the report by a public stenographer of the principal interviews obtained by the Taylor seminar group, and certain addi¬ tional matter regarded as necessary to an understanding of the present situa¬ tion in Mexico. It is hoped this pamphlet may supplement the individual ef¬ forts of the members of the group in promoting friendly relations between Mexico and the United States.

J. M.

The Views of President Calles

As THE CLIMAX of its study tour, the Taylor group was received by President Plutarco Elias Calles at Chapultepec Castle, the home of the President, Monday, August 9, at 12:30 P. M. The President dismissed formali¬ ties and answered questions from the group for about an hour. Dr. Andres Osuna was the interpreter. Following is a stenographic report of the inter¬ view:

CALLES: I am heartily pleased to receive this representative group from the United States. I am delighted to see you and to know that you have come to investigate conditions in Mexico, and to get first hand information so that you may be able to go back and inform the American public of the real conditions and about the reports that have been circulated by enemies of Mexico and enemies of my own administration. I am ready to enter into con¬ versation with you. I am also ready to answer any questions you may have, or do my best to answer them, regarding conditions of this country.

QUESTION: The charge is made constantly that the administration is anti-religious. We should like to have a statement from the President.

CALLES: The government on religious questions has no given tendency. To the Mexican government all religions are equally worthy of respect. All religions get equal protection and liberty. The opinion of the officials of the government is that all religions are good because they have a moral tendency. The difficulties in Mexico have been provoked by Mexican representatives of the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church. The Catholic clergy is an intoler¬ ant clergy. They think all ought to conform to their dogmas and ought not be allowed any other religion. At present they cannot do what they used to do. They cannot now persecute members of any other religion. Of course, the government of the Republic had to suppress the outrages of the Catholics. On the other hand, the Catholic clergy has always been trying to keep from obeying the laws. They have never been willing to obey any other authority than that of Rome. In that way they have been trying to make fun of the institutions of the country. What better ground, logically, could the govern¬ ment have had on which to take extreme and drastic measures to make them obey the law. The Catholic clergy has always had the tendency, not only here but in all pa,rts of the world — -but its action is more visible in Latin America- — to keep -the masses in the most absolute ignorance; it has only tried to make fanatics of these masses without ever being a factor in the moral and intellectual development of the people. The Catholic clergy throughout our history has had the tendency to absorb the economic resources of the country. During the period of Spanish domination and down to our days it has tried to absorb all our wealth. The clergy knows that in con¬ trolling the economic power of the country they control the political power also. Their efforts have always been towards keeping in their control the political power. It is this procedure of the Roman Catholic clergy that has wrought in our country the bloodiest struggles; the War of Three Years, the War of Reform, and many of the later revolutionary movements in Mexico had their origin in the clergy’s doings. Liberal ideas have triumphed and the economic and social revolution that is taking place in Mexico no longer tolerates the intrusion of the Catholic clergy in matters that are not properly spiritual.

QUESTION: We have been told both here and in the United States that in some cases the measures applied have been too radical.

CALLES: Point me out a concrete example. Have you any to tell me?

ANSWER: None.

CALLES: The Federal Constitution of the Republic, that is our basic law, establishes certain principles concerning the clergy, but nO' penalties had been fixed for those who were found to infringe against these principles. For example, the constitution forbids priests or ministers of any religion whatever to avail themselves of the pulpit to deliver sermons or addresses of a seditious character, but no penalty had been established by law with which to punish the trespass until very recently when the amendments to the penal law were enacted. Now the clergy protests against this law, evincing thereby its intention of violating it. If, at this moment, there were no regulations impos¬ ing penalties for robbery, would it be justifiable to protest against the enact¬ ment of a regulation establishing the penalty for such demeanor? Thieves would protest, but men with no intention of dedicating themselves to robbery would not do so ; that is to say, that protest would come only from law breakers. The Constitution of the Republic says that all acts of public worship are prohibited outside church edifices; and now the new penal law imposes a penalty on all those who violate this regulation. The clergy protest against this. Why? Undoubtedly because it has the intention of not fulfilling the law. Mexico has been forced to take these measures because of the experi¬ ence it has had during centuries. Pulpits have been used as platforms for seditious propaganda and that is where our internal wars have been fostered; and it is because of this the priests have been forbidden to make such bad use of their platforms. Acts of public worship outside of the church have been forbidden because they are means which the priests utilized to provoke dis¬ orders and riots. The Government of the Republic is obligated to have the Constitution respected and fulfilled. There cannot be any social class exempt from obedience to the law.

QUESTION: In case the priests admitted the Government was in the right and promised to comply with the law, would the measure be withdrawn?

CALLES: The law would continue in force, but if the clergy complied with its provisions there would not arise any difficulties nor would there be needed any application of the penalties established.

QUESTION : Some of us are ministers of religion. In our country

we use the pulpit to discuss political matters of general interest. Could the same thing be done in this country?

CALLES: In Mexico the law forbids anything in addresses or sermons of seditious, political character, for you must understand that in these Latin American countries where the clergy is not in power, it is always against the government.

QUESTION: We would like to know if priests can perform acts per¬ taining to their ministry in private houses according to the law.

CALLES: The Government is not interested in questions of beliefs or dogma. Within the church the clergy can perform whatever acts they may desire that are religious and spiritual in character, and within private houses they can also baptize and administer all existing sacraments, and any sacra¬ ments they may wish to invent.

QUESTION: In the United States ministers of religion cannot speak in the name of the church when dealing with subjects or matters that are not concerned with religion. When they speak of such matters they do so in their own name.

CALLES: Here it is not so. In Mexico the clergy, in order to attack the faw, do so in the name of their religion.

QUESTION: We have been informed that Protestant ministers are

violating the law as much as the Catholic priests and that the Catholic priests are struggling in behalf of all religions.

CALLES: That is not exact. It is a lie. The Protestants are strictly complying with the law.

QUESTION: In case there should come as viistors to Mexico any Protes¬ tant ministers, would they be allowed to exercise their ministry within the churches?

CALLES: No. I will explain to you why. Superficially looked at, this appears as a too radical measure, but we have been forced to enact a law general in character. Foreign clergy, especially of the Roman Catholic persua¬ sion, have been a veritable calamity to our people. Thousands of priests have been sent to us from Europe, especially of Spanish and Italian nationality; these priests have been the scum of the clergy — what the Europeans them¬ selves have not wanted to bear with. They have come to this country with the purpose only of exploiting us; they have come to make fanatics of the common people, and have tried by every possible means to maintain the masses in ignorance; they have come attempting to absorb the economic power of the country, to take from the nation all the money they can, which they carry to Europe; they have always tried to interfere with the internal affairs of the country; they have never been factors of cooperation for the forward movement of the people; they have never cooperated for the moral develop¬ ment of the nation. Confronted by this invasion of contaminating elements the nation has found it necessary to take preventive measures. The law has had to be general in character, hence we could not specify that certain foreign ministers could exercise their ministry in Mexico.

QUESTION: Have the Protestant ministers expressed to you that they are in accord with the Government’s program? Have they expressed to you their willingness to comply with the laws?

CALLES: Yes, they have made me such expressions, not only here but from the United States as well. I have received from them copies of orders that their higher officials have issued, commanding Protestant ministers to comply with the Mexican laws.

QUESTION: We would like to know the program of the Mexican govern¬ ment for social development.

CALLES: With much pleasure. I am very glad that you ask me con¬ cerning this matter. The Mexican Government’s program is very intricate and very difficult to carry out, but we are working towards its realization with great faith — in this sense I am fanatical. Its most difficult point is that which refers to the popular classes, meaning by this the workers both of the city and of the country, especially the latter who are chiefly Indians. The peasant masses of the country have been since the colonial epoch until a short time ago under conditions of slavery; we can almost say they did not own the air they breathed. Land property in Mexico was held by the Conquerors and this property has been handed down among them from generation to generation so that the owners of the land have been only a few privileged mortals, while the millions of human beings that live in the fields have been subjected to a condition of slavery. These poor peasants have not owned the land on which to build their homes nor even the two yards in which to be buried. The land holders, and the clergy fits in here, have maintained them always in ignorance. Tte clergy has always sided with the mighty ones of the earth and have never been friends of the humble ones as Jesus commanded. Wages that have been paid in the haciendas to the tillers of the land have been so miserable that they have not sufficient to satisfy the necessities of the stomach. The pig of

— the hacendado (land owner) has been better fed than the peones (farm hand serfs) who work from sunrise to sunset, for those wages have been from fifteen to eighteen centavos (7% to 9 cents American) a working day. Earn¬ ing only this, it has been impossible for them to meet the food requirements for themselves and their families. The government which arose from the Mexican Revolution has made every effort to aid the peasant classes and, therefore, laws have been enacted to give the Indian pueblos the lands they have needed for their lives’ sakes. We desire that these poor Indians who were slaves may be freed from such a pitiful condition and become small land owners. Not only that, but the government has realized that the problem was not solved with the giving of lands as the only measure, and so the financial question has also been tackled through the organization of a financial organization. As the peones were in direst poverty, they had not the where¬ withal! for starting to work and making the land given them by the govern¬ ment fruitful. We established then banks for financing those who had been given land by the government, with the National Bank of Agricultural Credit as the central unit. These banks are entrusted with obtaining for the peasants farming implements, machinery and the necessary livestock. At the same time, much attention is being given to the social organization of these masses. Young people especially trained for this work in the government schools are organizing the former peones into cooperative groups to free them from being economically exploited. In this manner we desire to attain to the economic independence of the peasants, because we believe that first and prime atten¬ tion should be given to the exigencies of the stomach. But at the same time

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we are developing a very intense cultural effort. We are establishing schools in all centers of population, no matter how small they are, because we believe that it is absolutely indispensable to raise the intellectual level of the people, especially of the working people, this being the best help that can be given the masses, and the best way of making ours a great and respected people. The Government’s program calls for a thousand additional schools every year throughout the Republic. This year we opened a thousand schools above the number that were functioning last year and in next year’s budget we are taking care of a thousand schools besides those that are now in operation. My idea is that wherever people have settled down, wherever there are twenty resident children or more, there should be a public school. This work we are carrying on in the country is matched by the effort we are likewise making in the cities, where we are giving special attention to the laboring classes, be¬ cause it is my belief that it is these classes who need most immediate help, considering that the well-to-do can defend themselves. In this country, labor organization has developed intensely within the last few years; almost all the trades are unionized, and the government is making an effort to make possible for these organizations to have the benefit of acquiring all possible culture. Schools and libraries have been established, especially in the trade unions, and educational lectures are being given constantly to them. This very important work has made possible already the great evolution that has taken place in the minds of the working classes, who have advanced ideas. You can see for your¬ selves that Mexican labor is backing the program and the policies of the Govern¬ ment. As I said before, the fulfillment of this program is very difficult be¬ cause everything has to be done for the first time. Out' task is arduous. We' are in a period of development, of growth. The Government’s chief aim has been the economic independence of the country. We have overlooked no effort that we can make-, that can be effective, towards having Mexico become a self-sufficient country. The struggle to attain this is intense, but after two* years of such work we find ourselves near the realization of our purpose.'

The Government budget is well balanced, the Government is fulfilling its obli¬ gations, both domestic and foreign; the Government is opening highways and carrying out large irrigation works; the irrigation planned calls for the re¬ habilitation of a million hectares of land. This plan will be a reality in four years at the latest and thereafter Mexico will be in condition to produce not only all that is required for its own life but also a surplus with which to come to the aid of other peoples. We have achieved the complete reorganization of our finances, with the result that we have now all the resources we need for our national life. At this very moment there are great schools under con¬ struction for the agricultural education of the peasants. On September next we shall be ready to inaugurate four of these large schools whose purpose it will be to train men into able agriculturists. These schools are not only practical, but they will offer all of the comforts and all of the facilities that universities offer. The Government’s work has for its purpose the greatest welfare possible for the masses; its aim is to make for the happiness of the greatest number of homes. Naturally this work does not meet with the approval of the privileged classes of the nation.

QUESTION : It is said in the United States that the program of the Mexican Government is patterned after the Russian Government.

CALLES: Mexico patterns nothing after anybody. The Mexican Govern¬ ment has its own problems and solves them according to its own necessities. It does not transplant here anything that is exotic.

DR. TAYLOR: Mr. President, if there is anything we can do for Mexico, we shall be only too glad to do so. Can you suggest how we can render your country some service?

CALLES: I thank you heartily for the good will that you express. There is, indeed, a way in which you can be of help and that is to tell the truth about what you have found here.

The Historic Background

of Mexico

The first item on the program of study by the Taylor group was an address on the historic background of present conditions in Mexico, by Carleton Beals, author of “Mexico — An Interpretation,” an American writer who has spent several years in Mexico. He spoke as follows:

When Cortez came to Mexico he found social organizations and govern¬ ments ranking with and, in certain things perhaps, surpassing those found in Mexico today. Four or five groups stand out more prominently than the rest. One of these, the Nahuas, extended through that part of Mexico along the mountains of the western coast. Before the coming of the Nahuas was an earlier race, the origin of which is not known, called the Toltecs. They migrat¬ ed from the North about 700 A. D. The earlier group was replaced by the Nahuas, of which the Aztecs were a tribe. The late comers adopted the civiliza¬ tion already there. A superior race was the Maya, occupying the territory about Yucatan and extending to Honduras and parts of Salvador. Each of these tribes left certain relics of their civilization, and certain definite con¬ tributions to the parts of the country which they occupied. The inhabitants of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec are today a distinct race, living largely apart from the rest of Mexico.

The capital of the Indian civilization was on the site of what is known today as Mexico City. It was founded in 1325. It developed from a settle¬ ment of lake dwellers into the modern City of Mexico, which does not repre¬ sent Mexico, but a hodgepodge of American, Spanish, and Indian peoples.

The colonial regime did not develop the Indian, but exploited him. Certain institutions were imposed upon the people by the conquering race. The priests were men of sterling qualities and came with high ideals, leaving lucrative positions to come to convert the natives, and they protested against the cruel exploitation by the conquerers. Gradually the religious conquest became more and more like that of Spain and the church worked less and less in behalf of the Indian, which finally resulted in a rigid caste system with Spain at the top. Next was the Creole, who was denied many of the privileges of the Spaniard, having few rights in the government. Next was the Mestizo, who belonged neither to one civilization nor to the other, without country or culture. Lastly came the Indian upon whom fell the full burden of the exploitation.

The movement for Mexican independence was not for freedom, but was a reactionary movement coming at a time when the old world was being attacked by Napoleon and the old order was passing. The Creoles wished to shut out the changes of the old world and to keep the new political system from taking root in America. Independence did not help the Indian. The reacticnary movement came at a time when he was not ready for independence. The Mexican government was established upon the basis of a Catholicism far more intolerant than that in Spain at the same time. With the coming of the idea of democracy came the development of a federal army whose overbearing and egotistical officers imposed their will upon a people who, having been submerged for three centuries, were easy prey to such efforts.

Juarez was a pure blooded Indian from Oaxaca. It was not until he was in his ’teens that he learned Spanish and how to read. Later he studied law, became governor of his state, a member of the governing body of Mexico, and finally president of his country. He spent much of his time in exile and much in unequal contests. He had, at one time, to sell peanuts on the streets of New Orleans. Juarez introduced a new epoch in Mexico. During the regime of Diaz, when the intervention of foreign capital began, much land and mineral and agricultural resources of the country were handed over to foreigners. As a result, there came the revolution of Madero in 1910.

The earlier program of Madero showed little grasp of the agrarian and economic problems of the country. In Mexico there was no philosophical back¬ ground for a revolution. It just happened. It was a pragmatic revelation, finally ending in the Queretero constitution of 1917, which was adopted to solve certain problems up to that time. The most notable ideas were antagon¬ ism to the church, a strong Indian influence, a reaction against existing in¬ dustrial conditions, and an attempt to reserve Mexico for Mexicans. The people clamored for means of popular expression heretofore denied them. It was an interruption of foreign intervention and the incoming of foreign capital. During the period of independence there was no real form of popular organization. The present period is the first since the Conquest in which the Mexican people have found a means of achieving popular organization. The attempt at popular organization is something new and untried in Mexican history. There is a tendency toward social organization of popular groups attempting to work out problems involved, rather than having them solved by selfish or egotistical and unfriendly ruling groups, who constantly quarrel among themselves.

The period of reconstruction following the revolution includes the adminis¬ trations of Caranza, Obregon, and Calles. There are very difficult problems to be solved and we should sympathize with the people in their effort to establish a plan of human liberty. We should not harass or suspect them. We are dealing with a problem, not merely of Mexico, but of all Latin America. We are face to face with a great racial bloc and a great racial culture. It is not the mere question of a moment; it is a much more serious business. , It is the question of a policy toward Latin America and the future peaceful relation¬ ships of the Western Hemisphere.

Questions and Answers

QUESTION: Was it Juarez, the peanut seller, who later returned and ousted Maximilian?

ANSWER: It was.

QUESTION: Will you evaluate the injustice done to those who came here to develop the country?

ANSWER: We must consider the future happiness of the people as well as the question of justice to those who have served. Some foreign capital suffered as a result of the 1910-1926 revolution, while some of the investors made a great deal at the time. The restitution of properties and the re¬ ordering of social organizations is somewhat the same principle of conservation as that followed in the United States. The earlier grants of Spain were based upon agricultural, pasturage, and mineral rights, and many old titles have been handed down from one to the other without being cleared up. The idea of sub-soil rights has long been in existence and was in dispute prior to 1917. Caranza insisted upon the filing of titles and was opposed by oil and mineral interests because of an agreement between them not to contest each other’s titles. Many disputes arose from this opposition. At one time, upon the in¬ vestigation of certain objections of the United States, it was found that Mex¬ ican oil companies were paying more taxes to the United States than to Mexico. The foreign property holding law limits the holding of foreign prop¬ erty along the boundaries and says they must relinquish right to appeal through diplomatic channels to their own government in case of disputes arising with Mexico. These things have lessened the inflow of foreign capital. Perhaps Mexico will be better off with a slower inflow of foreign capital. A too rapid introduction of foreign culture and capital may cause trouble as in Mexico and China today.